[00:21] <_stink_> if you play your cards right, you *could* be mrs snap-l.
[00:45] <greg-g> back from OU
[01:02] <rick_h_> greg-g: how did it go?
[01:23] <greg-g> rick_h_: it was good, really. Lots of interest in open *
[01:23] <rick_h_> very cool
[12:03] <greg-g> g'morning
[12:12] <rick_h_> morning
[12:12] <rick_h_> TGIF!!!!!!!
[12:13] <greg-g> god yeah, I wish I didn't have to do Friday though
[12:57] <Wolfger> morning
[12:57] <rick_h_> ugh
[12:57] <Wolfger> party
[12:57] <brousch> gnome3 looks nice
[13:01] <Wolfger> I'm digging on irccloud.com today. Got my beta invite yesterday. Supposedly will keep a log of the channel contents even when I'm not online, so I can scrollback after I log in
[13:01] <Wolfger> It's also prettier than webchat
[13:01] <Wolfger> though that's something of a negative in the workplace
[13:03] <brousch> Wolfger: i tried that tues and weds
[13:03] <brousch> it was pretty nice
[13:03] <brousch> then i realized i don't really care what happens when i'm not on, and it's annoying to have separate clients for irc and IM
[13:06] <brousch> i use adium/pidgin
[13:15] <greg-g> man gosh, some people just need to not talk so much in the morning
[13:18] <brousch> eh?
[13:19] <greg-g> a student worker who talks way too much first thing in the morning
[13:20] <brousch> hopped up on quad espresso?
[13:21] <Wolfger> slurping quad espresso?
[13:22] <Wolfger> brousch: Pidgin for IRC? Ew.
[13:26] <snap-l> Good morning
[13:28] <snap-l> Yay, my coder wall has 0 achievements!
[13:28] <rick_h_> need more github
[13:28] <snap-l> Which means I haven't used github nearly as much as I probably should have.
[13:30] <Wolfger> LOL
[13:31] <Wolfger> when snap-l quit, I got a normal looking quit message.... when he came back, the line changed to a double-ended arrow that says "snap-l nipped out"
[13:32] <snap-l> Heh
[13:32] <Wolfger> Little bits of polish are awesome
[13:32] <brousch> the colors annoyed me
[13:33] <Wolfger> Here's one for the head-bangin' comic lovers: http://www.teefury.com/
[13:33] <snap-l> Oh geez.
[13:34] <Wolfger> brousch: The inability to change themes is annoying
[13:34] <Wolfger> hopefully they add that at some point
[13:35] <brousch> it's a particularly annoying blue
[14:07] <Wolfger> Hah. Just noticed that Irccloud doesn't support IE. "We only support Safari, Chrome (stable+beta), FF 4 for now"
[14:08] <brousch> IE is not a cloud-capable browser
[14:08] <Wolfger> ...
[14:09] <Wolfger> please tell me you just made that bit of marketspeak up
[14:10] <brousch> everyone knows this
[14:10] <brousch> you can quote me on that
[14:10] <snap-l> We like to think of IE as a "legacy" browser
[14:10] <greg-g> I believe the real term is "cloud-ready"
[14:11] <Wolfger> ugh
[14:11] <greg-g> or at least, that is what my cloud consultant told me
[14:11] <greg-g> he's so smart
[14:11] <Wolfger> "cloud-ready" means "I have a NIC"
[14:11] <greg-g> that's not what Bob said
[14:11] <snap-l> Cloud Ready?
[14:11] <greg-g> yeah! snap-l gets it!
[14:12] <snap-l> That reminds me of the "Digital Ready" nomeclature they put on headphones when CDs were first released.
[14:12] <greg-g> we all have to be cloud ready if we are to compete in the today
[14:12]  * rick_h_ checks if I'm ready for more clouds...been a lot of them dropping water on me lately
[14:12] <snap-l> Yeah, no kidding
[14:13] <snap-l> someone fired up the lawnmower this morning, and I thought "Seriously? It's a swamp in my backyard"
[14:13] <snap-l> But it's a landscaper, so they get a pass.
[14:13] <Wolfger> The lawn service was mowing the hotel grounds yesterday, in the rain
[14:14] <snap-l> I've been there, mowing lawns after heavy rain. All you get are these clumps of wet grass that just lay there under the mower like dead gophers
[14:30] <snap-l> Wow, Miro 4 wants to be iTunes when it grows up
[14:32] <Wolfger> heh
[14:32] <rick_h_> "Wow, this new Miro thing wants to be iTunes when it grows up"
[14:32] <rick_h_> ... years go on
[14:44] <snap-l> heh
[15:28] <greg-g> jrwren: mmmm, 4 TB of disk
[15:32] <jrwren> oh yea.
[15:32] <jrwren> i can't wait.
[15:33] <jrwren> i'm gonna pvcreate vgextend lvcreate
[15:33] <jrwren> is there a good reason create a partition and pvcreate that v. just pvcreate the disk ?
[15:34] <greg-g> you're talking words I don't use
[15:35] <snap-l> Something in my gut says it's better to partition, but I don't know why.
[15:36] <jrwren> i'm considering writing a PEP292 implmenetation in C#. someone talk me out of it or point me to similar or existing please?  its string subst where "hi $name, how are you" would become "hi bob, how are you" assuming there is a dictionary with correct kvp
[15:36] <jrwren> snap-l: me too, but I can't justify it.
[15:41] <jrwren>  blockdev --rereadpt /dev/diskname #i never knew
[15:59]  * rick_h_ starts the grumbling...if you defined tables with fk they you better create them in order so the damn fk exists...and if you have a fk, the col type better match the parent column...and why sqlite let this dev get away with this crap that now breaks on mysql...
[16:02]  * rick_h_ keeps grumbling when there are fk fields you enforce guess what, they need to reference a column with some constraints on it...
[16:04] <brousch> snap-l: have you seen this? http://networkedblogs.com/im7C0
[16:13] <rick_h_> cool
[16:13] <rick_h_> gotta love a company that can afford to drop apps for $5 to help boost those hardware sales
[16:13] <brousch> yeah
[16:13] <jrwren> and THAT is why you don't use sqlite
[16:14] <rick_h_> jrwren: well it's handy for unit testing which is what I'm trying to fix
[16:15] <jrwren> truth.
[16:15] <jrwren> can someone with more PEP exp than me, help?
[16:15] <rick_h_> with?
[16:15] <jrwren> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0292/ has reference to a reference impl at the bottom of the page. [5]
[16:15] <jrwren> but the link doesn't work.
[16:15] <jrwren> where might I find a ref impl?
[16:16] <rick_h_> I'll ping barry on twitter and see if he's still got it
[16:17] <jrwren> it is in 2.7.1 and i assume newer py.
[16:17] <jrwren> i'll look for the py source
[16:17] <rick_h_> I don't think it's there is it?
[16:17] <rick_h_> the stuff in 2.7 is different
[16:19] <jrwren> err.. 2.5.2 i mean.  http://docs.python.org/release/2.5.2/lib/node40.html is what i want
[16:19] <rick_h_> http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#string-formatting-operations
[16:19] <jrwren> did they remove Template?
[16:19] <rick_h_> ah, it's a diff module
[16:20] <rick_h_> nope, looks like it's still there
[16:20] <rick_h_> just never heard/seen it
[16:20] <rick_h_> thought you meant the new formating for string.format()
[16:20] <jrwren> i'll browse  http://hg.python.org/cpython/ and find it.
[16:20] <jrwren> thanks.
[16:21] <rick_h_> which replaces the %() stuff
[16:21] <snap-l> brousch: That's interesting. :)
[16:22] <snap-l> So, how soon before we see someone on stage rocking the iPad like they rock the keytar. ;)
[16:23] <snap-l> rick_h_: sqlite is a great prototyping database, but it completely falls down when you do anything other than using it for simple key / value stores
[16:23] <rick_h_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcQE_PULbOQ&feature=related
[16:23] <snap-l> Introduce foreign keys, and you can watch the cracks form in the foundations. ;)
[16:24] <rick_h_> there's your on stage ipad band
[16:24] <rick_h_> RESTRICT and CASCADE are permitted to make porting easier. In MySQL 5.0, they do nothing.
[16:24] <rick_h_> @#$Y*(Y#@*($Y#*@(Y$(@#Y$(
[16:25] <_stink_> looks like nethack
[16:25] <_stink_> lots of bows and Yetis and gold
[16:25] <snap-l> rick_h_: And then you become these guys. :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQShIPWPg_Y
[16:25] <ColonelPanic001> THE YETIS ARE ATTACJING
[16:26] <ColonelPanic001> There's some humans in there, too
[16:26] <_stink_> nurses
[16:26] <_stink_> take off your armor
[16:26] <rick_h_> http://functionsource.com/post/78848-bytes-when-your-browser-update-is-a-small-percentage-of-your-home-page-icon those crazy google folks
[16:27] <snap-l> rick_h_: I liked MySQL before really using it too. ;)
[16:30] <snap-l> Also, for whatever reason I'm not seeing UH: CHC in June from the iCal feed
[16:30] <rick_h_> I might not have gone that far out
[16:30] <rick_h_> I only did a couple of months I think to start
[16:31] <snap-l> I copied them over, and they're in the iCal file
[16:31] <snap-l> But Evolution / Google Calendar aren't displaying them
[16:32] <snap-l> Also, I swear they're not doing something right with the time zones in the iCal file.
[16:35] <jrwren> ok... i dont umnderstand python metaclasses
[16:35] <jrwren> is the eckel tutorialg good?
[16:36] <rick_h_> not sure, I've not read that one
[16:36] <rick_h_> I grabbed some out of a couple of books
[16:36] <jrwren> voidspace has an article.
[16:36] <rick_h_> he's pretty good, would check that out
[16:36] <snap-l> I'm not sure Bruce Eckel really groks Python
[16:37] <rick_h_> http://svn.python.org/view/sandbox/trunk/string/ jrwren is what barry linked me to
[16:37] <rick_h_> is that what you're checking out?
[16:37] <snap-l> His Java books were OK, but the C++ books weren't nearly as good.
[16:38] <snap-l> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles/metaclasses.shtml ?
[16:38] <jrwren> rick_h_: i'm actually just looking at string.py that shipped with python 2.7
[16:38] <jrwren> on my local disk
[16:39] <jrwren> its there. so i see the code i want to port to C#
[16:39] <rick_h_> jrwren: ok, well this might be a bit simpler/closer to reference
[16:39] <rick_h_> ok cool
[16:39] <jrwren> but my pyfu is too weak
[16:39] <jrwren> snap-l: yes, that article
[16:40] <jrwren> snap-l: i was thinking of eckel's write up on decorators. those were really good
[16:40] <rick_h_> well decorators are an order of mag. easier than metaclasses imo
[16:40] <rick_h_> but I've only done metaclasses in a real project twice I think
[16:44] <jrwren> agreed.
[16:45] <jrwren> tahnks for that svn link.
[16:45] <jrwren> it inherits from unicode, which I'll have to go investigate now :)
[16:45] <jrwren> oh...
[16:45] <jrwren> no i don't.
[16:45] <jrwren> __mod__ is the method for the % operator.
[16:45]  * jrwren is slow
[16:46] <rick_h_> yea, magic methods, gotta love em
[18:18] <jrwren> rick_h_: what does the %(delim)s do at the beginning of the template pattern regex
[18:18] <jrwren> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/329/
[18:18] <jrwren> or anyone who knows regex or python intricacies of regex
[18:20] <rick_h_> jrwren: that's string formatting for changing the delim for / vs ' vs ` etc
[18:20] <jrwren> nevermind... i see it.
[18:20] <jrwren> right.
[18:20] <rick_h_> it looks like at least, it's supplied from _re.escape(cls.delimeter) in line 16/17
[18:20] <jrwren> i'm seeing it now.
[18:20] <jrwren> didn't get that before.
[18:20] <rick_h_> k
[18:21] <jrwren> still not really sure hwo they are doing that, cuz pattern is a instance of re, not a string.
[18:21] <jrwren> but I'll assume re has a __mod__ overload on it or something
[18:21] <rick_h_> no, that's just python string formatting
[18:22] <rick_h_> "%s %s" % ('rick', 'harding') == "rick harding"
[18:23] <jrwren> yeah.
[18:23] <jrwren> holy crap my python is rusty.
[18:23] <jrwren> i see it now.
[18:23] <jrwren> thanks.
[19:21] <snap-l> Pretty convinced that the only reason people still use Java is because of all of the code generation tools
[19:21] <snap-l> ie: wsimport and xjc for SOAP and REST, respectively
[19:22] <snap-l> and, of course, inertia
[19:23] <greg-g> lol @ these setup instructions: https://github.com/quartzjer/Locker/wiki/Ubuntu-10.04-%26-10.10-Install
[19:24] <snap-l> yay, my Ubuntu Forums user is disabled, as I requested.
[19:24] <snap-l> since they weren't going to change the username.
[19:25] <snap-l> So, no guilt whatsoever for not using the forums AT ALL.
[19:30] <snap-l> Any of you windows users know of a good sftp client that isn't Putty?
[19:33] <krondor> snap-l: filezilla
[19:34] <snap-l> I just threw up in my mouth a bit
[19:35] <krondor> are you looking for gui-less sftp?  I'm not sure what's better then filezilla in windows for that ...
[19:35] <krondor> maybe winscp I haven't used that in awhile
[19:35] <rick_h_> I used to use smartftp
[19:35] <rick_h_> but that was a long time ago now
[19:35] <snap-l> No, I mean I've used filezilla, and I'd rather have radioactive rabid rabiits nibble on my toes than use Filezilla.
[19:37] <Blazeix> doesn't windows explorer natively support ftp?
[19:37] <snap-l> sftp
[19:37] <Blazeix> sftp, too I think
[19:37] <snap-l> using keys?
[19:37] <Blazeix> oh, no
[19:38] <snap-l> Yeah, I think I'll keep moving files to the putty directory and rename file with spaces.zip to shit.sip
[19:38] <snap-l> fucking putty scp doesn't handle anything with spaces.
[19:38] <snap-l> nor does it handle wildcards.
[19:38] <snap-l> if it handled those two, I wouldn't be nearly as bitchy.
[19:38] <rick_h_> files aren't supposed to have spaces
[19:39] <rick_h_> it's a bug in the "new file" diaglog box
[19:39] <snap-l> Well, at least Linux can escape spaces
[19:39] <snap-l> Windows does some stupid-ass overloading bullshit to make it work
[19:39] <krondor> filezilla can handle spaces :P
[19:39] <snap-l> krondor: I can't handle Filezilla
[19:40] <krondor> cygwin + sftp
[19:40] <krondor> it gets uglier the farther yo ugo
[19:41] <jrwren> snap-l: openssh's sftp?
[19:41] <jrwren> winscp is great.
[19:41] <snap-l> jrwren: Tell me more.
[19:42] <jrwren> Blazeix: windows explorer does NOT support ssh or scp or sftp
[19:42] <jrwren> also, sftp != ftps
[19:42] <snap-l> OpenSSH for Windows is a free package that installs a minimal OpenSSH server and client utilities in the Cygwin package without needing the full Cygwin installation
[19:42] <jrwren> snap-l: putty scp handles spaces just fine, you just have to shell escape or quote them properly.
[19:42] <snap-l> Oh, now I'm intrigued.
[19:43] <jrwren> you don't have cygwin installed?
[19:43] <jrwren> windows is worthless without cygwin
[19:43] <snap-l> jrwren: s/without cygwin//g
[19:43] <snap-l> FTFY.
[19:44] <jrwren> yeah, i love how i get great bat life and all my ahrdware works adn my uptime lasts for weeks.
[19:44] <rick_h_> and nothing there about doing anything better
[19:45] <jrwren> better than waht? I'm just saying its not worthless. its worth something to me.
[19:46] <jrwren> I finally ported that python. so far so good. I'm happy
[19:46] <jrwren> thanks for your help rick_h_
[19:46] <rick_h_> very cool
[19:46] <snap-l> jrwren: Thanks for the pointer to the openssh stuff. I'll check that out.
[19:47] <jrwren> snap-l: yw. if you use putty, there is also charade which will impersonate openssh agent and pass through to pagent
[19:48] <snap-l> Yeah, I managed to get pagent working pretty well
[19:48] <jrwren> you'll want charade tehn.
[19:48] <snap-l> Only gripe is putty's terminal emulation is a little lacking with special characters.
[19:49] <snap-l> like mutt's threading
[19:49] <jrwren> otherwise openssh asks you for password and you ahve to run separate agent. its b.s.
[19:49] <jrwren> reallY? I don't use mutt, so I don't know.
[19:49] <jrwren> but i get utf8 in irssi in screen in putty.
[19:49] <jrwren> i've enabled IME in windows and typed japanese into irssi in screen in putty
[19:50] <jrwren> did you set your charset under Window->Translation ?
[19:53] <snap-l> I just did
[19:57] <krondor> snap-l:  if you need x windows forwarding; xming works well for me (if this is new to putty/windows type talk).  http://www.straightrunning.com/XmingNotes/
[19:58] <snap-l> Yeah, I'm not sure I need the X forwarding, but that's nice to know.
[19:59] <snap-l> Might just install freaking VirtualBox on this machine and be done with it. :)
[20:04] <snap-l> OK, I've been way too hard on Putty.
[20:04] <snap-l> There's actually some nice customiziations that I haven't checked out.
[20:04]  * snap-l is eating his words.
[20:09] <jrwren> HURRAY!
[20:09] <jrwren> its just a damned shame that they aren't default.
[20:11] <Blazeix> crap, I'm a noob. I had no idea that sftp and ftps weren't the same thing.
[20:11] <Blazeix> one's ssh-based, the other ssl?
[20:17] <snap-l> jrwren: No doubt.
[20:18] <snap-l> The defaults are anything but sane.
[20:21] <krondor> Blazeix: yes sftp is ssh and ftps is ftp w/ ssl.  If you want to get more confusing there's also ftp over ssh (tunnel)
[20:21] <krondor> the defaults are maybe lowest common denominator for 1991?
[20:28] <greg-g> does krondor == matt s. ?
[20:29] <snap-l> No, Ryan Kather
[20:31] <greg-g> ahh, huh
[20:31] <greg-g> I guess I saw him at OU yesterday
[20:31] <greg-g> (he pm'd me, but I didn't see it until he logged off)
[20:33] <snap-l> Ah, good times.
[21:22] <snap-l> https://identi.ca/notice/74728004
[21:30] <brousch> damnit, i keep missing little things in javascript, like ; at the end of statements, and it has no default paramters on functions?
[21:31] <snap-l> Grrr, sometimes I really don't like feedburner
[21:31] <snap-l> esp when you release a new episode of a show, and it doesn't pick up right away.
[21:43] <jrwren> ; is optional at end of statement in javascript
[22:27] <rick_h_> jrwren: no! not optional
[22:27] <rick_h_> brousch_: get jslint, hook it into gvim
[22:27] <rick_h_> run run run
[22:27] <rick_h_> http://technotales.wordpress.com/2011/05/21/node-jslint-and-vim/