[02:11] <BigMac> i just installed ubuntu 11.04, but near the end of the installation i got the message "unable to install bootloader" so i chose to proceed without installing the bootloader, and when the install process was finished, i was prompted to reboot, only to find that i got booted into windows, how do i solve this?
[02:12] <highvoltage> BigMac: hi! this channel is for Ubuntu meetings, and you'll probably not find much help here. Try #ubuntu instead.
[02:12] <BigMac> ok, thanks
[16:53] <zul> JAMES PAGE!
[16:53] <MooDoo> huh?
[16:53] <sommer> o//
[17:00] <Daviey> Hello Hello!
[17:00] <nijaba> \o
[17:00] <adam_g> o/
[17:00] <Daviey> zul: It appears to be you chairing.
[17:01] <smb> \o
[17:01] <zul> nope i did it last week i just havent gotten the chance to update it
[17:01] <RoAkSoAx> o/
[17:02] <Daviey> zul: Okay
[17:02] <Daviey> Daviey: It appears to be your chairing.
[17:02] <Daviey> #startmeeting
[17:02] <RoAkSoAx> lol
[17:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 11:02. The chair is Daviey.
[17:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:03] <Daviey> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[17:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[17:03] <Daviey> which were...?
[17:04] <Daviey> None, by the seems of it..
[17:04] <Daviey> Okay.. moving on.
[17:04] <zul> nod
[17:04] <Daviey> [TOPIC] Oneiric Development
[17:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric Development
[17:05] <Daviey> Okay, we are exactly 1 month away from Alpha 2.
[17:05] <Daviey> (scary uh?)
[17:05] <hallyn> yeah it's flying
[17:05] <Daviey> We need to make sure that we have set correct expectations for work we are undertaking for this subscycle.
[17:06] <Daviey> Therefore, if anyone doesn't have 'enough' to keep them busy.. please resolve this...
[17:06] <Daviey> ... and equally, if you have too much and suspect it will not be met by A2... also please resolve it.
[17:06] <Daviey> resolve either means invent the 25th hour in a day, or speak with myself or robbiew
[17:07] <Daviey> So anyone that wants to sign up to more fun stuff... please shout :-)
[17:07]  * zul watches tumbleweeds go by
[17:07] <Daviey> Situation where Debian has a newer version than us for packages we track is getting smaller by the day.
[17:07] <Daviey> \o/
[17:08] <Daviey> Incoming bug tracking still needs some love.
[17:08] <Daviey> rocking.
[17:08] <Daviey> EOF.
[17:08] <NCommander> I have some things for this :-)
[17:08] <Daviey> NCommander: no you don't :)  You have your OWN section :P
[17:09] <NCommander> I do?
[17:09] <NCommander> Excellent
[17:09] <Daviey> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
[17:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
[17:09] <Daviey> Where will we all be?
[17:09] <Daviey> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-o-ensemble-conference-talks <-- is tracking some releavnt events.
[17:09] <Daviey> Anybody else going anywhere fun?
[17:10] <Daviey> Ok... moving on.
[17:10] <Daviey> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[17:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[17:10] <Daviey> hggdh: around?
[17:10] <nijaba> Daviey: on the previous topic, we will be at Structure in a couple weeks
[17:11] <Daviey> nijaba: Oh, interesting.. who will be there?
[17:11] <Daviey> (/me is convinced nijaba just wants to make the minutes harder to create afterwards)
[17:11] <nijaba> Daviey: Benjamin, Juan, Mark Baker, me....
[17:11] <Daviey> okay, perhaps hggdh will join us shortly
[17:11] <Daviey> nijaba: thanks.
[17:11]  * nijaba is just slow to react :P
[17:11] <Daviey> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
[17:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
[17:11] <Daviey> smb: o/
[17:11] <smb> \o
[17:12] <smb> Err well...
[17:12] <smb> So mostly dabbling around some xen patches
[17:12] <Daviey> smb: how is our lovely kernel?
[17:12] <smb> Sometimes they break sometimes they work... :)
[17:12] <Daviey> smb: DomU ?
[17:12] <smb> Up to now yeah
[17:12] <Daviey> How is Dom0 looking?
[17:12] <smb> Still need to go and check dom0 usage
[17:13] <Daviey> okay..
[17:13] <smb> I had the feeling beside of the blkback, all config options already are set right
[17:13] <hggdh> I am in, Daviey
[17:13] <Daviey> smb: jjohansen was collecting some data for a matrix a while ago, did that get completed do you know?
[17:14] <Daviey> hggdh: o/
[17:14] <smb> There is also the iscsitarget thing, where I need to find out how best handle a need of version higher than a deb package
[17:14] <smb> Daviey, He was collecting mostly for normal kernels.
[17:14] <Daviey> smb: bug associated with that?
[17:14] <smb> AFAIK they will work on that in Dublin
[17:14] <Daviey> okay..
[17:15] <Daviey> smb: Do i need to be concerned with iscsitarget?
[17:15] <smb> Daviey, iscsitarget, no. I don't even know whether this is done with a bug
[17:15] <smb> Daviey, Not that much it more a question of procedure
[17:15] <smb> Which I need to bug some people on ubuntu devel
[17:15] <RoAkSoAx> .win 3
[17:15] <RoAkSoAx> argh sry :(
[17:15] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx: boring you? :)
[17:16] <Daviey> smb: Hmm. okay, will hold out for your mail then. :)
[17:16] <smb> yup
[17:16] <Daviey> smoser: Anything for smb ?
[17:16] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: no :) just checking who's making noise :P
[17:16] <smb> RoAkSoAx, In doubt my neigbours
[17:17] <Daviey> smb: Okay, super! Thanks
[17:17] <Daviey> Happy to move on?
[17:17] <smoser> i do not have naything for mr smb
[17:17] <RoAkSoAx> smb: hehe
[17:17] <Daviey> wow, that is a first.
[17:17] <smb> smoser, You are too kind to me master
[17:17] <Daviey> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
[17:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
[17:18] <Daviey> NCommander: The mic is yours.
[17:18] <NCommander> So work on UbuntU Server on ARM is starting in full now that we're over the A1 hump
[17:18] <NCommander> (sorry, laptop is really lagging out ATM)
[17:19] <NCommander> I've started work on implementing netboot images for OMAP3/4 so that we'll be able to test and use ensemble/orchastria on ARM, and shake bugs out of the alternate installer which is not regularly used on ARM images
[17:19] <Daviey> NCommander: this is great, where can work be tracked?
[17:20] <Daviey> NCommander: I assume you are in communication with foundations, specifically cjwatson - regarding d-i?
[17:20] <NCommander> the ubuntu-armel workitem tracker and our blueprints would be the canonical place
[17:20] <NCommander> Daviey: I'll kick a branch up for him to review but I generally do most of the installer work on ARM with ogra
[17:20] <NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
[17:20] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
[17:21] <Daviey> NCommander: yeah.. if you have a unoffical netboot image you want us to smoke, can you provide a url we can grab?
[17:21] <ogra_> Daviey, http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
[17:21] <NCommander> Daviey: official oneiric daily ones should pop up when all is done, I'll drop a link your way when I get that far. A large hurdle dealing with OMAP partitioning was resolved today
[17:21] <NCommander> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dosfstools/+bug/794043
[17:21] <ogra_> bah, NCommander was faster
[17:22] <Daviey> ogra_: I think the WI trackr for -armel needs refreshing :)
[17:22] <Daviey> i almost had a heart attack :P
[17:22] <NCommander> it does sadly :-(
[17:22] <ogra_> Daviey, yeah, NCommander's specs are still missing :P
[17:22] <Daviey> Looks like it's making great progress... anything else you wanted to mention?
[17:22]  * ogra_ ducks 
[17:23] <NCommander> More of a general announcement
[17:23] <Daviey> Go ahead
[17:24] <NCommander> As OMAP3/4 can't handle the alternate installer, we'll be building preinstall images, so for anyone who is interested in testing them, please be advised that they are different installation than the current server ones
[17:24] <Daviey> Interesting.. what is the reasoning for OMAP3/4 not working?
[17:25] <zul> besides being arm ;)
[17:25] <NCommander> Daviey: limitations in the bootloader. It can only boot from SD, and the installer can not override itself
[17:25] <NCommander> pandas are really meant just for dev work for the time being as they're the most common hardware. They're not ideal server hardware by any strech of the imagination
[17:25] <Daviey> NCommander: I think the installer CAN overwrite itself.. if you are using mini.iso equivilant.
[17:25] <NCommander> Daviey: that's the netboot/netinstall
[17:26] <Daviey> yah
[17:26] <Daviey> netinstall NOT netboot.
[17:26] <NCommander> as another aside, PXE support has landed in the OMAP4 u-boot
[17:26] <zul> \o/
[17:27] <NCommander> Its not currently in archive but should land with the next u-boot update
[17:27] <NCommander> (there's a PPA with it, I can find a link if anyone interested)
[17:27] <Daviey> NCommander: I look forward to reading the blog post all about it.
[17:27] <Daviey> The detail of the blog post will really excite me. :)
[17:27] <NCommander> :-)
[17:27] <Daviey> Okay.. happy to move on?
[17:27] <NCommander> Anyway, does anyone have any questions about Ubuntu Server on ARM, or ARM in general?
[17:28] <ogra_> when can we read that blog post ?
[17:28] <Daviey> not from me... really blocked on having a server image to test. :)
[17:28] <NCommander> ogra_: between now and release
[17:28] <NCommander> (ideally, sometime in the next week or so)
[17:28] <ogra_> NCommander, between now and release is nothing my browser takes as URL :P
[17:29] <ogra_> when and where ? :)
[17:29] <Daviey> Okay, moving on.. NCommander, can you ping -server when you have an image we can try :)
[17:29]  * ogra_ didnt know you have a blog
[17:29] <NCommander> Sure, I'll keep you apprised
[17:29] <Daviey> \o/
[17:29] <NCommander> ogra_: I'm on planet. My last blog post was in 2009
[17:29] <NCommander> I might post in 2011
[17:29] <ogra_> wow
[17:29]  * Daviey jumps back
[17:29] <Daviey> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[17:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[17:29] <hggdh> OK
[17:30] <hggdh> two bugs of interest:
[17:30]  * Daviey hopes it is the one he is thinking.
[17:30] <hggdh> bug 791607 <- from A1, Euca does not start
[17:31] <hggdh> and bug 790712 <- kernel OOPS on i386. I am getting this one sporadically, about 1 in 5 runs
[17:31] <Daviey> Okay..The packaging for euca is likely to be changing soon.. So it hasn't recieved much attention until we know how to proceed
[17:32] <Daviey> smb: Seen that bug?
[17:32] <hggdh> Daviey: one other thing, I thought we had NTP as a depends/recommends on current euca, could not see it
[17:32] <smb> Daviey, not before now and then only what ubotu said
[17:32] <Daviey> hggdh: You are correct..
[17:33] <Daviey> smb: have you fixed it yet? :)
[17:33] <hggdh> also, adam_g is getting his hands wet on the UEC test rig ;-)
[17:33] <Daviey> smb: Okay, just wanted to make it known..
[17:33] <smb> wonders take a bit of time
[17:33] <adam_g> hopefully soon. :)
[17:33] <Daviey> smb: On the 8th day.
[17:34] <Daviey> adam_g: exciting.
[17:34]  * smb goes inventing the time machine
[17:34] <Daviey> hggdh / jamespage : Any news on jenkins throwing out failure emails? :)
[17:35] <hggdh> Daviey: we should be looking at it next week, on the QA sprint/rally/roomba/whatchamacallit
[17:35] <hggdh> Daviey: together with a potential relocation of the Jenkins server
[17:35] <Daviey> hggdh: super, i think Mr Page might be joining you for a few days.
[17:36] <Daviey> hggdh: anything else?
[17:36] <hggdh> Daviey: no, I am done
[17:36] <Daviey> hggdh: thank you sir!
[17:37] <hggdh> my unending pleasure, sir
[17:37] <Daviey> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
[17:37] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
[17:37] <RoAkSoAx> sommer was back into action for ISO testing I believe
[17:37] <Daviey> I saw!
[17:37] <sommer> :-) hi ho
[17:37] <RoAkSoAx> sommer: \o/
[17:37] <Daviey> hey sommer..
[17:38] <Daviey> sommer / j1mc: Do we need to re-add the docs section to the meeting?
[17:38] <sommer> Daviey: maybe, I was able to add another section to the server guide before vacation.
[17:39] <Daviey> sommer: I missed that, what did you do?
[17:39] <sommer> I guess I'm a little unclear on the direction the server documentation should go
[17:39] <sommer> Daviey: added a iscsi initiator section
[17:39] <Daviey> useful++
[17:39] <Daviey> sommer: Yeah.. direction is bit of an issue.. Specific ideas?
[17:40] <sommer> Daviey: I kind of like j1mc's idea about looking at the Open Stack docs, and emulating their layout
[17:40] <Daviey> Yeah.. I buy into that... I wanted to hear your views first tho.
[17:41] <sommer> I think that's a good idea, but if I remember correctly the Open Stack docs use DocBook as well.  And I think there is still an issue in translating the DocBook format.
[17:42] <sommer> I'd really like to see the server docs translated as much as possible
[17:42] <Daviey> sommer: Are you happy to drive looking into it with j1mc, and report back next week with issues?
[17:42] <sommer> Daviey: sure thing
[17:43] <Daviey> [ACTION] sommer and j1mc to look at doc presentation.
[17:43] <MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer and j1mc to look at doc presentation.
[17:43] <Daviey> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
[17:43] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
[17:43] <Daviey> Anything from anyone else?
[17:44] <Daviey> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
[17:44] <MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
[17:44] <Daviey> Tuesday, 14th June 2011 16:00 UTC
[17:44] <Daviey> #endmeeting
[17:44] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:44.
[17:44] <Daviey> Thanks all!
[17:44] <Daviey> o/
[17:44] <nijaba> bye
[17:44] <nijaba> thanks Daviey
[17:44] <sommer> thank you :-)
[17:45] <NCommander> Thanks
[17:47] <j1mc> Daviey: I met anne gentle a few days ago, and we went through some of how to build things out in their layout. i should have a test build available within the next few days.
[17:48] <Daviey> j1mc: *rocking*
[17:59] <ppisati> o/
[17:59] <cking> \o
[17:59] <sforshee> o/
[18:00] <herton> \o
[18:00] <bjf> #startmeeting
[18:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is bjf.
[18:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:00] <bjf> ##
[18:00] <bjf> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
[18:00] <bjf> ##
[18:00] <bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
[18:00] <bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
[18:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
[18:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
[18:00] <bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
[18:00] <bjf> #
[18:00] <bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
[18:00] <bjf> #       'o/' indicates you have something you'd like to add (wait until you are recognized)
[18:00] <bjf> #
[18:00] <bjf> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
[18:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Status (ppisati)
[18:00] <ppisati> Kernel news/SRU: mainly CVEs for imx51 and omap4, a small config change to avoid a kernel panic on imx51, and another config change to get lxc on omap4.
[18:01] <ppisati> New 4.6 cross toolchain: lp791552 ("No USB support on beagle/beagleXM") seems it has uncovered a problem with the new 4.6 toolchain, reproduced the issue with a linaro kernel and forwarded to linaro mailing list.
[18:01] <ppisati> ..
[18:01] <bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
[18:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
[18:01] <ogasawara> == Release Metrics ==
[18:01] <ogasawara> [LINK] http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kt-meeting.txt
[18:01] <ogasawara> [18:01] <ogasawara>  * 22 linux kernel bugs (up 2)
[18:01] <ogasawara> [18:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kt-meeting.txt
[18:01] <ogasawara>  * 1 linux kernel bugs (up 1)
[18:01] <ogasawara> [18:02] <ogasawara>  * 0 linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
[18:02] <ogasawara> [18:02] <ogasawara>  * 26 linux kernel bugs (down 1)
[18:02] <ogasawara> [18:02] <ogasawara>  * 3 linux kernel bugs (down 2)
[18:02] <ogasawara> [18:02] <ogasawara>  * 8 linux kernel bugs (down 9)
[18:02] <ogasawara> [18:02] <ogasawara>  * 0 linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
[18:02] <ogasawara> == Incoming Bugs ==
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 15 oneiric bugs (up 3)
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 1254 natty bugs (up 35)
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 1126 maverick bugs (no change 0)
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 1034 lucid bugs (up 5)
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 38 hardy bugs (no change 0)
[18:02] <ogasawara> == Regressions ==
[18:02] <ogasawara> [18:02] <ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 2 natty bugs (no change 0)
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 41 maverick bugs (down 1)
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 75 lucid bugs (no change 0)
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
[18:02] <ogasawara> [18:02] <ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 456 natty bugs (no change 0)
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 247 maverick bugs (up 3)
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 224 lucid bugs (up 2)
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 2 hardy bugs (up 2)
[18:03] <ogasawara> [18:03] <ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
[18:03] <ogasawara>  * 1 natty bugs (no change 0)
[18:03] <ogasawara>  * 2 maverick bugs (no change 0)
[18:03] <ogasawara>  * 0 lucid bugs (no change 0)
[18:03] <ogasawara> ..
[18:03] <ogasawara> note, I've checked in the script which generates the above into kteam-tools
[18:03] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Oneiric Delta Review (ogasawara)
[18:03] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review
[18:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Oneiric Delta Review (ogasawara)
[18:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review
[18:03] <ogasawara> apw, jjohansen, lag, manjo, ralveti, rtg: you have work items to review your set of Ubuntu patches which I've postponed to Alpha-2 for you.  Please take a moment to review when you have a chance. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Specs/KernelOneiricUbuntuDeltaReview for your specific set of patches.
[18:03] <ogasawara> ..
[18:04] <apw> ogasawara, thanks
[18:04] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Oneiric Server Requirements (smb)
[18:04] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-server-requirements
[18:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Oneiric Server Requirements (smb)
[18:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-server-requirements
[18:04] <smb> If jj has not started, there is no change (from not started) since last week. (which was effectively 3 days)
[18:04] <smb> ..
[18:05] <bjf> is there a reason to keep this on the agenda? there's been no activity since UDS
[18:05] <smb> bjf, yes, I hope there will be soon
[18:05] <bjf> [TOPIC] Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
[18:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
[18:05] <ogasawara> We've almost resolved all the issues from the v3.0 fallout.  We're just wrestling with module-init-tools to get depmod sorted out.  We've rebased to v3.0-rc2 and pushed to master-next.  With v3.0-rc2, there's an issue on boot (black screen of death) when the i915 driver is loaded.  This can be worked around using i915.modeset=0 at the moment.  There's also reported boot issues on some system's with atom processors on at le
[18:05] <ogasawara> ast v3.0-rc1.  So, I'm a bit hesitant to upload at the moment knowing we'll break some common hardware use cases.
[18:05] <ogasawara> ..
[18:06] <apw> ogasawara, ack, module init tools are very very nearly there, last reviews going on now
[18:06] <bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Stable Kernel Team (bjf)
[18:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Stable Kernel Team (bjf)
[18:06] <bjf> .
[18:06] <bjf> Hardy - no bugs needing verification, moving right into QA.
[18:06] <bjf> .
[18:06] <bjf> Lucid and Maverick - Dealing with USB regressions. New kernels are being packaged and will be uploaded today.
[18:06] <bjf> .
[18:06] <bjf> Natty - A possible regression was reported, herton is investigating.
[18:06] <bjf> ..
[18:07] <bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (bjf)
[18:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (bjf)
[18:07] <bjf> || Package                                    || Upd/Sec              || Proposed             ||  TiP || Verified ||
[18:07] <bjf> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
[18:07] <bjf> || hardy    linux                             || 2.6.24-29.89         || 2.6.24-29.90         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:07] <bjf> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
[18:07] <bjf> || lucid    linux-ec2                         || 2.6.32-316.31        || 2.6.32-317.33        ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:07] <bjf> || ---      linux-ports-meta                  || 2.6.32.32.24         || 2.6.32.33.25         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:07] <bjf> || ---      linux-meta-lts-backport-maverick  || 2.6.35.25.36         || 2.6.35.28.37         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:07] <bjf> || ---      linux-lts-backport-maverick       || 2.6.35-25.44~lucid1  || 2.6.35-28.50~lucid1  ||   13 ||       13 ||
[18:07] <bjf> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.32    || 2.6.32-32.32         || 2.6.32-33.33         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:07] <bjf> || ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.34.7               || 1.34.10              ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:07] <bjf> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.32-32.62         || 2.6.32-33.65         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:07] <bjf> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.32.32.38         || 2.6.32.33.39         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:08] <bjf> || ---      linux-meta-ec2                    || 2.6.32.316.17        || 2.6.32.317.18        ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:08] <bjf> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
[18:08] <bjf> || maverick linux-ports-meta                  || 2.6.35.28.21         || 2.6.35.30.23         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:08] <bjf> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.35    || 2.6.35-28.20         || 2.6.35-30.22         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:08] <bjf> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.35.28.36         || 2.6.35.30.38         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:08] <bjf> || ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.38.6               || 1.38.8               ||    1 ||        0 ||
[18:08] <bjf> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.35-28.50         || 2.6.35-30.53         ||   11 ||        9 ||
[18:08] <bjf> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
[18:08] <bjf> || natty    linux-ti-omap4                    ||                      || 2.6.38-1209.13       ||   10 ||       10 ||
[18:08] <bjf> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.38    ||                      || 2.6.38-10.4          ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:08] <bjf> || ---      linux-meta-ti-omap4               ||                      || 2.6.38.1209.7        ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:08] <bjf> || ---      linux-meta                        ||                      || 2.6.38.10.24         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:08] <bjf> || ---      linux                             ||                      || 2.6.38-10.44         ||   15 ||       11 ||
[18:08] <bjf> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
[18:08] <bjf> ..
[18:09] <bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
[18:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
[18:10] <bjf> first item is what to do with the Oneiric Bug Handling blueprint
[18:10] <ogasawara> The majority of remaining work items center around our bug tooling and are not release critical.  IMO we don't really want/need this to be on the agenda each week.  Thoughts?
[18:10]  * apw agrees
[18:10] <bjf> agree
[18:10] <apw> we are going to be doing what we can using tooling and the rest add hock
[18:10] <apw> ..
[18:11] <bjf> i'll look over the blueprint and see where i can help out
[18:11] <bjf> ..
[18:11] <bjf> anything else?
[18:11] <bjf> thanks everyone
[18:11] <bjf> #endmeeting
[18:11] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:11.
[18:11] <smb> thanks bjf /me runs
[19:56] <MichealH> Meeting in ~5 mins, right?
[19:57] <simosx> MichealH: which meeting are you looking for?
[19:57] <czajkowski> MichealH: nope 9pm
[19:58] <MichealH> czajkowski: The Membership one is at 9PM BST
[19:58] <MichealH> ?
[19:58] <czajkowski> MichealH: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=7&month=6&year=2011&hour=20&min=0&sec=0&p1=0
[19:58] <czajkowski> MichealH: as per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
[19:58] <MichealH> Oh heh, Wiki does it in UTC, My mistake...
[19:58] <simosx> MichealH: it's in an hour.
[20:31] <akshatj> MichealH, you are applying again
[20:31] <akshatj> ?
[20:35] <Daniel0108> hi akshatj
[20:35] <akshatj> hi Daniel0108
[20:35] <MichealH> akshatj: Yup... I beleive everything is in ship shape for it :)
[20:36] <akshatj> MichealH, Good luck then
[20:36] <MichealH> akshatj: Thanks :)
[20:37] <Daniel0108> hi UndiFineD
[20:51] <highvoltage> do we have quorum for this afternoon's meeting?
[20:53] <czajkowski> I hope so
[20:53] <czajkowski> I didnt go out to be here :)
[20:54] <drubin> I am here
[20:54]  * nhandler is around if necessary
[20:54] <czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA tonights candidates
[20:54] <czajkowski> 7 mins to go
[20:54] <czajkowski> nhandler: thanks
[20:54] <highvoltage> great
[20:54] <Daniel0108> I am here :)
[20:54]  * Daniel0108 is applying for membership :)
[20:55] <Epirotes> Good evening, everybody!
[20:56] <Daniel0108> hey Epirotes :)
[20:56] <highvoltage> czajkowski: did we decide on a chair last time?
[20:57] <czajkowski> highvoltage: dont think so
[20:57] <czajkowski> I can if you want chair
[20:58] <czajkowski> as long as we have quorum
[20:58] <czajkowski> you me, drubin stgraber ? ogra_
[20:58] <MichealH> Good Evening All
[20:58] <MichealH> :)
[20:58] <stgraber> I'm around (though multi-tasking)
[20:58] <Daniel0108> Good evening, MichealH  :)
[20:58] <czajkowski> stgraber: I'm eating so does that count
[20:58] <highvoltage> czajkowski: great, fire away :)
[20:59] <stgraber> czajkowski: unless you have > 2 arms, it does :)
[20:59] <czajkowski> 2 more mins
[20:59] <czajkowski> we need ogra_ and drubin
[20:59] <nhandler> czajkowski: So do you not need me?
[20:59] <czajkowski> ogra_: PING!
[21:00] <czajkowski> nhandler: I think we do
[21:00]  * drubin is here
[21:00] <czajkowski> if you can stay
[21:00] <highvoltage> nhandler: seems like we'll need you on stand-by. if you have to time it would be nice if you could join anyway
[21:00] <Daniel0108> hi phillw
[21:00] <nhandler> czajkowski, highvoltage: Yeah, I can stay :)
[21:00] <phillw> hiyas Dan
[21:00] <MichealH> hey phillw
[21:01] <czajkowski> thanks
[21:01] <czajkowski> gimmie 1 tic
[21:01] <czajkowski> trying to find the hash hey on the keyboard
[21:01] <czajkowski> *mutters*
[21:01] <MichealH> czajkowski: Next to enter? :P
[21:01] <czajkowski> MichealH: no
[21:02] <czajkowski> #startmeeting
[21:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 15:02. The chair is czajkowski.
[21:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[21:02]  * njin is fabiomarconi
[21:02] <czajkowski> aloha and welcome to the EMEA meeting
[21:02] <czajkowski> tonights list is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
[21:02]  * ogra_ shades his ears 
[21:02] <czajkowski> we will work in order of the list there
[21:02] <ogra_> (sorry for being late)
[21:03] <czajkowski> dario cavedon are you here?>
[21:03]  * ic3d is Dario Cavedon
[21:03] <ic3d> hello everybody!
[21:03] <czajkowski> #topic ic3d
[21:03] <highvoltage> [topic] ic3d
[21:03] <Daniel0108> czajkowski: It's [TOPIC]
[21:03] <czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DarioCavedon
[21:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DarioCavedon
[21:04] <highvoltage> ah right. capitals.
[21:04] <Daniel0108> highvoltage: are you a chair?
[21:04] <czajkowski> [TOPIC] ic3d
[21:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  ic3d
[21:04] <czajkowski> ic3d: welcome
[21:04] <czajkowski> ic3d: so tell us about yourself ?
[21:04] <ic3d> czajkowski: thanks!
[21:05] <ic3d> Hello, I'm Dario Cavedon from Ubuntu Italy
[21:05]  * Daniel0108 is preparing for his introduction ;)
[21:05] <ic3d> I joined Ubuntu in 2006, as a translator
[21:06] <czajkowski> Daniel0108: you'll get your turn.
[21:06] <czajkowski> the italian loco is very active alright
[21:06] <ic3d> then became ubuntu-it member since Oct 2007
[21:06] <ic3d> since there I joined other groups
[21:07] <ic3d> and now I'm one of the admins of Ubuntu Italian Web Team
[21:07] <highvoltage> ic3d: what has been your biggest stumbling block in the ubuntu community, or what would you change if you could change any one thing?
[21:07] <Azzurrio> Menopia,
[21:08] <czajkowski> you have given a lot of talks as well
[21:08] <ic3d> highvoltage: stumbling block? mmm... I don't think we have a big block!
[21:09] <czajkowski> ic3d: what issues have you found
[21:09] <czajkowski> getting people involved in translations is a good thing
[21:09] <ic3d> czajkowski: that's my favourite game!
[21:10] <nhandler> ic3d: Very nice work. Your wiki page is also very nice.
[21:10]  * highvoltage has no other questions
[21:10] <czajkowski> ic3d: what does becoming an Ubuntu member mean for you?
[21:10] <ic3d> czajkowski: the biggest issue is having a continuity in contributions
[21:10]  * nhandler is ready to vote
[21:10] <phillw> I also love those who do 'back off ice stuff'
[21:10] <phillw> ditto
[21:11] <czajkowski> [vote] please vote on ic3d application. ONLY BOARD MEMBERS VOTE PLEASE.
[21:11] <MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on ic3d application. ONLY BOARD MEMBERS VOTE PLEASE..
[21:11] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[21:11] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[21:11] <czajkowski> +1
[21:11] <MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[21:11] <highvoltage> +1 [ lots of advocacy, great community and translations involvement ]
[21:11] <phillw> +1
[21:11] <MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[21:11] <MootBot> +1 received from phillw. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[21:11] <czajkowski> phillw: STOP IT PLEASE
[21:11] <ic3d> czajkowski: it means being part of a bigger family (bigger than italian one! :-)
[21:11] <nhandler> +1
[21:11] <MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[21:11] <stgraber> +1
[21:11] <MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[21:11] <phillw> czajkowski: ?
[21:11] <czajkowski> phillw: you're not a board member. please do not vote.
[21:12] <ogra_> +1
[21:12] <MootBot> +1 received from ogra_. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
[21:12] <phillw> sorry, I tought it was open to ubuntu members.
[21:12] <czajkowski> phillw: no i even said board members.
[21:12] <drubin> +1
[21:12] <MootBot> +1 received from drubin. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
[21:12] <czajkowski> #endvote
[21:12] <ogra_> czajkowski, but you used caps ... thats easily overseen
[21:12] <czajkowski> [endvote]
[21:12] <MootBot> Final result is 7 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 7
[21:12] <nhandler> Congratulations and welcome ic3d
[21:12] <czajkowski> ogra_: clearly!
[21:12] <ic3d> nhandler: thanks!
[21:12] <czajkowski> cna someone update the members please to lp
[21:12] <highvoltage> ic3d: congratulations and welcome!
[21:13] <nhandler> I can do LP if needed
[21:13] <czajkowski> nhandler: that would be great
[21:13] <highvoltage> that would be great
[21:13] <czajkowski> thank you
[21:13] <drubin> nhandler: doing it already
[21:13] <nhandler> drubin: That works :)
[21:13] <ic3d> thanks to everybody!
[21:13] <drubin> nhandler: ;)
[21:13] <czajkowski> [TOPIC] Daniel0108
[21:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Daniel0108
[21:13] <czajkowski> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Daniel0108
[21:13] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Daniel0108
[21:13] <czajkowski> Daniel0108: Welcome
[21:14] <Daniel0108> czajkowski: thanks :)
[21:14] <highvoltage> what's pubsim?
[21:14] <Daniel0108> highvoltage: it's a browsergame I'm writing in my free time :)
[21:14] <Daniel0108> highvoltage: and to practice PHP
[21:16] <czajkowski> Daniel0108: Can you tell me a bit how you've helped to re start the loco team
[21:16] <ogra_> geez, thats not a wikipage, thats a thesis !
[21:16] <Daniel0108> czajkowski: okay, I revived it, after the council kicked the old admin out
[21:17] <ogra_> awesome !
[21:17] <Daniel0108> ogra_: thank you :)
[21:17] <Daniel0108> czajkowski: I created some flyers, handed out ubuntu cds, got my friends into the team
[21:17] <Daniel0108> I chaired some meetings and tried to notify the old members :)
[21:17] <nhandler> Daniel0108: Out of all of your Ubuntu contributions, which type of contribution would you say you are the most proud of?
[21:17] <czajkowski> Daniel0108: to be fair we didn;t just kick them out there was good reason :)
[21:18] <Daniel0108> czajkowski: okay, but I don't know what the reason was, nobody wanted to tell me the reason.
[21:18] <Daniel0108> nhandler: the accessibility team :)
[21:18] <Daniel0108> I have many accessibility projects, for example, speechcontrol and TouchLay
[21:18] <czajkowski> Daniel0108: so how do you get people involved now? do you see yourself as the team leader or do you help get people motivated ?
[21:19] <Daniel0108> czajkowski: I tell people about ubuntu and tell them to try it out :)
[21:19] <Daniel0108> czajkowski: and I definitely want to get people motivated
[21:19]  * highvoltage is ready
[21:19]  * drubin as well
[21:20] <czajkowski> ok
[21:20] <czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the membership of Daniel0108 . EMEA members only vote PLEASE!
[21:20] <MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the membership of Daniel0108 . EMEA members only vote PLEASE!.
[21:20] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[21:20] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[21:20] <highvoltage> +1 [ good mentorship efforts and loco team involvement ]
[21:20] <MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[21:20] <ogra_> +1
[21:20] <MootBot> +1 received from ogra_. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[21:20] <nhandler> +0
[21:20] <MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
[21:21] <czajkowski> +0
[21:21] <MootBot> Abstention received from czajkowski. 2 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 2
[21:21] <stgraber> +0
[21:21] <MootBot> Abstention received from stgraber. 2 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 2
[21:21] <drubin> +0 [Good effort but would like to see it sustained for a while first]
[21:21] <MootBot> Abstention received from drubin. 2 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 2
[21:21] <czajkowski> [endvote]
[21:21] <MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 0 against. 4 abstained. Total: 2
[21:22] <czajkowski> Daniel0108: I'm afraid at this time you haven't been sucessful, please don;t take it as a negative thing
[21:22] <czajkowski> you are doing great work
[21:22] <highvoltage> Daniel0108: yep, I think you're on the right track, please apply again in a few months!
[21:22] <czajkowski> [TOPIC] MichealH
[21:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  MichealH
[21:22] <Daniel0108> czajkowski: okay, thank you, what was the problem?
[21:22] <MichealH> Hey
[21:22] <drubin> Daniel0108: Good luck hope to see you back here with the loco back up and running :)
[21:22] <czajkowski> [LINK[ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MichealH
[21:22] <highvoltage> MichealH is pretty much part of the furniture in the emea rmb meetings already
[21:23] <czajkowski> heh
[21:23] <MichealH> highvoltage: Yeah lol
[21:23] <MichealH> I think I know what to say next ;)
[21:23] <czajkowski> MichealH: you know the drill, how are you doing in the land of Ubuntu
[21:23] <highvoltage> MichealH: do you remember how many times you applied before?
[21:23] <MichealH> Hello there... I am Micheal Harker! And today I am applying for Ubuntu Membership because I know I have what it takes to be one! I am a Administrator for Daniel0108's refounded loco - Ubuntu Austria and I am doing lots of Ubuntu work and external work for Ubuntu. Please look at my wiki page (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MichealH/) and I will answer any questions you may have.
[21:23] <MichealH> highvoltage: 6 or 7 :P
[21:23] <MichealH> But I did as everyone saked and updated my wiki
[21:23] <MichealH> *asked
[21:25] <MichealH> I am in full contact with my apprentice, I only contacted him yesterday (But I do not update my wiki, I really should get into the habit)
[21:25] <highvoltage> MichealH: Alan Bell commented on your involvement in classroom sessions, but you don't seem to mention that anywhere on your wiki page
[21:25] <czajkowski> MichealH: ok so you're in Ubuntu uk how do you help administor another teams loco with a language barrier?
[21:25] <highvoltage> MichealH: could you tell us a bit more about that?
[21:26] <MichealH> highvoltage: I have only done 1 session currently, but hope o do many more in the future as my first one was a success
[21:26]  * charlie-tca will put in a good word for MichealH today. He is doing quite well these days. He is very helpful in those channels I am in on IRC.
[21:27] <MichealH> czajkowski: I help Daniel0108 With mainly admin tasks and providing him with his own meeting bot... I am learning German too so it is a great oppertunity to put my practise into good use, while being his Admin guy!
[21:27] <czajkowski> MichealH: can you tell us about your work in accessibilty ?
[21:28] <highvoltage> MichealH: is there a demo site of Opunity up somewhere?
[21:29] <highvoltage> (unrelated to your membership, but it just sounds interesting)
[21:29] <highvoltage> other than that, nothing else from me
[21:29] <MichealH> czajkowski: Sure, I get involved in The SII, which is a team now upstream from Ubuntu. They do Artifitial Intellegence and do mainly Wintermute stuff, I am not a dev so I do not know alot, But as I am a reserve trustee I get the need-to-know stuff to help manage the team
[21:29] <MichealH> highvoltage: Lemme see, I have a link somewhere
[21:29] <MichealH> Or the Core, running a webpage
[21:29] <MichealH> *Of
[21:30] <MichealH> http://u.touchlay.com/coalwater/
[21:30] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://u.touchlay.com/coalwater/
[21:30] <MichealH> There we go!
[21:31]  * phillw will quietly state that MichealH is a really good admin guy to have around.
[21:31] <MichealH> Its pretty simple at the moment, But it is running the Core (It is module based, so people can develop their own plugins!
[21:31] <czajkowski> we ready to vote folks ?
[21:31] <MichealH> We still have the Design to do on the UI! :D
[21:32] <czajkowski> [VOTE] please vote on MichealH membership. EMEA members only vote PLEASE.
[21:32] <MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on MichealH membership. EMEA members only vote PLEASE..
[21:32] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[21:32] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[21:32] <MichealH> Also, coalwater is our 2nd Head of Dev, we also collaborate, but he is inactive at the moment, I think it is Real Life issues
[21:32] <czajkowski> +0
[21:32] <MootBot> Abstention received from czajkowski. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
[21:33] <ogra_> +1
[21:33] <MootBot> +1 received from ogra_. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
[21:33] <highvoltage> +1 [ contributions to forums, loco teams, helpfulness on irc channels, and general determination to become an Ubuntu member ]
[21:33] <MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
[21:33] <nhandler> +0
[21:33] <drubin> +1
[21:33] <MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 2 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 2
[21:33] <MootBot> +1 received from drubin. 3 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 3
[21:33] <stgraber> +0
[21:33] <MootBot> Abstention received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 3
[21:33] <czajkowski> hmm
[21:33] <czajkowski> we have a tie
[21:34] <czajkowski> and we don't have a 7th person around to vote
[21:34] <phillw> czajkowski: can ubuntu members vote on this one?
[21:34] <nhandler> phillw: No
[21:34] <czajkowski> phillw: no, it's an EMEA board meeting
[21:34] <phillw> okies.
[21:34] <czajkowski> [endvote]
[21:34] <MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 3 abstained. Total: 3
[21:35] <czajkowski> it's a tie so we can either take it to the mailing list
[21:35] <victorp> I think the chair should decide
[21:35] <popey> That's 3+
[21:35] <MichealH> czajkowski: So, what happens now?
[21:35] <popey> o/ btw
[21:35] <ogra_> popey, !
[21:35] <highvoltage> czajkowski: didn't we decide at somepoint that someone needs +4 for membership?
[21:35] <MichealH> popey: You are +1?
[21:35] <popey> just arrived
[21:35] <czajkowski> highvoltage: we did as there are 7 of us on the board
[21:35] <czajkowski> MichealH: please dont put votes into people minds
[21:35] <czajkowski> please
[21:35] <MichealH> Okies
[21:36] <popey> I haven't read anything, have just arrived
[21:36] <czajkowski> ok so we have to move on
[21:36] <czajkowski> as we're over the half way mark
[21:36] <czajkowski> [TOPIC] victorp
[21:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  victorp
[21:36] <highvoltage> MichealH: You'll have to work a bit more at it! Good luck for next time!
[21:37] <victorp> o?
[21:37] <victorp> I am here
[21:37] <czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VictorPalau
[21:37] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VictorPalau
[21:37] <czajkowski> victorp: welcome
[21:37] <victorp> I contribute on the are of Hardware Certification and Enablement. Here is a list of a few things that I have been working on in natty:
[21:37] <victorp> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~vtuson/+karmaA
[21:37] <victorp>     Ubuntu Certification answers - this is taken off quite well and has allowed us to rollout improvements to our websites
[21:37] <victorp>     Ubuntu Component Catalog - probably a first on the linux world?
[21:37] <victorp>     Listing components within the certification website
[21:37] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/~vtuson/+karmaA
[21:37] <victorp>     Hit list of key bugs hardware support bugs - Managing these bugs on a weekly basis
[21:37] <victorp>     Regular Testing for Lucid and Natty SRUs
[21:37] <victorp>     frequently blogging about Ubuntu
[21:37] <victorp>     [LINK] http://victorpalau.net
[21:37] <victorp>  
[21:37] <victorp> I am also cheerleading Ubuntu Friendly in Oneiric
[21:37] <victorp> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly
[21:37] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly
[21:37] <MichealH> highvoltage: Does it go to the Mailing List? Or I need to re-apply later?
[21:37] <victorp> and that is me :)
[21:37] <czajkowski> victorp: thank you :D
[21:37] <czajkowski> nice wiki page and you're doing a great job
[21:38] <czajkowski> was interesting listing to you on @uupc
[21:38] <victorp> thanks , doing my best
[21:38] <highvoltage> MichealH: you need to re-apply later
[21:38] <MichealH> highvoltage: Okay
[21:38] <victorp> oh yes thank to popey for organising that
[21:38] <highvoltage> victorp: some strong testimonials there, and nice wiki page!
[21:38] <drubin> victorp: getting some last minute translations in there while the meeting was going on.
[21:39] <victorp> ah yes, I realise that we need cehckbox translated
[21:39] <czajkowski> victorp: so how would you like to see more community people get involved? spreading the word?
[21:39] <victorp> for Ubuntu friendly
[21:39]  * ogra_ would have put up a testimonial too, but i can +1 here instead :)
[21:39] <czajkowski> yes
[21:39] <victorp> yes, but also helping us shape the programme
[21:39]  * highvoltage has no questions
[21:40] <victorp> it is hard to decide if we should make it a black and white decision or have more of level for hardware
[21:40]  * czajkowski has no further questions 
[21:40]  * stgraber is ready to vote
[21:40] <nhandler> victorp: Out of curiosity, how much of your contributions fall outside of your job at canonical?
[21:40]  * drubin too
[21:40] <victorp> difficult to say, but I tell you one thing mdz didn't ask me to do Ubuntu Friendly
[21:40] <victorp> ;
[21:40] <czajkowski> [VOTE] please vote on the victorp membership. EMEA members only vote, PLEASE
[21:40] <MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the victorp membership. EMEA members only vote, PLEASE.
[21:40] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[21:40] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[21:41] <czajkowski> +1
[21:41] <MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[21:41] <drubin> +1
[21:41] <MootBot> +1 received from drubin. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[21:41] <ogra_> +1
[21:41] <MootBot> +1 received from ogra_. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[21:41] <stgraber> +1
[21:41] <czajkowski> well done and keep up the work
[21:41] <MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[21:41] <highvoltage> +1 [ great work on certification / friendly / SRUs / etc ]
[21:41] <MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[21:41] <nhandler> +1
[21:41] <MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
[21:41] <czajkowski> [endvote]
[21:41] <MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
[21:41] <nhandler> Congratulations victorp
[21:41] <victorp> \o/
[21:41] <czajkowski> sweet welcome victorp
[21:41] <highvoltage> congratulations and welcome, victorp
[21:41] <victorp> thanks! very happy here!
[21:41] <ogra_> congrats, yeah :)
[21:42] <drubin> added to ~ubuntumembers
[21:42] <drubin> victorp: congrats!
[21:42] <victorp> 2nd time lucky
[21:42] <czajkowski> [TOPIC} savvas
[21:42] <MootBot> New Topic: [TOPIC} savvas
[21:42] <czajkowski> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/medigeek
[21:42] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/medigeek
[21:42] <savvas> finally :)
[21:42] <czajkowski> wow what a wiki
[21:42] <czajkowski> detailed
[21:42] <czajkowski> :)
[21:43] <savvas> Well I hope it has enough heh
[21:43] <highvoltage> savvas: how long ago was IRC still popular?
[21:44] <ogra_> heh, a testimonial from alkis
[21:44] <czajkowski> savvas: so how do you see Ubutnu has grown in the past few years since you've gotten involved and how can we do better?
[21:44] <ogra_> nice
[21:44] <highvoltage> if they're from greece they better have one from alkis! :p
[21:44] <savvas> highvoltage: I thought of removing that line :) it was popular in Cyprus until 5 years ago
[21:44] <ogra_> highvoltage, true dat !
[21:45] <savvas> czajkowski: hm, well ubuntu on the aspect of software and community has grown, that's a fact. desktop and server editions look beautiful as far I'm concerned...
[21:46] <savvas> I can't think of anything bad right now, but we always have bug reports on launchpad :)
[21:46] <highvoltage> savvas: I notice you've done some uploads in the past, but not much recently (https://launchpad.net/~medigeek/+related-software), what changed?
[21:47]  * czajkowski has no more questions
[21:48]  * drubin is ready to vote
[21:48] <savvas> highvoltage: time was something I didn't have at the moment. I thought of focusing my efforts at the forums, with real people and real problems, rather than uploading packages on ppas that few will use
[21:48] <czajkowski> [VOTE] please vote on savvas membership. EMEA members only vote PLEASE
[21:48] <MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on savvas membership. EMEA members only vote PLEASE.
[21:48] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[21:48] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[21:48] <czajkowski> +1
[21:48] <MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[21:48] <drubin> +1
[21:48] <MootBot> +1 received from drubin. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[21:48] <czajkowski> massive work well done
[21:48] <highvoltage> +1 [ great bug fixing efforts,  forum work, great localised documentation, and other loco work ]
[21:48] <MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[21:49] <nhandler> +1
[21:49] <MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[21:49] <stgraber> +1
[21:49] <MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[21:49] <ogra_> +1
[21:49] <MootBot> +1 received from ogra_. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
[21:49] <czajkowski> [endvote]
[21:49] <MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
[21:49] <alkisg> Congrats savvas :)
[21:49] <czajkowski> w00t well done and welcome
[21:49] <savvas> thank you :)
[21:49] <ogra_> congrats
[21:49] <czajkowski> [TOPIC} njin
[21:49] <MootBot> New Topic: [TOPIC} njin
[21:49] <pc_magas> Hello what I missed
[21:49] <highvoltage> congratulations and welcome!
[21:49] <czajkowski> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FabioMarconi
[21:49] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FabioMarconi
[21:50] <njin> hello everybody
[21:50] <pc_magas> I have just see about the meeting
[21:50] <czajkowski> njin: your wiki page is a bit bare
[21:50] <njin> yes, i prefere triage bugs
[21:50] <highvoltage> njin: you have lots of karma in launchpad, where does that come from? bug triaging?
[21:51] <njin> only from
[21:51] <njin> bugtriaging
[21:51] <highvoltage> I hope you don't use ubuntu while driving :)
[21:51] <njin> LOL
[21:51] <njin> but i really want to..
[21:51] <njin> but i can't
If you have a deathwish....
[21:52] <pc_magas> Guys what is bug triaging?
[21:52] <czajkowski> pc_magas: there is a meeting going on
[21:52] <nhandler> njin: Any plans to get involved with the bug control team?
[21:52] <czajkowski> we can talk afterwards if you want
[21:52] <pc_magas> ok
[21:52]  * ogra_ just checked his bug mailbox 
[21:53] <highvoltage> njin: I'll be honest with you, I doubt you'll get membership today. it's usually when someone can show that they've done significant and sustained contributions to ubuntu when they get membership. It would be great if your wiki page could have more examples of your work and testimonials from people you've worked with
[21:53] <ogra_> 462 mails from njin
[21:53] <njin> tes, but on first I've to learn very well kernal
[21:53] <ogra_> wow
[21:53] <czajkowski> njin: tbh I feel the same as highvoltage
[21:54] <njin> well, thats only a wiki page
[21:54] <czajkowski> isn't there anyone who could have left testimonal for you?
[21:54] <ogra_> njin, you really need to do something with the wiki ... your contribution is awesome but needs to be put on it
[21:54] <nhandler> Yep. Your contributions look great so far (based on your Launchpad profile), but a more detailed wiki would be nice
[21:54] <czajkowski> njin: which is what we look at
[21:54] <njin> I start my work with the com munity on ityalian forum
[21:54] <njin> in the 2008
[21:54] <highvoltage> njin: indeed, although it's the content of the wiki page we're more interested in than the page itself
[21:54] <njin> then I join iso-testing team
[21:54] <nhandler> The testimonials are also rather important, as they come from people you have worked with. As a result, those people tend to know you better than we do
[21:55] <czajkowski> njin: the italian loco does great work surely somone on the iso team there could have left a comment.
[21:55] <njin> a nd i've translated kvm and arm for the doc team, but bugsquad really catch all of my time
[21:55] <highvoltage> njin: those are great things! it would be incredibly useful if you could list that on your wiki page along with the work that you have done on those teams
[21:55] <czajkowski> we're going to have to move on we;re nearly out of time
[21:55] <czajkowski> [vote] please vote on njin membership. EMEA members only PLEASE
[21:55] <MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on njin membership. EMEA members only PLEASE.
[21:55] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[21:55] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[21:55] <highvoltage> ah that's where your translation karma came from then
[21:55]  * highvoltage is really tempted to give njin the benefit of the doubt
[21:55] <ogra_> njin, ping me next week, i'll happily write a testimonial for the bugwork
[21:56] <nhandler> -1 (Great contributions, but please update your wiki page and add some testimonials. Then, come back next time.)
[21:56] <MootBot> -1 received from nhandler. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
[21:56] <njin> I think from rosetta, i don't remember, karma go up and down
[21:56] <czajkowski> -1
[21:56] <MootBot> -1 received from czajkowski. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
[21:56] <stgraber> -1
[21:56] <MootBot> -1 received from stgraber. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
[21:56] <highvoltage> +1 [ great work so far, but would like to see more documentation ]
[21:56] <MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 1 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
[21:56] <highvoltage> no no no
[21:56] <highvoltage> -1
[21:56] <ogra_> +0
[21:56] <MootBot> Abstention received from ogra_. 1 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -2
[21:56] <drubin> -1 [For now would like to see you back really soon]
[21:56] <MootBot> -1 received from drubin. 1 for, 4 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -3
[21:56] <highvoltage> not sure what mootbot did with mine, but it was meant to be a -1
[21:56] <highvoltage> (sorry)
[21:57] <czajkowski> nhandler: ??
[21:57] <nhandler> czajkowski: I voted
[21:57] <czajkowski> [endvote]
[21:57] <MootBot> Final result is 1 for, 4 against. 1 abstained. Total: -3
[21:57] <czajkowski> blind
[21:57] <highvoltage> (-4 just for the record)
[21:57] <czajkowski> oh he;s gone
[21:57] <czajkowski> :(
[21:57] <czajkowski> [TOPIC] Epirotes
[21:57] <MootBot> New Topic:  Epirotes
[21:58] <czajkowski> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/epirotes
[21:58] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/epirotes
[21:58] <czajkowski> Epirotes: last but not least :)
[21:58] <czajkowski> welcome
[21:58] <highvoltage> 16:57 < czajkowski> [TOPIC] Epirotes
[21:58] <highvoltage> 16:57 < MootBot> New Topic:  Epirotes
[21:58] <Epirotes> Thank you!
[21:58] <highvoltage> (sorry again, *bashes keyboard into submission*)
[21:58] <Epirotes> My name is Elias Epirotes.
[21:58] <Epirotes> I was introduced to ubuntu by a friend in 2007 who insisted that I try it out.
[21:59] <Epirotes> In November 2008 I joined the forum of the Greek community where I eventually became a moderator last summer.
[21:59] <czajkowski> highvoltage: gesh you'd swear you werent paying attention :p
[21:59] <Epirotes> Since 2009, I also participate in translations in lauchpad.
[22:00] <czajkowski> nicely laid out wiki , thank you . makes our life a lot easier
[22:00] <Epirotes> thanks
[22:01] <czajkowski> Epirotes: so how would you like to get more people involved in Ubuntu ?
[22:01]  * highvoltage is ready to vote
[22:01] <Epirotes> I would really love that and I'm already doing the best I can.
[22:02] <Epirotes> I believe that open source software in general is way to go in future, especially here in Greece.
[22:02] <czajkowski> "D
[22:02] <czajkowski> :D
[22:03] <czajkowski> [VOTE] please vote on the membership of Epirotes . EMEA members only, PLEASE
[22:03] <MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the membership of Epirotes . EMEA members only, PLEASE.
[22:03] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[22:03] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[22:03] <czajkowski> +1
[22:03] <MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[22:03] <ogra_> alkisg, you have been busy writing testimonials recently :)
[22:03] <ogra_> +1
[22:03] <MootBot> +1 received from ogra_. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[22:03] <pc_magas> +1
[22:03] <MootBot> +1 received from pc_magas. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[22:03] <drubin> +1 [Good continued forum contributions]
[22:03] <MootBot> +1 received from drubin. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[22:03] <highvoltage> +1 [ great loco work and translations and good testimonials from prominent members ]
[22:03] <MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[22:03] <stgraber> +1
[22:03] <MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
[22:03] <czajkowski> [endvote]
[22:03] <MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
[22:03] <drubin> pc_magas: you aren't allowed to vote
[22:03] <czajkowski> welcome abord
[22:03] <alkisg> ogra_: it was completely random that I saw their applications 30 minutes ago :D
[22:03] <alkisg> Congrats Elias
[22:03] <czajkowski> #endmeeting
[22:03] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:03.
[22:03] <Epirotes> Thank you very much; it is an honor.
[22:04] <czajkowski> thank you all for coming
[22:04] <savvas> woohoo! :)
[22:04] <highvoltage> congratulations and welcome, Epirotes
[22:04] <ogra_> alkisg, heh
[22:04] <czajkowski> more new Ubuntu members :D
[22:04] <Daniel0108> czajkowski: when do you suggest me to re-apply? :)
[22:04] <nhandler> Congratulations to all of the new members
[22:04] <Epirotes> highvoltage: thank you
[22:05] <drubin> added to ~ubuntumebmers Epirotes welcome :)
[22:05] <czajkowski> Daniel0108: I think you need some more time and to get invovled in projects in Ubutnu and not upstream and work on getting more people here to cheer you on
[22:05] <czajkowski> give it a few months
[22:05] <czajkowski> nhandler: thanks for your help
[22:05] <Epirotes> drubin: thank you
[22:05] <Daniel0108> czajkowski: thank you very much :)
[22:05] <czajkowski> highvoltage: drubin stgraber ogra_ as always it's been fun :)
[22:05] <ogra_> thanks for chairing
[22:05] <ogra_> :)
[22:05] <czajkowski> ogra_: one of these days you're chairing :)
[22:05] <highvoltage> yep, thanks to all and thanks to czajkowski for chairing
[22:05] <drubin> czajkowski: ^5 thanks for chairing
[22:05] <ogra_> and for the wakeup ping
[22:06] <pleia2> just waiting to get quorum for the CC meeting
[22:06] <czajkowski> right now to go and break my other machine as it wont work
[22:06] <czajkowski> toodles
[22:06]  * pleia2 waves to mdke 
[22:06] <mdke> evenin
[22:06] <czajkowski> pleia2: sorry we went a bit over
[22:06] <nhandler> czajkowski: You are welcome
[22:06]  * mdke waves back
[22:06]  * Technoviking is here
[22:07] <highvoltage> eek, I forgot to add my CC agenda item (the sabdfl process I mentioned during the Ask Mark session at UDS), but I haven't really prepared so I can add that for next time
[22:07] <pleia2> ok :)
[22:07]  * jono waves
[22:08] <mdke> highvoltage: sounds good. Could you add a link to some context for those who missed that?
[22:08] <mdke> (on the agenda)
[22:08] <highvoltage> mdke: will do, that's pretty much the main thing I need to do in preperation
[22:09] <mdke> coolio
[22:09] <mdke> how many do we need for quorum?
[22:09] <Technoviking> 4
[22:09] <mdke> maybe popey will make it
[22:09] <jono> I believe Mark is traveling right now
[22:09] <mdke> yeah, he said that he can't make it
[22:10] <jono> np
[22:11] <pleia2> well, we can probably start the meeting even without quorum
[22:11] <pleia2> we can take things to the list if we need to vote or anything
[22:12] <pleia2> #startmeeting
[22:12] <MootBot> Meeting started at 16:12. The chair is pleia2.
[22:12] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[22:12] <pleia2> [TOPIC] Governance Boards (staffing, feedback/reports)
[22:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  Governance Boards (staffing, feedback/reports)
[22:12] <mako> greetings
[22:12] <pleia2> I added this before UDS, but I think we've got it sorted
[22:12] <mdke> hey mako
[22:12] <pleia2> so unless anyone has comments, I'm just going to pull it from the agenda
[22:12] <Technoviking> walking back my office, wireless will disappear for a sec, will red buffer
[22:13] <mdke> pleia2: none from me
[22:13] <pleia2> is
[22:13] <pleia2> is nathan-bahn here?
[22:13] <pleia2> I think this sounder agenda item may be leftover, and I think that issue is closed anyway
[22:14] <mdke> I recall that this was already discussed a second time at a recent meeting
[22:14] <pleia2> yeah
[22:14] <pleia2> [TOPIC] General
[22:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  General
[22:14] <pleia2> anything anyone wants to bring up which isn't on the agenda?
[22:14] <Technoviking> back
[22:15] <mdke> if nathan-bahn is reading and has something to add, perhaps he could email us with context on any additional issues that he would like to raise that wasn't covered in the previous discussion
[22:15] <jono> nothing to add to the agenda from me
[22:15] <highvoltage> mdke: added it to the talk page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda/talk (will link to there)
[22:16] <mdke> highvoltage: thanks
[22:16] <mdke> highvoltage: will read with interest, although I guess we should deal with it in a meeting when Mark is present
[22:17] <highvoltage> mdke: indeed
[22:18] <pleia2> ok, anything else?
[22:18] <mako> i am happy to speak to my understanding of the sabdfl-veto stuff
[22:19] <czajkowski> I'd be interested to hear more on it
[22:19] <mako> from a communitygovernance perspective (AIUI) there is no such thing
[22:19] <highvoltage> indeed, I looked very hard for it :)
[22:19] <mako> according to my memory (and, fwiw, http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/governance as well) mark has a *casting* vote
[22:19] <mako> on both the CC and the TB
[22:20] <mako> that essentially only comes into play in the context of deadlocks
[22:21] <mako> i've been on the CC since the beginning and i am pretty sure it has never been used on the cc. not sure about the tb
[22:21] <mdke> I think that in practice that doesn't reflect reality though
[22:21] <mako> now, mark plays another role in the process
[22:21] <mdke> ah sorry, carry on
[22:21] <mako> which is that he funds development and indirectly pays everyone who works on canonical
[22:21] <mako> and, in that capacity, also controls several resources like the ubuntu trademark
[22:22] <mako> and although the community and community governance may be consulted (perhaps even asked in decide with votes?, although i can't remember any examples)
[22:22] <mako> its essentially his decision. i think you can think of that like a sabdfl veto
[22:23] <mako> although i don't think that's a particularly useful or accurate way of describing the political structure
[22:23] <highvoltage> people do often say that something has been "sabdfl'd" though. I guess it's probably something that happens more within Canonical than in the Ubuntu community directly
[22:23] <highvoltage> in that case it might not be as relevant
[22:23] <mako> there certainly have been examples of decisions that mark, as head of canonical, decided not to have the CC decide
[22:24] <mako> highvoltage: i think people are using terms that are somewhere between vague and incorrect. you should correct them or ask them to be more clear :)
[22:24] <czajkowski> highvoltage: can you give an example of something being sabdfl'd ??
[22:24] <mdke> I think we should distinguish between two types of "sabdflication"
[22:24] <mdke> (good word, btw)
[22:25] <mdke> the first is the type mako is talking about
[22:25] <czajkowski> I'd hate for the word to become like googled :)
[22:25] <highvoltage> czajkowski: not off the top of my head, but I can get some for the next meeting, it should be quite easy
[22:25] <mdke> the second is where Mark just makes a proposal for a new feature or a change in the distribution; and that is taken as law because of his position
[22:26] <mdke> and that is the type that highvoltage seems to be talking about. It seems useful to me to clarify that such proposals really should have discussion in the project
[22:26] <highvoltage> yep
[22:26] <mdke> as for the first type, I don't think there is anything we can do about it
[22:27] <mako> sure. i also think that there are people who think becaues mark has suggested something, nobody else can disagree with it.
[22:27] <mdke> as mako said, it's just a factor of Mark's roll as bankroll of the project :)
[22:28] <mako> i understand that. but i would encourage people to step up and let their opinion be known if they disagree. mark has suggested a number of features which, due to reactions by others, have not worked out.. quite a few actually :)
[22:28] <mdke> yep. highvoltage's proposal seems to be a way of making that process more explicit
[22:29] <mdke> particularly if Mark himself is amenable to the idea
[22:30] <mdke> and we might be able to clarify the role of the sabdfl in the process, to clear up some of the confusion that mako has mentioned
[22:30] <pleia2> so do we want to pick this up at the next meeting with mark?
[22:30] <mako> i tend to think we have more than enough sabdfl-specific infrastructure (governance and otherwise) but am generally interested in thing that will increase dialog and remove social barrirers to more meaningful participation :)
[22:31] <mdke> pleia2: I'm in favour of doing that, yes
[22:31] <mako> my guess is that, in general, people are reticent to publically disagree with other people who have lots of respect/authority within the project
[22:31] <pleia2> highvoltage: some examples would be great for the next meeting, thanks for putting together some details :)
[22:31] <mako> clearly, sabdfl is going to be top of that list. but i imagine it's a more general problem
[22:31] <mdke> mako: yeah, with some exceptions :)
[22:31] <highvoltage> pleia2: ok, will do. I already remembered two good ones
[22:32] <mdke> mako: I think that with Mark, it is more pronounced not only because of his actual role in the project, but also because of the concept of the sabdfl that maybe portrays something slightly different from the reality
[22:33] <mdke> mako: but I take your point that this phenomenon is not necessarily limited to Mark
[22:33] <mako> mdke: totally :)
[22:34] <pleia2> ok, we can probably wrap up then, thanks everyone
[22:34]  * mdke nods, thanksall
[22:35] <pleia2> #endmeeting
[22:35] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:35.
[22:35] <mako> ciao!
[22:56]  * popey arrives fashionably late
[22:58]  * phillw wonders if popey would actually be on time for his own funeral :P
[22:58]  * phillw runs ------>
[22:58] <popey> :D