[08:14] <dpm> good morning all
[08:19] <dpm> hi henninge, are you around for a question on message sharing?
[08:32] <henninge> dpm: Hi! What's the question?
[08:35] <dpm> hey henninge, it's in relation to bug 788685 - we're talking about enabling the translation of selected universe packages in LP. So far we've discussed enabling them for package uploads, and I'm curious what the situation is for universe source packages if the upstream project is set and the link for message sharing with the Ubuntu source package is set too. In that case, is there any check in LP that stops translations being shared/enabled if the
[08:35] <dpm>  Ubuntu source package is from universe, or are all Ubuntu source packages treated the same for message sharing, regardless of which repository they come from?
[08:35] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 788685 in pkgbinarymangler (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Enable translating selected Ubuntu universe packages in Launchpad (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/788685
[08:37] <henninge> dpm: there is no check at all whatsoever of where the packages are from.
[08:37] <henninge> dpm: there is only the "include in languagepack" checkmark for templates.
[08:38] <dpm> henninge, cool, good to know, thanks. So it seems that for projects/packages which support automatic imports + message sharing we won't have to do anything special to get them imported. Excellent! :-)
[08:42] <dpm> oh, actually, yes, we'll have to do something: first modify the package's debian/rules so it builds a .pot file and the translations get exposed in Ubuntu. I guess here we'll still need the bug to be fixed, as the .pot template will need to be imported in the translation tarball through soyuz, which now discards the translation tarbals from universe
[11:37] <dpm> hi andrejz, I've just run the script to set the priorities according to your csv file, and they are now all set for both natty and oneiric, so good work :) - could you please mark your "Set up translation template priorities in Launchpad" action in the whiteboard from https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-o-sustainable-translations as DONE? Thanks
[11:37] <andrejz> dpm, just got the email
[11:37] <andrejz> you got me for a second there ;)
[11:37] <dpm> team work :)
[11:38] <andrejz> oh,just noticed. my nickname on launchpad is not andrejz, but andrej.znidarsic, just so that you know
[11:39] <andrejz> item marked as DONE, BTW
[11:51] <dpm> andrejz, great, thanks. I've updated your LP id, then
[11:54] <andrejz> when are translations for oneiric supposed to open, dpm?
[11:56] <dpm> andrejz, I was thinking around alpha-1 (next week or so), but I'd like to review the imports queue first.
[11:56] <andrejz> would you mind giving me the link again?
[11:58] <dpm> andrejz, I'll give you something better: I'll show you how to get to it, so you don't have to remember the link :)
[11:58] <dpm> So, you can go to https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/
[11:58] <andrejz> even better
[11:58] <dpm> and then choose Oneiric in the link, and then...
[11:59] <dpm> ... on the right pane, under Administration, you can choose the imports queue link
[11:59] <dpm> then in the filter,
[12:00] <dpm> choose "Needs Review" in the first one, and "Only pot files" in the second
[12:00] <dpm> then press the "Filter" button
[12:01] <andrejz> ok, got it. thanks
[12:01] <dpm> there is a trick, too:
[12:01] <dpm> you can add '&batch=300' (without the quotes) to the URL to see more entries in one single page
[12:02] <dpm> another couple of things about the imports queue:
[12:02] <dpm> there are some things that suck a bit -> every package upload generates an entry, so you can end up with several entries for the same template
[12:03] <dpm> in that case, the best thing to do is to just approve the oldest one and Launchpad will then take care of approving automatically the others
[12:04] <andrejz> OK. I noticed there are many of test3.old, test7.new by ubuntu archive autosync. What to do with those?
[12:08] <dpm> andrejz, ok, so since you've just started with it and I don't want it to be extremely boring for you, what I'd suggest would be for now to just go through the entries and see if there is anything obvious that you thing should need to be approved. Once you've done that, you can have a look at such entries as the ones you are mentioning and investigate whether they need to be approved or blocked (my guess would be that they should be blocked). As yo
[12:08] <dpm> u see, managing the imports queue is a bit of investigative work: looking at the source packages and templates and finding out whether they are worth getting approved and thus exposed to translators
[12:10] <dpm> and as usual, feel free to ask anything you're not sure or would like to know more about
[12:10] <andrejz> ok
[12:11] <andrejz> i guess i can freely block gimp-help since help files are not translated in launchpad?
[12:13] <andrejz> dpm, i have a problem
[12:13] <dpm> andrejz, exactly, and the same applies for man pages: you can also block them. I see you learn fast ;)
[12:13] <andrejz> i can only change status to Blocked, Deleted or Needs Information
[12:13] <andrejz> but not approved
[12:14] <andrejz> i would like to approve evolution 3-0.
[12:15] <dpm> andrejz, ah, sorry I should have explained that better. You can change the status to Approved, it's just that it needs setting some extra parameters and it's not available in that menu. Here's how you can approve templates:
[12:16] <dpm> Click on the pencil icon next to the "No import target selected yet." message below the entry. That will take you to a form
[12:17] <dpm> most of the settings will have been set for you, so generally it's just a matter of doing a sanity check and pressing the "Approve" button
[12:17] <dpm> You can try that on the evolution-3.0 template, but please, don't approve it yet,
[12:17] <dpm> I'd like to go through the settings with you before
[12:18] <andrejz> ok
[12:19] <andrejz> i am wondering if i should approved evolution-3.0 at all since it hasn't been determined whether evolution or thunderbird will be used as email clients
[12:20] <dpm> andrejz, regardless of the decision (I haven't been following up the discussion lately, but my hunch is that evo is here to stay), evolution will be in main, so we need to approve it
[12:20] <andrejz> ok
[12:21] <andrejz> i think value template should be changed to evolution
[12:22] <dpm> andrejz, yeah, that's what I was going to suggest, but we might need to change something else first. Before we do that, is the meaning of all fields in that form clear to you? Do you have any questions?
[12:23] <andrejz> translation domain applies to the name of .mo files, correct?
[12:23] <andrejz> and name is the name translators see in launchpad, correct?
[12:24] <dpm> andrejz, yeah, exactly. domain should also correspond in the vast majority of cases to the name of the pot file in the 'path' field
[12:25] <andrejz> ok, then everything is clear, i guess :)
[12:25] <dpm> yes, 'name' is the name of the template and what translators see in LP. We can change the name freely, but we have to be careful:
[12:26] <dpm> Launchpad determines whether translations are shared between templates distro releases based on the name. So if we change a name, we'll have to change it in all other releases to make sure message sharing is still working
[12:27] <dpm> So with Evo we've got an interesting situation:
[12:28] <dpm> we've got a template named 'evolution' (corresponding to Evolution 2.x) for all releases. In Oneiric we additionally have a template named 'evolution-3.0' (corresponding to Evolution 3.x) that we want to rename to 'evolution'. So here's what we can do:
[12:29] <dpm> 1. Disable the 'evolution' template in Oneiric (or rename it to 'evolution-2.0')
[12:30] <dpm> 2. Rename the 'evolution-3.0' template in Oneiric and approve it
[12:30] <dpm> So basically, before you press the "Approve" button, we need to take care of 1.
[12:31] <andrejz> but if we rename 'evolution' to 'evolution-2.0', messages won't be shared, right?
[12:32] <dpm> andrejz, correct, but then we'll rename 'evolution-3.0' to 'evolution' and the oneiric evolution messages will be shared again, but with the 3.x template
[12:32] <andrejz> if we do 1.
[12:33] <andrejz> we will have evolution-2.0 (old evolution) and evolution (new evolution)
[12:33] <andrejz> but massages won't be shared between them, correct?
[12:34] <andrejz> this would be a pity since strings are almost the same
[12:35] <dpm> andrejz, correct (nearly :). 1) Note that if we disable it, it won't be visible to translators, which is what we want -we don't want translators to see 2 templates- 2) Following 1. and 2. messages will indeed be shared -> the evo 3.0 template which we'll name 'evolution' will share strings with all previous distros (natty, maverick... etc)
[12:36] <andrejz> ok, so template name will be only change for 11.10 and not for previous distros?
[12:37] <dpm> andrejz, yes, exactly. The changes you do for a template you do them for a particular distro
[12:37] <andrejz> so it works for the distro you set and for the future distros, correct?
[12:37] <dpm> exactly
[12:38] <dpm> when we open a new distro, all templates are copied
[12:38] <dpm> so the changes you do in one distro before the copy happens
[12:38] <dpm> are always carried over
[12:38] <andrejz> ok cool
[12:38] <andrejz> i think i am getting it now
[12:39] <andrejz> so where can i change the name of old evolution? is it through the same interface?
[12:40] <dpm> that's why we had to set the priorities in both natty and oneiric. Since the copy had happened already, we had to write them on both. Had we set the priorities before Oneiric opened, then we wouldn't had needed to: the priorities from natty would have just been copied
[12:40] <dpm> so to change the name of the old evolution you can go to:
[12:40] <dpm> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+templates , and then
[12:41] <dpm> press the "Administer" link, which should take you to: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/evolution/+pots/evolution/+admin
[12:42] <dpm> there you can change the name to 'evolution-2.32' and then uncheck the two checkboxes:
[12:42] <andrejz> dpm, i would like to note that a number of templates still has priority 0
[12:42] <dpm> * Template is active
[12:42] <andrejz> has your script been applied yet?
[12:42] <dpm> * Include translations for this template in language packs?
[12:43] <dpm> just a sec, let me check. In the meantime, is that clear? ^^
[12:43] <andrejz> yes, i get it
[12:44] <andrejz> ok i renamed the template
[12:45] <dpm> andrejz, there are only 9 templates with 0 priority. My guess is that they are templates which were not in your CSV file, since the file was for natty templates only
[12:46] <andrejz> oh, ok.. than it's no problem. probably names have changed in between. i will need to set up priority once more again once everything gets in, so it's no problem
[12:46] <andrejz> so now i should go back to the import queue and accept evolution, but change the name to "evolution"
[12:47] <dpm> andrejz, yeah exactly. There is one additional step that is a bit of a pain: on the approval form there is no possibility to set the prioriy, so you'll have to go to the https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+templates page and set it afterwards (to the same value of the old evo template)
[12:48] <dpm> I filed a bug for that a while ago
[12:48] <andrejz> but first it needs to be imported
[12:48] <andrejz> so probably i need to wait for some time after I approve it, correct?
[12:49] <dpm> I think templates are created straight away on the DB, but I might be wrong. You can see if it's there already by refreshing the https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+templates page on your browser
[12:49] <andrejz> also probably i need to do the same with evolution-exchange, evolution-data-server, etc ..
[12:49] <dpm> yeah, I saw them too
[12:50] <andrejz> so under name i choose evolution,  but leave translation domain evolution-3.0, correct?
[12:50] <dpm> correct
[12:51] <dpm> there might be some more modules where we need to do that now that we're transitioning to gnome 3.0, but I think most of them are well behaved (unlike evo :) and don't include the version number in the domain, so we don't have to do anything
[12:51] <andrejz> what about the various test templates by ubuntu archive autosync? i think those can be safely blocked .
[12:53] <dpm> yeah, probably. One thing that helps sometimes is to click on the template link on each entry, and it will download and show you the POT file. That is often useful to have some indication on whether it is worth exposing those messages to translators
[12:54] <andrejz> ok, cool. i think i have all the basic info i need to start working now
[12:54] <andrejz> thanks for your patience while explaining it to me
[12:55] <dpm> also another note about blocking that is a bit of a pain: when you block an entry, any subsequent uploads won't appear on the queue, which is good, but only works on an uploader basis - if another person other than the one who did the upload you blocked does a new upload, it will appear again on the queue (and we'll need to block it again)
[12:55] <dpm> andrejz, nothing to thank for, thank you for helping on this! :-)
[12:56] <dpm> also, if I'm not around, there is some more reference info on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTranslationsCoordinators/Actions/LpTemplateAdministration, but some of it might need updating
[13:01] <andrejz> ok, i will gradualy administer import queue when i will need a break from translations ;)
[13:04] <dpm> awesome :)
[13:05] <serfus> for some reason, when i click on the little magnifier icon for more details on a string in transmission it directs me to a other string
[13:05] <dpm> serfus, could you give us the link of the translation where you've experienced this?
[13:05] <serfus> e.g, when i click on string 400, it directs me to string 430
[13:05] <serfus> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/transmission/+pots/transmission/he/+translate?field.alternative_language-empty-marker=1&show=untranslated&start=170
[13:08] <dpm> serfus, oh, wow, I can confirm that, it looks like a regression to me. Would you mind filing a bug about it at https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+filebug/ ?
[13:08] <serfus> dpm, will do
[13:08] <serfus> thanks
[13:08] <andrejz> dpm, why would template such as amarok be blocked ?
[13:10] <andrejz> i mean "need review"
[13:11] <dpm> thanks serfus
[13:15] <dpm> andrejz, generally, when a template has been approved once, it should get automatically approved in the future and only end up as "Needs Review" very briefly (all imports start as "Needs Review" before the auto-approver script has processed them). However, if they remain in "Needs Review" for long, it means that the auto-approved could not approve them because the upload settings differ from the settings in the current template. The most common ca
[13:15] <dpm> se is that the developers have change the path of the POT file in the package. That is either the name or the location of the pot file, and it's what's shown in the 'path' field in the import queue entry approval form
[13:15] <dpm> or it could also be that the source package changed
[13:15] <dpm> but that's not that common
[13:15] <dpm> so to find out what happened,
[13:15] <andrejz> oh yeah, i just noticed the package was uploaded 3 hours ago
[13:16] <dpm> oh, so it might be that it will be approved nevertheless and you don't need to do anything. Let me have a look...
[13:16] <andrejz> what is the normal import time?
[13:18] <andrejz> at how old templates should i look at ? more than a couple hours? more than a day, a week maybe?
[13:18] <dpm> andrejz, it's difficult to say, as it depends on the load of the servers. I think the auto-approver runs every 20 minutes or so, but it might take longer if it has to iterate through a big bunch of templates and po files. I generally leave the templates that are less than a day old
[13:19] <dpm> so I'd say, as a rule of thumb, a day
[13:19] <andrejz> ok cool
[13:21] <andrejz> i noticed this package - http://launchpadlibrarian.net/72511292/unity-doc.pot. it seems old since there is much more info on unity in other packages
[13:22] <andrejz> do you know where it's from, why it's for?
[13:27] <dpm> actually, I don't know much about it. I wanted to ask the unity guys about it last cycle, but I got side-tracked. After the first look at the template, I figured out it wasn't that useful to users. If we want to accept it, we need to make sure that the unity maintainers fetch the translations from Launchpad and put them in the package before release (it's a documentation file, so it cannot be shipped in language packs)
[13:37] <serfus> dpm, should I add the ubuntu translation project to the bug i reported?
[13:38] <dpm> serfus, good point, but I think it is not necessary in this case: I believe it's a Launchpad-only issue
[13:38] <serfus> okay
[13:38] <dpm> serfus, could you please subscribe me to the bug, or show me the link so I can subscribe myself?
[13:39] <serfus> subscribed you
[13:40] <serfus> anyways, what brought me to that bug was that odd developers note on string 400
[13:40] <serfus> "don't try to display the actual lines - it causes issues"
[13:41] <dpm> serfus, :) I think the developer just happened to write a comment not related to the translation, and gettext picked it up and put it in the template
[13:42] <serfus> ha reasonable
[16:12] <kelemengabor> hi
[16:13] <kelemengabor> what should I do with bug #759780 ? I'm trying to assign it to upstream software-center, but LP does not allow me to do so
[16:13] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 759780 in ubuntu-translations "spelling mistake in software-center (affects: 1) (heat: 5)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/759780
[16:13] <kelemengabor>           Project                     software-store           (Choose another project)                                                                           software-store           doesn't use Launchpad to track its bugs. If you know this bug           has been reported in another bug tracker, you can link to it;           Launchpad will keep track of its status for you.
[16:13] <kelemengabor> this is what I get on /+choose-affected-product when selecting software-center
[16:14] <kelemengabor> dpm? anyone? :)
[16:14] <dpm> hi kelemengabor, let me have a look
[16:14] <kelemengabor> and software-store links to https://launchpad.net/software-center - pure madness
[16:18] <dpm> I think the thing here is that IIRC the s-c guys don't use LP to track bugs on the upstream project and only track bugs in the distribution. As per lp/software-store redirecting to lp/software-center I believe it's because the project started as "store" and was changed to "center" due to concerns from the community. I think the link remains still from that time, to make sure any -store urls direct to -center. Anyway, let me have a look...
[16:18] <kelemengabor> oh, I see...
[16:19] <kelemengabor> https://bugs.launchpad.net/software-center says it is not set up
[16:19] <kelemengabor> I just didn't expected that this can happen :(
[16:21] <dpm> yeah, they don't use the upstream project for bugs, just the tracker for distro packages. I've added a bug task for the software-center package
[16:21] <kelemengabor> thanks, I learned something today :)
[16:21] <dpm> :)
[16:22] <kelemengabor> one more question about the sustainable translations blueprint
[16:22] <dpm> sure
[16:22] <kelemengabor> I see that I'm expected to organize a bug day
[16:23] <kelemengabor> I'm not sure about this... we don't have that many bugs anyway
[16:23] <kelemengabor> why would it make sense?
[16:24] <kelemengabor> I see that on bug days, people just triage bugs, bug we have about 40 untriaged bugs in all
[16:24] <kelemengabor> that's not that much
[16:26] <dpm> kelemengabor, yeah, I added a note on the blueprint, asking you if you'd be ok with it. First of all, if not, just let me know and I'll take care of it. As per whether it makes sense or not to organize one, I think it does: it's not only about triaging bugs or sending reminders to reactivate incomplete bugs, but it's also about giving visibility to the ubuntu-translations project to get more involvement from the bugsquad in helping out and to let
[16:26] <dpm> translators/users know it exists and that they should file bugs against it
[16:32] <kelemengabor> okay, then let it be... but I think we would need more help on actually fixing the triaged bugs :)
[16:34] <kelemengabor> when should it be? after alpha 2 or 3?
[16:34] <dpm> yeah well, a bug day it's also a "poke the developers to fix that annoying bug" day ;)
[16:35] <kelemengabor> I think it should be after the Oneiric translations are opened and the first langpacks are delivered
[16:35] <kelemengabor> but when is that?
[16:37] <dpm> kelemengabor, I think that'd be too early, as many strings might not be translated and then people start filing bugs about English strings showing up. Also, not so many people install the dev release until the last alphas. I'm thinking of opening translations next week after alpha-1. And for the bug day, I was thinking perhaps just after alpha-3, to make sure all the critical bugs are at least triaged before beta-1
[16:38] <kelemengabor> okay
[16:38] <kelemengabor> alpha-3 then
[16:38] <dpm> cool, thanks
[17:30] <serfus> what does one suppose to do when translated strings are showing untranslated?
[17:52] <dpm> serfus, you can try to search for the translations on the .mo files if you are familiar with this type of files, or if not, you can simply ask on the ubuntu-translators mailing list to see if they are also untranslated for other languages. If they appear untranslated for everyone (although being translated), then the best thing to do is to file a bug
[18:37] <serfus> thanks dpm
[19:01] <serfus> is there a reason for 'Development focus: maverick series' on the ubuntu translations LP page?
[19:26] <serfus> kelemengabor, has anyone dealt with Bug #760761
[19:26] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 760761 in transmission (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "»Minutes« and »seconds« as well as »pieces« not translateable (affects: 6) (dups: 4) (heat: 114)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/760761