[00:17] <jammcq> greg-g: ping
[00:36] <greg-g> jammcq: pong
[00:39] <jammcq> hey
[00:39] <jammcq> sitting here with Craig and other mug guys.
[00:39] <snap-l> Hey jammcq :)
[00:39] <jammcq> we're putting some info on the mug website for the june 14th meeting
[00:39] <jammcq> hey snap-l
[00:39] <jammcq> take a peek at http://www.mug.org
[00:39] <jammcq> i'd like to add more if you have anything to add
[00:41] <greg-g> jammcq: looks good so far, I don't have much more. Could you link "Michigan Ubuntu Loco" to http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-michigan
[00:41] <jammcq> yep
[00:41] <greg-g> I'm emailing the list once more to call for participation
[00:42] <jammcq> greg-g: ok, link is working
[00:44] <greg-g> awesome, thanks
[00:47] <greg-g> (sent the email to the list)
[01:18] <rick_h_> thanks greg-g, that was on my todo
[01:22] <greg-g> yeah, mine too, but I hadn't been using my todo manager for a while and I honestly kind of forgot about it
[01:22] <rick_h_> yea, meant to catch it this weekend, but you see how well that went
[04:09] <snap-l> Maybe I should do a short presentation on using todo.sh. ;)
[11:55] <greg-g> :)
[12:24] <tjagoda> Kyarrr
[13:26] <snap-l> Good morning
[13:26] <rick_h_> party
[13:26] <greg-g> g'morn
[13:26] <rick_h_> brousch: you submitting a talk to PyOhio?
[13:26] <rick_h_> you should :P
[13:26] <snap-l> Stupid computer locked up last night, which is why I wasn't on overnight
[13:27] <greg-g> lame
[13:27] <rick_h_> well crap, now you missed all the afk excitement
[13:27] <snap-l> Yeah, I figured as much
[13:27] <brousch> rick_h_: i wish i had something
[13:27] <snap-l> The parade of AFK
[13:27] <greg-g> stupid unity wouldn't work with dual screens this morning when I got to work, had to restart X
[13:29] <snap-l> Ugh
[13:29] <rick_h_> brousch: oh come on, no cool GAE, flask, django goodness to chat about for 30min?
[13:30] <brousch> gae and django have annoyed me too much
[13:30] <rick_h_> well, happy to see I'm not the only one :)
[13:30] <brousch> i could talk about how the complexity of django and the limitations of gae have driven me to flask and amazon ;)
[13:31] <rick_h_> think about it, not all good talks are "yay here's how this saved my life" talks
[13:31] <rick_h_> some of the best are "lessons learned form xxx" stuff
[13:31] <brousch> i have 2 days?
[13:31] <rick_h_> to submit it
[13:31] <brousch> the hardest part about that talk would be exposing my ignorance
[13:31] <rick_h_> not to write it
[13:32] <rick_h_> brousch: then a good way to approach it would be that route
[13:32] <rick_h_> "django and GAE, how I failed my tools" or something
[13:32] <snap-l> brousch: No better way to learn than to give a talk about it
[13:32] <rick_h_> make some great open space material afterwards
[13:32] <snap-l> Django and GAE: It should have worked.
[13:33] <brousch> for everything!
[13:33] <rick_h_> hah!
[13:33] <snap-l> Django and GAE: Why I'm using Flask and Amazon EC2
[13:33] <brousch> nice
[13:34] <brousch> i think i could make it work
[13:34] <snap-l> "I come not to praise Django and GAE, but to bury them"
[13:34] <brousch> the talk, not the django and gae
[13:35] <brousch> i will strongly consider this
[13:38] <brousch> now you've got my subconscious working on it. dangit you two
[13:39] <snap-l> You're welcome. :)
[13:39] <greg-g> well done guys :)
[13:39]  * brousch opens up a new evernote note
[13:55] <rick_h_> bwuhaha, my work is done
[13:56] <brousch> hopefully they will put me against rick_h_ and no one will attend ;)
[13:57] <rick_h_> hah, I'll get to come and yell "Amen!" from the back while the django lovers get confused looks on their faces
[13:57] <brousch> there wasn't a lot of django there last year
[13:58] <rick_h_> yea
[13:58] <rick_h_> it needs some more good material for sure
[14:17] <snap-l> Yay, morning conference calls.
[14:18] <rick_h_> wheee
[14:20] <rick_h_> this is crazy: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/06/criticism-and-takedown-how-review-sites-can-defend-free-speech.ars
[14:20] <rick_h_> I'm really thinking I need to find a time machine
[14:21] <rick_h_> I can't believe the crap going down these days
[14:31] <tjagoda> Lets all go back to 1955
[14:32] <tjagoda> When life was simple, and we only had to worry about the commie bastard russians.
[14:39] <snap-l> rick_h_: Unfortunately a lot of misconceptions are coming to roost.
[14:40] <snap-l> the idea that you can control how people perceive you, and that ideas are property.
[14:41] <rick_h_> snap-l: this with the whole "by signing up for ATT you agree you can never class action lawsuit us.."
[14:42] <rick_h_> all the legalese to try to protect one's branch is just getting crazy
[14:42] <rick_h_> what happened to just not pissing off the customer?
[14:42] <_stink_> too expensive.
[14:43] <rick_h_> I guess :/
[14:43] <tjagoda> Our world is broken
[14:43] <tjagoda> Somebody please figure out how to fix it/restore liberty as an American value?
[14:56] <snap-l> forget liberty, I want the right to bitch
[14:59] <rick_h_> ok seriously? opendns can't find stackoverflow?
[14:59] <snap-l> actually, don't forget libery. ;)
[14:59] <rick_h_> StackOverflow.RegEasyPro.com
[14:59] <rick_h_> yea, that's what I wanted
[14:59] <rick_h_> wtf opendns
[15:00] <snap-l> Ugh, that sucks
[15:00] <rick_h_> if our CHC caribout gets this crap setup I think it'll be time to find a new location
[15:00] <snap-l> That's partially why I use Google DNS
[15:00] <rick_h_> caribou that is
[15:00] <rick_h_> well it's at the router here :/
[15:00] <snap-l> Where are you at? Caribou by you?
[15:00] <rick_h_> yea
[15:00] <rick_h_> they've got this new wireless setup with the "login" gateway, etc
[15:01] <snap-l> Royal Oak has it as well
[15:01] <snap-l> I think it's a good sign that the Madison Heights one DOESN'T have it
[15:01] <rick_h_> I was checking out the verizon 4g mifi rentals scene last night
[15:01] <rick_h_> makes me want to skip rental and get one :)
[15:01] <snap-l> orly? :)
[15:01] <rick_h_> yea, was thinking might be  better off just renting for pyohio/olf, etc
[15:02] <rick_h_> easier to get the wifely approval than a 2yr contract
[15:02] <snap-l> Yeah, I can imagine
[15:03] <snap-l> If I went to more conferences, I could see purchasing one.
[15:03] <rick_h_> yea, I'd love one right now
[15:03] <snap-l> Well, I could see it anyway, but it's a little harder to justify.
[15:04] <snap-l> rick_h_: Don't you have a machine you could tunnel to at home?
[15:04] <snap-l> That's how I get around a lot of the crap wifi stuff
[15:04] <rick_h_> snap-l: yea, just haven't bothered setting up
[15:04] <rick_h_> I don't come up here very often
[15:04] <snap-l> Not that much effort to set up
[15:05] <snap-l> just have a SSH tunnel, and you're golden.
[15:14] <rick_h_> bah, no 4g where we're heading in june
[15:14] <rick_h_> there goes the desire to get one this month
[15:32] <brousch> rick_h_: how much is a mifi and what's the data cap?
[15:39] <rick_h_> brousch: one place I saw was 1wk rental with 2gb cap for $149
[15:39] <rick_h_> and then it was another $20 for another 2gb
[15:39] <rick_h_> if I go month to month the mifi costs me $249 + $50-80/mo for data
[15:39] <brousch> ouch
[15:39] <rick_h_> yea
[15:40] <rick_h_> and if I go contract then it's $50/mo data + $99 for the mifi
[15:40] <rick_h_> but the 50 is more 60 after taxes, etc
[15:40] <rick_h_> but I do get an 8% discount with verizon through work
[15:40] <rick_h_> but not a big diff
[16:56] <jrwren> opendns sucks.
[16:56] <jrwren> run your own, or use google :)
[16:56] <jrwren> or run your own and use google as the forwarder :)
[16:58] <rick_h_> I had to figure out how to tweak dhclient config to prepend with google dns
[16:58] <rick_h_> much better now
[16:58] <rick_h_> only thing now is that dhclient refreshes and wipes my dns added for the vpn conneciton
[17:01] <brousch> cron job to fix it every minute ;)
[17:40] <tjagoda> Yaaay
[17:40] <tjagoda> new interwebz
[17:45] <snap-l> w00t
[17:48] <brousch> lookit dem toobz!
[17:50] <snap-l> I swear, whenever it comes to scheduling family events, I blow it no matter what
[17:51] <snap-l> But then JoDee gets upset when I don't want to schedule anything
[17:51] <brousch> Doodle
[17:51] <snap-l> No amount of technology can fix the underlying problem.
[17:51] <snap-l> which is that she doesn't want to do it in the first place. :)
[17:52] <snap-l> and that my mom generally is hell-bent on doing something
[17:52] <snap-l> It's one of those areas that men cannot win
[17:54] <jrwren> i just give up and do wahtever my wife tells me.
[17:54] <jrwren> the only way to win, is not to play
[17:56] <snap-l> Who is John S. Gruber?
[17:57] <jrwren> blogger?
[17:57] <snap-l> Apparently he's maintaining the Lernd package, acc. to Jono's latest blog post
[17:57] <snap-l> No, not John Gruber
[17:57] <snap-l> https://launchpad.net/~jsjgruber
[17:57] <jrwren> yeah.
[17:57] <jrwren> lernd?
[17:57] <rick_h_> the python snippet tool
[17:58] <snap-l> lernid.
[17:58] <jrwren> lernid?
[17:58] <rick_h_> oh sorry, wrong tool
[17:58] <rick_h_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lernid
[17:58] <snap-l> Apparently he's also a MUG member, or at least I saw his name last night at the MUG meeting
[17:58] <rick_h_> jono did that quickly app that was part irc, part slideshow viewer, part something
[17:58] <snap-l> Yeah
[17:59] <snap-l> Wondering if he's active in the Loco, and if we could get him to talk about it at the next MUG meeting
[18:00] <jrwren> no link to a project page :( http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/natty/lernid/natty/view/head:/debian/control
[18:01] <jcastro> he's a local
[18:01] <jcastro> he comes to the ann arborish events
[18:03] <snap-l> Ah, OK.
[18:22] <greg-g> what the flip, did no one use mutt with large maildir folders during the dev of natty? I keep getting stupid errors (I'll dig up the bug I found yesterday in a bit)
[18:22] <rick_h_> uh oh :/
[18:24] <greg-g> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutt/+bug/723221
[18:24] <greg-g> fixed in debian: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=620854
[18:25] <rick_h_> ah, suck
[18:25] <rick_h_> guess I don't use -patched anyway though
[18:25] <rick_h_> so no sidebar issues
[18:26]  * greg-g likes his sidebars to know if anything needs his attention in lesser used mailboxes
[18:26] <rick_h_> yea, when offlineimap updates I get the list in the bottom of my window
[18:26] <rick_h_> and hitting . will list dirs with new files
[18:27] <greg-g> huh, hadn't used that beore "."
[18:27] <greg-g> but, i'm bad and keep some messages in folders marked as unread to get back to later, so it fills up the bottom of my screen (ie: isn't totally useful)
[18:27] <rick_h_> yea, use that all the time
[18:28] <rick_h_> yea, I use that with a shortcut nn to mark all as read to hit mailing lists every so often
[18:28] <rick_h_> plus when you hit c (and nothing else) it'll defautl to a folder with unread
[18:28] <rick_h_> so I find myself, every so often, doing a c<enter>
[18:28] <rick_h_> read, read, nn
[18:28] <rick_h_> c<enter>
[18:28] <rick_h_> but I also have shortcuts to the main folders for each accounts
[18:29] <rick_h_> gm (go to mitechie inbox)
[18:29] <rick_h_> gp (go to morpace inbox)
[18:29] <rick_h_> gs (go to morpace support folder for tickets)
[18:29] <greg-g> right right, I have z1, z2, z3 as my 3 inboxes
[18:29] <rick_h_> yea, so I only use . when I'm looking for extra stuff to catch up on anyway
[18:31] <greg-g> huh, and c, never used that either. i can see how these are useful without the sidebar
[18:54] <snap-l> Anyone know how to encode a character in Python as unicode?
[18:54] <jrwren> use 3.x ?
[18:54] <rick_h_> unicode(str)
[18:55] <rick_h_> has to be encoded in something known up front though
[18:55] <rick_h_> so depends on what you're doing
[18:55] <snap-l> Trying to send over Chinese characters. ;)
[18:55] <rick_h_> what's the source of the text?
[18:56] <rick_h_> if it's a file you need to make sure you're doing something like codecs.open() or that the file is utf8/etc to start
[18:56] <rick_h_> I just got through doing all this chinese fun
[18:56] <snap-l> I just want to send over a simple string
[18:56] <snap-l> but I'm having a bitch of a time encoding it
[18:56] <rick_h_> so you're copying/pasting the text into your script?
[18:56] <rick_h_> the chinese character string?
[18:56] <snap-l> Tried that first, then tried escaping it
[18:57] <rick_h_> so if you're creating a string of unicode characters you have to u'something'
[18:57] <snap-l> Even if there's some page that could simply tell me what to do, I'd love that.
[18:57] <rick_h_> the u says this isn't a normal string, but a unicode version
[18:57] <snap-l> I've tried that, and it seems to get botched up
[18:57] <rick_h_> it's scattered all over the map unfortunately. It all depends on where the data is coming from, going to, etc
[18:57] <snap-l> blergh
[18:57] <rick_h_> have your script up on pastebin?
[18:57] <snap-l> no, not right ow
[18:58] <rick_h_> if you want can take a peek, also CHC if you want
[18:58] <rick_h_> but basically have to trace the text from the whole script lifecycle tracking what 'format' it's in each step of the way
[18:58] <snap-l> problem is I'm not sure if the fault is with my script or with the system that I'm using
[18:58] <rick_h_> right
[18:59] <snap-l> Holy shit, now it's working.
[18:59] <rick_h_> coolio
[18:59] <snap-l> some days I really hate computers. :)
[19:01] <snap-l> Even better, I need to do some investigation on UTF-16
[19:01] <brousch> unicode is a bitch
[19:01] <brousch> makes me want to punch babies
[19:01] <rick_h_> yea, and UTF-16LE and more and more
[19:01] <snap-l> English is good enough for God, so it should be good enough for everyone else.
[19:01] <snap-l> (I love how ignorant that statement is)
[19:02] <_stink_> will you CC license that so i can put it on my business card?
[19:03] <snap-l> _stink_: Author unknown
[19:03] <_stink_> sounds like you are encouraging copyright infringement
[19:04] <snap-l> It's attributed to a bunch of folks
[19:06] <snap-l> Wow, OpenOffice is now an Apache project
[19:07] <snap-l> I have a feeling the only folks that will be investing in OO.o and not Libreoffice are IBM.
[19:09] <jrwren> they will probably merge back together now that sunoracle is gone
[19:21] <rick_h_> I have dir sample/testdir/filesx..
[19:21] <rick_h_> and I want to create a tar of only testdir/filesxxx
[19:21] <rick_h_> without the sample?
[19:22] <rick_h_> any hints on how to flag that in tar czf?
[19:22] <jrwren> chdir before you tar :)
[19:23] <rick_h_> yea, but then the file is in the spot I don't want, etc.
[19:23] <jrwren> or invoke tar with -C
[19:23] <rick_h_> oh well, just making sure I wasn't missing something everyone else knew
[19:23] <rick_h_> I tried that but kept getting an archive called C
[19:23] <jrwren> tar -C sample -czf output testdir/filesxxx
[19:24] <jrwren> or
[19:24] <_stink_> can't just do 'tar cvzf sample/testdir/{something}'?
[19:24] <jrwren> err... no or.
[19:24] <_stink_> er
[19:24] <_stink_> you know
[19:24] <rick_h_> bah, that works
[19:24] <_stink_> can't just do 'tar cvzf blah.tar.gz sample/testdir/{something}'?
[19:24] <jrwren> yeah, what _stink_ asys too?
[19:24] <rick_h_> when I do that, the archive contains an outer dir sample
[19:24] <jrwren> err.. right.
[19:24] <_stink_> oh i see
[19:24] <rick_h_> when I extract, I don't want sample as part of the result
[19:24] <_stink_> sorry, right
[19:24] <_stink_> yeah
[19:24] <_stink_> gotcha now
[19:25] <rick_h_> I think the -C is working
[19:25] <rick_h_> I wasn't using a - flag on my czf
[19:25] <rick_h_> I think that confused it
[19:25] <rick_h_> tar czf vs tar -czf
[19:25] <snap-l> You can also rsync the files to a tmp directory, and then tar them. ;)
[19:25] <rick_h_> well I am writing a python script, might as well tar = TarFile();tar.add(sample/blah/blah.py) one by one :P
[19:26] <_stink_> hah
[19:26] <snap-l> I wish Google Voice had the ability to discern if callers are going to leave a voice mail
[19:26] <snap-l> and if not, then it doesn't ring my phone at all.
[19:26] <rick_h_> mind reading, that's a good feature
[19:26] <snap-l> I'd pay an extra $1 for that
[19:26] <greg-g> just build into g-voice whatever it was that was built into the elevators in H2G2
[19:27] <jrwren> rolf @ the rsync
[19:27] <jrwren> Down is nice too.
[19:27] <snap-l> jrwren: Don't tell me you've never done that. ;)
[19:27] <jrwren> i don't actually recall doing it... but you are right, i probably have.
[19:56] <rick_h_> umm really?! http://techcrunch.com/2011/06/01/twitter-photos-search/
[20:00] <Blazeix> photobucket? they're still around?
[20:00] <rick_h_> no kidding
[20:02] <brousch> are you kidding me? I just bought a Cr-48 at lunch and now google sends me an invite to a pre-sale for the new google chromebook
[20:02] <rick_h_> brought?
[20:02] <rick_h_> bought?
[20:02] <brousch> yeah
[20:02] <brousch> off a guy that didn't want it
[20:02] <rick_h_> I didn't know they sold any
[20:03] <brousch> technically not supposed to sell them
[20:03] <rick_h_> oh, well come on man, they annouced back at google io they were going to have new dual core models coming in June
[20:03] <brousch> yeah, but it's not supposed to be for 2 weeks
[20:03] <rick_h_> so you're mad you got an email 2wk ahead of launch you knew was coming?
[20:04] <brousch> if it had come 4 hours ago i might not have bought the cr-48
[20:04] <brousch> ah well, the samsung chromebook is $500
[20:04] <brousch> more than i want to spend right now
[20:05] <rick_h_> yea, they're both over $400
[20:05] <brousch> this is not an announcement of the june 15 launch, this is an invite to an early release sale, so i could buy it now
[20:05] <rick_h_> you should have told me you wanted to buy one :P
[20:05] <rick_h_> ah, interesting
[20:05] <brousch> i may want more ;)
[20:05] <brousch> i have a feeling my son will take over this one
[20:05] <rick_h_> yea, I just moved mine out of the way again
[20:05] <rick_h_> just nothing over my laptop so I don't use it much
[20:05] <rick_h_> but still like it so don't get rid of it
[20:06] <brousch> i'm excited about it. i think it will be great for tech-impared parents and grandparents
[20:07] <rick_h_> yea, my uncle uses it when he comes over
[20:08] <brousch> i thought these things were supposed to be super cheap
[20:08] <rick_h_> heh, well they have 3g, more storage, dual cores, people want nice hardware
[20:08] <rick_h_> I mean, think about how much that cell phone of yours costs, and that's a smaller display
[20:09] <brousch> $99
[20:09] <rick_h_> oh right...hahahahahahahahahaha
[20:09] <rick_h_> I'll let google know to start sending you an $80/mo bill right away
[20:10] <brousch> i think they have the same storage and ram as the cr-48
[20:10] <rick_h_> I think they were supposed to have a little more storage since they support pluggin in sdcards and such for loading photos
[20:10] <rick_h_> plus the sdcard slot, the support for the usb cameras/etc
[20:10] <brousch> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromebook
[20:11] <rick_h_> gotcha
[20:13] <jrwren> why buya  chrome book?
[20:13] <jrwren> you can just download a chromeOS build adn run it on your laptop.
[20:13] <brousch> i did that. it was an annoying layer on suse
[20:13] <jrwren> oh, it was suse? I didn't notice that when i watched it boot :)
[20:14] <brousch> opensuse
[20:16] <brousch> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/Screen%20shot%202011-06-01%20at%203.15.18%20PM.png
[20:16] <rick_h_> heh, only selling the 3g model eh
[20:16] <brousch> i guess
[20:16] <rick_h_> the 3g is cool, 100mb in a crisis is some worthy bandwidth for free
[20:17] <brousch> true
[20:17] <brousch> GR just had its verizon 4g turned on today
[20:17] <rick_h_> yea, we've got it out here so I'm itching whenever I hit crappy wifi out there
[20:18] <rick_h_> but I spent 2yr on an ATT contract with a pcmcia modem
[20:18] <rick_h_> ugh for another contract
[20:19] <rick_h_> ok brousch hit you up to the pyohio crew so you get a bonus point
[20:19] <rick_h_> now you HAVE to submit :P
[20:21] <brousch> yeah, i put it out there so i'd feel more guilt if i didn't follow through ;)
[20:42] <jrwren> this is sweet http://dev.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/software-updates-courgette
[20:43] <brousch> jrwren: that is pretty cool
[20:45] <jrwren> its kinda nuts that it disassembles and reassembles
[20:45] <brousch> Is it? I have no idea
[20:46] <jrwren> well, think about it.
[20:47] <jrwren> lets take native x86 or x64 code, turn it back into asm, diff that, ship that, then let the cilent turn the asm back into x86 or x64
[20:47] <jrwren> that is practically like recompiling on teh client side.
[20:47] <jrwren> it means they ship an assembler as part of the diff program AFAICT
[20:58] <snap-l> I can't believe they're selling these at $400 a pop
[20:58] <snap-l> Pretty crippled machines, if you ask me.
[20:59] <snap-l> (the chrome laptops)
[20:59] <brousch> $500
[20:59] <brousch> the asus will be $400, but they have smaller screens
[20:59] <snap-l> Even worse
[20:59] <brousch> supposedly you can install linux ;)
[21:00] <snap-l> I can do that on just about any machine
[21:00] <snap-l> $199 would have been my limit for buying a chrome book
[21:00] <snap-l> but $500 is too expensive for a crippled machine
[21:07] <brousch> yeah, this thing would have to rock to spend $500 on it
[21:08] <brousch> i was expecting a $200 price point
[21:10] <rick_h_> really? I mean for $200 you can't get a ton of electronic gear
[21:10] <rick_h_> I mean, an LCD tv is 300/400
[21:11] <_stink_> i think it has more to do with the cost for a bottom of the line laptop.
[21:11] <_stink_> like what, $400?
[21:11] <_stink_> for a normal laptop?
[21:11] <rick_h_> I mean the ereaders are barely at that price point
[21:11] <_stink_> but bottom of the line?
[21:11] <rick_h_> yea, but these are better hardware than bottom of the line
[21:11] <rick_h_> and that price point is with 3g and subsidized 100mb/mo of 3g service
[21:12] <rick_h_> to expect a laptop, running flash, with cpu, memory, radios, etc for $200 is nuts
[21:12] <rick_h_> this thing is a laptop, it's only the OS that's different. Sure, a smaller hard drive, but still just a low end laptop
[21:12] <brousch> but these are supposed to be disposable
[21:12] <brousch> $500 is not disposable
[21:12] <rick_h_> that cell phone is $500 and people treat those as disposable
[21:12] <rick_h_> how many lost/etc smart phones per year
[21:13] <jjesse> i was suprised by cost as well
[21:13] <jjesse> do they come w/ cell contract or something to keep you always connected?
[21:13] <brousch> no one pays $500, they pay $99 and then the rest is rolled into the monthly bill
[21:13] <rick_h_> right, these come sans monthly bill, you're welcome
[21:13] <brousch> and i don't know anyone that treats a smartphone as disposable
[21:13] <rick_h_> that doesn't negate the fact that if you lose your smartphone, you're not getting a second for $99
[21:13] <rick_h_> I just mean that people lose/drop them and go buy another
[21:13] <rick_h_> that's disposable
[21:14] <rick_h_> they give $500 iphones to their 11yr olds
[21:14] <rick_h_> that's disposable
[21:14] <brousch> for $500 i can get an ipad2. why would i choose a bulky chromebook?
[21:15] <rick_h_> bulky? you mean a 12" little machine with a full sized keyboard?
[21:15] <_stink_> for the OS, i guess
[21:15] <rick_h_> because you want to plug in a camera and upload photos
[21:15] <brousch> the OS is a stripped-down linux with a web browser
[21:15] <rick_h_> that's why
[21:15] <_stink_> i think i had a preconception that chromeos would be shipped on total piece of shit, cheap hardware.
[21:15] <rick_h_> because you want to hook up a webcam and do a conference call
[21:16] <rick_h_> no, they're trying to sell these to school's/businesses
[21:16] <brousch> ipads have cameras now :P
[21:16] <rick_h_> they can't be crap hardware that dies every 6mo
[21:16] <_stink_> if it's targeted to businesses, then i can see $500 as a reasonable price
[21:16] <rick_h_> brousch: heh, yes they have a camera that's hailed across the tablet verse as "crap" and that's the nicer backside one
[21:16] <brousch> _stink_: i agree. i had the impression of a netbook-like hardware for cheap
[21:17] <brousch> maybe it will get to that point
[21:17] <rick_h_> that's exacltyh why they've never said "netbook" in any accouncement/press release
[21:17] <brousch> these are the first few models
[21:17] <rick_h_> they've always said notebook, always been at least 12"
[21:17] <rick_h_> the thing is the same size as my x201, but 1/4 the price
[21:17] <brousch> the asus is 11.6" :P
[21:18] <rick_h_> whatever, got me there
[21:18] <brousch> don't get me wrong, i want it to succeed
[21:19] <brousch> which is why i'd like to see it for cheaper
[21:19] <rick_h_> I don't want crap hardware. The touchpad and screen on this cr-48 leave a lot to be desired
[21:19] <rick_h_> if people are going to use this thing, travel with it, etc it needs to hold up to use better than a $500 toshiba laptop crap machine
[21:19] <brousch> 1280x800 at 12" is better resolution than my mbp
[21:19] <rick_h_> apple puts crap displays on their laptops
[21:20] <rick_h_> I go nuts whenever I think about peeking at them
[21:20] <jrwren> not to mention its basically useless offline, right?
[21:20] <jrwren> I mean, how many chrome apps do offline mode?
[21:20] <rick_h_> jrwren: but with 3g built in, that's rarer
[21:20] <jrwren> if you are urban, sure.
[21:20] <rick_h_> and they announced this June/july most of the google apps would get offline mode
[21:20] <brousch> well it has a 16GB SSD and SD slot, so it must have some offline capabilities
[21:20] <jrwren> but what if you are country folk?
[21:20] <rick_h_> not for everyone
[21:21] <rick_h_> I'm not arguing that, but for schools/businesses with wifi, mobile workforce using web based CRM packages, etc
[21:21] <jrwren> yeah, a giant browser cache and space for html5 -data :)
[21:21] <rick_h_> they're not bad machines, more solid than a cheap laptop at that point
[21:21] <jrwren> oh sure, it has some great use cases.
[21:21] <brousch> my dad and wife's parents are in the boondocks and they get verizon signal. i think connectivity is becoming less of a problem
[21:21] <jrwren> 3G ?
[21:21] <rick_h_> my aunt in VA has no signal to any carrier
[21:22] <brousch> sometimes
[21:22] <rick_h_> I mean no signal, not normal, edge, or 4g
[21:22] <rick_h_> 3g
[21:22] <jrwren> I can drive through town and story is same for ATT & VZ... 3G, E, no coverage, 3G E, no coverage :)
[21:22] <rick_h_> so there are places, but I think that's a minority of the market
[21:22] <jrwren> yeah, down my street there is a no signal zone :)
[21:22] <jrwren> i was on MSFT campus and there was a dead hallway with no signal!!!
[21:23] <brousch> if these things get down to $200, i can maybe put them in the shop
[21:23] <brousch> they won't last a year out there, but maybe at that price it's worth it
[21:23] <rick_h_> for a business you get in bed with the monthly sub program
[21:23] <rick_h_> then you get replacements, etc
[21:23] <rick_h_> thing dies, get a new one sent to you
[21:24] <brousch> that could work
[21:24] <jrwren> i think it might be good for old laptops.
[21:24] <jrwren> because ubuntu doesn't run on old laptops... maybe chromos will :)
[21:24] <rick_h_> right now it doesn't run on intel does it?
[21:24] <rick_h_> natively?
[21:25] <brousch> and it really makes my web-based version of our internal software look much more valuable
[21:25] <jrwren> there are 3rd party builds.
[21:25] <jrwren> i don't think the google builds are exactly open source.
[21:25] <jrwren> its more like the android model.
[21:25] <rick_h_> right
[21:25] <rick_h_> brousch: oh definitely, things like quickbooks online and such make a TON more sense in this model
[21:26] <rick_h_> especially because these things are so locked down, leaking your .qbk file or whatnot is much much harder if not near impossible
[21:26] <jrwren> tablets have made web based internal apps a *good thing*  too
[21:26] <rick_h_> yea, but many of those business apps really require a keyboard
[21:26] <brousch> well, quickbooks specifically will not be replaced, but our access/foxpro systems will be
[21:26] <rick_h_> I look at all the data entry my wife does in her medical mgt software
[21:26] <rick_h_> they talk about ipad versions, but man, that would just suck
[21:26] <jrwren> yeah, that would suck BIG TIME
[21:27] <rick_h_> I think a lot of the use cases, insurance adjusters, etc fall under that same model
[21:27] <rick_h_> but yea, as PoS stuff, an ipad would rock
[21:27] <rick_h_> the square solution for that is so interesting
[21:27] <brousch> square?
[21:27] <rick_h_> give one to a few employees roaming the store helping employees and ditch the old idea of the checkout line
[21:27] <jrwren> i think you are very right.
[21:28] <rick_h_> http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/03/square-ipad/
[21:28] <jrwren> prior to that apple store employees actually used Windows CE 6.x devices to check you out!!!
[21:28] <rick_h_> not saying it'd work everywhere, but would make for some interesting tests/themes out there
[21:29] <brousch> ah, the comic book store had me use that a month or so ago
[21:29] <rick_h_> yea, it's pretty interesting. Penguicon used one of their readers for doing CC payments this year
[21:30] <rick_h_> ok, time to go finish up and get the boy. How much time left before CHC?!
[21:34] <brousch> speaking of 4g, one of the windows guys reports: Using speediest on thunderbolt, 25.42 down, 1.47 up
[21:34] <brousch> speedtest i think he means
[21:34] <jrwren> CHC??? ppfff... I'm speaking at AACS tonight!  Come hear that!
[21:36] <brousch> whowha?
[22:31] <snap-l> I <3 my wife
[22:31] <snap-l> she brings home some neat toys
[22:33] <snap-l> This is an old  SUn Ray terminal that doesn't appear to have anything to talk do
[22:33] <snap-l> to, rather
[23:07] <brousch_> am i here now?
[23:07] <brousch_> ok, the cr-48 is nice!
[23:08] <brousch_> excellent touchpad. rick_h_ i don't know what you're complaining about
[23:13] <brousch_> not quite MBP quality, but better than most other PC touchpads