[03:42] <Kokito> howdy
[03:43] <Kokito> ScottL: in case you are there, if I cannot attend the IRC meeting on Sunday, I will send you an email with a status update
[11:11] <graciasfidel> hi here
[11:13] <astraljava> o/
[12:49] <ScottL> hi graciasfidel 
[14:47] <scott-work> morning everyone :)
[14:56] <scott-work> holstein: i have topics for the meeting agenda, i'll get it on the wiki today
[14:56] <scott-work> yesterday was a bit hectic at work and i actually fleshed out the agenda during a meeting
[16:01] <scott-work> looks like jean-baptiste is proposing someone change the gcdmaster dependency on cdrdao should be bumped to 1:1.2.3-0.1ubuntu2
[16:01] <scott-work> anyone interested?
[16:01] <scott-work> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cdrdao/+bug/791467
[16:12]  * holstein looking
[16:13] <holstein> scott-work: personally, i'll be stoked when we have a live installer and no more tasksel
[16:13] <holstein> thats been broken for me for a long time
[16:13] <scott-work> holstein: this isn't a tasksel issue though
[16:13] <holstein> even when it wasnt officially broken*
[16:13] <scott-work> but i agree it will be nice to have a live installer
[16:14] <holstein> so, whats the proposal?
[16:14] <scott-work> this particular item is that a package isn't building properly and therefore can't be installed or included in our -meta package
[16:14] <holstein> i think its nice to have gcdmaster in the repos*
[16:14] <holstein> i dont think its something that needs to be default though
[16:15] <holstein> scott-work: thats something we'll have to work on *if* we go with a live installer
[16:15] <holstein> a nice software base
[16:15] <scott-work> holstein: i believe we would need to download the source, look in the /debian/control file, adjust the dependencies for gcdmaster, make a patch for it, then attach the patch to the bug report
[16:15] <holstein> i REALLY like the workflow idea
[16:15] <holstein> for metapackages and whatever else
[16:16] <holstein> scott-work: i mean, is thats something i can handle?
[16:16] <holstein> scott-work: i would like to set up a teamviewer box or something share-able
[16:17] <holstein> maybe you or someone could help me get going on some of this more advanced stuff that i just cant quite get my mind around
[16:17] <scott-work> i'm not sure what you mean by "teamviewer box"
[16:17] <scott-work> you mean etherpad?
[16:17] <holstein> scott-work: teamviewer is an easy VNC type thing
[16:17] <holstein> nah, that wont do for me
[16:17] <holstein> i need to see it done
[16:17] <holstein> i cant read a doc
[16:17] <holstein> i have too many holes in my knowlege base
[16:18] <scott-work> oh, you need to watch it happen in real-time
[16:18] <holstein> one doc leads me to another, then i get busy/frustrated
[16:18] <scott-work> i'm on a windows machine currently so i can't even download a .tar.gz file at this point and see the source :/
[16:18] <scott-work> i know i could download something on windows to do it, but this is a work machine and i would rather not
[16:18] <holstein> i remember getting the source to rakarrack for backporting
[16:18] <holstein> but, i got stuck a couple times
[16:19] <holstein> and, tbh, im not even far enough along to know what to ask
[16:19] <holstein> even reading that very well laid out wiki you made
[16:19] <holstein> its like giving the VCR manual to my granny ;)
[16:20] <holstein> anyways, i wont be able to mess with it til later
[16:20] <holstein> im busy for another 5 hours or so
[16:20] <holstein> scott-work: should i comment in that bug that somebody is going to do something?
[16:21] <holstein> i subscribed
[16:21] <scott-work> i'll look at it tonight and then see what's going on unless maybe astraljava wants a to look at it since he expressed interested previously
[17:01] <scott-work> holstein: after looking at the gcdmaster/cdrdao issue i think i have a better understanding on it
[17:01] <scott-work> if you want we could work this together tonight/tomorrow/this weekend, where we work this in parallel and compare at each step
[17:02] <scott-work> i do believe this is a very simple fix where we will be correcting something very, very simple
[17:02] <scott-work> but this can provide you with extremely good experience with a few staple tasks for packaging
[17:03] <scott-work> this is really Open Week material where they show case a simple, topical change which is easy to digest and helps introduce new people to the tools
[17:04] <scott-work> holstein: if you are interested, i'll explain more about what i believe is the issue and provide a summary explanation of what is required
[18:32] <scott-work> holstein: i updated the agenda and stole some formatting from the xubuntu-devel group
[18:32] <scott-work> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2011June5
[18:33]  * scott-work is impressed at the organization of the xubuntu team and hopes to model them more
[18:45] <charlie-tca> thank you
[18:47] <scott-work> charlie-tca: you are welcome :)
[19:05] <holstein> scott-work: yeah, im very interested
[19:06] <holstein> if i can see you in action of some of this stuff, that might help
[20:48] <scott-work> holstein: do you want a brief explanation of what needs to be changed and why at this time?  or should we wait until later?
[21:08] <ailo> Aha, alpha is released :P
[21:41] <scott-work> ailo: it was but it shouldn't have been
[21:41] <scott-work> i had talked with skaet who works with the -release team and i thought we had an understanding that it wouldn't be published :9
[21:41] <scott-work> :(
[21:42] <scott-work> we knew that gcdmaster/cdrdao were having troubles and also we didn't have the xfce packages ready
[21:42] <scott-work>  
[21:43] <scott-work> ailo: one thing we will need to do pretty soon regarding the documentation is decide on the format we want and priorities
[21:43] <scott-work> by format, i meant the outline version of what we wanted
[21:51] <holstein> scott-work: i say, dont wait on me
[21:51] <holstein> i dont want to hold anything up
[21:52] <holstein> anything you feel like sharing though, even if you just want to screen capture and email it to me
[21:52] <holstein> id just weed through it, and learn something
[21:57] <scott-work> holstein: here's the poop...
[22:10] <scott-work> sorry, someone came to my desk for answers
[22:11] <scott-work> okay, holstein , there is a source package called 'cdrdaco':  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cdrdao
[22:11] <scott-work> when you clikc the link you will see in the upper left...
[22:11] <scott-work> cdrdao: records CDs in Disk-At-Once (DAO) mode gcdmaster: GNOME GUI for cdrdao
[22:11] <scott-work> that's actually two lines
[22:12] <scott-work> these are the biniaries that are built from the source package
[22:12] <scott-work> so the cdrdao source package builds the cdrdao binary and the gcdmaster binary
[22:12] <holstein> OK
[22:12] <holstein> https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cdrdao
[22:12] <holstein> ^ source ?
[22:12] <scott-work> aye
[22:13] <scott-work> i don't think launchpad stores any binaries, not in the sense that we are discussing
[22:13] <scott-work> the trouble isn't that one package or the other will not build, they do!
[22:13] <holstein> right
[22:13] <scott-work> it's that when you try to install gcdmaster it can't
[22:13] <holstein> OK
[22:13] <scott-work> that's why it's called an "uninstallable binary"
[22:13] <scott-work> and in this case it is a dependency problem
[22:13] <holstein> becuase of some dep thats changed?
[22:14] <scott-work> aye
[22:14] <holstein> seems easy enough
[22:14] <holstein> *in theory
[22:14] <scott-work> i'm guessing that the gcdmaster depends on a previous version of cdrdao
[22:14] <scott-work> and it that version is stated in the dependencies
[22:14]  * scott-work can't check because he's not on a ubuntu machine :(
[22:15] <scott-work> holstein: you got two minutes to check this?
[22:16] <scott-work> if so i would recommend that you 'apt-get install build-essential quilt cdbs dpatch devscripts' first
[22:17] <holstein> scott-work: lemme see what i come up with
[22:17] <scott-work> it might be that only one of those packages would be enough to do what we need but i'm not sure it would be
[22:17] <scott-work> holstein: oh, that's not doing anything with the cdrdao package yet, that's just getting some tools we need in order to do something with the package
[22:18] <scott-work> launchpad works in a slightly different way then most people expect, they expect a whole package of source code all in a single directory or bundle, this isn't the case
[22:19] <scott-work> typically, the upstream code is kept original...also referred to as pristine a lot,
[22:19] <scott-work> it is typically in the form of a tarball or such
[22:19] <scott-work> .tar.gz or whatever
[22:20] <scott-work> all the other stuff, like the /debian directory or any patches we (ubuntu) apply is external to this
[22:20] <scott-work> look under the Downloads section:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cdrdao/1:1.2.3-0.1ubuntu2
[22:20] <scott-work> there is an origin.tar.bz2 - this is the upstream pristine code
[22:21] <scott-work> there is a debian.tar.gz - these are the changes (additions/deletions/any changes) that we (debian and/or ubuntu) have applied against the original code
[22:21] <scott-work> and a .dsc file - this is a description file that primarily used for building the package
[22:22] <scott-work> the .dsc file will also contain the dependencies for building the package - but these are not the dependencies we are worried about
[22:22] <scott-work> the package builds fine, it just can not satisfy an install dependency
[22:23] <scott-work> you with me so far?
[22:23] <scott-work> are you still installing the tools?
[22:23] <holstein> OK, thats finished
[22:24] <scott-work> have you read what i've been typing?  any questions on that before we move on?
[22:24] <holstein> im reading that now
[22:24] <holstein> but, go on, and im catching up...
[22:25] <scott-work> just to clarify expicitly, there are two dependencies for a package; one for building it and another for running it
[22:25] <scott-work> for example; ardour needs a shit load of libraries to build, but not jackd
[22:25] <scott-work> but ardour needs jackd to run, but not those libraries
[22:26] <scott-work> that's a rough (and slightly inaccurate) example but it makes the point
[22:26] <scott-work> the dependencies needed to build are in the *.dsc file and those for running are in the /debian/control file
[22:26] <scott-work> are you ready to start typing to get the source?
[22:26] <scott-work> holstein: ^^^
[22:26] <holstein> i think so
[22:27] <scott-work> okay, we need a terminal
[22:27] <scott-work> and you will need to make a nice directory somewhere where you don't mind numerous files or folder populating
[22:28] <scott-work> i tend to mkdir /build under my home directory and then add another directory for whatever package i'm working on
[22:28] <scott-work> so in this case i would mkdir build
[22:28] <scott-work> cd build
[22:28] <scott-work> mkdir cdrdao
[22:28] <scott-work> cd mkdir cdrdao
[22:28] <holstein> OK
[22:29] <scott-work> now, you should be at somethinglike mike@ubuntu:~/build/cdrdao$
[22:29] <scott-work> okay, so type 'apt-get source cdrdao'
[22:29] <scott-work> you don't need sudo because you are only getting the source
[22:29] <scott-work> and by the way, we are getting the source for whatever version you are currently running
[22:30]  * scott-work thinks this will be okay
[22:30] <holstein> scott-work: OH, im on lucid too
[22:30] <scott-work> the reason we got all the tools is so we can actually see what the hell is going on with the package
[22:30] <scott-work> holstein: it's probably okay, i don't think these packages have been udpated in a while, but i'll check it later at home
[22:31] <holstein> cool
[22:31] <scott-work> there is probably a nfity and succinct way to pull a specific version's source, but i don't know it off the top of my head
[22:31] <holstein> Can't check signature: public key not found
[22:31] <scott-work> that's fine
[22:31] <holstein> other than that, looks good
[22:31] <scott-work> okay, the tools took the two tarballs and make a nice looking directory with it
[22:32] <scott-work> and even applied whatever patches were included as well
[22:32] <scott-work> so, now we will look for the /debian/control file and see what it says
[22:32] <scott-work> i use nautilus for this part usually
[22:32] <scott-work> navigate under cdrdao then cdrdao_1.2.3 (or whatever)
[22:33] <scott-work> then look for /debian
[22:33] <scott-work> then look for the 'control' file under the /debian directory
[22:33] <holstein> http://paste.ubuntu.com/617082/
[22:33] <holstein> that look right?
[22:33] <scott-work> aye, that's it
[22:34] <scott-work> the first part is like a header that talks a bit about the over all package
[22:34] <scott-work> then there are different sectiosn for each of the binaries that will be built
[22:34] <scott-work> gcdmaster is on the bottom, look for Dependencies:
[22:34] <holstein> yup
[22:34] <holstein> Depends: ${misc:Depends}, ${shlibs:Depends}, cdrdao (= ${binary:Version}
[22:34] <scott-work> er. Depends
[22:34] <scott-work> okay it's using some magic to check for the version
[22:36] <scott-work> i'm not sure i can adequately put this in layman's terms, which shows my ignorance or such a base understanding of it
[22:36] <scott-work> but i think the mechanism is to ensure that gcdmaster always tries to use cdrdao of the same versioning
[22:37] <scott-work> you wouldn't want to try to use gcdmaster that is using an earlier version of cdrdao
[22:38] <scott-work> in this case, i think persia is correct in that there is nothing to fix and something needs to drop into the repos
[22:38] <holstein> i was meaning to get proactive with GCDmaster
[22:38] <holstein> its been borked for a while
[22:38] <scott-work> you did :)
[22:38] <holstein> i was trying to use it recently,k and had to use it as root
[22:38] <scott-work> you were proactive, you have determined that there is not a problem with the package
[22:38] <holstein> scott-work: cool :)
[22:39] <holstein> thats a start
[22:39] <scott-work> however, it appears that there may still be a problem elsewhere
[22:39] <scott-work> i'll see about asking persia or TheMuso about what steps we should take next
[22:39] <scott-work> it might be as simple as waiting a few more days for things to move out of the queue and into the repos
[22:40] <scott-work> holstein: running gcdmaster as root is a problem that probably should have a bug filed against it (if there isn't one already)
[22:40] <holstein> scott-work: there is one, and i think i joined it?
[22:40] <holstein> i felt like i needed to test more
[22:40] <holstein> AND< make sure i wasnt using something from falktx
[22:41] <scott-work> holstein: it is entirely possible that there is a problem with the upstream code and nothing that ubuntu/debian did
[22:41] <scott-work> this might be why there is a new version ;)
[22:42] <scott-work> oh, the changelog says it's because it relied on a deprecated gnome library :/
[22:42] <holstein> scott-work: i thought it was likely that its old code
[22:42] <holstein> being passed along
[22:42] <holstein> and passed by :/
[22:42] <holstein> like i said, thats some of the fat that could get trimmed
[22:42] <holstein> its really specifec
[22:42] <holstein> specific*
[22:42] <holstein> h...
[22:42] <holstein> i mean, most pro's probably just use brasero
[22:43] <holstein> i had some fancy fading i wanted to do, blend a few tracks or something,and i wanted GCDmaser
[22:43] <holstein> and it didnt work
[22:43] <scott-work> i did notice that 1.2.2 was in lucid but 1.2.3 was in maverick
[22:43] <scott-work> if you haven't used it in something other than lucid the problem might already be fixed
[22:45] <holstein> scott-work: i havetn
[22:45] <holstein> havent*
[22:45] <holstein> and i wanted to talk to falk about it, see if he had a fix
[22:45] <scott-work> brasero is okay, but it will not make a blue book master or whatever it's called
[22:45] <scott-work> red book master
[22:46] <holstein> yeah, i rarely want to burn a CD anyways
[22:46]  * scott-work has had a long day and i'm slightly brain dead at the momment
[22:46] <holstein> hehe
[22:46] <holstein> i think its orange?
[22:46] <holstein> some color... i know what you mean :)
[22:46] <scott-work> our parent company purchased our biggest competitor and now we are working on integrating the two companies
[22:46] <scott-work> while we are doing production work as well
[22:46] <scott-work> it's all very heady at the moment
[22:47] <holstein> good times
[22:47] <holstein> double the work, half the pay :/
[22:47] <scott-work> ah, i like being involved in all the stuff, it's good stuff
[22:47] <scott-work> just gets a little overwhelming sometimes
[22:47]  * scott-work is going home however 
[23:04] <astraljava> ScottL: I was out almost all day, so didn't have time for cdrdao issue. Will look at it tomorrow, I shouldn't have any important matters then.