[02:28] <drc> Are the nightly builds 7/week or ?
[02:49] <Unit193> He done gone...
[02:51] <drc> Charlie-tca? I know I was hoping one of the others would know (I'm trying to rough out a testing schedule ")
[02:53] <Unit193> [19:16:53] charlie-tca (~cjk@ubuntu/member/charlie-tca) has quit (Quit: Time to leave, I guess ...)
[02:53]  * drc turns off joins/parts...a holdover from really busy channels like #ubuntu
[02:54] <Unit193> That was before you got on... (After you got off too...)
[03:06] <drc> Unit193: 1) Is the machine you will be testing on 32 or 64?
[03:09] <Unit193> drc: The OS is 32 (Will be using VM if I can...)
[03:10] <drc> Unit193: Is the hardware 64 or 32?
[03:10] <Unit193> Supports 64 (If I really have to do an install, it will be on a 32 only)
[03:10] <drc> Can on VN 64 bit OS on 32 bit hardware?
[03:10] <drc> bag
[03:11] <micahg> no
[03:11] <drc> Didn't think so.
[03:12] <drc> micahg:  Do you if the nightly builds are 7/week or ?
[03:12] <micahg> idk how often the CDs are spun
[03:12] <drc> Thanks
[03:15] <drc> Unit193: It took me a while (and a few facepalm questions) to figure VB out (such as I have).
[03:15]  * Unit193 haz de smartz ;)
[03:16] <drc> Would you be more comfortable doing 32 bit testing (VB or hardware) or does it matter?
[03:16] <Unit193> I won't be doing any 64bit
[03:16] <drc> ok, 32 bit it is :)
[03:16] <Unit193> I'm not the only user of the 64bit computer
[03:16] <drc> Makes it easy :)
[03:43] <drc> Unit193: Still Here?
[03:44] <Unit193> drc: No I am not
[03:44] <drc> OK, when you came back let me know what you think of this:  http://pastebin.com/zuhMNeLY
[03:47] <Unit193> I would have to do manual?
[03:50] <drc> According to this schedule, yes.  They are not hard, I can walk you thru one (esp in VB, so you can be here too).  If you could do 64bit then I could do all the manual and you could do Entire Disk.
[03:50] <drc> If you really don't want to do manual, we could ge someone else (me, charlie-tca, someone) to do the manuals
[03:51] <Unit193> (The name just sounds bad...) What is it again? I don't remember... Maybe just a manual swap and HDD size?
[03:52] <drc> It's a manual partiton:  you specify what and how big the partitons are.  For testing a 1 gig swap and the rest for / would work.  Once you've done one, it's really easy
[03:53] <drc> VB default hhd is 8gig, iirc
[03:53] <drc> so 1 gig swap,and the rest for / will be fine
[03:54] <drc> Beside if you do it in VB, then you can always do it over :)
[03:54] <Unit193> I'm not bad at using linux...
[03:54] <Unit193> I just always do the auto path (Swap size = how much ram you have)
[03:54] <drc> I didn't mean to suggest anthing like that, sorry.
[03:55] <Unit193> drc: You didn't! I was just making sure you know I'm not totally stupid ;)
[03:55] <drc> :)
[03:56] <drc> Sorry, I tend to get in my lectural mode at times.
[04:02] <cody-somerville> wow. there is a serious performance issue with natty.
[04:03] <cody-somerville> I seem to be offering from unnaturally high iowaits
[04:03] <cody-somerville> : - (
[04:03] <cody-somerville> I think it has something to do with jbd2 or something.
[14:07] <charlie-tca> Good morning
[14:09] <ochosi> hey charlie-tca 
[14:09] <ochosi> so after a few days of testing, what do you think about the darker panel?
[14:09] <charlie-tca> Still using the revised theme
[14:09] <charlie-tca> DejaDup has a very dark icon
[14:10] <charlie-tca> the panel is working fine for me. I say go with it, and we tweak as we go through the cycle?
[14:11] <charlie-tca> I am upgrading this to Oneiric this weekend. Let's hope it works
[14:11] <ochosi> k, let's do that
[14:11] <ochosi> uuh, then good luck :)
[14:11] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: Can we add pavucontrol to defaults? It does make audio work most of the time
[14:12] <ochosi> also, as soon as you're on oneiric, you could test the latest greybird from git (i mean the gtk3 stuff)
[14:12] <ochosi> anyhow, gotta go now
[14:12] <charlie-tca> ochosi: yes, I may have lost my mind this time
[14:12] <charlie-tca> I will try to grab the git stuff then
[14:13] <ochosi> k, i'm off for the weekend
[14:13] <ochosi> have fun!
[14:13] <charlie-tca> Yoiu  too
[14:13] <ochosi> and probably i'll make it to the meeting on sunday
[14:13] <ochosi> if not, you know everything about artwork already anyway ;)
[14:13] <charlie-tca> Great! Maybe we can increase participation with that change, too
[15:02] <charlie-tca> No new images yet
[15:05] <drc> I saw....gives us more time to work on http://pastebin.com/z1dD70zx (I just couldn't leave well enough alone last night)
[15:06] <charlie-tca> Looks good to me.
[15:07] <drc> I didn't include upgrades because I think you said that you did that on hardware once you installed after A1?
[15:10] <charlie-tca> oh, yeah.
[15:10] <charlie-tca> but we test them every milestone, too
[15:11] <charlie-tca> I prepped my machine last night so will upgrade to Oneiric this weekend
[15:11] <charlie-tca> I will be running Oneiric Monday
[15:12] <drc> charlie-tca: I would have liked to mix the 32/64 up. but Unit193 can only test on 32 bit. Also, I gave you the resize and encrypt (being the more complicated) until I can figure it out (once I'm comfortable with testing in general)
[15:13] <drc> Any way, It's a start to deviate from :)
[15:14] <drc> Keeps us from duplication and everyone knows what they (and everyone else) is/are doing.
[15:14] <charlie-tca> That works
[15:14] <charlie-tca> Want to add it to the wiki?
[15:15] <drc> Not in that shape :(
[15:16] <charlie-tca> heh
[15:16] <charlie-tca> okay
[15:16] <charlie-tca> Are you on the xubuntu-devel mailing list?
[15:16] <drc> yes
[15:17] <drc> BTW, I agree, the new windows user is not our target audience.
[15:17] <charlie-tca> I started the marketing discussion again. Hopefully, we will get something besides just emails this time
[15:17] <drc> You mean "help" not "mail" ?
[15:20] <charlie-tca> I don't understand 
[15:20] <charlie-tca> where?
[15:21] <charlie-tca> yes, I think
[15:28] <drc> I meant: You would like people to actually help with marketing, not just email to the list?
[15:29] <charlie-tca> Yes, that's the idea I had ;-)
[15:29] <drc> Good Luck
[15:29] <charlie-tca> That seems to be a really hard thing to get help with, too.
[15:32] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: WARNING - I gave the UbuntuStudio guys your name to ask for help with converting the xubuntu-settings package for Studio use.
[15:33] <drc> Well, one suggestion I would have is to get Xubuntu included in the "blurbs" that are put out...Ubuntu and Kubuntu are talked about but Xubuntu is conspicuous by it's absence.  I'll try to find examples. Once I do, I'll post this to that list discussion.
[15:33] <charlie-tca> That's because I don't know what to put in, many times
[15:33] <charlie-tca> We have to get someone to write the news stuff for us.
[15:34] <knome> charlie-tca, you can remove the teleconference from the meeting agenda for now. i've been dead busy with other things, mostly life, and haven't had a second to think about that
[15:35] <charlie-tca> Thanks. Any suggestions how to get more people involved in marketing?
[15:35] <charlie-tca> knome: You know how that one goes. Everyone is willing to say "you did it wrong" but no one is willing to actually try and help with it.
[15:36] <knome> get a new blog and write about low-hanging fruit
[15:36] <knome> i did write a post in the ML about that, didn't i? (i might have forgotten to send)
[15:36] <charlie-tca> I don't know now. I remember you bi
[15:36] <charlie-tca> bringing it up, but don't know where?
[15:36] <knome> probably the ml
[15:36] <knome> let me search the history
[15:37] <knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2011-April/007770.html
[15:37] <knome> there we go
[15:37] <charlie-tca> What you mean "get a new blog"?
[15:37] <charlie-tca> I have to do it?
[15:38] <knome> i mean, when we get the new blog at xubuntu.org
[15:38] <charlie-tca> okay
[15:38] <charlie-tca> Can we resend that message with a new subject?
[15:38] <knome> i wouldn't start writing those articles to our current blog because the site is a bit crappy
[15:38] <knome> (at least a bit old)
[15:38] <knome> sure, or just fwd/re to that message :)
[15:39] <charlie-tca> take it out of themes and into Help[ with the website, maybe?
[15:39] <knome> sorry, didn't follow that
[15:39]  * drc thought charlie-tca did everything Xubuntu relate.
[15:39] <charlie-tca> I want to change the subject to "Help with the Xubuntu website" or something 
[15:39] <knome> right
[15:39] <knome> charlie-tca, you are welcome to do that
[15:40] <charlie-tca> Thank you. Wouldn't do it w
[15:40] <knome> charlie-tca, probably better to send that to the users ML then
[15:40] <charlie-tca> Thank you. Wouldn't do it without asking the author first
[15:40] <charlie-tca> Good idea! I can send it to both lists
[15:40] <knome> but as i said, i think we need to start writing those short things to our blog only when we have our new blog set up
[15:40] <charlie-tca> Also, want to try to get something like that into the newsletter
[15:41] <knome> yeah.. could have some chances
[15:43] <charlie-tca> Got to keep trying. You been pushing it for a long time, I been pushing it for a long time. Maybe this is the year to get more people involved?
[15:44] <charlie-tca> knome: I will simply mark the tele-conference as completed/replaced by email on the ML
[15:44] <drc> Asssuming that the nightly builds get into a regular cycle, is it normally a 7/week or 5/week or ?
[15:44] <charlie-tca> 7 days a week
[15:45] <knome> charlie-tca, i hope so. tbh, things are not looking as good as they could with shimmer as mr. shuttleworth decided to go with a different gtk3 engine
[15:45] <charlie-tca> oh, no!
[15:46] <knome> well yeah
[15:46] <charlie-tca> Hm, big problem trying to change/include it?
[15:46] <knome> means that if we do a theme for xubuntu, we need to do the theme again, if we want it to be available for other distros..
[15:46] <charlie-tca> Ubuntu is out by itself again, huh?
[15:46] <knome> charlie-tca, well, all distros can probably just include both of the engines, but that's crap again
[15:46] <knome> yeah, bit like.
[15:47] <charlie-tca> Going to be an interesting couple of years, I think.
[15:47] <knome> as ochosi said, he (and me too) thought that the engine wars could have ended with gtk3 coming out
[15:47] <knome> i suppose this is closely related to unity/g3 shell thing
[15:47] <charlie-tca> heh, Got to have something to fight about.
[15:48] <knome> probably yeah, but that isn't a very solid business plan to fight about everything
[15:49] <knome> even if it meant you'd have a technology (probably worse) than others do
[15:49] <charlie-tca> true
[15:51] <charlie-tca> I think Mark decided on Unity before Gnome decided on Gnome3, even, though. Gnome had said there would be no version 3
[15:51] <charlie-tca> and after unity was announced, changed their minds
[15:51] <knome> i don't know, i didn't follow the conversation
[15:51] <charlie-tca> I did a little research back into it
[15:52] <knome> what ever the truth is, i really think gnome and ubuntu should have started to work cooperatively on this
[16:09]  * drc looks for the unicorns and pixies :)
[16:11] <drc> charlie-tca: What do you think about a 7/week testing cycle (http://pastebin.com/Gdg4hg6G). That way everything is covered once a week.
[16:15] <drc> It means only 2 tests a day...with 3 testers now, it gives us more flexability to react without adding to one's workload or messing with the schedule.
[16:24] <charlie-tca> I think that is too many days. The cycle is six months. daily testing 7 days a week for six months is a lot. We also should have something that says if a day is missed, it's either covered by another tester.
[16:24] <charlie-tca> I think we need a day off now and again. yes, there will be many days without images, but even so, we should not schedule anything that makes a person feel bad about taking a day off
[16:25] <drc> True Dat
[16:30] <drc> One more question, then I'll come up with a final draft plan and quit bothering you :)
[16:31] <drc> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/xubuntu/all says the encryption test are to be dome with the ALT ISO...wouldn't someone be more likely to use the LiveCD to do an encrypted install?
[16:32] <charlie-tca> Can't do a full encrypted drive with the live cd
[16:32] <charlie-tca> You can only do /home
[16:32] <drc> ah, only home?
[16:32] <drc> Understand
[16:32] <charlie-tca> yeah
[16:43] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I would guess you already saw this, but just in case, we might think about it: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-June/033344.html
[16:44] <GridCube> good evening mister charlie-tca :)
[16:44] <charlie-tca> Good evening, GridCube 
[17:14] <drc> OK, final draft plan   http://pastebin.com/aYBESyTN
[17:17] <charlie-tca> Let's try it
[17:18] <charlie-tca> If I read that right, we cover all the tests on all the images every 4 days?
[17:18] <drc> ok...Day 1 starts the next nightly build?
[17:18] <charlie-tca> Sure
[17:18] <drc> Yes, if I've don't my homework correctly...double-check me to make sure I didn't leave any out, please.
[17:19] <drc> Er...every 4 testing days, we can say we test every other day if we want, and then it takes 8 days to cover, etc.
[17:20] <drc> Unit193: You here?
[17:21] <charlie-tca> well, let's decide
[17:22] <drc> Up to you, you're the jefe :) Personally I'd say let's test it every other day for now (it's early alpha and that way we can adjust it easier if we need to).
[17:23] <charlie-tca> What does Unit193 think about this?
[17:23] <charlie-tca> where is he hiding today?
[17:23] <drc> Disneyland?
[17:25] <charlie-tca> I should have gone there, too 
[17:33] <drc> No, I changed my mind, let's do it every day for 2 cycles; that will let us see if it works faster.  Then we can decide if we want to go every other day.
[17:33] <charlie-tca> okay
[17:34] <drc> After the 2 cycle test, we can send it to the ML and figure out how to formally write it up and add it to the wiki.
[17:37] <charlie-tca> drc: got all the tests in there
[17:39] <drc> Good
[17:44] <charlie-tca> hm, is it Unit193 or GridCube we are looking for?
[17:44] <charlie-tca> GridCube is one of the milestone testers
[17:45] <drc> Unit193 was talking about daily testing, Grid about milestones.  Unit193 can only do 32bit testing, however.  Are there any more people that "normally" help you with the testing that we can plug in?
[17:46] <charlie-tca> no
[17:46] <charlie-tca> I did it all for two years +
[17:46] <drc> super-charlie-tca
[17:46] <charlie-tca> tired-charlie-tca
[17:47]  * drc wonders if he ought to hold out for more money?
[17:47] <charlie-tca> heh
[17:47] <charlie-tca> sure, and put me in for some too?
[17:48] <GridCube> :D
[17:50] <drc> Hey GridCube: You want in on the daily testing (see http://pastebin.com/aYBESyTN ) ?  I think we have it down to just one test perperson per day (except super-charlie-tca, of course), so it won't be the long drill the Milestone testing was.
[17:56] <GridCube> drc, i can not asure you that i will be able to do that sorry :/
[17:57] <drc> OK...worth a shot :)
[17:57] <charlie-tca> Better to say no than say yes and then not be able to
[17:58] <GridCube> if you ask me those days and i can i will try, but it has to be a case by case thing :P
[17:59] <drc> Deal!
[18:18] <Unit193> charlie-tca , drc: Looking
[18:20] <charlie-tca> We are willing to hjave
[18:20] <charlie-tca> We are willing to have day by day help! It does work.
[18:21] <drc> Oh yeah!
[18:30]  * drc catches charlie-tca looking towards the bullpen, looking to see if the relief pitchers are actually warming up after 2 years :)
[18:31]  * charlie-tca is taking the wait and see approach
[18:32]  * drc moves his chaw to the other cheek and spits.
[18:33]  * charlie-tca couldn't believe there were testers for alpha1, even
[18:33] <charlie-tca> tbh, we have had some help with the milestones
[18:34] <drc> biab
[18:36] <Unit193> Marketing Xubuntu: People that don't like Unity and want something close to the old Gnome look
[18:36] <charlie-tca> I hesitate to use "old Gnome look" because it is subject to changing
[18:37] <Unit193> Yes, but what about Unity alt?
[18:37] <charlie-tca> That might be a good approach
[18:38] <charlie-tca> Know anyone that can help with selling Xubuntu?
[18:38] <Unit193> I don't think so...
[18:51] <Unit193> Along the lines of Larry Cafiero, there are some statewide events (Like OLF here) Could someone maybe use that time to market Xubuntu?
[18:54] <charlie-tca> yes, but it usually requires someone local that can attend
[18:55] <drc> To be honest, while local events a a good idea, I think that if charlie-tca is right, and I think he is (We are in a good position to look towards those intermediate and expert users), then the 1) the website and 2) reviews and blogs (that will show up in a google search) are the first approach we do.
[18:55] <charlie-tca> Our budget is kind of low
[18:57] <drc> We need to keep our website absolutely up to date, add Xubuntu to the K/Ubuntu PR blergs that are released and get outside reviewers to look at Xubuntu (not just K/U) seriously.
[18:57] <Unit193> It was worth a shot...
[18:59] <charlie-tca> It is always worth suggesting
[19:00] <charlie-tca> website is going to be problematic. We are in the middle of switching it from drupal to wordpress
[19:00] <Unit193> (That's another reason I didn't put it on the ML; Public shoot downs are never as good...
[19:01] <charlie-tca> True
[19:01] <charlie-tca> Why not send that "instead of Unity or Gnome shell" to the ML, though?
[19:01] <Unit193> Because I'm scared of sending to ML :P (Really, I don't even send to our LoCo)
[19:07] <drc> Quick change of topics, while all three of us are here, when we get the next daily build, Day 1 is declared and Unit193 will do the 32bit LiveCD Test, I'll do the 64bit Alt Test, and super-charlie-tca will do the 64bit LiveCD-Resize and 32bit Alt=Encrypt Tests?
[19:08] <charlie-tca> Okay, I can do that
[19:11] <charlie-tca> That should be tomorrow. I requested the server be kicked back in, so we get new images starting tomorrow
[19:13] <Unit193> Tomorrow should work
[19:25] <charlie-tca> maybe #ubuntu-marketing would help us?
[19:27] <Unit193> You're the smart one... (I don't know as much about that as you and I would guess drc also doesn't)
[19:28]  * drc 's motto is "If ignorance is bliss, I'm the happiest man on earth".
[19:31] <charlie-tca> How did I get to be the smart one?
[19:33] <Unit193> Easy! sysi wasn't around! ;)
[19:34] <charlie-tca> lol
[19:35] <Unit193> Can't seem to find the command that starts the correct xfce4-session...
[19:36] <charlie-tca> from a tty if no desktop is running - startxfce4
[19:36] <charlie-tca> from a tty or terminal if desktop is running - xfce4-session
[19:37] <Unit193> charlie-tca: Thanks, sadly NX closes with the correct command...
[19:39] <Unit193> (Just had to make sure I was using the correct command)
[21:37] <charlie-tca> micahg: what will I need to do to replace gdm with lightDM this weekend? 
[21:38] <micahg> charlie-tca: change it in the seed and possible respin xubuntu-meta, I can do one of those :)
[21:38] <charlie-tca> no, for my own use. I will be installing Oneiric
[21:38] <micahg> charlie-tca: ah, just install lightdm, debconf will ask you which one you want to use
[21:38] <charlie-tca> okay
[21:39] <charlie-tca> I like the other one, too. I just thought I would try before pushing too hard to make it default
[21:40] <charlie-tca> I also want to explore the possibility of installing both firefox and midori as browsers in the installations, not on live cd
[21:42] <charlie-tca> finally, I know what is closing these channels on me
[21:44] <micahg> well, that's another meg at least
[21:44] <charlie-tca> But space is not so critical when it is an installation only app
[21:44] <micahg> I'd suggest waiting to see how much room we have to work with
[21:45] <charlie-tca> We can't just put a hook or something saying install this one too?
[21:45] <micahg> charlie-tca: it still needs to be on the CD, just not in the live fs unless I'm misunderstanding something
[21:45] <charlie-tca> oh
[21:45] <charlie-tca> I see. I did not know that.
[21:45] <micahg> I could be wrong :)
[21:45] <charlie-tca> me too
[21:46] <knome> anything in the default installation needs to be on the cd
[21:46] <charlie-tca> and yes, space might be critical this cycle
[21:46] <charlie-tca> I would take pavucontrol over most stuff, then
[21:46] <knome> i suppose we can cut that down a notch with the unused wallpapers etc., if that is not done already
[21:47] <charlie-tca> nope
[21:47] <charlie-tca> we only got two or three, don't we?
[21:47] <micahg> charlie-tca: why pavucontrol over xfce4-mier
[21:47] <micahg> *xfce4-mixer
[21:47] <knome> charlie-tca, there is still the xfce wallpapers?
[21:47] <charlie-tca> micahg: pavucontrol and xfce4-mixer
[21:47] <charlie-tca> pavucontrol is additional, it makes audio work with pulse audio for most users
[21:47] <micahg> charlie-tca: xfce4-mixer does that already
[21:47] <charlie-tca> no
[21:48] <charlie-tca> It doesn't
[21:48] <micahg> yes, it does
[21:48] <charlie-tca> That is one of the biggest problems we get in #xubuntu
[21:48] <charlie-tca> and installing pavucontrol fixes it for most users
[21:48]  * micahg uses it to do it :)
[21:49] <micahg> hmm, pavucontrol is 50k smaller, idk about the deps though
[21:50] <charlie-tca> Well, for the majority of users with no audio, installing pavucontrol makes audio work
[21:50] <charlie-tca> That has become the first response now to "no audio"
[21:50] <micahg> right, we don't ship xfce4-mixer anymore
[21:50] <micahg> oh, I guess we do, weird
[21:51] <knome> charlie-tca, that's true, but we should really fix the bug itself (no mute in pa) rather than push pavucontrol as default
[21:51] <micahg> right, speaker mute by default is a bug
[21:52]  * micahg guesses lennart's "fix" was to write pavucontrol
[21:52] <charlie-tca> speaker mute by default has been a bug for almost the life of Xubuntu
[21:52] <charlie-tca> We only got one release that it wasn't muted
[21:52] <micahg> yep, it's a pulseaudio but I think
[21:53] <charlie-tca> We got plenty of bug reports for it, but in the meantime, users are frustrated with it not working
[21:54] <micahg> charlie-tca: well, the fix w/out pavucontrol is to open xfce4-mixer and increase the speaker volume
[21:54] <charlie-tca> That fails for most users
[21:54] <micahg> wfm
[21:55] <charlie-tca> pavucontrol is a solid way to get audio for the majority of our users with problems. Nothing else works for them.
[21:55] <micahg> k, well, replacing xfce4-mixer w/pavucontrol might be an option (would probably save space)
[21:56] <charlie-tca> Why not in addition to. Installing pavucontrol does not require removal of the mixer
[21:56] <charlie-tca> it doesn't add itself to the panel, just to the menu
[21:57] <micahg> pavucontrol is a mixer though
[21:57] <charlie-tca> but it doesn't use the panel/indicator area at all
[21:57]  * micahg also thought sound control was happening through the sound menu
[21:57] <micahg> s/menu/indicator
[21:57] <micahg> unless that's not installed by defaulr
[21:57] <micahg> *default
[21:58] <charlie-tca> pavucontrol installs as an item in Multimedia only
[21:58] <charlie-tca> but it allows the user to turn on his audio
[21:59] <charlie-tca> I don't know all the ins and outs, but I know how to get sound for most of the issues our users have. 
[23:12] <astraljava> Guys, where does support for xubuntu+1 take place? #ubuntu+1, here, or...?
[23:12] <Unit193> ubuntu+1
[23:12] <astraljava> Well, support maybe not in its traditional sense.
[23:12] <astraljava> Unit193: Thanks.
[23:13] <Unit193> What type of support?
[23:18] <astraljava> No idea, just someone asked on #ubuntu+1 where to get it.