/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/05/31/#ubuntu-us-mi.txt

greg-gyay CC0 :)00:33
rick_h_Man, the more time passes the more irratating 90% of the content on the web gets.01:46
rick_h_I'm turning into an old curmudgeon01:47
snap-lrick_h_: I think you're just upset because peple don't want to think01:51
snap-lthey see ORM as "I don't have to write SQL", not "I can treat these things as objects"01:52
rick_h_well, no, that happens in all walks of the world01:52
rick_h_in jquery it's "How can I do for loops in jQuery"01:52
rick_h_in PHP it's "how can I store people's sessions"01:52
rick_h_they all have their users that don't understand wtf they're using/doing underneath the tool01:52
rick_h_but to rant on the tool "RoR makes people stupid because they don't know how..."01:53
rick_h_is what irritates me01:53
snap-lIt's the magicians that are irritating01:53
rick_h_people shouldn't do OOP, after all, they don't understand how they're destroying the memory profile of their application when they create 50,000 instances of giant objects01:53
snap-lOr rather, those who believe in true computer magic01:54
snap-lmagicians who know how the trick is done and know the sleight-of-hand they're performing are fine01:54
rick_h_sometimes magic is ok for beginners01:54
snap-lthose who see the results, and then try to pull rabbits out of their baseball cap at home are irritating.01:54
rick_h_once you realize your performance sucks because you're doing a loop and inside of that loop a query per iteration...you'll look for the right way to fix that01:55
snap-lReminds me of the nested for / if-then code that I saw a particular VB coder do01:55
snap-lselect * from table a; for i in read rows; if value = column then break; next01:56
snap-lexcept it kept going for about 5 tables deep01:56
snap-lI looked at that and said "fuck this, I'm rewriting it in Perl."01:56
rick_h_yea, I always press in my SA talks that you don't get away with not knowing SQL. Sorry, just doesn't work that way01:57
snap-lSince they were looking to put it on the web at some point anyway.01:57
rick_h_like using jQuery doesn't mean you don't ahve to learn Javascript01:57
snap-lIt's like learning to use a word processor doesn't mean you don't have to know how to write.01:57
snap-lor using a calculator doesn't mean you don't have to know algebra.01:58
snap-lIt's a tool.01:58
rick_h_yea01:58
snap-lYou're always going to get that, though, especially with things that are different like SQL, Javascript, or what have you.02:00
snap-l"SQL is hard, I'll use a ORM instead". "I can use jQuery to make nice widgets, so I don't have to worry about Javascript"02:01
snap-l"I can just drag and drop these widgets on this frame and make a VB application"02:01
snap-lThere's always someone looking for a shortcut.02:02
snap-lAnd like the man says, there's no silver bullet02:02
jrwrenits ok. they will write shit that scale for shit if they use an ORM that way02:59
snap-lScaling? Shit, the code's done when the compiler's run.03:25
snap-lAnd the errors = none03:25
snap-lhttp://music.fishbone.net/album/truth-and-soul03:36
snap-lMan, if Fishbone released their stuff as CC licensed music, I'd have a musicgasm.03:38
* snap-l now regrets getting rid of The Reality of My Surroundings.03:40
snap-lI wasn't ready.03:40
snap-lhttp://music.fishbone.net/album/the-reality-of-my-surroundings03:41
rick_h_ouch, too much yard work yesterday makes for groggy Tues12:46
brouschi didn't overdo it for once. mowed front yard, rested, went to park, rested, weed whacked back yard12:51
brouschno sun burn and little soreness12:51
greg-gwait, rick_h_ linking to a bkuhn blog post? oh, its about power users ranting, not licenses, got it :P13:11
rick_h_greg-g: :)13:17
rick_h_I know, I had to reread who it was posting that a few times13:18
rick_h_but I hit that back in LTS13:18
rick_h_drove me nuts that my .Xmodmap failed and had to do all kinds of crap to try to get my stuff tweaked13:18
greg-gsuck13:18
rick_h_yea, complete. Miss my xorg.conf some days13:18
snap-lShould've just used GNOME all along. ;)13:25
rick_h_yea, cause that's been smooth with no transitions/changes at all13:27
rick_h_:P13:27
snap-lI haven't had any XModmap issues. :)13:27
snap-lI leave my keys where God intends them. ;P13:27
rick_h_yea, so sorry I care about ease of use, effeciency, and thinking for myself :)13:28
snap-lwCtrl-J for escape is not efficiency. :)13:28
snap-lCTRL-[ for escape is using the correct keypress. ;)13:29
snap-lno xmodmap required.13:29
rick_h_ctrl to caplock...xmodmap13:29
rick_h_old ctrl to caps lock...xmodmap13:29
snap-lctrl to capslock = sacrilege.13:29
rick_h_fixing different keyboards swapping mod4 + alt13:29
rick_h_xmodmap13:29
rick_h_come on, surely as a new unity fan needing consistant windows key locatino for all those fancy keyboard shortcuts you have now, you can appreciate the need to move them around13:30
snap-lThat's also using the GNOME keyboard tool13:30
rick_h_heh, and that's the meat of it isn't it.13:30
snap-lhttp://ubuntuone.com/p/wgt/13:34
snap-l^^ works for me. ;)13:34
snap-lhttp://ubuntuone.com/p/wgt/ <- I love how this says that it's "the Sony CD-R 50 pack"13:37
snap-las if there's only one per store.13:37
=== smoser` is now known as smoser
snap-lOK, could someone turn off the heat, please?14:15
_stink__my thermostat's broken14:16
_stink__the one labeled "Earth"14:16
snap-lPlease get someone out to fix it14:16
snap-lI'm starting to consider working in the crawlspace.14:16
rick_h_basement offices ftw14:17
snap-lSingle story homes with no AC FTL.14:18
rick_h_no AC?!14:18
snap-lNope14:18
rick_h_dude, my garage code is XXX14:18
rick_h_head over14:19
snap-lheh14:19
greg-gyeah, no AC at my place either, luckily the library has AC (when it works and my office isn't 80)14:22
snap-lUgh14:24
jrwrengot a basement?14:44
snap-ljrwren: No14:44
jrwrenslab?14:44
snap-lcrawlspace.14:44
jrwrenUGH... thtat is the WORST!!!14:45
jrwrenrent or own?14:45
snap-ljrwren: Thanks for validating. ;)14:45
snap-lrent14:45
jrwrenat least you don't own that shit hole.14:46
Wolfgerheh14:50
jrwrenhttp://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTQ5Mw14:56
jrwrencleancache sounds awesome14:56
greg-ganyone on natty use mutt?15:14
brouschi thought all mutt users were required to use a crusty old tiling window manager15:14
greg-gbrousch: :P15:17
greg-gbrousch: all mutt users are just those who appreciate a quality application that lets them get their work done faster :)15:17
brouschexactly the kid of person that would use a tiling window manager15:18
greg-gbrousch: ok, yeah, there is some overlap ;)15:21
snap-lOK, new AC unit ordered via Amazon15:48
snap-lthough i'm a little ticked because one unit that I was looking at got bought up before I could purchase it. :)15:48
snap-lWas $179 with prime, then became $202 without Prime15:49
greg-g:(15:51
snap-lYeah, so I got the 5000 BTU model one step below instead of the 6000 BTU unit15:51
snap-lHmm, dad just called. Costco has a Sharp model with 8000 BTU for 17915:54
greg-gruh roh15:55
snap-lcanceled the Amazon order. :)15:55
greg-ggood, glad you still could15:55
snap-lYeah, and it's local, so if it doesn't work out, no wories shipping it back. ;)15:58
greg-gthis is one of the straightest lined storms I've seen in a while: http://www.wunderground.com/radar/mixedcomposite.asp?region=a4&size=2x&ID=DTX19&MR=116:01
greg-g(look now, it might not be straight if you read scrollback! :P)16:01
snap-lWow. I've seen them horizontal, but not vertical like that16:01
greg-gI knew you would appreciate that. I've become a radar watcher this spring with all those storms16:02
snap-lJoDee's the radar watcher. :)16:02
snap-lI just happened to pick up a little along the way16:02
snap-lWe call her and her sister the Baker Weather Service.16:02
brouschgreg-g: weatherbug has a really nice radar app on android16:02
greg-ghah16:03
brouschso you can watch the radar from anywhere16:03
greg-gbrousch: ok ok, I'll get a smart phone (soon)(ish)(like later)16:03
greg-g:)16:03
snap-lI <3 Wunderground16:03
brouschso we knew exactly when to flee binder park zoo (battle creek) on sunday16:03
jrwrenensemble looks intresting... we always handled it with dssh and apt-get :)16:05
jrwren<3 Wunderground too16:06
rick_h_greg-g: on that zed link vs github16:09
rick_h_I'm failing to miss the github issue here, I mean they're missing a block feature16:09
rick_h_but I'm missing how he's proved any connection that they harassed, etc?16:09
greg-gthe employees at github are also partaking in such juvenile jokes16:09
greg-gthey didn't harass him personally, and he never said they did, just that the employees at github do this exact same gag to others (but not him)16:10
rick_h_where was a github employee? I saw him linking to some engine yard and says "and github employees" but all the specific people linked were engine yard I could see16:10
brouschruby sounds like a great community16:11
jrwrenassholes16:14
jrwreni should saw... great people and a few loud assholes.16:14
jrwreni can't stand the 5x5 podcast guys.16:14
jrwrenthe snark is so thick i want to kick them.16:14
brouschjrwren: violence is not the answer. mailing flaming bags of poo is16:16
jrwreni'll just wait until i run into one of 'em at a conference then I'll kick 'em in the shins16:17
snap-lOr bring a megaphone and yell "FUCK YOU" right behind 'em.16:19
jrwren... ooh... orchestra sounds sweet too.16:19
jrwrenhttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2011-March/005411.html16:19
jrwrensnap-l: yeah, last time i reallly didn't like someone because they seemed a jerk on podcasts i swore if i met 'em in IRL i'd punch 'em in the face... adn then I didn't.16:20
jrwreni met him and he turned out to be pretty cool.16:20
snap-lBecause it's just not worth it.16:20
jrwrenright.16:20
jrwrenbut shin kicking... shin kicking might be doable.16:20
jrwrena face slap might be good too...16:21
jrwrenWhat did the hand say to teh face?16:21
snap-lOr a simple "Hi, I'm the lead developer of ... and I'd like to ask you about your remarks in episode ... "16:21
snap-lbecause I feel they were quite unfounded, ignorant, and completely missed the mark16:22
Wolfgersnark-haters16:22
snap-lWolfger: cork it. :)16:22
snap-lI think that's going to be my new anti-wolfger statement. ;)16:22
Wolfgerwolfger-hater16:22
snap-lguilty as charged. ;)16:23
Wolfgerouch16:23
snap-lNah, I'm just messing with you.16:24
WolfgerToo late. Your words have stung me. I'm now going to leave the country.16:28
Wolfgerfor roughly 8 days. Then I'll be back with a vengeance16:29
jrwrensnap-l: but that is the thing... they KNOW that they are wrong. They aren't ignorant, but they are snarky still.16:29
jrwrenlike ENDLESSLY making fun of python whitespace significance.16:29
jrwrenSHIN KICK16:29
Wolfgerheh16:29
brouschi suggest you stop listening to the podcast16:30
brouschthere are many others16:30
Wolfgerwelcome to the internet. Snarkiness has been elevated to art form.16:30
jrwrenbut they do have good info.16:30
jrwrenSHIN KICK16:30
* Wolfger makes a note to wear shin guards around jrwren16:31
brouschand steel-toed boots16:33
brouschso you can kick him back16:33
Wolfgershin guards go better with either cleats or hockey skates....16:45
WolfgerMongolian BBQ now has "cervezaritas"? Why on earth would you pollute a good margarita with beer? Or vice versa?17:08
brouschsounds ghastly17:09
rick_h_http://current.workingdirectory.net/posts/2011/master-slave/ ok really??!17:13
Blazeixwe should also get rid of the terminology "server", since that has connotations of inequality.17:16
Blazeixand "web," since spider webs are icky17:16
rick_h_I mean, how long before it's a crime to refer to your boss as a "slave driver"?17:17
rick_h_I want to see someone personally offended due to a real connection between the term/past17:17
Blazeixjust wait until that person discovers hardware connectors17:17
rick_h_I think we're far enough away that I doubt it's any sort of personal reaction17:17
Blazeixoh, is this a site where just anyone can post anything?17:18
Blazeixoh, no. I guess it does just belong to one guy17:20
Blazeixooh, just found code similar to this in one of our C# applications: http://vpaste.net/6u7dP?17:27
Blazeixthat's awesome :)17:27
BlazeixI swapped out the conditions, mainly just the chaining of ternary operators on first class functions17:27
Blazeixthen providing some sort of default no-op delegate, and immediatly invoking it17:29
Wolfgerrick_h_: I assume he would strenuously object to renaming master/slave as "plantation owner/n*****"....17:31
snap-lrick_h_: Yeah, I've heard that there's this push to remove master / slave from the vocabulary of computing17:32
rick_h_I'm writing my reply17:33
Wolfgerwhy do people feel the need to imbue words with so much power? Master: that which controls. Slave: that which is controlled. It's really quite simple and (in reference to inanimate objects) innocuous.17:33
snap-lbecause someone saw Roots, and feels it necessary to remove that stigma from their computing environment17:33
Wolfgerbah17:33
snap-lWhich is why we can no longer have a time where our hammers might be used to their fullest potential, without invoking the dreaded "Hammer Time"17:34
brouschsnap-l: damn you17:34
Wolfgermaybe we should change the terminology to mass-media-pundit/unthinking-masses17:35
snap-lI mean, nobody thought about those poor hard-working millers before we took away their time, and turned it into Miller Time17:35
Wolfgersnap-l: can't touch this17:35
snap-lWould folks prefer we use the terms Conservative / Liberal for Master / Slave?17:36
snap-lDominant / Submissive?17:36
rick_h_http://current.workingdirectory.net/posts/2011/master-slave/ there17:36
rick_h_let it be known I'm pro-slavery (so long as it doesn't involve humans)17:37
Wolfgerrick_h_: speciesist!17:37
snap-lI'm pro slavery, as long as it's between two consenting adults.17:37
Wolfger++17:37
Wolfgerand ++ on rick_h_'s comment17:38
brouschbut what about dolphins?17:39
rick_h_enslave them...find me the landmines you #@%*-es17:39
snap-lbrousch: thank you for the Rob Halford dolphin image that I just conjured in my mine.17:39
Wolfgerthey have been eslaved (enlisted) into helping the navy plant explosive charges....17:39
snap-lmind, rather17:39
Wolfgeror find them, or something17:39
Wolfgerthey've been enslaved, they will be again17:40
snap-lI'm just getting a bit tired of the PC police finding stupid semantics wars to fight17:40
snap-lWhen will they go to the breeders and say that they can't use the word bitch because it's offensive to female dogs?17:40
WolfgerLOL17:41
Wolfgerthat day is coming, I'm sure17:41
snap-lSo they'll come up with a new word, and suddenly we'll have a new battle to fight17:41
snap-lHumbug, the lot of it.17:41
snap-land at the time that word was one of the 7 deadly words.17:42
snap-lIt's like the word retarded. Used to be a kinder way of saying idiot17:42
snap-lbut now it's even more offensive.17:42
rick_h_right, exactly I've met mentally handicapped people that might find the term offensive17:42
rick_h_I've never met a former slave17:42
rick_h_any of you?17:42
Wolfgerwe find different ways to drop the F-bomb, and that doesn't please people... they just start wanting to ban all the new alternatives17:43
snap-lnot to my knowledge.17:43
rick_h_that's my thing, if former slaves with that mental state were reading database books...ok17:43
snap-lI await the day when "shut the front door" is deemed offensive.17:43
rick_h_but come on, we've reached that statute of limitatinos17:43
snap-lSlave drives under IDE?17:43
rick_h_door men of the world cringe at that thought snap-l17:43
snap-lThe problem isn't the word, it's the intent17:44
Wolfgerlimitatinos? Is that a racial slur? ;-)17:44
snap-lWhich is why I have a real problem with the FCC's censorship, but that's a whole bag of worms17:44
brouschyou know what's kind of messed up. android has more malware than osx or linux18:17
WolfgerWhere do we nominate *buntu names? I want to suggest Rabid Ratel for Oneiric +3...18:21
Wolfgerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeybadger18:21
brouschWolfger: you have to talk to mark shuttleworth in person to suggest names18:22
greg-gthere's a wiki page, but I doubt it is taken seriously18:39
WolfgerHey, wunderground hippies.... Have you ever tried weatherspark? http://weatherspark.com/#!graphs;a=Germany/Stuttgart18:39
snap-lNot sure if JoDee has seen that.18:41
greg-gI also adore weatherspark, it is info-loving goodness18:43
WolfgerI like that graph view a lot.18:43
greg-gbut, sometimes quite wrong18:43
WolfgerI hope this is one of those times....18:43
WolfgerI would love for there to NOT be a 75-85% chance of rain on my only scheduled day off in Germany.18:44
Wolfgerand also the following 3 nights :-p18:46
WolfgerAt least the day my plane touches down should be good weather...18:47
brouschWolfger: watcha doin in germany?18:47
Wolfgerworkin' for da man18:50
Wolfgerit's a master/slave thing ;-)18:50
Wolfgermachine checkouts for a "seat and guide press" machine, as part of authorization to ship.18:51
Wolfgerand they are not ready for me, but I am going anyways, to breath down their necks a bit. Fun stuff.18:51
greg-gwow, are you bringing your SCA equipment to intimidate?18:53
WolfgerTheory is, they will be ready on Monday, so I spend a partial day Thursday and all day Friday/Saturday "making sure we are ready".18:53
Wolfgergreg-g: I would not want the hassle of getting that stuff through the airport18:53
jrwrenWolfger: you beat me to it!!18:54
jrwrenWolfger: was reading the backlog adn saw the platation owner/****18:54
* jrwren now has Depeche Mode's Master and Servant in his head.18:54
WolfgerLOL18:54
_stink__jrwren++18:54
_stink__same here18:55
Wolfgerjrwren: we are on the same page with that18:55
WolfgerDM was the first thing in my head, too18:55
WolfgerHmm... IRCCloud is very nice, but is it subscription-worthy? That is the question.18:58
brouschi'm trying to get my hands on a Cr-48. i think that will make irccloud much more valuable18:59
WolfgerI could live with the $3/month level of service, and I'm sure I can afford $3 a month, but is it $3/month better than webchat?18:59
WolfgerOh yes, if I used my cr-48 more often, IRCCloud would definitely be the way to go19:00
brouschyou have one?19:02
=== _stink__ is now known as _stink_
WolfgerYes.19:14
brouschbastard19:18
WolfgerYes.19:18
snap-lhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrgP1u5YWEg19:20
snap-lHerbie Hakcock is definitely on my list of musicians I owe a case of beer19:21
brouschsnap-l: i'm tired enough at 2pm. i don't need you putting me to sleep19:22
greg-gdoes that guitarist seriously have a cheat sheet ala vim commands?19:23
WolfgerHerbie Hancock++19:32
WolfgerHerbie Hakcock, however, notsomuch. :-D19:32
snap-lbrousch: I think that's Pat Metheney19:48
snap-lso God Knows what's on that guitar.19:48
snap-lHe's quite a gadget freak19:48
snap-l1990s era gadgets19:48
snap-lThe outside thermometer says 112F19:53
snap-lwhile that's likely because it's in the sunlight, it wouldn't surprise me19:53
brouschis it taped to your dryer vent?19:53
snap-ldryer vent. hahahahahaha19:55
snap-l#hook The PCs must persuade stubborn fruit-bearing tree-men. "There's no need to argue; pear ents just don't understand." -sjm20:07
brouschinteresting, esp to you freetards http://www.syncany.org/20:32
brouschblah, there's no release yet20:33
jjesseis that the new thing that matt zimmermen went to?20:34
greg-gno, that's http://www.singly.com/20:35
jjessewell that's not confusing20:35
greg-gheh, it's hard to come up with good catchy names nowadays20:35
snap-lCPU Temperature:   +49.0°C  (high = +65.0°C, crit = +95.0°C)20:35
snap-lMB Temperature:    +61.0°C  (high = +45.0°C, crit = +95.0°C)20:35
snap-lI'm meeeeelting20:36
brouschCatchly: my new cloud service for generating catchy names20:36
snap-lbrassuns.com -< My new could data store service20:37
snap-lgives you 5 minute warnings before your data is lost, or your money back20:38
snap-l(but not your data)20:38
brouschcould data store, how fitting20:38
brouschcould be there, could be not there20:38
snap-lshroedinger's data store20:39
snap-lWe cannot ascertain without observing the data whether the data is your data, or someone else's data20:39
snap-lor is in fact garbage data.20:40
greg-gbut, right now you have a 1 in 3 chance it is, in fact, your correct data. Do you want us to observe it and take that 1 in 3 chance?20:41
snap-lActually, we only give tech journalists the service that works20:42
snap-leveryone else will get garbage.20:42
snap-lie: Scoble gets good data20:42
snap-lSevere Thunderstorm Watch20:44
greg-gyou said journalists20:44
snap-lWell, digierati20:44
greg-gok20:44
jrwrenwhy isn't apache configured for Expires headers by default?21:10
snap-lhttp://www.techradar.com/news/software/free-software-is-facing-a-monumental-test-95910822:08
snap-lQt is deprecated. ;)22:08
snap-lMan, I wish there was upvoting on certain blogs22:24
snap-lhttp://current.workingdirectory.net/posts/2011/master-slave/#comment-769376392170df262c1090ef7a9e220522:24
snap-lThis is 100% awesome22:24
krondorSnap-l:  like Google +1d?22:48
krondorDidn't the city of la require hard drives for government use to go with primary secondary22:50
krondorBecause of the slave thing?22:50
krondorYeah it did http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/master.asp22:51

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