[00:10] <niemeyer> Okay, I'm heading to Porto Alegre tonight..
[00:10] <niemeyer> I'll see you guys tomorrow!
[01:16] <hazmat>   jimbaker go for it
[01:36] <jimbaker> hazmat, thanks
[01:44] <_mup_> ensemble/trunk r251 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com
[01:44] <_mup_> merge expose-hook-commands [r=niemeyer][f=767405]
[01:44] <_mup_> Implements open-port and close-port hook commands.
[08:08] <_mup_> ensemble/set-transitions r234 committed by bcsaller@gmail.com
[08:08] <_mup_> add service to HookScheduler in tests
[08:08] <_mup_> ensemble/set-transitions r235 committed by bcsaller@gmail.com
[08:08] <_mup_> merge trunk
[14:13] <niemeyer> Morning lads
[15:16] <kim0> niemeyer: thanks for chmining in to the mediawiki thread :) I hope it does get them interested!
[15:17] <niemeyer> kim0: Indeed!
[15:17] <niemeyer> kim0: and np, good to see that kind of activity going on, thanks
[15:17] <kim0> yeah
[16:22] <niemeyer> Heading to lunch.. will be off to put the laptop in the safe.
[16:22] <niemeyer> biab
[16:44] <jimbaker> nice, a student working with me on jython had a talk accepted for the jvm language summit: http://openjdk.java.net/projects/mlvm/jvmlangsummit/agenda.html
[16:44] <jimbaker> (that would be shashank at the univ of colorado)
[17:46] <_mup_> ensemble/set-transitions r236 committed by bcsaller@gmail.com
[17:46] <_mup_> change count on wait_for_hook in test_lifecycle
[17:59] <_mup_> ensemble/standardize-log-testing r251 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com
[17:59] <_mup_> Removed save_logging from test_status, using capture_logging instead
[17:59] <_mup_> ensemble/standardize-log-testing r252 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com
[17:59] <_mup_> Merged trunk
[18:06] <_mup_> ensemble/standardize-log-testing r253 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com
[18:06] <_mup_> Refactor to use our cooperative inheritance convention in test_status
[18:48] <SpamapS> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2011/06/msg00316.html
[18:48] <SpamapS> "please be aware that I'm planning on orphaning ZooKeeper in the next days."
[18:51] <SpamapS> His reasoning is a little.. weird.
[18:51] <SpamapS> http://berlinbuzzwords.de/sites/berlinbuzzwords.de/files/thomas_koch_zookeeper.pdf
[18:52] <SpamapS> PMD is "Project Mess Detector" .. pretty cool way to parse out code and find bad coding practices.. and PMD thinks Zookeeper sucks.
[18:57] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Woah!
[18:57] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Man.. :-)
[18:57] <hazmat> SpamapS, some of the internal implementation on zk are a bit weak
[18:57] <hazmat> as far as style
[18:58] <hazmat> multi K conditional structures
[18:58] <SpamapS> I'm responding that we will be happy to adopt ZK.
[18:58] <niemeyer> Yeah, it definitely isn't a dream..
[18:58] <niemeyer> Still, there are tens of thousands of servers relying on it
[18:58] <niemeyer> Without anything better to rely on
[18:59] <hazmat> yeah.. battle tested production beats most anything else
[18:59] <niemeyer> Give us something better and we'll shift!
[18:59] <SpamapS> Sometimes in order to achieve your short term goals you have to take on technical debt.
[18:59] <niemeyer> :)
[18:59] <niemeyer> Doozer is promising, but not there yet
[19:03] <niemeyer> "Live is too short for crap." is the final sentence in the slide..
[19:04] <niemeyer> Ok.. let's publish this and watch it burn.
[19:13] <jimbaker> bcsaller, hazmat, niemeyer - standup?
[19:14] <niemeyer> jimbaker: I'm up for skipping it today in favor of pushing things forward.
[19:14] <niemeyer> I'll also have a short day today, and want to finish a review before I'm off
[19:14] <jimbaker> niemeyer, that works for me.  i need something to eat badly right now :)
[19:16] <_mup_> ensemble/set-transitions r237 committed by bcsaller@gmail.com
[19:16] <_mup_> include config.yaml and default config-changed hook
[19:16] <jimbaker> bcsaller, hazmat - is that ok for you to skip standup today?
[19:17]  * jimbaker looks at the door, thinking "sandwich"
[19:17] <bcsaller> fine for me
[19:17] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Enjoy
[19:17] <jimbaker> ok, sounds good :)
[19:22]  * hazmat does a hop and skip
[19:22] <hazmat> niemeyer, jimbaker, bcsaller you guys see about the new guy (ensemble devops) mark?
[19:23] <niemeyer> hazmat: see about?
[19:23] <hazmat> niemeyer, see the email about
[19:24] <niemeyer> hazmat: Sorry, I don't understand what you mean.  I can see several emails about Mark.
[19:25] <hazmat> niemeyer, i just saw the one..  i didn't realize that was an open position
[19:26] <hazmat> thomas's presentation is pretty well informed
[19:26] <niemeyer> hazmat: I still don't know what email you're talking about, but yeah, he's going to join the server team
[19:27] <niemeyer> hazmat: Really?
[19:27] <niemeyer> hazmat: To me it felt very silly
[19:27] <hazmat> niemeyer, he notes its good points and its bad points... i agree the zk code has a bad smell
[19:28] <hazmat> and attempts to improve that have been stymied for the quoted reason
[19:29] <niemeyer> hazmat: Oh, sure, he makes some good points that there are things to be cleaned up in ZK's code base.
[19:30] <niemeyer> hazmat: Most of his points are based on a static analysis tool.
[19:30] <niemeyer> hazmat: and then mentions things like "feature bloat" => "multi-update command in the works for half a year"
[19:31] <niemeyer> hazmat: Then, mentions "horrible concurrency", and points fingers saying they don't use the Java pattern for concurrency du-jour
[19:31] <niemeyer> Much better! Actors!
[19:31] <niemeyer> Seriously.. it's a terrible analysis.
[19:32] <niemeyer> I don't understand how he can be running his stuff on the Linux kernel still.
[19:33] <SpamapS> He's caught the java bug
[19:33] <niemeyer> Yes, I agree, the code looks ugly
[19:33] <SpamapS> the one that infects your brain with "yes, it can be perfect"
[19:33] <niemeyer> Yes, I agree, I don't like coding/reading Java.
[19:33] <hazmat> the linux kernel patches are reviewed for maintainability.
[19:34] <hazmat> i don't mind, but the zk code reads like a c program in several places (request processor dispatch for example)
[19:34] <niemeyer> hazmat: Heh.. have a look at how the Linux kernel looked like a few years ago
[19:34] <SpamapS> Ultimately the linux kernel's maintainability and longevity can be attributed to the amount of shame laid upon those who submit bad patches. :)
[19:35] <niemeyer> Anyway, enough ranting..
[19:35] <niemeyer> The code isn't great.  There's nothing better.
[19:36] <SpamapS> Right, I'm thinking we should take over maintenance, or request the debian java team to adopt it.
[19:36] <niemeyer> Now go watch this and relax: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AYEgwwCYWw
[19:37]  * SpamapS <hearts> rock + classical instruments
[20:58] <niemeyer> Re. the ZooKeeper rant: http://markmail.org/message/4dzk5osxssaibirt
[22:35] <niemeyer> In the end the review took longer than expected..
[22:35] <niemeyer> It's delivered though
[22:35] <niemeyer> jimbaker: You've got some feedback there
[22:40] <niemeyer> I'll step out for dinner.. have a good weekend folks
[23:29] <_mup_> ensemble/set-transitions r238 committed by bcsaller@gmail.com
[23:29] <_mup_> resolve divergent branch issue