=== Soupermanito is now known as Souperior === Souperior is now known as Aristoteles_mode === Aristoteles_mode is now known as Souperficial === Souperficial is now known as Ahab === Ahab is now known as Souperior [02:54] mr_pouit: so, I got most of the plugins sync'd, the remaining ones either need a merge or FTBFS, would you consider using dpkg-vendor and having xubuntu specific stuff in Debian? [11:07] micahg: I saw that, thanks for all the syncs! :) [11:07] for dpkg-vendor, I don't know, I'll have to see with Corsac [11:07] I'm not sure all deltas are worth that though [11:09] especially for very ubuntu specific changes (e.g. when the design team decide to cripple gtk) [11:16] and other "long-term" changes (e.g. different binary packages for tumbler) might evolve as upstream makes improvement (e.g. for tumbler, a gstreamer thumbnailer has been added in git, so the packaging split will not be needed anymore) [11:17] I guess, let's make a list of the ones that still have some ubuntu delta ;-) [15:18] Good morning [15:20] Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 5 hours (19:00 UTC). Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings [15:35] charlie-tca: can you let my mail through on xubuntu-devel? I used the wrong email addy :\ [15:36] I have to have cody-somerville do it. I am only admin on xubuntu-users [15:36] cody-somerville: help please! [15:36] oh ok [15:37] sent it yesterday, follow-up to drupal theme question [15:37] Oh, good. I was hoping you would have an answer to that one [15:54] Kernel is in now going to 3.0.0 [15:59] Has Linus been talkinig to Patrick? [16:00] I don't know, but he made the decision to jump to 3.0 instead of -40 [16:00] Yeah, I read that. [16:00] wouldn't 2.8 have made more sense? [16:00] nevermind, sense need not apply [16:01] I don't know. Apparently it has not been enough time for 2.8 yet [16:01] http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2011-05-30-006-41-NW-LF-KN [16:02] Woah, I haven't heard the term "bikesheding" in ages :) [16:02] lucky you :) [16:03] stick around, it does get used in Ubuntu every so often [16:03] Nah, Think I'll move to LMDE ;) [16:04] charlie-tca: no meeting for me again this week, I'm in canada visiting my sister [16:04] * pleia2 will be out exploring edmonton! [16:04] nice [16:04] no updates though, still need to set up a wordpress test bed [16:04] have fun [16:04] no problem [16:04] knome: thanks :) [16:04] enjoy yourself [16:04] pleia2, i could do that [16:05] just doesn't make this non-sucky [16:05] knome: yeah, I figured one of us would, I am reinstalling one of my servers next weekend so it would be no problem for me to toss it in and give you admin [16:05] I was waiting to calm down from being annoyed at the suckiness ;) [16:05] +1 on the knome statement. It has been very frustrating [16:06] pleia2, takes me about 5mins to set up a wordpress installation :) [16:06] * pleia2 nods [16:06] well, whichever one of us can, preferably in a place where we can both have ssh and wordpress admin [16:07] mm-hmm [16:07] that would be okay for me as well, but if you have your own server, that's maybe better [16:08] yeah, I have one that I specifically maintain for ubuntu stuff (even though it runs debian, sshh) [16:08] :) [16:15] * pleia2 back to canadaing [16:15] beer, eh [16:15] :-) [16:18] beer, where? [16:18] bear?! [16:19] polar bears are here in the streets of helsinki [16:19] :P you know what a polar bear is? [16:19] i do. [16:19] Bah...another day, another bØrked install :( [16:19] :P [16:20] its a bear who's mother is real and his father imaginary! [16:20] Soupermanito, psst, i'm his father [16:20] XD [16:21] drc: nothing is installing today: Ubuntu desktop images broken, Kubuntu desktop images broken, Xubuntu alternate and desktop images broken [16:21] D: [16:21] At least it's consistent. [16:22] Ubuntu and Kubuntu alternate images work [16:24] bah...off to visit sister (in hospital, not Edmonton, unfortunately) [16:45] !es [16:45] En la mayoría de canales de Ubuntu se habla sólo en inglés. Si busca ayuda en español o charlar entra en el canal #ubuntu-es. Escribe "/join #ubuntu-es" (sin comillas) y dale a enter. [16:45] knome: can we add #xubuntu-es to that factoid? You are better at it than I am. [18:25] drc: how is your sister? [18:26] ill, but not currently life threatening [18:26] very good [18:26] She's getting old (nevermind that she's a year younger than I am) [18:26] I resemble old, too [18:27] * charlie-tca been told he resembles elderly at times, too [18:28] * drc positively states that although he is a curmudgeon, not he is *not* old. GOML! [18:35] charlie-tca: Is there somewhere I can check to see if the daily images are known to fail (like today) before I DL and try to install? I don't mind the fail, but it's just a waste of time is it's a *known thing*. [18:36] This normally should tell you - http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/xubuntu/oneiric/ [18:36] but you can also ask here. I normally run them as soon as I can sync them. [18:37] But that could be after tea time :) [18:38] I also look at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/ daily and daily-live to see if new images were even created. [18:38] Looking at daily-live shows we have not even created ov [18:38] oneiric images yet [18:38] yup, just alternate [18:38] daily is the alternate image and daily-live is the desktop [18:39] so, daily-live will fail until we get an image [18:40] That log file is a large file, anything I'm looking for in particular (as in: I can search for)? [18:40] normally search for ERROR [18:41] or error, in the logs, but I don't think the alternate image is failing there [18:42] at least, I don't see the error in there [19:33] Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 25 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings [19:59] * charlie-tca looks around for those attending the meeting [19:59] * micahg pokes his head up [19:59] * drc arrives early so he can get a seat down front. [20:00] closer to the refreshments! [20:00] * charlie-tca thinks at least the front row isn't empty now [20:00] Welcome to the Xubuntu Community Meeting! [20:01] * micahg could use some refreshments [20:01] We have a few things to discuss today, the full agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings [20:01] o hai [20:01] * charlie-tca gives micahg a soda [20:01] mr_pouit made it, too! [20:01] * micahg thanks charlie-tca for the soda [20:01] * holstein lurks as well [20:02] Here is the agenda, for [20:02] those who can't get the web page to work today [20:02] Old business - all [20:02] email the ML with proposed meeting days and times, Mon, Tues only for days [20:02] knome is to set up a tele-conference of some type to discuss marketing - carried forward [20:02] Team updates - Team Leads [20:02] Packaging & Development [20:02] Bug Triage & Testing [20:02] Website & Marketing [20:02] Artwork [20:02] Documentation [20:02] Announcements - Project Lead [20:02] TeamReports need to be updated [20:02] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports [20:02] Governance structure - all [20:02] Any Other Business - all/anyone [20:02] First Item: email the ML with proposed meeting days and times, Mon, Tues only for days [20:02] that isn't right. [20:03] We can not hold meetings on Tuesday or Wednesday [20:03] I suppose the easiest solution to it would be to hold every other meeting on Sunday? [20:03] All opposed? [20:04] comments as to best time? [20:04] by the silence, do we assume any time is fine for everybody? [20:05] I'm pretty open on Sunday [20:05] Okay, proposed: Hold the meetings on Mondays at 19:-00 and Sunday at 22:00 alternating weeks? [20:06] mr_pouit: will that be too late for you? [20:06] I am hoping for maximum participation if we get times that anyone interested can attend [20:06] no, it'll be okay [20:07] Any objections? [20:07] motion passed by majority silence; Next weeks meeting will be Sunday at 22:00 UTC [20:07] next item - knome is to set up a tele-conference of some type to discuss marketing - carried forward [20:08] knome: Have you had a chance to think on this? [20:08] Marketing plays a key role in almost every aspect of a distribution, so this is an important item for us. [20:08] We need to get more people than me and knome involved in marketing, please? [20:09] Define "marketing" [20:09] please") [20:09] This includes news releases, blogs, release parties, [20:09] is there a marketing team? or wiki page? [20:10] anything we can do to promote Xubuntu, including maybe open week, developer week, etc. [20:10] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing [20:11] * holstein bookmarking [20:11] Team updates - Team Leads [20:11] Packaging & Development [20:11] mr_pouit: updates? [20:12] hm, silence is not GOLDEN today [20:12] a few syncs/merges by me, for the main work: almost all panel plugins synced thanks to micahg ;-) [20:12] sorry, laggy wifi [20:13] I hate those lags [20:13] Anything we can do about xfce4-notifyd : Conflicts: notification-daemon so we can get the alpha1 images to work? [20:14] something is pulling notification-daemon, but I didn't really investigate what [20:14] I think we're pulling in the GNOME stack again [20:14] probably a new dep since natty, because it was fine at that time [20:14] yup [20:14] yeah, very likely [20:15] we have alpha1 this thursday, so if we can fix this, we get an image. At least go for the alternate image this time [20:15] desktop images look bad for everybody today [20:15] can we switch to lightdm or is that too crazy to change? [20:15] that should get rid of some of the deps [20:15] Ubuntu already has, haven't they? [20:15] no, blocked on MIR, that doesn't affect us [20:16] mr_pouit: what do we need to do to switch from gdm to lightdm? [20:16] that it works ;p [20:17] it does, the sample greeter is good enough to log in with [20:17] Can t test it until we have a working image [20:17] (I've heard bad things from a pkg-xfce debian maintainer who has tested it, not sure it was the latest release ;-) [20:17] well, I have had 0.3.5 logging into xubuntu on oneiric w/out issue [20:17] okay, then I guess it's fine [20:18] can't speak to working on an image though [20:18] no pam/ck/pk issue? [20:18] wfm, shows a user list, but so does gdm by default [20:18] eh, lag again >.< [20:18] I haven't stress tested it yet [20:19] It is not forcing you to start gnome-keyring or anything? [20:19] once I login, it uses gnome-keyring [20:20] If mr_pouit is okay with it, I am willing to fight with it too. It will help us get the bugs out of it. [20:21] oh, can we kick parole out of recommends? [20:22] yeah, we should definitely switch to lightdm, but before alpha1, that's seems a bit difficult [20:22] where do I find the seeds for Xubuntu? I need to know that too [20:22] micahg: How about we switch right after alpha1 then, since we need to make an image work real soon like. [20:23] hm, my lag just went up to 1 second [20:23] that's fine with me, I just don't remember what was pulling in unity [20:23] micahg: it's the default "media" player after all (gmusicbrowser is only for music collections) [20:24] mr_pouit: orly? I thought gmusicbrowser was supposed to do it all [20:24] charlie-tca: launchpad.net/ubuntu-seeds, somewhere in code (xubuntu.oneiric) [20:24] Thanks, mr_pouit [20:24] micahg: no, gmusicbrowser can not play a cd [20:24] or a movier, either [20:24] ah, ok, I missed that then [20:25] Isn't parole a movie player? [20:25] charlie-tca: re seeds: https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.oneiric [20:25] Thanks [20:25] so, parole will need to stay [20:26] exaile was replaced by gmusicbrowser, right? [20:27] Moving along in spite of our lags, next topic is Bug Triage & Testing [20:28] I have SouperManito and beardygnome signed up to test starting Tuesday. and I don't show either one here today :-( [20:29] bugs might be getting ahead of us again, but mr_pouit is doing good trying to stay on top of the most serious ones. [20:29] Questions for anything covered so far? [20:30] is there a testing wiki? [20:30] yes, there is [20:30] i plan on running a test install ASAP [20:30] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing [20:31] I been trying each day to get the alternate images to install. [20:31] The good??? news is Ubuntu and Kubuntu desktop images also fail today :-( [20:32] :/ [20:32] its early [20:32] yes, it is, but with that alpha1 on June 2, it should be working today [20:33] That brings us to Artwork [20:33] right [20:33] Xfce now has a design team starting, which could really be a *big* benefit to us [20:33] go ahead, ochosi [20:34] sry, people i'm late [20:34] hope i didn't miss too much important stuff [20:34] looks right on time, to me. [20:34] so yeah, i started a design initiative in xfce [20:34] together with JPohlmann [20:35] it's mostly about optimizing the UI [20:35] in general anyone can participate, but we haven't announced it yet on the xubuntu mailinglists [20:35] i think the xfce-guys are enough for a start [20:35] and then we'll see how it goes [20:35] other than that i've been experimenting with small improvements to greybird [20:36] but nothing spectacular yet [20:36] there is a compact xfwm4 theme now [20:36] it's not complete yet, but usable [20:36] it's only 18px high, for those who want to save on vertical pixels [20:36] about the xfce design stuff [20:36] you're welcome to participate [20:36] wiki page is here: https://wiki.xfce.org/design/start [20:37] I think any optimizations upstream are going to benefit us, and might even mean less work at our level. [20:37] and feel free to contact me or jannis in #xfce-dev [20:37] yes, the kind of changes we're planning (and doing) should really happen upstream [20:38] Any changes for greybird that we should be aware of? [20:38] not really [20:39] at least not at the moment [20:39] Any questions about artwork or upstream design? [20:42] Comments about anything discussed so far? [20:42] Announcements [20:42] TeamReports need to be updated - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports [20:43] This is the end of May, please feel free to add whatever you are doing for Xubuntu to this report. [20:43] Alpha1 will be oversized, please don't report bugs about that [20:44] The next linux kernel will be called linux 3.0.0 instead of 2.6.40 [20:44] charlie-tca: actually, just 3.0 :) [20:45] huhu [20:45] We do have a support channel for spanish support, that is not included in the !es factoid [20:45] It is #xubuntu-es, and feel free to direct those requiring support to it. [20:46] Dapper Drake is EOL on June 1. Doesn't really affect us, but will affect those running a server with it. [20:46] \o/ [20:46] We are seeing an increase in users in #xubuntu. Let's try to [20:47] give them the best support we can. I know we are doing that already, and it really is great to see! [20:47] mr_pouit: what are the chances we get the thunar startup-lag-fix in natty? [20:48] there's no fix currently [20:48] Governance structure [20:49] At this time, until we have more participation, I do not see us trying to set up a governing council. I think I said that a couple of months ago, but want to make sure it is known., [20:49] I will be adding to the Stradegy Document how to select a new Project Lead by vote, though. [20:50] hm, there's that marketing thing again. increase participation in Xubuntu [20:50] mr_pouit: i thought there's one in git? [20:51] Thunar 1.2.2 was supposed to have the fix, I think [20:52] mr_pouit: i meant that: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/commit/?id=5ce61f48171c9b95e8b89e0d2c53a7bfbeb9ac93 [20:52] ochosi: it's still not ideal, check xfce bug 7373, that was reopened [20:52] Launchpad bug 7373 in slocate (Debian) "CAN-2003-0848: heap overflow in slocate" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/7373 [20:52] ubottu: no, not that one [20:52] mr_pouit: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) [20:52] oh, ok, i didn't notice it was re-opened [20:53] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7373 [20:53] bugzilla.xfce.org bug 7373 in general "g_file_new_for_uri ("network://") seems to slow down Thunar's startup" [Normal,Reopened] [20:55] Any Other Business - Anyone [20:55] Any one have anything to bring up? This is like an open mic time [20:57] Thank you all for attending this meeting. Next meeting will be Sunday June 5 at 22:00 UTC. [20:57] LEe [20:58] for open mic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykwqXuMPsoc [20:58] Oh, before I forget, apps for Oneiric? [20:58] Do we need further discussion on what is going into it? [20:58] I want applications decided as early as possible [20:58] micahg: this is not office-save :) [20:59] someone want to go ahead and email the ML to get the applications picked? [21:00] or are we all happy with what we have in natty and won't change anything except gdm to lightdm? [21:00] +1 I think [21:00] Great! [21:00] Glad we got a h [21:00] happy bunch of people here. [21:01] let's test this week! [21:01] Would we be able to add pastebinit? [21:01] mr_pouit: BTW, you can drop the browser plugin from parole as a recommends, Debian dropped and and so did we when I sync'd it [21:01] Unit193: as a default in a menu? [21:01] holstein: You still around? [21:02] charlie-tca: It's a cli app that's nice for support [21:02] drc: o/ [21:02] whats up? [21:02] \o/ [21:02] mr_pouit: actually, that poses a problem since we don't have a media plugin for the browser anymore :( [21:02] mr_pouit, micahg : can we add pastebinit as a default installed application without a menu item? [21:02] charlie-tca: sure, I think :) [21:03] You were talking about running a install test...was this a daily or periodic install test? [21:03] charlie-tca: although, we might have a space problem, thunderbird and firefox will bulk up this cycle (chrisccoulson is looking on how to slim them down), lightdm should give us some space though [21:03] We have a person in #xubuntu needs help with his installed 11.04 sticking at busybox [21:04] We aren't hurting yet for space, are we? [21:04] holstein: You were talking about running a install test...was this a daily or periodic install test? [21:04] yeah,we could add pastebinit if it's useful [21:05] drc: i have selfish motivations [21:05] it is useful, when troubleshooting [21:05] ubuntustudio is moving to XFCE [21:06] and thats why i want to have xubuntu up and running ASAP [21:06] im looking forward to US being able to leech from you guys for a bit ;) [21:06] holstein: Yeah, I read that somewhere. [21:06] yes, we should welcome UbuntuStudio over to Xubuntu this cycle! [21:06] and i hope soon we can be of the size team that can contribute back :) [21:07] and any help we can give them will be greatly appreciated, too. [21:07] micahg: don't speak about that, I still don't know why the upstream dev decided to drop it :[ [21:07] yeah, we are really excited about the switch [21:07] And this is a good reminder that what we do does affect more than just Xubuntu. [21:08] mr_pouit: ok, well if it used mozilla specific interfaces, that would be a good reason, if it was pure NPAPI, no idea [21:10] xfce bug 7373 [21:10] xfce bug 7373 in general "g_file_new_for_uri ("network://") seems to slow down Thunar's startup" [Normal,Reopened] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7373 [21:10] \o/ [21:10] Don't forget about the BusyBox user in #xubuntu (I have no idea how to help him, or I would) [21:11] That's right. mr_pouit has about a two to three minute lag, so I wanted to make sure we didn't miss anything from him before ending [21:12] It drops to busybox if it can't boot anything else [21:13] He is dropping to busybox every few boots [21:13] If someone could help him out, it would be great [21:13] I know enough to suggest an fsck [21:14] Okay, I will get these minutes written up asap, and we will see everybody again on Sunday [21:14] Thanks for coming [21:15] mr_pouit: thanks for putting with us with that lag of yours. [21:20] yeah, sorry /o\ [21:21] np, [21:21] no problem [21:21] As long as we know to wait long enough, it works :-) === pleia2_ is now known as pleia2 [23:27] charlie-tca: still around? [23:28] yes [23:28] i'm considering darkening the panel background a bit in greybird, what do you think about that? [23:29] (menus would stay the same color) [23:29] I think it will be harder to use [23:29] I will have to go back to clearlooks then [23:29] in what respect? [23:30] The contrast becomes lower, I think is the words [23:30] mm, not sure i get what you mean [23:30] but I am not sure. I could not use bluebird for more than an hour or so, [23:30] it was too dark [23:30] ok [23:31] would you mind trying what i'm proposing? [23:31] sure, always willing to try [23:31] and sometimes willing to say it is good, for most users, too. [23:31] k, i'll hack together a new panel.rc and post it for you in a sec [23:31] Okay [23:33] I only seen one or two compaints on greybird so far, but then again, they never complained about bluebird either until greybird came out. [23:33] what complaints did you see? [23:33] too dark, hard to read the information on it [23:33] which made no sense to me [23:34] and when asked to clarify, they go away [23:34] hmm [23:34] ok, that's not really the kind of criticism i'm looking for :) [23:34] I know. But if they refuse to respond when questioned about it, I don't really count it as meaningful. [23:35] mhm [23:35] this is the panel.rc [23:35] http://pastebin.com/pmigKJQg [23:35] you know what you have to do to use it, right? [23:35] no? [23:35] k [23:35] explain again, please [23:36] copy it to /usr/share/greybird/gtk-2.0/apps [23:36] and then run "xfce4-panel --restart" [23:36] okay [23:36] that should do the trick [23:36] awwh, fail [23:36] copy it to "/usr/share/themes/greybird/gtk-2.0/apps [23:37] that sounds right [23:38] it most likely needs some more tweaking on the prelight and selected colors [23:38] i mainly focussed on the panel-bg color for now [23:42] looks too dark to me [23:42] weather clouds blank out, timer is invisible again, [23:42] so the font gets hard to read or what's the problem? [23:42] users will complain that the text is too bright [23:42] no, some of the icons wash out [23:43] would you mind posting a screenshot? [23:43] for me, the text is bright, but easily readable [23:43] i can darken the text as well, that's no problem [23:43] I will screenshot the panel [23:43] k, thanks [23:44] then it's easier for me to get what you mean :) [23:46] http://imagebin.org/155982 [23:46] but the images are brighter than on my screen [23:46] dim the left icon (magnifying glass) and weather and timer bar a lot [23:47] They aren't really brightly visible [23:47] the magnifying glass is appfinder [23:48] i think the standard logo for the menu would be ok (it's a lot brighter) [23:48] right, but it is almost faded out in reality [23:48] yeah, i understand [23:48] the weather icon is problematic, i agree [23:48] It doesn't work if only some things are visible, though [23:48] users can put anything on the panel [23:48] hmm, yeah, but they can always put something on the panel that has the same color as the panel [23:49] and that *never* works [23:49] and the stupid timer Is that black bar between the mixer and the weather [23:49] true [23:49] yeah, i didn't increase the contrast for the timer [23:49] the timer is fixable [23:49] okay [23:49] appfinder is also fixable [23:49] the main problem would be the weather plugin i guess [23:49] like I say, users will probably like it, if the text is dimmed a bit [23:50] so the text is too bright now? [23:50] and the selection is darkened [23:50] mhm, yeah, the selection needs more contrast, i agree [23:50] text is too bright for most people, I think [23:50] k [23:50] I can't say for sure, I could use it this way, myself. [23:51] It just seems bright to me [23:51] hmm, i just checked, it's not really white [23:51] let me shoot the bottom panels and see what it does [23:51] i actually thought it would be FFFFFF, but it's F5F5F5 [23:52] my clock is FFFFE0 [23:53] mm, slightly yellowish [23:54]