[00:54] <ScottL> holstein, do you think you could help with the team report for this (really last) month?  it would be due in seven days
[01:00] <holstein> ScottL: yes
[01:01] <holstein> i have a couple action items to get on
[01:01] <holstein> ScottL: im off tomorrow (so far)
[01:01] <holstein> i'll try and get cracking on it then
[01:02] <holstein> i think i'll get back too late tonite to catch you
[01:43] <ScottL> holstein, great!  thank you a lot :)  i'll help as well though
[01:46]  * ScottL is happy because he got pulse to work jack tonight using pulseaudio-module-jack
[01:46] <ScottL> i managed to record sound from youtube via firefox via jacksink into ardour through my delta44
[01:48] <crimsun> heh
[01:50] <falktx_> ScottL: pulse routed to jack ?
[01:50]  * falktx_ is interested on new methods
[01:50] <ScottL> eh, i'm using pulseaudio-module-jack to do it
[01:51] <ScottL> tonight was the first phase, just getting it working
[01:51] <ScottL> now i'll try to quantify it better and see the performance
[01:51] <ScottL> i'll be honest, it is apparently unusable on the onboard audio
[01:51] <ScottL> but on my delta44 is seems pretty damn good so far
[01:52] <ScottL> i'm curious how many people in ubuntu studio are using two audio cards
[01:52] <ScottL> maybe i shoudl just disable my onboard in bios
[01:54] <falktx_> ScottL: but how do you make pulse to bridge to jack?
[01:54] <falktx_> pulseaudio-module-jack is the module, but you need to do something to trigger the bridge...
[02:01] <ScottL> apparently jackdbus is happening now
[02:02] <ScottL> i'm not really up on all the technical aspect but i'm following what david h. said basically on the -devel mailing list
[02:02] <ScottL> falktx_, 
[02:02] <ScottL> ^^^^
[02:03] <falktx_> ScottL: well, jackdbus does not do that
[02:03] <ScottL> david had said that things should "just work" now and it seems like it is
[02:03] <falktx_> jackdbus simply stops/starts jack as pulseaudio demans
[02:03] <ScottL> here's what i did
[02:03] <ScottL> unmuted my speakers first with enyv24control :)
[02:03] <ScottL> :P
[02:04] <ScottL> then i installed pulseaudio-module-jack
[02:04] <ScottL> restarted machine
[02:04] <ScottL> started firefox, found video, and started playing it
[02:04] <ScottL> using pavucontrol i made sure it was playing through delta44
[02:04] <ScottL> started qjackctl
[02:05] <ScottL> set jack for delta card and started jack
[02:05] <ScottL> oh, when i ran pavucontrol i think i actually set the stream to go through "jacksink"
[02:05] <ScottL> jack connections now show a jacksink input, routed it into ardour and recorded it
[02:07] <ScottL> falktx_, and i thought pulseaudio-module-jack _was_ the bridge
[02:09] <falktx_> ScottL: yes, kinda. you still need to make pulse connect to jack manually
[02:11] <ScottL> falktx_, in the qjackctl connections window i made the connection between the jacksink input and the ardour track
[02:16] <ScottL> falktx_, did you see what i typed last about using qjackctl to connect from jacksink to ardour?
[02:16] <ScottL> is this what you are talking about?
[02:20] <falktx_> ScottL: beh, forget this
[02:20] <falktx_> I'm still happy with my pulse-jack thing
[02:21] <falktx_> if you use jack all the time, even if not making music, it makes sense to have pulseaudio always bridged
[02:21] <ScottL> falktx_,  is there still confusion on how i made the bridge?
[02:21] <falktx_> my little script makes pulseaudio do that right from the login ;)
[02:21] <ScottL> is there something that i'm excluding perhaps or not explaining correctly?
[02:22] <falktx_> ScottL: you made the bridge when you selected the pulseaudio output as jacksink
[02:22] <falktx_> that is the key
[02:22] <ScottL> okay :)  good then
[02:23] <ScottL> i seem to be doing it right i assume
[05:49] <holstein> ScottL: your out right?
[13:12] <scott-work> buenos dias
[13:40] <scott-work> ailo: i made some changes to the help.ubuntu.com page mock-up:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox#help.ubuntu.com%20landing%20page
[13:42] <ailo> scott-work, You're working on having the whole documentation live in the wiki, right?
[13:42] <ailo> I'm assuming..
[13:43] <scott-work> ailo:  i am using the sandbox just to play with it until we get the correct form then it will be put into https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio
[13:43] <scott-work> and i think all the user documentation should be located at help.ubuntu.com
[13:43] <scott-work> i also think that all the developer/contributer documentation should be in wiki.ubuntu.com
[13:44] <scott-work> which means that none of this will directly be located on the website (although we may see about mirroring it there)
[13:44] <scott-work> does that answer your question?
[13:44]  * scott-work was unsure
[13:45] <ailo> scott-work, Yeah. I think it looks good. No need to have documentation on the main site then.
[13:45] <ailo> I like it
[13:46] <scott-work> good :)
[13:46] <ailo> Then https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio should really be clean and professional, right?
[13:46] <scott-work> although i still would like to make a few other aesthetic changes to make it prettier and more integrated with itself
[13:47] <scott-work> i would like it to be clean and professional, yes
[13:47]  * scott-work worries that he isn't the right person to make it clean and professional though
[13:48] <scott-work> my primary concern is making it
[13:48] <scott-work> 1. contain thorough and essentially needed information for users
[13:49] <scott-work> 2. make it immediate accessible via structuring without needing to hunt through pages
[13:49] <scott-work> this is why i wanted to make https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio a landing page with broad links to other categories/wikis
[13:50] <scott-work> hopefully no more than three clicks will lead a user to the information they need
[13:50] <ailo> It makes sense
[13:50] <scott-work> i think trying to squeeze all the links, especially with the inclusion of work flows, tutorial videos, etc, into the front page would be too much
[13:52] <ailo> I have this 5-categories-per-level theory
[13:53] <ailo> Unless it's an index, which should be ordered alphabetically or numerally
[13:54] <ailo> If you have no more than 3-7 categories to choose from, you get a very nice overview of the information
[13:55] <ailo> If the frontpage has 3-7 links/categories, then each of them could have either 3-7 categories/links or a full text on a subject.
[13:55] <ailo> Something like that
[13:56] <ailo> But, first, you need to know what the material is about and how to cagorize it. Which is a sub-category to something else and so on
[13:58] <ailo> Anyway, I don't have any clear opinions on the outlay of the front page at the moment. But, I do think it's good to do some sketches and work on what is possible graphically
[14:00] <ailo> And about categories/links - I'm sure there's all kinds of science for it. I base my 3-7 category amount on human perception. When we look at something, we can easily see those amounts without needing to count. It's easy to orientate.
[14:02] <ailo> As for the actual categorization - I think I would like to follow other examples, like the standard Ubuntu Documentation and whatever comes to mind. It's a little chicken and the egg, though. Do you start with the categories, or do you base the categories on the material?
[14:02] <ailo> I would like to start with the material that I know for sure we need.
[14:03] <ailo> This way, I know exactly what I need to work on right now :)
[14:04] <ailo> So, that's why I would like to start with just gathering all the material I can find on Hardware issues and installation and try to condense that into some sort of readable text.
[14:10] <scott-work> ailo:  that is why i was focusing on :  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/IntroTutVideos
[14:10] <scott-work> i wanted to identify what material or information users might need
[14:10] <scott-work> granted the introduction sections probably should be moved to the website
[14:11] <scott-work> this presumes that the introduction stuff would be for people who have not already decided to use or are using ubuntu studio and therefore should be on the website as an outreach program
[14:11] <scott-work> ailo: please feel free to add or rearrange https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/IntroTutVideos as needed
[14:11] <scott-work> i would really like to develop an organizational chart to help us with doing the documentation
[14:12]  * scott-work realizes this may be an iterative process and likely to change throughout the entire process
[14:14] <ailo> What is important here, I think, is to think from a non-Linux point of view when doing the front page
[14:15] <ailo> Any Linux specific issues should of course be highlighted, but they might not have the same priority for a common user as for a Linux user
[14:40] <scott-work> ailo:  how inovled do you want to get with non-linux topics?
[14:41] <scott-work> i'm not adverse to including some helpful tips but i really didn't want to hold user's hands that haven't used linux before too much
[14:42] <ailo> scott-work, It's not that I want there to be additional topics, that are non-linux. Just that the form of the documentation can easily get unfriendly towards someone who doesn't know anything about Linux
[14:42] <scott-work> i was hoping that we might condense some topics that non-linux users would need and then provide links to existing documetnation
[14:42] <scott-work> oh, yeah, that makes sense ailo , i understand :)
[14:43] <scott-work> right, which is why i had structured the IntroTutVideo structure like i did, but i think that it's perhaps too much for the user documenation
[14:43] <scott-work> ailo: do you think we should include "what is ubuntu studio" in the user documentation?
[14:43]  * scott-work is second guessing himself too much
[14:43] <ailo> Absolutely
[14:44] <ailo> It think the documentation should be just as readable to anyone
[15:14] <scott-work> ailo:  then we will include the "what is ubuntu studio" stuff in the user documentaiton
[15:14] <holstein> scott-work: team reports?
[15:14] <scott-work> holstein: sure
[15:14] <scott-work> ailo: i don't mind doing the intial effort but i would certainly appreciate it you would proof read it afterwards
[15:14] <scott-work> holstein: what do you know about team reports
[15:14] <scott-work> ?
[15:15] <ailo> scott-work, Of course :). I will do my best with making it readable English. I will need someone who speaks English natively to double-check, though
[15:15] <holstein> well, i helped AKgraner do ours for our loco once
[15:15] <holstein> its been a LONG time though
[15:15] <holstein> AND, it could be differnt for us i suppose
[15:16] <holstein> they are monthly too?
[15:16] <holstein> ailo: i can do that
[15:16] <holstein> just hit me up
[15:16] <holstein> ailo: hello by the way
[15:16] <ailo> hi holstein 
[15:20] <holstein> scott-work: looks like we need one for april and may right?
[15:23] <scott-work> holstein: probably so and yes, they are montly
[15:23] <scott-work> we will also need to update the "current" one, that is, the one with current in the link
[15:23] <holstein> scott-work: im making april and may stubs
[15:24]  * holstein looking for current
[15:24]  * scott-work is finding his links
[15:25] <scott-work> main ubuntu studio team reports page:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamReports
[15:25] <scott-work> the "current" team report:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamReports/Current
[15:25] <scott-work> this shows up on the master team report page via an <<include LINK>> on that page, this way the link is always current
[15:25] <holstein> AH, of course
[15:26] <holstein> i was in /11/Current looking around ;)
[15:26] <scott-work> apparently, this was the last one that i had worked on or finished (don't remember):  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamReports/11/March
[15:26] <scott-work> it's not very formatted per their instructions, it just followed a form that i derived
[15:26] <scott-work> please feel free to change forms
[15:27] <holstein> scott-work: where are thier instructions?
[15:27] <scott-work> our TeamReports has the only instructions we were given, so reference them 
[15:27] <holstein> and do we turn it in?
[15:27] <scott-work> we don't as far as i know
[15:27] <holstein> OK
[15:27] <scott-work> they get it from the /Current one i believe
[15:27] <holstein> so, its probably cool to just follow what you had goind on
[15:27] <holstein> going*
[15:28] <holstein> formatting-wise
[15:28] <holstein> its nice and clean
[15:34] <scott-work> or change it if you think something works better :)
[15:34] <scott-work> holstein: did you see what i'm dorking with for the landing page for the user documentation?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox#help.ubuntu.com%20landing%20page
[15:34] <scott-work> ignore the colors at this point
[15:35] <holstein> looking good
[15:35] <holstein> i like the 2nd header there too
[15:36] <scott-work> i'm still playing with the general format, including borders or not, playing with line weights, line types,
[15:36] <scott-work> i think i can include the sidebar into the main body part so it doesn't seem to be so detached, but so that it just seems to contain slightly different content
[15:37] <scott-work> holstein: that header was something that i was dorking with for a while, i don't like colors anymore but it's certainly a start
[15:37] <scott-work> although i think we could even make it more unobstrusive be eliminating the "ubuntu studio header" area :P
[15:38] <holstein> good point
[15:48] <scott-work> new iteration of help.ubuntu.com page:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox#help.ubuntu.com%20landing%20page
[15:51] <scott-work> not only did i manage to get the sidebar into the main body section i was playing around with different types of headings in the body
[16:18] <scott-work> hi falktx :)
[16:18] <falktx> hey
[16:18] <scott-work> you are a building guy today
[16:19] <falktx> building guy?
[16:20] <scott-work> you've been pushing releases for kxstudio today
[16:20] <scott-work> building packages :P
[16:21] <falktx> yes
[16:21] <falktx> lots of errors though
[16:22] <falktx> I'm trying to push the latest lilv, serd, sord, suil stuff too, so qtractor 0.4.9 can be build
[16:23] <falktx> also mumble+jack, which has some issues too
[16:23] <falktx> it's tricky
[16:23] <falktx> scott-work: sorry about those mails...
[16:33] <falktx> sorry my network is just too bad, I'll be offline
[16:36] <scott-work> i don't even know what lilv, serd,sord, and suil are :(
[16:36] <scott-work> but the kxstudio emails don't bother me
[17:11] <astraljava> o/
[19:19] <scott-work> another iteration of the user documentation landing page:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox
[19:19] <scott-work> holstein: ailo ^^^
[19:19] <scott-work> give me your honest impressions and thoughts
[19:19] <scott-work> tell me it sucks if that's what you think
[19:20] <ailo> scott-work, I like the colors, but I don't think it's easy to read
[19:25] <scott-work> ailo: do you think it is difficult to read because of the colors?  the text size? other reasons?
[19:26] <scott-work> i have trouble reading the new help.ubuntu.com pages anyways because of the font or the size or the background or the combination of all three!
[19:26] <scott-work> for example, this page is difficult to read without any formatting:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox/Header
[19:27] <ailo> scott-work, I agree. The new Ubuntu default style is pretty poor, even after they improved it a bit
[19:28] <ailo> scott-work, On your page, I think the text is not sorted. It looks like a lot of text. I think it needs bigger headings, more space, that sort of thing
[19:28] <ailo> And I wouldn't mind creating a couple of more colored boxes
[19:28] <scott-work> ailo: agreed, i tried using the default spacings and it doesn't really look quite organized
[19:28] <scott-work> ailo: we could totally do that!
[19:29] <scott-work> i would like to do that and most people have not liked it before so i shy away from it now :/
[19:29] <scott-work> i did play with underlining headings and making them bolder, which was probably the best result anyways
[19:30] <ailo> I think you can skip most of the text too
[19:30] <ailo> At least on the front page
[19:31] <ailo> Just keep the headers as links and maybe just a one line description
[19:31] <ailo> Really shorten it up. Make it more compact
[19:32] <ailo> Don't think we can decide on what Headers/Links there should be yet, but you could still work on the design idea
[19:35] <scott-work> try it now (but i didn't remove most of the text yet)
[19:40] <scott-work> ailo: most of the links are dummy links, i just added two somewhat related capitalized words together so that it would show up as a link, if you clicked it it would take to you a blank wiki page
[19:41] <scott-work> ailo: but would you object to moving forward with the headers as shown?  i understand that we probably will be changing them as we progress, but at least this gives us a place to link to and from
[19:42] <ailo> scott-work, It looks better now, but I would still want to ditch most of the text in favor of just keeping Topics as links
[19:42] <ailo> And maybe a one-line description for each Topic
[19:42] <ailo> I don't know any good examples from the top of my head, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to look around a little
[19:44] <scott-work> ailo: i agree with making the descriptions short and i will
[19:45] <ailo> scott-work, I think it would be nice to be able to see most of it in one window. And different topics could have different coloring perhaps
[19:46] <ailo> Maybe some topics belong together?
[19:46] <ailo> And then they could be in a box of it's own
[19:46] <ailo> Sort of like you have done with the misc panel
[20:29] <scott-work> reading backscroll
[20:29] <scott-work> ailo: sorry, had people coming to my desk for a while
[20:29] <scott-work> yeah, i agree that seeing it in one window would be good
[20:30] <scott-work> do you think that some of the topics would belong together?
[20:30] <scott-work> i'm thinking that most of the heading would be greatly diverse, unless we backed up pretty far and used very gross categorizations
[20:30] <scott-work> like Info    Usage    Support
[20:31] <scott-work> if we moved hardware under installation we could also move optimization under there as well
[20:31] <scott-work> or we could group them together in a colored box
[20:32] <scott-work> i imagine that there will be some redundancy, not necessarily of information but possibly links to that information
[20:59] <scott-work> hi thomashc :)
[20:59] <thomashc> hello scott-work 
[21:31] <ailo> scott-work, I really don't know about the categorization yet, but I know I'd like something simple and clean. It's a help page right? It's a portal to information. I can't think further than that right now without getting a little dizzy. That's why I want to start compiling some basic material first
[23:11] <astraljava> Anyone else have problems with playing flash videos with sound after the latest update? This on AMD64.
[23:37] <iHaku> Did I miss any important discussions in IRC?  My connection has been out for a little while.
[23:48] <ScottL> ailo_, would you like to brainstorm which pages we think we need?  we can record them on the sandbox page
[23:48] <holstein> ScottL: im tied up with a few things for a bit
[23:48] <holstein> but, i still should be able to knock out the reports by the weekend :)
[23:48] <ScottL> ailo_, maybe then we would be able to discren a pattern and derive some headings
[23:48] <ScottL> oh good, holstein  :)