[02:16] 16 hours spent on doing crapz for university [02:16] what a dreadful waste of time [02:21] Well kde4libs merged from Debian is built on i386 and powerpc, so there's plenty of sponsoring to do if you want to feel like you got something done today. [02:21] apachelogger: ^^^ [02:21] why u highlight so much [02:21] oh suppose that should have been y [02:21] well [02:22] if someone told me that being overlord means more highlights, I'd have reapplied sooner :P [02:23] ScottK: it is half past 3, perhaps after I had a coffee, some telly, a shower and maybe even breakfast ;) [02:23] It's not tomorrow until you sleep. [02:23] It's not too late to save today. [02:23] who said anything about sleeping :O [02:23] OK. Just checking. [02:24] ScottK: what disturbs me is that I actually haven't seen a sponsorship bug in my bugs folder all day [02:24] * ScottK is busy fixing Debian ATM. [02:24] Well we decided not to bother. [02:24] If you look on MoM it's in the MoM comments. [02:25] All the changes are in bzr. [02:25] The bug seemed rather like pointless paperwork. [02:26] I agree [02:26] though if the masters of DDD or what they call it these days knew.... [02:26] one must have a branch for the merge, then merge request it to the supreme branch [02:27] so that some sponsor can merge the branch into the supreme branch and then upload [02:27] reading this, it feels almost as insane as functional programming [02:27] oh gosh [02:27] Yes, well UDD is not quite there yet for general use, I must say. [02:28] there are mor scripts than I ever had in kubuntu-dev-tools :P [02:28] ScottK: anyhow, I guess my point is that there is a lack of pending-merge notification with just pushing it into the branch [02:35] True. [02:35] As a general rule, however, I think marking it in MoM and mentioning it here should be ~sufficient. [02:37] yep [02:38] we should document it somewhere, I fear people forget to add a comment on mom ^^ [02:38] "5 easy steps to make a merege that makes apachelogger sponsor it" [02:39] 1. Send alcohol. [02:40] 2 - 5. Repeat step 1. [02:40] kubotu: beer apachelogger [02:40] :D :D :D [02:40] kubotu: order tea, earl grey, hot for micahg [02:40] * micahg thought that would work... [02:40] * kubotu is replicating a hot cup of earl grey for captain micahg. [02:41] kubotu: please slide a beer down to apachelogger [02:41] * micahg doesn't get this... [02:41] kubotu: good tea :) [02:42] micahg: it is order [for nick] [02:42] kubotu: order expresso for apachelogger [02:42] * kubotu slides expresso down the bar to apachelogger [02:43] hm, sounds like my bed really won't get to see me tonight [02:43] good thing jussi is not around to send me to bed tomorrow :P [02:43] kubotu: order a nightcap for apachelogger [02:43] * kubotu slides a nightcap down the bar to apachelogger [02:43] apachelogger: you can choose your drink of choice at this hour :) [02:44] * ScottK starts to write a security complaint about micahg abusing the bot and then stops when he realizes where it would go. [02:44] hehe [02:44] * micahg stops now [02:46] apachelogger: BTW, there are 6 bugs tagged kubuntu in the sponsorship queue [02:46] I see spam linked in invitations have a 'confirm you know $PERSON' link, but no 'WTF is this?' link. [02:48] which reminds me that for some reason I am not a sponsor [02:48] I cannot process no sponsorship request :'( [02:49] * apachelogger takes his note book and writes down some stuff for kde sprint before going to bed [02:49] apachelogger: you can still process it, you just can't unsubscribe sponsors, to get membership, just ask a team admin [02:49] micahg: that surely requires me to switch to another channel, way too much hassle :P [02:50] apachelogger: nope, nhandler is an admin :) [02:50] sweet [02:51] I already asked kees. [02:51] Since he's the admin furthest west. [02:51] :D :D [02:51] well, themuso is further west and might actually be working :) [02:51] But then you knew that already since I highlighted you there too. [02:52] True. [02:52] But I can never tell what time it is there. [02:52] Besides, trying to mix Australia and Austria in the same context is far too confusing. [02:52] ScottK: for some reason notifications are broken for me, so I would not know [02:52] apachelogger: No chatview? [02:53] * ScottK wonders how apachelogger survives without chatview enabled. [02:53] gawd now, I have the attention span of a 5 year old, I'd have to scroll up to read what I was talking about due to stupid chatview eating away real estate [02:54] I think the true ADD experience is to use only the chatview. [02:54] Sometimes you have to be able to read quickly though. [02:55] hm, sounds like fun [03:02] micahg: Good call on TheMuso. [03:02] apachelogger: You're in sponsors now. [03:02] I am important [03:02] woohooo [03:02] :D [03:02] now I can go to bed [03:03] hehe, and we'll get the 3.0 kernel in oneiric soonish I guess: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTUwMg [03:03] I guess Linux doesn't like big version numbers. [03:04] apachelogger: No you need to sponsor some stuff first. [03:04] yeah, in the text he says "he real reason is just that I can no longer comfortably count as high as 40." [03:04] awww [03:05] with an iterative approach I can very much relate to that [03:07] hm, the sponsorhip bugs are all not actually kubuntu related [03:07] how boring [03:08] kubuntu is too well organized, we need to introduce some chaos [03:08] also, really, bed time [03:08] kubotu: order bed [03:08] * kubotu is placing a cot for apachelogger in the corner of #kubuntu-devel. [03:08] * apachelogger snoozes away [03:09] * ScottK notes a disturbing lack of stuff apachelogger uploaded in the build queue. [04:52] *\o/* [04:52] * ScottK waves back. [04:52] Did something good happen? [04:53] ScottK: I got out my pom-poms [04:54] this thing is rockin', very pleased [04:54] Too bad apachelogger went to sleep. [04:54] He would enjoy those. [04:54] Glad you're liking it. [04:55] yeah, just need to shave some RAM, but otherwise very usable, looks slick, low CPU usage [04:56] the good thing on the RAM from is I got back several hundred MB by switching back to Firefox from Chromium [04:56] *front [04:56] so that at least counteracts GNOME -> KDE [05:01] Ubuntu's Firefox is patched to integrate well with the Default KDE style (Oxygen) [05:03] yeah, it looks real nice [05:04] I was surprised [05:04] I'm used to Firefox looking like crap in KDE [05:06] I'll confess I've kind of lost track. I've used Chromium almost exclusively since it hit the Ubuntu archive. [05:06] I mostly use Firefox for my 'facebook browser'. [05:07] I figure the odds of stuff leaking across unexpected facebook privacy barriers are lower if I only log into facebook with a browser I don't use for anything else. [05:08] And then I don't check facebook as often as I used to. [05:10] well, I was using Chromium exclusively for a long time [05:10] but it just kept sucking up RAM [05:11] and I couldn't figure out what was going on [05:11] if I leave it for very long (especially on Gmail) I end up using say 400-500 MB of RAM [05:11] I do the same thing in Firefox, leave it for days, open tabs, close tabs, etc. and I stay between 150 and 250 MB [05:12] so I switched, even though Chromium is faster and I like some of its features better [05:19] I'll have to try using Firefox on the netbook then. [05:19] RAM usage is definitely a problem there. [05:23] ScottK: you can accomplish the same separation by using different profiles [05:24] That would require me to know what I'm doing. [05:25] I use a separate user to visit financial web sites even though I know I could do that with separate profiles too. [05:25] ScottK: just start it with -P [05:35] hm. Can you run firefox with 2 different profiles at the same time? If I open firefox again it just opens a new window for the current profile [05:35] good morning btw. [05:36] yofel: yes, MOZ_NO_REMOTE=1 firefox -P [05:38] thanks :) [08:35] does someone remember why we make plasma-wallpapers-addons depend on kdebase-workspace-wallpapers and kdewallpapers in ubuntu? I could somehow get Suggests or Recommends, but I see no reason why it should depend on them [08:37] the changelog doesn't have anything useful about it either [08:41] yofel: yeah, that doesn't make sense [08:42] especially if it's undocumented [08:42] apachelogger: didn't we have a button in the wallpaper chooser dialog to install additional packages? [08:48] hm, bzr annotate is useful ^^ [08:48] JontheEchidna: do you remember why you added that? (back in 4.2.85) [08:54] hm no one has merged kdepimlibs yet :( [08:55] * debfx fixes a kde4libs overwrite error before someone notices it [09:11] apachelogger: ping [09:23] * debfx hands JontheEchidna the bzr add command :P [09:23] kdebase-runtime doesn't have the debian patches in bzr [09:29] how do we handle patches from debian that we don't want to apply? [09:30] imho adding them commented to series is the best way to make sure someone doesn't accidentally add them later [10:16] apachelogger: kubuntu_02_fix_digets_encoding.diff from the qoauth package should be upstreamed, right? [10:16] http://launchpadlibrarian.net/52630546/qoauth_1.0-2ubuntu1_1.0-2ubuntu2.diff.gz [10:48] JontheEchidna: 30-nepomuk-inotify-limit.conf wasn't installed anymore in kdebase-runtime [10:48] I've fixed that and uploaded [12:17] hola a todos [12:47] debfx: http://i.imgur.com/oWbpg.png [12:47] padams: pong [12:48] debfx: I blieve I sent the qoauth patches upstream [12:48] perhapsneeds repoking [12:51] Anthony Mercatante (tonio) has accepted the invitation to make Kubuntu [12:51] KdeSudo Development Team (kubuntu-kdesudo) a member of UBUNTU - AL [12:51] (linux-traipu). [12:51] * apachelogger sighs [12:53] Heh, has that team been brought up with any launchpad folks? It does seem to be a bit of an abuse of services (spamming everybody with "Please make your team a member of mine" requests) [12:57] ryanakca: IIRC ScottK said that the lp people say we need to take this to the community council [12:58] which is interesting as *I* as launchpad user, unrelated to my involvement with youbuntoo, feel annoyed by the spam [13:00] apachelogger: ditto [13:07] afiestas: ping [13:07] * ryanakca is surprised LP doesn't have an Acceptable Use Policy. But really, a troll signing up, putting the word "Ubuntu" on his LP page and annoying people really shouldn't involve the CC. If the guy was involved in *buntu, sure, but he hasn't contributed *anything*. [13:08] * ryanakca shrugs and gets back to work. [13:08] ryanakca: we don't know if they really are a troll, or just an annoying^Hover enthusiastic n00b ;) [13:08] tsimpson: Sure :) [13:10] apachelogger: ok, I suppose I already have installed the wallpapers [13:10] apachelogger: I don't see anything on the qoauth github site [13:10] apachelogger: pong [13:10] afiestas: do you have time to preview a blog post real quick? [13:11] debfx: yeah, the button disappears when kde-wallpapers or whatever it is called is installed [13:11] makes sense [13:11] it is supreme apachelogger patching :P [13:11] might be worth carrying upstream one way or another [13:11] apachelogger: yes [13:11] which leads back to the whole topic of getting a distro agnostic api that can be used for that plunder [13:12] afiestas: you should be getting a mail in a bit [13:14] apachelogger: you could use your supreme patching powers to make the samba package installer work with qapt [13:15] apachelogger: nice [13:16] debfx: but then we diverg0r from upstream [13:16] also JontheEchidna is better suited to do that ^^ [13:25] jussi: my board be pending, arr [13:26] a pending arrm board one might say ^^ [13:26] afiestas: good to publish? [13:26] apachelogger: whens the ship date? [13:26] on -- [13:27] the international day of pending [13:27] :D [13:27] they apparently ate money from my account already though ^^ [13:29] apachelogger and ryanakca: The specific issue I had a couple of days ago was a different team, be see the results of my trying to get LP to deal with it: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/158592 [13:30] apachelogger: yes, go ahead [13:30] afiestas: thanks [13:32] apachelogger: This reminds me you sent me a review request some days ago. Still need reviewing? [13:32] well, it is published in a bit, so you can review it then ^^ [13:33] I find myself unaccountably awake on a holiday Monday with no plans (the plan was to be asleep), so I could do it if you wanted. [13:33] OK. [13:39] ScottK: http://apachelog.wordpress.com/2011/05/30/to-kde-with-love/ [13:46] apachelogger: Nice. I found I had mail about it too. [13:47] yah, I believe the review thing is quite the spam machine, IIRC you get mails whenever I'd edit the post after its pubishing [13:47] a bit of a monstarrrr [13:50] Must be why I got the second one. [13:51] Quintasan: syncbackup or easybackup are no option? [13:51] Did he say about kbackup? [13:52] !info easybackup [13:52] Package easybackup does not exist in natty [13:52] !syncbackup [13:52] Sorry, I don't know anything about syncbackup [13:52] Ah. I see the mail now. [13:52] !info syncbackup [13:52] Package syncbackup does not exist in natty [13:55] shadeslayer: ping? [13:56] ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh [13:56] me eyes!1 [13:56] me precious eyes!!! [13:56] kbackup--------- [13:56] apachelogger: ? [13:56] :D [13:56] do not under any circumstances go to the kbackup site [13:56] your head might melt or something [13:56] also [13:57] this is epic [13:57] "CVS access" [13:57] ScottK, Quintasan: that just rendered kbackup a non-competitor [13:57] ah, backintime is more pleasing on the eyes, nice [13:58] the UI is not the best though [13:59] Yes, I saw. [13:59] apachelogger: kbackup has been around for quite awhile, so there is some cruft/inertia. [14:00] Actually sourceforge isn't the correct site anymore. [14:00] hm, even better, leaving rotting sites around :S [14:01] * apachelogger notes that a random google run for backup software on linux turns up the most horrid GUIs ever [14:01] it is like every design sin ever commited,is surely implemented in a backup ui [14:01] brrr [14:01] * ScottK notes that there are people who declare all VCS later than CVS fundamentally broken as it's impossible to live without per file logs. [14:02] * ScottK further notes he is not one of those people. [14:02] * jussi notes ScottK noting [14:02] curious [14:02] that sounds rather oyvey(tm) [14:03] as if it mattered whether a log was per file, per dir, per commit or per rand()%fileAmount [14:10] The standard practice is to have CVS write the log into the relevant file as a comment, so it kind of makes sense. [14:10] What's less clear is why other, more modern, ways don't suffice. [14:13] ScottK: I'd argue that doing that only works if you are a lazy programmer and only change stuff once every 5 years [14:15] * ScottK would agree. [14:18] * ScottK considers founding the "Ubuntu Unfriendly Squad", but in the end decides it's not worth the trouble. [14:27] kubotu: order a bucket of icetea for me [14:27] * kubotu slides a bucket of icetea down the bar to me [14:27] kubotu: order a bucket of icetea for yofel [14:27] * kubotu slides a bucket of icetea down the bar to yofel [14:27] too freakin' hot -.- [14:28] kubotu: order two buckets of ice for yofel [14:28] * kubotu slides two buckets of ice down the bar to yofel [14:28] better :) [14:35] for me too, please [14:35] it's way too hot here [14:35] kubotu: order two buckets of ice and a cold shower for debfx [14:35] * kubotu slides two buckets of ice and a cold shower down the bar to debfx [14:36] thanks! [14:50] micahg: Is there a reason we don't ship the SPI ca cert for Firefox/Chromium? [14:52] FYI: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/pkg-kde-tools/0.14.0ubuntu1~natty1 [14:52] Shortly no more need to manually backport pkg-kde-tools. [14:56] micahg: http://www.spi-inc.org/ca/ [14:57] Therfore I suggest using BackInTime KDE as our backup application [14:59] jussi: pong? [14:59] Bug 507246 may have the best title ever: [14:59] Launchpad bug 507246 in backintime (Ubuntu) "failure to backup -> everything is sunshine" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/507246 [14:59] hahahaha [15:00] Quintasan: It does seem to have some bugs. [15:00] agateau: have you seen my ping from yesterday? [15:01] ScottK: Still better than KBackup and developer is even doing something [15:01] debfx: no I haven't [15:01] * agateau scrols [15:01] * Quintasan had like 9 errors in memtest [15:01] scrolls [15:01] agateau: oh i haz a bug for you in gwenview [15:01] Quintasan: I agree that it's probably better since the lack of restore is a serious problem. [15:01] agateau: libdbusmenu-qt exports symbols from private header files [15:01] agateau: but i don't have any debug symbols [15:02] agateau: are those really needed? [15:02] ScottK: Well, I could not find it [15:02] It is maybe hidden somewhere [15:02] :D [15:02] Quintasan: No. It's missing. [15:02] It's missing by design though. [15:02] debfx: I don't think so [15:02] * agateau looks [15:02] It sort of assumes one knows how to untar and pick out the file one wants. [15:03] JontheEchidna: When do I get KRunner for Muon? [15:03] agateau: its something like : Go to a partition contaning a jpeg file > Try dragging the jpeg file > menu pops up > click anywhere else to close menu > gwenview crashes [15:03] shadeslayer: IRC makes a poor bug reporting medium. [15:03] ScottK: yeah i'll report it once i have the debug symbols [15:03] shadeslayer: is it reliably reproducible? [15:03] agateau: yes [15:03] every time [15:04] debfx: might have to do with being able to use those classes from unit-tests [15:04] debfx: not the best thing though [15:04] shadeslayer: let me try to reproduce [15:04] agateau: sure i'm installing debug symbols meanwhile [15:04] shadeslayer: I can't replicate this. Are you on 64bit? [15:04] ScottK: yes and i'm running trunk [15:04] Ah. [15:05] No trunk here. [15:05] ( looks like a crash somewhere in Qt i might add ) [15:05] shadeslayer: crashes here as well (with master) [15:05] agateau: ah right, they include private headers [15:07] agateau: http://paste.kde.org/76375 [15:07] shadeslayer: yes, stupid mistake on my side [15:08] :) [15:08] shadeslayer: about to commit the fix, thanks for reporting [15:08] np :) [15:09] ScottK: what woudl the ubuntu unfriendly squad do? [15:09] devalidate HW? [15:10] shadeslayer: fix pushed [15:11] apachelogger: Apply appropriate negativity at people that are screwing up. [15:12] See recent discussions here with shadeslayer as an illustrative example of what such a team might accomplish. [15:12] agateau: \o/ [15:14] ScottK: oh, I do not want to read :( [15:14] but the idea sounds like something we should have [15:14] wait what are you guys talking about? [15:15] you [15:15] yofel: the weather wallpaper plugin in that package uses wallpapers from both packages [15:16] apachelogger: what about me? [15:16] don't remember, chatview is in my way and I am too lazyto scroll [15:16] darn you chatview *wave fist* [15:17] I fear we have too much to do [15:17] IIRC it was something about wayward minions needing encouragement to do useful and appropriate quality work. [15:17] also I fear we need different approaches to undoing the todos [15:17] wiki edit, delete, save, done. [15:18] but then what do we do until release? [15:18] there is only so much .prn one can watch [15:18] ScottK: i am starting to do work again, but just need a *bit* more time ( just 10 more days! ) ..... but i am going to do stuff this time [15:18] https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/159498 [15:18] api [15:18] wooohooo [15:18] !info plasma-runner-installer oneiric [15:18] flip me running [15:18] 'oneiric' is not a valid distribution: hardy, hardy-backports, hardy-proposed, jaunty, jaunty-backports, jaunty-proposed, karmic, karmic-backports, karmic-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, maverick, maverick-backports, maverick-proposed, medibuntu, natty, natty-backports, natty-proposed, partner, stable, testing, unstable [15:19] trololo [15:19] Quintasan: plasma-runner-installer in oneiric [15:19] oh, bah, I forgot [15:19] JontheEchidna: yeah blame jussi [15:19] jussi: now you need to blame Quintasan [15:20] Quintasan: you consquently blame the shadeslayer [15:20] and then I join and blame ScottK [15:20] a circle of blame [15:20] shadeslayer: Great. [15:20] apachelogger: who would blame me again :P [15:20] if only we'd got an ubuntu unfriendly squad [15:20] we could have a daily circle of blame [15:20] blamelogger [15:20] ahh, just skip it, its shadeslayer's fault because I have no blink. [15:21] it's pythons fault for not working [15:21] apachelogger: circles are no fun. It's much better to have a hierarchy where blame can be dumped down on minions from above. [15:21] yay [15:22] I has retracted membership of kubuntu-mobile on that spam team [15:22] yay [15:22] now if only tonio had not made kdesudo member of that team -.-\ [15:22] * apachelogger sighs a bit and stuff [15:23] Someone who lives in France should go hunt down Tonio_ and make him rejoin us. With jr distracted we could use his help again. [15:23] ScottK: well yes, but the minions would be implementing a circle [15:23] What I want to know is how I became a Xubuntu Developer, Member, User and Tester [15:23] we need a circle, so that the team can relate to the ubuntu circle of friends [15:23] apachelogger: As long as I'm above the circle, I'm fine with circles. [15:23] hence a circle of blame would be a circle of unfriendly [15:23] JontheEchidna: Happened when you got core-dev. It's inescapable. [15:23] ScottK, hey :) [15:24] ScottK: well, you are overlord [15:24] oh [15:24] Tonio_: ! [15:24] Ah. It's a Tonio_. [15:24] hi guys [15:24] not than I don't want to rejoin, but I don't use kde anymore [15:24] Tonio_: can you please make kubuntu-members or kubuntu-council admin of kdesudo-kubuntu [15:24] worse, I can't use it [15:24] Tonio_: You can come back to KDE now. Even laserjock declared it good. [15:24] are you on arm and KDE does nto work? [15:24] cause we have a fix for that :P [15:24] ScottK, I need to test it... [15:25] In any case if you could do the team thing apachelogger asks, that would be really helpful. [15:25] ScottK: btw did you see my beautiful kubuntu-low-fat? [15:25] ScottK, but the absolute lack of "professionnalism" in kde developpment, breaking things release after release, isn't making me confident for the future, to be honnest :) [15:26] apachelogger: I recall the proposal. I did not notice any implementation yet. Where can I find it? [15:26] Tonio_: It seems to be getting better. [15:26] ScottK, anyway, I wanna test it again, and if it's ready to be used, I'm quite okay to switch back [15:26] I think the kmail pain we're about to experience is the last major one for awhile. [15:26] ScottK, in witch way is jr distracted ? [15:27] ScottK: that is why I ask, I forgot where I put it :P [15:27] Tonio_: He's on rotation to the bzr team for 6 months, so he's only a free time contributor to Kubuntu this cycle. [15:27] ScottK, kmail is basically the most important app for me [15:27] oh okay [15:27] ScottK: lp:kubuntu-low-fat-settings [15:27] so there is no more people "paid" to make kubuntu ? [15:27] ScottK: doesn't hook into the configs yet, so you need to fiddle with something somewhere [15:27] Tonio_: steveire has been working very hard to make sure we'll all love kmail2. [15:28] We'll find out shortly. [15:28] the reason it does not do that yet, is because overlord apachelogger decided that implementing a decascader first made more sense [15:28] Tonio_: Not this cycle (paid contributors). [15:28] "paid contributors" ? [15:28] ah ok sorry [15:28] got it [15:29] apachelogger: Sounds like something that requires me to think, which is unlikely at 10:28 AM on a holiday. [15:29] ScottK: well, next year we can start from scratch with KDE 5 ;) [15:29] Tonio_: He'll be back. [15:29] ScottK, oh did you know my gf is pregnant, and I'm gonna get married ? [15:29] Tonio_: I did not. Congratulations. [15:29] Tonio_: I've lost track of you. Are you back in France? [15:29] yup [15:29] I never was gone in fact [15:30] my company is in canada, but I stay in france [15:30] I thought you were in Canada for awhile? [15:30] Ah. [15:30] OK. [15:30] I pretty much stopped kubuntu simply because I can't consider working on a project I don't trust in the first place... [15:30] So we can send agateau after you if you go missing. [15:30] So you think you can trust Gnome Shell better? [15:31] I really hope kde will make it again, but honnestly, afaics the nightmare kde4 has been since it's first release completly blow up the user's database... [15:31] I don't know if I can trust gnome-shell :) [15:31] but I know gnome 2 is still there, and kde 3 isn't :) [15:31] For the moment. [15:31] but yeah, gnome-shell could push people to try kde again [15:31] I think KDE4 is almost there. [15:32] Tonio_: It already has. [15:32] especially since unity is far from beeing universally loved [15:32] That and Unity both. [15:32] ScottK, wanna know what is my primary OS right now ? [15:32] windows 7.... and it's amazing [15:32] BTW, thanks to afiestas_work and friends KDE and bluetooth is now in very good shape (I remember that was one of your pain points) [15:33] ScottK, know what ? I'm gonna test kde4 toonight [15:33] Great. [15:33] ScottK, I had a lot of points, but mainly, my concern was that I felt kde didn't consider users need (aka wireless manager that works, bluetooth) [15:33]