[00:00] <astraljava> micahg: It's a good starting point. :)
[00:01] <micahg> well, we always need testing :)
[00:01] <micahg> anyone else?
[00:01] <DaveF_> Specs say 11.04 needs 4.4 GB of space. Can I still FULL INSTALL it on a 4GB USB drive- I don't need all the apps like Gimp, office, or games.
[00:03]  * micahg thinks xubuntu will fit on that, but can't be 100% sure
[00:03] <pleia2> you can use the alternate installer to install on less than 4G
[00:03]  * micahg thought there was a bug recently about the space requirements being wrong
[00:03] <pleia2> yeah
[00:03] <pleia2> ubiquity requires 4.4
[00:04] <DaveF_> thanks!
[00:04]  * micahg cries over the 803MB i386 daily live ISO
[00:04] <DaveF_> I'm new to linux so I need the system gui apps like synaptic, etcs, I can always ad Libreoffice, gimp later if I need and have space
[00:05] <DaveF_> pleia2: do you know what is missing from the alternate cd?
[00:05] <astraljava> micahg: It'll come down in time, for sure. :)
[00:05] <pleia2> DaveF_: nothing, it's a different installer that doesn't have the same hard-coded installation requirements (the 4.4 is actually for ubuntu, not xubuntu)
[00:05] <micahg> astraljava: s/gdm/lightdm in the seed should knock off at least 50 :)
[00:05] <astraljava> micahg: Great!
[00:06] <DaveF_> pleia2: thanks. I tried ubuntu but dont like the unity interface (like so many others)
[00:06] <pleia2> it's not for everyone :)
[00:07] <astraljava> pleia2: What do you mean? I thought Ubuntu was supposed to be Linux for Everyone! :D
[00:07] <DaveF_> pleia2: so the normal installer is that much bigger than the alternate installer?
[00:08] <pleia2> DaveF_: it's not the installer that's bigger, the installer just checks for 4.4G before moving forward to make sure ubuntu will fit - xubuntu is smaller so it doesn't *need* 4.4G free, but the installer still checks for it
[00:08] <pleia2> the bug report is here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/+bug/784020
[00:08] <DaveF_> Ah! any less apps in the alternate, that you know of?
[00:08] <pleia2> no, it's identical
[00:09] <DaveF_> pleia2: Cool! and thanks!
[00:09] <pleia2> welcome :)
[00:09] <DaveF_> I use LiLi USB Creator to build my USB installs - works great!
[00:09] <pleia2> micahg: thanks for chairing!
[00:10] <astraljava> Yeah, good job!
[00:12] <micahg> pleia2: thanks, my first time :)
[00:12]  * micahg just send the meeting notes off to the ML
[00:12] <micahg> thanks to everyone for coming
[00:15] <astraljava> Thanks for hosting! Will be back tomorrow to talk about testing, might in fact be able to do daily tests for the time being.
[00:22] <micahg> astraljava: cool, charlie-tca should be back tomorrow and he has more info on testing
[00:26] <astraljava> micahg: Yeah, sure I'll talk to him more about it.
[00:48] <Unit193> I did a test of 32 alt today (Was my turn) and I know drc also does some testing
[01:15] <pleia2> oh, we never got an alpha 1 news post on the site, we should be sure to designate a writer of these things for alpha2 (I can get it posted)
[01:15] <pleia2> if we don't think it's too late for alpha1 I can post that too :)
[01:51] <micahg> welcome back GridCube 
[01:51] <GridCube> thank you
[01:51] <micahg> GridCube: I was in the middle or conducting the meeting when you left
[01:51] <GridCube> oh
[01:51] <GridCube> sorry
[01:51] <GridCube> :/ did i miss something?
[01:52] <micahg> GridCube: it's ok, I posted the noted to the mailing list, not much
[01:52] <micahg> *notes
[01:52] <GridCube> oh i don't have a mailing list list 
[01:52] <GridCube> i mean im not in the mailing list list
[01:52]  * micahg is digging up a URL
[01:53] <micahg> GridCube: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2011-June/007814.html
[01:55] <GridCube> oh :) thanks
[01:57] <GridCube> micahg, i wonder, couldnt xubuntu have a first run welcome thing? like a link to an html on the desktop that people can double clic and read really basic stuff about the system? 
[01:57]  * micahg thought that already exists
[01:57] <GridCube> like a short faq?
[01:57] <GridCube> no its not there, not easily visible tho
[01:58] <GridCube> if you happen to install xfce you get the "tips" but is not enabled on xubuntu
[01:58] <GridCube> and thats also really anoying and people just usually dissmiss it
[02:00] <Unit193> micahg: Do you happen to know how many people are on the list?
[02:00] <micahg> Unit193: no, sorry, I am not a list admin
[02:01] <micahg> GridCube: maybe write an e-mail to the xubuntu-devel list with a proposal?
[02:01] <Unit193> Thanks
[02:03] <GridCube> mmm ok i will ask charlie next time i see him
[03:15] <xrdodrx> GridCube, I think that'd be better accessible from the menu, like how ubuntu used to do it
[03:15] <xrdodrx> "About Xubuntu"
[03:15] <xrdodrx> right now we've got About Xfce
[03:16] <xrdodrx> and of course these entries could both be hidden in the usual way
[03:16] <GridCube> probably, but the "about xfce" just gives licences and not a guide to do simple tasks
[03:17] <xrdodrx> well no one said we had to do it the same way ;)
[03:17] <GridCube> like for example saying to people, "How do i enable mp3? you install gstreamer" "how to compiz? see this site" etc
[03:18] <GridCube> something like read me
[03:18] <xrdodrx> I don't think that stuff is basic at all, especially the second one
[03:18] <GridCube> XD yeah well
[03:18] <GridCube> but its an usual question
[03:18] <GridCube> for xfce4.8 you have to have a "how do i move panels? you unlock them" XD
[03:19] <xrdodrx> for most OS, the about page outlines the programs installed by default and contains links to further documentation
[03:19] <GridCube> mmm yes
[03:19] <xrdodrx> I don't think it's smart to have the about page immediately tell you how to enable compiz or mp3 support
[03:19] <xrdodrx> especially since mp3 is a non-free technology, that shouldn't be the first thing in our about page :)
[03:20] <xrdodrx> just my ideas
[03:20] <GridCube> thats probably why i said  "a first run welcome thing" stuff like, "you need more help, go to #xubuntu"
[03:20] <xrdodrx> IRC isn't very welcoming to newcomers,, it can be quite confusing for those who've never used it
[03:21] <GridCube> well, forums them
[03:21] <GridCube> something to tell them they are not alone
[03:21] <xrdodrx> oh, I know what you mean
[03:21] <GridCube> its frigthening changing an operative system
[03:22] <xrdodrx> but an OS's about page is usually really basic and outlines the OS's features and programs, maybe a better help system can help with this, but I don't know how this fits into the oneiric development schedule
[03:22] <GridCube> and having something right there saying "hey you are welcome" 
[03:22] <GridCube> mmm yes i see
[03:31] <GridCube> i never imagined nothing that complex tho
[03:32] <GridCube> just something like, for example, the firefox first run page?
[14:44] <charlie-tca> Good morning
[14:45] <charlie-tca> I think I 'm here. I got about 30 seconds lag today
[14:45] <charlie-tca> micahg: thanks for chairing the meeting. I was setting up Oneiric yesterday
[14:45]  * charlie-tca forgot about the time change for the meeting, too, but that is not my excuse.
[14:46] <DarkEra> Good morning charlie-tca, yep you're here :)
[14:46] <DarkEra> Strange to say good morning... its afternoon over here....
[14:57] <charlie-tca> Well, Good afternoon, then!
[15:00] <DarkEra> thanks :-)
[15:19] <charlie-tca> bbl
[15:19] <micahg> charlie-tca: you're welcome, glad all is ok
[15:20] <charlie-tca> not *all* okay
[15:20] <charlie-tca> I can't quite get oneiric to start email or news online
[15:20] <charlie-tca> and my email seems severely broken
[15:21] <charlie-tca> and Users and Groups fails, too
[15:21] <charlie-tca> can't add new users or groups with the GUI
[15:21] <micahg> hmmm, well, the new network manager API breaks backwards compatability, I wouldn't be surprised if there were issues, but Firefox seems to work fine
[15:21] <charlie-tca> but in general, yes, I didn't mean to scare you. 
[15:21] <charlie-tca> things are going fine, me.
[15:22] <charlie-tca> things are going fine, for me.
[15:22] <charlie-tca> I installed fresh
[15:24] <micahg> hmmm, and you're using thunderbird or something else?
[16:21] <charlie-tca> claws-mail. Have to try Thunderbird and see how it works in Oneiric
[16:36] <micahg> charlie-tca: ah, claws-mail needs a merge, I can try to take care of that this week if barry doesn't want to do it
[16:36] <micahg> oh, wait, no i can't, over the weekend then :)
[16:36] <charlie-tca> Yeah, it seems kind of broken
[16:37] <ochosi> micahg: btw, *if* you decide to take care of claws, what would be really nice would be to activate indicator support
[16:37] <GridCube> hello charlie-tca 
[16:37] <charlie-tca> GridCube: Hello
[16:37] <charlie-tca> any signs of drc today?
[16:37] <GridCube> don't know
[16:38] <GridCube> just singed in today
[16:38] <ochosi> micahg: i mean bug 715257
[16:38] <charlie-tca> I want to know what is happening to our daily testing?
[16:38] <charlie-tca> No one showed up at the meeting yesterday for testing either.
[16:41] <charlie-tca> I think we are seeing things broken due to gtk3. some of the errors are that applications are not able to use gtk2 and gtk3 at the same time.
[16:42] <micahg> ochosi: that's a separate source :)
[16:43] <charlie-tca> ochosi: I would prefer a bigger font than droid gives us
[16:43] <charlie-tca> or at least a bigger size than we are defaulting to
[16:43] <charlie-tca> or something... The fonts are too small to read, I guess is my complaint.
[16:45] <charlie-tca> or, my eyes are too old to read the font in the size we are using, maybve.
[18:11] <Unit193> charlie-tca: Did you get my msg? I wasn't really able to be at the meeting, but I made a comment after
[18:35] <charlie-tca> no, not yet
[18:36] <charlie-tca> I sort of lost my .org address temporarily, and just got it back
[18:36] <charlie-tca> I will go see if there are emails to release to the ML, I guess
[18:44] <Unit193> charlie-tca: I was talking about memoserv msg
[18:45] <charlie-tca> Oh, got it
[18:45] <charlie-tca> yes, thanks for checking it
[18:45] <Unit193> You were not on and I wasn't sure if I would remember :P
[18:45] <Unit193> No problem! Isn't that what I'm supposed to be doing? 
[18:45] <charlie-tca> I don't check for those
[18:46] <charlie-tca> it is fine to do that, I will have to check to see if there any 
[18:46] <charlie-tca> Otherwise, we mail the xubuntu-devel ML with issues
[18:50] <Unit193> I wasn't sure if it would PM you when you got on, or if it would "notice" you
[18:52] <charlie-tca> It doesn't seem to PM me. It was a notice but since all notices are a separate tab, I don't look at them when logging in. It notices all the log in buttetins, which I don't need to see everytime.
[19:02] <charlie-tca> oh, we never do a login sound for Xubuntu
[19:02] <astraljava> Hi charlie-tca! I guess I somehow sorta kinda promised I would be helping out with testing. *grin*
[19:03] <astraljava> in the last night's meeting, I mean
[19:03] <charlie-tca> Really?
[19:03] <charlie-tca> that's great!
[19:03] <Unit193> It was on the list...
[19:03] <astraljava> Hehe. Yeah. :)
[19:03] <charlie-tca> We can always use more testers
[19:03] <astraljava> I thought as much.
[19:03] <charlie-tca> Are you able to test daily or milestones?
[19:04] <astraljava> Well at the moment I should be able to do dailies as well.
[19:04] <charlie-tca> Unit193: really? I guess I have to go update that list, then. 
[19:05] <charlie-tca> astraljava: welcome to testing Xubuntu1
[19:05] <astraljava> Thanks! :)
[19:05] <charlie-tca> We have some information at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing
[19:05] <charlie-tca> We would like to run the short test daily, but at the least, we run an install
[19:06] <astraljava> Yeah I'm actually using that page as a reference for Ubuntu Studio testing procedure enhancements.
[19:06] <charlie-tca> The main thing at this point in the cycle is install, update, restart, shutdown
[19:07] <charlie-tca> preasure ****
[19:07] <charlie-tca> Ubuntu Studio wants up to date docs, and they want mine up to date to help them update theirs :-)
[19:08] <astraljava> Exactly. :D No pressure or anything, but... ;D
[19:08] <charlie-tca> lol
[19:08] <astraljava> Nah, I'm here to help as well.
[19:08] <charlie-tca> We can all use help
[19:09] <astraljava> Most definitely. I hear you're running under quite a lot of stress.
[19:09] <astraljava> If I can ease some of that, would be awesome.
[19:09] <charlie-tca> Help with testing is awesome
[19:10] <charlie-tca> drc was organizing it some for us. We think we can test all the images twice a week or so
[19:10] <astraljava> I have several boxen here that I can use, I just first need to figure out which of them can boot from a USB stick, that would help a lot.
[19:10] <charlie-tca> yeah, I guess. I am one of the users with "older" systems. I can't boot from usb
[19:10] <micahg> charlie-tca: will you be around this evening?
[19:10] <charlie-tca> micahg: I can be, yes
[19:11] <micahg> k, maybe we can chat a little bit then
[19:11] <charlie-tca> Okay, I will be here then
[19:12] <charlie-tca> You might have to ping me, but I will stay around
[19:18] <micahg> k, don't worry if you can't, I'll catch you tomorrow
[20:15] <astraljava> Crap, I chose alternate install iso. ;)
[20:15] <ochosi> charlie-tca: what do you mean? droid works in pretty much any size in my xp
[20:15] <charlie-tca> that's okay, we got both alternate and desktop images
[20:16] <charlie-tca> ochosi: we start with a very tiny font size for droid, it can be increased, but the default is a 10, I think?
[20:16] <charlie-tca> and droid has smaller letters than sans, for example, so 10 droid is about 8 or 9 sans
[20:17] <charlie-tca> I am wondering if we shouldn't be starting at maybe 12 or 14 with it?
[20:17] <astraljava> charlie-tca: Actually, you don't. Not at least in the daily cdimage section.
[20:17] <charlie-tca> huh?
[20:18] <astraljava> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/20110606/
[20:19] <charlie-tca> that's the alternate, desktop is http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/
[20:19] <astraljava> HAHA!
[20:19] <astraljava> Oh man.
[20:19] <astraljava> I suck.
[20:19] <charlie-tca> We will help you. Before you know it, you will be smart again
[20:21]  * charlie-tca thinks that sounds wrong, but the intent was very nice :-)
[20:21] <astraljava> I sincerely doubt that, but I like the sound of that. :D
[20:23] <charlie-tca> ochosi: making these windows all the way to the screen bottom takes a lot of getting used to, too
[20:23] <ochosi> charlie-tca: k, i won't be around much now, let's test this a bit more in the upcoming weeks
[20:23]  * micahg is reminded of the Star Trek TNG episode "Samaritan Snare"
[20:23] <charlie-tca> okay
[20:23] <ochosi> (actually i have a few busy weeks ahead of me)
[20:24] <ochosi> charlie-tca: what would be great is something like a screenshot-comparison of the different font-sizes
[20:24] <ochosi> that'd make it easy for everyone
[20:24] <charlie-tca> I will make notes then, so we have something to start with
[20:24] <ochosi> because DPI settings are also really crucial for that
[20:24] <charlie-tca> I can try to do screenshots
[20:24] <ochosi> different DPI settings, different font-size
[20:24] <charlie-tca> Okay
[20:24] <ochosi> that's actually a real problem with setting the default..
[20:25] <charlie-tca> They reverted the DPI back to 96 now, so it should stay the same
[20:25] <ochosi> because something in x (not sure what exactly) calculates the "optimum" dpi settings for your resolution
[20:25] <charlie-tca> really?
[20:25] <ochosi> otherwise the pixels look blurry
[20:25] <cody-somerville> micahg, did you ping me?
[20:25] <charlie-tca> I will try different things, then
[20:25] <ochosi> yeah, thanks
[20:25] <charlie-tca> no problem
[20:25] <charlie-tca> LIke I say, it could be my eyes, too
[20:25] <ochosi> or the resolution ;)
[20:26] <charlie-tca> lol
[20:26] <charlie-tca> again with the resolution wrong?
[20:30] <micahg> cody-somerville: yesterday to see if you wanted to run the meeting in charlie-tca's absence
[20:30]  * charlie-tca hides face again
[20:31] <micahg> charlie-tca: no worries :)
[20:32] <charlie-tca> Leafpad has print capability now. Mousepad is stalled unless jeromeg picks it up. 
[20:35] <micahg> charlie-tca: jannis dented that nick might pick it up
[20:35] <micahg> (mousepad)
[20:36] <charlie-tca> Maybe I got the name wrong, I though I saw where jeromeg might. At least if one of them does, it will be good.
[21:30] <astraljava> Well, the alternate worked okay.
[21:31] <astraljava> Going to try the desktop now.
[21:33] <charlie-tca> 32 or 64bit?
[21:34] <astraljava> 32-bit
[21:34] <charlie-tca> Great! Thanks for testing it
[21:34] <Unit193> There goes my job...
[21:35] <astraljava> Unit193: My humblest apologies. :D
[21:35] <charlie-tca> you ain't getting off that easy
[21:35] <Unit193> astraljava: Thanks!
[21:35] <Unit193> I'm guessing I followed the short list too closely...
[21:36] <charlie-tca> You get to try again tomorrow, Unit193 
[21:37] <charlie-tca> Unit193: alternate manual install, desktop guided resize tomorrow, please.
[21:42] <Unit193> charlie-tca: I did the alt cd last. I do it again? (It was whole disk)
[21:44] <Unit193> Do you have things in mind you want me to test? or just mostly follow the short guide?
[21:46] <charlie-tca> mostly follow the guide. Yup, want the test again, but this time instead of whole disk, manual partition
[21:47] <charlie-tca> If you did the whole short test, just install, restart, update, restart, shutdown is good
[21:48] <Unit193> Yes, boss!
[21:48] <astraljava> Does xubuntu have update-manager, btw.?
[21:48] <astraljava> I _could_ look it up, of course...
[21:48] <charlie-tca> Got to know right away if the partitioning or boots or shutdowns fail on these. That will get them fixed quicker
[21:49] <charlie-tca> yes, it does, astraljava 
[21:49] <astraljava> charlie-tca: Okay, and it should have notified me of updates?
[21:49] <charlie-tca> I forget to use it sometimes, but it is there. We do not insist on you being forced to use it immediately, though
[21:49] <astraljava> charlie-tca: Cause I didn't even try since it didn't.
[21:49] <charlie-tca> It should notify, after a few to several minutes
[21:49] <astraljava> Right, okay.
[21:49] <Unit193> apt-get is fine?
[21:50] <charlie-tca> yup
[21:50] <charlie-tca> If you download updates while installing, it usually triggers update-manager quickly, otherwise, it can take it quite a while to trigger
[21:50] <Unit193> I'll report back here or memo you, sound good?
[21:51] <charlie-tca> sounds good, yes
[21:51] <charlie-tca> hm, seems I will need to leave my xchat up, so I get these messages properly. 
[21:52] <Unit193> Did you see the email about the guy that doesn't want LibreOffice? (I would like it included)
[21:53] <charlie-tca> We won't add libreoffice as a default application, it is too big and slow
[21:55] <Unit193> That works for me!
[21:55] <astraljava> Damn, maverick's usb-creator crashes while trying to create an install disk from the desktop iso
[21:55] <charlie-tca> try unetbootin, it works better for me
[21:57] <astraljava> Okay, will do.
[22:11] <charlie-tca> Unit193: answered that email
[22:12] <charlie-tca> Unit193: I don't what day the image he tried was, I installed Oneiric this weekend and am using it now. LibreOffice is not installed
[22:12] <Unit193> charlie-tca: I'm getting that bloody 2,499 will be freed again...
[22:12] <Unit193> I didn't think I saw that when I booted it...
[22:12] <charlie-tca> oh, updates?
[22:13] <charlie-tca> What is it removing?
[22:19] <astraljava> Hmm... I thought I picked oneiric iso, as I don't even have a natty iso for xubuntu on my system.
[22:19] <astraljava> But it said "You are installing the latest, 11.04 of Xubuntu"
[22:19] <astraljava> ...or something...
[22:28] <astraljava> Hmm... shouldn't update-manager ask for password when you're doing a check, too? Similar to `sudo apt-get update'?
[22:32] <astraljava> Well, desktop install for 32-bit seems to work very well too. Nothing to update, so cannot verify that part.
[22:44] <charlie-tca> no, password only asks for password to do the updates themselves, usually
[22:44] <charlie-tca> It might not have the wording updated yet, something for Unit193 to verify tomorrow, though.
[22:45] <charlie-tca> astraljava: how many people you got in studio that will be testing for you?
[22:46] <charlie-tca> oops, got to run
[22:50] <astraljava> charlie-tca: I have no idea, so far.
[22:50] <astraljava> Just got into this position last night. :)
[23:23] <Unit193> So I need to check for "Installing 11.04"
[23:24] <Unit193> charlie-tca: When you get back (To answer your question) http://paste.ubuntu.com/620327/
[23:27] <astraljava> Unit193: Yeah, that's on one of the screens when using the desktop installer icon, when the actual installation procedure kicks in.
[23:29] <Unit193> astraljava: I'm doing the alt install tomorrow (Depending on what charlie-tca wants, I may have to do both...)
[23:34] <astraljava> Unit193: Okay cool, I'll be here to see how it goes for you at some point, my bro will come for an over-night, but I should have some time.