[00:02] <DeathSling> I formated a disk in a quick manner (2M @ ext3) for use in a virtual guest but I'n not entirly sure that was the right thing to do, anyone know any better?
[00:06] <ali1234> quick format is never wrong
[00:07] <ali1234> unless you need a bad block check
[00:07] <ali1234> on a virtual disk, you don't
[00:37] <DeathSling> thanks   :)
[01:05] <Azelphur> Hmm, I just had a guy message me from a reasonably big voice hosting company, after seeing my work in the game server modding community he wants to contract me to write a big IRC control system for all the major voice servers o.O
[01:05] <Azelphur> how much would be sane to charge for that?
[01:11] <hamitron> as much as possible?
[01:11] <hamitron> ;)
[01:11] <Azelphur> haha
[01:13] <hamitron> I'd say you want to be charging between £25 to £150 per hour :/
[01:14] <Azelphur> probably something like £1500 then
[01:14] <hamitron> dunno, I made a rental management program for £700
[01:15] <hamitron> but that was dirt cheap tbh
[01:15] <Azelphur> hamitron: gonna take long, he wants irc/aim/msn/jabber/sms interfaces to mumble/vent/teamspeak
[01:15] <MattJ> Jabber \o/
[01:15] <Azelphur> MattJ: jabber party \o/
[01:16] <hamitron> I've never scripted that sorta stuff :)
[01:16] <Azelphur> hamitron: irc stuff kinda needs to be bomb proof and uber fast, there are plenty of botnets floating about on irc
[01:16] <Azelphur> and when your a business with irc presence, your bound to get hit
[01:16] <hamitron> yeh
[01:18] <hamitron> 2 ways to value it: 1) the time it takes you; 2) how much is it worth to them
[01:18] <hamitron> also consider who else could do the work
[01:18] <hamitron> sorta nasty deciding :/
[01:19] <hamitron> don't wanna lose the work, but don't want to undersell yourself
[01:19]  * Azelphur wants to loose the work, I'm lazy
[01:19] <Azelphur> probably gonna make Seta00 do it :D
[01:19] <hamitron> haha
[01:19] <Azelphur> he's better at snakes than me anyway
[01:20] <hamitron> charge him 10% fee for passing the work his way ;)
[01:20] <Azelphur> lol
[02:09] <webpigeon> JABBER \o/ (i'm a bit late)
[02:09] <MattJ> Very late.
[02:09] <webpigeon> awww :(
[02:09] <MattJ> I can only conclude you're a secret supporter of evil proprietary IM networks
[02:10] <webpigeon> only ones that have xmpp interfaces? :P
[02:10] <MattJ> If they federate they're not so evil :)
[02:11] <webpigeon> it's main interface is over a stateless channel, badly :P
[02:12] <MattJ> Oh, /them/
[02:12] <webpigeon> attually, i'm not even sure it is federated :P
[02:12] <MattJ> They're evil alright :)
[02:13] <webpigeon> I don't think so
[02:13] <webpigeon> (tried to add w@gmail.com as a contact to w@f.c
[02:14] <MattJ> No, won't work
[02:14] <webpigeon> ah :(
[02:14] <MattJ> One day, maybe
[02:15] <webpigeon> I'm not so sure, they're a bit fan of getting data in, not so much with the out
[02:15] <webpigeon> s/bit/big/
[02:15] <MattJ> True
[02:40] <shauno> gmail should federate fine; 'works for me'
[02:44] <shauno> hm, no-one's awake to test it with atm, but it's definately worked the other way around (gmail users can add my jabber address)
[02:51] <shauno> heh, I'm now my own friend.  but it does federate - http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/Screen%20shot%202011-06-06%20at%2002.49.14.png
[04:48] <webpigeon> shauno: facebook doesn't federate :P
[04:49] <webpigeon> gmail does, half my contacts are not google talk addresses :P
[08:28] <DJones> Morning all
[08:29] <DJones> Where did Sunday go?
[08:30] <shauno> bank holiday here.  we get to do-over sunday :)
[08:30] <DJones> lucky you
[08:31] <DJones> I've worked out where sunday went anyway....Minecraft land
[08:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all.
[08:31] <DJones> morning TheOpenSourcerer
[08:39] <MooDoo> hello all
[09:07] <TheAshMan> Morning all
[09:07] <MooDoo> morning
[09:08] <AlanBell> morning
[09:08] <TheAshMan> How do I use a SOCKS proxy on the cli? I've already set one up, just need to use it
[09:09] <AlanBell> TheAshMan: use tsocks
[09:10] <TheAshMan> AlanBell: to make use of the ssh tunnel I've already opened?
[09:10] <AlanBell> yeah, so if you did ssh -D 1080 me@server
[09:11] <AlanBell> then edit /etc/tsocks.conf to tell it the proxy is on localhost
[09:11] <AlanBell> then tsocks thunderbird to launch your app using the proxy
[09:11] <TheAshMan> argh, it's not installed. and I can't install stuff, because our network proxy is screwed
[09:11] <AlanBell> s/thunderbird/thing you want to run/
[09:12] <TheAshMan> (I want to use it on a server)
[09:12] <AlanBell> ok, in that case apt knows about proxies, you can get it to use it directly
[09:12] <TheAshMan> so forwarding all network traffic
[09:12] <TheAshMan> Ahh, cool, thanks
[09:13] <AlanBell> do you have a regular proxy (not sure apt does socks)
[09:14] <TheAshMan> yeah, but that's the one thats screwed :(
[09:14] <TheAshMan> and we have no other
[09:15] <AlanBell> hmm, you seem stuck!
[09:15] <TheAshMan> oh noes!
[09:15] <TheAshMan> Stupid windows sys admin
[09:16] <AlanBell> ok, how about use ssh to tunnel port 80
[09:16] <AlanBell> then get your tsocks installed
[09:16] <TheAshMan> I can try
[09:16] <AlanBell> tsocks adds socks support to any application transparently
[09:17] <TheAshMan> awesome
[09:18] <AlanBell> so you could tunnel port 80 to gb.archive.ubuntu.com and then in the hosts file tell it that gb.archive.ubuntu.com has IP address of 127.0.0.1
[09:18] <TheAshMan> how would I tunnel port 80 to gb.....?
[09:19] <TheAshMan> would I not need a user account on there?
[09:19] <jpds> AlanBell: It doesn't.
[09:20] <AlanBell> TheAshMan: no, don't need an account there
[09:20] <TheAshMan> ahh cool
[09:20] <AlanBell> ssh -L 80:gb.archive.ubuntu.com:80 me@my.server.com
[09:21] <jpds> Hmm.
[09:21] <AlanBell> one of the 80s is the one you want to connect to, the other is where you want that re-served on localhost
[09:22]  * AlanBell wonders if jpds has a better idea
[09:23] <TheAshMan> and then from another ssh session to the same box i edit /etc/hosts to point gb.archive.ubuntu.com to 127.0.0.1? and then try using apt?
[09:24] <AlanBell> yup
[09:24] <TheAshMan> cool bean
[09:24] <TheAshMan> s
[09:25] <marcushaslam> mornin
[09:25] <TheAshMan> I get this error: "W: Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/mercurial-ppa/releases/ubuntu/dists/lucid/main/"binary-amd64/Packages.gz  401  Unauthorized"
[09:26] <AlanBell> TheAshMan: just a ppa, can you ignore that?
[09:26] <AlanBell> W: is a warning
[09:26] <TheAshMan> ah ok
[09:27] <TheAshMan> Another warning: "W: Failed to fetch http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-updates/restricted/source/Sources.gz  404  Not Found" More predominantly a 404...
[09:28] <AlanBell> and one actually on the server you have forwarded
[09:28] <AlanBell> that shouldn't be a 404
[09:28] <TheAshMan> sudo apt-get install tsocks
[09:28] <TheAshMan> whoops
[09:28] <AlanBell> other window
[09:29] <TheAshMan> :D
[09:29] <TheAshMan> get a e: 401
[09:30] <TheAshMan> "Err http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ lucid/universe tsocks 1.8beta5-9.1  401  Unauthorized"
[09:30] <MartijnVdS> 401 = authentication required
[09:30] <MartijnVdS> are you behind a transparent proxy that requires that you log in?
[09:31] <TheAshMan> define "transparent"?
[09:31] <MartijnVdS> Transparent proxies are proxies that you don't set in your browser, but that your network admin has set in the router
[09:31] <TheAshMan> ah, then yes
[09:31] <MartijnVdS> (forwarding all traffic to a specific server which forwards it to the interweb)
[09:31] <TheAshMan> and that's what I'm trying to get around
[09:32] <AlanBell> TheAshMan: ping gb.archive.ubuntu.com, check it is localhost
[09:33] <AlanBell> and you are tunneling *all* the way out right?
[09:33] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[09:33] <MooDoo> morning brobostigon how are you this dull monday
[09:33]  * TheAshMan might have forgotten  to add it to one of the /etc/hosts involved
[09:34] <TheAshMan> although, I now get a 404
[09:34] <brobostigon> MooDoo: not bad, alittle tired, but i have some plans. and you?
[09:34] <TheAshMan> So my first ssh session opened the tunnel using "ssh -L 80:gb.archive.ubuntu.com:80 root@mydomain"
[09:35] <MooDoo> brobostigon: same but ok :D
[09:35] <brobostigon> MooDoo: :)
[09:35] <TheAshMan> then a new ssh session to the same box i point gb.archiv... to 127.0.0.1
[09:38] <AlanBell> TheAshMan: yup, so try telnet localhost 80
[09:39] <AlanBell> then type random stuff and hit return, should get a 501 error page in html including the line <address>Apache/2.2.14 (Ubuntu) Server at archive.ubuntu.com Port 80</address>
[09:39] <TheAshMan> yup :)
[09:39] <AlanBell> cool, the tunnel is working then
[09:39] <AlanBell> now try telnet gb.archive.ubuntu.com 80, should get the same result
[09:41] <TheAshMan> ah, apparently its not the same
[09:41] <AlanBell> fix your hosts file entry then
[09:41] <TheAshMan> looks like the phpinfo() from the server i ssh'd into
[09:42] <TheAshMan> Do I need to change local hosts file or remote?
[09:42] <AlanBell> the one you did the telneting on
[09:42] <TheAshMan> I need to point gb.archive.. to localhost?
[09:43] <AlanBell> yes
[09:43] <TheAshMan> thats already done
[09:43] <AlanBell> ping it
[09:43] <TheAshMan> 64 bytes from localhost (127.0.0.1): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.057 ms
[09:44] <AlanBell> that was the result of ping gb.archive.ubuntu.com ?
[09:44] <TheAshMan> mhm
[09:46] <diplo> Morning all
[09:46] <TheAshMan> morning diplo
[10:00] <scoundrel50a> Hi, I am still trying to get used to Unity, but I really dont like when the window is maximised, all the drop down menu's etc go into the top panel, is there any way I get it back to ho it used to be ?
[10:08] <scoundrel50a> cam amybody help please?
[10:08] <BigRedS> scoundrel50a: I suspect there isn't inside of unity
[10:09] <BigRedS> it seems to be one of those core bits of unity's design
[10:09] <TheAshMan> AlanBell: Thanks for all your help earlier. I think I'm just gonna resort to violence in the direction of the windows network sys admin
[10:09] <BigRedS> so another time where if you want it to behave like vanilla gnome2, you'll have to use gnome 2
[10:09] <scoundrel50a> Oh ok, that is a shame....thank you any way
[10:14] <daubers> scoundrel50a: Have a google around for "removing ubuntu global menu" might give you something
[10:14] <JGJones> Hey...how do I restore the default key-bindings of Unity?
[10:15] <JGJones> as it seems to continue to use what I used on 10.10 which doesn't work on 11.04 too well
[10:15] <JGJones> Unity --reset doesn't seem to do the trick by the way.
[10:15] <scoundrel50a> im, sorry to be thick, but what is super, I am seeing it mentioned in conjunction with pressing say f to search?
[10:15] <JGJones> scoundrel50a, it's the Win-key
[10:15] <BigRedS> scoundrel50a: it's the windows key
[10:16] <daubers> JGJones: You mean the "Fail"-key surely :p
[10:16] <scoundrel50a> daubers and BigRedS: thank you,
[10:16] <JGJones> daubers, the naming scheme is a fail indeed....it's even used on the official Ubuntu keyboard you can buy in the store(!)
[10:16] <daubers> I know :(
[10:17] <BigRedS> I'm pretty pleased that with unity we've finally got a use for that key by default
[10:17] <BigRedS> it's as if for the past ten years Linux has been pretending it's not there. OTOH, it means I now do need to check before setting up win+something key combinations
[10:18] <scoundrel50a> ok, that is strange, I have an Acer Aspire One that came with :Linux Lite, so mby the looks of thigns, has no Super Key, is there another option?
[10:18] <daubers> scoundrel50a: Between the ctrl and alt keys on the bottom left hand row
[10:18] <scoundrel50a> I'm now running 110.4 on it,
[10:18] <JGJones> Aye...although the key-binding's a tad messed up for me as I'm not using the defaults for Unity, and can't figure out how to restore to default for some reason (no I haven't dyed my hair blonde yet)
[10:19] <scoundrel50a> ah, it has a house on it, and just pressed it and got what I needed, thank you.
[10:19] <JGJones> scoundrel50a, I'm jealous of your keyboard.
[10:20] <shauno> I thought not having a windows key was normal  *licks his mac*
[10:22] <JGJones> heh...however I really do not like those Apple keyboards...
[10:22] <scoundrel50a> JGJones: I quite like it, but I am still getting used to the Fn function keys....
[10:24] <scoundrel50a> daubers: removing ubuntu global menu, is thatadding the drop down menus back to the windows itself.....just need to make sure
[10:27] <JGJones> scoundrel50a, just a thought - why not just try using it for a week?
[10:28] <JGJones> Take time to get used to - but the main advantage - just flick the mouse up to the top and you're in the menu - no precision  skills needed ;-)
[10:29] <AlanBell> or flick to the top, and 2 foot to the left for the two monitor people
[10:31] <BigRedS> JGJones: unless you're using focus-follows-mouse and don't habitually full-screen everything...
[10:32] <JGJones> Bah, two monitors is just plainly excessive - I suggest you just chuck out that 2nd monitor. (goes to make space on desk)...say...where do you live?
[10:32] <scoundrel50a> JGJones: hi, I have been trying to use it for quite a while, and just cant get used to it. I started using this when it was the Netbook remix, and I'm still finding it hard to get used to.
[10:33] <scoundrel50a> Does anybody know if the backlight problem has been fixed in the upgrade to 11.04?
[10:33] <BigRedS> which backlight problem?
[10:33] <BigRedS> best bet is to check on the bug, really
[10:33] <BigRedS> if there's a fix, it'll be noted there
[10:34] <scoundrel50a> I t happened on installation, once installed, there is no backlight. Its odd, I have a relatively new Acer Aspire which wont upgrade to 11.04 becasue of the back lihgt, but it works on my crappy Acer Aspire One
[10:36] <scoundrel50a> I havent heard anything back, since the day 11.04 came out a couple of weeks ago.
[10:37] <popey> scoundrel50a: bug number?
[10:38] <wintellect> I had ubuntu installed, then apt-get indtalled kubuntu-desktop. Now I want to keep KDE but remove gnome/unity. How do I do it? if I apt-get remove ubuntu-desktop, it only removes that meta-pkg not all its deps too :\
[10:38] <popey> bug 759194 ?
[10:39] <scoundrel50a> that number does look familiar
[10:39] <BigRedS> wintellect: apt-get uninstall ubuntu-desktop ; apt-get autoremove  ?
[10:39] <BigRedS> or are they not even marked for removal
[10:39] <BigRedS> ?
[10:40] <wintellect> BigRedS: cool, will try that tonight
[10:40] <popey> sudo apt-get autoremove ubuntu-desktop^
[10:40] <wintellect> ok, cool
[10:40] <wintellect> just trying to get to a kubuntu desktop
[10:40] <wintellect> and remove stuff I don't use/want
[10:40] <popey> bug 759104
[10:42] <scoundrel50a> seems to be a dub of bug #693273
[10:43] <scoundrel50a> iot says it has a high priority, how soon could that be fixed then?
[10:44] <popey> no idea.
[10:44] <popey> you could ask in #ubuntu-x
[10:44] <hamitron> less time than the average low priority? ;)
[10:45] <popey> and make sure you mention the bug number
[10:45] <popey> but even though it's high priority, there dont seem to be many people affected
[10:46] <scoundrel50a> ok, I will try there, thanks
[10:55] <BigRedS> what? when did dillo drop out of the repos?
[11:01] <popey> hasn't been around since hardy by the look of it
[11:03] <czajkowski> Aloha
[11:04] <BigRedS> Ah, that was rhetorical but that's a long time for me to have not noticed...
[11:05] <davmor2> morning all
[11:05]  * davmor2 prods czajkowski 
[11:06] <popey> people actually use dillo?
[11:06] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[11:06] <BigRedS> I use it for sites with broken CSS
[11:06] <BigRedS> 'cause ISTR it mostly ignores CSS
[11:07] <scoundrel50a> is there anybody around in #ubuntu-x?
[11:07] <popey> dunno, I am not in there
[11:07] <popey> you might need to wait patiently for a response
[11:07] <popey> some of the people will be US citizens so not awake right now
[11:07] <AlanBell> BigRedS: it is mostly quiet, and the americans are all tucked up in bed still
[11:09] <Pendulum> at least the lucky Americans are :-/
[11:09] <davmor2> MooDoo: Morning Chap ow am ya
[11:09] <AlanBell> morning Pendulum
[11:09] <BigRedS> AlanBell: That was for scoundrel50a ? :)
[11:09] <MooDoo> davmor2: cracking although i might be ill as i've not prodded czajkowski today
[11:09] <AlanBell> BigRedS: it was, silly me
[11:12] <Pendulum> hi AlanBell
[11:15] <czajkowski> davmor2: hi
[11:17] <scoundrel50a> Oh right, didnt realise it was uS based....will leave it open. Hopefully will find an answer. Thanks.
[11:18] <daubers> Urgh. Why are customers a pain in the bum
[11:18] <AlanBell> well it is global, like most team channels
[11:20] <davmor2> czajkowski: hi that sounds so formal coming from you?
[11:20] <MooDoo> davmor2: you too eh ;)
[11:20] <MooDoo> davmor2: she needs a prodding ...
[11:22] <davmor2> MooDoo: I refer my colleague to the aforementioned prods to the Personage know as  czajkowski at 11.05 this very morn
[11:24] <MooDoo> davmor2: i stand corrected sir ;)
[11:30] <gord> wish it wasn't quite so humid :(
[11:31] <davmor2> gord: buy a dehumidifying air con
[11:32] <gord> no, i don't need more things imn
[11:32] <gord> in my house that go "hmmmmmmm"
[11:32] <popey> i want to make my computer quieter
[11:32] <popey> you know when you boot a desktop PC and you hear a fan go really fast then slow down
[11:32] <dogmatic69> popey: get a mac
[11:32] <dogmatic69> :D
[11:32] <popey> thats the CPU usually isnt it?
[11:32] <shauno> I want to find something that's noisier :/
[11:32] <popey> dogmatic69: I have two
[11:33] <popey> i.e. not PSU or case fans
[11:33] <gord> popey, http://www.ebuyer.com/product/177411 - get rid of the case fans, only use this
[11:33] <shauno> when the hdd spins down in this, it's completely silent.  sat in my room last night, and realised that's the first time in years I haven't had a background whirrr
[11:33] <dogmatic69> shauno: you can get my pc... sounds like a fing jet engine warming up
[11:33] <popey> ooo whats that!?
[11:33] <popey> i have SSD in my desktop now so no hard disk noise
[11:33] <popey> its just fans
[11:34] <gord> popey, its water cooling for your cpu, it connects to a radiator on a case fan, but the case fan doesn't need need to go very fast honestly so it never gets loud
[11:34] <shauno> my laptop doesn't seem to do much with the fans unless I'm putting any load on it (or the gpu ..)
[11:34] <dogmatic69> i got a ~150mm fan on the side plus about 4 others
[11:34] <gord> i have one, i have three other fans, *they* are loud, the one for the cpu is never loud
[11:34] <shauno> the moment I do keep the gpu busy tho, you could stick wheels on it and watch it go
[11:34] <dogmatic69> s/150/300
[11:34]  * AlanBell has new business cards
[11:35] <gord> also nice that it keeps my quad core i7 at 30 degrees even when building stuff :)
[11:39] <popey> gord: so the round bit goes on the cpu, the square bit goes on a fan?
[11:40] <gord> popey, yup, you just have to make sure your case fans are the right size for it to fit
[11:40] <popey> i have a fan on the front of the case blowing in
[11:40] <popey> and one on the back blowing out
[11:40] <popey> i guess the one on the back as that's nearest the cpu
[11:41] <popey> gord: also will it fit on my c2d?
[11:43] <gord> popey, its not cpu specific, its socket specific, so LGA1156 LGA 1155 LGA775 LGA1366 AM2 and AM3
[11:43] <gord> if you have one of those, you are good to go
[11:44]  * popey checks
[11:44] <popey> PLGA775
[11:44] <popey> http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=27251
[11:45] <popey> i have that cpu overclocked to 3.2GHz I think
[11:45] <popey> 3.1GHz
[12:02] <livingdaylight> bought a sony vaio c series laptop, but after two weeks it still hasn't arrived. Guy, at the other end of the line gave me attitude and told me to take my business elsewhere; just coz I'm getting impatient. Pretty rude I thought, but will look elsewhere now.
[12:03] <gord> i would guess that works okay popey, not sure what the P means though =\
[12:04] <popey> livingdaylight: who did you buy it from?
[12:04]  * popey expects livingdaylight to say "Laptops Direct"
[12:04] <livingdaylight> Sony on tottenham court road, London
[12:04] <popey> ah
[12:04] <popey> what you gonna run on it?
[12:05] <livingdaylight> he put it down to the fact that there was a bank holiday monday and that they had "construct" as if from scratch?
[12:06] <livingdaylight> popey, I 'd like a dual-boot system; but definitely, (unfortunately) also need it to run windows
[12:06] <JGJones> sigh I really really really hate red tape, having to call a dozen different departments etc just to find out one thing.
[12:07] <livingdaylight> john lewis was selling hp dm4; its a 14" and nice looking and good battery life, but don't know
[12:07] <livingdaylight> popey, I read the negative thread about Laptops Direct, lol
[12:08] <livingdaylight> maybe its just as well, and Sony's customer services dept certainly has much to learn, but it was a really nice spec.
[12:11] <popey> not sure I'd buy sony
[12:11] <popey> well, I know I wouldn't
[12:13] <ali1234> get a thinkpad
[12:14] <livingdaylight> it had a new generation i5 (sandbridge processor) 500 gb hd, 512 dedicated Radeon graphics card, backlit keyboard, 14" (nice and compact) 4gb ram. Only downside was that battery life is only a couple hrs or so...
[12:15] <livingdaylight> ali1234, at £650 it was already more than my budget really... think pads are even more...
[12:16] <livingdaylight> popey, you buy Apples; to me they're even more evil than Sony. Sure they're nice machines, but also twice as expensive than most any other machine
[12:17] <ali1234> at least apple knows how to run a webserver
[12:17]  * imexil finds it strange that with the previous update of Skype for linux it only took canonical one day to push the new version to the repo. Now it's already 4 days since the announcement and no 2.2.035 in sight :(
[12:17] <ali1234> it's in the partner repo isn't it? that means skype does it
[12:18] <shauno> with apple, I basically got old and boring.  I discovered I'm willing to pay for nice now
[12:18] <shauno> like shoes.  if I'm gonna spend inhuman amounts of time using it, false economy to buy cheap shoes
[12:19] <imexil> Really, so canonical is just providing the upload space but skype has to provide it. Didn't know that, thanks ali1234
[12:21] <livingdaylight> shauno, I understand the false-economy principle which is why i was already willing to dig deeper and spend £650, but not all of us can afford £1k + on laptops. Then there also the fact that for the same money one can get more if one is willing to forego the brand which is what one often pays so much for as in the case of Apple
[12:22] <ali1234> if you want to avoid false economy the thinkpad is the only laptop you should even consider
[12:22] <ali1234> everything else is just garbage with a logo on it
[12:22]  * AlanBell had a rubbish thinkpad, and I now have a rather nice Samsung
[12:22] <livingdaylight> lol
[12:23] <BigRedS> mmm, people seem to like Samsungs at the minute
[12:23] <BigRedS> but nobody does nipples as well as Lenovo
[12:23] <livingdaylight> my lenovo R60e, albeit not a "thinkpad" still built by the same people, completely fell apart. Everything has a lifecycle
[12:24] <imexil> so I installed the deb file of Skype manually, and guess what, they've forgotten to update the version string in "about" ;)
[12:24] <ali1234> if it's not a thinkpad it doesn't count
[12:24] <ali1234> it's like buying a dell vostro or whatever they're called
[12:24] <ali1234> the cheap line
[12:24] <BigRedS> yeah, thinkpads are very much not the same as the other lenovos
[12:25] <livingdaylight> so, what about the new lenovo L520? not a thinkpad = no good?
[12:25] <livingdaylight> AlanBell, which one? I read good reviews about the R580 I think
[12:26] <BigRedS> livingdaylight: that's teh general rule I go by :)
[12:26] <AlanBell> R530
[12:31] <livingdaylight> do the thinkpad Edge models count as thinkpads?
[12:32] <livingdaylight> like these? http://goo.gl/jwBh6
[12:33] <ali1234> doesn't look like a thinpad
[12:33] <livingdaylight> thinpad?
[12:34] <livingdaylight> it does say thinkpad on it. but you mean the other traditional looking ones
[12:34] <BigRedS> ah yeah, my mum got one of those
[12:34] <BigRedS> it doesn't feel like a thinkpad
[12:35] <livingdaylight> its a solid keyboard like you'd expect. They look nice too. But chassis gets uber hot like all lenovos I found. What I couldn't understand is why it doesn't come with a mic jack?
[12:36] <shauno> trust customers to call just as I stir the hornet's nest :/
[12:36] <livingdaylight> I like them in 13"
[12:36] <livingdaylight> BigRedS, how is your mom getting on with it?
[12:37] <BigRedS> livingdaylight: she really quite likes it
[12:37] <BigRedS> but that might be more down to there being a picture of an elephant on it than any other reason
[12:37] <BigRedS> the battery's a funny shape, though. Almost precludes using it as a laptop
[12:37] <BigRedS> it sticks down out of the bottom of the laptop at the back, but not for the full width
[12:52] <popey> livingdaylight: it's not about being evil
[12:53] <popey> livingdaylight: it's about the quality of the hardware for me
[12:53] <popey> I've never rated sony computer hardware highly. they make great tellys, or did anyway.
[12:53] <popey> computers, not so much
[12:53] <livingdaylight> popey, I thought you were making the ethical distinction.
[12:54] <popey> i put function over ethics usually
[12:54] <livingdaylight> popey, ok, that's clear...
[12:55] <popey> there's plenty of other things I'd avoid if ethics was the primary driver in my purchasing
[12:55] <popey> like Coke, Nestle and so on.
[12:55] <davmor2> popey: you turned into Jono :)
[12:56]  * popey shudders
[12:56] <livingdaylight> popey, in that regard i have no idea where Sony are on the spectrum from shite to awesome. I appreciate that Apples make good pieces of kit. Unfortunately, with a price tag to match.. Sony's struck me as a good mid-range laptop? not that I have anything to base that on, which is why I'm asking here. I get that thinkpads are also in the top end of the quality spectrum, but again not affordable at this time
[12:56] <davmor2> popey: that was jono reply when asked why he recorded LR on windows/mac
[12:57] <livingdaylight> I got a cheap msi cr620 a few weeks back and had to immediately return that based on the quality.
[13:00] <popey> livingdaylight: i thought sony was expensive too
[13:00] <BigRedS> yeah, expensive *and* badly put together
[13:01] <bigcalm[mob]> Bonjour!
[13:03] <bigcalm[mob]> Looks like I'm not missing anything then
[13:05] <mandrews> Afternoon all!  Has anyone had any experience with the new Nvidia drivers dropping your resolution down to 640x480?  I installed perfectly ok from the Live CD (all was fine there) version 10.04 though when I started for the first time, it did some updates, installed the Nvidia drivers and now my resolution is way out (can only see the top left corder of the screen)
[13:05]  * popey cuddles bigcalm[mob] 
[13:05] <bigcalm[mob]> \o/
[13:06] <bigcalm[mob]> popey: it's good to be missed
[13:06] <popey> :D
[13:07] <bigcalm[mob]> Time to drive again! Toodles pip
[13:18] <livingdaylight> popey, I think they are generally, yes, which is why i never looked at them before. But the new C series came with second gen. i5 processor, dedicated graphics card and couldn't find anyone else that matched them for spec and price
[13:18] <livingdaylight> *so, far.
[13:34] <mandrews> Anyone had the Nvidia issue?
[13:36] <MartijnVdS> I've had lots of nvidia issues
[13:38] <mandrews> with it changing the resolution after installing the new drivers?
[13:38] <mandrews> Mines changed the resolution to some ridiculous setting and I cant seem to change it back
[13:39] <MartijnVdS> mandrews: there aren't many issues I haven't had with nvidia cards. Never using those again.
[13:40] <MartijnVdS> !nvidia
[13:41] <mandrews> thanks for that lubotu3 - il have a read through it
[13:41] <mandrews> im assuming there will be a simple fix
[13:42] <BigRedS> sounds like a brave assumptio
[13:42] <BigRedS> n
[13:50] <ali1234> nvidia has changed the default list of resolutions
[13:50] <ali1234> so for example i have a 1280x1024 monitor connected through a KVM
[13:51] <ali1234> that blocks the DDE signals
[13:51] <ali1234> on older drivers 1280x1024 was one of the defaults
[13:51] <ali1234> now the defaults are all silly HD 16:9 modes
[13:51] <ali1234> so after installing natty that monitor would only go to 1024x768 or 1366x960 or something stupid like that
[13:52] <ali1234> luckily i kept my old xorg.conf
[13:53] <ali1234> it still beats my ati card though, which has graphical corruption over 1/5 of the screen for no reason at all
[13:54]  * MartijnVdS loves his Intel i5 *My preciousss*
[13:54] <MartijnVdS> it Just Works®
[13:54] <ali1234> unless you want to do anything moderately taxing
[13:54] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTUyOQ
[13:54] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's getting better :)
[13:54] <gord> my sandybridge device doesn't really "Just work"
[13:55] <gord> so much corruption, bad drivers
[13:55] <ali1234> um yeah... get back to me when intel graphics can run minecraft at more than 3 fps
[13:55] <gord> mine runs left4dead 2 at 30fps
[13:55] <ali1234> not interested in playing that game
[13:56] <gord> right, but its a good benchmark, minecraft runs fairly well
[13:56] <czajkowski> Orange Club milks are addictive.
[13:56] <czajkowski> that is all
[13:57] <BigRedS> I just had to use unity's menu to open an app. I agree with most of its detractors.
[13:58] <ali1234> unity has started doing this thing where first click on the launcher reveals two firefox windows- 1 browser, 1 download manager- and clicking the browser window does nothing
[13:59] <ali1234> i think there has been a patch added that makes it try to avoid the download manager window
[13:59] <ali1234> because sometimes now, if there's only the dl window open, clicking the launcher does nothing at all
[14:00] <ali1234> which is even worse because now i can't even get to it to close it so i can restart firefox
[14:00] <BigRedS> alt+f2, killall firefox-bin ?
[14:00] <ali1234> i don't have time for that
[14:01] <ali1234> unity is supposed to be easier not harder
[14:01] <BigRedS> elegance? whassat?
[14:01] <mandrews> Hmm - thanks for the heads up's!  I will have a play with it later on when I get home.  Id spent all day on it at the weekend before I finally gave up on it
[14:02] <ali1234> mandrews: if all else fails just write an xorg.conf by hand
[14:02] <BigRedS> But yeah, I know what you mean. I'm fine with it so long as I remember what I need to enter into alt+f2 to get whatever app I want
[14:02] <BigRedS> but I suspect I'm missing the large bulk of it this way :)
[14:02] <ali1234> actually, not all by hand- generate one from nvidia-settings and then tweak it
[14:02] <ali1234> alt-f2 is fail, just press windows
[14:02] <ali1234> the dash is easier because you don't have to know the exact name
[14:03] <ali1234> you can just type "screenshot"<enter> and get what you want
[14:03] <scoundrel50a_> well, that didnt work, its definately a backlight problem, I even tried to install from here http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v3.0-rc1-oneiric/ and that didnt work either.
[14:03] <mandrews> I wouldnt know where to start with writing out a xorg.conf
[14:03] <gord> alt+f2 is for when you know the exact name, you want to launch a command
[14:03] <mandrews> Im struggling changing a screen resolution so that gives you an idea!
[14:03] <ali1234> mandrews: you will, if the DDE is not working for some reason
[14:03] <BigRedS> Ah, alt+f2's just habit. I assumed the win key was the same
[14:04] <ali1234> but you can force it through xorg.conf
[14:04] <BigRedS> oh, cool
[14:04] <BigRedS> it's a searchy thing
[14:04] <BigRedS> handy
[14:04] <ali1234> i wish that the main dash would do the suggestions thing actually
[14:04] <ali1234> "apps available for download" makes sense in context of searching for a program
[14:04] <mandrews> No idea ali1234 - all I know is that after I changed the drivers just after install, its blown the screen up really really large!
[14:04] <ali1234> but it's only available on the applications place, not the main dash
[14:05] <selinuxium> Afternoon all!   o/
[14:05] <ali1234> mandrews: you mean after you installed the restricted driver offered by jockey/hardware manager?
[14:05]  * selinuxium is feeling particularly happy today!  :) 
[14:05]  * davmor2 prods czajkowski that is all
[14:06]  * czajkowski waves hello to davmor2 
[14:06]  * MooDoo follows davmor2 with a secondary prod to czajkowski 
[14:06]  * czajkowski salutes MooDoo 
[14:06] <MooDoo> czajkowski: your being scarey please stop
[14:06] <mandrews> ali1234: Think so.  I did a fresh install from the live CD, it did a load of updates through the update manager (just updates, not an upgrade) and also restricted drivers (seems to have put in Nvidia 173?) and after restart, everything is massive - i.e. looks like its been really zoomed in
[14:07] <MooDoo> davmor2: what you done to her, she's being scarey now
[14:07] <ali1234> yeah that is not unusual
[14:07] <mandrews> hmm - so how do you fix it?
[14:07] <davmor2> calling psychiatrist for czajkowski, psychiatrist for czajkowski
[14:07] <ali1234> run nvidia-settings
[14:07] <ali1234> try to fix it
[14:07] <ali1234> otherwise write xorg.conf manually
[14:08] <mandrews> il have a look.  Never even seen xorg.conf, so wouldnt have a clue how to re-write it
[14:10] <davmor2> MooDoo: I think the whole Dr Who/River Song cloning thing is going on and czajkowski has been replace with this polite young lady, instead of the loutish Lass we all know and love,  /me starts dailing for the doctor I'll get his number in the end don't worry czajkowski we're here for you
[14:11] <MartijnVdS> vworp, vworp?
[14:11] <MooDoo> davmor2: as long as she's not one of those flesh types that melt and leave a gooey mess
[14:30] <selinuxium> Completely off topic, but my band are number one in the Roadrunner unsigned charts! :)
[14:31] <MartijnVdS> selinuxium: link? :)
[14:31] <czajkowski> selinuxium: well done!!!!!!
[14:31] <MartijnVdS> selinuxium: (what kind of music?
[14:31] <selinuxium> http://signmeto.roadrunnerrecords.com/charts
[14:31]  * czajkowski hugs selinuxium 
[14:31] <MartijnVdS> selinuxium: also, cool!
[14:31] <selinuxium> Storm of Ashes - Metal
[14:31] <selinuxium> czajkowski, cheers! :)
[14:32] <selinuxium> thanks all..
[14:32] <selinuxium> Had meeting with Roadrunner this week.. EMI want to see us in August... O_o
[14:32] <selinuxium> All a bit freaky, nice to be at least seen... Nothing may come of it all...
[14:33] <MartijnVdS> selinuxium: I've sent te link to some local metalheads :)
[14:33] <MartijnVdS> selinuxium: (just now)
[14:33] <selinuxium> MartijnVdS, Cheers! :)
[14:35] <MartijnVdS> selinuxium: I'm not really into metal, but I think you should get Strepsils to sponsor you... singer sounds like he needs them ;)
[14:35] <selinuxium> LOL :)
[14:35] <selinuxium> I started playing blues and funk...
[14:36] <MartijnVdS> selinuxium: this is quite different :)
[14:36] <selinuxium> Slight segway with the Red Hot CHilli Peppers and hey I am... :)
[14:37] <selinuxium> s/hey/here/
[15:04] <JGJones> Never really listened to metal - my hearing aids can't make it out at all
[15:06] <ali1234> parcelforce sucks
[15:06] <ali1234> it looks like an elephant sat on my package
[15:07] <hamitron> :/
[15:07] <ali1234> i had to spend an hour bending all the fins on the heatsink i bought back into the right shape, before i could install it
[15:07] <ali1234> it seems to work fine though- 20 degree drop
[15:08] <hamitron> my psu arrived safely :)
[15:08] <ali1234> i recommend this, if your graphics card is too loud: http://www.arctic.ac/en/p/cooling/vga/18/accelero-xtreme-plus.html
[15:09] <ali1234> they're not lying when they say "incredibly quiet"
[15:10] <hamitron> nice
[15:10] <hamitron> I've used they gpu coolers before, and have been impressed
[15:10] <hamitron> my 7800gtx was a single slot card originally, but never kept cool enough to make me happy
[15:11] <ali1234> just don't get it delivered by parcelforce unless you have a banana-shaped graphics card
[15:11] <hamitron> :D
[15:12] <ali1234> well i'm pretty happy with how that worked out
[15:12] <ali1234> i can actually ... hear stuff again
[15:13] <MartijnVdS> like.. the fan.. rattling against the curved heatsink
[15:13] <ali1234> nah, i managed to straighten it out
[15:14] <ali1234> the rattling is from the old crappy fans that i loaded into the case to try to cool it a bit temporarily while waiting
[15:14] <ali1234> even that is an improvement, before, with stock cooler, which had just 1 80mm fan, it sounded like a hairdryer
[15:17] <ali1234> for how much these cards cost you'd think they could make a decent heatsink
[15:20] <JGJones> Is there a tool that allow you to do hashing using the GPU?
[15:20] <JGJones> rather than the CPU?
[15:20] <MartijnVdS> JGJones: OpenCL?
[15:21] <JGJones> specifically for password cracking
[15:21] <MartijnVdS> JGJones: not a tool, but something tools could use if they wanted
[15:21] <MartijnVdS> JGJones: you could write a password cracker using OpenCL
[15:21] <dutchie> i'm sure i saw a thing earlier
[15:21] <JGJones> MartijnVdS, My dog's a better programmer than me so I couldn't write it ;-)
[15:22] <dutchie> JGJones: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/cheap-gpus-are-rendering-strong-passwords-useless/13125 links to http://www.golubev.com/hashgpu.htm
[15:22] <ali1234> yes, that was on slashdot yesterday, there are a few tools actually
[15:22] <dutchie> indeed
[15:24] <ali1234> before and after: http://imagebin.org/157007
[15:24] <kaushal> Hi
[15:24] <JGJones> dutchie, thanks...although it points to a Windows version, there doesn't seem to a linux version via that article
[15:24] <kaushal> I have installed libreoffice 3.4
[15:24] <kaushal> How do i add it in Launcher in 11.04
[15:24] <MartijnVdS> JGJones: ask Azelphur about hashing with GPUs
[15:24] <MartijnVdS> JGJones: he does bitcoin :)
[15:24] <MartijnVdS> JGJones: he might have some pointers for you
[15:27] <ali1234> JGJones: http://sourceforge.net/projects/hashkill/
[15:27] <diplo> w00t
[15:27] <diplo> Just done rm -rf / on a back up server
[15:27] <kaushal> I have installed libreoffice 3.4 in ubuntu 11.04. How do i add it in Launcher
[15:27] <diplo> ooer :(
[15:28] <BigRedS> diplo: modern rms don't let you do that
[15:28] <ali1234> kaushal: you should be able to run it once, then right click on the launcher icon and select "keep in launcher"
[15:28] <dogmatic69> diplo: lol
[15:28] <diplo> heh, CentOS 5.5
[15:28] <diplo> Left something in a script i wrote
[15:28] <BigRedS> you normally need to use find to get that sort of breakage
[15:29] <dogmatic69> diplo: at least you have more space for backups now
[15:29] <JGJones> diplo, that's alright - anyone know not to run as root and you didn't use sudo ;-)
[15:30] <diplo> heh, it only had root on there
[15:30] <diplo> That's all is ever used on that one server
[15:30] <diplo> Internal only
[15:30] <diplo> rm -rf $DUMPWORKDIR/
[15:30] <diplo> I'd deleted the $DUMPWORKDIR variable, but hadn't scrolled down the screen to remove the rm :(
[15:31] <dogmatic69> diplo: and the offending script is gone too
[15:32] <diplo> Well luckily I still have it in cache on my PC where I had it open on SFTP
[15:32] <kaushal> ali1234: is there a easy way to map all officesuite in the launcher
[15:32] <ali1234> don't know
[15:33] <ali1234> there's only about 4 things
[15:33] <ali1234> running each one and adding it is quite easy
[15:33] <ali1234> i don't know an easier way
[15:33] <diplo> But my nagios setup is all gone, well not gone /etc is still there, but no cat or vi to copy them :(
[15:51] <BigRedS> diplo: backups?
[15:52] <BigRedS> Oh, wait, this was teh backing up wasn't it?
[15:52] <diplo> Yup :D
[15:52] <diplo> Funnily enough, I asked do we back up the backup server to tape
[15:52] <diplo> The answer was no
[15:52] <diplo> You would think I would have been more careful after finding that out!
[15:54] <BigRedS> I suspect you will be next time
[15:54] <BigRedS> :)
[15:58] <diplo> heh I hope so
[16:03] <BigRedS> I'm still worried at the fact that I've not yet made a mistake like that
[16:03] <BigRedS> it seems to be a "well, we've all done it" sort of mistake, which implies I've got it coming...
[16:04] <popey> have you won the lottery yet?
[16:04] <MooDoo> i did at the weekend, tenner :(
[16:07] <diplo> BigRedS, first time for me in 12 years
[16:08] <diplo> When I owned up, he said we've all done something like it up here so don't worry
[16:08] <diplo> You WONT do it again
[16:08] <diplo> :P
[16:10] <BigRedS> haha, that's the thing though - when someone makes that sort of mistake you need to have an environment where they want to own up as soon as possible, rather than hide it for fear of whatever retribution
[16:10] <dogmatic69> only way to learn
[16:16] <popey> I managed to mount up the "wrong" filesystem and do a global search and replace on production data once
[16:17] <jpds> popey: http://imgur.com/y7Hm9
[16:17] <JGJones> walked home. Car broken down. sigh...
[16:18] <popey> yes. that.
[16:22] <davmor2> http://imgur.com/gallery/rtGCY something you don't see everyday :D
[16:23] <MooDoo> lol
[16:30] <gord> thats not the usual reaction cats have to being put in a car ;)
[16:32] <popey> i suspect that cat has bigger... uhm... 'balls' than most cats
[16:32] <popey> if any
[16:48] <scoundrel50a> Hi, had an e-mail through #759104 asking me to try blacklisting the 'acer_wmi' kernel module from loading, by adding
[16:48] <scoundrel50a> 'blacklist acer_wmi' to /etc/modprobe.d/local.conf, and reboot using the bad kernel. How do I do that, can it be done through Maverick, or what, because I cant load Natty to add it.
[16:48] <scoundrel50a> Plus, how do I answer a post from launchpad?
[16:49] <scoundrel50a> e-mail, I should say
[16:50] <BigRedS> yeah, it's always teh same file used, whichever kernel you boot from
[16:50] <BigRedS> if you're looking to use a different install, you just need to mount whichever partition the natty install has it's /etc on
[16:51] <popey> scoundrel50a: click the link at the bottom of the mail
[16:51] <popey> bug 759104
[16:51] <popey> or that
[16:51] <scoundrel50a> oh, ok, one thing though, I just remembered, after being advised to chat to somebody on #ubuntu-x I installed something called oneiric is that the same as Natty or somethign different? Even though the same problem exists with oneiric as with natty. If that makes sense
[16:51] <popey> scoundrel50a: do you have 11.04 installed on the box?
[16:52] <popey> you upgraded to oneiric?
[16:52] <scoundrel50a> yes
[16:52] <popey> hah
[16:52] <popey> that was probably unwise
[16:52] <popey> In my opinion
[16:53] <MooDoo> is oneiric even alpha yet?
[16:53] <AlanBell> so now you have 11.10
[16:53] <AlanBell> alpha 1 just came out
[16:53] <scoundrel50a> I was advised to install oneiric with the .deb installation found here.....http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v3.0-rc1-oneiric/ I can uninstall it, as its a .deb installation, is there a .deb installation for Natty?
[16:53] <scoundrel50a> and what is oneiric?
[16:53] <DJones> !oneiric
[16:53] <MooDoo> scoundrel50a: the next version of ubuntu
[16:53] <AlanBell> ah, the oneiric kernel
[16:53] <scoundrel50a> ah
[16:54] <scoundrel50a> it still has the same backlight problem
[16:54] <scoundrel50a> I was told to install it from the person on #ubuntu-x
[16:54] <popey> ah, just the kernel, thats less mad
[16:55] <AlanBell> yeah, that is fine (ish)
[16:55] <popey> so yes, sudo nano /etc/modprobe.d/local.conf
[16:55] <popey> then add the line you've been told to
[16:55] <popey> do what they say and restart to test
[16:55] <scoundrel50a> ok, will give it a go
[16:56] <scoundrel50a> ok, that is odd, that file, should it have something in there, if so, opening it with command shws a blank page
[16:58] <scoundrel50a> just looked ini the directory, and it doesnt have a /local.conf file, so we muct be creating a new one yes?
[17:04] <scoundrel50a> ok, am having a little bit of problem, its opened up a new file in the terminal, but I dont know how to save it, eveerytime I close the terminal, it doesnt save, how do I save fromo in the terminal
[17:05] <Featurefreak> scoundrel50a: your opening a file in the terminal how exactly?
[17:05] <MooDoo> scoundrel50a: what program you useing?   vi?  some notepad?
[17:06] <Featurefreak> anyone remember some american geek podcast was running promo's in uuk and outlaws? looking for a new usbscription to add to my list :)
[17:06] <scoundrel50a> sudo nano /etc/modprobe.d/local.conf if that is right its nano
[17:06] <MooDoo> ctrl x
[17:06] <Featurefreak> scoundrel50a: ok, ctrl+x  then hit Y and enter
[17:06] <MooDoo> and you'll be asked to save
[17:06] <MooDoo> Featurefreak: snap! :)
[17:06] <scoundrel50a> that is what I thought, I'll tyry again
[17:07] <Featurefreak> yay :)
[17:07] <Featurefreak> so this other podcast, had some chick talk all sultry, then she breaks cahracter and says she sounds like a street walker
[17:07] <scoundrel50a> ok, need to reboot and see if that works. When I spoke to the guy earlier on #ubuntu-x he mentioned something like that but he said it could very well break ubuntu naltigether with that
[17:08] <Featurefreak> scoundrel50a: what are you changing in your modules?
[17:08] <scoundrel50a> could that happen?
[17:08] <Featurefreak> sure could, your editing the kernel modules configs
[17:09] <Featurefreak> local.conf doesn't make sense for modprobe.d though
[17:09] <scoundrel50a> Featurefreak: this came via an e-mail from launchpad bug report just now, try blacklisting the 'acer_wmi' kernel module from loading, by adding
[17:09] <scoundrel50a> 'blacklist acer_wmi' to /etc/modprobe.d/local.conf, and reboot using the bad kernel
[17:09] <scoundrel50a> bug #759104
[17:10] <scoundrel50a> but its complicated now, as advised to install oneiric, via .deb installation
[17:10] <scoundrel50a> could it break my ubuntu if I do that?
[17:11] <scoundrel50a> what should I do?
[17:12] <popey> woah there.
[17:12] <popey> You're not being recommended to install oneiric
[17:12] <popey> you were recommended to install a linux kernel which comes from the future (of your system)
[17:12] <popey> built for oneiric.
[17:13] <popey> have you added the blacklist line (without quotes) to /etc/modprobe.d/local.conf
[17:13] <scoundrel50a> popey: didnt say that, I have said already that when I was told me to go to #ubuntu-x this morning, the guy on there, advised me to install oneiric via .deb installation, which I did
[17:13] <scoundrel50a> got the launchpad e-mail just now, with what you just posted, I have added that yes
[17:14] <scoundrel50a> being a .deb installation, I can uninstall it, if necessary, is there a .deb inistallation for Natty?
[17:15] <scoundrel50a> as I have already posted the url was http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v3.0-rc1-oneiric/
[17:15] <popey> I'm trying to make something clear here.
[17:15] <popey> You're not installing oneiric
[17:15] <scoundrel50a> so am I
[17:15] <scoundrel50a> have already done it
[17:15] <popey> You're installing the kernel.
[17:15] <scoundrel50a> ok
[17:15] <popey> no, you haven't
[17:15] <popey> you've installed a kernel
[17:15] <scoundrel50a> now you said I understand
[17:16] <popey> but you dont have 11.04 on this machine?
[17:16] <scoundrel50a> so, with that information, is that going to break my ubuntu adding what launchpad suggested
[17:16] <MartijnVdS> !xy | scoundrel50a
[17:16] <scoundrel50a> ok, now I am really confused
[17:17] <popey> lets just take a step back
[17:17] <popey> do you have 11.04 on that machine?
[17:17] <scoundrel50a> I did have, but uninstalled it
[17:17] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50a: what do you have now then?
[17:18] <popey> Ubuntu 10.10 if my reading of the backscroll is right
[17:18] <scoundrel50a> Maverick, with what popey confirmed to me now is the oneiric kernel
[17:18] <popey> ok
[17:18] <popey> Now, here lies the issue.
[17:19] <popey> You are about to test Ubuntu 10.10 with the kernel from Ubuntu 11.10.
[17:19] <popey> But your bug is about a problem with 11.04.
[17:19] <popey> So. It's possible that you might reboot into the Oneiric (11.10) kernel and everything is fine (with or without the file being edited)
[17:20] <popey> because it could be that there's some other "bit" of 11.04 that you don't have (because you're on 10.10 with an 11.10 kernel)
[17:20] <scoundrel50a> tried to boot into Oneiric, but backlight problem still exists
[17:20] <popey> ah, excellent
[17:20] <popey> is that after you have edited the file?
[17:20] <popey> and saved it
[17:21] <scoundrel50a> not yet, which is why I am asking here, I have edited and saved now, and was about to try, but was worried, and glad I asked, because it cleared up some confusion
[17:21] <popey> well
[17:21] <popey> there is one thing that concerns me
[17:21] <scoundrel50a> should I try, and what will that achieve?
[17:21] <popey> you keep saying 'blacklist acer_wmi'
[17:21] <popey> I am concerned that you added the quote marks to /etc/modprobe.d/local.conf
[17:21] <scoundrel50a> that is what I got from launchpad today
[17:21] <popey> yes, I know
[17:22] <scoundrel50a> n o quote marks
[17:22] <popey> ok, so you have a line that looks like this:-
[17:22] <popey> blacklist acer_wmi
[17:22] <scoundrel50a> yes
[17:22] <popey> ^^^ like that
[17:22] <popey> winner
[17:22] <popey> yes, reboot to the oneiric kernel and see if there is still a backlight issue
[17:22] <popey> no risk at all*
[17:22] <popey>  
[17:22] <popey>  
[17:22] <popey> *Note: may be some risk.
[17:22] <scoundrel50a> ok, thank you
[17:23] <scoundrel50a> be back in a tick, have to reboot, but will sign in on other machine
[17:23] <scoundrel50a> brb
[17:23] <MartijnVdS> Oneiric is full of all kinds of weird bugs these days
[17:24] <MartijnVdS> I had to turn off USB autosuspend on my keyboard.. it was losing half my keystrokes
[17:24] <scoundrel50a_> its booting up now
[17:25] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: in oneiric or natty?
[17:25] <scoundrel50a_> nope that didnt fix it
[17:25] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: o
[17:25] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: natty was fine
[17:25] <popey> scoundrel50a_: you're booting the oneiric kernel?
[17:25] <scoundrel50a_> yes
[17:25] <scoundrel50a_> I just heard the drumsto say it had loaded and lost the backlight
[17:25] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: that's cause it only just hit alpha 1 and is as rough as hob nail boots
[17:26] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: I know :) Still filed a bug though
[17:26] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: I was in a masochistic mood yesterday :P
[17:26] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: for that I blame gnome 3 honest :D
[17:26] <scoundrel50a_> I found out also earlier that I can actually log in, by clicking enter then my password and the music starts for loading the kernel, but still no backlight, and I have to shut down using button
[17:27] <popey> bummer
[17:28] <scoundrel50a_> I posted a kern.log file to somewhere taken from what we were doing earlier
[17:28] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Michael Wood] Debian Unable to mount filesystem - http://www.michaelwood.me.uk/wordpress/2011/06/06/debian-unable-to-mount-filesystem/
[17:28] <scoundrel50a_> one sec,need to reboot othe machine
[17:28] <gord> i wonder if you took apart a laptop monitor, keeping the light diffusers in place, then pointed it at the sun, if it would work okay as a backlight
[17:30] <scoundrel50a_> this is really frustrating, especially since I am running Natty on my Acer Aspire One talking to you
[17:31] <scoundrel50a_> and the other machin e is far more powerful
[17:31] <popey> well, now you can leave a comment that you tested the oneric kernel with that change to your modules under 10.10 and it still didnt work
[17:31] <scoundrel50a_> how do I do that?
[17:32] <scoundrel50a_> I havent been able to post to the bug, as I dont know how to.
[17:33] <popey> scoundrel50a_: there is a link in every mail from launchpad
[17:34] <popey> bug 759104
[17:34] <popey> ^^^^^ that link
[17:35] <scoundrel50a_> never got to the bottom of the page on that link, and seen the comment box, as I never logged in. Sorry :(
[17:37] <AlanBell> or you can reply to the bug mail and it will turn up as a comment
[17:39] <popey> AlanBell: you need to digitally sign your mail don't you?
[17:40] <popey> scoundrel50a_: so... login to launchpad
[17:40] <popey> you have an account
[17:40] <popey> https://launchpad.net/~scoundrel50a I assume thats you
[17:40] <scoundrel50a_> oh, I didnt know that. I just updated the bug, and added a kerel.log from earlier, to see if that might show anything
[17:40] <AlanBell> "Launchpad only accepts email that is GPG signed" - popey is right
[17:40] <scoundrel50a_> ah, I dont have that
[17:42] <popey> scoundrel50a_: how are you subscribed to the bug then?
[17:42] <popey> ah https://launchpad.net/~jakewc2 is you too?
[17:43] <scoundrel50a_> yes
[17:43] <scoundrel50a_> from about n5 years ago
[17:43] <scoundrel50a_> havent used it hardly
[17:44] <scoundrel50a_> sept 2008 was when I joined
[17:49] <popey> well you could reply from either tbh
[17:50] <popey> but makes sense to use the jakewc2 one as thats subscribed to the bug
[17:50] <popey> so wont confuse people
[17:50] <AlanBell> you can merge them
[17:50] <scoundrel50a_> did the kern.log upload right?
[17:50] <scoundrel50a_> it was over 1.5 mbs but i EDITED IT DOWN
[17:51] <scoundrel50a_> sorry for the caps
[17:51] <scoundrel50a_> its this small netbook I am on, hard to type
[17:51] <popey> gord: Terraria... if my kids want to play, I'm going to have to buy a copy for each aren't I?
[17:53] <gord> popey, no, but it would be a pain otherwise. you would have to start a copy on one computer with steam, logout of steam with it running, wait a while, log in on another machine and repeat
[17:55] <ali1234> what's the name of that software that tests for ISP packet shaping?
[17:59] <ali1234> oh, nvm, it's not packet shaping, it's just MASSIVE packet loss (70%) on demon's network
[17:59] <ali1234> going to try router reboot
[18:00] <MartijnVdS> GAAH
[18:00] <MartijnVdS> synchronised calendar apps--
[18:00] <MartijnVdS> *popup*</ubuntu> *ping*</xoom> *pling!*</phone>
[18:03] <popey> hehe
[18:03] <popey> i get that too
[18:03] <popey> phone, two computers, ipad
[19:43] <mandrews> ali1234: Hello again - sorry, I forgot what you said to do before (think it was you) about changing the screen resolution since I updated the nvidia driver and now everything has changed so it looks really large
[19:43] <ali1234> run nvidia-settings
[19:43] <ali1234> try to fix it in there
[19:43] <mandrews> ah - thats the fella.  Was trying nvidia-setup
[19:45] <mandrews> ah - no thats where my problem is.  It gives me the nvidia config system, though its obviously graphical and I cant see it all, only the top left corner of it
[19:45] <mandrews> and looking at it, the max it will go to is 640x480
[19:47] <victorp> popey, hi
[19:56] <mandrews> Hello again - fixed :)
[20:14] <mandrews> Is anyone here good with wi-fi 'dongles' and the quirks you get with them?
[20:16] <davmor2> AlanBell: You old cynic you, who wouldn't want a learning curve in a school,  the teachers it's more work for them and they will have to alter all of their lesson plans of course
[20:22] <daubers> lo
[20:29] <mandrews> Does anyone know why my usb wireless thingy would work first time on the live CD (from cold) but now that ive installed Ubuntu, I have to go into windows first before the wi-fi will work?
[21:14] <AlanBell> video files are rather big, looks like it will be 16 x 1000MB files for an hour of video]
[21:16] <AlanBell> that is just downloading from a miniDV camcorder with dvgrab, I want to crop a bit off the start and end and add a title to the front, anyone know which of PiTiVi or kino or kdenlive or something else would be quickest
[21:16] <AlanBell> and is there a better starting point than dvgrab?
[21:16] <ali1234> no
[21:16] <ali1234> if you want it to be super easy buy adobe premier
[21:17] <AlanBell> I don't want to do anything complicated
[21:17] <ali1234> it should let you edit the video before pulling it off the camera
[21:17] <ali1234> premier is not complicated
[21:18] <ali1234> pretty much all the video editors on linux are over complex or completely dumbed down to the point of being unusable
[21:18] <ali1234> kdenlive being the former and pitivi being the latter
[21:18] <AlanBell> yeah, but I don't want to buy a mac
[21:19] <ali1234> you don't have to
[21:19] <ali1234> adobe hasn't been serious about mac for years
[21:19] <AlanBell> does it run on Ubuntu?
[21:19] <ali1234> apple and adobe now hate each other because of flash
[21:19] <ali1234> it runs in virtualbox on ubuntu?
[21:20] <ali1234> you might have to install some "libraries" from microsoft to make it work
[21:20] <AlanBell> I don't have windows
[21:21] <ali1234> you should use pitivi
[21:21] <ali1234> but you will have to design your captions in gimp or something, maybe inkscape
[21:21] <AlanBell> oh, that bit is fine, will use blender for that
[21:22] <ali1234> lol, i thought you didn't want to do anything complex?
[21:22] <AlanBell> not with the video, that will just be a 10 second rendered clip
[21:22] <ali1234> no alpha blending?
[21:22] <AlanBell> so I just want to tack an arbitary clip on the front of the video, then cut to the video
[21:23] <ali1234> what about audio?
[21:23] <ali1234> use pitivi for this
[21:23] <AlanBell> just want the audio that was recorded with the camera, no fancy stuff
[21:23] <ali1234> for the title i mean?
[21:27] <AlanBell> not sure there will be audio with that
[21:28] <ali1234> pitivi should have everything you need then, except possibly image sequence import
[21:31] <daubers>  AlanBell: This for Oggcamp?
[21:31] <daubers> (stupid wifi)
[21:32] <daubers> Also, do you really need to work in that kind of codec for the final product?
[21:33] <ali1234> you don't want to double encode it
[21:33] <ali1234> well, you'll already be double encoding it
[21:33] <daubers> You're pretty close to prores 422 at that kind of data rate. Which is pretty harsh. Unless you have some really spanky cameras, you'll not really need that good a quality
[21:33] <ali1234> so adding another stage would be even worse
[21:33] <ali1234> DV is 26mbit/s
[21:33] <AlanBell> daubers: yes
[21:33] <ali1234> and it's pretty bad
[21:34] <ali1234> unless you have a lot of lighting
[21:34] <daubers> 3.26MB/s ish
[21:34] <daubers> DV is a pretty pants codec though
[21:34] <ali1234> yes
[21:34] <ali1234> but reencoding it is not going to help
[21:34] <daubers> AlanBell: I can provide you with some storage that will help with the space issue.
[21:35] <AlanBell> daubers: cool, I was going to ask you for it, but that saves me the bother :)
[21:35] <daubers> :)
[21:35] <ali1234> so you're recording talks?
[21:35] <AlanBell> 13,892 MB in total for an hour
[21:35] <daubers> I have a 16TB system sat in my office as a "We need to make this better" system
[21:35] <AlanBell> ali1234: yeah
[21:36] <ali1234> in that case quality is not so much of a concern
[21:36] <ali1234> but
[21:36] <ali1234> you need to edit in the slides
[21:36] <ali1234> because a video of a talk without the slides is extremely annoying
[21:36] <ali1234> just my 2c
[21:36] <daubers> How many talks are running side by side?
[21:36] <AlanBell> the plan is to record talks and have a slick workflow that gets them out, and encoded and up on the web within 24 hours
[21:36] <ali1234> glwt
[21:36] <daubers> AlanBell: Easy peasy
[21:37] <daubers> AlanBell: Longest part will be the encoding queue
[21:37] <daubers> (and the upload queue)
[21:37] <ali1234> if you want to automate it, you can join the clips with ffmpeg
[21:37] <AlanBell> possibly three rooms I think
[21:37] <ali1234> and probably do the encode step at the same time
[21:38] <ali1234> i assume you're going to record direct to disk then?
[21:38] <daubers> So, you work with 2 talks in hand. In the space of one talk you can ingest the last one, in the space of the next you can have it edited and in the compression queue
[21:39] <AlanBell> yeah, something like that, I am working out the timings
[21:39] <AlanBell> could involve a bit of a server farm
[21:39] <daubers> Nah, you just need 3 edit suites and a render machine
[21:39] <AlanBell> mostly crap computers, doesn't take any processing to download DV tape
[21:40] <AlanBell> 3 cameras recording, 3 cameras downloading
[21:40] <ali1234> if you go via tape you'll need 6 cameras
[21:40] <AlanBell> yeah
[21:40] <ali1234> probably more reliable though
[21:40] <AlanBell> then we have an archive of the tapes, no wires to run, no expensive cameras
[21:40] <daubers> You want to be careful with ingest in most non-linears, if you're working on them at the same time as ingesting it can cause the audio to go out of sync
[21:40] <ali1234> "no expensive cameras" what?
[21:40] <ali1234> you'll have 6 of them...
[21:41] <AlanBell> mini-dv cameras are less than £50 on ebay and loads of people just have them kicking about
[21:42] <AlanBell> recording cameras would ideally have mic-in, playback need firewire out
[21:42] <ali1234> do they make dv cameras that don't have firewire out?
[21:42] <AlanBell> probably not
[21:42] <AlanBell> but there are some that don't have mic-in ports
[21:42] <ali1234> or mic in for that matter...
[21:45] <daubers> AlanBell: In all seriousness, I'd use 4 machines and work 2 things in hand. During one talk you ingest, during the next you edit, and so on
[21:45] <daubers> You use the other machine just to render into whatever format you want
[21:45] <daubers> 3 editors should be relativley easy to manage
[21:45] <AlanBell> so just 4 in total for three tracks?
[21:45] <daubers> Yup
[21:46] <ali1234> i would write myself a tool to do it with Qt and ffmpeg, forget video editors- they'll only cause you trouble if you are trying to work fast
[21:46] <AlanBell> ok, I was thinking 6
[21:46] <AlanBell> with editing all I want to do is top and tail it
[21:46] <ali1234> yes that is easy with ffmpeg
[21:46] <daubers> Means you'll be working 2 talk lengths afterwards (maybe) but that's not really an issue
[21:47] <daubers> ali1234: Problem will be with audio sync issues. Firewire ingest from DV has a habit of pushing the audio out of sync
[21:48] <AlanBell> so how do I crop stuff with ffmpeg?
[21:49] <ali1234> using the -s and -tt parameters
[21:50] <ali1234> ffmpeg -f mp3 -i test.mp3 -t 2.61 -vol 768 -ss 10 -y 00000000-0.wav
[21:50] <AlanBell> ok, so play it in totem or something, figure out the number of seconds and pass that to ffmpeg?
[21:50] <ali1234> ^ this takes a 2.61 segment of the mp3 starting from 10 seconds in, writes it to the output wav file
[21:50] <ali1234> (it's -t and -ss)
[21:51] <ali1234> don't use totem, it gives inaccurate timings
[21:51] <ali1234> use mplayer
[21:51] <mandrews> anyone managed to get sky player working in Ubuntu?
[21:52] <mandrews> tried it in firefox and chrome with the moonlight plugin and just get a white screen
[21:52] <ali1234> problem you might run into is seeking might ruin your timings
[21:52] <ali1234> but mplayer has a fast forward that just plays it really fast which can help
[21:53] <AlanBell> yeah, the -ss bit should be easy enough to figure out, the duration might be more of a challenge
[21:53] <ali1234> find the end time with ff and then subtract...
[21:54] <ali1234> with dv files you can join them with cat, according to ffmpeg faq
[21:54] <ali1234> may depend on the type of dv file you have though
[21:54] <daubers> urgh
[21:57] <daubers> You'll also have to be careful of scan modes
[21:58] <daubers> A lot of old DV stuff will be progressive
[21:58] <ali1234> interlace?
[21:58] <daubers> yeah, my DV camera is shocking for it
[21:58] <ali1234> yeah that will be a problem assuming you are going to upload to the interwebs
[21:58] <daubers> had to deinterlace the lot, took _forever_
[22:02] <AlanBell> hmm, 14 GB across wireless network is not going to work
[22:02] <ali1234> certainly not
[22:03] <daubers> AlanBell: Nope. You'll want gigabit cable to all the machines used in the editing kit
[22:03] <AlanBell> sure, that is no problem
[22:03] <AlanBell> just right now I need to use sneakernet
[22:03] <daubers> For tape swapping?
[22:03] <AlanBell> sftp daddy@orlaroom.local just isn't going to help for this stage :)
[22:04] <daubers> heh
[22:04] <AlanBell> she has the firewire card
[22:09] <Neoti01> does anyone here use asterisk ?
[22:14] <ali1234> looking at libmlt now
[22:14] <ali1234> you could probably do something more interesting with this
[22:22] <ali1234> this is cool
[22:22] <ali1234> a video editor that you can control from shell scripts, but it can also play back in real time to show you what you're going to get
[22:23] <ali1234> wow, ok
[22:23] <AlanBell> that does look good
[22:24] <ali1234> so all you need to do with this is "melt titles.dv recording.dv in=x out=y"
[22:24] <ali1234> where x and y are the frame numbers
[22:24] <ali1234> and then figure out how to write it out
[22:26] <ali1234> it looks like this is exactly what you need for quick turnaround
[22:26] <ali1234> you can put in dynamic titles too, and then render the whole thing through ffmpeg, in one step, with a shell script that just takes a few simple params
[22:27] <daubers> Does ffmpeg thread or do opencl stuff these days?
[22:27] <ali1234> no idea
[22:28] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Better Community With Better Technology - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/06/06/better-community-with-better-technology/
[22:28] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Phil Bull] Open Help 2011 - Cincinnati - http://philbull.livejournal.com/60117.html
[22:28] <daubers> 4 core xeon box do for that task?
[22:29] <ali1234> oh fun, no video on the output :(
[22:29] <ali1234> i blame ffmpeg :/
[22:30] <daubers> Might be able to put together an 8 core briefly, but it would be big and noisy...
[22:30] <ali1234> ok, got video with some ffmpeg wrangling. good.
[22:41] <daubers> Well, let me know what hardware you need. I reckon you should be able to do half a dozen compressions on a nice spanky quad core 5620 box. If needed I can probably throw together a dual CPU one of those with a nice big raid on it to help things along
[22:41] <AlanBell> cool
[22:42] <daubers> Will be a 3U server though :)
[22:42] <AlanBell> I now have 13GB of video (an hour of the camera pointing at the chickens) on my laptop
[22:47] <AlanBell> this looks interlaced
[22:51] <daubers> AlanBell: If it's a consumer dv camera, it will be :)
[22:51] <daubers> ffmpeg can do deinterlacing
[22:52] <daubers> does introduce losses
[22:55] <ali1234> ffmpeg refuses to deinterlace the video :(
[22:57] <daubers> ffmpegs deinterlace also isn't very good
[22:57] <daubers> none of them are
[23:00] <AlanBell> ok, so I can cat them together or use dvgrab --size 0 in the first place to get one hugenormous clip
[23:05] <daubers> seriously... why don't you just use a decent non-linear? By the time you've mucked about with mplayer to get the start/end frames to feed to the script and then manually checked the audio sync, you'd have been better of throwing it into an editor
[23:06] <ali1234> non-linear editors are slow and unpredictable at the best of times
[23:07] <ali1234> where the best of times = using proprietary software on windows
[23:07] <AlanBell> looking at openshot now
[23:07] <daubers> ali1234: I've never had any problems
[23:08] <daubers> ali1234: Avid is pretty horrid. I can prolly lay my hands on 4 final cut machines quite quickly
[23:08] <daubers> final cut is not perfect, but nicer to use than avid
[23:08] <daubers> let that give you a DV clip, then feed it to ffmpeg to compress to ogg/xvid/flash/whatever
[23:09] <daubers> Or, you could use smoke and flame, but it's not worth it unless you're doing 2k
[23:09] <daubers> (and you don't want to be doing 2k really
[23:09] <daubers> )
[23:09] <AlanBell> nope! SD PAL at most
[23:09] <AlanBell> 576 or whatever it is
[23:11] <ali1234> ok, i finally got it to deinterlace the clips
[23:11] <daubers> Easy peasy. Take about 2 minutes a talk to top/tail/check audio sync
[23:12] <AlanBell> yeah, I am sure one of the Ubuntu non-linear editors could do that fine
[23:12] <ali1234> i tend to find that importing an hour of video takes longer than that
[23:12] <ali1234> at least in the stuff that's available on linux
[23:12] <daubers> ali1234: Really? I sorted out my entire wedding video (at 2 hours) in about 10 minutes
[23:13] <daubers> And that was a lot of mucking around getting it to output to something useful
[23:13] <ali1234> lol
[23:13] <AlanBell> !info blender
[23:14] <ali1234> i just tried to import a 150mb dv file into ptivi, it just crashed. nice
[23:14] <AlanBell> !info blender oneiric
[23:14] <daubers> ali1234: You're best off using the kde one for that... I found that coped best.
[23:14] <AlanBell> openshot wants blender 2.56 for the fancy titles
[23:15] <ali1234> well that will be a compile-from-svn job
[23:16] <ali1234> i thought you were going to prerender the titles anyway?
[23:16] <AlanBell> yeah, but the option was there, just wanted to take a look at it
[23:16] <daubers> AlanBell: As a test run, should take a video camera or two to the geeknic thing. Do a proper comparison between editing systems using the same footage
[23:17] <AlanBell> importing 13GB clip to openshot took no time at all
[23:17] <daubers> I have licences and kit that runs most of the proprietary stuff for comparison
[23:17] <AlanBell> seems to be a gain issue on the audio though
[23:18]  * daubers wanders off to bed
[23:19] <AlanBell> hmm, maybe not a real issue, think that is pulse audio getting fed up with life
[23:19] <daubers> Give me a shout if you want the big chunky encoder system
[23:19] <AlanBell> will keep you posted, will probably do a call for hardware at some point
[23:31] <AlanBell> really liking openshot for this