[00:08] <drc> Using testdrive, there are 3 options: KVM/VirtualBox/Parelles...What are the differences, and do I have to have any other software not included as part of testdrive?
[00:08] <charlie-tca> I can't really answer that
[00:08] <charlie-tca> !VM
[00:09] <charlie-tca> !kvm
[00:09] <charlie-tca> !parrelles
[00:09] <charlie-tca> !VirtualBox
[00:09] <charlie-tca> !parallells
[00:09] <charlie-tca> !paralells
[00:09] <charlie-tca> well, I don't know how to get that to come up
[00:11] <drc> OK, let's say I choose VirtualBox, do I need to install anything else (besides testdrive)?
[00:11] <charlie-tca> I don't know if test drive installs VirtualBox for you
[00:12] <charlie-tca> I don't use it
[00:12] <charlie-tca> micahg: ^ ^ ^ test drive?
[00:13] <charlie-tca> When you reinstall every 6 months or more often, test drive doesn't scale so well
[00:14] <DarkEra> charlie-tca, you meant parallels
[00:14] <DarkEra> ?
[00:14] <charlie-tca> !parallels
[00:14] <charlie-tca> don work either
[00:14] <DarkEra> hmmm
[00:14] <charlie-tca> Do you know what it is?
[00:15] <DarkEra> i don't actually
[00:15] <charlie-tca> drc: we don't suggest parallels. Pick something else
[00:16] <charlie-tca> I prefer Vio
[00:17] <charlie-tca> I prefer VirtualBox, but others seem to think KVM is the best solution out there
[00:17] <charlie-tca> drc: try testdrive and see if it installs VBox for you?
[00:17] <charlie-tca> The worst that will happen is an error
[00:19] <drc> ChanServ: I did, it appears it didn't, and I just finished installing VirtualBox...not to see what happens
[00:20] <charlie-tca> That is the easiest VM for me to use. KVM, VMWare, Qemu, all were a lot more work to set up and use
[00:20] <drc> It appears that one must install the KVM/VB/Whatever seperately.
[00:21] <charlie-tca> I see
[00:22] <drc> Doesn't like my 64bit hardware....
[00:22] <drc> oh well
[00:22] <charlie-tca> huh?
[00:23] <charlie-tca> It works on mine. 
[00:26] <GridCube> !parelles
[00:26] <GridCube> XD
[00:29] <charlie-tca> !info paralles
[00:29] <charlie-tca> !info parallels
[00:29] <charlie-tca> lol
[00:30] <GridCube> !info parelles
[00:30] <charlie-tca> !info parallel
[00:30] <GridCube> nope
[00:31] <GridCube> !info parellel
[00:31] <GridCube> :P
[00:31] <charlie-tca> !info python-parallel
[00:31] <GridCube> D:
[00:31] <GridCube> you googled it
[00:31] <micahg> drc: tesrdrive should pull in virtualbox-ose
[00:31] <charlie-tca> nope, I apt-cache policy parall*   'd it
[00:32] <micahg> parallels is a mac program
[00:32] <charlie-tca> timely! It is driving us nuts
[00:33] <GridCube> XD
[00:34] <drc> micahg: It appears that what I installed did not pull in VB-OSE, I had to install it separately
[00:35] <micahg> oh, ok, I guess that changed recently :)
[00:36]  * drc used to really love this stuff...all the problems and trying this and that...nowadays he just wants his pipe and slippers.
[00:38]  * charlie-tca wants the slippers, but still breaks his machine every six months
[00:38] <charlie-tca> I do dual boot though, and this natty install will stay here for six months
[00:39] <charlie-tca> the only time that failed was when grub broke for several days ;-)
[00:55] <drc> bah....
[00:55] <charlie-tca> humbug...
[00:57] <drc> There was a reason I went with Ubuntu 3 years ago...not to have to do this anymore :)
[01:01]  * micahg has a dev laptop which gets uploaded once the major infrastructure changes hit, and a play laptop which is running xubuntu oneiric already :)
[01:14] <drc> Ans I can't get VB to let me use the 64bit iso's :(
[01:15] <micahg> drc: you need a VM capable chip, install cpu-checker on the host and run kvm-ok to see if you qualify 
[01:16] <drc> This just keeps getting better and better :)
[01:16]  * micahg only has one machine that can handle 64 bit VMs
[01:17]  * drc starts looking for his CP/M disks...they're in the colset somewhere
[01:22] <drc> 'Bout damn time...had to go into the bios...haven't been there in years :)
[01:23] <drc> and it's still not working
[01:26] <drc> maybe
[01:29] <drc> Interesting...testdrive won't work, but the VM (?) created in VB by testdrive will
[01:29] <drc> Go Figure
[01:29] <drc> (TM)
[02:04] <micahg> wow, we're really oversized :)
[02:06] <drc> Speak for yourself, I'm on a diet.
[02:07]  * micahg was referring to the 784 and 796MB iSOs
[02:07] <drc> Must be the LiveCD stuff....the Alt are much smaller.
[02:07] <micahg> yeah, the liveCD
[02:08]  * micahg will have to go on a slash and burn hunt if s/gdm/lightdm/ in the seed doesn't fix it
[02:08] <drc> BTW, I *think* I have VB working with 32 and 64 bit images now.
[02:16] <charlie-tca> micahg: yes, we are much bigger than Ubuntu, but I think it is because of the gnome and Unity stuff we are pulling in 
[02:18]  * Unit193 wants to checkout LightDM
[02:18] <micahg> charlie-tca: yeah, that's why I figured on waiting until the s/gdm/lightdm in the seed
[02:18] <micahg> we
[02:18] <micahg> we're also affected by the openssl transition, but that's only eating 1MB
[02:18] <charlie-tca> We are always oversize by a bunch more than Ubuntu to start
[02:19] <charlie-tca> by alpha2 or 3 we should be right
[02:19] <micahg> oh, does xubuntu not strive to fit on the CD?
[02:19] <micahg> ah, ok
[02:19] <charlie-tca> We can't with Ubuntu doing things to us
[02:19] <charlie-tca> We are not oversize by anything Xubuntu did
[02:19] <micahg> heh, well, we'll still have less stacks than Ubuntu this time around I think
[02:20] <micahg> err, well, maybe not less, but for Xubuntu, it's s/QT/GTK2
[02:21] <charlie-tca> Why do we have to have QT too?
[02:21] <charlie-tca> shouldn't ours be GTK2/GTK3 ?
[02:21] <micahg> charlie-tca: we don't, I was saying we'll have GTK2 instead of QT
[02:21] <micahg> as our second stack
[02:21] <charlie-tca> oh, sorry
[02:21] <micahg> they have GTK3+QT
[02:21] <charlie-tca> I suspect if we cut out QT, we will be in good shape
[02:21] <charlie-tca> they have to keep GTK2, too, don't they?
[02:22] <charlie-tca> They will be doing away with GTK2 completely for lts
[02:22] <micahg> charlie-tca: they're trying not to, there was a discussion about that today, we don't have QT ATM
[02:22] <charlie-tca> crap
[02:22] <charlie-tca> I am never gonna learn this kUbuntu thing
[02:23] <micahg> we do have a lot of GNOME3 stuff we don't need though
[02:23] <charlie-tca> oh, yeah, I guess that would be true
[02:23] <micahg> well, GTK2 can drop to universe for LTS, but it has to stay in the archive or there will be no xubuntu :)
[02:23] <charlie-tca> Won't we be going to GTK3 for 4.10?
[02:24] <micahg> no
[02:24] <charlie-tca> huh?
[02:24] <charlie-tca> no? We stay at gtk2 for three years?
[02:24] <micahg> the focus is polish, http://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.10/roadmap
[02:25] <micahg> for the 13.04 release, we'll probably have a GTK3 version of xubuntu
[02:25] <micahg> but even then, it might not be complete until the following release
[02:25] <charlie-tca> Oh, goody. That makes gtk2 stay around until 2015
[02:26] <micahg> well, at least that long :)
[02:26] <micahg> in 4 years I think it'll be gone at least from our dev archive :)
[02:26] <charlie-tca> That will make everybody love us more :-)
[02:26] <micahg> old reliable technology!
[02:27]  * drc might not live long enough to see gtk2 gone from xubuntu :(
[02:27]  * charlie-tca thinks drc is still young!
[02:28] <charlie-tca> but at least he makes me feel young sometimes 
[02:29]  * drc knows he acts like a two year old sometimes, but doesn't care
[02:29]  * charlie-tca got 11 year old grandkids
[02:30] <charlie-tca> or maybe 12 now
[02:30]  * drc has one in college
[02:30]  * charlie-tca thinks drc is old!
[02:30]  * micahg is apparently the youngin here...
[02:30] <drc> Turns 60 next month :(
[02:30] <charlie-tca> wooo
[02:30] <charlie-tca> makes me a young guy afterall... just 58 in October
[02:31] <charlie-tca> micahg is really young
[02:31]  * micahg thinks we should have a party for charlie-tca in Orlando
[02:31] <charlie-tca> no
[02:31]  * charlie-tca might not go
[02:31] <micahg> charlie-tca: not really young, I think mr_pouit has me beat
[02:31] <micahg> charlie-tca: ok, no party, please come :)
[02:32] <charlie-tca> okay, I can try
[02:32] <charlie-tca> yes, mr_pouit does look young
[02:32] <charlie-tca> and then there is cody-somerville too, for looking really young
[02:32] <micahg> oh yeah, I met him finally in Budapest
[02:32] <charlie-tca> You did?
[02:33] <micahg> yeah
[02:33] <charlie-tca> I missed him again. We got to say hi in Orlando, barely
[02:33] <pleia2> he does tend to move pretty quickly :)
[02:33] <micahg> we talked outside for a bit
[02:33] <charlie-tca> I did get to meet janni, though
[02:33] <micahg> janimo?
[02:33] <charlie-tca> yup
[02:33] <micahg> yeah, I met him at the last rally
[02:34] <charlie-tca> for the new guys, he founded Xubuntu
[02:35]  * charlie-tca is still plugging away at tests
[02:36] <drc> charlie-tca: What tests? Can I help?
[02:36] <charlie-tca> You get VBox working?
[02:36] <drc> yup :)
[02:36] <charlie-tca> I got to get two done on Xubuntu 64 alternate yet
[02:36] <charlie-tca> lvm encrypted and auto-resize
[02:37] <charlie-tca> and then I agreed to help Kubuntu out, and got 8 to run there yet
[02:38] <drc> I'm (re)grabbing the X64ALT's now, I'll do the 64ALT-resize when its done
[02:38] <charlie-tca> Okay, it's a deal
[02:38] <drc> After that I'll help with the Kubuntu
[02:38] <charlie-tca> I will run the encrypted install
[02:39]  * drc is not sure what a LVM is
[02:39] <charlie-tca> it's a complicated way to say use all the drives as one drive
[02:39] <drc> 20 min until the DL is done, then I'll start.
[02:40] <charlie-tca> and you can add/delete space from it easier than normal partitions
[02:40] <drc> oh, I just thought is was an improved KVM :)
[02:40] <charlie-tca> I don't use it, myself
[02:40] <pleia2> it also allows you to resize non-contiguous partitions and has lots of other features like snapshots
[02:40] <drc> nice
[02:40]  * pleia2 uses it everywhere
[02:40] <charlie-tca> yeah, it has all the confusing things to go with it
[02:41] <charlie-tca> heh
[02:41] <drc> But pleia2 is a geekette
[02:41] <pleia2> well, being a sysadmin is my job :)
[02:41] <charlie-tca> Maybe if I was younger
[02:41] <charlie-tca> I hate playing with all the options now
[02:44]  * drc womders how sysadmins (noun) nowadays have time to actually sysadmin (verb) with all the new stuff they have to learn on a continual basis.  Back in the day it was easy, change came much slower and in smaller doses.
[02:45] <pleia2> I'm sure it depends on the place, but for us we rotate research and sysadmin (verb) duty
[02:46] <pleia2> right now I'm in research mode for a failover cluster with heartbeat, kvm and drbd
[02:46] <pleia2> it's not as fast as it could be though, one reason we don't use ubuntu is the pace on server stuff is too fast (virtualization-wise they went from kvm, to eucalyptus to openstack in less than 3 years, impossible in real production)
[02:47]  * pleia2 hopes they will settle down eventually :)
workin' on a chain gang, goin' down down down...</sing>
[02:49] <pleia2> err s/heartbeat/pacemaker - heartbeat is what we used to use, see? my poor brain
[02:55] <charlie-tca> micahg: we are causing problems with kde too now? https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/728388
[02:55] <charlie-tca> lol
[02:58] <drc> Starting ALT64-resize.
[02:59] <charlie-tca> It's really xfce4-notifyd conflicts with notification-daemon ... 
[02:59] <charlie-tca> I won't say I got three running
[03:00] <charlie-tca> Kubuntu 386 resize, Kubuntu 64 oem, Xubuntu 64 encrypted
[03:00] <charlie-tca> It's confusing
[03:01] <charlie-tca> I might have encrypted the wrong one now
[03:08] <charlie-tca> Thanks for getting the resize, drc
[03:08] <charlie-tca> I got three machines I use, plus the VirtualBox machines
[03:25]  * charlie-tca is very thankful to Xfce for getting sticky keys to work. 
[03:38] <GridCube> lol launchpad is crazy
[03:43] <GridCube> its just my impression or does xubuntu testing didn't bring any red color bugs?
[03:43] <GridCube> :D
[03:44] <charlie-tca> We left the red off, it looks prettier that way
[03:44] <GridCube> hehehe XD
[03:45] <GridCube> we are the cool people, like look at them! they all red and we here whit cool green
[03:48] <charlie-tca> Don't laugh too hard, sometimes it is us that is all red, and they pass everything
[03:58] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu tests are done, as soon as drc signs off
[03:58] <drc> It may be a while:(
[03:58] <drc> I'm confused
[03:58]  * charlie-tca thinks that is wrongly worded. Should be as soon as drc completes his
[03:59] <charlie-tca> why?
[03:59] <drc> http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/AlternateResize going from step 8 to 9
[04:00] <drc> I swear that's not what shows up on my screen
[04:00] <charlie-tca> selected timezone
[04:00] <drc> really step 9
[04:00] <charlie-tca> then you got a list of things you can do with the drive
[04:00] <charlie-tca> guided resizing existing partition on sd?
[04:01] <charlie-tca> If you don't have an existing partition, it will be wrong
[04:01] <drc> OK, lets get this done...It might be best if you do the resize test, while I firgure out what I'm doing wrong
[04:01] <charlie-tca> If that is a new VBox drive, you do a guided whole drive first, then you do a second install using the guided resize
[04:02] <charlie-tca> Okay, I will give you the right line when I get there
[04:02] <drc> Sorry about this
[04:03] <charlie-tca> no problem
[04:03] <charlie-tca> it took me a while to learn all this stuff
[04:03] <drc> Any chance you can do a print screen when you get to the appropriate screen?
[04:03] <charlie-tca> yup
[04:04] <charlie-tca> although the current drive is encrypted, so we will see what it does
[04:04] <drc> BTW, I was doing it on a hardware partition (that's why I left), I couldn't figure out how in VB.
[04:04] <charlie-tca> So, you want to see it in hardware?
[04:05] <drc> It shouldn't matter should it? 
[04:05] <drc> The screen showing step 9 should be the same
[04:05] <charlie-tca> nope, other than my two drive setup is really confusing to figure out
[04:06] <drc> I just want to see what it should look like, then I'll drop out and try it again
[04:06] <charlie-tca> Okay
[04:06] <charlie-tca> give me a minute and I will screenshot it
[04:07] <drc> ok
[04:07]  * drc hates it when his enthusiasm exceeds his knowledge
[04:07] <charlie-tca> I will have to run two installs to get there
[04:08] <charlie-tca> I only got a choice of encrypted, whole disk, or manual
[04:08] <charlie-tca> Let me boot the hardware machine and see if I can get something there
[04:08] <charlie-tca> nm
[04:08] <drc> I'll be here
[04:08] <charlie-tca> can't screenshot it
[04:10] <charlie-tca> Looking at another machine
[04:11] <drc> Don't go to any great bother, I'm going to drop out and try something.  back in a bit
[04:20] <charlie-tca> drc: http://imagebin.org/156413
[04:20] <drc> OK, testing resizing is right out until I can figure out where I am going wrong.
[04:20] <charlie-tca> If there is not enough room or the disk is empty, you will not have the top line
[04:21] <drc> That's it
[04:21] <drc> I see "reuse" not resize
[04:21] <drc> I need to figure out how to do this in VB
[04:21] <charlie-tca> I did not get the first line because my drive was encrypted, so I am doing a Guided-use entire disk 
[04:21] <charlie-tca> first, then will do the resize
[04:21] <drc> but that's a job for tomorrow, I'm tired.
[04:22] <charlie-tca> reuse is to write over the existing partition. 
[04:22] <drc> BTW, have you got any sleep charlie-tca ?
[04:22] <charlie-tca> Is that the alternate cd?
[04:22] <drc> yes
[04:22] <charlie-tca> It sounds like the desktop image
[04:22] <charlie-tca> I slept last night, I woke up about 17 hours ago
[04:23] <charlie-tca> I will get this test done, then call it a night
[04:23] <drc> ok...anything I can help with kubuntu?
[04:23] <charlie-tca> couple of manual installs if you are up to it. Otherwise, we let it go
[04:24] <drc> Just as long as it's as straing forward as the Xubuntu manual :)
[04:24] <charlie-tca> it's kubuntu, nothing is straight about it
[04:24] <charlie-tca> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/result/5808/65
[04:25] <charlie-tca> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/result/5810/64
[04:25] <charlie-tca> took me 5 minutes to find the terminal
[04:27] <drc> ok, got 'em...go to bed.
[04:27] <charlie-tca> heh, good luck with that one
[04:28] <charlie-tca> menu is the bottom left button, shutdown is a red square in that button, then click shutdown or restart
[04:29] <drc> I've played with kubuntu a bit in the past month.
[04:29] <charlie-tca> You are ahead of me then
[04:29] <charlie-tca> I hadn't touched it in about two years
[04:29] <drc> too much bling
[04:30] <charlie-tca> Only thing I remembered is the editor was named kate
[04:30] <charlie-tca> and I had to use kate, too
[04:31] <charlie-tca> I had to put a patch in on the live cd to try and install it
[04:31] <drc> I used kde for about 4 years...as part of the KDE on FeeeBSD porting team.
[04:31] <drc> But that was way back in the day
[04:31] <drc> Couldn't stand gnome in those days
[04:31] <charlie-tca> should have had you running those kubuntu tests
[04:32] <charlie-tca> You would have had an easier time than me
[04:32] <drc> Tell you what, next time we have to do that, I'll do the kde and you can have all the re-sizing tests :)
[04:33] <charlie-tca> heh, deal!
[04:33] <charlie-tca> I do the tests in sequence... encrypted, whole disk, resize, manual
[04:33] <drc> 20 min for both DL's and I'll jump on, so any time you want to leave, don't wait on me.
[04:34] <charlie-tca> okay, but I got to get this test done
[04:34] <charlie-tca> I've done this before, this time is my own fault for trying to help out the other teams
[04:35] <drc> darn it, they name their files the same as we do :(
[04:35] <charlie-tca> I ran about 8 Ubuntu tests, 6 Kubuntu tests, today
[04:35] <charlie-tca> oh, yeah
[04:35] <charlie-tca> We all use the same name for development releases
[04:35] <drc> confazzled me for a moment
[04:36] <charlie-tca> We change names for the final release, to keep the users from overwriting each distribution
[04:38] <charlie-tca> Tomorrow I use Dasher all day, to write with.
[04:38] <charlie-tca> Oh, by the way, barring a respin for any reason, there will not be new images until Friday
[04:38] <drc> what happened to Dancer and Prancer?  As in, what's Dasher?
[04:39] <charlie-tca> Dancer and Prancer got good legs. 
[04:39] <charlie-tca> Dasher is assistive writing technology. It is an application that lets you write using the mouse only
[04:39] <drc> Good. Gives me a chance to play with VB
[04:40] <charlie-tca> Got a really high learning curve, but can do almost anything the hardware keyboard can, and you can write at about 30 words per minute with it
[04:40] <charlie-tca> words per minute or characters per minute?
[04:41] <charlie-tca> I think I type at 40 characters per minute, so dasher is about 30 characters per minute
[04:42] <charlie-tca> Considering it is mouse only, that is a pretty fast rate
[04:42] <charlie-tca> I got a couple of bugs in dasher I have to test
[04:42] <charlie-tca> I work with the upstream developers to get the bugs in it fixed for Ubuntu
[04:43] <drc> You are, indeed, a glutton for punishment.
[04:46] <drc> hm....the youngest daughter must be WoWing now, the DL rate just dropped :)
[04:47] <GridCube> jajaja
[04:47] <GridCube> XD
[04:48] <drc> Maybe her fairy-bunny-healer will take a whack from the lag
[04:48] <GridCube> talking about games
[04:48] <GridCube> i feel like playing quake
[04:50] <GridCube> oh... i had it on the drive that got formated :(
[04:54] <micahg> charlie-tca: yes, anything that provides a notification-daemon needs to conflict with notification-daemon
[05:37] <drc> OK, KDE done...time for a beer, bath and bed :)
[05:38] <drc> Tomorrow all.
[06:22] <drc> charlie-tca: Still Around?
[13:33] <charlie-tca> Anything new/better to add to release notes for Oneiric Alpha1?
[14:27] <charlie-tca> We should have a news item for alpha1 release today
[14:32] <plantoschka> is alpha 1 online already?
[14:32] <charlie-tca> no
[14:32] <charlie-tca> alpha1 will be release sometime today, UTC time
[14:33] <plantoschka> ok :)
[15:55] <cody-somerville> lol
[15:55] <cody-somerville> I've finally upgraded to natty (shame on me).
[15:56] <cody-somerville> Bluebird is the new theme, right? Whats the default icon set?
[15:56] <charlie-tca> no
[15:56] <charlie-tca> greybird with elementary xubuntu dark icons
[15:58] <charlie-tca> tying to crash dasher today 
[15:59] <cody-somerville> ah. I think I'll use bluebird. I like the blue. helps lower my blood pressure, lol
[15:59] <charlie-tca> it not as easy as typing yet 
[16:00] <charlie-tca> Yeah, It would have that effect. I like the greys, myself
[16:00] <charlie-tca> Then again, I can read better on lighter backgrounds
[16:00] <GridCube> dasher is the onscreen writing thing?
[16:00] <GridCube> ain't that for touchscreen devices?
[16:01] <cody-somerville> ah, selecting the greybird xfwm4 theme with greybird gtk theme looks nicer
[16:01] <cody-somerville> (then just the gtk theme)
[16:01] <charlie-tca> well, yeah... :-)
[16:02] <cody-somerville> Bluebird gtk theme w/ greybird xfwm4 theme is kinda hot
[16:03] <charlie-tca> dasher is anyone that can not use the hardware keyboard 
[16:06] <charlie-tca> but i seem to be only at about 2words per minute
[16:08] <charlie-tca> e Ican type about 40 
[16:10] <cody-somerville> not having a bottom panel is so weird
[16:10] <charlie-tca> It is there, but hidden
[16:11] <cody-somerville> I know,
[16:11] <charlie-tca> oh, yeah, and it is a launcher panel now
[16:11] <charlie-tca> I put my own in, two of them side by side, one is launchers and one is workspaces
[16:11] <cody-somerville> the weird part is how I have to look at the lower part of my screen now
[16:11] <charlie-tca> yeah, I gave up on that part
[16:12] <cody-somerville> wow, gmusicbrowser is kinda confusing
[16:15] <GridCube> I know i might be the only one here, but who else really dislikes having the exit icon on the upper panel? really close to the [x] close button? one of the very first things i do whit every install is moving the panel down XD
[16:16] <charlie-tca> I like it on the upper panel in the left corner
[16:16] <charlie-tca> no, right corner
[16:24] <cody-somerville> GridCube, Not sure what you mean. In natty, there is no exit icon... just the session menu in the upper right
[16:26] <charlie-tca> I couldn't keep that, either. I switched it out for the logout menu
[16:26]  * charlie-tca thinks it is really called Action Menu instead
[16:27] <GridCube> yeah that too
[16:29] <cody-somerville> hmm... my multimedia keys no longer work (except for volume). :(
[16:29] <charlie-tca> That's the kernel's fault
[16:30] <charlie-tca> unless they are missing from shortcuts again?
[16:31] <cody-somerville> hmm... they work in Exaile
[16:33] <GridCube> question
[16:33] <charlie-tca> sounds like the kernel to me 
[16:33] <GridCube> when gtk3 comes out, how will it be handled? both gtk engines will run simultanously or only one at each time?
[16:34] <GridCube> i mean, will xfce use gtk3 or just some apps?
[16:34] <charlie-tca> there are a few bug reports on that 
[16:35] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu will be using some Gtk3 apps, but Xfce will not
[16:35] <GridCube> oh ok
[16:35] <charlie-tca> So, we will have both gtk2 and gtk3 in Xubuntu
[16:35] <charlie-tca> for a very long time, too, apparently
[16:36] <GridCube> ok but will that compromise the system? in terms of speed or stability?
[16:36] <charlie-tca> unknown yet
[16:36] <GridCube> kk
[16:43] <charlie-tca> hm, shortcut keys don't all work
[16:44] <charlie-tca> apparently, Alt+F11 is not working at all
[16:44] <charlie-tca> If you full screen an app, it is stuck there
[16:47] <micahg> GridCube: not any more that any other library dependency, the only rule is one app cannot use both GTK2 and GTK3 at the same time
[16:47] <GridCube> i see
[16:47] <GridCube> yesterday i tried a gtk3 app on oneiric, and it failed :(
[16:48] <micahg> heh, which one?
[16:49] <GridCube> http://paste.ubuntu.com/616026
[16:49] <charlie-tca> because we aren't quite there yet, maybe?
[16:50] <charlie-tca> not everything has been ported over to gtk3 yet
[16:50] <micahg> ooh, that's a bug :), but yeah, kinda expected at alpha1
[16:51] <GridCube> :P
[16:51] <GridCube> thats why i didn't say anything about it
[16:51] <GridCube> XD
[17:19] <micahg> GridCube: gedit seems to work for me even with the errors
[17:22] <GridCube> yes
[17:22] <GridCube> it works
[17:22] <GridCube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/94002
[17:22] <GridCube> this happens too
[17:22] <GridCube> well not for me
[17:22] <GridCube> for a friend on 11.04
[17:22] <charlie-tca> it is a new bug
[17:22] <GridCube> is there a way to fix it
[17:23] <charlie-tca> This one, I think - bug 711571
[17:23] <GridCube> yes i found that
[17:24] <GridCube> but i don't understand it
[17:24] <charlie-tca> the workaround is to log out first, then shutdown from gdm using that little red symbol at the bottom
[17:24] <charlie-tca> that is the bug that causes the logout instead of shutdown. It is not a simple thing to fix
[18:03] <plantoschka> maybe lightdm will fix it?
[18:04] <charlie-tca> no, lightdm will not affect issues with Xorg
[18:04] <charlie-tca> it is not caused by gdm, which lightDM will replace
[18:07]  * GridCube know he might have already asked this
[18:07] <GridCube> will lightDM allow for user avatars?
[18:26] <charlie-tca> I don't know yet
[18:32] <micahg> lightdm is just a backend, you can have a custom front-end greeter on top of it
[19:33] <drc> OK, need a little VB help...created VM on the Oneiric32 ISO, installed and upgraded in VB.  What I can't figure out (although I *know* it will be a facepalm momnent) is how to save it so the next time I boot that VM it does not revert to the ISO.
[19:34] <drc> A URL will be fine.
[19:35] <charlie-tca> um, you shutdown, then remove the iso from the storage preferences
[19:35] <TheSheep> drc: Visual Basic?
[19:35] <drc> baa
[19:36] <charlie-tca> TheSheep - one, drc - zero    lol
[19:38] <charlie-tca> You don't delete the iso, just remove it from the controller
[19:38] <charlie-tca> I usually switch the controller to the hardware device
[19:39] <drc> Storage>IDE Controller?
[19:39] <GridCube> O_o
[19:39] <GridCube> drc you are using vbox?
[19:41]  * drc gives everyone 5 minutes to gather around before he performs the Daily FacePalm Ritual :)
[19:41] <davmor2> drc: under virtual box storage just click on the cd drive and then the picture of the cd to the right of the big drop down and then select unmount iso or what ever it says
[19:41] <drc> Thanks everyone
[19:50] <GridCube> drc_, http://imagebin.org/156503
[19:50] <GridCube> ah
[19:50] <GridCube> so late
[19:50] <charlie-tca> did he get it?
[19:51] <drc_> I got it
[19:51] <drc_> Like I said, facepalm
[19:51] <charlie-tca> heh
[19:52] <charlie-tca> That's we are here, just to help out once in a while :-)
[19:52] <drc_> One facepalm == 6 hours of fruitless searching, I think it's a good tradeoff
[19:52] <charlie-tca> Would be faster to ask sooner, wouldn't it?
[19:53] <drc_> hmmm, connection must have dropped...oh well
[19:53] <charlie-tca> I usually give things a day or two, but I think I am unusual in that.
[19:53] <GridCube> charlie-tca, being a person that study how and when people come asking for questions, let me tell you, they will brake things before asking
[19:54] <drc_> charlie-tca: I didn't waste 6 hours *this time*, I took the facepalm route :)
[19:54] <charlie-tca> That is sometimes a good thing. At least they try to find an answer
[19:54] <charlie-tca> Me, I usually wait a day or two, just to make sure I really, really broke things
[19:54] <GridCube> yeah, but im a librarian charlie-tca XD my job is providing them whit ennough information to find the answer faster
[19:54] <davmor2> drc_: You need to add the D'oh catch phrase to round things off :)
[19:55] <charlie-tca> heh, I suppose that is right
[19:55] <charlie-tca> maybe a slap in the head, too
[19:56]  * drc_ decides that the Xubuntu IRC has been taking nasty lessons from Debian IRC :)
[19:56] <charlie-tca> low blow!
[19:56]  * GridCube has never gone to debian irc
[19:56] <GridCube> XD
[19:56] <GridCube> oh yes once
[19:57] <GridCube> not nice people
[19:57] <GridCube> i had a silly problem and they where all like "go google it" and it was just "uncomment this line" kind of answer!
[19:58] <GridCube> but i didn't knew how to search :(
[19:58] <Unit193> I've heard Arch IRC isn't so bad... (I would have thought otherwise)
[19:58] <GridCube> ok, gotta take a bath and then i have to go to classes :D today we are studying biografical databases :P
[19:58] <drc_> Unit193: The reasonnis that the Arch people are so confident of their geekiness that they don;t need to prove it by being rude
[19:59] <GridCube> whats next? gentoo people being nice?
[19:59] <charlie-tca> I haven't found debian irc channel yet
[19:59]  * Unit193 wouldn't use gentoo
[20:00] <charlie-tca> fedora is pretty nice to deal with
[20:04] <drc_> The LMDE irc channel folk are nice...can't speak to the main LM channel
[20:06] <GridCube> c-ya
[20:06] <drc_> study hard
[20:06] <charlie-tca> huh?
[20:06] <charlie-tca> nice but can't speak to them?
[20:07] <drc_> charlie-tca: No, I can't say anthing about the main channel because I never used it
[20:09]  * charlie-tca slaps head. 
[20:09] <charlie-tca> should have read all the letters/words, I guess
[20:09]  * drc_ ducks
[20:09] <drc_> I should have been more precise.
[20:10]  * Unit193 quacks incessantly!  *QUACK* *QUACK* *QUACK*
[20:11]  * drc_ looks for his shotgun and Golden Retriever puppy
[20:11] <Unit193> You're going with puppy?? ;)
[20:12] <drc_> Gotta train her sometime
[20:13] <drc_> Beside, I figure it'll be like Peter and the Wolf, Unit193 will be so busy quacking, he can sneak up on him quietly
[20:13]  * charlie-tca thinks that is correct
[20:14]  * charlie-tca throws a big hammer at the *QUACK*
[20:15] <Unit193> There is a bot in another channel that says that ^^^ if you say /me ducks
[20:16]  * DarkEra almost thought he was in the Offtopic channel 
[20:20] <Unit193> drc_ isn't in there... (And thanks, now I had to watch it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILI3s7Wonvg )
[20:21] <charlie-tca> we think we are above mindless chatter here ;-)
[20:54] <charlie-tca> Alpha1 is released!
[20:56] <charlie-tca> Thanks to everybody that helped get this alpha1 out. 
[20:56] <charlie-tca> It was a real combined effort
[21:00] <drc_> And it's only slightly bØrken :)
[21:01] <charlie-tca> It's a lot further than it might have been. It is really great to have some help with it.
[21:01] <Unit193> Do you have the link to the page that lists what builds worked? (I forgot to bookmark it...)
[21:04] <charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/TechnicalOverview
[21:05] <charlie-tca> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2011-June/000853.html
[21:05] <charlie-tca> or the iso tracker?
[21:05] <charlie-tca> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/
[21:09] <Unit193> Hmmm.... I thought there was a page to check what ISOs got built correctly...
[21:09] <charlie-tca> oh, maybe the logs?
[21:10] <charlie-tca> but the logs are distro specific, you have to have a different url for each one
[21:11] <charlie-tca> or http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/
[21:11] <charlie-tca> which is where I look to see if the images updated
[21:11] <charlie-tca> all those pages, did I get it right yet?
[21:12] <charlie-tca> want more urls to look at?
[21:12] <Unit193> I'm not doing a good job of telling you want I was looking for (The cdimage one could work...)
[21:12] <charlie-tca> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/xubuntu/oneiric/
[21:13] <charlie-tca> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ubuntu/oneiric/
[21:13] <charlie-tca> I am running out of pages now...
[21:14] <Unit193> Thanks a bunch, charlie-tca!
[21:15] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[21:18] <charlie-tca> A review of Xubuntu 11.04 by Jim Lynch - http://desktoplinuxreviews.com/2011/06/01/xubuntu-11-04/
[21:18] <drc_> charlie-tca: Just took a look at the test for Xubuntu done yesterday.  If thats representirive of what's done daily, I'll do the live, manual and entire tests and leave you to do the re-size, wubi encrypted.  Sound like a plan?
[21:18] <charlie-tca> What test?
[21:18] <charlie-tca> the short test? or the case test for qa?
[21:19] <charlie-tca> Usually daily testijntg
[21:19] <charlie-tca> Usually daiu
[21:19] <drc_> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/xubuntu/all was the start page, so I guess it's QA
[21:19] <charlie-tca> Usually daily testing, you pick a different partitioning to use each day, instead of trying to test all the stuff everyday
[21:20] <drc_> Or is that only for milestones?
[21:20] <charlie-tca> That qa tracker is for milestones
[21:20] <drc_> ok then, back to the drawing board....
[21:20] <charlie-tca> daily you don't run everything each day, just run one or two installs a day, and change the partitioning method each day.
[21:21] <charlie-tca> By the end of the week, you did all those, without working all day at it
[21:21] <drc_> Sounds like a plan.
[21:21] <charlie-tca> I almost never did encrypted unless it was milestone testing
[21:22] <charlie-tca> it's a pain to do and a pain to write over it
[21:22] <drc_> One partitioning scheme per day it is, you want long or short test?
[21:22] <charlie-tca> short
[21:22] <drc_> :)
[21:22] <charlie-tca> make it easy for yourself. 
[21:22]  * drc_ wonders if he's mentioned he's lazy?
[21:23] <charlie-tca> I would do one image, too, like alternate cd today. If it fails, try the live cd
[21:23] <charlie-tca> and change that everyday too
[21:23] <charlie-tca> It helps make sure everything is working
[21:24]  * charlie-tca should probably say sometimes only one image works for days at a time, too
[21:24] <drc_> OK, back to the old plan.
[21:25] <charlie-tca> I have also had weeks where the images worked one day out of seven
[21:26] <drc_> I was wondering how you managed the testing (like yesterday's) on a daily basis.
[21:26] <charlie-tca> Can't
[21:27] <charlie-tca> If I ran one alternate and one live each day, that takes up to an hour and half, for one partitioning method
[21:27]  * micahg wonders if Firefox 5 was worth a mention in the release notes...(I guess that's not xubuntu specific)
[21:28] <charlie-tca> I would have if some let me know to mention it
[21:28] <charlie-tca> I would have if someone let me know to mention it
[21:28] <charlie-tca> sorry, micahg 
[21:28] <charlie-tca> I missed that
[21:28] <charlie-tca> I did not realize it was firefox 5 already
[21:29] <micahg> well, it's also for the Desktop image..
[21:29] <charlie-tca> We don't mind scooping them sometimes
[21:30] <micahg> heh
[21:30] <charlie-tca> I will make a note to check those versions. We can at least let everyone know what version we are using
[21:31] <micahg> alpha 2 will have 5 as well
[21:31] <micahg> most likely
[21:31] <charlie-tca> Then I will get it into those notes.
[21:32] <charlie-tca> Alpha1 for us is usually a "we did get it in, right?" thing
[21:32] <micahg> err, maybe not, if they release 5 on schedule, 6 will probably be in alpha2
[21:32] <micahg> at least the beta
[21:32] <micahg> charlie-tca: please make sure you include if it's a beta or not 
[21:32] <charlie-tca> We only got alpha1 images starting with maverick or natty
[21:32] <charlie-tca> oh, sure, now he wants even more from me :-)
[21:33] <charlie-tca> noted
[21:34] <micahg> cool, that means we're getting more legitimate
[21:35] <drc_> Too legit to quit
[21:38] <charlie-tca> yup
[21:38] <charlie-tca> we used to start at alpha2 
[21:39] <Unit193> I need to start testing the daily builds...
[21:39] <charlie-tca> tomorrow
[21:40] <charlie-tca> if we get an update
[21:40] <charlie-tca> Meeting minutes are on the Mailing lists,
[21:40] <charlie-tca> and at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[21:41] <Unit193> I read them... Are you still trying to get a meet bot in here on those days?
[21:41] <drc_> charlie-tca, Unit193: we need to coordinate the daily's so we don't duplicate each other and then miss something.
[21:41] <charlie-tca> good idea
[21:42] <charlie-tca> How would you like to do it? wiki page, email, put drc_ in charge of testing?
[21:43] <charlie-tca> rotate so we get different equipment testing them, too. 
[21:44] <Unit193> So I can't do this in VBox... OK!
[21:44] <drc_> I think the best way would be to drop in here before starting, that way charlie-tca could let us know if anything important/urgent come up.
[21:44] <charlie-tca> yes you can
[21:44] <charlie-tca> Okay
[21:45] <charlie-tca> That means I have to come in too?
[21:45] <charlie-tca> Unit193: I test in VBox for Xubuntu
[21:45] <drc_> hmmm...right :(
[21:45] <charlie-tca> heh
[21:45] <charlie-tca> I can do that. I might a day here and there, but you guys will figure it out
[21:46] <charlie-tca> I will at least be here until you know what you are doing 
[21:46] <charlie-tca> um, I might miss a day ...
[21:51] <Unit193> I'll never know what I'm doing...
[21:52] <drc_> This bears some more thinking on how it's divided up.  What say we drop in here for the next week to see how it goes, and then we can maybe make a more shceduled plan?  
[21:52] <Unit193> I'll be in here anyway, so sounds good...
[21:53] <Unit193> I just don't want to be the one that finds bugs :P
[21:53]  * drc_ thinks the best way would be page like http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/xubuntu/all for daily testing, but that would probably be too much work.
[21:54]  * drc_ takes off his thinking cap...it's causing brainfarts :(
[21:55] <drc_> Unit193: Well, being relatively newbies at this, we'd have to run them by charlie-tca, and *he* could file them?
[21:56] <drc_> It'd up his karma too.
[21:56] <charlie-tca> Sounds good to me, I will be around
[21:56] <charlie-tca> my karma?
[21:56] <charlie-tca> I have some again?
[21:58] <charlie-tca> We used to have a chart for qa smoke testing, where we record about a weeks worth of daily tests
[21:59] <charlie-tca> We could build our own daily testing chart
[21:59] <charlie-tca> We just make it a sub-page of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing
[22:00] <charlie-tca> and put enough spaces in a table to show a day or two at a time. You overwrite fails when they pass, and track which tests got done each day for three or four days at a time
[22:02] <charlie-tca> So let's try this for a week and see what we decide we do want
[22:02]  * drc_ wishes he said that....
[22:03]  * charlie-tca thought drc_  did say that
[22:03] <drc_> I'll probably be dropping in about 09:00 CDT (UTC-5, iirc) daily.
[22:04] <charlie-tca> I can drop in around 8:00 CDT then and check things out
[22:05] <charlie-tca> Well, at least I will be up and about and checking things out. I may not get in that early
[22:05] <charlie-tca> Some days I don't even get up before 6 your time
[22:06] <drc_> charlie-tca: You need may email address...as a fallback?
[22:06] <Unit193> I may be around at 1PM EST
[22:06]  * micahg finds some worms for the early birds...
[22:06] <charlie-tca> Which early birds?
[22:06] <micahg> you and drc_ :)
[22:07] <charlie-tca> drc_: not yet
[22:07]  * charlie-tca doesn't get on line *that* early
[22:08] <charlie-tca> at least on IRC 
[22:10]  * charlie-tca thinks drc_ and Unit193 will file the bugs. his karma is down to 5900 again
[22:11] <drc_> And mine up all the way up to....18!
[22:11] <charlie-tca> but that goes up when I triage bugs. hm, I think I lost almost 10,000 points in six months
[22:12] <charlie-tca> I started natty around 4000, so there is hope
[22:13] <charlie-tca> well, I am going relax for an hour or so
[22:13] <micahg> my karma is mostly uploads at this point
[22:14] <Unit193> My karma is NOTHING! :D
[22:14] <charlie-tca> They count better than bugs, though
[22:14] <charlie-tca> Unit193: we will fix that this cycle
[22:14] <Unit193> Erp...
[22:14] <micahg> charlie-tca: I still have a lot of bug karma though (I think I'm #13 for ubuntu bugs)
[22:14] <charlie-tca> wow
[22:14] <Unit193> I guess it's actually 14...
[22:15] <charlie-tca> I don't know where I am now, but it must be low
[22:15] <charlie-tca> I haven't done much since about natty alpha2
[22:15] <micahg> Unit193: yes, umm, 14th
[22:15] <drc_> 5982 karma
[22:16] <charlie-tca> You are doing good then, Dr_Who 
[22:16] <charlie-tca> drc_, rather
[22:16]  * micahg also gets bug karma for filing sync requests...
[22:16] <drc_> No charlie-tca That's yours. mine is 18
[22:16] <charlie-tca> yeah, every bug report filed gets you karma
[22:17] <charlie-tca> That seems low now. I will have to triage some bugs and raise it
[22:17] <drc_> As long as my karma does not exceed my age, I'm happy.
[22:18] <charlie-tca> It just sort of happens
[22:18] <charlie-tca> I went about two years before I even knew there was such a thing
[22:18] <Dr_Who> charlie-tca, heh ...  but yeah I'm doing good too ;-)
[22:19] <charlie-tca> Sorry, Dr_Who . Didn't mean to disturb you that way.
[22:19] <charlie-tca> but I am glad you are doing good!
[22:22] <Unit193> micahg: I was talking about my karma, not your place...
[22:23] <micahg> oh, heh
[22:25] <Unit193> Seems as I have the lowest karma...
[22:27] <drc_> Unit193: You'll come back as a bug, and charlie-tca will have to file and squash you.
[22:27] <micahg> Unit193: the answer to that is simple, just start doing :)
[22:27] <Unit193> drc_: That could be!
[22:28] <Unit193> micahg: I installed Xubuntu 11.04 before release. I'm not saying I was a tester, just testing it....
[22:28] <micahg> karma might die anyways
[22:38]  * drc_ has decided that if he was King of the World, distro reviewers would have to spena at least 8 work hours (after install) before writing a review, he's tired of reviews that focus on how pretty the install is :(
[22:47] <cody-somerville> How do I disable session saving? It seems to have gotten re-enabled on upgrade.
[22:49] <drc_> Settings>Session and Startup
[22:49] <drc_> >General
[22:50] <cody-somerville> yea, thats unchecked
[22:51] <cody-somerville> but its definitely loading a session at login
[22:51] <drc_> Look and see what's "if running" in Sessions, then?
[22:52] <drc_> I know if I leave pidgin and such running when I quit, it autostarts in the next session
[22:53] <drc_> Other than that, I'm out of ideas.
[22:54] <Unit193> You can delete the file (or dir...)
[22:54] <drc_> Unit193: ~/.cache/sessions?
[22:55] <Unit193> drc_: Might do
[23:02] <Unit193> Did we just kill him?
[23:09] <cody-somerville> It appears that option is no longer respected.
[23:09] <cody-somerville> as it saves a new session regardless
[23:15] <charlie-tca> try right click panel, panel -> Logout, uncheck save session?