[00:17] greg-g: ping [00:36] jammcq: pong [00:39] hey [00:39] sitting here with Craig and other mug guys. [00:39] Hey jammcq :) [00:39] we're putting some info on the mug website for the june 14th meeting [00:39] hey snap-l [00:39] take a peek at http://www.mug.org [00:39] i'd like to add more if you have anything to add [00:41] jammcq: looks good so far, I don't have much more. Could you link "Michigan Ubuntu Loco" to http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-michigan [00:41] yep [00:41] I'm emailing the list once more to call for participation [00:42] greg-g: ok, link is working [00:44] awesome, thanks [00:47] (sent the email to the list) [01:18] thanks greg-g, that was on my todo [01:22] yeah, mine too, but I hadn't been using my todo manager for a while and I honestly kind of forgot about it [01:22] yea, meant to catch it this weekend, but you see how well that went [04:09] Maybe I should do a short presentation on using todo.sh. ;) [11:55] :) [12:24] Kyarrr [13:26] Good morning [13:26] party [13:26] g'morn [13:26] brousch: you submitting a talk to PyOhio? [13:26] you should :P [13:26] Stupid computer locked up last night, which is why I wasn't on overnight [13:27] lame [13:27] well crap, now you missed all the afk excitement [13:27] Yeah, I figured as much [13:27] rick_h_: i wish i had something [13:27] The parade of AFK [13:27] stupid unity wouldn't work with dual screens this morning when I got to work, had to restart X [13:29] Ugh [13:29] brousch: oh come on, no cool GAE, flask, django goodness to chat about for 30min? [13:30] gae and django have annoyed me too much [13:30] well, happy to see I'm not the only one :) [13:30] i could talk about how the complexity of django and the limitations of gae have driven me to flask and amazon ;) [13:31] think about it, not all good talks are "yay here's how this saved my life" talks [13:31] some of the best are "lessons learned form xxx" stuff [13:31] i have 2 days? [13:31] to submit it [13:31] the hardest part about that talk would be exposing my ignorance [13:31] not to write it [13:32] brousch: then a good way to approach it would be that route [13:32] "django and GAE, how I failed my tools" or something [13:32] brousch: No better way to learn than to give a talk about it [13:32] make some great open space material afterwards [13:32] Django and GAE: It should have worked. [13:33] for everything! [13:33] hah! [13:33] Django and GAE: Why I'm using Flask and Amazon EC2 [13:33] nice [13:34] i think i could make it work [13:34] "I come not to praise Django and GAE, but to bury them" [13:34] the talk, not the django and gae [13:35] i will strongly consider this [13:38] now you've got my subconscious working on it. dangit you two [13:39] You're welcome. :) [13:39] well done guys :) [13:39] * brousch opens up a new evernote note [13:55] bwuhaha, my work is done [13:56] hopefully they will put me against rick_h_ and no one will attend ;) [13:57] hah, I'll get to come and yell "Amen!" from the back while the django lovers get confused looks on their faces [13:57] there wasn't a lot of django there last year [13:58] yea [13:58] it needs some more good material for sure [14:17] Yay, morning conference calls. [14:18] wheee [14:20] this is crazy: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/06/criticism-and-takedown-how-review-sites-can-defend-free-speech.ars [14:20] I'm really thinking I need to find a time machine [14:21] I can't believe the crap going down these days [14:31] Lets all go back to 1955 [14:32] When life was simple, and we only had to worry about the commie bastard russians. [14:39] rick_h_: Unfortunately a lot of misconceptions are coming to roost. [14:40] the idea that you can control how people perceive you, and that ideas are property. [14:41] snap-l: this with the whole "by signing up for ATT you agree you can never class action lawsuit us.." [14:42] all the legalese to try to protect one's branch is just getting crazy [14:42] what happened to just not pissing off the customer? [14:42] <_stink_> too expensive. [14:43] I guess :/ [14:43] Our world is broken [14:43] Somebody please figure out how to fix it/restore liberty as an American value? [14:56] forget liberty, I want the right to bitch [14:59] ok seriously? opendns can't find stackoverflow? [14:59] actually, don't forget libery. ;) [14:59] StackOverflow.RegEasyPro.com [14:59] yea, that's what I wanted [14:59] wtf opendns [15:00] Ugh, that sucks [15:00] if our CHC caribout gets this crap setup I think it'll be time to find a new location [15:00] That's partially why I use Google DNS [15:00] caribou that is [15:00] well it's at the router here :/ [15:00] Where are you at? Caribou by you? [15:00] yea [15:00] they've got this new wireless setup with the "login" gateway, etc [15:01] Royal Oak has it as well [15:01] I think it's a good sign that the Madison Heights one DOESN'T have it [15:01] I was checking out the verizon 4g mifi rentals scene last night [15:01] makes me want to skip rental and get one :) [15:01] orly? :) [15:01] yea, was thinking might be better off just renting for pyohio/olf, etc [15:02] easier to get the wifely approval than a 2yr contract [15:02] Yeah, I can imagine [15:03] If I went to more conferences, I could see purchasing one. [15:03] yea, I'd love one right now [15:03] Well, I could see it anyway, but it's a little harder to justify. [15:04] rick_h_: Don't you have a machine you could tunnel to at home? [15:04] That's how I get around a lot of the crap wifi stuff [15:04] snap-l: yea, just haven't bothered setting up [15:04] I don't come up here very often [15:04] Not that much effort to set up [15:05] just have a SSH tunnel, and you're golden. [15:14] bah, no 4g where we're heading in june [15:14] there goes the desire to get one this month [15:32] rick_h_: how much is a mifi and what's the data cap? [15:39] brousch: one place I saw was 1wk rental with 2gb cap for $149 [15:39] and then it was another $20 for another 2gb [15:39] if I go month to month the mifi costs me $249 + $50-80/mo for data [15:39] ouch [15:39] yea [15:40] and if I go contract then it's $50/mo data + $99 for the mifi [15:40] but the 50 is more 60 after taxes, etc [15:40] but I do get an 8% discount with verizon through work [15:40] but not a big diff [16:56] opendns sucks. [16:56] run your own, or use google :) [16:56] or run your own and use google as the forwarder :) [16:58] I had to figure out how to tweak dhclient config to prepend with google dns [16:58] much better now [16:58] only thing now is that dhclient refreshes and wipes my dns added for the vpn conneciton [17:01] cron job to fix it every minute ;) [17:40] Yaaay [17:40] new interwebz [17:45] w00t [17:48] lookit dem toobz! [17:50] I swear, whenever it comes to scheduling family events, I blow it no matter what [17:51] But then JoDee gets upset when I don't want to schedule anything [17:51] Doodle [17:51] No amount of technology can fix the underlying problem. [17:51] which is that she doesn't want to do it in the first place. :) [17:52] and that my mom generally is hell-bent on doing something [17:52] It's one of those areas that men cannot win [17:54] i just give up and do wahtever my wife tells me. [17:54] the only way to win, is not to play [17:56] Who is John S. Gruber? [17:57] blogger? [17:57] Apparently he's maintaining the Lernd package, acc. to Jono's latest blog post [17:57] No, not John Gruber [17:57] https://launchpad.net/~jsjgruber [17:57] yeah. [17:57] lernd? [17:57] the python snippet tool [17:58] lernid. [17:58] lernid? [17:58] oh sorry, wrong tool [17:58] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lernid [17:58] Apparently he's also a MUG member, or at least I saw his name last night at the MUG meeting [17:58] jono did that quickly app that was part irc, part slideshow viewer, part something [17:58] Yeah [17:59] Wondering if he's active in the Loco, and if we could get him to talk about it at the next MUG meeting [18:00] no link to a project page :( http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/natty/lernid/natty/view/head:/debian/control [18:01] he's a local [18:01] he comes to the ann arborish events [18:03] Ah, OK. [18:22] what the flip, did no one use mutt with large maildir folders during the dev of natty? I keep getting stupid errors (I'll dig up the bug I found yesterday in a bit) [18:22] uh oh :/ [18:24] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutt/+bug/723221 [18:24] fixed in debian: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=620854 [18:25] ah, suck [18:25] guess I don't use -patched anyway though [18:25] so no sidebar issues [18:26] * greg-g likes his sidebars to know if anything needs his attention in lesser used mailboxes [18:26] yea, when offlineimap updates I get the list in the bottom of my window [18:26] and hitting . will list dirs with new files [18:27] huh, hadn't used that beore "." [18:27] but, i'm bad and keep some messages in folders marked as unread to get back to later, so it fills up the bottom of my screen (ie: isn't totally useful) [18:27] yea, use that all the time [18:28] yea, I use that with a shortcut nn to mark all as read to hit mailing lists every so often [18:28] plus when you hit c (and nothing else) it'll defautl to a folder with unread [18:28] so I find myself, every so often, doing a c [18:28] read, read, nn [18:28] c [18:28] but I also have shortcuts to the main folders for each accounts [18:29] gm (go to mitechie inbox) [18:29] gp (go to morpace inbox) [18:29] gs (go to morpace support folder for tickets) [18:29] right right, I have z1, z2, z3 as my 3 inboxes [18:29] yea, so I only use . when I'm looking for extra stuff to catch up on anyway [18:31] huh, and c, never used that either. i can see how these are useful without the sidebar [18:54] Anyone know how to encode a character in Python as unicode? [18:54] use 3.x ? [18:54] unicode(str) [18:55] has to be encoded in something known up front though [18:55] so depends on what you're doing [18:55] Trying to send over Chinese characters. ;) [18:55] what's the source of the text? [18:56] if it's a file you need to make sure you're doing something like codecs.open() or that the file is utf8/etc to start [18:56] I just got through doing all this chinese fun [18:56] I just want to send over a simple string [18:56] but I'm having a bitch of a time encoding it [18:56] so you're copying/pasting the text into your script? [18:56] the chinese character string? [18:56] Tried that first, then tried escaping it [18:57] so if you're creating a string of unicode characters you have to u'something' [18:57] Even if there's some page that could simply tell me what to do, I'd love that. [18:57] the u says this isn't a normal string, but a unicode version [18:57] I've tried that, and it seems to get botched up [18:57] it's scattered all over the map unfortunately. It all depends on where the data is coming from, going to, etc [18:57] blergh [18:57] have your script up on pastebin? [18:57] no, not right ow [18:58] if you want can take a peek, also CHC if you want [18:58] but basically have to trace the text from the whole script lifecycle tracking what 'format' it's in each step of the way [18:58] problem is I'm not sure if the fault is with my script or with the system that I'm using [18:58] right [18:59] Holy shit, now it's working. [18:59] coolio [18:59] some days I really hate computers. :) [19:01] Even better, I need to do some investigation on UTF-16 [19:01] unicode is a bitch [19:01] makes me want to punch babies [19:01] yea, and UTF-16LE and more and more [19:01] English is good enough for God, so it should be good enough for everyone else. [19:01] (I love how ignorant that statement is) [19:02] <_stink_> will you CC license that so i can put it on my business card? [19:03] _stink_: Author unknown [19:03] <_stink_> sounds like you are encouraging copyright infringement [19:04] It's attributed to a bunch of folks [19:06] Wow, OpenOffice is now an Apache project [19:07] I have a feeling the only folks that will be investing in OO.o and not Libreoffice are IBM. [19:09] they will probably merge back together now that sunoracle is gone [19:21] I have dir sample/testdir/filesx.. [19:21] and I want to create a tar of only testdir/filesxxx [19:21] without the sample? [19:22] any hints on how to flag that in tar czf? [19:22] chdir before you tar :) [19:23] yea, but then the file is in the spot I don't want, etc. [19:23] or invoke tar with -C [19:23] oh well, just making sure I wasn't missing something everyone else knew [19:23] I tried that but kept getting an archive called C [19:23] tar -C sample -czf output testdir/filesxxx [19:24] or [19:24] <_stink_> can't just do 'tar cvzf sample/testdir/{something}'? [19:24] err... no or. [19:24] <_stink_> er [19:24] <_stink_> you know [19:24] bah, that works [19:24] <_stink_> can't just do 'tar cvzf blah.tar.gz sample/testdir/{something}'? [19:24] yeah, what _stink_ asys too? [19:24] when I do that, the archive contains an outer dir sample [19:24] err.. right. [19:24] <_stink_> oh i see [19:24] when I extract, I don't want sample as part of the result [19:24] <_stink_> sorry, right [19:24] <_stink_> yeah [19:24] <_stink_> gotcha now [19:25] I think the -C is working [19:25] I wasn't using a - flag on my czf [19:25] I think that confused it [19:25] tar czf vs tar -czf [19:25] You can also rsync the files to a tmp directory, and then tar them. ;) [19:25] well I am writing a python script, might as well tar = TarFile();tar.add(sample/blah/blah.py) one by one :P [19:26] <_stink_> hah [19:26] I wish Google Voice had the ability to discern if callers are going to leave a voice mail [19:26] and if not, then it doesn't ring my phone at all. [19:26] mind reading, that's a good feature [19:26] I'd pay an extra $1 for that [19:26] just build into g-voice whatever it was that was built into the elevators in H2G2 [19:27] rolf @ the rsync [19:27] Down is nice too. [19:27] jrwren: Don't tell me you've never done that. ;) [19:27] i don't actually recall doing it... but you are right, i probably have. [19:56] umm really?! http://techcrunch.com/2011/06/01/twitter-photos-search/ [20:00] photobucket? they're still around? [20:00] no kidding [20:02] are you kidding me? I just bought a Cr-48 at lunch and now google sends me an invite to a pre-sale for the new google chromebook [20:02] brought? [20:02] bought? [20:02] yeah [20:02] off a guy that didn't want it [20:02] I didn't know they sold any [20:03] technically not supposed to sell them [20:03] oh, well come on man, they annouced back at google io they were going to have new dual core models coming in June [20:03] yeah, but it's not supposed to be for 2 weeks [20:03] so you're mad you got an email 2wk ahead of launch you knew was coming? [20:04] if it had come 4 hours ago i might not have bought the cr-48 [20:04] ah well, the samsung chromebook is $500 [20:04] more than i want to spend right now [20:05] yea, they're both over $400 [20:05] this is not an announcement of the june 15 launch, this is an invite to an early release sale, so i could buy it now [20:05] you should have told me you wanted to buy one :P [20:05] ah, interesting [20:05] i may want more ;) [20:05] i have a feeling my son will take over this one [20:05] yea, I just moved mine out of the way again [20:05] just nothing over my laptop so I don't use it much [20:05] but still like it so don't get rid of it [20:06] i'm excited about it. i think it will be great for tech-impared parents and grandparents [20:07] yea, my uncle uses it when he comes over [20:08] i thought these things were supposed to be super cheap [20:08] heh, well they have 3g, more storage, dual cores, people want nice hardware [20:08] I mean, think about how much that cell phone of yours costs, and that's a smaller display [20:09] $99 [20:09] oh right...hahahahahahahahahaha [20:09] I'll let google know to start sending you an $80/mo bill right away [20:10] i think they have the same storage and ram as the cr-48 [20:10] I think they were supposed to have a little more storage since they support pluggin in sdcards and such for loading photos [20:10] plus the sdcard slot, the support for the usb cameras/etc [20:10] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromebook [20:11] gotcha [20:13] why buya chrome book? [20:13] you can just download a chromeOS build adn run it on your laptop. [20:13] i did that. it was an annoying layer on suse [20:13] oh, it was suse? I didn't notice that when i watched it boot :) [20:14] opensuse [20:16] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/Screen%20shot%202011-06-01%20at%203.15.18%20PM.png [20:16] heh, only selling the 3g model eh [20:16] i guess [20:16] the 3g is cool, 100mb in a crisis is some worthy bandwidth for free [20:17] true [20:17] GR just had its verizon 4g turned on today [20:17] yea, we've got it out here so I'm itching whenever I hit crappy wifi out there [20:18] but I spent 2yr on an ATT contract with a pcmcia modem [20:18] ugh for another contract [20:19] ok brousch hit you up to the pyohio crew so you get a bonus point [20:19] now you HAVE to submit :P [20:21] yeah, i put it out there so i'd feel more guilt if i didn't follow through ;) [20:42] this is sweet http://dev.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/software-updates-courgette [20:43] jrwren: that is pretty cool [20:45] its kinda nuts that it disassembles and reassembles [20:45] Is it? I have no idea [20:46] well, think about it. [20:47] lets take native x86 or x64 code, turn it back into asm, diff that, ship that, then let the cilent turn the asm back into x86 or x64 [20:47] that is practically like recompiling on teh client side. [20:47] it means they ship an assembler as part of the diff program AFAICT [20:58] I can't believe they're selling these at $400 a pop [20:58] Pretty crippled machines, if you ask me. [20:59] (the chrome laptops) [20:59] $500 [20:59] the asus will be $400, but they have smaller screens [20:59] Even worse [20:59] supposedly you can install linux ;) [21:00] I can do that on just about any machine [21:00] $199 would have been my limit for buying a chrome book [21:00] but $500 is too expensive for a crippled machine [21:07] yeah, this thing would have to rock to spend $500 on it [21:08] i was expecting a $200 price point [21:10] really? I mean for $200 you can't get a ton of electronic gear [21:10] I mean, an LCD tv is 300/400 [21:11] <_stink_> i think it has more to do with the cost for a bottom of the line laptop. [21:11] <_stink_> like what, $400? [21:11] <_stink_> for a normal laptop? [21:11] I mean the ereaders are barely at that price point [21:11] <_stink_> but bottom of the line? [21:11] yea, but these are better hardware than bottom of the line [21:11] and that price point is with 3g and subsidized 100mb/mo of 3g service [21:12] to expect a laptop, running flash, with cpu, memory, radios, etc for $200 is nuts [21:12] this thing is a laptop, it's only the OS that's different. Sure, a smaller hard drive, but still just a low end laptop [21:12] but these are supposed to be disposable [21:12] $500 is not disposable [21:12] that cell phone is $500 and people treat those as disposable [21:12] how many lost/etc smart phones per year [21:13] i was suprised by cost as well [21:13] do they come w/ cell contract or something to keep you always connected? [21:13] no one pays $500, they pay $99 and then the rest is rolled into the monthly bill [21:13] right, these come sans monthly bill, you're welcome [21:13] and i don't know anyone that treats a smartphone as disposable [21:13] that doesn't negate the fact that if you lose your smartphone, you're not getting a second for $99 [21:13] I just mean that people lose/drop them and go buy another [21:13] that's disposable [21:14] they give $500 iphones to their 11yr olds [21:14] that's disposable [21:14] for $500 i can get an ipad2. why would i choose a bulky chromebook? [21:15] bulky? you mean a 12" little machine with a full sized keyboard? [21:15] <_stink_> for the OS, i guess [21:15] because you want to plug in a camera and upload photos [21:15] the OS is a stripped-down linux with a web browser [21:15] that's why [21:15] <_stink_> i think i had a preconception that chromeos would be shipped on total piece of shit, cheap hardware. [21:15] because you want to hook up a webcam and do a conference call [21:16] no, they're trying to sell these to school's/businesses [21:16] ipads have cameras now :P [21:16] they can't be crap hardware that dies every 6mo [21:16] <_stink_> if it's targeted to businesses, then i can see $500 as a reasonable price [21:16] brousch: heh, yes they have a camera that's hailed across the tablet verse as "crap" and that's the nicer backside one [21:16] _stink_: i agree. i had the impression of a netbook-like hardware for cheap [21:17] maybe it will get to that point [21:17] that's exacltyh why they've never said "netbook" in any accouncement/press release [21:17] these are the first few models [21:17] they've always said notebook, always been at least 12" [21:17] the thing is the same size as my x201, but 1/4 the price [21:17] the asus is 11.6" :P [21:18] whatever, got me there [21:18] don't get me wrong, i want it to succeed [21:19] which is why i'd like to see it for cheaper [21:19] I don't want crap hardware. The touchpad and screen on this cr-48 leave a lot to be desired [21:19] if people are going to use this thing, travel with it, etc it needs to hold up to use better than a $500 toshiba laptop crap machine [21:19] 1280x800 at 12" is better resolution than my mbp [21:19] apple puts crap displays on their laptops [21:20] I go nuts whenever I think about peeking at them [21:20] not to mention its basically useless offline, right? [21:20] I mean, how many chrome apps do offline mode? [21:20] jrwren: but with 3g built in, that's rarer [21:20] if you are urban, sure. [21:20] and they announced this June/july most of the google apps would get offline mode [21:20] well it has a 16GB SSD and SD slot, so it must have some offline capabilities [21:20] but what if you are country folk? [21:20] not for everyone [21:21] I'm not arguing that, but for schools/businesses with wifi, mobile workforce using web based CRM packages, etc [21:21] yeah, a giant browser cache and space for html5 -data :) [21:21] they're not bad machines, more solid than a cheap laptop at that point [21:21] oh sure, it has some great use cases. [21:21] my dad and wife's parents are in the boondocks and they get verizon signal. i think connectivity is becoming less of a problem [21:21] 3G ? [21:21] my aunt in VA has no signal to any carrier [21:22] sometimes [21:22] I mean no signal, not normal, edge, or 4g [21:22]