| === kinoucho` is now known as kinouchou | ||
| === jibel_ is now known as jibel | ||
| MrChrisDruif | phillw; which theme of Xubuntu was good for accessibility? And what made it so good? | 22:47 |
|---|---|---|
| phillw | MrChrisDruif: you, rafael and charlie-tca would need to chat about that. The kubuntu graphics guy is a really nice guy and it does seem that the two kindred spirits get on really well with each other. | 22:53 |
| MrChrisDruif | phillw; It seems Rafael isn't much on IRC....and not very cooperative...I've had some off mailing-list conversation with him... | 22:54 |
| MrChrisDruif | He works better alone I would say :) | 22:54 |
| phillw | the design work for the kubuntu area is breathtaking. You lads wanting to learn web-site stuff could learn SO much from the kubuntu people. | 22:55 |
| maco | the kubuntu graphics guy = who? | 22:55 |
| maco | roman used to do the login screens to match the wallpaper...is that who you mean? | 22:55 |
| MrChrisDruif | Don't you mean ochosi? | 22:56 |
| maco | i dont know who ochosi is | 22:56 |
| maco | not a name ive seen in #kubuntu-devel at all | 22:57 |
| MrChrisDruif | I think he made blue- and graybird | 22:57 |
| MrChrisDruif | #shimmer is for theming right? | 22:57 |
| maco | i dont know what you're talking about now | 22:57 |
| maco | is that an upstream channel or something? | 22:58 |
| MrChrisDruif | Ow...kubuntu... | 22:58 |
| MrChrisDruif | shimmer is from xubuntu | 22:58 |
| maco | oh ok | 22:58 |
| MrChrisDruif | xD | 22:58 |
| MrChrisDruif | Sorry aboot that | 22:58 |
| MrChrisDruif | phillw; So it was the theme from Kubuntu that is great...or that from Xubuntu? | 22:59 |
| * MrChrisDruif is getting confused :P | 22:59 | |
| phillw | it was, | 22:59 |
| phillw | afaik, it was charlie-tca who said it was one of the kubuntu themes that he had spent a long time on getting sorted. | 23:00 |
| MrChrisDruif | K? | 23:00 |
| charlie-tca | except from an accessibility viewpoint, for poor visual ability, plasma is really hard on the eyes | 23:00 |
| charlie-tca | phillw: xubuntu | 23:00 |
| maco | even with a different plasma theme? | 23:00 |
| charlie-tca | maco: I don't know how to change themes in Kubuntu | 23:01 |
| MrChrisDruif | Aloha charlie-tca :) | 23:01 |
| phillw | charlie-tca: so the theme is via xubuntu? | 23:01 |
| charlie-tca | but that default is really hard to read | 23:01 |
| charlie-tca | phillw: yes | 23:01 |
| charlie-tca | the greybird theme is a good theme for most of us | 23:01 |
| maco | charlie-tca: system settings -> workspace appearance -> desktop theme changes plasma's theme | 23:01 |
| phillw | charlie-tca: soz, I thought you were a kubuntu person! | 23:01 |
| maco | charlie-tca: system settings -> workspace appearnce -> window decorations for title bars | 23:01 |
| MrChrisDruif | As you might have realized...I've taken it upon myself to make an accessibility theme for Lubuntu | 23:01 |
| maco | charlie-tca: system settings -> application appearance for the window chrome | 23:02 |
| charlie-tca | phillw: Xubuntu Project Lead | 23:02 |
| charlie-tca | Kubuntu accessibility tester | 23:02 |
| charlie-tca | Ubuntu accessibility tester | 23:02 |
| MrChrisDruif | charlie-tca; So we're pretty good along the way with our accessibility theme already? | 23:02 |
| phillw | charlie-tca: again my apoligies, I thougt it was kubuntu! | 23:02 |
| charlie-tca | MrChrisDruif: you are? that's a good thing. | 23:03 |
| charlie-tca | yeah, too much transparancies letting the background and fonts blend is not so easy to read | 23:03 |
| phillw | charlie-tca: regardless of the tone of emails flying backwards and forwards. I assure accessibility that | 23:04 |
| phillw | Lubuntu IS commited | 23:04 |
| charlie-tca | I got that :-) | 23:04 |
| MrChrisDruif | Well...if you can take a look at ozone? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Artwork/Incoming/Natty/Ozone Current theme in Natty | 23:04 |
| charlie-tca | the only developer we got around is TheMuso, and he is usually really busy | 23:05 |
| MrChrisDruif | To what are we committed phillw ? Or better put, to what not? :P | 23:05 |
| MrChrisDruif | I don't see TheMuso say much indeed | 23:05 |
| charlie-tca | I keep telling shimmer what blends too much, and ochosi made some serious efforts to get greybird where it should be usable by anyone. | 23:06 |
| TheMuso | I lirk, but I am often busy as charlie-tca said. If people want my attention on IRC, they need to signal me via my nickname, then I respond. | 23:06 |
| phillw | charlie-tca: I have chatted to TheMuso, hence his name being used when JM gave his opinion! - These devs do not pander to the electorate and wrap stuff in cotton wool - they say it as they see it. | 23:06 |
| charlie-tca | MrChrisDruif: I like that | 23:07 |
| MrChrisDruif | charlie-tca; Ozone you mean? | 23:07 |
| charlie-tca | You might have some fine tuning on the white titles on the blue, but that is nice theme | 23:07 |
| charlie-tca | yeah | 23:07 |
| MrChrisDruif | phillw; Hear that? | 23:08 |
| charlie-tca | phillw: unfortunately, so do I, so do I | 23:08 |
| phillw | TheMuso: hopefully, as Lubuntu gets past the next hurdle, we may have a little more dev time to help eachother. | 23:08 |
| TheMuso | phillw: Cool./ | 23:09 |
| MrChrisDruif | So we'd only need to look into the white on blue lettering and we're pretty much a done deal charlie-tca ? | 23:09 |
| maco | charlie-tca: im a developer... | 23:09 |
| phillw | JM is certainly up for it, as are people from SII etc. | 23:09 |
| maco | just not on canonical payroll like TheMuso ;) | 23:09 |
| charlie-tca | phillw: I am sure you noticed I don't back down easily. I think Lubuntu has a niche to fill, and I really want it to succeed. | 23:09 |
| charlie-tca | MrChrisDruif: from what I see there, yes. there will always be some tuning to work out, but for the most part, it looks good. | 23:10 |
| charlie-tca | dam | 23:10 |
| charlie-tca | phillw: I lied | 23:10 |
| charlie-tca | maco is a developer too | 23:11 |
| phillw | charlie-tca: Lubuntu will succeed, as for backing down? That is not required. Imagine if the only choice you had was Win, or N | 23:11 |
| phillw | Mac? | 23:11 |
| charlie-tca | probably some more around here | 23:11 |
| * MrChrisDruif checks it of his todo list | 23:11 | |
| charlie-tca | phillw: I agree | 23:11 |
| phillw | withing the linux family we have hunders, possibly thousands of flavours. | 23:11 |
| maco | im still pretty noob on a11y coding, but ive got the basics of ATK hinting sorted | 23:11 |
| charlie-tca | and I am pretty sure lubuntu doesn't want to integrate orca as it is today, too | 23:11 |
| MrChrisDruif | It's strength and it's weakness at the same time | 23:12 |
| MrChrisDruif | I read something about a C or C++ implementation of Orca? | 23:12 |
| phillw | charlie-tca: from what I understand, it pulls in gnome and all its dependant relatives. This is not something we can do :( | 23:12 |
| charlie-tca | experience with orca in Xubuntu says it ain't lightweight by any means | 23:12 |
| MrChrisDruif | Not only good for Lubuntu /me thinks | 23:12 |
| TheMuso | MrChrisDruif: Not confirmed, parts of orca may be ported to C to improve performance. | 23:12 |
| charlie-tca | yes, someone is working towards something in C, I think | 23:13 |
| TheMuso | Not necessarily, it depends on whether its worth the porting, i.e whether performance is that much better. | 23:13 |
| charlie-tca | phillw: given a choice between orca and none, choose none for this cycle. | 23:13 |
| MrChrisDruif | That's what I read as well TheMuso | 23:13 |
| AlanBell | I am not sure what is slow about orca | 23:13 |
| charlie-tca | AlanBell: I don't see it as slow, but I don't count it as light either. | 23:14 |
| phillw | charlie-tca: okies, as you all know. we are pretty tight on what we can add to Lubuntu without breaking our rules on what it must run on. | 23:14 |
| charlie-tca | yup | 23:15 |
| charlie-tca | I would like to see dasher working in everything, but at least try for Onboard Keyboard, it does help, at least. | 23:15 |
| phillw | AlanBell: it is down to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu#System requirements | 23:15 |
| AlanBell | oh, lubuntu stuff | 23:16 |
| phillw | AlanBell: that is wat we are discussing :) | 23:16 |
| AlanBell | but that is a we won't use gnome thing rather than a performance thing | 23:16 |
| MrChrisDruif | s/ /%20 | 23:16 |
| MrChrisDruif | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu#System%20requirements | 23:17 |
| charlie-tca | AlanBell: more of a "make it work in the 128MB ram" thing, I think | 23:17 |
| phillw | AlanBell: we will use anything that keeps us in that requirements. Remember Apollo 13? -- There is a red line in AMPS to get it to work, we have the same to do. | 23:17 |
| AlanBell | yeah, apollo 13 doesn't fly any more | 23:18 |
| phillw | If we cannot, we cannot - but that is no excuse for not trying. | 23:18 |
| AlanBell | but hey, it sounds like a fun project | 23:19 |
| charlie-tca | I like the idea of a very lightweight ubuntu derivative. | 23:19 |
| charlie-tca | I have sent several people to try it, when they compain about slow systems. | 23:20 |
| AlanBell | I give people more ram | 23:20 |
| phillw | AlanBell: ooh, goodie, I know several thousand people waiting for such gifts :P | 23:20 |
| MrChrisDruif | RAM != faster system ;) | 23:20 |
| AlanBell | anyhow, does lubuntu expose stuff to accercciser? | 23:21 |
| MrChrisDruif | AlanBell; What? | 23:22 |
| AlanBell | MrChrisDruif: lack of ram is almost always the only performance problem | 23:22 |
| phillw | AlanBell: a lot of people with accessibilty issues are in the lower quadrant of income. they cannot afford the 'latest' computer. My interest in this also rolls over to the ubntu-uk thread of school computers. | 23:22 |
| AlanBell | accerciser shows you what information is available over at-spi | 23:23 |
| MrChrisDruif | AlanBell; I meant the second sentence..."does lubuntu expose stuff to accercciser?" | 23:23 |
| AlanBell | phillw: yeah, and the stuff being pushed out by remploy is perfect for gnome, if it had more ram, so I am looking at how to up their spec | 23:23 |
| phillw | Back in 10.04 alpha2 we had a teacher from india come on and say he had managed to keep his little school lab going, on a blade server, of all things, because lubuntu used 30% less resources than the gnome one. Blade servers are not really designed with serving multiple dumb terminals, but that guy did it. | 23:24 |
| phillw | Give them the tools, they will make what they need. | 23:25 |
| phillw | charlie-tca: by the way, once JM has a chance, he is going to load up LightDM and compare resource usage to lxdm. As I said, I do recall some chatter about lightDM, but I'd rather have some one run some stats on them both. | 23:30 |
| charlie-tca | Great! | 23:30 |
| charlie-tca | In xubuntu, it works quite nicely, and doesn't have near the gnome dependencies of GDM | 23:31 |
| charlie-tca | phillw: let JM know it crashes at login right now, but does not seem to block anything. | 23:31 |
| phillw | charlie-tca: as we are virtually gnome free, lxdm is pretty lean :) | 23:31 |
| charlie-tca | I just keep getting a apport crash in oneiric from it | 23:32 |
| phillw | dropping HAL (whatever that is :P ) has taken a little time also | 23:32 |
| charlie-tca | It is really easy to theme too | 23:32 |
| charlie-tca | Yes, HAL had to go away. It was the way most power stuff was managed. dbus has replaced it, but I understand very little other than HAL is "bad" now | 23:33 |
| phillw | AlanBell: I have lost my begging list for second hand computers for F/OSS projects, could you or one of the ubuntu-uk people please resend it to phillw@ubuntu.com | 23:35 |
| charlie-tca | I guess I better go make moinmoin desktop edition work with python greater than 2.6 now. | 23:35 |
| MrChrisDruif | moinmoin desktop edition? So you can WYSIWYG it on your own pc? | 23:38 |
| AlanBell | phillw: do you mean this? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2011-May/029581.html | 23:38 |
| phillw | AlanBell: that's the one, thanks. | 23:44 |
| AlanBell | http://www.ecycleonline.co.uk/choose-your-computer---ubuntu-12-c.asp | 23:45 |
| AlanBell | talking to them about doubling the RAM on the ubuntu models so they are higher spec than the XP ones | 23:46 |
| AlanBell | nothing wrong with the CPU but 256 is rather tight | 23:47 |
| AlanBell | would like to put a gig on all of them tbh | 23:47 |
| AlanBell | I have one of the Dell boxes in the pictures, works fine with a gig of ram running unity, single core 1.6Ghz processor | 23:48 |
| AlanBell | and they are the UKs largest employer of people with disabilities apparently | 23:48 |
| charlie-tca | MrChrisDruif: a short version of moinmoin, uses python 2.6 or less. It does not a full lamp installed | 23:52 |
| phillw | AlanBell: when I was plant chemist (many, many moons ago) we used to make the foam seat tablets for Remploy to turn into office furniture. It really is a small world. I did read, also many years ago that they shut that Remploy factory down :( | 23:55 |
| charlie-tca | MrChrisDruif: let's me plan pages out without using wiki.ubuntu.com for it. I just copy and paste when I build them. | 23:55 |
| charlie-tca | http://moinmo.in/DesktopEdition | 23:55 |
| AlanBell | wiki.ubuntu.com is actually likely to be somewhat fixed soonish | 23:56 |
| charlie-tca | It just saves a lot of frustration doing it on my own computer first | 23:56 |
| AlanBell | yeah, I understand totally | 23:57 |
| * charlie-tca been hearing wiki.ubuntu.com will be fixed soon for a l-o-n-g time | 23:57 | |
| AlanBell | http://wiki-test.ubuntu.com/Accessibility | 23:57 |
| charlie-tca | besides, it keeps me from complaining too loudly to the website people. | 23:57 |
| AlanBell | yeah, I have been pestering them for over a year, but now there is an actual running test instance of 1.9.1 with Xapian turned on and a getuser cache patch | 23:58 |
| charlie-tca | That will help a lot! | 23:58 |
| AlanBell | http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinBugs/GetSubscribersSlow | 23:58 |
| charlie-tca | that is a nice page. Will we get it? | 23:59 |
| AlanBell | http://wiki-test.ubuntu.com/SystemInfo actually running 1.9.2 | 23:59 |
| charlie-tca | I got 1.9.3 running here, but have to use python2.6 for it to work | 23:59 |
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