[00:05] <Ian_Corne> weird
[00:05] <Ian_Corne> my nm seems to be working fine..
[00:06] <Ian_Corne> any place i can check when i booted?
[00:07] <penguin42> when?
[00:17] <yofel> erm, kern.log as timestamps
[00:17] <penguin42>  /proc/uptime tells you seconds since boot
[00:17] <yofel> that too
[00:17] <yofel> well, just run 'update' to get it human readable
[00:18] <yofel> er, uptime ^^
[00:23] <Ian_Corne> penguin42: but i suspend
[00:24] <Ian_Corne> so that doesn't work :)
[00:24] <penguin42> ah
[00:24] <Ian_Corne> Guess i booted Jun 1
[00:24] <Ian_Corne> when did the NM problems start?
[00:25] <Ian_Corne> just want to know if maybe i'm just running the old nm
[00:26] <yofel> new NM has a version like 0.8.999
[00:26] <yofel> got in a few days ago
[03:31] <anadon> hey, I'd like feedback and critiques on a alternate file system organization.  http://pastebin.com/NEvNH7mf
[03:31] <anadon> *an
[03:49] <pfifo> anadon, what are you doing?
[03:49] <pfifo> like stacking/merging the levels up to provide programs and libs or something?
[03:52] <anadon> creating a FS based largely on inheritance of data as so to minimize data replication and create a more regular pattern among system resources, programs, etc.
[03:52] <anadon> still in very early dev/thought
[03:53] <anadon> I'm reading up on this as fast as I can read, but there's some history I'm having a hard time getting
[03:53] <anadon> a goal is to make regular the organization of available programs, resources, etc.
[03:54] <anadon> simplify where/how programs are kept, cleaned, maintained, etc.
[03:54] <anadon> This might be over stepping its bounds and call for a new kind of partition, but I'm still trying to gather data on that.
[03:54] <pfifo> how can it get any simpler than all of them in /usr/bin
[03:55] <anadon> well, they're not all in /usr/bin
[03:55] <anadon> there's a few almost at root, and some in each profile
[03:55] <anadon> I'd like to get them all in one area
[03:56] <anadon> everything runnable in one place, easily findable in ~
[03:56] <pfifo> but that seems to go aginst the idea of not replicating data
[03:56] <anadon> and this allows for multiple OS's on a partition
[03:57] <anadon> this is where I don't know if a new partition format will come into play: folder inheritence
[03:57] <yofel> the reason for putting things in /usr is to share data (over the network for example)
[03:57] <yofel>  /bin is for system critical binaries that are used before /usr can be mounted, /usr can then be shared by multiple systems over NFS for example
[03:58] <anadon> I was going with more you had to have a profile on the system to get anything out of it.
[03:58] <pfifo> anadon, the future seems to be pushing for a partitionless setup like LVM
[03:58] <yofel> right, btrfs implements subvolumes (works quite well)
[03:58] <anadon> sec, let me look it up.
[03:59] <anadon> that's some of what I'm getting at, but not the OS's part
[04:01] <pfifo> theres no reason why you couldnt putmutiple os on a partition with a FHS in each subfolder, a simple chroot/pivot_root will take care of that at boot time
[04:01] <anadon> anyways, this is I think more of a re-write of unix tradition, so I don't know how implementable it ever will be.
[04:01] <yofel> sure,  but how would you handle the example I gave, having parts of the system on a server, and only having a base OS that boots the system on every PC
[04:02] <jbicha> I'm not so convinced that LVM is necessarily the future
[04:02] <pfifo> anadon, dont forget the broblems that come along with non standard setups like livwecds and nfs based diskless nodes
[04:02] <yofel> well, btrfs subvolumes and snapshots take care of what I need LVM for personally
[04:03] <anadon> I'd say there would be two real ways to address this.  One would be to load the OS from the OS booted, or have an image set up that its directed to.
[04:03] <jbicha> I don't think trying to completely overhaul the FHS is going to work very well, others have tried...
[04:03] <anadon> nfs diskless node are new to me, what's the google search?
[04:03] <pfifo> i agree, its a lost cause
[04:03] <pfifo> anadon, "slim client"
[04:04] <anadon> been there, like the idea, still learning about how to make one once I get the hardware
[04:05] <anadon> what would the issue with liveCDs be?
[04:05] <anadon> btw, this thread isn't trying to kill me, like #linux.  Thankyou for that.
[04:06] <pfifo> anadon, right off the top of my head is the transition to initramfs to the main root fs. also what about stackable filesysems where at first uoi only have a small portion of the root fs loaded
[04:06] <pfifo> s/uoi/you/
[04:07] <anadon> you're going to have to tell me more about those.  They haven't been touched by that loony bin known as my university.
[04:08] <anadon> gawd, my uni is crazy.  they even have a custom compiler for c++
[04:08] <anadon> case 1 ... 99:
[04:08] <anadon> actually works
[04:09] <CarlFK> how do I tell what modules are included in a kernel?
[04:10] <yofel> included or loaded?
[04:10] <pfifo> anadon, you should learn LFS and then try to install LFS with a custom FHS to see how hard it is to actually get working
[04:10] <CarlFK> pciehp in particular.   seams to be included, but I didn't find it in grep -i pciehp /boot/config-2.6.39-3-generic
[04:10] <anadon> where would I even start with a custom FHS?
[04:11] <pfifo> right there LFS with a custom FHS that incorprates your ideas
[04:12] <yofel> not sure, that's where I would look :/
[04:12] <yofel> if nobody else has an idea ask in #ubuntu-kernel
[04:12] <CarlFK> I see it in syslog: Jun  4 21:46:33 pc8 kernel: [    0.590492] pciehp: PCI Express Hot Plug Controller Driver version: 0.4
[04:12] <anadon> ok, this is going to take awhile...thanks!
[04:12] <CarlFK> ah, right.  I keep forgetting #u has it's own class A on freenode :)
[04:14] <pfifo> CarlFK, find /lib/modules | grep ko
[04:14] <anadon> Also, one last question.  Where would I find an authoritative book on kernel design, implementation, and comparison between kernels such as linux 2.6, openBSD, freeBSD, and plan 9?
[04:14] <CarlFK> pfifo: so if it isn't there, it is in the kernel? :)
[04:14] <trism> CarlFK: looks like it is CONFIG_HOTPLUG_PCI_PCIE, which is set to y in lucid anyway
[04:15] <pfifo> CarlFK, either built on or not supported
[04:15] <CarlFK> trism: ah right.  not always the same. thanks
[04:22] <trism> CarlFK: yeah, I usually grep the Kbuild files if I can't find the option for a module, since they often end with "the module will be called X"
[04:23] <trism> CarlFK: in the kernel source that is
[04:23] <CarlFK> I try to avoid that end of the pool :)
[04:24] <CarlFK> I use to do the gentoo.  I'm better now.
[04:25] <CarlFK> tail * isn't too bad
[07:32] <axscode> wheres the Preference->Appearance goes?
[07:32] <axscode> or what should be installed to have it again.
[10:42] <head_victim> Is there a torrent to the daily iso? The image server is so slow :/
[11:40] <elros> I found out that ubuntuone control panel doesn't find an internet connection, but it exists, obviously. This may be related to my problem of three network managers
[11:41] <elros> no actual problems with connecting to internet, but the OS doesn't know that on some level
[17:41] <BUGabundo> guud afternoon
[17:41] <penguin42> Hey BUGs
[17:44] <BUGabundo> fuuuuuuuuuuu
[17:45] <BUGabundo> had to stop NM just to start pidgin
[17:45] <BUGabundo> wth
[17:49] <BUGabundo> anyone wknows how to change pidgin input box size?
[17:49] <BUGabundo> I can't see what I'm typing
[17:51] <penguin42> it's never been smaller than a line for me
[17:52] <penguin42> I can't see any options
[17:56] <BUGabundo> I used to drag it up
[19:22] <BUGabundo> this is nbonsense
[19:22] <BUGabundo> why those my laptop ALWAYS suspends when I close the lid?
[19:22] <BUGabundo> I NEVER set that on any of my PCs
[19:22] <BUGabundo> its stupid
[19:23] <BUGabundo> and still i have no way to change it
[19:23] <BUGabundo> getting really really tired of this UI changes
[19:27] <Ian_Corne> :D
[19:27] <Ian_Corne> we've been sooo spoiled with alphas before now :)
[19:29] <BUGabundo> ffuuuuuuu
[19:32] <micahg> BUGabundo: that's GNOME3 :)
[19:32] <BUGabundo> micahg: ffuuuuuuu
[19:33] <jpds> BUGabundo: Bar?
[19:33] <micahg> BUGabundo: http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2011/02/02/is-gnome-3-going-to-melt-your-laptop/
[19:34] <BUGabundo> jpds: wanna go fix the mirrors?
[19:34] <BUGabundo> at least thw in PT are dead
[19:34] <BUGabundo> *two
[19:34] <BUGabundo> micahg: ill change WM soon
[19:35] <jpds> BUGabundo: Can you pay for a my plane ticket to PT?
[19:35] <BUGabundo> can't take it anymore
[19:35] <BUGabundo> or ditro all toghether
[19:35] <BUGabundo> even better.
[19:35] <micahg> BUGabundo: I think you just need to switch screensavers, but I can't be sure as I don't use GNOME3
[19:35] <BUGabundo> stop using the PC
[19:35] <BUGabundo> and just stick with my laptop
[19:35] <BUGabundo> after 6 years of trying to use Ubuntu :(
[19:35] <BUGabundo> jpds: sure I can
[19:35] <BUGabundo> the question is if I wanna
[19:35] <Omega> Why are you complaining in #ubuntu+1
[19:36] <BUGabundo> micahg: what screensavers?
[19:36] <jpds> BUGabundo: Well played, good sir.
[19:36] <BUGabundo> ppl still use that?
[19:36] <BUGabundo> I just let DPMS turn screen off after 10 min
[19:36] <BUGabundo> Omega: I am? really ?
[19:36] <micahg> BUGabundo: xscreensaver seems to DTRT on laptop lid close, but I'm running Xfce on oneiric :)
[19:36] <BUGabundo> when stuff brakes for 2 cycles , I think i can
[19:36] <BUGabundo> I have a kmail bug opened for 4 cycles
[19:37] <BUGabundo> *four*
[19:37] <Omega> Uhm, you're using an alpha release and you're expecting stuff not be break?
[19:37] <Omega> Why not stick to the LTS?
[19:37] <BUGabundo> mauauauaua
[19:37] <BUGabundo> LTWS LOL
[19:37] <BUGabundo> someone has to endure this
[19:37] <micahg> Omega: you're not familiar with whom you are speaking :)
[19:37] <BUGabundo> so other users get a miled stable OS for 6 months
[19:37] <BUGabundo> I'm the crist here
[19:38] <Omega> micahg, And who might that be?
[19:38] <micahg> Omega: BUGabundo is like captain +1
[19:38] <BUGabundo> Omega: FYI I've been *always** running devel cycle on metal since 7.04
[19:38] <Omega> Wow, you must be a pro!
[19:38] <Omega> Really, does it change anything?
[19:38] <BUGabundo> ahahaaha
[19:38] <BUGabundo> you can't even imagine
[19:38] <BUGabundo> its so nice to file critical bugs on libc6 or pythong
[19:38] <BUGabundo> ARGGGG pidgin is killing me
[19:39] <BUGabundo> can't see what I'm typing
[19:39]  * micahg had to switch to xchat due to E_TOOMANYCHANNELS
[19:39] <BUGabundo> how many do you have?
[19:39] <BUGabundo> I have 3 social netowkrs
[19:40] <BUGabundo> 4 IRC servers
[19:40] <Omega> irssi for lyfe
[19:40] <BUGabundo> and a screen tall ofc tabs
[19:40] <micahg> ATM, 30 on freenode
[19:40] <BUGabundo> meh
[19:40] <BUGabundo> im on #cyanogenmod
[19:40] <micahg> pidgin kept flooding freenode, so I gave up
[19:40] <BUGabundo> try beating the OFFTOPIC that goes in there
[19:40] <BUGabundo> oh it does that when it looses connection
[19:40] <BUGabundo> you have to close the #s
[19:41] <BUGabundo> and reconnect
[19:41] <BUGabundo> Omega: I'm getting to a point I just want *some* stuff to just work
[19:42] <BUGabundo> I only use the la+laptop to open FF7, chromium 14 and pidgin
[19:42] <BUGabundo> that's it
[19:42] <BUGabundo> so I really don't mind what ever is running under it
[19:42] <BUGabundo> but when this basic stuff breaks
[19:42] <BUGabundo> I go mad
[19:44] <Omega> Install openbox and use that for a while then.
[19:44] <Omega> (That's what I do)
[19:52] <micahg> BUGabundo: when I got to 21 or 22 channels, that workaround was no longer sufficient
[19:52] <BUGabundo> micahg: what work around ?
[19:53] <micahg> BUGabundo: closing the channels and reconnect
[19:53] <BUGabundo> ahh
[19:53] <BUGabundo> I don't do that
[19:54] <astraljava> I have 5 servers, each in their own screen session. Most channels are on freenode, currently 18. I try to keep under 20, so that Esc+# still works for everyone.
[21:36] <BUGabundo> lets see if Omega was leing or not
[21:36] <Ian_Corne> :)
[21:36] <BUGabundo> btb
[21:37] <Omega> Hah.
[21:44] <Ian_Corne> Omega: tbh an alpha should be somewhat workable, how else are you going to have testers, test te system :)
[21:46] <Omega> Ian_Corne, I agree, but he was talking about switching distros because of an alpha not being workable enough.
[21:46] <Ian_Corne> ah
[21:46] <Ian_Corne> well if his only interest is alpha testing
[21:46] <Ian_Corne> it's still a valid choice :)
[21:55] <Viper550> How do you change the gtk theme on the lightdm greeter?
[21:58]  * BUGabundo slaps Omega with a big wet trout
[21:58]  * BUGabundo slaps the entire #ubuntu-devel too
[21:59] <BUGabundo> how to I reset gnome ?
[21:59] <BUGabundo> deleting .gnome* aint doing it
[21:59] <BUGabundo> I've lost the System Menu
[21:59] <BUGabundo> uhh uhh
[22:02] <BUGabundo> LOL
[22:02] <BUGabundo> no right button on the mouse
[22:05] <Ian_Corne> BUGabundo: .config has stuff too
[22:06] <BUGabundo> too much stuff in there
[22:06] <Ian_Corne> and .and .gconf too
[22:06] <Ian_Corne> is there no "failsafe" ?
[22:06] <Ian_Corne> or make a new account :p
[22:06] <BUGabundo> ehe
[22:06] <BUGabundo> nice idea
[22:06] <BUGabundo> let me test guess session
[22:07] <BUGabundo> humm
[22:07] <BUGabundo> no guess session
[22:07] <BUGabundo> wth
[22:07] <Ian_Corne> guest session?
[22:07] <Ian_Corne> is that on by default?
[22:07] <astraljava> I believe that's not implemented yet.
[22:08] <BUGabundo> fuuuuuu
[22:08] <BUGabundo> there goes that idea
[22:10] <Viper550> okay, anyone here been playing around with lightdm
[22:11] <BUGabundo> ill play with anything
[22:11] <BUGabundo> as long I *can* actually use it
[22:11] <Viper550> *has anyone here
[22:11] <BUGabundo> unity is lame
[22:11] <BUGabundo> metacity past broken
[22:11] <BUGabundo> and anything with light on its name... well... I want it working!
[22:11] <BUGabundo> oh and kde... cof.... yofel cof
[22:11] <Viper550> BUGabundo, it looks like a poor man's GDM
[22:12] <BUGabundo> GDM is a Session Manager
[22:12] <BUGabundo> we don't even have that anymore
[22:13] <Viper550> no I mean, login screen design-wise
[22:13] <yofel> what? lightDM? I'm not sure what's supposed to be light about it but oh well... and KDE is a dep mess currently if you mean that
[22:13] <Viper550> yofel, its light because it doesn't have GDM'
[22:13] <Viper550> 's years of bloat in it
[22:14] <BUGabundo> and funcionailty too
[22:14] <yofel> well, it's supposed to get a gtk qt and whatever interface, so that's not going to be light
[22:14] <Viper550> for a login screen, it's not that bad (though I'm still trying to get the GTK theme to something more tolerable)
[22:14] <yofel> well, it *is* light functionality wise -.-
[22:15] <Viper550> good for like, XFCE
[22:16] <BUGabundo> bbl
[22:29] <mfaroukg> hi I have problem with mouse
[22:30] <mfaroukg> it is aligned  to where I want it to press
[22:50] <BUGabundo> How do I see which nicks are grouped with this?
[22:52] <trism> BUGabundo: /msg nickserv info BUGabundo should do it when it is your nick
[22:53] <BUGabundo> Will try. Thanks