[00:00] <andres_kain> good night! a quicky: I heard that people don't ever minimize and every new aplication will open in a new workspace how
[00:08] <andres_kain> I'll look into it some other day... but forums talk about devil's pie... but unity probably already can do this... something like
[00:08] <andres_kain> gotta go!
[01:15] <n1md4> Are there any gnome3 fans here?
[01:23] <culinor> I like gnome in general
[01:28] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Problems Open Doors To Solutions - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/05/28/problems-open-doors-to-solutions/
[02:08] <ali1234> stupid open office won't let me write GPs
[02:08] <ali1234> it always changes it to Gps
[02:11] <ali1234> even adding it to the dictionary doesn't help
[02:11] <ali1234> this sucks
[02:20] <hamitron> hmmm
[06:53] <MartijnVdS> maybe you mean GPS
[06:53] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: does it autocorrect when you type the space?
[06:53] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: those are in a separate configuration bit
[06:54] <ali1234> yeah i found it eventually
[06:54] <ali1234> i meant GPs as in general practitioners
[06:54] <MartijnVdS> also.. don't you need sleep? :)
[06:55] <ali1234> always
[08:17] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:31] <MartijnVdS> morning
[09:15] <czajkowski> hmm
[09:16] <dutchie> argh, dpkg has got stuck again
[09:16] <czajkowski> morning to you too dutchie
[09:17] <dutchie> http://paste.ubuntu.com/614082/
[09:17] <dutchie> morning czajkowski
[09:17] <dutchie> this happens annoyingly often
[09:21] <ging> clearly dpkg is like an action movie baddy
[09:21] <ging> won't die that easily
[10:03] <n1md4> morning.  what's the name of the default image viewer in ubuntu ... the one that allows you to order all your photos.
[10:05] <MartijnVdS> shotwell? or eye of gnome?
[10:06] <MartijnVdS> it used to be f-spot in older versions
[10:09] <n1md4> MartijnVdS: It was shotwell I was thinking of, thanks :)
[10:10] <n1md4> Not really an image viewer, more picture organizer.
[10:13] <czajkowski> I think I want to curl up and die with the pain today so not in the moood
[10:53] <ikonia> any uk chaps with sky tv awake
[10:55] <MartijnVdS> !ask
[10:55] <ikonia> I'm asking if ther are any UK people with Sky TV awaky
[10:55] <ikonia> awake
[10:55] <MartijnVdS> Sure, but you want to ask those people something
[10:55] <MartijnVdS> (I guess)
[10:55] <ikonia> yes, but it's pointless asking unless there is a uk user with Sky TV awake
[10:56] <MartijnVdS> If someone with Sky TV wakes up in 5 minutes, they'll read your question and answer it
[10:56] <ikonia> then it will be pointless,
[10:56] <MartijnVdS> Why? What's the question? :)
[10:56] <ikonia> I need someone to test something
[11:05] <Laney> this one is better
[11:05] <Laney> !anyone
[11:20] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[11:30] <shauno> got a funny feeling I'm gonna be kinda rude to o2 when I go to insert .. err .. return this modem on monday :/
[12:21] <livingdaylight> can the unity bar be moved to the bottom, or is it stuck to the left side?
[12:24] <ali1234> it's stuck to the left hand side
[12:38] <Oli``> Anybody know if there's a way of keying in the dimensions (width/height/etc) of an existing shape in photoshop. I need to very precisely resize something.
[14:20] <jacobw> afternoon hamitron
[14:21] <hamitron> hi jaco
[14:21] <hamitron> hows things?
[14:24] <jacobw> good, at a lose end.. yourself?
[14:29] <hamitron> ok here ty
[14:30] <hamitron> just a bit lost in what direction to go in, with my computer systems
[14:30] <hamitron> :)
[14:40] <jacobw> its a bank holiday. and i can't think of ANYTHING to do :|
[14:44] <Laney> fix some bugs
[14:49]  * jacobw checks harvest
[14:51] <hamitron> I think I may move some of my older machines to linuxfromscratch
[14:51] <jacobw> why?
[14:52] <hamitron> can't think of what else to use
[14:52] <hamitron> :/
[14:52] <hamitron> lets me choose what I want
[14:52] <hamitron> as everything else is just not what I want
[14:54] <hamitron> other option is a ubuntu base, then some custom packages to replace ones I don't like, but give them high version numbers
[14:55] <hamitron> but that could get messy
[14:55] <hamitron> not even sure it would be that easy to work
[15:03] <jacobw> debian + apt-pinning ?
[15:08] <hamitron> debian lenny works fine tbh
[15:09] <hamitron> but I'm wanting something that is easier to tweak myself, after support is gone
[15:09] <jacobw> lenny is oldstable
[15:09] <hamitron> that, or something with a longer life
[15:10] <hamitron> yeh, it won't be supported much longer?
[15:10] <jacobw> ha, debian stable isn't supported long enough for you?!
[15:10] <jacobw> to be fair, i don't know how long its supported for.
[15:11] <hamitron> I read it will end about a year after 6.0 was released
[15:11] <hamitron> and 6.0 has the same problems as ubuntu
[15:11] <hamitron> so no real gains
[15:12] <jacobw> what problem are these?
[15:12] <hamitron> there is a version of Puppy Linux 5.0 that is nearer the mark, but puppy really isn't what I need
[15:12] <hamitron> I need/want an old version of X.org
[15:12] <jacobw> centos/scientific linux perhaps?
[15:13] <hamitron> centos is compiled for i686
[15:13] <hamitron> hehe
[15:13] <hamitron> not sure about scientific
[15:13] <hamitron> will check it out
[15:13] <jacobw> i386
[15:15]  * jacobw goes to sit in the park
[15:15] <hamitron> the centos images say i386
[15:15] <hamitron> but they lie
[15:15] <hamitron> I downloaded the whole thing, labelled i386 and then found that out
[15:15] <hamitron> ;)
[15:16] <hamitron> Centos 4.x is the last version to work on i586
[15:16] <jacobw> i wonder whether redhat themselves support i386
[15:16] <hamitron> no
[15:16] <hamitron> that is why centos doesn't
[15:16] <hamitron> :/
[15:16] <jacobw> 4.x is really old
[15:16] <hamitron> yeh
[15:16] <hamitron> support ends very soon
[15:16] <hamitron> I was wanting centos 5.x
[15:16] <hamitron> it comes with Xorg 7.2
[15:20] <penguin42> hamitron: You could build X from source
[15:20] <jacobw> it sounds like debian lenny is the best option before LFS
[15:21] <hamitron> penguin42: I think it is either that, with ubuntu 10.04, or lfs
[15:21] <Laney> why would you want something old to tinker with?
[15:21] <Laney> that sounds bizarre
[15:21] <penguin42> hamitron: Gentoo?
[15:21] <hamitron> I'd want something that works wtih my hardware
[15:21] <hamitron> gentoo is too new
[15:22] <hamitron> at least, from what I could figure out
[15:22] <penguin42> what feature of old X does it need?
[15:22] <MartijnVdS> a config file!
[15:22] <hamitron> xserver 1.4.1 or lower
[15:22] <hamitron> and a config file is helpful
[15:22] <hamitron> :)
[15:23] <hamitron> I can make the config file on another system if needs must
[15:23] <penguin42> hamitron: What hardware needs that though?
[15:23] <hamitron> the nvidia 71 driver
[15:24] <hamitron> so geforce 2 and earlier
[15:24] <dreamcoder> ok so bene using ubuntu for years tried arch other week i do like it, but now i have fedora on my laptop and dont know what i want to keep on it
[15:24] <dreamcoder> grrr
[15:25] <hamitron> I can run with the open source drivers, but pointless running newer software just to lose features
[15:25] <dreamcoder> dont know wether to go back to windows 7 for battery life
[15:25] <hamitron> dreamcoder: it is healthy to use lots! ;)
[15:26] <dreamcoder> i hate distro hopping though lol
[15:26] <jacobw> stick with ubuntu/debian
[15:26] <dreamcoder> i am starting my degree in oct so I thought windows would be better for that with office, but libre office seems pretty stable
[15:26] <jacobw> if ubuntu doesn't do what you want, you be that debian will.
[15:27] <dreamcoder> what is battery life like in the new ubuntu?
[15:27] <jacobw> what is you're degree in/
[15:27] <dreamcoder> Computing & I.T
[15:27] <jacobw> ya, stick with ubuntu/debian ;)
[15:27] <jacobw> dreamcoder, are you by any chance doing it with the open university/
[15:28] <dreamcoder> ya
[15:28] <penguin42> hamitron: Well you could try adding stuff to the open driver?
[15:28] <hamitron> it is beyond me
[15:28] <hamitron> ;/
[15:28] <dreamcoder> yeah I am thought would give me something extra on my c.v
[15:28]  * jacobw started Computing & IT with the OU in February
[15:28] <dreamcoder> oh right
[15:28] <hamitron> all I want is 3d
[15:28] <dreamcoder> how are you finding it?
[15:29] <jacobw> 3 parts boring 1 part easy..
[15:29] <hamitron> penguin42: you think an old version of Xorg would be easy to integrate?
[15:29] <dreamcoder> reallly
[15:29] <jacobw> but then the introductory modules were always going to be boring
[15:29] <dreamcoder> yeah i imagine digital life will be boring
[15:30] <penguin42> hamitron: There will be loads of things that have dependencies on newer versions but I bet most of them work (except GL drivers) care
[15:30] <dreamcoder> and I have chosen microsoft server tech for othe rmodule
[15:30] <dreamcoder> other*
[15:30] <jacobw> yeah, i'm doing the last presentations of M150/T175
[15:30] <jacobw> why?
[15:30] <jacobw> microsoft server tech is really boring :|
[15:30] <dreamcoder> I know but I really cantb bothered with maths
[15:30] <dreamcoder> lol
[15:30] <dreamcoder> did that at college thought server may be a bit more interesting
[15:31] <hamitron> penguin42: dunno if to make custom package versions to replace what is there, or to not install xorg, then compile into /usr/local or something
[15:31] <jacobw> i'm considering doing maths as a second subject with the computing & it or just plain switching to maths.
[15:31] <penguin42> hamitron: Yeh well a compilation into /somewhere/safe shouldn't break stuff
[15:31] <hamitron> ideally, I'd want the package manager to still work
[15:32] <hamitron> and to be able to install GUI apps from apt-get
[15:32] <hamitron> but run it all on Xorg 7.3
[15:32] <dreamcoder> so does ubuntu do what you need it too for the course?
[15:35] <jacobw> yeah, all i need to do is the open the PDF format assignments, write the assignment libre office, save it as a microsoft word 2003 document (i'm not sure that's even necessary now with word 2007/2010 supporting ODF) and submit it through their web interface.
[15:35] <jacobw> i use tomboy notes to collect my thoughts on the assignment and dump my responses to a text file with vim..
[15:36] <dreamcoder> yeah have you tried submitting as odf? would it be allowed
[15:36] <jacobw> as long as they can open it they don't care.
[15:36] <dreamcoder> oh right
[15:37] <jacobw> some tutors are more technically able then others
[15:37] <hamitron> penguin42: you've talked me around
[15:37] <hamitron> as I really want to stick with ubuntu if I can
[15:37] <hamitron> :)
[15:37] <dreamcoder> so any linux distro would be fine the course then
[15:37] <jacobw> yeah
[15:38] <dreamcoder> I dont like the new unity rubbish, but i do like gnome 3 so I dont think ubuntu is the way unless I want to revert back to gnome 2 or install gnome 3 on ubuntu which I have heard can break a system
[15:38] <dreamcoder> arch is nice though and fast, fedora takes an age to boot
[15:38] <jacobw> fedora 15?
[15:38] <dreamcoder> yeah
[15:39] <dreamcoder> thats what i am using atm
[15:39] <dreamcoder> installed it yesterday
[15:39] <jacobw> so much for their fast booting system :)
[15:40] <dreamcoder> I know.. suppose to be alot faster with the new symlinkv? is it cant remember, arch is quick booing so is ubuntu but fedora is quite slow in comparison
[15:40] <dreamcoder> fedora is quick once booted tho!
[15:40] <dreamcoder> finding yum very slow compared to pacman too
[15:40] <jacobw> yum is painful
[15:41] <dreamcoder> another thing when I had ubuntu on my laptop prevously my battery was dead in a month or so ubuntu killed it lol well the kernel did so i am unsure as i have just ordered a new bttery and dont ant that to die
[15:42] <dreamcoder> want*
[15:42] <dreamcoder> thats the only thing tempting me to windows 7
[15:42] <jacobw> you don't know that ubuntu killed the battery ;)
[15:43] <dreamcoder> it is a bug in the kernel apparently there is a similar bug currently
[15:43] <hamitron> dreamcoder: you could use ubuntu lts
[15:43] <hamitron> gnome 2 goodness
[15:43] <hamitron> :)
[15:43] <hamitron> for another 22 months
[15:43] <dreamcoder> yeah! i am usisng 11.04 with classic desktop on my main pc atm
[15:44] <dreamcoder> think ubuntu chosethe wrong route with unity tbh
[15:44] <hamitron> I'm keeping an open mind
[15:44]  * jacobw prefers unity to gnome shell
[15:44] <dreamcoder> really
[15:44] <dreamcoder> I tried both, but gnome 3 is preferable to me
[15:44] <jacobw> unity gives applications more space
[15:45] <acperkins> I love GNOME Shell but everything was so chunky on my netbook
[15:45] <jacobw> exactly
[15:45] <jacobw> they've gone feature hiding again
[15:45] <dreamcoder> gnome 3 is perfect on my laptop its 16" screen
[15:46] <dreamcoder> i dont like the big title bars tho that is a waste of space
[15:46]  * hamitron likes LXDE
[15:46] <hamitron> ;)
[15:46] <jacobw> people don't care about graphical environments, people care about applications
[15:47] <acperkins> I also had some issues in Fedora 15 where programs would refuse to maximise
[15:47] <jacobw> so in my view the more the graphic environment stays out of the way of the applications the better
[15:47] <dreamcoder> i have'nt tried lxde
[15:47] <acperkins> but I don't know if that was a Fedora or a GNOME3 issue
[15:47] <dreamcoder> i am currrently using fedora 15 and have no problems with maximsing etc
[15:48] <dreamcoder> good point jacobw
[15:49] <dreamcoder> need to find a replacment dvd drive for my 6920g
[15:49] <jacobw> 6920g?
[15:49] <hamitron> lxde is very light, and is functional enough for me.... kinda like windows 95
[15:50] <jacobw> about battery life, newer kernels (including the version in 11.04 IIRC) have improved power management
[15:51] <dreamcoder> yeah acer, it has a bluray drive that hasnt worked since i have had the laptop lol
[15:51] <dreamcoder> so looking for a normal dvdrw for it
[15:58] <jacobw> i'd recommend ubuntu over fedora
[15:59] <jacobw> for these reasons..
[16:01] <jacobw> apt/dpkg, launchpad/PPAs, better support for proprietary audio/video formats, longer life cycles and LTS releases.. and last but not least; the community :)
[16:02] <jacobw> argh :|
[16:02]  * jacobw really is going to the park now.
[16:05] <kvarley> is there a prebuilt version of gtkmm3.0 available for Ubuntu?
[16:06] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: maybe in the gnome3 ppa?
[16:06] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: Yes, thank you :) was looking for a gtkmm ppa, doh. It's on the gnome3 ppa tho :)
[16:07] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[16:11] <oimon> hamitron: just caught up on what u were saying about an hour ago
[16:12] <oimon> scientific linux might be up your street..i use it at work all the time.
[16:12] <oimon> they do 64 bit too
[16:13] <oimon> it's really nice for rolling out systems with kickstart
[16:13] <oimon> plus it is supported for another million years
[16:14] <hamitron> oimon: does it use the same compile options as redhat and centos?
[16:15] <oimon> hmm i dunno - i think SL is closer to RH than centos is
[16:15] <oimon> but u can easily rebuild srpms
[16:15] <oimon> what's the issue with compile options?
[16:15] <hamitron> both RH and CentOS are i686
[16:15] <hamitron> :/
[16:16] <oimon> u want optimisation for a partilclar processor?
[16:16] <hamitron> i586
[16:16] <hamitron> tbh
[16:16] <hamitron> i386 or anything that runs
[16:16] <hamitron> ;)
[16:16] <hamitron> to get CentOS working, I was going to have to recompile the kernel and some of the libs
[16:17] <hamitron> I should maybe customise Wary Puppy
[16:17] <oimon> which processor are you trying to run on?
[16:17] <hamitron> i586
[16:17] <oimon> what's the actual processor?
[16:18] <hamitron> they range from pentium 1 to Core i3
[16:18] <hamitron> erm
[16:18] <hamitron> intel, amd and via cpu
[16:18] <hamitron> but most don't do i686 instructions
[16:19] <oimon> we run SL on some pretty old machines
[16:19] <oimon> SL5 runs just fine on a P4
[16:19] <hamitron> P4 is i686
[16:19] <hamitron> so is P3
[16:20] <Azelphur> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/05/28/0347235/HTC-Is-Paying-Microsoft-5-For-Every-Android-Phone
[16:20] <Azelphur> :/
[16:20] <hamitron> it is cpu like the AMD K6-2
[16:20] <hamitron> and the VIA C3
[16:20] <hamitron> that are the main ones I need i586
[16:20] <oimon> how old/slow are these machines
[16:21] <hamitron> 120mhz to 850mhz
[16:21] <penguin42> hamitron: Do the K6-2's have cmov ?
[16:21] <hamitron> the 850mhz are not that old tbh
[16:21] <penguin42> oh, yeh if it's 850 it'll be relatively recent
[16:22] <hamitron> the AMD Geode are only i586 too i believe, but I don't have one of them
[16:22] <hamitron> and h6-2 does not have cmov
[16:22] <hamitron> k6-2*
[16:22] <hamitron> nor does the VIA C3
[16:23] <oimon> i can give u a newer machine if u need it :D
[16:23] <hamitron> but I know they run fine, if compiled for i586 cpu or lower
[16:23] <hamitron> oimon: ty, but I have 14 machines here needing love
[16:23] <hamitron> :)
[16:26] <hamitron> I should maybe not bother caring
[16:27] <hamitron> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1316240408.png
[16:27] <hamitron> haha
[16:27] <oimon> oof
[16:28] <oimon> should say "slower than treacle"
[16:28] <hamitron> that is worst I've had it tbh
[16:28] <hamitron> haha
[16:28] <oimon> on 2g mobile or something?
[16:28] <hamitron> ADSL
[16:28] <hamitron> ADSL Max I mean
[16:28] <hamitron> ;/
[16:29] <hamitron> I must say, it was faster without the Max bit
[16:29] <oimon> as already mentioned, debian tends to be the one with the best architecture support
[16:29] <oimon> i run debian on my linksys nlsu2
[16:29] <hamitron> yeh, debian works well tbh
[16:30] <hamitron> but ubuntu works just as well
[16:30] <hamitron> I mean, compiling for i686 over i586 doesn't really give that much of a performance increase
[16:31] <hamitron> there was talk of changing to i686
[16:31] <hamitron> but not sure what is happening
[16:32] <hamitron> i should maybe just learn a different distro, that is targeted more to what I need
[16:33] <hamitron> but ubuntu is where its at imo
[16:33] <hamitron> :)
[16:33] <hamitron> definately the place to be
[16:34] <oimon> so long as i can run a decent DE
[16:35] <oimon> and ubunt has sufficient users that all tastes can be catered for :D
[16:36] <oimon> although there's a lot to bne said for using the default DE...
[16:36] <hamitron> I choose default normally
[16:37] <hamitron> i use LXDE on some machines, for performance reasons
[16:37] <hamitron> but the rest I just leave everything default
[16:37] <kvarley> How do I add my button to the window? http://paste.ubuntu.com/614214/
[17:16] <kvarley> Installing gtkmm3.0 has made ambiance stop working
[17:56] <ball> hello kazade
[18:23] <livingdaylight> is there a preference dialog somewhere for the unity bar? I'd like to change the time it takes for the bar to hide and re-appear for eg, or even whether to set autohide to "on" or "off"
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> that's not configurable (yet?)
[18:25] <livingdaylight> no? is nothing configurable on unity bar?
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> the fact that it authides (and how) is configurable
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> but the time it takes isn't
[18:26] <MartijnVdS> but I guess they take patches
[18:27] <livingdaylight> where?
[18:28] <livingdaylight> or how?
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> ask gord
[18:38] <penguin42> my DSL is feeling very non-interactive today even though ping times to my machines seem to be consistently low
[18:38] <penguin42> ssh to my mail machine being laggy and beeb radio listen again dropping in and out
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> sounds like a large background upload?
[18:39] <penguin42> no tthat I can see and the router lights aren't a blinkin
[18:40] <MartijnVdS> have you tried resetting the router?
[18:40] <MartijnVdS> (powercycle)
[18:41] <penguin42> nah, not yet - but given ping times to my machines are Ok and no drops to them I doubt the DSL connection itself is bad
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> sometimes the os in your router will do that
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> It happens
[18:43] <penguin42> hmm it shouldn't - it's Linux
[18:48] <MartijnVdS> doctor time :)
[18:48] <penguin42> who?
[18:48] <MartijnVdS> yes, him
[19:07] <AlanBell> evening all
[19:07] <MartijnVdS> \o
[19:07]  * AlanBell is in a bar in France
[19:07] <AlanBell> with a rather cloudy local beer
[19:11] <AlanBell> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1316457270.png
[19:11] <AlanBell> and unexciting broadband
[19:48] <gord> AlanBell, i think thats about the uk average broadband, should be just like home ;)
[19:49]  * MartijnVdS reflects on the fact that the "archaeological theme park" (i.e. medieval houses, bronze age huts, etc.) here got fibre before me
[19:53] <gord> there is fibre in my area, i just can't seem to find a good ISP for it
[19:55] <MartijnVdS> My project at work is writing (part of) the code that makes us (ISP) able to use fibre :)
[19:55] <MartijnVdS> I think the projects will be finished around the same time (my work and the fibre-laying)
[19:56] <gord> is your job (ISP) a company (place of business) called be?
[19:56] <MartijnVdS> gord: xs4all
[19:57] <MartijnVdS> gord: in Amsterdam
[19:57] <gord> :(
[19:59] <AlanBell> it is a bit slower than home, but I only get 4Mbit
[20:00] <MartijnVdS> gord: pics of the park though: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks
[20:00] <penguin42> ah yeh, they've hosted some useful sites for many years
[20:00] <penguin42> gord: FTTC I assume?
[20:01]  * MartijnVdS will get ftth \o/
[20:02] <gord> penguin42, yup, to the home would be nice but not bothered
[20:02] <penguin42> gord: I think A&A do FTTC but they aren't cheap but they are well respected
[20:03] <gord> never heard of htem
[20:03] <penguin42> gord: aaisp.net.uk
[20:03] <shauno> I've heard good things about them too
[20:04] <gord> just took a look, looks like they limit you to X-gb during the day, which is bad
[20:04] <AlanBell> this bar is getting rather full of people here watching some football game
[20:05] <penguin42> gord: I think they let you pay for as much as you like - but as I say they aren't cheap
[20:05]  * AlanBell posts slightly controversial blog post
[20:05]  * MartijnVdS reads
[20:06] <shauno> I'm so lazy, that I'll wait until the bot gives me the url :)
[20:06] <gord> http://aaisp.net.uk/kb-broadband-bebt.html confuses me about their relationship with be
[20:06] <gord> why would they host that article?
[20:07] <penguin42> gord: Because they let you choose - they're intended for the technical people who actually care about how their DSL works
[20:07] <penguin42> (and that it does)
[20:08] <gord> you have lost me, i already have be internet
[20:08] <penguin42> gord: ok so most ISPs don't have equipment in exchanges, but they use someone elses - e.g. BTs or BEs
[20:09] <gord> oh christ they mean sky right?
[20:09] <penguin42> gord: That then routes to the ISPs equipment that then actually does IP routing and billing and peering onto whatever bandwidth they are going to pay for
[20:09] <AlanBell> talktalk have equipment I think
[20:09] <penguin42> AlanBell: Yeh there are a few
[20:09] <gord> not be the isp
[20:11] <penguin42> gord: I'm not sure of the relationship between Be and Sky; It all got a bit complex with Sky buying bits of different people
[20:11] <gord> what i'm saying, is that its not referring to the isp be
[20:11] <ali1234> gord: a&a have their own irc channel so you can go and ask them
[20:11] <penguin42> gord: Yes it is
[20:11] <gord> which run on bt stuff
[20:12] <penguin42> gord: Be/O2 have their own equipment in many exchanges
[20:12] <penguin42> gord: See http://www.samknows.com/broadband/llu
[20:12] <gord> it doesn't matter, aa are too ridged - you can't get much bandwidth during the day without paying £300
[20:13] <penguin42> yeh I said they weren't cheap - they will work though
[20:13] <gord> they aren't cheep because they are rediculous ;)
[20:13] <penguin42> gord: They have the reputation as the only ISP who can get BT to unscrew a line
[20:14] <ali1234> a&a are funny
[20:15] <ali1234> it's the same guy who redirected all the unused phone numbers to a time wasting message to annoy telemarketers
[20:15] <penguin42> ah that's right; Sky bought the Easynet network, not the Be one
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: so it's Skynet now?
[20:20]  * penguin42 gulps
[20:20] <shauno> oh oh oh .. I just remembered it's saturday ..
[20:21] <JonTheNiceGuy> Anyone know much about xen?
[20:21] <ali1234> the isp?
[20:21] <penguin42> ali1234: That's Zen
[20:22] <ali1234> oh, the virtualization?
[20:22] <AlanBell> the virtualisation thing?
[20:22] <JonTheNiceGuy> Yehr
[20:22] <ali1234> then, no
[20:23] <JonTheNiceGuy> I'm trying to figure out whether xm destroy <subdomain> actually does anything other than "pull the virtual power lead"
[20:23] <JonTheNiceGuy> Maybe I'll ask in #xen :)
[20:28] <jacobw> most OLOs have their own equipment in exchanges
[20:28] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Bell] Ubuntu UK LoCo CDs - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/05/28/ubuntu-uk-loco-cds/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ubuntu-uk-loco-cds
[20:30] <shauno> I can't see why that'd be controversial.  it was only k*  :)
[20:31] <AlanBell> well yeah, that was my feeling too :)
[21:22] <Azelphur> popey: you run totally vanilla on your mc server?
[21:24] <dutchie> Azelphur: yes, he does iirc
[21:24] <Azelphur> fun :p
[21:29] <popey> yes
[21:29] <popey> Dear Steam. Download faster.
[21:30] <gord> popey, you can change your location in the settings to get put on a different server, best thing to do is pick somewhere in eastern europe
[21:31] <popey> ooo
[21:31] <gord> i normally have to do that when say, valve release free DLC for left4dead or something
[21:35] <bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
[21:38] <jacobw> MOO
[21:38]  * jacobw hopes to panic bigcalm 
[21:39] <bigcalm> o.O
[21:40] <popey> evening bigcalm
[21:41] <bigcalm> Hey popey
[21:41] <popey> fancy some minecrafting? ☺
[21:41] <bigcalm> I am envious of you for still having a Wimpy
[21:41] <bigcalm> Sure :)
[21:41] <popey> i didnt have one
[21:41] <popey> sam did
[21:41] <popey> i just had a coffee
[21:42] <bigcalm> Indeed, but you have the 'choice' :P
[21:42] <popey> heh
[21:42] <popey> pizza hut was horribly scuzzy
[21:42] <bigcalm> Oh dear :(
[21:42] <bigcalm> They are quite good around here
[21:42] <popey> also the guy in wimpy gave sam a toy
[21:42] <popey> yeah, usually fine
[21:42] <bigcalm> \o.
[21:42] <bigcalm> \o/
[21:42] <popey> busy saturday
[21:42] <bigcalm> Aha
[21:42] <popey> its a spinning top with LEDs inside
[21:42] <popey> its _awesome_
[21:44] <emorris> hi, I've noticed a couple of times that the Update Manager just hangs with "waiting" and no progress. Is there anything I can do to get some useful information to report a bug?
[21:45] <penguin42> emorris: Gnome or KDE?
[21:45] <emorris> Pendulum, Gnome
[21:46] <penguin42> hmm not seen the Gnome one do that
[21:46] <emorris> Pendulum, sorry
[21:46] <jacobw> i guess that it cannot `apt-get update`
[21:47] <penguin42> it's worth trying it from the command line with apt-get and see if it works
[21:47] <emorris> Finally something happened. I got "There isn't any need for an installation" "Package [dbus.String(u'adobe-flash-properties-gtk')] is already installed", but I did have updates available
[21:48] <emorris> oh, now there's no updates :-s
[21:52] <jacobw> hmm, i think this a bug.
[21:52] <jacobw> you shouldn't be seeing dbus.String(..)
[21:53] <jacobw> !bugs
[21:54] <jacobw> i think the gtk program is upsetting dpkg and getting strings back from gtk that doesn't expect
[21:54] <jacobw> sorry, apt not dpkg
[21:55] <jacobw> ..
[21:55] <jacobw> also 'from apt' not 'from gtk'
[22:43] <jacobw> o/ Bassetts
[22:50] <shauno> toffee dodgers advert is possibly one of the best things I've seen on TV this year
[22:53] <gord> geez, windows is really really bad at two finger scroll