[00:02] <rbelem> shadeslayer, apachelogger, http://www.pcworld.com/article/228975/htc_desire_hd_hacked_to_run_ubuntu_natively.html
[00:13] <JontheEchidna> news on the tarball situation: http://paste.ubuntu.com/615116/
[00:17] <DarkwingDuck> Grrrr, I need a new phone
[00:23] <JontheEchidna> Grrrr, kdepimlibs in new queue is blocking merge progress
[00:23] <JontheEchidna> ScottK^
[01:59] <debfx> ScottK: these patches touch the same code:
[01:59] <debfx> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/qt/ubuntu/view/head:/debian/patches/kubuntu_23_arm_memory_barriers.patch
[01:59] <debfx> http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-kde/qt/qt4-x11.git;a=blob;f=debian/patches/x-0003-Use-GCC-intrinsics-for-armv6-atomic-operations.patch;h=e5ca14df456b667fe5ab51709560c86ea34408f9;hb=HEAD
[02:00] <debfx> do we want that patch from debian?
[02:41] <shadeslayer> rbelem: yeah, i saw that :D
[02:42] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: and calligra is WIP, figured out build deps at night but had no internet connection to test build
[03:20] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: yofel Quintasan_ alot of the build deps are outdated, this will take alot more time than expected
[03:21] <shadeslayer> and a couple of them are completely broken
[04:56] <c2tarun> is kde 4.6.3 backported to lucid?
[05:25] <ScottK> debfx: I think we want ours.
[05:25] <ScottK> c2tarun: No and it won't be, at least not by the Kubuntu team.
[05:26] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: I have to leave for the airport in 4 hours and I haven't slept nor packed yet.  I'll try to squeeze it in.
[06:21] <JontheEchidna> "echidnaman expired from team"
[06:21] <JontheEchidna> my powers are melting!
[06:22] <JontheEchidna> meeeeeltiiiiing
[06:22] <ulysses> isn't it too late there?:P
[06:26] <JontheEchidna> 1:30, but I am not yet employed for the summer so it doesn't matter too much
[06:27] <ulysses> I have an exam at 9:00, now it's 7:27
[07:22] <Quintasan> \o
[07:22] <ulysses> time to go to robotics exam
[07:22] <ulysses> o/
[07:23] <Quintasan> good luck
[08:03]  * Quintasan goes out, damn you PE
[08:29] <jussi> sigh. things are borked in natty :(
[08:30] <jussi> I cant seem to get dual head working :(
[09:30] <debfx> Quintasan: you don't need to send your mails 4 times :P
[11:05] <ScottK> pimlibs out of New.  Have fun merging.
[11:20] <c2tarun> I have two kubuntu's on my system, one maverick and one natty. I am not able to start my natty. System is freezing on kubuntu splash screen. :(
[11:22] <ulysses> hello ksmanis 
[11:23] <ksmanis> ulysses: hey
[11:23] <ulysses> I have kcm-grub2 0.5, and when I try to remove older kernels, I get this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ulysses/kepek/kerneltorles.png
[11:24] <ulysses> some character encoding error in the window
[11:24] <ksmanis> oh
[11:25] <ksmanis> how does your /boot/grub/grub.cfg look like?
[11:29] <ulysses> http://paste.kde.org/76675/
[11:29] <ulysses> It's the default, I didn't modify it
[11:32] <ksmanis> ulysses: thanks. can you also post the result of "sudo file /boot/grub/grub.cfg"?
[11:32] <ksmanis> to see the encoding of the file
[11:32] <ulysses> /boot/grub/grub.cfg: UTF-8 Unicode English text
[11:37] <ksmanis> ulysses: I'll take cafe of it, thanks for reporting
[11:37] <ksmanis> btw what's that envelope icon on your tray? kmail?
[11:38] <ulysses> Message Indicator plasmoid
[11:57] <apachelogger> debfx: did you port our stuff from qt-kde-team/1/debian-qt-kde.mk to qt-kde-team/2/debian-qt-kde.mk?
[11:58] <debfx> apachelogger: dhmk uses the kde dh sequence
[11:58] <debfx> so I've only dropped the maintainer check
[11:59] <apachelogger> no idea what that means, sounds good though
[11:59]  * apachelogger ponders dropping xine stuff from kdebase-runtime
[12:00] <apachelogger> and if people come after me I'll throw the legacy-crap-unmaintained-warning at them
[12:00]  * apachelogger unbreaks stuff
[12:03] <debfx> if you want to drop it please try to convince debian first
[12:03] <apachelogger> I do not reason with debian about upstream decisions :P
[12:04] <apachelogger> why would I do that?
[12:04] <debfx> ah you mean dropping it upstream?
[12:04] <apachelogger> why of course
[12:04] <apachelogger> I'd not drop stuff downstream :P
[12:05] <apachelogger> then people from the debian upstream that work on the kde upstream come and bitch about upstream having right of superior choice :P
[12:06] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: we'll need a script to move bugs from old soruce to new source WRT KDE 4.7
[12:21] <apachelogger> debfx: do you have time to do a quick test?
[12:23] <debfx> apachelogger: sure
[12:23] <apachelogger> debfx: install libcanberra-pulse and sound-theme-freedesktop and try the speaker setup in kcmshell4 phonon
[12:23] <apachelogger> in particular the test sound stuff
[12:23] <apachelogger> should be working with those two
[12:27] <debfx> apachelogger: do I need to restart pulseaudio?
[12:29] <debfx> works fine
[12:29] <apachelogger> groovy
[12:29] <apachelogger> now what do we make those
[12:29] <apachelogger> I'd say recommends for the plugins as they are not necessary to the kde runtime other than to get that setup working
[12:29] <apachelogger> the sound theme ought to be depends as it will be depends  in libcanberra0, as that is what the spec requires
[12:30] <debfx> what is libcanberra used for?
[12:30] <apachelogger> event sounds
[12:30] <apachelogger> a bit like knotify
[12:30] <apachelogger> actually a lot like knotify
[12:30] <apachelogger> but with a spec ^^
[12:31] <apachelogger> debfx: http://0pointer.de/lennart/projects/libcanberra/#overview
[12:31] <apachelogger> it is like knotify merged with phonon ^^
[12:37] <CIA-51> [kdebase-runtime] Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * apachelogger@ubuntu.com-20110531113722-jrw2jlpaghpahn8x * debian/ (changelog control) (log message trimmed)
[12:37] <CIA-51> * Make kdebase-runtime recommend on libcanberra-pulse | libcanberra-gstreamer -
[12:37] <CIA-51> Much like Phonon, Canberra has backends, so kdebase-runtime needs to recommend
[12:37] <jussi> apachelogger: so, kphotify? :D
[12:37] <apachelogger> jussi: exactly, you should not use that name without a tm though
[12:38] <apachelogger> someone should go do some bug triage!
[12:38] <jussi> kphotify (tm) :D
[12:38] <apachelogger> better
[13:30] <apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: do we have a date for the meeting yet?
[13:30] <apachelogger> it appears jr too care of membership
[14:20] <Riddell> Quintasan: you pinged?
[14:21] <Quintasan> Riddell: yeah, mind if query?
[14:21] <Riddell> can do
[14:43] <txwikinger> apachelogger: ping
[16:13] <apachelogger> txwikinger: pong
[16:50] <debfx> networkmanager 0.9 has landed in oneiric, I guess that means the plasma widget doesn't work anymore
[17:00] <shadeslayer> debfx: yeah, thats a fair assumption
[17:02] <yofel> meaning I should make neon work on oneiric soon, would be trivial to check there..
[17:08] <DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: I will be sending that email out today.
[17:23] <ScottK> debfx: I think there's a knm branch that ~works with 0.9.
[17:23] <ScottK> We should probably go ahead and switch.
[17:26] <_Groo_> hi/2 all
[17:26] <_Groo_> im back :P
[17:27] <_Groo_> finally my main notebook is fixed :)
[17:28] <yofel> oh hey, long time no see :)
[17:32] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: How's merging going?  We're supposed to have an Alpha 1 on Thursday and we need to get stuff installable so the livefs will build ....
[17:33] <ScottK> Looks like nothing stuck in New.
[17:33] <JontheEchidna> We've got the core out of the way, mostly. kde4libs, kdebase-runtime, kdegraphics and kdebase out of the way.
[17:33] <debfx> ScottK: either that or we do it the fedora way
[17:33] <debfx> I'll upload bindings after the test build finishes
[17:33] <ScottK> debfx: What's that?
[17:34] <ScottK> (the fedora way)
[17:34] <JontheEchidna> about the only core package that need to be merged is kdebase-workspace
[17:34] <JontheEchidna> then we have kdemultimedia, kdeedu, etc
[17:34] <ScottK> That one will probably hit New too.
[17:34] <debfx> ScottK: afaik nm0.9 compatibility hacks in kdebase-workspace
[17:34] <ScottK> Ah.  Right.
[17:34] <ScottK> I read somewhere we don't want to do it that way.
[17:34] <ScottK> I think the upstream branch is better now.
[17:35] <ScottK> But that's just from reading planet kde, so may be completely wrong.
[17:35] <JontheEchidna> If this testbuild works I'll be ready to upload pim-runtime, and I have kdeutils ready to testbuild right after
[17:35] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: 4.6 rc?
[17:35] <JontheEchidna> 4.4.11.1
[17:35] <debfx> we could delay pim until after alpha1
[17:35]  * yofel has kdeplasma-addons almost done
[17:36] <JontheEchidna> It looks like things are coming together with the merges, at any rate
[17:36] <JontheEchidna> we could probably get done by today, maybe wednesday
[17:36] <ScottK> We just need to get it done quick so we can get some images to spin.
[17:37] <ScottK> That should work.
[17:37] <ScottK> Today is better, of course.
[17:37] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: oh, did you see this? http://paste.ubuntu.com/615116/
[17:38] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: I hadn't.  Nice.
[17:39] <JontheEchidna> yeah, I figured you might not have, what with rushing around getting ready to travel
[17:39]  * ScottK starts to wonder if we should just skip beta 1.
[17:39] <JontheEchidna> Oh, I have no doubt that we won't get beta 1 packaged
[17:40] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Unless you aren't busy with other stuff, I think debfx's suggestion of delaying on pim/pim-runtime makes sense.  
[17:40] <JontheEchidna> yeah
[17:40] <ScottK> It's not connected to anything else.
[17:40] <debfx> meh bindings ftbfs
[17:40] <debfx> http://paste.kde.org/76783/
[17:40] <JontheEchidna> I just uploaded 4.4.11.1-2ubuntu1 since I had it done, but I won't grab kdepim proper
[17:48] <debfx> aha, that's fixed in debian
[17:55] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: There's a qtzeitgeist in source New at the moment from Debian that overwrites some of our binaries in libqzeitgeist.  In your copious free time, could you figure out what's up with that and let cjwatson know if he should accept it.
[17:56] <debfx> ScottK: I've uploaded it
[17:57] <debfx> it should replace our qtzeitgeist package
[17:57] <JontheEchidna> sounds like debfx has it covered ;-)
[17:57] <JontheEchidna> I'm grabbing kdebase-workspace
[17:58] <ScottK> debfx: Thanks.
[17:58] <JontheEchidna> btw, the kdeadmin merge in bzr can be sponsored now that merged kdepimlibs is no longer blocking
[17:58] <_Groo_> anyone working on kde-pim 4.6 rc2?
[17:58] <JontheEchidna> actually, Quintasan could upload it himself
[17:59] <ScottK> _Groo_: Not at the moment.  Trying to get 4.6.3 merged from Debian and uploaded.
[18:00] <_Groo_> ScottK: i could have a go at it
[18:00] <_Groo_> or should i wait for 4.6.3?
[18:00] <ScottK> I think we want to wait for pim 4.6 final to put it in the archive.  An update for the experimental PPA seems like a good idea (if it's not there already, didn't check)
[18:03] <_Groo_> ScottK: ok then :)
[18:04] <_Groo_> what about 4.7 beta1? anyone working on it? or waiting on debians?
[18:04] <yofel> waiting on the merges to be finished
[18:04] <_Groo_> yofel: k
[18:08] <JontheEchidna> we'll probably skip beta 1
[18:09] <JontheEchidna> since we sort've are waitng on debian also
[18:10] <JontheEchidna> there's always project neon in the meantime, though :)
[18:15] <yofel> true, I guess we can do some package sorting for beta1 so we already have something we can use for b2
[18:15] <yofel> I hope they'll stick to the tar layout at least
[18:16] <yofel> thinking of it, updating the dep-graph will be fun
[18:28] <JontheEchidna> they won't stick with the tarball layout, is the thing
[18:29]  * debfx gets increasingly angry at kdebindings
[18:29] <debfx> hardcodes python2.6 ...
[18:29] <yofel> for 4.7 I mean, after that we'll have the next splitups ofc
[18:29] <yofel> which will probably mess up the 4.7.X releases again :/
[18:30] <JontheEchidna> I've been told on good authority that the tarball layout will change every pre release up until 4.7.0
[18:31] <yofel> *sigh*
[18:32] <JontheEchidna> here's the whole conversation: http://paste.ubuntu.com/615116/
[18:32] <JontheEchidna> (which I almost spelled with a k) ;-)
[18:38] <yofel> I somehow find the fedora way interesting, doesn't dpkg support multiple tarballs per source these days? ^^
[18:38] <ScottK> It does, but it's still somewhat annoying to deal with.
[18:39] <yofel> well, as long as the debian/rules files don't end up being posted on TheDailyWTF I could live with it
[18:39] <JontheEchidna> IMO the biggest problem here is that whatever we do, Debian may do things differently
[18:40] <yofel> s/may/will/
[18:40] <kubotu> yofel: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"
[18:40] <JontheEchidna> yeah, we could sink manpower in to it even if they don't want to, but that'll great tons more work later when we try to merge
[18:40] <yofel> esp. considering they're not even touching the current tars
[18:40] <JontheEchidna> we've really been handed a crap sandwhich here
[18:44] <apachelogger> lets switch to unity!
[18:44] <yofel> let's ignore apachelogger for the rest of the day
[18:45]  * apachelogger wonders how unity looks on the n900
[18:45] <yofel> that would actually be somewhat tempting ^^
[18:45] <apachelogger> actually I had it half way running already
[18:45] <apachelogger> the -2d version
[18:46] <apachelogger> when I was debugging gles breakage
[18:50] <apachelogger> someone broke me route
[18:50] <apachelogger> great job there
[18:51] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: have you seen http://i.imgur.com/A7QZW.png ?
[18:52] <apachelogger> yes
[18:52] <JontheEchidna> pretty neat, seeing KDE on TV
[18:52] <apachelogger> not so neat that it is fedora :P
[18:52] <JontheEchidna> Without KDE, Doctor Who could not be made. :P
[18:52] <apachelogger> that proofs linus wrong quite a bit
[18:53] <bambee> evening
[18:54]  * yofel wonders when linux 3.0 will land in oneiric ^^
[18:55] <bambee> without KDE, the movie "social network" could not be made (there is a moment where Mark Zuckerberg uses kde 2) :P
[18:56] <bambee> s/social network/the social network/
[18:56] <kubotu> bambee meant: "without KDE, the movie "the social network" could not be made (there is a moment where Mark Zuckerberg uses kde 2) :P"
[18:56] <bambee> kubotu: shut up
[18:56] <yofel> kubotu--
[18:57] <kubotu> bstrds
[18:58] <yofel> lol
[18:59] <ScottK> Avatar was made using Kubuntu, IIRC.
[18:59] <apachelogger> avatar is running kubuntu
[18:59] <apachelogger> me@avatar:~$ lsb_release -d                                                                                                             
[18:59] <apachelogger> Description:    Ubuntu 11.04
[19:00] <yofel> ^^
[19:00] <txwikinger> apachelogger: The last method you gave me to get debugs for the kded4 problem, prevents it to occur
[19:01] <debfx> oh kubotu gets angry
[19:02] <apachelogger> txwikinger: what was the last and what was the problem?
[19:02] <txwikinger> The problem was the defunc processes
[19:02] <apachelogger> ohright, sow hat was the last command?
[19:02] <apachelogger> something strace, no?
[19:03] <txwikinger> the last debug was strace -ff -F -o kded.strace kded4
[19:04] <txwikinger> I guess I could use it as a workaroud.. .just send it to /dev/null instead :)
[19:05] <apachelogger> lol
[19:05] <apachelogger> txwikinger: if you leave -F out of it, what happens?
[19:05] <apachelogger> equally if you leave -F in but -ff out
[19:10] <txwikinger> I will check that
[19:13] <_Groo_> no pls, not unity :D i use KDE ;)
[19:15] <yofel> _Groo_: make your desktop look like this then: http://people.ubuntu.com/~yofel/pics/plasma1.png :P
[19:16] <_Groo_> yofel: its easy, just crearte some panels and move them around :D
[19:16] <yofel> guess what I did :P
[19:16] <_Groo_> but i like the mac look i have a lower fancy panel, that i love
[19:16] <_Groo_> yofel: yeah i know you did
[19:17] <txwikinger> apachelogger: the -F left off seems to do the same .. but I will leave it running for a while to confirm
[19:17] <_Groo_> yofel: first i read blogs.. second everyone who uses KDE would notice it in a sec
[19:17]  * claydoh wants activities that can be with panels disabled
[19:17] <yofel> true
[19:17] <claydoh> on a per-activity basis
[19:17]  * txwikinger wants snow back
[19:18]  * claydoh kinda agrees with txwikinger, as he just had to mow his hilly yard
[19:18] <txwikinger> claydoh: 30C/55%
[19:18]  * _Groo_ wants a zoom plugin that allow mouse rolls
[19:19]  * _Groo_ and areas like the old advanced zoom in compiz
[19:19] <yofel> heh, that's what we had yesterday here ^^
[19:19] <txwikinger> yofel: where is here?
[19:20] <yofel> southwest germany
[19:20] <txwikinger> Ah
[19:20] <txwikinger> Did not remember southwest Germany being so humid
[19:20] <claydoh> txwikinger: we had that here in Maine yesterday, now way was I gonna cut grass then
[19:21] <yofel> usually it's not, actually the last few weeks have been abnormally dry here to the point that people are wishing for rain
[19:21] <claydoh> its pushing 26 here
[19:21] <txwikinger> claydoh: the worst... houses here have no real windows for opening.,. and we have no a/c
[19:22] <txwikinger> yofel: Here was lots of flooding during May
[19:22] <claydoh> heh, I put our ac in yesterday 
[19:22]  * txwikinger wants a house with large windows with ability to open
[19:22] <yofel> txwikinger: where is here? There was some mention even in our news though that the US had floods
[19:23] <txwikinger> yofel: Canada
[19:23] <claydoh> txwikinger: I have seen a/c units that are 'portable' with a small vent going to a window, similar to a clothes dryer hose
[19:23] <txwikinger> The Prairies had lots of floods and Quebec too
[19:24] <txwikinger> claydoh: Yeah. I have one of those, but the bedroom does not have a sliding window in which you can fix the hose
[19:24] <claydoh> that sucks
[19:24] <txwikinger> yofel: Ontario had as much rain in May as usually for the whole year, but no extreme flodding
[19:25] <yofel> I've been thinking about getting one like that, but electricity isn't exactly cheap :/
[19:25] <yofel> txwikinger: hmpf. We had like 10% of the rain we should have had in May
[19:25] <txwikinger> Tonight we will have thunderstorms, hopefully it will get cooler after that
[19:26] <yofel> you really start to notice that in the water levels of the smaller rivers
[19:26] <txwikinger> Supposedly there is a cold front coming 
[19:26]  * txwikinger hopes for thunderstorms with snow
[19:26] <txwikinger> claydoh: Aspen still has the slopes open.. they got snow last weekend
[19:27] <claydoh> I like snow, but not that much :)
[19:27]  * txwikinger loved this winter
[19:27] <txwikinger> Snow well into April.. that was nice
[19:28] <apachelogger> ScottK: ping
[19:28] <ScottK> apachelogger: pong
[19:28]  * apachelogger forgot
[19:28] <apachelogger> oh right
[19:29]  * txwikinger should go and work at the beach
[19:29] <apachelogger> ScottK: regarding kubuntu-low-fat: no krunner at all or krunner with all stuff deactivated except launching apps?
[19:29]  * apachelogger notes that qalculate is causing like 5 mib of heap usage 
[19:29] <claydoh> it was about 10-11 years ago this past weekend that we got stuck in snow/ice while running down logging roads in northern Maine, and had to walk 7.5 miles to the nearest phone
[19:29] <ScottK> I'm not much of a krunner user, so probably not the best one to say.  What's the impact of leaving app launching?
[19:30] <apachelogger> ScottK: krunner is still running ^^
[19:30] <apachelogger> not particularly fat if we turn everything else off
[19:30] <apachelogger> but never the less it still got pixmaps in memory etc.
[19:31] <yofel> If nothing else handles alt+f2 do leave that enabled at least
[19:31] <apachelogger> perhaps
[19:31] <apachelogger> leave it enabled
[19:31] <claydoh> the kmenu has the search function, is that tied to krunner?
[19:31] <txwikinger> yeah alt-f2 is useful
[19:31] <ScottK> I think launching is a very important use case.   I'd leave just that enabled.
[19:31] <apachelogger> but place a desktop file in the user home
[19:31] <apachelogger> that way they can easily disable it via the autostart kcm
[19:32] <apachelogger> claydoh: yes, but not the executable
[19:32] <apachelogger> it uses the same library though etc.
[19:33]  * apachelogger thinks JontheEchidna wants to close bug 790801
[19:42] <CIA-51> [kubuntu-low-fat-settings] Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * apachelogger@ubuntu.com-20110531184241-lrahl4lf0o60gxd4 * share/config/krunnerrc add krunnerc with only shell and apps enabled
[19:51] <debfx> apachelogger: couldn't we move those KUBUNTU_DESKTOP_POT exports from the packages to pkg-kde-tools?
[19:54] <CIA-51> [kubuntu.oneiric] Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * apachelogger@ubuntu.com-20110531185401-ec696ghzxuygmygw * kubuntu-common comment--
[19:59] <apachelogger> debfx: yes
[19:59] <apachelogger> there is a bug somewhere about that
[19:59] <apachelogger> probably assigned to me even
[20:05] <debfx> apachelogger: and will you take up your assignment? :P
[20:05] <_Groo_> txwikinger: here i can go to the beach, but i cant work there
[20:05] <_Groo_> txwikinger: my notebook wouldnt last 2 secs
[20:05] <_Groo_> txwikinger: or my life FTW
[20:06] <ulysses> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bug/749379
[20:06] <ulysses> this?^^
[20:06] <txwikinger> bah.. beach has nice breeze
[20:06] <apachelogger> debfx: eventually
[20:07] <debfx> ulysses: that's a different issue
[20:09] <ScottK> debfx: You need to look at your pimlibs conflicts.
[20:09] <ScottK> Some of them don't sit well with our pim-runtime being 4.4.
[20:09] <ScottK> Package: libakonadi-kcal4
[20:10] <ScottK> Breaks: kdepim-runtime (<< 4:4.4.60), akonadi-kde (<< 4:4.1.80)
[20:10] <ScottK> Not a happy situation.
[20:11] <debfx> ScottK: that's indeed not ideal
[20:12] <ScottK> That's causing mass uninstallabillity in KDE packages ATM, so please have a look.
[20:15] <debfx> eh why did that package have Replaces: kdepim-runtime (<< 4:4.4.60) before
[20:16] <ScottK> Dunno.  You uploaded it ....
[20:16]  * ScottK suspects some merge magic at work.
[20:16] <debfx> before the merge
[20:16] <debfx> I added the breaks because replaces alone is wrong
[20:16] <ScottK> How did that possibly work then.
[20:17] <ScottK> No, replaces alone is fine if you're just overwriting files.
[20:18] <debfx> yes, replacing files is done with breaks and replaces
[20:19] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: I can't :)
[20:19]  * Quintasan has no PC ATM
[20:19] <JontheEchidna> ah, kk
[20:19] <Quintasan> I'd appreciate it if someone could upload it
[20:20] <ScottK> debfx: Sigh.  No.  Please show me where this is documented then.
[20:21] <debfx> ScottK: i'm sure it's in the debian policy
[20:21] <ScottK> Breaks/Replaces is instead of Conflicts/Replaces.
[20:21] <ScottK> debfx: I'm sure it's not.
[20:21] <debfx> ScottK: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/footnotes.html#f53
[20:22] <ScottK> The footnotes aren't normative.
[20:22] <ScottK> I can see where there are advantages to this in some cases.
[20:22] <ScottK> I don't think this is one of them.
[20:23] <ScottK> In any case, either bump down the version to one we have (and make sure it doesn't ship the files that were moved) or drop the breaks.
[20:24] <ScottK> Either one solves the installability problem.
[20:24] <ScottK> I'm more interested in it being sovled than how.
[20:24] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: I'm waist-deep in kdebase-workspace right now, but if nobody has gotten around to uploading your merge, I will once I am done
[20:25] <CIA-51> [kubuntu-mobile.oneiric] Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * apachelogger@ubuntu.com-20110531192441-kg47lhttinumc4nf * mobile dont seed blogilo on mobile, that thing is so not usable on a small screen it makes my head hurt from just thinking about it
[20:25] <JontheEchidna> probably in another 2 or 3 hours
[20:26] <ScottK> debfx: Looks like libakonadi-contact4 is affected too. 
[20:26] <ScottK> I think that's the only other one.
[20:27] <CIA-51> [kubuntu-mobile.oneiric] Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * apachelogger@ubuntu.com-20110531192639-6yzfwefnrgqaf2ey * STRUCTURE base mobile on standard instead of kubuntu-common>desktop-common>standard, the commons contain all sorts of useless stuff
[20:30] <debfx> ScottK: that problem can happen with every file that is moved between packages (it's another question if it will happen often in practice)
[20:30] <debfx> also it says "Normally, Breaks should be used in conjunction with Replaces."
[20:30] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: thanks
[20:30] <ScottK> debfx: Right.  The problem in this case is the lack of sufficient version in the archive makes it very problematic.
[20:31] <ScottK> We did Replaces without Breaks for a very long time and I don't recall ever having problems with it.
[20:31] <debfx> ScottK: sure I'm investigating when that replaces got added
[20:31] <ScottK> Thanks.
[20:32] <apachelogger> replaces is cool
[20:33] <debfx> "Bump replaces on KDE 4:4.4.0 to 4:4.4.60 since we're doing this split a major KDE version later than Debian"
[20:33] <debfx> so we can probably downgrade the version
[20:34] <CIA-51> [kubuntu-mobile.oneiric] Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * apachelogger@ubuntu.com-20110531193445-v3293wsqx24n9ti8 * mobile fill mobile seed with stuff we need
[20:35] <debfx> we should really prepare all KDE SC upgrades in a ppa
[20:36]  * Quintasan hands Master of Naps badge to rbelem
[20:36] <yofel> well, this isn't really an upgrade, so nobody thought of it I guess
[20:36] <debfx> yofel: it is a 4.6.2 -> 4.6.3 upgrade
[20:36] <debfx> ScottK: any other problems in kdepimlibs?
[20:37] <yofel> ah right, we still had 4.6.2 in the archive
[20:37] <ScottK> debfx: Not that I found.  I was investigating general KDE uninstallability at cjwatson's request.
[20:37] <apachelogger> feature
[20:38] <jjesse> ScottK is kde dev your full time or do you have a different full time job that allows you to dev full time?
[20:38] <ScottK> jjesse: I don't dev nearly full time.
[20:38] <ScottK> I multi-task well.
[20:38] <ScottK> I'm currently sitting in a $WORK meeting.
[20:38] <jjesse> wow must be very well, thought you did this full time
[20:39] <ulysses> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerUsers/Unity/Options
[20:39] <ScottK> That just means I talk a lot.
[20:39] <ulysses> bah
[20:39] <debfx> ScottK: there were quite a few package name transition so until all kde* is rebuilt many things are uninstallable
[20:39] <ScottK> Well that's the one I found that was a packaging bug.
[20:39]  * ScottK wonders how JontheEchidna is doing on -workspace.
[20:39] <Quintasan> ulysses: That's SOOOO power user related
[20:39] <Quintasan> lol
[20:40] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: another few hours, including testbuilding
[20:40] <apachelogger> you nite
[20:40] <ScottK> OK.  Cool.
[20:41] <yofel> oh yeah, we got a new power users team. Do they do anything that we're not already doing?
[20:41] <JontheEchidna> I've just gotten done merging debian/patches
[20:41]  * apachelogger has no idea what they do
[20:41] <apachelogger> what do we do?
[20:42] <Quintasan> apachelogger: We do the most awesome KDE distribution
[20:42] <Quintasan> Isn't that enough
[20:42] <Quintasan> ?
[20:43] <apachelogger> so the power users team is doing the most awesome kde distribution too?
[20:43] <Daskreech> Someone is having an installer bug with large HDD in #kubuntu if anyone would like to address it
[20:43] <ScottK> apachelogger: They try to make Unity useful for people who've used a computer before.
[20:43] <apachelogger> Quintasan: why do we distribute a community anyway?
[20:43] <apachelogger> it is already distributed
[20:43] <apachelogger> ScottK: do they have too much spare time? :O
[20:44] <apachelogger> cause I could use a minion or two
[20:44] <apachelogger> !info akonadi-backend-sqlite oneiric
[20:44] <apachelogger> yay
[20:44] <apachelogger> seeeeeed
[20:44] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: do you know how well that backend is supposed to work? Might make sense to use it on the desktop if it's usable
[20:45] <JontheEchidna> or at least use the ODBC backend since we're stuck with virtuoso
[20:45] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: no desktop
[20:45] <apachelogger> nonono
[20:45] <Quintasan> >virtuoso
[20:45] <apachelogger> by upstream request
[20:45] <Quintasan> it is so bad
[20:45] <debfx> ScottK: kdepimlibs uploaded
[20:45] <apachelogger> it is meant for mobile only
[20:45] <debfx> kdebindings is still building
[20:45]  * Quintasan bets it is better than vituoso
[20:45] <ScottK> debfx: Thanks.
[20:45] <Quintasan> virtuoso even
[20:46] <CIA-51> [kubuntu-mobile.oneiric] Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * apachelogger@ubuntu.com-20110531194600-ep0o78jrr1vazf8p * mobile seed akonadi sqlite explicitly
[20:47] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: how about odbc? Then we'd only have to run virtuoso rather than virtuoso and mysql
[20:47] <ScottK> apachelogger: I think they finally realized that they aren't in Canonical's target audience and if they want Ubuntu to work for them, they'll actually have to do something.
[20:47] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: ask volker in #akonadi
[20:48] <JontheEchidna> maybe once I am done with this merge
[20:48] <apachelogger> ScottK: poor fellas, maybe I should repost my trololo post about how kubuntu is superior to ubuntu :P
[20:48] <ScottK> apachelogger: Wait until after you beg rickspencer3 for hardware.
[20:48] <JontheEchidna> oh, internesting. Debian has a plasma-netbook.desktop that they install to autostart in the plasma-netbook package
[20:48] <apachelogger> right
[20:48] <JontheEchidna> s/internesting/interesting
[20:49] <rbelem> Quintasan, :-D
[20:49] <JontheEchidna> how do we handle that?
[20:49] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: We have a patch.
[20:49] <ScottK> jr did some magic.
[20:49] <JontheEchidna> so copy over the .desktop file, but don't install it?
[20:49] <ScottK> It's only interesting for first run.
[20:49] <ScottK> After that you can control it via a kcm.
[20:49] <ScottK> Sure.
[20:49] <JontheEchidna> k
[20:50] <Quintasan> rbelem: Now you have to live up to the reputation :D
[20:50] <Quintasan> jr doing magic = serious business
[20:51] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna, ScottK: just put one with hidden=true in kds' autostart
[20:51] <apachelogger> if there is not already
[20:51] <debfx> meh, plasma-widget-quickaccess FTBFS
[20:51] <debfx> JontheEchidna: aren't you upstream? :P
[20:51] <Quintasan> lol
[20:52] <ScottK> apachelogger: We ought not mess up the existing magic without making sure we have a new way that works.
[20:52] <Quintasan> debfx++
[20:52] <JontheEchidna> debfx: kinda sorta
[20:52] <JontheEchidna> I've not touched in in over a year
[20:52] <ScottK> apachelogger: Just installing the desktop file won't do it as we don't always want it to run.
[20:52] <Quintasan> Do we really want it? :/
[20:52] <apachelogger> (udisks:21262): udisks-WARNING **: Couldn't call GetAll() to get properties for /org/freedesktop/UDisks/devices/mmcblk1p1: Disconnection or out-of-memory
[20:52] <apachelogger> zomg
[20:52] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger has been meaning to kick it from the archive every cycle for the past 3 cycles
[20:52] <apachelogger> ScottK: hidden=true!
[20:53] <ScottK> That won't make it autostart?
[20:53] <ScottK> Seems pointless to install it then.
[20:53] <CIA-51> [kubuntu.oneiric] Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * apachelogger@ubuntu.com-20110531195340-s13de9ulyxvou4su * desktop bye bye plasma-widget-quickaccess - unmaintained, unwanted, buggy...
[20:54] <apachelogger> Quintasan: go cleanup afte rme
[20:54] <apachelogger> meta package needs rebuild, plasma config in kds needs update etc.
[20:54] <Quintasan> apachelogger: I have no PC lol
[20:54] <debfx> JontheEchidna: but the kde-look.org page says "0.9 is also coming soonish, so stay tuned!" :D
[20:54] <Quintasan> no keys, no pbuilders, no shells
[20:55] <JontheEchidna> right, but the 0.9 branch is a gigantic pile of fail
[20:55] <JontheEchidna> and that was back in 2009 :P
[20:55]  * Quintasan pokes JontheEchidna with "It's going to be so much fun" stick
[20:55] <Quintasan> You're gonna love maintaining it
[20:56] <Quintasan> :P
[20:56] <JontheEchidna> the applet refuses to open if you open the file properties dialog from a context menu
[20:56] <JontheEchidna> the context menu itself is half black with no text
[20:56] <JontheEchidna> because of some dumb crap with proxywidgets
[20:56] <Quintasan> IT'S A FEATURE
[20:56]  * Quintasan blames upstream
[20:56] <Quintasan> oh wait...
[20:56] <JontheEchidna> the 0.9 branch was a failure
[20:56] <apachelogger> monkey man!
[20:56] <Quintasan> what?
[20:57]  * Quintasan doesn't follow apachelogger's thinking
[20:57] <apachelogger> bug 790875
[20:58] <DarkwingDuck> ROFL
[20:58] <apachelogger> made me think of bug 490506
[20:58] <debfx> that should be critical!
[20:59] <DarkwingDuck> It is not...
[20:59] <DarkwingDuck> s/not/now
[20:59] <DarkwingDuck> bug 790875
[20:59] <Quintasan> what the...
[21:00] <apachelogger> much better
[21:00] <Quintasan> OH GOD
[21:00] <rbelem> :-D
[21:01] <Quintasan> I can't belive it :O
[21:01] <Quintasan> believe even
[21:01] <apachelogger> ScottK: any idea what could be the problem when germinate refuses to use akonadi sqlite?
[21:01] <debfx> Quintasan: are you working on a fix?
[21:01] <apachelogger> oh perhaps it is not built for armel
[21:01] <Quintasan> debfx: yes
[21:02] <apachelogger> should be
[21:02] <apachelogger> strange
[21:02] <ScottK> apachelogger: In what package?
[21:02] <Quintasan> debfx: I will probably need moneyz for new RAMz if they decide they can't replace them for free
[21:02] <apachelogger> ScottK: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/akonadi/1.5.3-2ubuntu1/+build/2531523
[21:02] <DarkwingDuck> Quintasan: How long you going to be out of a PC?
[21:02] <ScottK> apachelogger: No, I mean the seed. 
[21:02] <apachelogger> where is akonadi-backend-mysql anyway?
[21:02] <apachelogger> ScottK: mobile
[21:02] <apachelogger> kubuntu-mobile.oneiric
[21:02] <DarkwingDuck> Why does akonadi use mysql?
[21:03] <Quintasan> DarkwingDuck: Depending on the dude, he told me they will look at it today and should have it done this week
[21:03] <ScottK> apachelogger: arch all.
[21:03] <DarkwingDuck> Quintasan: :/ That sounds like US Help services when they have no clue if it will be done within a month
[21:03] <ScottK> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/akonadi/1.5.3-2ubuntu1/+build/2531524
[21:04] <apachelogger> ScottK: oh, suppose I should add universe and multiverse
[21:04] <apachelogger> germinate is one argument demanding tool right there
[21:04] <ScottK> That'd help.
[21:04] <Quintasan> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
[21:05] <Quintasan> dohohohoh
[21:05]  * Quintasan just got an awesome hat
[21:05] <Quintasan> it is full of awesome
[21:06] <apachelogger> a fez?
[21:06] <Quintasan> nope
[21:06] <JontheEchidna> that top hat you wanted for UDS?
[21:06] <apachelogger> ScottK: yeah, that was the problem
[21:07] <apachelogger> great, upgrade broke my kde ^^
[21:07] <ScottK> Excellent.  Kubuntu marches on.
[21:08] <debfx> Quintasan: this hat: http://tf2wiki.net/w/images/7/7a/ToweringSoldier.png ?
[21:08] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: nah, I canceled the order since they did not bother with sending it to me
[21:08] <apachelogger> ScottK: fixing the preinstalls would be cool http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-mobile/daily-preinstalled/current/
[21:08] <Quintasan> debfx: this is full of awesome too
[21:08] <apachelogger> ah
[21:08] <ScottK> apachelogger: It would.  Hopefully NCommander will be ready to instruct us soon on this.
[21:08] <apachelogger> I found our mobile release images :D
[21:08] <apachelogger> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-mobile/releases/11.04/release/
[21:09] <JontheEchidna> Patch kubuntu_34_kdm_plymouth_transition.diff does not apply (enforce with -f)
[21:09] <JontheEchidna> FFFFF
[21:09] <Quintasan> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/0I7AI4iP2kdUd8j32-b0HWGNOpLMqCURGqmqb3FFE2c?feat=directlink
[21:09] <Quintasan> this
[21:09] <JontheEchidna> now you can pull rodrigos in style
[21:10] <NCommander> ScottK: its on my TODO list, but currently all armel images are in a state of flux
[21:10] <JontheEchidna> una siesta!
[21:10] <ScottK> NCommander: Understand.
[21:10] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: :DDDDDD
[21:10] <NCommander> until the migration over the live-helper is complete, we're not doing ANY ARM image work.
[21:10] <JontheEchidna> though rodrigo is brazillian, not mexican...
[21:11] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Portuguese for Siesta appears to be Sesta according to Google.
[21:13] <apachelogger> kubotu: rodrigo
[21:13] <kubotu> oh, someone be pulling a rodrigo, recharge the batteries, good idea
[21:15] <apachelogger> Quintasan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi4MOA_1MYA
[21:15] <apachelogger> ScottK: is there a policy that prevents SRUing a dependency fix?
[21:16] <Quintasan> kubotu: is rbelem pulling a rodrigo?
[21:16] <ScottK> apachelogger: Not expliclitly.  SRU needs to be a regression, serious bug, or (perhaps) small and obviously safe.
[21:16] <Quintasan> apachelogger: ^ make is the activation for 8ball
[21:16] <Quintasan> it*
[21:16] <debfx> JontheEchidna: I has developed a quickaccess fix. will u mighty upstream accept it: http://paste.kde.org/76891/
[21:16] <apachelogger> ScottK: we might want to fix the phonon speaker setup tab then ^^
[21:17] <apachelogger> quickaccess is dead!
[21:17] <apachelogger> deal with it
[21:17] <apachelogger> update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-2.6.35-1-n900
[21:17] <apachelogger> Segmentation fault
[21:17] <apachelogger> WTF
[21:18] <debfx> apachelogger: I have somewhat revived it so now it is undead
[21:18] <Quintasan> apachelogger: haha lol
[21:18] <Quintasan> no n900 image for you
[21:19] <JontheEchidna> -rw-r--r-- 1 jonathan jonathan 857386 2011-05-31 13:55 current-to-debian.diff
[21:19] <JontheEchidna> -rw-r--r-- 1 jonathan jonathan 274082 2011-05-31 15:53 working.diff
[21:19] <JontheEchidna> LIKE A BOSS
[21:20] <apachelogger> debfx: it is dead to me
[21:20] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: rm -rf *
[21:20] <Quintasan> DO IT
[21:20] <apachelogger> once I fixed a seed I will not revert it
[21:20] <JontheEchidna> debfx: sure. The problem for me has been being un-lazy enough to do an actual release
[21:20]  * apachelogger introduces JontheEchidna to -h
[21:20] <JontheEchidna> oh, cool
[21:21] <JontheEchidna> 838K to 268K
[21:21] <Quintasan> LIKE A DEVELOPER
[21:21] <Quintasan> fixd
[21:21] <JontheEchidna> now to see if it builds
[21:22] <JontheEchidna>  pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy : Depends: kde-sc-dev-latest (>= 4:4.6.3) but it is not going to be installed
[21:22] <JontheEchidna> NOPE
[21:22] <JontheEchidna> needs kdebindings?
[21:23] <debfx> most likely
[21:23] <ScottK> apachelogger: You added a Universe package to kdebase-runtime depends making it uninstallable.
[21:23] <JontheEchidna> I'll log in a pbuilder to do an apt-get build-dep to make sure
[21:23] <ScottK> apachelogger: Can haz MIR for sound-theme-freedesktop?
[21:24] <apachelogger> Quintasan, shadeslayer: ^
[21:24] <apachelogger> ScottK: not my fault that ubuntu is unable to follow specs so I have to clean up after them
[21:24] <Quintasan> apachelogger: Why don't you just do it?
[21:24] <apachelogger> cause I am doing mobile right now
[21:24] <ScottK> apachelogger: I just want the images to build.
[21:24] <Quintasan> You can spare 5 minutes to write a MIR
[21:24] <apachelogger> and should be packign and going to bed soon, 10 hours of project work and journey to randa ahead
[21:25] <ScottK> Quintasan: MIR you can do on your phone.  You don't need a PC.  How about you?
[21:25] <debfx> apachelogger: have you also killed quickaccess in our default plasma config?
[21:26] <apachelogger> debfx: no that is why I told Quintasan to clean up afte rme upon which he pointed out that he has a bug
[21:26] <Quintasan> ScottK: Well, I can do that but expect even more crude MIR that the kamoso one
[21:27] <ScottK> Quintasan: Fine.  Please do.
[21:27] <Quintasan> ScottK: Why do we want it in Main?
[21:27] <apachelogger> back in them days you need to spend half a day on one MIR
[21:27]  * apachelogger remebers it well
[21:27] <apachelogger> what a PITA that was
[21:27] <Quintasan> apachelogger: You are repeating yourself ^_^
[21:28] <apachelogger> I am getting old
[21:28] <apachelogger> did I already tell the story of the great MIR flood of '08?
[21:29] <apachelogger> yay
[21:29] <apachelogger> I broke my mobile
[21:29] <apachelogger> !!!
[21:29] <apachelogger> geee
[21:29]  * Quintasan can't remember that one
[21:31] <Quintasan> ScottK: Is that one depenency of kde package or sth like that?
[21:31]  * Quintasan would like a valid reason to put in the bug report
[21:34] <apachelogger> Quintasan: it was in the dark age
[21:34] <Quintasan> When MIR's took hours to complete
[21:34] <apachelogger> back then a mighty wizard of the blue arts by the name of Riddell was roaming these lands
[21:34] <apachelogger> everything was business as usual
[21:34] <apachelogger> until suddently
[21:35] <Quintasan> *tesion rises*
[21:35] <Quintasan> tension**
[21:35] <apachelogger> the great overlords of the blue lands wanted to release a new creator
[21:35] <apachelogger> creature even
[21:35] <CIA-51> [kubuntu-notification-helper] Jonathan Thomas <echidnaman@kubuntu.org> * echidnaman@kubuntu.org-20110531203501-mvnvzphy57d20784 * src/kcmodule/notificationhelperconfigmodule.cpp Use HIG-compliant labels for radio buttons. (No double negatives)
[21:35] <apachelogger> of incredible might this creature was
[21:35] <apachelogger> and also dark, hence it were the dark age
[21:36] <Quintasan> 8.10?
[21:36] <apachelogger> the overlords of the blue lands called it KDE 4.0
[21:36] <Quintasan> oh I could see it coming
[21:36] <apachelogger> but with the minions of kubuntu land it went under many names
[21:36] <apachelogger> sata or devil for example
[21:36] <apachelogger> *satan
[21:37] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: could you make bzr log more like git log please? :P The current incarnation is a bit useless as it prints out the whole log at once, leaving the message for the most recent commit that I wanted to grab at the top of my last past konsole's scrollback range.
[21:37] <apachelogger> so the overlord sof the blue lands called upon the mighty wizard Riddell
[21:37] <apachelogger> because to unleash this dreadful evil that was KDE 4.0 they needed plenty of black magic
[21:37] <apachelogger> in particular one spell that we call MIR today
[21:37] <CIA-51> [kubuntu-notification-helper] Jonathan Thomas <echidnaman@kubuntu.org> * echidnaman@kubuntu.org-20110531203741-y8tim6kzsiks65rk * debian/changelog Update debian/changelog
[21:37] <apachelogger> back then it was called PUAVM
[21:38] <Quintasan> lol
[21:38] <apachelogger> for pain up your arse very much
[21:38] <Quintasan> oh god
[21:38] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: 8.04, in the land before time
[21:38] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: bug 213718 ?
[21:38] <ScottK> Quintasan: kdebase-runtime.  See apachelogger's last debian/changelog entry for rationale.
[21:38] <apachelogger> so the wizard used his knowledge to serve the great overlords of the blue land and casted multiple PUAVM spells
[21:38] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: yeah
[21:39] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: why not just pipe to less ?
[21:39] <JontheEchidna> less typing :P
[21:39] <apachelogger> in the end the creature was released and brought havoc to the lands of kernel.org
[21:39] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: good argument :)  It's on my todo
[21:39]  * Quintasan wonders if Riddell is enjoying the tale
[21:39] <apachelogger> upon which the king of those lands slew the beast
[21:40] <ScottK> Riddell and JontheEchidna: I'd find using a pager by default a bit suprising.
[21:40] <apachelogger> and from that day on used to have a gnome as his guardian
[21:40] <apachelogger> to prevent one of those KDE 4.0 ever coming near him again
[21:40] <ulysses> omg
[21:40]  * ScottK wonders if using bzr-pager and piping to less is like crossing the streams.
[21:40] <apachelogger> it was then that the overlords of the blue lands knew that they had to act
[21:41] <apachelogger> so they changed the face of their devilsh creature and called it KDE 4.3
[21:41] <Riddell> ScottK: I think current suggestion is to have it as a config option which is off by default, then see how people react to having it on
[21:41] <apachelogger> that was the beginning of the age of air
[21:42] <ScottK> Riddell: This is the standard Canonical practice of using end users as Guinea Pigs?
[21:42] <apachelogger> today it is but a fairytale to freighten children
[21:42] <maco> ScottK: iirc, git uses a pager by default, making me surprised and having to redo my bzr commands
[21:42] <maco> bzr diff <enter> WAHHHH bzr diff | less
[21:42] <yofel> git uses a pager by default
[21:42] <ScottK> maco: Assuming anything else in the entire world works like git is just a mistake.
[21:43] <ScottK> yofel: maco just said that.
[21:43] <micahg> pager by default it to make it more git like I believe
[21:43] <yofel> why? a while ago people assumed every FS out there behaved like ext3
[21:43] <ulysses> apachelogger: the BBC could make a great Doctor Who episode from this tale :D
[21:43] <apachelogger> but the face of this devilish creature lives on in the dungeon of kubuntu
[21:43] <micahg> wow, I was late on that one
[21:43] <ScottK> micahg: 5 backports bugs as penance.
[21:43] <apachelogger> if one finds their way through the maze of systemsettings one may hope to get a glimps at what this monster might have looked like
[21:44] <micahg> ScottK: :D
[21:44] <apachelogger> Quintasan: that was the great mir flood of '08
[21:44] <micahg> ScottK: hoping to start with backports in July
[21:44] <apachelogger> incidentially enough my mobile is still kaputt :(
[21:44] <ScottK> Great.
[21:44] <apachelogger> ulysses: they may do so if they release everything under the GPL
[21:44] <apachelogger> cause it is all GPL
[21:45] <ScottK> apachelogger: I am reminded of Intrepid where I got Spamassassin in Main.  I had to do a full (wiki page style) MIR for every single perl module it needed.  Now it's just one line "It's a simple perl module needed by foo".
[21:46] <Quintasan> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/790893
[21:46] <debfx> some bzr commands are just unusable without a pager, e.g. bzr log, or bzr diff most of the time
[21:46] <Quintasan> ScottK: ^
[21:46] <apachelogger> ScottK: oh yes :S
[21:46] <ScottK> THanks.
[21:46] <apachelogger> debfx: good thing the gitzy lesses it by default :P
[21:46] <ScottK> Quintasan: I need to have at least some of the stuff about is it maintained, the package is good, etc.
[21:46] <debfx> indeed
[21:47]  * Quintasan edits
[21:47] <debfx> git has its own usability problems though
[21:48] <apachelogger> hm
[21:48] <Quintasan> ScottK: Fixed
[21:48] <apachelogger> that reminds me of the story about when the lennart went to war
[21:48] <ScottK> Sigh.
[21:48] <apachelogger> though that is one for another time
[21:48] <JontheEchidna> oh, current blockers for building kdebase-workspace:
[21:48] <JontheEchidna>  libakonadi-dev : Depends: libboost-dev but it is not going to be installed
[21:48] <JontheEchidna>  python-kde4 : Depends: kdepim-runtime but it is not going to be installed
[21:49] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Use the versioned libboost-dev
[21:49]  * JontheEchidna didn't do the libakonadi-dev source package merge
[21:49] <ScottK> pim-runtime fix (in pimlibs) aleady uploaded
[21:50] <JontheEchidna> ok, so I should just have to wait a bit
[21:51] <JontheEchidna> I'll upload Quintasan's kdeadmin merge in the meantime
[21:51] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: double check it
[21:51] <JontheEchidna> ok
[21:51]  * Quintasan needs to do more merging
[21:52] <apachelogger> http://paste.ubuntu.com/615505/
[21:52] <apachelogger> for re-reading
[21:52] <Riddell> ScottK: how would you rather a decision was made on the pager issue?
[21:52] <Quintasan> lol
[21:53] <Quintasan> apachelogger: no, seriously, it was bad, but really THAT bad
[21:53] <Quintasan> ?
[21:53] <ScottK> Riddell: Pick something and stick with it.  I'll get used to it.
[21:53] <apachelogger> I dunno, Riddell did all the MIRs :P
[21:53] <ScottK> Changing back and forth is way more annoying than either one steadily.
[21:53] <apachelogger> or perhaps just promoted stuff ^^
[21:54] <ScottK> Speaking of which ...
[21:54] <Riddell> MIRs are promoted by ~ubuntu-mir, I'm not a member of that group.  I have pre-promoted stuff prior to approval in the past when ~ubuntu-mir has been unacceptably slow
[21:55] <JontheEchidna> zomg!
[21:55] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan:
[21:55] <JontheEchidna> -Depends: ${misc:Depends}, kdebase-runtime-dbg, 
[21:55] <JontheEchidna> +Depends: ${misc:Depends}, kdebase-runtime-dbg
[21:55] <ScottK> Riddell: Would you mind pre-promoting sound-theme-freedesktop?  We have a MIR being drafted and I'll make sure it gets to them.
[21:55] <JontheEchidna> the merge is ruined!
[21:55] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: lol
[21:55] <apachelogger> b0rked beyond repairz
[21:56] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: also you missed some updates to the Uploaders field from Debian
[21:56] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: I though I copypasted it
[21:56] <ScottK> Not very well, apparently.
[21:57]  * Quintasan nods
[21:57] <JontheEchidna> oh, I see. you did copy/paste it, sorta
[21:57] <debfx> maybe it got lost between pressing ctrl+c and ctrl+v
[21:57] <JontheEchidna> it just came out looking like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/615508/
[21:58] <Riddell> ScottK: I'd need a MIR bug report first and a good reason why being blocked on ~ubuntu-mir was stopping useful work being done
[21:58] <Quintasan> I blame having 4 konsole windows on one screen and not naming them appropriately
[21:59] <JontheEchidna> you should have used kate :P
[21:59]  * yofel used vim tabs
[21:59] <JontheEchidna> using konsole caused you to not be able to copy word-wrapped email addresses
[21:59] <Quintasan> Riddell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/790893
[22:00] <ScottK> Riddell: Quintasan started on Bug #790893, but got bored trying to make a proper MIR on his phone.  I'll write it up later today.  We're a couple of days behind on getting this merge stuff done and so that would make kdebase-runtime installable for Alpha 1 without having to upload it again.
[22:01] <ScottK> One of those days we're behind is being blocked on doko insisting on a MIR where one wasn't needed.
[22:02] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: oh, we also probably don't want debian's new cupsutils patch enabled, so I'll disable that in patches/series
[22:02] <JontheEchidna> oh, we want it in there, but commented out so that nobody enables it
[22:02] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: Was not sure about that "probably" part so I left it as is
[22:02] <Quintasan> It built I believe
[22:03] <JontheEchidna> I think you also forgot to bzr add the patch
[22:04] <JontheEchidna> all the rest of it looks great though
[22:11] <Quintasan> ScottK: I fixed it a little bit
[22:11] <Quintasan> it being MIR
[22:11] <ScottK> Thanks.
[22:12] <Quintasan> Do tell if I am missing something
[22:12] <ScottK> Did you look at the list of stuff to go in a MIR?
[22:13] <Quintasan> I did
[22:13] <ScottK> OK think it's ~OK.
[22:13] <Quintasan> security issues are most likely out of scope for a sound theme
[22:13] <ScottK> Riddell: We now have a decent MIR.  How about pre-promotion now?
[22:14] <ScottK> Just to get through Alpha 1.
[22:14] <Quintasan> it has no dealbreaking bugs
[22:14] <Riddell> ScottK: you need to convince me there's an urgent reason, when is alpha 1?
[22:14] <ScottK> Riddell: Thursday.
[22:14] <Riddell> hmm, that's soon
[22:15] <ScottK> Yes.  Thus the urgency.
[22:15] <ScottK> It'd be kind of good if we can get live images tonight.
[22:15] <Quintasan> libcanberra is that freedesktop compilant notification etc?
[22:16] <Riddell> promoted
[22:16] <ScottK> libcanberra is an implementation of the XDG Sound Theme and Name Specifications, for generating event sounds on free desktops
[22:16] <ScottK> Riddell: Thanks.
[22:17] <Quintasan> oh
[22:17] <Quintasan> Well, it is past 11 pm. Time to go to bed
[22:17] <Quintasan> Good night.
[22:17] <apachelogger> brr, our mobile release image has 2 partitions
[22:17] <apachelogger> bleh
[22:17] <ScottK> Good night.
[22:17] <apachelogger> nini Quintasan
[22:18] <yofel> gn Quintasan
[22:21] <JontheEchidna> This is a bit weird, why not just declare and initialize on the same line? http://paste.ubuntu.com/615514/
[22:23] <JontheEchidna> Hmm, was -fpermissive on before oneiric?
[22:24] <JontheEchidna> and also there seem to be a lot more warnings that used to be supressed, apparently
[22:25] <debfx> JontheEchidna: -fpermissive is not on, it's a way t o suppress the error
[22:26]  * debfx grabs kdetoys
[22:26] <JontheEchidna> yeah, but did it used to be on? libmsn is failing in oneiric with the same upstream code
[22:26] <JontheEchidna> due to an error that would be supressed if -fpermissive was on
[22:28] <debfx> the "taking address of temporary" is an error since gcc 4.6
[22:33] <debfx> yofel: in kdetoys: "Don't add kweather.install (kweather is not distributed)" isn't necessary as debian has deactivated the package anyway
[22:34] <yofel> I was wondering about that too  - after I had applied that already - so add it back if you want to reduce the diff. Sry bout that
[22:34] <debfx> no problem
[22:35] <debfx> that means we could even sync the package!
[22:35] <debfx> scary
[22:36] <debfx> JontheEchidna: is kdebase-workspace still not buildable?
[22:37] <JontheEchidna> there's another package that we can almost sync, but I forget what it was
[22:37] <JontheEchidna> debfx: I'll try again
[22:37] <apachelogger> ScottK: so, it appears we can remove the sound theme from runtime again :P
[22:38] <debfx> the only problem with syncing is that we have to re-add our Vcs-* links later
[22:38] <apachelogger> debfx: we need a script for that really
[22:38] <apachelogger> something like that maintainer update script
[22:39] <debfx> apachelogger: we also need an update-maintainer script that sets "Kubuntu Developers"
[22:39] <apachelogger> oehm
[22:39] <apachelogger> just enhance the script
[22:39] <apachelogger> accept a -k arg or somesuch to set kubuntu dev
[22:39] <apachelogger> actually
[22:39] <apachelogger> about that
[22:40] <yofel> oxygen-icons is done too if you want to upload that, I also did kdesdk which should be re-checked. I'm pretty sure I did it right, but the bzr diff at the end was like ~7000 lines
[22:40] <apachelogger> we really should change it to Kubuntu Members
[22:40] <apachelogger> cause in lunchpad kubuntu-devel is associated with the members team not the devel team
[22:40] <apachelogger> also seems more fitting anyway
[22:41] <debfx> or kubuntu packagers? if you assume maintainer = people who can commit to the packaging vcs
[22:42] <ScottK> Sigh.
[22:42] <ScottK> apachelogger: OK.
[22:42] <apachelogger> lol
[22:42] <apachelogger> ScottK: just kididng :P
[22:42] <ScottK> apachelogger: Please do it.
[22:42] <ScottK> OK.
[22:42] <apachelogger> ScottK: we can move it to libcanberra directly
[22:42] <ScottK> Well, the Ubuntu people might have their own they prefer.
[22:43] <apachelogger> ScottK: #ubuntu-devel
[22:43] <apachelogger> ScottK: that theme is the hicolor of sound themes
[22:43] <ScottK> In fact a sound theme sounds like exactly the thing they would have.
[22:43] <apachelogger> it *must* be there
[22:43] <apachelogger> ScottK: if you write an app and deploy a sound along it, you'd install it to the freedesktop theme
[22:43] <ScottK> apachelogger: Nice.  Not our fault after all.
[22:43] <apachelogger> as it is ultimate fallback
[22:44] <apachelogger> ScottK: yeah, apparently ubuntu even had a patch once to remove the fallback completely :P
[22:44] <apachelogger> or so upstream told me
[22:44] <ScottK> Lovely.
[22:44] <apachelogger> which is of course the uber monster horrible spec violation
[22:45] <ScottK> What spec?
[22:45] <apachelogger> ScottK: the sound theme spec
[22:46] <ScottK> Is this some FDO/Gnome (we're going to pretend to care about more than Gnome) thing?
[22:46] <apachelogger> ScottK: sorta
[22:46] <apachelogger> it is made by the lennart
[22:46] <apachelogger> actually it is pretty sane from a cross desktop POV
[22:47] <apachelogger> except of course kde multimedia is playing dead as always
[22:47] <ScottK> That's pleasant news.
[22:47] <ScottK> Right.
[22:47] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: this seems to be exactly what you were talking about earlier: http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2011/05/krunner-doing-just-one-thing.html
[22:47] <apachelogger> essentially it is like knotify combined with phonon based on a solid spec
[22:47] <ScottK> If only there were a Qt/KDE multimedia layer that could deal with it.
[22:47] <apachelogger> phonon backends is in the plans
[22:47] <apachelogger> however libcanberra can use pulse directly which is greatly needed
[22:48] <apachelogger> e.g. that way it can cache sound samples within PA
[22:48] <apachelogger> something phonon 4 does not expose
[22:49] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: sounds more like solving the design problem of having feature overload
[22:49] <apachelogger> you still have one krunner bin
[22:49] <apachelogger> and if you call a specific plugin of that it will just look different and query only that
[22:49] <apachelogger> whereas I was talking about trimming the loaded plugins alltogether
[22:50] <JontheEchidna> you could trim plugins and customize it to be a better interface for that one plugin now
[22:50] <apachelogger> yeah
[22:50] <apachelogger> well
[22:50] <apachelogger> I have 2 plugins ^^
[22:50] <JontheEchidna> heh
[22:50] <apachelogger> shell cmds and applications (desktop files)
[22:52] <apachelogger> though we could also remove applications
[22:53] <JontheEchidna> debfx: still failing at this:
[22:53] <JontheEchidna> libakonadi-dev : Depends: libboost-dev but it is not going to be installed
[22:53] <JontheEchidna>  python-kde4 : Depends: kdepim-runtime but it is not going to be installed
[22:59] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: this is the monster in its most viewable, ever-morphing form: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/DependencyGraph
[22:59] <JontheEchidna> it is kept in check by a team of dedicated ninjas
[23:01] <debfx> JontheEchidna: hm pimlibs probably hasn't made it to the mirror yet
[23:09] <apachelogger> jussi: item(s) scheduled for shipment
[23:09] <apachelogger> hrrrhrrrr
[23:09] <apachelogger> 19-JUL-2011 ^^
[23:09] <apachelogger> G
[23:10] <trichard> hey, when i click on options in qtcreator it seems to crash and i get the following error: qtcreator: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/kde4/plugins/designer/kdepimwidgets.so: undefined symbol: _ZN4KPIM9KTimeEditC1EP7QWidget5QTimePKc
[23:10] <trichard> is it worth creating a bugreport is this my fault?
[23:11] <debfx> trichard: on natty or oneiric?
[23:11] <trichard> natty
[23:12] <trichard> qt creator 2.1.0 based on Qt 4.7.2 (64 bit)
[23:12] <trichard> also, i don't have the new KDE PIM RC installed
[23:13] <debfx> then please report a bug
[23:13] <debfx> kdewebdev can be synced too
[23:13] <debfx> so what's our policy there? just sync or keep maintainer + vcs links?
[23:14] <JontheEchidna> I don't think we've ever been able to get that close to debian in the past
[23:14] <JontheEchidna> because up until lucid we had to keep upgrading from hardy compatible
[23:15] <yofel> re kdewebdev: why did we use a versioned boost build-dep in the first place?
[23:15] <JontheEchidna> that's a general thing for every reverse-dependency of boost in main
[23:16] <yofel> ah, sure we can sync it then?
[23:17] <debfx> I'm not convinced that we need to keep it if we could sync otherwise
[23:18] <ScottK> If the versioned build-dep for boost is the only change, go ahead and sync (unless it'd require something pulled into main)
[23:18] <ScottK> Not all of the unversioned ones are in Main.
[23:19] <yofel> don't think so, only difference in the build would be that oneiric and natty have different boost versions (both in main)
[23:20] <JontheEchidna> debfx: now it's down to libakonadi-dev : Depends: libboost-dev but it is not going to be installed
[23:20] <debfx> JontheEchidna: why can't it install boost?
[23:21] <JontheEchidna> I don't know. Manually installing libakonadi-dev doesn't present any problems, so perhaps there is a conflict with one of the other build-depends
[23:21] <ScottK> libboost-dev is in Universe
[23:22] <JontheEchidna> ah, that'd do it
[23:22] <JontheEchidna> I'll fix akonadi, then
[23:23] <yofel> !info libboost-dev oneiric
[23:23] <yofel> ScottK: that says main ^
[23:23] <JontheEchidna> plus this is a universe/multiverse pbuiler I'm using
[23:23] <ScottK> So it is.
[23:23] <ScottK> Nevermind then.
[23:24]  * ScottK was thinking of libboost-all-dev
[23:24] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: versioned boost -dev packages for different versions aren't co-installable.
[23:24] <ScottK> Probably a mix of 1.42 and 1.46 in there somewhere.
[23:25] <JontheEchidna> hmm
[23:25] <ScottK> (that's my next wild guess anyway)
[23:25] <JontheEchidna> oh
[23:25] <JontheEchidna> I was using apt-get build-dep, which would obviously try to pull in the old deps
[23:25] <JontheEchidna> so that was a false positive
[23:25] <ScottK> Ah.
[23:25] <ScottK> That would do it.
[23:25] <JontheEchidna> it should work if I do a pbuilder --build now
[23:26] <JontheEchidna> but I was using pbuilder --login and apt-get build-dep so I wouldn't keep having to extract the chroot when I wanted to test
[23:26] <ScottK> Reasonable work flow.
[23:26] <JontheEchidna> testbuild kicked off, at any rate
[23:26] <ScottK> Except when it isn't.
[23:26] <JontheEchidna> heh, yeah
[23:26] <LaserJock> :-)
[23:27] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Did you save any merges for LaserJock?  He probably wants to start getting back in shape.
[23:27] <JontheEchidna> nobody's taken kdemultimedia yet
[23:28] <vorian> woo LaserJock! howdy!
[23:28] <LaserJock> hi vorian 
[23:30] <ScottK> LaserJock: Go for it.
[23:30] <LaserJock> working on it
[23:31] <LaserJock> I gotta get things set up
[23:31]  * yofel is off to bed, good night
[23:34] <ScottK> Good night yofel.
[23:34]  * apachelogger puts a hat on
[23:34] <debfx> bug #790958
[23:35] <debfx> :)
[23:35] <ScottK> Nice.
[23:36] <vorian> are there any bitesized type thingies that need done
[23:36]  * vorian really has a lot to pick up again
[23:50] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo/Oneiric?action=diff&rev2=149&rev1=148
[23:50] <JontheEchidna> cool story bro
[23:51]  * JontheEchidna reverts
[23:56] <JontheEchidna> bug 790936
[23:56] <JontheEchidna> looks like somebody didn't check to see what would be removed when he upgraded :P
[23:57] <JontheEchidna> kdebase-workspace half way through its testbuild
[23:59] <ScottK> 'wontfix - upgrade this early and that's what you get'
[23:59] <JontheEchidna> vorian: bug 781310