[00:33] <greg-g> yay CC0 :)
[01:46] <rick_h_> Man, the more time passes the more irratating 90% of the content on the web gets.
[01:47] <rick_h_> I'm turning into an old curmudgeon
[01:51] <snap-l> rick_h_: I think you're just upset because peple don't want to think
[01:52] <snap-l> they see ORM as "I don't have to write SQL", not "I can treat these things as objects"
[01:52] <rick_h_> well, no, that happens in all walks of the world
[01:52] <rick_h_> in jquery it's "How can I do for loops in jQuery"
[01:52] <rick_h_> in PHP it's "how can I store people's sessions"
[01:52] <rick_h_> they all have their users that don't understand wtf they're using/doing underneath the tool
[01:53] <rick_h_> but to rant on the tool "RoR makes people stupid because they don't know how..."
[01:53] <rick_h_> is what irritates me
[01:53] <snap-l> It's the magicians that are irritating
[01:53] <rick_h_> people shouldn't do OOP, after all, they don't understand how they're destroying the memory profile of their application when they create 50,000 instances of giant objects
[01:54] <snap-l> Or rather, those who believe in true computer magic
[01:54] <snap-l> magicians who know how the trick is done and know the sleight-of-hand they're performing are fine
[01:54] <rick_h_> sometimes magic is ok for beginners
[01:54] <snap-l> those who see the results, and then try to pull rabbits out of their baseball cap at home are irritating.
[01:55] <rick_h_> once you realize your performance sucks because you're doing a loop and inside of that loop a query per iteration...you'll look for the right way to fix that
[01:55] <snap-l> Reminds me of the nested for / if-then code that I saw a particular VB coder do
[01:56] <snap-l> select * from table a; for i in read rows; if value = column then break; next
[01:56] <snap-l> except it kept going for about 5 tables deep
[01:56] <snap-l> I looked at that and said "fuck this, I'm rewriting it in Perl."
[01:57] <rick_h_> yea, I always press in my SA talks that you don't get away with not knowing SQL. Sorry, just doesn't work that way
[01:57] <snap-l> Since they were looking to put it on the web at some point anyway.
[01:57] <rick_h_> like using jQuery doesn't mean you don't ahve to learn Javascript
[01:57] <snap-l> It's like learning to use a word processor doesn't mean you don't have to know how to write.
[01:58] <snap-l> or using a calculator doesn't mean you don't have to know algebra.
[01:58] <snap-l> It's a tool.
[01:58] <rick_h_> yea
[02:00] <snap-l> You're always going to get that, though, especially with things that are different like SQL, Javascript, or what have you.
[02:01] <snap-l> "SQL is hard, I'll use a ORM instead". "I can use jQuery to make nice widgets, so I don't have to worry about Javascript"
[02:01] <snap-l> "I can just drag and drop these widgets on this frame and make a VB application"
[02:02] <snap-l> There's always someone looking for a shortcut.
[02:02] <snap-l> And like the man says, there's no silver bullet
[02:59] <jrwren> its ok. they will write shit that scale for shit if they use an ORM that way
[03:25] <snap-l> Scaling? Shit, the code's done when the compiler's run.
[03:25] <snap-l> And the errors = none
[03:36] <snap-l> http://music.fishbone.net/album/truth-and-soul
[03:38] <snap-l> Man, if Fishbone released their stuff as CC licensed music, I'd have a musicgasm.
[03:40]  * snap-l now regrets getting rid of The Reality of My Surroundings.
[03:40] <snap-l> I wasn't ready.
[03:41] <snap-l> http://music.fishbone.net/album/the-reality-of-my-surroundings
[12:46] <rick_h_> ouch, too much yard work yesterday makes for groggy Tues
[12:51] <brousch> i didn't overdo it for once. mowed front yard, rested, went to park, rested, weed whacked back yard
[12:51] <brousch> no sun burn and little soreness
[13:11] <greg-g> wait, rick_h_ linking to a bkuhn blog post? oh, its about power users ranting, not licenses, got it :P
[13:17] <rick_h_> greg-g: :)
[13:18] <rick_h_> I know, I had to reread who it was posting that a few times
[13:18] <rick_h_> but I hit that back in LTS
[13:18] <rick_h_> drove me nuts that my .Xmodmap failed and had to do all kinds of crap to try to get my stuff tweaked
[13:18] <greg-g> suck
[13:18] <rick_h_> yea, complete. Miss my xorg.conf some days
[13:25] <snap-l> Should've just used GNOME all along. ;)
[13:27] <rick_h_> yea, cause that's been smooth with no transitions/changes at all
[13:27] <rick_h_> :P
[13:27] <snap-l> I haven't had any XModmap issues. :)
[13:27] <snap-l> I leave my keys where God intends them. ;P
[13:28] <rick_h_> yea, so sorry I care about ease of use, effeciency, and thinking for myself :)
[13:28] <snap-l> wCtrl-J for escape is not efficiency. :)
[13:29] <snap-l> CTRL-[ for escape is using the correct keypress. ;)
[13:29] <snap-l> no xmodmap required.
[13:29] <rick_h_> ctrl to caplock...xmodmap
[13:29] <rick_h_> old ctrl to caps lock...xmodmap
[13:29] <snap-l> ctrl to capslock = sacrilege.
[13:29] <rick_h_> fixing different keyboards swapping mod4 + alt
[13:29] <rick_h_> xmodmap
[13:30] <rick_h_> come on, surely as a new unity fan needing consistant windows key locatino for all those fancy keyboard shortcuts you have now, you can appreciate the need to move them around
[13:30] <snap-l> That's also using the GNOME keyboard tool
[13:30] <rick_h_> heh, and that's the meat of it isn't it.
[13:34] <snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/wgt/
[13:34] <snap-l> ^^ works for me. ;)
[13:37] <snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/wgt/ <- I love how this says that it's "the Sony CD-R 50 pack"
[13:37] <snap-l> as if there's only one per store.
[14:15] <snap-l> OK, could someone turn off the heat, please?
[14:16] <_stink__> my thermostat's broken
[14:16] <_stink__> the one labeled "Earth"
[14:16] <snap-l> Please get someone out to fix it
[14:16] <snap-l> I'm starting to consider working in the crawlspace.
[14:17] <rick_h_> basement offices ftw
[14:18] <snap-l> Single story homes with no AC FTL.
[14:18] <rick_h_> no AC?!
[14:18] <snap-l> Nope
[14:18] <rick_h_> dude, my garage code is XXX
[14:19] <rick_h_> head over
[14:19] <snap-l> heh
[14:22] <greg-g> yeah, no AC at my place either, luckily the library has AC (when it works and my office isn't 80)
[14:24] <snap-l> Ugh
[14:44] <jrwren> got a basement?
[14:44] <snap-l> jrwren: No
[14:44] <jrwren> slab?
[14:44] <snap-l> crawlspace.
[14:45] <jrwren> UGH... thtat is the WORST!!!
[14:45] <jrwren> rent or own?
[14:45] <snap-l> jrwren: Thanks for validating. ;)
[14:45] <snap-l> rent
[14:46] <jrwren> at least you don't own that shit hole.
[14:50] <Wolfger> heh
[14:56] <jrwren> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTQ5Mw
[14:56] <jrwren> cleancache sounds awesome
[15:14] <greg-g> anyone on natty use mutt?
[15:14] <brousch> i thought all mutt users were required to use a crusty old tiling window manager
[15:17] <greg-g> brousch: :P
[15:17] <greg-g> brousch: all mutt users are just those who appreciate a quality application that lets them get their work done faster :)
[15:18] <brousch> exactly the kid of person that would use a tiling window manager
[15:21] <greg-g> brousch: ok, yeah, there is some overlap ;)
[15:48] <snap-l> OK, new AC unit ordered via Amazon
[15:48] <snap-l> though i'm a little ticked because one unit that I was looking at got bought up before I could purchase it. :)
[15:49] <snap-l> Was $179 with prime, then became $202 without Prime
[15:51] <greg-g> :(
[15:51] <snap-l> Yeah, so I got the 5000 BTU model one step below instead of the 6000 BTU unit
[15:54] <snap-l> Hmm, dad just called. Costco has a Sharp model with 8000 BTU for 179
[15:55] <greg-g> ruh roh
[15:55] <snap-l> canceled the Amazon order. :)
[15:55] <greg-g> good, glad you still could
[15:58] <snap-l> Yeah, and it's local, so if it doesn't work out, no wories shipping it back. ;)
[16:01] <greg-g> this is one of the straightest lined storms I've seen in a while: http://www.wunderground.com/radar/mixedcomposite.asp?region=a4&size=2x&ID=DTX19&MR=1
[16:01] <greg-g> (look now, it might not be straight if you read scrollback! :P)
[16:01] <snap-l> Wow. I've seen them horizontal, but not vertical like that
[16:02] <greg-g> I knew you would appreciate that. I've become a radar watcher this spring with all those storms
[16:02] <snap-l> JoDee's the radar watcher. :)
[16:02] <snap-l> I just happened to pick up a little along the way
[16:02] <snap-l> We call her and her sister the Baker Weather Service.
[16:02] <brousch> greg-g: weatherbug has a really nice radar app on android
[16:03] <greg-g> hah
[16:03] <brousch> so you can watch the radar from anywhere
[16:03] <greg-g> brousch: ok ok, I'll get a smart phone (soon)(ish)(like later)
[16:03] <greg-g> :)
[16:03] <snap-l> I <3 Wunderground
[16:03] <brousch> so we knew exactly when to flee binder park zoo (battle creek) on sunday
[16:05] <jrwren> ensemble looks intresting... we always handled it with dssh and apt-get :)
[16:06] <jrwren> <3 Wunderground too
[16:09] <rick_h_> greg-g: on that zed link vs github
[16:09] <rick_h_> I'm failing to miss the github issue here, I mean they're missing a block feature
[16:09] <rick_h_> but I'm missing how he's proved any connection that they harassed, etc?
[16:09] <greg-g> the employees at github are also partaking in such juvenile jokes
[16:10] <greg-g> they didn't harass him personally, and he never said they did, just that the employees at github do this exact same gag to others (but not him)
[16:10] <rick_h_> where was a github employee? I saw him linking to some engine yard and says "and github employees" but all the specific people linked were engine yard I could see
[16:11] <brousch> ruby sounds like a great community
[16:14] <jrwren> assholes
[16:14] <jrwren> i should saw... great people and a few loud assholes.
[16:14] <jrwren> i can't stand the 5x5 podcast guys.
[16:14] <jrwren> the snark is so thick i want to kick them.
[16:16] <brousch> jrwren: violence is not the answer. mailing flaming bags of poo is
[16:17] <jrwren> i'll just wait until i run into one of 'em at a conference then I'll kick 'em in the shins
[16:19] <snap-l> Or bring a megaphone and yell "FUCK YOU" right behind 'em.
[16:19] <jrwren> ... ooh... orchestra sounds sweet too.
[16:19] <jrwren> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2011-March/005411.html
[16:20] <jrwren> snap-l: yeah, last time i reallly didn't like someone because they seemed a jerk on podcasts i swore if i met 'em in IRL i'd punch 'em in the face... adn then I didn't.
[16:20] <jrwren> i met him and he turned out to be pretty cool.
[16:20] <snap-l> Because it's just not worth it.
[16:20] <jrwren> right.
[16:20] <jrwren> but shin kicking... shin kicking might be doable.
[16:21] <jrwren> a face slap might be good too...
[16:21] <jrwren> What did the hand say to teh face?
[16:21] <snap-l> Or a simple "Hi, I'm the lead developer of ... and I'd like to ask you about your remarks in episode ... "
[16:22] <snap-l> because I feel they were quite unfounded, ignorant, and completely missed the mark
[16:22] <Wolfger> snark-haters
[16:22] <snap-l> Wolfger: cork it. :)
[16:22] <snap-l> I think that's going to be my new anti-wolfger statement. ;)
[16:22] <Wolfger> wolfger-hater
[16:23] <snap-l> guilty as charged. ;)
[16:23] <Wolfger> ouch
[16:24] <snap-l> Nah, I'm just messing with you.
[16:28] <Wolfger> Too late. Your words have stung me. I'm now going to leave the country.
[16:29] <Wolfger> for roughly 8 days. Then I'll be back with a vengeance
[16:29] <jrwren> snap-l: but that is the thing... they KNOW that they are wrong. They aren't ignorant, but they are snarky still.
[16:29] <jrwren> like ENDLESSLY making fun of python whitespace significance.
[16:29] <jrwren> SHIN KICK
[16:29] <Wolfger> heh
[16:30] <brousch> i suggest you stop listening to the podcast
[16:30] <brousch> there are many others
[16:30] <Wolfger> welcome to the internet. Snarkiness has been elevated to art form.
[16:30] <jrwren> but they do have good info.
[16:30] <jrwren> SHIN KICK
[16:31]  * Wolfger makes a note to wear shin guards around jrwren
[16:33] <brousch> and steel-toed boots
[16:33] <brousch> so you can kick him back
[16:45] <Wolfger> shin guards go better with either cleats or hockey skates....
[17:08] <Wolfger> Mongolian BBQ now has "cervezaritas"? Why on earth would you pollute a good margarita with beer? Or vice versa?
[17:09] <brousch> sounds ghastly
[17:13] <rick_h_> http://current.workingdirectory.net/posts/2011/master-slave/ ok really??!
[17:16] <Blazeix> we should also get rid of the terminology "server", since that has connotations of inequality.
[17:16] <Blazeix> and "web," since spider webs are icky
[17:17] <rick_h_> I mean, how long before it's a crime to refer to your boss as a "slave driver"?
[17:17] <rick_h_> I want to see someone personally offended due to a real connection between the term/past
[17:17] <Blazeix> just wait until that person discovers hardware connectors
[17:17] <rick_h_> I think we're far enough away that I doubt it's any sort of personal reaction
[17:18] <Blazeix> oh, is this a site where just anyone can post anything?
[17:20] <Blazeix> oh, no. I guess it does just belong to one guy
[17:27] <Blazeix> ooh, just found code similar to this in one of our C# applications: http://vpaste.net/6u7dP?
[17:27] <Blazeix> that's awesome :)
[17:27] <Blazeix> I swapped out the conditions, mainly just the chaining of ternary operators on first class functions
[17:29] <Blazeix> then providing some sort of default no-op delegate, and immediatly invoking it
[17:31] <Wolfger> rick_h_: I assume he would strenuously object to renaming master/slave as "plantation owner/n*****"....
[17:32] <snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, I've heard that there's this push to remove master / slave from the vocabulary of computing
[17:33] <rick_h_> I'm writing my reply
[17:33] <Wolfger> why do people feel the need to imbue words with so much power? Master: that which controls. Slave: that which is controlled. It's really quite simple and (in reference to inanimate objects) innocuous.
[17:33] <snap-l> because someone saw Roots, and feels it necessary to remove that stigma from their computing environment
[17:33] <Wolfger> bah
[17:34] <snap-l> Which is why we can no longer have a time where our hammers might be used to their fullest potential, without invoking the dreaded "Hammer Time"
[17:34] <brousch> snap-l: damn you
[17:35] <Wolfger> maybe we should change the terminology to mass-media-pundit/unthinking-masses
[17:35] <snap-l> I mean, nobody thought about those poor hard-working millers before we took away their time, and turned it into Miller Time
[17:35] <Wolfger> snap-l: can't touch this
[17:36] <snap-l> Would folks prefer we use the terms Conservative / Liberal for Master / Slave?
[17:36] <snap-l> Dominant / Submissive?
[17:36] <rick_h_> http://current.workingdirectory.net/posts/2011/master-slave/ there
[17:37] <rick_h_> let it be known I'm pro-slavery (so long as it doesn't involve humans)
[17:37] <Wolfger> rick_h_: speciesist!
[17:37] <snap-l> I'm pro slavery, as long as it's between two consenting adults.
[17:37] <Wolfger> ++
[17:38] <Wolfger> and ++ on rick_h_'s comment
[17:39] <brousch> but what about dolphins?
[17:39] <rick_h_> enslave them...find me the landmines you #@%*-es
[17:39] <snap-l> brousch: thank you for the Rob Halford dolphin image that I just conjured in my mine.
[17:39] <Wolfger> they have been eslaved (enlisted) into helping the navy plant explosive charges....
[17:39] <snap-l> mind, rather
[17:39] <Wolfger> or find them, or something
[17:40] <Wolfger> they've been enslaved, they will be again
[17:40] <snap-l> I'm just getting a bit tired of the PC police finding stupid semantics wars to fight
[17:40] <snap-l> When will they go to the breeders and say that they can't use the word bitch because it's offensive to female dogs?
[17:41] <Wolfger> LOL
[17:41] <Wolfger> that day is coming, I'm sure
[17:41] <snap-l> So they'll come up with a new word, and suddenly we'll have a new battle to fight
[17:41] <snap-l> Humbug, the lot of it.
[17:42] <snap-l> and at the time that word was one of the 7 deadly words.
[17:42] <snap-l> It's like the word retarded. Used to be a kinder way of saying idiot
[17:42] <snap-l> but now it's even more offensive.
[17:42] <rick_h_> right, exactly I've met mentally handicapped people that might find the term offensive
[17:42] <rick_h_> I've never met a former slave
[17:42] <rick_h_> any of you?
[17:43] <Wolfger> we find different ways to drop the F-bomb, and that doesn't please people... they just start wanting to ban all the new alternatives
[17:43] <snap-l> not to my knowledge.
[17:43] <rick_h_> that's my thing, if former slaves with that mental state were reading database books...ok
[17:43] <snap-l> I await the day when "shut the front door" is deemed offensive.
[17:43] <rick_h_> but come on, we've reached that statute of limitatinos
[17:43] <snap-l> Slave drives under IDE?
[17:43] <rick_h_> door men of the world cringe at that thought snap-l
[17:44] <snap-l> The problem isn't the word, it's the intent
[17:44] <Wolfger> limitatinos? Is that a racial slur? ;-)
[17:44] <snap-l> Which is why I have a real problem with the FCC's censorship, but that's a whole bag of worms
[18:17] <brousch> you know what's kind of messed up. android has more malware than osx or linux
[18:21] <Wolfger> Where do we nominate *buntu names? I want to suggest Rabid Ratel for Oneiric +3...
[18:21] <Wolfger> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeybadger
[18:22] <brousch> Wolfger: you have to talk to mark shuttleworth in person to suggest names
[18:39] <greg-g> there's a wiki page, but I doubt it is taken seriously
[18:39] <Wolfger> Hey, wunderground hippies.... Have you ever tried weatherspark? http://weatherspark.com/#!graphs;a=Germany/Stuttgart
[18:41] <snap-l> Not sure if JoDee has seen that.
[18:43] <greg-g> I also adore weatherspark, it is info-loving goodness
[18:43] <Wolfger> I like that graph view a lot.
[18:43] <greg-g> but, sometimes quite wrong
[18:43] <Wolfger> I hope this is one of those times....
[18:44] <Wolfger> I would love for there to NOT be a 75-85% chance of rain on my only scheduled day off in Germany.
[18:46] <Wolfger> and also the following 3 nights :-p
[18:47] <Wolfger> At least the day my plane touches down should be good weather...
[18:47] <brousch> Wolfger: watcha doin in germany?
[18:50] <Wolfger> workin' for da man
[18:50] <Wolfger> it's a master/slave thing ;-)
[18:51] <Wolfger> machine checkouts for a "seat and guide press" machine, as part of authorization to ship.
[18:51] <Wolfger> and they are not ready for me, but I am going anyways, to breath down their necks a bit. Fun stuff.
[18:53] <greg-g> wow, are you bringing your SCA equipment to intimidate?
[18:53] <Wolfger> Theory is, they will be ready on Monday, so I spend a partial day Thursday and all day Friday/Saturday "making sure we are ready".
[18:53] <Wolfger> greg-g: I would not want the hassle of getting that stuff through the airport
[18:54] <jrwren> Wolfger: you beat me to it!!
[18:54] <jrwren> Wolfger: was reading the backlog adn saw the platation owner/****
[18:54]  * jrwren now has Depeche Mode's Master and Servant in his head.
[18:54] <Wolfger> LOL
[18:54] <_stink__> jrwren++
[18:55] <_stink__> same here
[18:55] <Wolfger> jrwren: we are on the same page with that
[18:55] <Wolfger> DM was the first thing in my head, too
[18:58] <Wolfger> Hmm... IRCCloud is very nice, but is it subscription-worthy? That is the question.
[18:59] <brousch> i'm trying to get my hands on a Cr-48. i think that will make irccloud much more valuable
[18:59] <Wolfger> I could live with the $3/month level of service, and I'm sure I can afford $3 a month, but is it $3/month better than webchat?
[19:00] <Wolfger> Oh yes, if I used my cr-48 more often, IRCCloud would definitely be the way to go
[19:02] <brousch> you have one?
[19:14] <Wolfger> Yes.
[19:18] <brousch> bastard
[19:18] <Wolfger> Yes.
[19:20] <snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrgP1u5YWEg
[19:21] <snap-l> Herbie Hakcock is definitely on my list of musicians I owe a case of beer
[19:22] <brousch> snap-l: i'm tired enough at 2pm. i don't need you putting me to sleep
[19:23] <greg-g> does that guitarist seriously have a cheat sheet ala vim commands?
[19:32] <Wolfger> Herbie Hancock++
[19:32] <Wolfger> Herbie Hakcock, however, notsomuch. :-D
[19:48] <snap-l> brousch: I think that's Pat Metheney
[19:48] <snap-l> so God Knows what's on that guitar.
[19:48] <snap-l> He's quite a gadget freak
[19:48] <snap-l> 1990s era gadgets
[19:53] <snap-l> The outside thermometer says 112F
[19:53] <snap-l> while that's likely because it's in the sunlight, it wouldn't surprise me
[19:53] <brousch> is it taped to your dryer vent?
[19:55] <snap-l> dryer vent. hahahahahaha
[20:07] <snap-l> #hook The PCs must persuade stubborn fruit-bearing tree-men. "There's no need to argue; pear ents just don't understand." -sjm
[20:32] <brousch> interesting, esp to you freetards http://www.syncany.org/
[20:33] <brousch> blah, there's no release yet
[20:34] <jjesse> is that the new thing that matt zimmermen went to?
[20:35] <greg-g> no, that's http://www.singly.com/
[20:35] <jjesse> well that's not confusing
[20:35] <greg-g> heh, it's hard to come up with good catchy names nowadays
[20:35] <snap-l> CPU Temperature:   +49.0°C  (high = +65.0°C, crit = +95.0°C)
[20:35] <snap-l> MB Temperature:    +61.0°C  (high = +45.0°C, crit = +95.0°C)
[20:36] <snap-l> I'm meeeeelting
[20:36] <brousch> Catchly: my new cloud service for generating catchy names
[20:37] <snap-l> brassuns.com -< My new could data store service
[20:38] <snap-l> gives you 5 minute warnings before your data is lost, or your money back
[20:38] <snap-l> (but not your data)
[20:38] <brousch> could data store, how fitting
[20:38] <brousch> could be there, could be not there
[20:39] <snap-l> shroedinger's data store
[20:39] <snap-l> We cannot ascertain without observing the data whether the data is your data, or someone else's data
[20:40] <snap-l> or is in fact garbage data.
[20:41] <greg-g> but, right now you have a 1 in 3 chance it is, in fact, your correct data. Do you want us to observe it and take that 1 in 3 chance?
[20:42] <snap-l> Actually, we only give tech journalists the service that works
[20:42] <snap-l> everyone else will get garbage.
[20:42] <snap-l> ie: Scoble gets good data
[20:44] <snap-l> Severe Thunderstorm Watch
[20:44] <greg-g> you said journalists
[20:44] <snap-l> Well, digierati
[20:44] <greg-g> ok
[21:10] <jrwren> why isn't apache configured for Expires headers by default?
[22:08] <snap-l> http://www.techradar.com/news/software/free-software-is-facing-a-monumental-test-959108
[22:08] <snap-l> Qt is deprecated. ;)
[22:24] <snap-l> Man, I wish there was upvoting on certain blogs
[22:24] <snap-l> http://current.workingdirectory.net/posts/2011/master-slave/#comment-769376392170df262c1090ef7a9e2205
[22:24] <snap-l> This is 100% awesome
[22:48] <krondor> Snap-l:  like Google +1d?
[22:50] <krondor> Didn't the city of la require hard drives for government use to go with primary secondary
[22:50] <krondor> Because of the slave thing?
[22:51] <krondor> Yeah it did http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/master.asp