[12:07] <airtonix> sagaci: the most you'd be teaching with cert4 is jobseekers.
[12:07] <airtonix> anything more serious than that and you won't get employed without a teachers degree
[12:08] <airtonix> and THEN you'll be forced to teach things like : it's Microsoft Word, not a word processor
[12:08] <airtonix> until you complete a PHD on how awesome the ribbon bar in ms office is
[12:08] <airtonix> then you can become a program director
[12:09] <airtonix> that's when you get to tell others what they'll be teaching
[12:10] <airtonix> better off sneaking ubuntu in sideways from corporate training sessions
[12:10] <gorilla> teaching as field is one to get out of... you are not going to make a difference to someone's life.
[12:10] <airtonix> ^
[12:11] <gorilla> training the trainer qualifiication is worth having though... handy for running short courses.
[12:11] <airtonix> pays surprisingley well too
[12:12] <airtonix> singley!!!
[12:12] <gorilla> airtonix: yup... though the non-contact hours can be tough at first as you scronge the materials together.
[12:16] <sagaci> airtonix, are you a teacher at a tafe?
[12:17] <airtonix> sagaci: no but i had some good conversations with some teachers willing to talk to me about it, i was seriously thinking about going through teachers college
[12:18] <sagaci> airtonix, i'm nearly finished my b. teach, thinking about doing my cert iv for tafe teaching at half year
[12:19] <airtonix> well if you have the degree, then you're halfway there deciding what content is being taught
[12:19] <airtonix> you just have to find a school where the program director wants your opinions
[12:19] <airtonix> most of the time they don't. some of the time they do but can't take it because the government dictates the content.
[12:20] <airtonix> so my advice is to not focus so much on the idea of windows or linux, but rather the concepts used on both systems that should be standardised but currently are not.
[12:20] <airtonix> like, use python & qt instead of visualbasic
[12:21] <airtonix> or  slip in sessions on understanding the importance on referencing and how it is related to intergrating the choice of OSS license in a software project
[12:22] <gorilla> they are still teaching Visual basic?? ew-gawds.
[12:22] <airtonix> yeah
[12:22] <airtonix> quite a bit
[12:22] <airtonix> because microsoft give windows for free to schools
[12:22] <gorilla> Who uses that crap in industry?
[12:22] <airtonix> enough people for it to be taught 
[12:23] <gorilla> airtonix: Grrr... that makes me cross.
[12:23] <airtonix> fortunately my last year at tafe i was able to persueade my GUI interface course teacher to let me do the stuff in vbGTK
[12:23] <airtonix> so i didn't have to use visual studio
[12:24] <airtonix> i also showed him how much faster it was to create the same gui example interface in pyQT4 than it was in VB
[12:24] <airtonix> not to mention i could run it on a lot more systems
[12:25] <airtonix> but yeah, huge lack of standards and quality processes being taught in schools today
[12:25] <mrshr3d> how does pyQT4 compare to wxGlade/wxPython?  I've sort of started using the latter.
[12:25] <airtonix> im not sure i've not used wx enough to care
[12:26] <airtonix> qt4 has QSS which is CSS for your interface... i don't think wx has that
[12:26] <gorilla> airtonix: quality??? you can't be serious. Are we talking secondary or tertiary education here?
[12:26] <airtonix> tertiary
[12:27] <airtonix> i mean even simple things like documenting your code as you create it
[12:27] <gorilla> airtonix: In that case, quality has gone out the window as the uni and tafes receive more funding for each student that passes... So everyone gets a pass!
[12:29] <gorilla> Tafe more so... I went through it over 10 plus years ago and saw a lecuturers assitant helping someone through the practial exam... And not someone who had a disability.
[12:30] <airtonix> that still happens, but only if you demonstrate a genuine desire to understand the concepts
[12:30] <airtonix> if you bludge, they document it and fail you. i think they still get paid too
[12:30] <airtonix> but horrendous amount of paperwork to defend the action to the auditors
[12:31] <airtonix> to be honest, i'm more impressed by tafe than first year university.
[12:31] <gorilla> :-/ that's disgusting. I give up!
[12:31] <airtonix> as far as i'm concerned i'd rather have people who understand the concepts but need to refer to manuals, than people who can recite the manual but not understand the concepts
[12:32] <airtonix> I actually need an assistant django/python programmer at work, which will be hard to find in south australia
[12:33] <airtonix> which reminds me i need to write up an interview process
[12:33] <gorilla> airtonix: having someone that cannot go though basic program design or know where to start debugging becomes too hard on the job.
[12:34] <airtonix> yeah i'm not there to teach them how to understand the concepts
[12:35] <airtonix> about the partiucular project yeah sure. but not basic things like why we follow various PEP protocols
[12:36] <airtonix> i i'm sure that there are plenty of people in south australia who i would love to have working with me. but they are already employed
[12:36] <airtonix> or even worse... not in south australia
[12:38] <gorilla> yeah. I think if I was interviewing someone, I'd have a non-bootable computer sitting on a table and ask them what's wrong with it... just to see if that are observant and the steps that they go through (5 minute exercise)
[12:39] <elky> I'd probably respond with "did you put tape over the ram?"
[12:40] <gorilla> elky: we use rubber bands instead.. no residue left behind when you remove them
[12:40] <elky> gorilla, hah, good one
[12:40] <gorilla> elky: I'd unplug the power to the hard drive.
[12:42] <elky> also a good one, but not as good as the taped ram which wouldn't be visible without _close_ inspection
[12:43] <gorilla> elky: do an obvious fault also :-)
[12:43] <elky> gorilla, well if you're after an obvious fault and a non-obvious one, plug the hdd into the cd drive. people don't follow the cables.
[12:45] <gorilla> yeah.. it also can show that people follow a checklist based on previous exerience rather than troubleshooting the actual problem in front of them.
[12:46] <elky> doing a headcount before actually looking isn't so bad. it's when you stop at the headcount you fail.
[12:47] <mrshr3d> I don't follow what you mean by taping ram, do you mean like putting sticky tape on the contacts of the stick of ram then reinserting?
[12:47] <elky> yep
[12:47] <mrshr3d> lol nice prank hehe
[12:49] <gorilla> mrshr3d: No, not a prank. I would not be happy if I found that someone did that to my machine. removing the memory could be just as effective though.
[12:52] <mrshr3d> same, but I imagine it as something that would be done as a prank.
[13:54] <sagaci> head_victim, pingg
[13:56] <head_victim> sagaci: pong
[13:56] <sagaci> got a few moments?
[13:56] <head_victim> Yeah here for a few minutes
[13:58] <sagaci> what were the things I needed to apply for syndication to planet-au... I realise this is like the third time I've asked but it seems to go in one eye and out the other... or if you could pick out the day I asked last if your backlog is long enough 8)
[13:59] <sagaci> and also, it's raining here
[13:59] <head_victim> Your name, your blog home page, your blog feed and if you like a picture to associate with your blog :)
[14:00] <sagaci> did you copy paste that
[14:00] <sagaci> dejavu
[14:01] <head_victim> Nope, just memory :)
[14:01] <head_victim> If you just shoot it to me in an email I can then submit the request 
[14:02] <head_victim> Brb in a few minutes.
[14:11] <sagaci> ubuntu wiki is driving me up the wall, can't seem to get a username, exisiting or being able to register a new one
[14:28] <head_victim> sagaci: you're not the only one :/
[14:29] <head_victim> If it continues throughout tomorrow I'd log a bug on launchpad for it