[00:00] micahg: It's a good starting point. :) [00:01] well, we always need testing :) [00:01] anyone else? [00:01] Specs say 11.04 needs 4.4 GB of space. Can I still FULL INSTALL it on a 4GB USB drive- I don't need all the apps like Gimp, office, or games. [00:03] * micahg thinks xubuntu will fit on that, but can't be 100% sure [00:03] you can use the alternate installer to install on less than 4G [00:03] * micahg thought there was a bug recently about the space requirements being wrong [00:03] yeah [00:03] ubiquity requires 4.4 [00:04] thanks! [00:04] * micahg cries over the 803MB i386 daily live ISO [00:04] I'm new to linux so I need the system gui apps like synaptic, etcs, I can always ad Libreoffice, gimp later if I need and have space [00:05] pleia2: do you know what is missing from the alternate cd? [00:05] micahg: It'll come down in time, for sure. :) [00:05] DaveF_: nothing, it's a different installer that doesn't have the same hard-coded installation requirements (the 4.4 is actually for ubuntu, not xubuntu) [00:05] astraljava: s/gdm/lightdm in the seed should knock off at least 50 :) [00:05] micahg: Great! [00:06] pleia2: thanks. I tried ubuntu but dont like the unity interface (like so many others) [00:06] it's not for everyone :) [00:07] pleia2: What do you mean? I thought Ubuntu was supposed to be Linux for Everyone! :D [00:07] pleia2: so the normal installer is that much bigger than the alternate installer? [00:08] DaveF_: it's not the installer that's bigger, the installer just checks for 4.4G before moving forward to make sure ubuntu will fit - xubuntu is smaller so it doesn't *need* 4.4G free, but the installer still checks for it [00:08] the bug report is here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/+bug/784020 [00:08] Ubuntu bug 784020 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity doubles stated filesystem size requirements" [Undecided,New] [00:08] Ah! any less apps in the alternate, that you know of? [00:08] no, it's identical [00:09] pleia2: Cool! and thanks! [00:09] welcome :) [00:09] I use LiLi USB Creator to build my USB installs - works great! [00:09] micahg: thanks for chairing! [00:10] Yeah, good job! [00:12] pleia2: thanks, my first time :) [00:12] * micahg just send the meeting notes off to the ML [00:12] thanks to everyone for coming [00:15] Thanks for hosting! Will be back tomorrow to talk about testing, might in fact be able to do daily tests for the time being. [00:22] astraljava: cool, charlie-tca should be back tomorrow and he has more info on testing [00:26] micahg: Yeah, sure I'll talk to him more about it. [00:48] I did a test of 32 alt today (Was my turn) and I know drc also does some testing [01:15] oh, we never got an alpha 1 news post on the site, we should be sure to designate a writer of these things for alpha2 (I can get it posted) [01:15] if we don't think it's too late for alpha1 I can post that too :) [01:51] welcome back GridCube [01:51] thank you [01:51] GridCube: I was in the middle or conducting the meeting when you left [01:51] oh [01:51] sorry [01:51] :/ did i miss something? [01:52] GridCube: it's ok, I posted the noted to the mailing list, not much [01:52] *notes [01:52] oh i don't have a mailing list list [01:52] i mean im not in the mailing list list [01:52] * micahg is digging up a URL [01:53] GridCube: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2011-June/007814.html [01:55] oh :) thanks [01:57] micahg, i wonder, couldnt xubuntu have a first run welcome thing? like a link to an html on the desktop that people can double clic and read really basic stuff about the system? [01:57] * micahg thought that already exists [01:57] like a short faq? [01:57] no its not there, not easily visible tho [01:58] if you happen to install xfce you get the "tips" but is not enabled on xubuntu [01:58] and thats also really anoying and people just usually dissmiss it [02:00] micahg: Do you happen to know how many people are on the list? [02:00] Unit193: no, sorry, I am not a list admin [02:01] GridCube: maybe write an e-mail to the xubuntu-devel list with a proposal? [02:01] Thanks [02:03] mmm ok i will ask charlie next time i see him [03:15] GridCube, I think that'd be better accessible from the menu, like how ubuntu used to do it [03:15] "About Xubuntu" [03:15] right now we've got About Xfce [03:16] and of course these entries could both be hidden in the usual way [03:16] probably, but the "about xfce" just gives licences and not a guide to do simple tasks [03:17] well no one said we had to do it the same way ;) [03:17] like for example saying to people, "How do i enable mp3? you install gstreamer" "how to compiz? see this site" etc [03:18] something like read me [03:18] I don't think that stuff is basic at all, especially the second one [03:18] XD yeah well [03:18] but its an usual question [03:18] for xfce4.8 you have to have a "how do i move panels? you unlock them" XD [03:19] for most OS, the about page outlines the programs installed by default and contains links to further documentation [03:19] mmm yes [03:19] I don't think it's smart to have the about page immediately tell you how to enable compiz or mp3 support [03:19] especially since mp3 is a non-free technology, that shouldn't be the first thing in our about page :) [03:20] just my ideas [03:20] thats probably why i said "a first run welcome thing" stuff like, "you need more help, go to #xubuntu" [03:20] IRC isn't very welcoming to newcomers,, it can be quite confusing for those who've never used it [03:21] well, forums them [03:21] something to tell them they are not alone [03:21] oh, I know what you mean [03:21] its frigthening changing an operative system [03:22] but an OS's about page is usually really basic and outlines the OS's features and programs, maybe a better help system can help with this, but I don't know how this fits into the oneiric development schedule [03:22] and having something right there saying "hey you are welcome" [03:22] mmm yes i see [03:31] i never imagined nothing that complex tho [03:32] just something like, for example, the firefox first run page? [14:44] Good morning [14:45] I think I 'm here. I got about 30 seconds lag today [14:45] micahg: thanks for chairing the meeting. I was setting up Oneiric yesterday [14:45] * charlie-tca forgot about the time change for the meeting, too, but that is not my excuse. [14:46] Good morning charlie-tca, yep you're here :) [14:46] Strange to say good morning... its afternoon over here.... [14:57] Well, Good afternoon, then! [15:00] thanks :-) [15:19] bbl [15:19] charlie-tca: you're welcome, glad all is ok [15:20] not *all* okay [15:20] I can't quite get oneiric to start email or news online [15:20] and my email seems severely broken [15:21] and Users and Groups fails, too [15:21] can't add new users or groups with the GUI [15:21] hmmm, well, the new network manager API breaks backwards compatability, I wouldn't be surprised if there were issues, but Firefox seems to work fine [15:21] but in general, yes, I didn't mean to scare you. [15:21] things are going fine, me. [15:22] things are going fine, for me. [15:22] I installed fresh [15:24] hmmm, and you're using thunderbird or something else? [16:21] claws-mail. Have to try Thunderbird and see how it works in Oneiric [16:36] charlie-tca: ah, claws-mail needs a merge, I can try to take care of that this week if barry doesn't want to do it [16:36] oh, wait, no i can't, over the weekend then :) [16:36] Yeah, it seems kind of broken [16:37] micahg: btw, *if* you decide to take care of claws, what would be really nice would be to activate indicator support [16:37] hello charlie-tca [16:37] GridCube: Hello [16:37] any signs of drc today? [16:37] don't know [16:38] just singed in today [16:38] micahg: i mean bug 715257 [16:38] Launchpad bug 715257 in claws-mail-extra-plugins (Ubuntu) "multi-notification plugin indicator support disabled and broken" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/715257 [16:38] I want to know what is happening to our daily testing? [16:38] No one showed up at the meeting yesterday for testing either. [16:41] I think we are seeing things broken due to gtk3. some of the errors are that applications are not able to use gtk2 and gtk3 at the same time. [16:42] ochosi: that's a separate source :) [16:43] ochosi: I would prefer a bigger font than droid gives us [16:43] or at least a bigger size than we are defaulting to [16:43] or something... The fonts are too small to read, I guess is my complaint. [16:45] or, my eyes are too old to read the font in the size we are using, maybve. [18:11] charlie-tca: Did you get my msg? I wasn't really able to be at the meeting, but I made a comment after [18:35] no, not yet [18:36] I sort of lost my .org address temporarily, and just got it back [18:36] I will go see if there are emails to release to the ML, I guess [18:44] charlie-tca: I was talking about memoserv msg [18:45] Oh, got it [18:45] yes, thanks for checking it [18:45] You were not on and I wasn't sure if I would remember :P [18:45] No problem! Isn't that what I'm supposed to be doing? [18:45] I don't check for those [18:46] it is fine to do that, I will have to check to see if there any [18:46] Otherwise, we mail the xubuntu-devel ML with issues [18:50] I wasn't sure if it would PM you when you got on, or if it would "notice" you [18:52] It doesn't seem to PM me. It was a notice but since all notices are a separate tab, I don't look at them when logging in. It notices all the log in buttetins, which I don't need to see everytime. [19:02] oh, we never do a login sound for Xubuntu [19:02] Hi charlie-tca! I guess I somehow sorta kinda promised I would be helping out with testing. *grin* [19:03] in the last night's meeting, I mean [19:03] Really? [19:03] that's great! [19:03] It was on the list... [19:03] Hehe. Yeah. :) [19:03] We can always use more testers [19:03] I thought as much. [19:03] Are you able to test daily or milestones? [19:04] Well at the moment I should be able to do dailies as well. [19:04] Unit193: really? I guess I have to go update that list, then. [19:05] astraljava: welcome to testing Xubuntu1 [19:05] Thanks! :) [19:05] We have some information at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing [19:05] We would like to run the short test daily, but at the least, we run an install [19:06] Yeah I'm actually using that page as a reference for Ubuntu Studio testing procedure enhancements. [19:06] The main thing at this point in the cycle is install, update, restart, shutdown [19:07] preasure **** [19:07] Ubuntu Studio wants up to date docs, and they want mine up to date to help them update theirs :-) [19:08] Exactly. :D No pressure or anything, but... ;D [19:08] lol [19:08] Nah, I'm here to help as well. [19:08] We can all use help [19:09] Most definitely. I hear you're running under quite a lot of stress. [19:09] If I can ease some of that, would be awesome. [19:09] Help with testing is awesome [19:10] drc was organizing it some for us. We think we can test all the images twice a week or so [19:10] I have several boxen here that I can use, I just first need to figure out which of them can boot from a USB stick, that would help a lot. [19:10] yeah, I guess. I am one of the users with "older" systems. I can't boot from usb [19:10] charlie-tca: will you be around this evening? [19:10] micahg: I can be, yes [19:11] k, maybe we can chat a little bit then [19:11] Okay, I will be here then [19:12] You might have to ping me, but I will stay around [19:18] k, don't worry if you can't, I'll catch you tomorrow [20:15] Crap, I chose alternate install iso. ;) [20:15] charlie-tca: what do you mean? droid works in pretty much any size in my xp [20:15] that's okay, we got both alternate and desktop images [20:16] ochosi: we start with a very tiny font size for droid, it can be increased, but the default is a 10, I think? [20:16] and droid has smaller letters than sans, for example, so 10 droid is about 8 or 9 sans [20:17] I am wondering if we shouldn't be starting at maybe 12 or 14 with it? [20:17] charlie-tca: Actually, you don't. Not at least in the daily cdimage section. [20:17] huh? [20:18] http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/20110606/ [20:19] that's the alternate, desktop is http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/ [20:19] HAHA! [20:19] Oh man. [20:19] I suck. [20:19] We will help you. Before you know it, you will be smart again [20:21] * charlie-tca thinks that sounds wrong, but the intent was very nice :-) [20:21] I sincerely doubt that, but I like the sound of that. :D [20:23] ochosi: making these windows all the way to the screen bottom takes a lot of getting used to, too [20:23] charlie-tca: k, i won't be around much now, let's test this a bit more in the upcoming weeks [20:23] * micahg is reminded of the Star Trek TNG episode "Samaritan Snare" [20:23] okay [20:23] (actually i have a few busy weeks ahead of me) [20:24] charlie-tca: what would be great is something like a screenshot-comparison of the different font-sizes [20:24] that'd make it easy for everyone [20:24] I will make notes then, so we have something to start with [20:24] because DPI settings are also really crucial for that [20:24] I can try to do screenshots [20:24] different DPI settings, different font-size [20:24] Okay [20:24] that's actually a real problem with setting the default.. [20:25] They reverted the DPI back to 96 now, so it should stay the same [20:25] because something in x (not sure what exactly) calculates the "optimum" dpi settings for your resolution [20:25] really? [20:25] otherwise the pixels look blurry [20:25] micahg, did you ping me? [20:25] I will try different things, then [20:25] yeah, thanks [20:25] no problem [20:25] LIke I say, it could be my eyes, too [20:25] or the resolution ;) [20:26] lol [20:26] again with the resolution wrong? [20:30] cody-somerville: yesterday to see if you wanted to run the meeting in charlie-tca's absence [20:30] * charlie-tca hides face again [20:31] charlie-tca: no worries :) [20:32] Leafpad has print capability now. Mousepad is stalled unless jeromeg picks it up. [20:35] charlie-tca: jannis dented that nick might pick it up [20:35] (mousepad) [20:36] Maybe I got the name wrong, I though I saw where jeromeg might. At least if one of them does, it will be good. [21:30] Well, the alternate worked okay. [21:31] Going to try the desktop now. [21:33] 32 or 64bit? [21:34] 32-bit [21:34] Great! Thanks for testing it [21:34] There goes my job... [21:35] Unit193: My humblest apologies. :D [21:35] you ain't getting off that easy [21:35] astraljava: Thanks! [21:35] I'm guessing I followed the short list too closely... [21:36] You get to try again tomorrow, Unit193 [21:37] Unit193: alternate manual install, desktop guided resize tomorrow, please. [21:42] charlie-tca: I did the alt cd last. I do it again? (It was whole disk) [21:44] Do you have things in mind you want me to test? or just mostly follow the short guide? [21:46] mostly follow the guide. Yup, want the test again, but this time instead of whole disk, manual partition [21:47] If you did the whole short test, just install, restart, update, restart, shutdown is good [21:48] Yes, boss! [21:48] Does xubuntu have update-manager, btw.? [21:48] I _could_ look it up, of course... [21:48] Got to know right away if the partitioning or boots or shutdowns fail on these. That will get them fixed quicker [21:49] yes, it does, astraljava [21:49] charlie-tca: Okay, and it should have notified me of updates? [21:49] I forget to use it sometimes, but it is there. We do not insist on you being forced to use it immediately, though [21:49] charlie-tca: Cause I didn't even try since it didn't. [21:49] It should notify, after a few to several minutes [21:49] Right, okay. [21:49] apt-get is fine? [21:50] yup [21:50] If you download updates while installing, it usually triggers update-manager quickly, otherwise, it can take it quite a while to trigger [21:50] I'll report back here or memo you, sound good? [21:51] sounds good, yes [21:51] hm, seems I will need to leave my xchat up, so I get these messages properly. [21:52] Did you see the email about the guy that doesn't want LibreOffice? (I would like it included) [21:53] We won't add libreoffice as a default application, it is too big and slow [21:55] That works for me! [21:55] Damn, maverick's usb-creator crashes while trying to create an install disk from the desktop iso [21:55] try unetbootin, it works better for me [21:57] Okay, will do. [22:11] Unit193: answered that email [22:12] Unit193: I don't what day the image he tried was, I installed Oneiric this weekend and am using it now. LibreOffice is not installed [22:12] charlie-tca: I'm getting that bloody 2,499 will be freed again... [22:12] I didn't think I saw that when I booted it... [22:12] oh, updates? [22:13] What is it removing? [22:19] Hmm... I thought I picked oneiric iso, as I don't even have a natty iso for xubuntu on my system. [22:19] But it said "You are installing the latest, 11.04 of Xubuntu" [22:19] ...or something... [22:28] Hmm... shouldn't update-manager ask for password when you're doing a check, too? Similar to `sudo apt-get update'? [22:32] Well, desktop install for 32-bit seems to work very well too. Nothing to update, so cannot verify that part. [22:44] no, password only asks for password to do the updates themselves, usually [22:44] It might not have the wording updated yet, something for Unit193 to verify tomorrow, though. [22:45] astraljava: how many people you got in studio that will be testing for you? [22:46] oops, got to run [22:50] charlie-tca: I have no idea, so far. [22:50] Just got into this position last night. :) [23:23] So I need to check for "Installing 11.04" [23:24] charlie-tca: When you get back (To answer your question) http://paste.ubuntu.com/620327/ [23:27] Unit193: Yeah, that's on one of the screens when using the desktop installer icon, when the actual installation procedure kicks in. [23:29] astraljava: I'm doing the alt install tomorrow (Depending on what charlie-tca wants, I may have to do both...) [23:34] Unit193: Okay cool, I'll be here to see how it goes for you at some point, my bro will come for an over-night, but I should have some time.