[00:33] snap-l: ouch, I know my boss has issues where the mic only works if plugged in during boot [00:39] mic troubles? [01:40] sounds like dbus is screwy [01:49] Sommething [01:50] seems that the hardware shows up, but not the mic device [01:50] Not sure what the heck is going on [01:50] snap-l: sometimes it hides. i did a post on it a while ago [01:51] about half way down this http://clusterbleep.net/blog/2010/07/13/webcam-recording-using-vlc-on-linux/ [01:56] <_stink_> snap-l: i have something like that on lucid, too [03:48] snap-l: that is why, most people in this world are extraneous [12:21] Heh... clusterbleep.net? Cute. [12:34] morning [12:34] party ;-) [12:53] http://xkcd.com/910/ top 5 xkcd ever [12:54] He should name the server Epidural... [12:54] lol, I totaly agree [13:10] snap-l: you've been replaced by an HTML5 app :( http://ow.ly/5eIjF [13:13] it does work better in FF [13:24] brousch: Are we going back to the days of "this site designed to be viewed with..."? [13:25] greg-g: Need some context for that "22:47 < greg-g> snap-l: that is why, most people in this world are extraneous [13:25] comment [13:26] Wolfger: did we ever really leave it? [13:29] brousch: I haven't seen one of those web buttons in years... Most sites at least make an attempt at supporting multiple browsers. [13:30] well google's guitar only worked in chrome yesterday. for drums you need FF [13:30] We were starting to get out of it. The major thing is browsers need to be developed in a manner that support a web design standard. [13:31] Google's guitar worked just fine on my FF browser [13:31] brousch: I used Chrome, and got it working. [13:31] snap-l: the timing is off in chrome [13:33] http://www.randomthink.net/labs/html5drums/#10100010101001110000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001010101010101010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000010000000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|140 [13:33] On mine it's worse under FF. [13:34] Ah, for creating it works better under Chrome [13:34] playback, it works better under FF. [13:34] i had no issues under FF with creation or playback [13:34] but i'm on osx [13:35] chrome playback is pretty much garbage for me [13:35] No, playback works fine, just the | isn't recognized as a valid symbol for a link [13:35] Well, you need to use a real OS for Chrome. ;) [13:38] My name is Joey, webmaster of a number of sites and I'm currently working on promoting a number of sites you might find interesting. [13:38] It concerns link exchange for our mutual benefit and long term improvement of both of our Google rankings. [13:38] The purpose of my email is as follow; I am searching for sites such as openmetalcast.com to do business with because I think I can provide you with a great 3way link exchange proposal. [13:38] booh, 3 way [13:39] ooh that is [13:39] Oh wow, can I get on your WebRing too? [13:39] (fucking SEO spammers" [13:41] It's 90's internet all over again [13:47] http://www.randomthink.net/labs/html5drums/#10101011101010100000000000000000000000000100100000000000000000000000100000001000000000001000000010000000000000000000000000000000000100000001000101000100010001001000110000000000001000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000|180 [13:47] i could do this all day [13:54] hm, how would i record this? plug headphone jack into mic? [14:07] brousch: You'd love Hydrogen [14:07] or LMMS [14:09] those free? [14:09] Yeah [14:09] are you trying to kill my whole weekend? [14:10] I've also use MuSE and Rosegarden in the past, but I think LMMS is nicer, overall [14:10] brousch: Muhahahaha [14:10] hydrogen looks nice [14:10] Yeha, though it's only a drum machine [14:10] but a very nice drum machine [14:10] It's not free, but FruityLoops is a nice program [14:10] wish there was more integration to LMMS [14:11] wow, lmms looks nice too [14:11] Lledargo: Not having used FruityLoops, LMMS (I'm told) is quite similar. [14:11] I liked the idea of using Rosegarden to compose music, but it never quite worked... [14:11] I have never used LMMS, but I can believe it [14:11] what's with this slick gui? i was expecting curses and command line [14:11] http://lmms.sourceforge.net/ [14:12] brousch: It's my current go-to software for when I have a creative itch [14:13] i will pull out the old linux laptop and try it this weekend [14:14] snap-l: yeah, on their hompage LMMS says that it is an open source solution for FL studio(professional version of fruityloops) [14:14] Lledargo: The only pro software I've used was Cakewalk back in the 1990s [14:15] Everything else has been OSS [14:15] So claims like "It's like FL" are taken with a grain of salt, like "OpenOffice replaces Microsoft Office" [14:16] think of it the other way round then, FL is a closed source solution to LMMS ;) [14:17] Because there's one thing that I've learned from creative professionals; they love to abuse their tools to the point where nothing but the original will do [14:17] Lledargo: WFM. ;) [14:20] I think I'm going to title my MUG talk "So You've Got Natty: Successfully coping with Ubuntu's latest distribution". [14:20] nice [14:22] snap-l: i'm making you famous on the twitters [14:23] I think last time I tried LMMS it wasn't very useful without FL because it didn't come with any Sound Fonts, it was expected you'd import some from FL [14:24] well snap-l has more musical talent in his toenail clippings than i have in my whole body, so i think it'll be plenty powerful enough for me [14:24] Um, sure. [14:25] I just play drums. I have no concepts of harmony or melody. [14:25] lmms might be the key to getting my wife to switch to linux [14:25] i have no idea what the difference between harmony and melody are [14:38] anyone know what happened to pam_env [14:47] * snap-l is getting back into bug reporting [14:47] good time :P [14:47] Yeah, a thrill a minute. [14:48] working with non-linuxy people is so hard [14:48] "I can't change all that sql to lowercase, it'd take for ever!" [14:48] umm... guG [14:48] ? [14:48] snap-l: i'm gonna get that lmms and hydrogen working tonight. we're going to a graduation party for a kid whose into music and glee club and such so i think a bunch of his friends would like it [14:49] Awesome! [14:54] Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that "Safely Remove Drive" wouldn't remove a drive that was currently having files copied to it [14:57] you are wrong. [14:57] at least in XP I think you are wrong. [14:57] it would sync and unmount and the copy would fail. [14:58] I thought it stopped file transfer, not disallowed removing a drive that was doing file operations [14:58] oh, I was beat to it [14:58] i haven't used "safely remove" in years :) [15:02] "safely remove" always fails for me if the drive is in use in any fashion [15:02] I mean under a real OS. :) [15:02] Ubuntu. ;) [15:03] Ubu-what? [15:05] Sit, Ubu, sit. Good OS. [15:13] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL0cII74YYs [15:56] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6308018/performance-implications-of-using-spaces-instead-of-tabs-for-indentation [15:56] ok, so we're entering laugh at people friday [15:58] \o/ [15:58] Seriously? [15:59] * Lledargo is laughing on the outside, but crying on the inside. [15:59] I need 125 reputation so I can vote this into oblivion [15:59] ++ [16:03] Hmm... Why do I no longer have an account? [16:03] I know I finally caved and got an account for AskUbuntu. I even accrued some rep [16:04] now it's saying no account at my e-mail address. :-( [16:04] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6308018/performance-implications-of-using-spaces-instead-of-tabs-for-indentation/6308219#6308219 [16:05] It's questions like those that make me fear for the future [16:07] Unless you're reading data from a NFS share over a 28.8 modem from a server in BFE with 26 hops, and a latency of a microwave transmission to Mars, you're probably going to be fine. [16:11] but but but, think of the bits man! [16:14] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5659360/why-should-you-avoid-the-then-keyword-in-ruby [16:15] I would tend to agree... [16:15] is anyone familiar with page-rendering pipeline differences in IE9 vs chrome? [16:15] "then" is useless [16:15] * rick_h_ cries as he changes a user's password from gjC8kTNnP5 to Secret1 [16:16] I have an app that does a full page refresh when navigating from page to page. IE9 seems to hide the fact that you're refreshing the page, since it does it so fast [16:16] chrome and ff show a nice big white page between page changes [16:16] just that IE9 is all hardware now [16:16] not sure on the actual pipeline/render changes [16:17] I think chrome/etc do hardware accelerated of bits [16:17] but I thought IE was moving all rendering to hardware? [16:17] maybe. i was wondering if it was a difference between IE9 rendering in a streaming fashion vs chrome waiting for all the content [16:35] Huh... apparently my spamhaus config gor removed during my postfix upgrade [16:35] Wondered why I had more spam coming through [16:38] Thank you, whomever voted me up. :) [16:50] Maybe the iPad just sucks? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6308784/app-store-screenshots-looks-blurry-on-ipad-whats-going-on [16:56] Hmm... Well, they spend more time coding than anything else.... ;-) http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/82995/what-percentage-of-time-should-be-non-programming [16:56] (yes, I'm bored, why do you ask?) [17:03] God, Programming.stachexchange is the worst for those navelgazing questions [17:04] sorry, programmers. [17:05] http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/83038/qa-bugs-poor-programmers <- rick_h_, here you go. [17:05] I'm afraid to click ... [17:05] I can hear the shotgun [17:05] * rick_h_ closes without reading any of the comments, the question was more than enough [17:08] snap-l: LOL. I was just reading that same one... [17:09] That question boiled down to "It's not my fault! Right?" [18:17] Argh, JoDee just told me that Borders in Birmingham is closing [18:17] dum da dum dum! [18:18] thanks, rick_h_ now i have the dungeon music from mario3 in my head [18:19] http://www.detnews.com/article/20110610/BIZ/106100340/1001/Borders-puts-local-stores-on-closing-list [18:19] It's on notice, apparently. [18:20] I hope it doesn't, but damnit, I'm getting sick of having my favorite stores close. [18:24] well maybe if you'd spent more money there ... [18:26] it's like church [18:26] what's the current tithe rate for a borders? [18:27] I've been tithing my little ass off there. [18:30] binbrain: python slots? [18:30] how do i distribute an app to iphone users without using the apple app store? is that even possible? [18:30] brousch: web! [18:31] It's easy [18:31] first everyone jailbreaks their phone [18:31] jrwren: yea, way to limit the __dict__ of an object by declaring which attrib a python object will have [18:31] i have web, but camera integration would be better with native app [18:31] you can't then add/extend it [18:31] then, they download your app, and figure out how to install [18:31] voila, your app is now their #1 favorite. [18:31] but it can be about 4 or 5x memory improvement to go to a namedtuple under the hood vs a dict [18:32] this app is for barcampgr, so it's not like it needs to be available to the world [18:32] brousch: no side install without rooting [18:32] and doubt you'll have people rooting [18:32] that is so weak [18:32] no, "that is so apple" [18:33] i suppose if a couple other barcamps picked up the app, and i charged $2, i could make back the $99 fee [18:34] or get someone who's already paid the fee to submit it for you? [18:34] hm, yeah, maybe i can get someone from one of the local tech companies [18:34] good idea [18:35] jrwren: special method __slots__ = ('var1', 'var2') allows you to limit class attributes to var1 and var2, its a performance optimizer, but often seen it used in as a way to make the class adhere as if it was limited by an interface [18:36] it's like private final or whatever [18:36] don't do it, one day someone will want/need to change things [18:36] private? [18:37] brousch: there's an sdk of some kind to do it, a lot of middleware phone managements solutions offer something for it. I'm not sure how it functions maybe tied to the now defunct mobile me? [18:37] I don't think it has an implications that are similar to private or final [18:38] krondor: i think there is some sort of enterprise app deployment thing, but it costs big $ [18:39] so basically, there is a developer here that likes to uses slots in all his classes. w.o any reason, ie, performance [18:40] brousch: no doubt [18:44] binbrain: just that it locks the class down [18:45] but yea, ugh for guys that just do that for fun [18:46] Also, you have to keep submitting the $99 fee every year. [18:50] http://www.jwz.org/blog/2011/06/dali-clock-no-longer-available-in-app-store-this-time-for-sure/ [18:54] I'm so glad I have a google Alert for "open metalcast" [18:55] otherwise I'd miss out that Saginaw is having some metalcasting thing-a-ma-jobbie. [18:56] so informative [18:59] so if i have python slots the runtime throws if I try to add a new attr that doesn't have a slot? [19:00] jrwren: yea [19:00] Yay, got some CDs in the mail from one of the artists I've played on OMC. [19:00] i would like that, I think :) [19:01] jrwren: why [19:01] its closer to static typing. [19:01] http://paste.mitechie.com/show/338/ [19:02] oop, did that wrong. bah I don't use it [19:02] i know the attr is still dyn typed, but at least I have control over the shape of my objects. [19:02] Again, it depends [19:03] jrwren: I'm not sure what pretend static typing accomplishes though [19:03] I can see where it would be useful to arbitrarily define variables against a class, but I can see where that might be a royal pain [19:03] feels warm/fuzzy [19:03] it's the python way [19:03] flexible [19:04] "pretend static typing"? That would be dynamic typing. That's extremely useful! :-) [19:04] One way I could see it being useful is if someone did a dick-move on your class that you don't want them to do. ;) [19:05] snap-l: lol [19:10] snap-l: funny you put it like that, but that's in a way what it amounts to, "I don't trust the other developers so I'm going to control how the instances look like" [19:10] Yeah, that's what I see as the reason for things like private, etc. [19:11] sometimes justified, but more than often way too paranoid [19:12] I have no problem with conventions like underscore in Python _private_var [19:12] * Wolfger ponders "more than often" [19:14] binbrain: I don't either. I think they're brilliant. [19:14] They're awesome because they implicitly say "here be dragons", and then give you a map and a torch [19:15] but what if its a dragon doing a duck impersonation [19:16] I bet nobody got that, I need to get back to work anyways [19:16] If the dragon wants to be a duck, and can walk like a duck, then it's a duck. ;) [19:16] * snap-l just got a very strange image in his head. [19:22] transspecies dragon-duck conversion? [19:39] ahhh! damn you nosetest, guess i should of known better though [19:39] didn't realize that it silently kills your loggers [19:46] yea [19:46] nosetests --with-id -v -s -x --with-pylons test_psql.ini is my normal call [19:46] thought it still does some tweaking I think [19:53] nose test? [19:54] nose == unit test runner for python [19:54] very odd name [19:55] I would think "snake test" or some such for Python. Or "Monty test". [19:56] circus test, even [19:57] flask is fun [20:02] bwuhahaha, I love it when the guy that doesn't want postgres because he's afraid of change goes "but but but...I neeed this very hard thing..." [20:02] and I can go "boom done, query updated, go try it. Next!" [20:03] you know, I was reluctant to change to PostgreSQL [20:03] it was just just different enough [20:03] but I'm glad I made the switch. Now it feels like I have a real database on my machine [20:03] man, I just whipped our arrays on him. Bwuhahahaha [20:04] Also, if you don't like change, you're in the wrong profession [20:04] I like stable, but change is good [20:04] yea, this is all because his mysql crap is causing servers to go boom. They've corrupted the whole db twice in trying to dev the thing [20:04] ugh [20:05] my boss is starting to get impressed and convinced so I'm starting to feel cracks in the anti-change postgres wall [20:05] InnoDB is very fragile [20:05] Not MongoDB fragile, but still fragine [20:05] fragile, even [20:05] lol [20:40] binbrain: it lets me fail faster, rather than keep running if something that was supposed to work isn't working. [20:40] e.g. the fat fingered attr setter invokation [20:47] I never have problems with fat fingering, I use pyflakes [20:48] failure is quickly identified during test time [20:48] what is that? [20:48] highlights vars that don't belong. Never used before, etc [20:48] cool [20:49] helps with the typos since you say foo = barz and barz is highlighted as never init'd before [20:50] Yeah, pyflakes is awesome. [20:50] It catches a lot of dingbat mistakes. [21:11] http://fukung.net/v/40275/c56601f86f88fd4d33082916056904f6.gif [21:17] rick_h_: do you have any idea what the topic is for next week's MUG? [21:18] nevermind. [21:20] snap-l: sorry, was away most of today. The context for that comment I left you was the people who cut down the tree to steal a bike (and then leave the bike behind) [21:21] greg-g: Yeah, that was utter crap