[00:08] Using testdrive, there are 3 options: KVM/VirtualBox/Parelles...What are the differences, and do I have to have any other software not included as part of testdrive? [00:08] I can't really answer that [00:08] !VM [00:08] There are several solutions for running other operating systems (or their programs) inside Ubuntu, while using the native CPU as much as possible: !QEmu (with !KQemu), !VirtualBox, !VMWare, as well as !WINE and !Cedega for Windows applications [00:09] !kvm [00:09] kvm is the preferred virtualization approach in Ubuntu. For more information see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM [00:09] !parrelles [00:09] !VirtualBox [00:09] virtualbox is a x86 !virtualizer. A !free edition is available from the package 'virtualbox-ose'. A non-free edition is available at http://virtualbox.org for most Ubuntu releases (help in #vbox) - Setup details at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VirtualBox [00:09] !parallells [00:09] !paralells [00:09] well, I don't know how to get that to come up [00:11] OK, let's say I choose VirtualBox, do I need to install anything else (besides testdrive)? [00:11] I don't know if test drive installs VirtualBox for you [00:12] I don't use it [00:12] micahg: ^ ^ ^ test drive? [00:13] When you reinstall every 6 months or more often, test drive doesn't scale so well [00:14] charlie-tca, you meant parallels [00:14] ? [00:14] !parallels [00:14] don work either [00:14] hmmm [00:14] Do you know what it is? [00:15] i don't actually [00:15] drc: we don't suggest parallels. Pick something else [00:16] I prefer Vio [00:17] I prefer VirtualBox, but others seem to think KVM is the best solution out there [00:17] drc: try testdrive and see if it installs VBox for you? [00:17] The worst that will happen is an error [00:19] ChanServ: I did, it appears it didn't, and I just finished installing VirtualBox...not to see what happens [00:20] That is the easiest VM for me to use. KVM, VMWare, Qemu, all were a lot more work to set up and use [00:20] It appears that one must install the KVM/VB/Whatever seperately. [00:21] I see [00:22] Doesn't like my 64bit hardware.... [00:22] oh well [00:22] huh? [00:23] It works on mine. [00:26] !parelles [00:26] XD [00:29] !info paralles [00:29] Package paralles does not exist in natty [00:29] !info parallels [00:29] Package parallels does not exist in natty [00:29] lol [00:30] !info parelles [00:30] Package parelles does not exist in natty [00:30] !info parallel [00:30] Package parallel does not exist in natty [00:30] nope [00:31] !info parellel [00:31] Package parellel does not exist in natty [00:31] :P [00:31] !info python-parallel [00:31] python-parallel (source: pyparallel): pyparallel - module encapsulating access for the parallel port. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.2-6 (natty), package size 13 kB, installed size 108 kB [00:31] D: [00:31] you googled it [00:31] drc: tesrdrive should pull in virtualbox-ose [00:31] nope, I apt-cache policy parall* 'd it [00:32] parallels is a mac program [00:32] timely! It is driving us nuts [00:33] XD [00:34] micahg: It appears that what I installed did not pull in VB-OSE, I had to install it separately [00:35] oh, ok, I guess that changed recently :) [00:36] * drc used to really love this stuff...all the problems and trying this and that...nowadays he just wants his pipe and slippers. [00:38] * charlie-tca wants the slippers, but still breaks his machine every six months [00:38] I do dual boot though, and this natty install will stay here for six months [00:39] the only time that failed was when grub broke for several days ;-) [00:55] bah.... [00:55] humbug... [00:57] There was a reason I went with Ubuntu 3 years ago...not to have to do this anymore :) [01:01] * micahg has a dev laptop which gets uploaded once the major infrastructure changes hit, and a play laptop which is running xubuntu oneiric already :) [01:14] Ans I can't get VB to let me use the 64bit iso's :( [01:15] drc: you need a VM capable chip, install cpu-checker on the host and run kvm-ok to see if you qualify [01:16] This just keeps getting better and better :) [01:16] * micahg only has one machine that can handle 64 bit VMs [01:17] * drc starts looking for his CP/M disks...they're in the colset somewhere === tgall_foo is now known as Dr_Who [01:22] 'Bout damn time...had to go into the bios...haven't been there in years :) [01:23] and it's still not working [01:26] maybe [01:29] Interesting...testdrive won't work, but the VM (?) created in VB by testdrive will [01:29] Go Figure [01:29] (TM) [02:04] wow, we're really oversized :) [02:06] Speak for yourself, I'm on a diet. [02:07] * micahg was referring to the 784 and 796MB iSOs [02:07] Must be the LiveCD stuff....the Alt are much smaller. [02:07] yeah, the liveCD [02:08] * micahg will have to go on a slash and burn hunt if s/gdm/lightdm/ in the seed doesn't fix it [02:08] BTW, I *think* I have VB working with 32 and 64 bit images now. [02:16] micahg: yes, we are much bigger than Ubuntu, but I think it is because of the gnome and Unity stuff we are pulling in [02:18] * Unit193 wants to checkout LightDM [02:18] charlie-tca: yeah, that's why I figured on waiting until the s/gdm/lightdm in the seed [02:18] we [02:18] we're also affected by the openssl transition, but that's only eating 1MB [02:18] We are always oversize by a bunch more than Ubuntu to start [02:19] by alpha2 or 3 we should be right [02:19] oh, does xubuntu not strive to fit on the CD? [02:19] ah, ok [02:19] We can't with Ubuntu doing things to us [02:19] We are not oversize by anything Xubuntu did [02:19] heh, well, we'll still have less stacks than Ubuntu this time around I think [02:20] err, well, maybe not less, but for Xubuntu, it's s/QT/GTK2 [02:21] Why do we have to have QT too? [02:21] shouldn't ours be GTK2/GTK3 ? [02:21] charlie-tca: we don't, I was saying we'll have GTK2 instead of QT [02:21] as our second stack [02:21] oh, sorry [02:21] they have GTK3+QT [02:21] I suspect if we cut out QT, we will be in good shape [02:21] they have to keep GTK2, too, don't they? [02:22] They will be doing away with GTK2 completely for lts [02:22] charlie-tca: they're trying not to, there was a discussion about that today, we don't have QT ATM [02:22] crap [02:22] I am never gonna learn this kUbuntu thing [02:23] we do have a lot of GNOME3 stuff we don't need though [02:23] oh, yeah, I guess that would be true [02:23] well, GTK2 can drop to universe for LTS, but it has to stay in the archive or there will be no xubuntu :) [02:23] Won't we be going to GTK3 for 4.10? [02:24] no [02:24] huh? [02:24] no? We stay at gtk2 for three years? [02:24] the focus is polish, http://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.10/roadmap [02:25] for the 13.04 release, we'll probably have a GTK3 version of xubuntu [02:25] but even then, it might not be complete until the following release [02:25] Oh, goody. That makes gtk2 stay around until 2015 [02:26] well, at least that long :) [02:26] in 4 years I think it'll be gone at least from our dev archive :) [02:26] That will make everybody love us more :-) [02:26] old reliable technology! [02:27] * drc might not live long enough to see gtk2 gone from xubuntu :( [02:27] * charlie-tca thinks drc is still young! [02:28] but at least he makes me feel young sometimes [02:29] * drc knows he acts like a two year old sometimes, but doesn't care [02:29] * charlie-tca got 11 year old grandkids [02:30] or maybe 12 now [02:30] * drc has one in college [02:30] * charlie-tca thinks drc is old! [02:30] * micahg is apparently the youngin here... [02:30] Turns 60 next month :( [02:30] wooo [02:30] makes me a young guy afterall... just 58 in October [02:31] micahg is really young [02:31] * micahg thinks we should have a party for charlie-tca in Orlando [02:31] no [02:31] * charlie-tca might not go [02:31] charlie-tca: not really young, I think mr_pouit has me beat [02:31] charlie-tca: ok, no party, please come :) [02:32] okay, I can try [02:32] yes, mr_pouit does look young [02:32] and then there is cody-somerville too, for looking really young [02:32] oh yeah, I met him finally in Budapest [02:32] You did? [02:33] yeah [02:33] I missed him again. We got to say hi in Orlando, barely [02:33] he does tend to move pretty quickly :) [02:33] we talked outside for a bit [02:33] I did get to meet janni, though [02:33] janimo? [02:33] yup [02:33] yeah, I met him at the last rally [02:34] for the new guys, he founded Xubuntu [02:35] * charlie-tca is still plugging away at tests [02:36] charlie-tca: What tests? Can I help? [02:36] You get VBox working? [02:36] yup :) [02:36] I got to get two done on Xubuntu 64 alternate yet [02:36] lvm encrypted and auto-resize [02:37] and then I agreed to help Kubuntu out, and got 8 to run there yet [02:38] I'm (re)grabbing the X64ALT's now, I'll do the 64ALT-resize when its done [02:38] Okay, it's a deal [02:38] After that I'll help with the Kubuntu [02:38] I will run the encrypted install [02:39] * drc is not sure what a LVM is [02:39] it's a complicated way to say use all the drives as one drive [02:39] 20 min until the DL is done, then I'll start. [02:40] and you can add/delete space from it easier than normal partitions [02:40] oh, I just thought is was an improved KVM :) [02:40] I don't use it, myself [02:40] it also allows you to resize non-contiguous partitions and has lots of other features like snapshots [02:40] nice [02:40] * pleia2 uses it everywhere [02:40] yeah, it has all the confusing things to go with it [02:41] heh [02:41] But pleia2 is a geekette [02:41] well, being a sysadmin is my job :) [02:41] Maybe if I was younger [02:41] I hate playing with all the options now [02:44] * drc womders how sysadmins (noun) nowadays have time to actually sysadmin (verb) with all the new stuff they have to learn on a continual basis. Back in the day it was easy, change came much slower and in smaller doses. [02:45] I'm sure it depends on the place, but for us we rotate research and sysadmin (verb) duty [02:46] right now I'm in research mode for a failover cluster with heartbeat, kvm and drbd [02:46] it's not as fast as it could be though, one reason we don't use ubuntu is the pace on server stuff is too fast (virtualization-wise they went from kvm, to eucalyptus to openstack in less than 3 years, impossible in real production) [02:47] * pleia2 hopes they will settle down eventually :) [02:48] workin' on a chain gang, goin' down down down... [02:49] err s/heartbeat/pacemaker - heartbeat is what we used to use, see? my poor brain [02:55] micahg: we are causing problems with kde too now? https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/728388 [02:55] Ubuntu bug 728388 in xfce4-notifyd (Ubuntu) "libknotifyconfig4 or something around kde4 in conflict with xfce4-notifyd" [Undecided,New] [02:55] lol [02:58] Starting ALT64-resize. [02:59] It's really xfce4-notifyd conflicts with notification-daemon ... [02:59] I won't say I got three running [03:00] Kubuntu 386 resize, Kubuntu 64 oem, Xubuntu 64 encrypted [03:00] It's confusing [03:01] I might have encrypted the wrong one now [03:08] Thanks for getting the resize, drc [03:08] I got three machines I use, plus the VirtualBox machines [03:25] * charlie-tca is very thankful to Xfce for getting sticky keys to work. [03:38] lol launchpad is crazy [03:43] its just my impression or does xubuntu testing didn't bring any red color bugs? [03:43] :D [03:44] We left the red off, it looks prettier that way [03:44] hehehe XD [03:45] we are the cool people, like look at them! they all red and we here whit cool green [03:48] Don't laugh too hard, sometimes it is us that is all red, and they pass everything [03:58] Xubuntu tests are done, as soon as drc signs off [03:58] It may be a while:( [03:58] I'm confused [03:58] * charlie-tca thinks that is wrongly worded. Should be as soon as drc completes his [03:59] why? [03:59] http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/AlternateResize going from step 8 to 9 [04:00] I swear that's not what shows up on my screen [04:00] selected timezone [04:00] really step 9 [04:00] then you got a list of things you can do with the drive [04:00] guided resizing existing partition on sd? [04:01] If you don't have an existing partition, it will be wrong [04:01] OK, lets get this done...It might be best if you do the resize test, while I firgure out what I'm doing wrong [04:01] If that is a new VBox drive, you do a guided whole drive first, then you do a second install using the guided resize [04:02] Okay, I will give you the right line when I get there [04:02] Sorry about this [04:03] no problem [04:03] it took me a while to learn all this stuff [04:03] Any chance you can do a print screen when you get to the appropriate screen? [04:03] yup [04:04] although the current drive is encrypted, so we will see what it does [04:04] BTW, I was doing it on a hardware partition (that's why I left), I couldn't figure out how in VB. [04:04] So, you want to see it in hardware? [04:05] It shouldn't matter should it? [04:05] The screen showing step 9 should be the same [04:05] nope, other than my two drive setup is really confusing to figure out [04:06] I just want to see what it should look like, then I'll drop out and try it again [04:06] Okay [04:06] give me a minute and I will screenshot it [04:07] ok [04:07] * drc hates it when his enthusiasm exceeds his knowledge [04:07] I will have to run two installs to get there [04:08] I only got a choice of encrypted, whole disk, or manual [04:08] Let me boot the hardware machine and see if I can get something there [04:08] nm [04:08] I'll be here [04:08] can't screenshot it [04:10] Looking at another machine [04:11] Don't go to any great bother, I'm going to drop out and try something. back in a bit [04:20] drc: http://imagebin.org/156413 [04:20] OK, testing resizing is right out until I can figure out where I am going wrong. [04:20] If there is not enough room or the disk is empty, you will not have the top line [04:21] That's it [04:21] I see "reuse" not resize [04:21] I need to figure out how to do this in VB [04:21] I did not get the first line because my drive was encrypted, so I am doing a Guided-use entire disk [04:21] first, then will do the resize [04:21] but that's a job for tomorrow, I'm tired. [04:22] reuse is to write over the existing partition. [04:22] BTW, have you got any sleep charlie-tca ? [04:22] Is that the alternate cd? [04:22] yes [04:22] It sounds like the desktop image [04:22] I slept last night, I woke up about 17 hours ago [04:23] I will get this test done, then call it a night [04:23] ok...anything I can help with kubuntu? [04:23] couple of manual installs if you are up to it. Otherwise, we let it go [04:24] Just as long as it's as straing forward as the Xubuntu manual :) [04:24] it's kubuntu, nothing is straight about it [04:24] http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/result/5808/65 [04:25] http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/result/5810/64 [04:25] took me 5 minutes to find the terminal [04:27] ok, got 'em...go to bed. [04:27] heh, good luck with that one [04:28] menu is the bottom left button, shutdown is a red square in that button, then click shutdown or restart [04:29] I've played with kubuntu a bit in the past month. [04:29] You are ahead of me then [04:29] I hadn't touched it in about two years [04:29] too much bling [04:30] Only thing I remembered is the editor was named kate [04:30] and I had to use kate, too [04:31] I had to put a patch in on the live cd to try and install it [04:31] I used kde for about 4 years...as part of the KDE on FeeeBSD porting team. [04:31] But that was way back in the day [04:31] Couldn't stand gnome in those days [04:31] should have had you running those kubuntu tests [04:32] You would have had an easier time than me [04:32] Tell you what, next time we have to do that, I'll do the kde and you can have all the re-sizing tests :) [04:33] heh, deal! [04:33] I do the tests in sequence... encrypted, whole disk, resize, manual [04:33] 20 min for both DL's and I'll jump on, so any time you want to leave, don't wait on me. [04:34] okay, but I got to get this test done [04:34] I've done this before, this time is my own fault for trying to help out the other teams [04:35] darn it, they name their files the same as we do :( [04:35] I ran about 8 Ubuntu tests, 6 Kubuntu tests, today [04:35] oh, yeah [04:35] We all use the same name for development releases [04:35] confazzled me for a moment [04:36] We change names for the final release, to keep the users from overwriting each distribution [04:38] Tomorrow I use Dasher all day, to write with. [04:38] Oh, by the way, barring a respin for any reason, there will not be new images until Friday [04:38] what happened to Dancer and Prancer? As in, what's Dasher? [04:39] Dancer and Prancer got good legs. [04:39] Dasher is assistive writing technology. It is an application that lets you write using the mouse only [04:39] Good. Gives me a chance to play with VB [04:40] Got a really high learning curve, but can do almost anything the hardware keyboard can, and you can write at about 30 words per minute with it [04:40] words per minute or characters per minute? [04:41] I think I type at 40 characters per minute, so dasher is about 30 characters per minute [04:42] Considering it is mouse only, that is a pretty fast rate [04:42] I got a couple of bugs in dasher I have to test [04:42] I work with the upstream developers to get the bugs in it fixed for Ubuntu [04:43] You are, indeed, a glutton for punishment. [04:46] hm....the youngest daughter must be WoWing now, the DL rate just dropped :) [04:47] jajaja [04:47] XD [04:48] Maybe her fairy-bunny-healer will take a whack from the lag [04:48] talking about games [04:48] i feel like playing quake [04:50] oh... i had it on the drive that got formated :( [04:54] charlie-tca: yes, anything that provides a notification-daemon needs to conflict with notification-daemon [05:37] OK, KDE done...time for a beer, bath and bed :) [05:38] Tomorrow all. [06:22] charlie-tca: Still Around? [13:33] Anything new/better to add to release notes for Oneiric Alpha1? [14:27] We should have a news item for alpha1 release today [14:32] is alpha 1 online already? [14:32] no [14:32] alpha1 will be release sometime today, UTC time [14:33] ok :) [15:55] lol [15:55] I've finally upgraded to natty (shame on me). [15:56] Bluebird is the new theme, right? Whats the default icon set? [15:56] no [15:56] greybird with elementary xubuntu dark icons [15:58] tying to crash dasher today [15:59] ah. I think I'll use bluebird. I like the blue. helps lower my blood pressure, lol [15:59] it not as easy as typing yet [16:00] Yeah, It would have that effect. I like the greys, myself [16:00] Then again, I can read better on lighter backgrounds [16:00] dasher is the onscreen writing thing? [16:00] ain't that for touchscreen devices? [16:01] ah, selecting the greybird xfwm4 theme with greybird gtk theme looks nicer [16:01] (then just the gtk theme) [16:01] well, yeah... :-) [16:02] Bluebird gtk theme w/ greybird xfwm4 theme is kinda hot [16:03] dasher is anyone that can not use the hardware keyboard [16:06] but i seem to be only at about 2words per minute [16:08] e Ican type about 40 [16:10] not having a bottom panel is so weird [16:10] It is there, but hidden [16:11] I know, [16:11] oh, yeah, and it is a launcher panel now [16:11] I put my own in, two of them side by side, one is launchers and one is workspaces [16:11] the weird part is how I have to look at the lower part of my screen now [16:11] yeah, I gave up on that part [16:12] wow, gmusicbrowser is kinda confusing [16:15] I know i might be the only one here, but who else really dislikes having the exit icon on the upper panel? really close to the [x] close button? one of the very first things i do whit every install is moving the panel down XD [16:16] I like it on the upper panel in the left corner [16:16] no, right corner [16:24] GridCube, Not sure what you mean. In natty, there is no exit icon... just the session menu in the upper right [16:26] I couldn't keep that, either. I switched it out for the logout menu [16:26] * charlie-tca thinks it is really called Action Menu instead [16:27] yeah that too [16:29] hmm... my multimedia keys no longer work (except for volume). :( [16:29] That's the kernel's fault [16:30] unless they are missing from shortcuts again? [16:31] hmm... they work in Exaile [16:33] question [16:33] sounds like the kernel to me [16:33] when gtk3 comes out, how will it be handled? both gtk engines will run simultanously or only one at each time? [16:34] i mean, will xfce use gtk3 or just some apps? [16:34] there are a few bug reports on that [16:35] Xubuntu will be using some Gtk3 apps, but Xfce will not [16:35] oh ok [16:35] So, we will have both gtk2 and gtk3 in Xubuntu [16:35] for a very long time, too, apparently [16:36] ok but will that compromise the system? in terms of speed or stability? [16:36] unknown yet [16:36] kk [16:43] hm, shortcut keys don't all work [16:44] apparently, Alt+F11 is not working at all [16:44] If you full screen an app, it is stuck there [16:47] GridCube: not any more that any other library dependency, the only rule is one app cannot use both GTK2 and GTK3 at the same time [16:47] i see [16:47] yesterday i tried a gtk3 app on oneiric, and it failed :( [16:48] heh, which one? [16:49] http://paste.ubuntu.com/616026 [16:49] because we aren't quite there yet, maybe? [16:50] not everything has been ported over to gtk3 yet [16:50] ooh, that's a bug :), but yeah, kinda expected at alpha1 [16:51] :P [16:51] thats why i didn't say anything about it [16:51] XD [17:19] GridCube: gedit seems to work for me even with the errors [17:22] yes [17:22] it works [17:22] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/94002 [17:22] Ubuntu bug 94002 in Ubuntu "Fiesty logs-out when shutdown seleceted" [Undecided,Invalid] [17:22] this happens too [17:22] well not for me [17:22] for a friend on 11.04 [17:22] it is a new bug [17:22] is there a way to fix it [17:23] This one, I think - bug 711571 [17:23] Launchpad bug 711571 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu Natty) "xfdesktop4 crashes on exit with xorg-server 1.10" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/711571 [17:23] yes i found that [17:24] but i don't understand it [17:24] the workaround is to log out first, then shutdown from gdm using that little red symbol at the bottom [17:24] that is the bug that causes the logout instead of shutdown. It is not a simple thing to fix [18:03] maybe lightdm will fix it? [18:04] no, lightdm will not affect issues with Xorg [18:04] it is not caused by gdm, which lightDM will replace [18:07] * GridCube know he might have already asked this [18:07] will lightDM allow for user avatars? [18:26] I don't know yet [18:32] lightdm is just a backend, you can have a custom front-end greeter on top of it [19:33] OK, need a little VB help...created VM on the Oneiric32 ISO, installed and upgraded in VB. What I can't figure out (although I *know* it will be a facepalm momnent) is how to save it so the next time I boot that VM it does not revert to the ISO. [19:34] A URL will be fine. [19:35] um, you shutdown, then remove the iso from the storage preferences [19:35] drc: Visual Basic? [19:35] baa [19:36] TheSheep - one, drc - zero lol [19:38] You don't delete the iso, just remove it from the controller [19:38] I usually switch the controller to the hardware device [19:39]