[00:27] <ScottL> weee
[00:28]  * TheMuso fixes studio installability issue.
[00:31] <ScottL> which issues are those TheMuso ?
[00:31] <TheMuso> The issue that gets emailed to the dev list daily, where ubuntustudio-generation is not installable.
[00:32]  * TheMuso is about to send a message about that to the dev list.
[00:32]  * holstein thanks TheMuso :)
[00:32] <TheMuso> Downside is that you lose gcdmaster.
[00:32] <ScottL> TheMuso, persia thought it might held up in a queue somehow
[00:33] <holstein> how far gone?
[00:33] <ScottL> TheMuso, can you explain why it wasn't working correctly?
[00:33] <holstein> well, its been broken for a while, but we need something like that
[00:33] <ScottL> gcdmaster and cdrdao are both built from the same source
[00:33] <holstein> a cd architect type thing
[00:33] <persia> Hrm?  I said there were lots of reasons and someone should investigate, rather than just waiting.
[00:33] <ScottL> oh, i misunderstood then, my apologies
[00:34] <persia> Or I was unclear.  Sorry.
[00:34] <ScottL> i'm still confused why gcdmaster wouldn't be installable however and would be curious to learn how it wasn't working
[00:35] <persia> Presumably it's still not working, so you could test in an oneiric chroot/vm.
[00:35] <persia> `aptitude why-not ${PACKAGE}` sometimes explains.
[00:35] <TheMuso> gcdmaster is not installable because gcdmaster is built from cdrdao source, and the latest cdrdao upload gets rid of the gcdmaster package, and the gcdmaster package has a hard build dependency on cdrdao.
[00:36] <TheMuso> Hard runtime dependency even, requiring exact versioning.
[00:36] <TheMuso> I explained in more detail in an email to the dev list.
[00:39] <holstein> i would love to be able to step up and maintain it
[00:39] <holstein> i bet i could talk falk into maintaining it
[00:40] <TheMuso> Its written in C++.
[00:41] <holstein> is that good?
[00:41] <ScottL> TheMuso, i would presume that the fix is to patch the control file to remove the versioned dependency?
[00:41] <TheMuso> ScottL: No, thats not correct.
[00:42] <TheMuso> The fix is to fix gcdmaster to not depend on the legacy libraries.
[00:42] <TheMuso> As I said in the mail.
[00:42] <holstein> yeah, gnome2 is going away
[00:42] <ScottL> right, i should read the email...soryy :)
[00:42] <ScottL> oh, i didn't realize it was a gnome2 dependency
[00:44] <ScottL> read the email now
[00:51] <ScottL> falktx, say something
[00:53] <falktx> hey what?
[00:54] <ScottL> oh darn, this was the wrong channel, i was trying to get you to trigger thelonious in #opensourcemusicians :P
[00:56] <falktx> oh
[02:42] <falktx> ScottL: I replaced applications.menu with only the <remove> stuff
[02:42] <falktx> ScottL: then I added a new file, ubuntustudio-multimedia.menu, which has also the <remove> stuff with <insert> apps too
[02:43] <ScottL> why do we need the <remove> stuff in both .menu files?
[02:43] <ScottL> and can you explain why this is better than what we have?
[02:44] <ScottL> sorry, i admit that i'm actually ignorant about a lot of the menu
[02:44] <ScottL> falktx, ^^^
[02:44] <falktx> ScottL: we need this way in order to support all DEs
[02:45] <falktx> ScottL: the current US way is wrong and was only working on Gnome
[02:45] <falktx> s/was/is
[02:45] <ScottL> falktx, okay, _that_ i can wrap my head around
[02:45] <ScottL> lol "we're doing it wrong" ;)
[02:46] <falktx> ScottL: well, the current implementation copies gnome's application.menu file and hacks it
[02:46] <falktx> the proper way is to have a file in /etc/xdg/menus/applications-merged/
[02:47] <falktx> that's how wine does and does it well
[02:47] <ScottL> falktx, is there a place in the freedesktop.org website that you learned this from?  i wish to learn more about menus
[02:48] <falktx> ScottL: I basically learned from a lot of testing, the freedesktop.org website is a mess... :(
[02:49] <ScottL> well that's kinda sad considering they are suppossed to define the convention or standard
[02:49] <ScottL> falktx, did you remove the extra applicaitons?
[02:49] <falktx> anyway, my little patch creates a specific US file in /etc/xdg/menus/applications-merged/ (which should be enough), then add some additional <removes> in other places to handle gnome and xfce
[02:52] <ScottL> sorry, cooking late dinner for me and kids
[02:55] <falktx> ScottL: i hope this is clear enough
[03:00] <ScottL> falktx, i'll look at it and ask more questions if necessary
[03:00] <ScottL> falktx,  but i really will try to look at it tonight
[03:00] <falktx> thanks
[03:24] <ScottL> falktx, that patch you linked on sunday, is that against the current u/s-menu?  version 0.32 or whatever?
[03:25] <falktx> ScottL: yes
[03:25] <falktx> I mean, latest code
[03:25] <ScottL> right, okay
[04:14] <scott-upstairs> falktx, how can i tell if this menu is really installed when i still have ubuntustudi-menu still installed?
[04:15] <scott-upstairs> i'm surprised you are still up, aren't you like +6 hours from me?
[04:15] <scott-upstairs> you may not be anymore
[04:15] <falktx> 4h15 am here
[04:15] <falktx> scott-upstairs: the menu structure is not changed, so you won't notice unless you use xfce
[04:16] <scott-upstairs> so if i was on xfce and installed ubuntustudio-menu it would be borked?
[04:16] <scott-upstairs> but your menu would work good?
[04:17]  * scott-upstairs can see that your files installed so i know it _is_ installed
[04:17] <scott-upstairs> but i'm on default ubuntustudio natty at the moments as well
[04:18] <falktx> hm?
[04:19] <scott-upstairs> sorry, that was two thoughts across for lines of text
[04:19] <scott-upstairs> i know that your menu installed because i can see the files under /usr/share/desktop-directories
[04:20] <scott-upstairs> "you won't notice unless you use xfce" you said
[04:20] <scott-upstairs> so, if i was running an xfce install (which i have but not on right now) and install ubuntustudio-menu it would look bad or be wrong somehow?
[04:20] <scott-upstairs> but if on xfce i installed your menu then it would look or perform correctly?
[04:21]  * falktx assumes "my menu" means US menu + patch
[04:22] <falktx> scott-upstairs: xfce multimedia stuff goes into the audio/video menu, but are not removed from the main multimedia menu
[04:22] <scott-upstairs> yes, that is what i meant, but really i just installed using your .deb file you linked
[04:22] <falktx> for example, ardour is shown in multimedia and multimedia/audio
[04:22] <falktx> scott-upstairs: oh, that old deb file?
[04:23] <falktx> scott-upstairs: that deb will "replace" the US-menu
[04:23] <scott-upstairs> uhhh, yeah.  should i not have used it?
[04:23] <scott-upstairs> oh, that's all i could find from the meeting :/
[04:23] <falktx> scott-upstairs: that old deb is not working currently
[04:23] <falktx> I updated my kx menu shortly to fix the xfce menu
[04:23] <scott-upstairs> it looked like it did but i don't have a multimedia menu
[04:24] <scott-upstairs> ack
[04:24] <falktx> you should remove it...
[04:24] <scott-upstairs> after installing that deb the menu looked the same but i could find installed files
[04:24] <scott-upstairs> right, will do that now
[04:24] <scott-upstairs> do you have a patch handy then?
[04:24] <scott-upstairs> to upgrade the ubuntustudio-menu that is
[04:24] <falktx> it's still the same file
[04:25] <falktx> scott-upstairs: you should get the latest us-menu code, patch it and rebuild the deb
[04:25] <scott-upstairs> how do i patch the us-menu source from your .deb then?
[04:26] <falktx> scott-upstairs: err, forget the deb
[04:26] <falktx> scott-upstairs: do you still have the link to the patch I sent you?
[04:27] <scott-upstairs> sorry, i'm tired, so a little slow perhaps...when did you send me the link?  was it in email?
[04:27] <falktx> no, here IRC
[04:27] <falktx> let me get it again
[04:27] <falktx> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/us-menu_xfce.patch
[04:28] <scott-upstairs> did you post in the #ubuntustudio-devel channel because i looked twice and did not see it #ubuntu-meeting :/
[04:30] <falktx> scott-upstairs: that patch was not made in the meeting but after
[04:30] <falktx> I did not had the code at that time, I only worked on time the next day
[04:31] <falktx> scott-upstairs: I sent that link to you some days ago, I guess you forgot...
[04:31] <falktx> but it's ok
[04:31] <scott-upstairs> i remembered there was a link, i just thought it was the one from the meeting though
[04:31] <falktx> nope
[04:32] <scott-upstairs> maybe it was in -devel in the next day or whenever
[04:32] <scott-upstairs> either way, i saved it and sent the link to myself in gmail
[04:32] <scott-upstairs> now i defintely have it
[04:33] <scott-upstairs> later (not tonight) i'll boot into xfce and build the menu with the patch and test it out
[04:33] <scott-upstairs> how borked is the u/s-menu without the patch?
[04:33] <scott-upstairs> is that what you meant the ardour is in two places, i.e. audio/vidoe menu and multimedia menu?
[04:34] <falktx> scott-upstairs: just as I described, ^ yes
[04:34] <scott-upstairs> okay, got it
[04:34] <scott-upstairs> i'll test is tomorrow night and hopefully push it this weekend then
[04:35] <falktx> thanks
[04:36] <scott-upstairs> wife's home now, gotta go
[04:36] <scott-upstairs> thanks falkx
[12:39]  * ckontros waves.
[13:53]  * ckontros "Pushed up to revision 78." for ubuntustudio-default-settings. Gonna try to get one of the Xubuntu guys to review this.
[14:01] <ckontros> \m/
[14:01] <Izo> Ola.
[14:02] <ckontros> Yo.
[14:02] <ckontros> ScotLt: 'round?
[14:02] <ckontros> Izo: Hopefully a little real-time might help focus things a little. ;)
[14:03] <ckontros> Grr... *ScottL ^^^ (i cant type)
[14:03] <Izo> Indeed! Such as, what does "wallpaper feels rigid in its etched part" mean? =D
[14:04] <ckontros> Izo, Well the HP walls feel like its color flowing in the wind. Over the bg.
[14:04] <scott-work> hi ckontros Izo 
[14:04]  * scott-work is checking irc logs see what he missed
[14:04] <ckontros> Nothing really.
[14:05] <Izo> Hi scott-wor =]
[14:05] <scott-work> cool
[14:05] <scott-work> are we talking about wallpaper?
[14:05] <Izo> The problem of definition here, I feel, is that you desire something airey and light, and ALSO something etched.
[14:05] <ckontros> Si
[14:05] <Izo> This is tricky. 
[14:06] <scott-work> using obscure words here, but can the etching be sublte?
[14:06] <ckontros> Izo: Yes, and yes. Art totally sucks. :P
[14:06] <scott-work> rather than a "deep" etching with lots of shadow to denote depth, can it be "shallower"
[14:07] <Izo> Aaahhhh, now I'm beginning to understand. 
[14:07] <Izo> Hmm...
[14:07] <scott-work> again, vague, unspecific words do denote a concept
[14:07] <scott-work> s/do/to
[14:07] <scott-work> ckontros: if this isn't what you envisioned please tell me to shut up ;)
[14:07] <ckontros> scott-work & Izo: Or, have that fine etched patter as a bg and some kinda color flowing over top?
[14:08] <ckontros> I mean, I don't wanna directly copy it, but have a similar feel.
[14:08] <scott-work> i had a thought....
[14:08] <Izo> OK, so perhaps...
[14:08] <Izo> A textured background, with freeflowing swirls.
[14:09] <Izo> Perhaps. 
[14:09] <scott-work> can we keep the river bit through the middle, but in the lower right corner make the ubuntu studio CoF slightly etched
[14:09] <Izo> scott-work: Could do that. 
[14:09] <ckontros> Izo: And really, if you wanna say: "Here, use this for a bit and I'll keep tinkering and make some killer shit later." I'm cool with that.
[14:09] <scott-work> and the CoF would perhaps either be a darker or lighter color than the background
[14:09] <scott-work> i wouldn't want the CoF to be obstrusive, just there if you look at it
[14:10] <ckontros> Scott-work: If we use a COF it will only be in LightDM, then dissappear once the wallpaper is loaded.
[14:10] <scott-work> we have had backgrounds before that were so busy that i couldn't see my icons on them and the first thing i did was change it to a dark, solid colour
[14:11] <scott-work> ckontros: oh, you don't want the CoF or perhaps the works "Ubuntu Studio" somewhere on the desktop, even unobstrusively?
[14:11] <scott-work> Or the letters "U" and "S" intertwined somewhow
[14:11] <scott-work> _some_ branding on the wallpaper?
[14:11] <Izo> I was given to understand that an US branding on the wallpaper was a no-no. 
[14:11] <ckontros> I generally steer clear from it if I can. Dont wanna be "brand-heavy".
[14:11] <scott-work> it's cory's call, he's art director ;)
[14:12] <ckontros> But, I'm flexiable for the right look. It would have to be tasteful and fix some technical perimeters.
[14:12] <scott-work> ckontros: that's why i was suggesting the lightly etched or perhaps faded is a better word...something that doesn't demand attention but you kinda "see" it
[14:12] <Izo> Sure thing. 
[14:13] <scott-work> and also positioned away from center focus
[14:13] <scott-work> but i'm good without it all too, that was just something i envisioned
[14:13] <ckontros> "technical perimeters" being: A 2560x1600 wall is 16:10. So when the wall is cropped to say 4:3 you can chop off the logo.
[14:14] <Izo> I note that a lot of those HP wallpapers ckontros linked me to featured the HP logo, but largely off to the right-hand side. 
[14:14] <Izo> As an example. 
[14:14] <ckontros> And the composition would still have to feel natural. TV shows do this.
[14:14] <ckontros> Izo: Yes.
[14:16] <scott-work> ckontros: i would like to suggest that we might ship other wallpapers that Izo has done as well
[14:16] <ckontros> Note that my branding use personally is contradictory though. For the distro it should be subtle. I made this for my personal use: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/UserContributed?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ubuntustudio_carbon.png
[14:17] <Izo> Yeah I agree that the distro default should be subtle, classy and refined, rather than "OMG YOU'RE USING UBUNTU STUDIO CHECK IT OUT DAWG!"
[14:17] <ckontros> ;)
[14:18] <ckontros> I just used the carbon fiber texture for GDM and the logo came in on desktop load.
[14:19] <ckontros> If wanted for any references: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork
[14:20] <Izo> Righto, I have a better idea of what to go for now. I have a couple of spare hours free this arvo, in between all the OTHER work I'm also doing, so should be able to knock a better proof of concept. =]
[14:21] <ckontros> Izo: And we greatly appreciate it. Now we need to find someone to take over the website development. As our guy is moving to Japan and will have no time. :(
[14:21] <Izo> Eeesh, major bummer. 
[14:21] <ckontros> Yeah
[14:22] <scott-work> lol Izo "OMG..."
[14:22] <ckontros> Izo: Music-wise, this is me: http://www.last.fm/user/_MMA_ :)
[14:23] <ckontros> scott-work: When does charlie usually pop in?
[14:23] <Izo> ckontros: Ah-haaa, most excellent. =] This is the band I'm in -> http://stitchthread.bandcamp.com/
[14:23] <scott-work> ckontros: i did an interview on Linux Outlaws and i'm getting emails about helping include at least one for website, i've already responded saying that we would like help two days ago, but no answer yet
[14:23] <scott-work> ckontros: he usually gets in around nine-ish almost everyday
[14:24] <ckontros> Bandcamp. Nice. I spent 8 hours on there last weekend. It was sick. So much downloading. :P Gotta love FLAC. \m/
[14:24] <Izo> Pretty much all of our stuff is free to download. =]
[14:24] <scott-work> Izo: i'll check that out, it is metal? or hardcore?
[14:24] <ckontros> scott-work: Oh hell. I didnt see him pop in. :)
[14:25] <scott-work> hah....
[14:25]  * ckontros clicks Izo's link.
[14:25] <Izo> scott-work: Kinda doomy, ambient post-metal with proggy twinges here and there. =]
[14:25] <ckontros> charlie-tca: Is mr-pouit in xubuntu-devel atm? Or, should I just email him?
[14:26] <charlie-tca> email him
[14:26]  * scott-work spent yesterday listening to depeche mode on youtube
[14:26] <charlie-tca> He has a really bad irc connection these days, up to 5 minutes lag time
[14:26]  * scott-work will probably spend today with slipknot though
[14:26] <ckontros> charlie-tca: Can you give me a preferred email addy?
[14:27] <charlie-tca> let me find it
[14:27] <ckontros> ty
[14:27] <ckontros> Izo: What do you play?
[14:27] <Izo> ckontros: Drums all the way. 
[14:27] <ckontros> Nice. I plan on buying my son a set this year. :)
[14:28] <Izo> Eeeeeexcellent.
[14:28] <ckontros> scott-work & Izo:Check out these guys: http://cloudkicker.bandcamp.com and http://reno.bandcamp.com
[14:29] <Izo> Cloudkicker is awesome, will have to check out Reno. 
[14:29] <ckontros> Yeah. "Beacons" grabbed me right away.
[14:29] <ckontros> Gotta buy the CDs.
[14:30] <charlie-tca> ckontros: the one he gives us is mrpouit AT ubuntu.com
[14:30] <ckontros> scott-work: Remember me talking about that donation to help the AWN guys get some work done?
[14:30] <ckontros> charlie-tca: Thanx
[14:31] <charlie-tca> no problem
[14:31] <scott-work> ckontros: sort of
[14:31] <scott-work> Izo: do you do any recording?  i _always_ need drums ;)
[14:31] <scott-work> ckontros: i just sketched something i want to send to you...it's a branding thingie
[14:32] <Izo> scott-work: Don't have any recording equipment of my own, unfortunately. 
[14:33] <ckontros> scott-work: Well, we need them to sort some depends work (thought we might be able to block things with a blacklist. hows that coming?) and add support for the XFCE menu in their menu plugin. So I asked if a donation would help. Always thats a yes. The guy I talked to said things would get done this cycle anyway as things I mentioned were already in the works. But Id like it done sooner than later.
[14:34] <ckontros> scott-work: Send it when you can.
[14:35] <ckontros> scott-work: And if you need a drummer, I got one if you can pay for it. ;) I know a guy that was in Dying Fetus, Chimaira, Daath, Six Feet Under. He's a hired gun basically.
[14:36] <scott-work> ckontros: email sent and this is me:  http://www.cirruscomms.com.au/~stuzz78/oggs/scottl-shit_for_brains.ogg
[14:36] <scott-work> not me on drums, but on everything else
[14:36] <ckontros> scott-work: Post the image to imageshack or something so Izo can see this here.
[14:37] <ckontros> scott-work: Vocals are too hot.
[14:37] <scott-work> ckontros:  two things; i've not figured out how to do my vocals yet, i'm still learning the engineering and my voice
[14:38] <ckontros> I like the guitar tone.
[14:38] <Izo> Pretty rocking riff. 
[14:38] <scott-work> second, i'm redoing all my parts since i got decent drums done
[14:38] <scott-work> ckontros:  the vocals are part of why i want mudita24 in the repos
[14:38] <scott-work> i realized that i had the input quite hot in envy24control because they don't have an gradation on the meter
[14:38] <ckontros> Gotcha. :)
[14:39] <ckontros> scott-work: re: logo. I'd loop the last "U" through the "O".
[14:40] <ckontros> And things like this I'd totally add to our wallpaper pack but not for default.
[14:40]  * scott-work is still working on getting image into imagebin
[14:40] <ckontros> np
[14:41] <scott-work> http://imagebin.org/157679
[14:41] <scott-work> sorry, had to convert pdf to png with inkscape
[14:41] <scott-work> and i don't have all my usual tools on my work computer
[14:41] <scott-work> which is windows....ewwww
[14:42] <ckontros> :P
[14:42] <scott-work> anyway, if this becomes some sort of alternate branding then we could even just us the "U" and "S" intertwined in some places as well
[14:42] <scott-work> just a thought
[14:43] <ckontros> "Officially" we should stick with the 2 already uploaded to the wiki.
[14:44] <scott-work> that's cool, either way, as i come up with ideas i'll keep shooting them out
[14:44] <scott-work> but it might inspire someone else with actual talent like Izo 
[14:45] <ckontros> ;)
[14:45] <scott-work> but if things lined up well between now and the end of the cycle we could even try reinventing the branding since we are basically reinventing the UI and desktop
[14:46] <Izo> Hmmm... I understand the idea behind that logo, but in actuality I don't think it would work. For a start, when you overlap letters and words, scalability becomes a problem. 
[14:46] <scott-work> if not, that's cool too
[14:46] <scott-work> Izo: okay
[14:46] <Izo> You then have to consider how it would work in monochrome. 
[14:47] <Izo> You can duplicate this overlapping effect in colours absolutely fine, though it would suffer at smaller sizes. 
[14:47] <scott-work> Izo: what about if it were "etched" with one of the words a "deeper" etch?
[14:47] <ckontros> *New examples uploaded: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OfficialOneiric (not that it matters. nobody looks at all the info i generate anyway) :P
[14:47] <Izo> But in monochrome, unless you introduce clever spacing between the overlapped characters, you obfuscate the legibility of the logo. 
[14:48] <scott-work> ckontros: i started looking at falktx's patch for the menu, he explained that our menu hack currently doesn't work properly on xfce but the patch fixes this
[14:48] <scott-work> isntall
[14:48] <Izo> scott-work: Again, I see what you mean, but a logo has to, right from the start, work in pure black and white. If it doesn't, know amount of colour or texture will save it. =]
[14:48] <scott-work> i should test it over the weekend in an xfce instal
[14:49] <ckontros> scott-work: Ill start a VM.
[14:49] <scott-work> Izo: lol, okay...i didn't really know about that but it's good to know
[14:49] <scott-work> Izo: i'm really not a graphic design guy and pretty ignorant about such things
[14:50] <scott-work> but any rule of thumb that helps is welcome :)
[14:50] <Izo> No worries. =] Please don't take my words as any kind of personal attack, btw. 
[14:50] <scott-work> oh, no...i'm good
[14:50] <ckontros> Ya gotta keep in mind stuff like this: http://logo-contest.freebsd.org/result/640-1.png
[14:50] <scott-work> cory's told me my work has sucked before and i still like him ;)
[14:50] <ckontros> :P
[14:50] <ckontros> Old example but one that sticks with me: http://logo-contest.freebsd.org/result
[14:51] <scott-work> and to be honest, some of it has :P  (i remember my first interation fo the website mockup)
[14:51] <Izo> ckontros is on the money, the full FreeBSD logo may have glosses and shizzle all over it, but it was built originally in black and white and still works. 
[14:51] <scott-work> that first bds link looks shit hot
[14:51] <scott-work> i really like the one that is all black
[14:52] <scott-work> very bottom, second column from the right
[14:52] <ckontros> Yeah. Is how more of the free software world should work.
[14:52] <Izo> The FOSS world definitely needs a better sense of design. 
[14:53] <ckontros> scott-work: Izo and Troy would get along. :P
[14:53] <scott-work> i think so!
[14:54] <scott-work> ckontros: do you have a link to falktx's xfce menu patch?
[14:54] <scott-work> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/us-menu_xfce.patch
[14:54] <ckontros> 1 sec
[14:55] <ckontros> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/us.tar.gz But he made a change.
[14:56] <ckontros> It needs a simlink.
[14:56] <ckontros> "falktx: applications.menu (which goes to /usr/share/ubuntustudio-menu/menus/), needs a symlink to xfce-applications.menu"
[14:56] <Izo> Right then, I'd be get some work done. 
[14:56] <ckontros> Izo: Thanx man.
[14:56] <Izo> 'salright. =]
[14:57] <scott-work> i guess we're done :P
[14:58] <ckontros> That wasn't the minimize button. :P
[15:05] <ckontros> Ok. I gotta run out for a few. BBS.
[15:27] <scott-work> ckontros:  to be forthcoming, i forgot about the blacklisting in the seeds
[15:27] <scott-work> do we think we are going to get help from the AWN developers for the dependencies or should i go ahead and start pursuing this?
[15:37] <abogani> paultag: ping
[15:38] <ckontros> scott-work: We'll wait. 1) we'll get the switch to XFCE done. 2) Set up 1-panel UI. 3) Switch to AWN UI and add AWN to seeds.
[15:38] <scott-work> ckontros:  i think practically everything needs to wait until we switch to xfce
[15:38] <paultag> abogani: pong
[15:38] <paultag> abogani: what can I do for you?
[15:38] <scott-work> hi paultag 
[15:39] <paultag> heyya scott-work 
[15:39] <scott-work> abogani: i should be testing your kernel this weekend (really!  i promise!)
[15:39] <abogani> paultag: Where could I find ready to use packages for Flux?
[15:39] <abogani> scott-work: No problem :-)
[15:39] <paultag> abogani: woohoo, for what platform? What sort of goodies?
[15:40] <paultag> abogani: the one in oniric should be in sync, 1.3.1~dfsg1-2 ish
[15:40] <paultag> (ubuntu and debian are almost identical, save a build-time change of the default theme)
[15:40] <abogani> paultag: Ok, good. Do you know something about Fluxbuntu?
[15:41] <paultag> abogani: yeah, I do, what's up?
[15:41] <ckontros> Wow. Im shocked its still active.
[15:41] <paultag> ckontros: it's sorta kinda not
[15:41] <paultag> ckontros: they're working on it, but I think it's stalled
[15:42] <holstein> ckontros: i was wondering if a differnt front-end could be added to K3B?
[15:42] <holstein> that answer is no?
[15:42] <ckontros> Is Joe still involved/hanging around?
[15:42] <paultag> ckontros: yeah
[15:42] <ckontros> Ahh...
[15:42] <paultag> ckontros: but he was hella idle the last few years
[15:42] <ckontros> holstein: I dont think its the best idea.
[15:42] <abogani> paultag: How can I install it? Website seems terribly oold...
[15:43] <paultag> abogani: fluxbox?
[15:43] <holstein> i was thinking of it in a duplication of efforts sense
[15:43] <ckontros> abogani: I think you'd be better off just installing Fluxbox.
[15:43] <abogani> paultag: Fluxbuntu
[15:43] <paultag> abogani: yeah don't install that
[15:43] <holstein> if we have something that pulls in KDE for the UI only
[15:43] <paultag> abogani: it's way old and out of date, just install fluxbox
[15:43] <paultag> abogani: combine that with fbautostart and some gnome tools, and you'll be fine
[15:44] <abogani> It seems not enough for me...
[15:44] <paultag> abogani: what's wrong with that?
[15:45] <abogani> replace wm only don't resolve all my issues.
[15:45] <paultag> abogani: then what makes you think fluxbuntu is better?
[15:45] <paultag> it's just an ubuntu fork with fluxbox defaults and some deps dropped
[15:46] <paultag> abogani: if you're that scrunched for cycles, install debian and work it up :)
[15:46] <abogani> Exactly what I want: "ust an ubuntu fork with fluxbox defaults and some deps dropped"
[15:46]  * ckontros does Ubuntu CLI installs and works up. :P
[15:47]  * abogani is too lazy for do that
[15:47] <ckontros> hehe
[15:47] <paultag> abogani: are you that squashed for hard drive space?
[15:47] <paultag> abogani: you know it won't change RAM or CPU usage
[15:48] <ckontros> holstein: But really, I have to watch it because this should be Scotts call. I gotta just sop chiming in.
[15:49] <ckontros> *stop
[15:49] <holstein> ckontros: ?
[15:49] <holstein> you mean K3B?
[15:49] <ckontros> holsteYep
[15:50] <ckontros> gah. I cant type
[15:50] <ckontros> holstein: Correct
[15:50] <holstein> well, it was hypothetical
[15:50] <scott-work> ckontros: holstein: are you talking about the gcdmaster business?   can we get falktx on it, he's a -dev now ;)
[15:50] <holstein> im sure its got those KDE depends for more than the UI now that i think about it
[15:51] <holstein> scott-work: i asked falk, and he told me K3B was the tool for the job :/
[15:51] <ckontros> scott-work: You know you cant count on that. :) Getting him to do little thinngs like the menu is the best way we can use him.
[15:52] <holstein> he didnt say 'i dont want to fix that', he just said 'K3b does that'
[15:52] <ckontros> holstein: Think of his POV though. He does a distro that use it. I would worry about depends and the fact that it duplicates a large part of current functionality just to get 1 feature.
[15:52] <holstein> ckontros: i like the idea of a new app
[15:53]  * abogani 'll try L/Xubuntu ...
[15:53] <ckontros> holstein: It will need a project lead. I can help you with that. :) (but I cant be that guy)
[15:53] <abogani> paultag: Thanks anyway
[15:54] <holstein> ckontros: i can give it a go, but someone on the list seemed to want to take the lead right?
[15:54]  * holstein looking at the thread
[15:54] <holstein> i got a little distracted by Ralph again....
[15:54] <ckontros> hehe
[15:56] <holstein> yeah, Janne Jokitalo
[15:56] <ckontros> Yeah. "astraljava"
[15:57] <scott-work> i agree that k3b probably shouldn't be pursued unless other alternatives are non-viable
[15:57] <holstein> astraljava: COOL
[15:57] <scott-work> but let astraljava work on mudita24 first ;)   (if he is going to do it)
[15:57] <ckontros> Its a shame because its a nice app.
[15:57] <holstein> well, this is not a deal breaker
[15:58] <holstein> we need to get it fixed or replaced in the long term though
[15:59] <ckontros> We'll need to have someone grab the code to see what language it is. If its C, Luis is the only C coder I know.
[15:59] <scott-work> but i don't think k3b is a 1:1 replacement for gcdmaster, didn't gcdmaster do red book masters?
[15:59] <holstein> scott-work: thats what i want to know
[16:00] <holstein> i dont remember k3b having that functionality
[16:00] <scott-work> and has anyone tried contacting the upstream uather
[16:00] <ckontros> scott-work: Yeah. CD-TEXT and all that.
[16:00] <holstein> i didnt have time to get into it with falk when i was asking him
[16:00] <ckontros> scott-work: We should start there. Last release was '06. :(
[16:01] <scott-work> yeah, gcdmaster does red book, i found the 64studio page i was looking for:  http://www.64studio.com/manual/audio/ardour/cdmarkers
[16:01] <holstein> yeah, i used it in 64studio
[16:01] <scott-work> good page by the way...we should totatlly steal it
[16:02] <holstein> worked great... its been broken though AFAIK
[16:02]  * ckontros looks the other way...
[16:02] <scott-work> lol
[16:03] <ckontros> brb
[16:07] <scott-work> just like i mentioned to falktx about paying a bounty for getting us the live image building script, i think i might be able to afford a bounty for fixing gcdmaster possibly
[16:10] <holstein> i'll through falk some cash
[16:10] <holstein> scott-work: when you get a minute, i think i have all the pages made (team reports)
[16:11] <holstein> let me link what i have in the works, and tell me if im on the right track
[16:11] <scott-work> ckontros: while you were gone i mentioned that i had already told falk that i would pay a bounty if we would work up a script for us to make a live image of a ubuntu studio install
[16:11] <holstein> then, i'll dial in the actual info....
[16:11] <scott-work> ckontros: and i mentioned that i could possibly afford another bounty if he fixes gcdmaster
[16:11] <holstein> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamReports/Current of course
[16:11] <scott-work> holstein: i can look at it this afternoon :)
[16:11] <holstein> yeah, whenever... no hurry
[16:11] <scott-work> and i'll add anything else that i can think of as well
[16:12] <scott-work> i'm really interested in the script for building live images from installs
[16:12] <ckontros> scott-work: Ok. You're the boss.
[16:12] <scott-work> not only could this give us an "unofficial" live image for our default installation but it furthers a project that i want to follow
[16:12] <holstein> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamReports/11/March is where we were
[16:13] <holstein> theres https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamReports/11/April now
[16:13] <holstein> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamReports/11/May
[16:13] <scott-work> which is to make a cd size, jack based, no pulse audio, audio focused distro
[16:13] <scott-work> cool, thanks holstein  :)   that's a huge help
[16:13] <holstein> and i made https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamReports/11/June to point Current at
[16:13] <holstein> scott-work: thats the way it works right? or should current be point at May?
[16:14] <ckontros> scott-work: Ok... But really, it should *only* be for testing. Official images should come through the normal build system.
[16:14] <holstein> when 'release development' is referenced, im point at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReleasePlanning#Oneiric Ocelot (11.10) now
[16:14] <holstein> pointing*
[16:14] <scott-work> ckontros: right, strictly unofficial!  "community supported" as it were
[16:15] <scott-work> i'm not sure, but here is my reasoning:  they ask for them by the 10th or 15th of the next month, so....
[16:15] <scott-work> i view the current as the month we just completed
[16:15] <holstein> im going to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamReports as well
[16:15] <scott-work> and also because there's probably not much to show for the current
[16:15] <scott-work> holstein: absolutely
[16:16] <holstein> seems like <<FullSearchCached(title:UbuntuStudio/TeamReports/11)>> is not picking up the ones i just made
[16:16] <holstein> 11/April /May and /June :/
[16:17] <scott-work> holstein: you might look at what others are doing as well to see what is "current" :  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports
[16:17] <scott-work> holstein: also feel free to add your name or replace my name here:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams
[16:17] <ckontros> *Totally* OT: New South Park is awesome. :P
[16:19] <holstein> ckontros: hehe, i like that one with the giant router that gets reset
[16:19] <scott-work> i think that a cd sized, jack based, no pulse audio, audio focused distro based on ubuntu studio using xfce with the new UI would be an aweseome calling card to new users!
[16:19] <scott-work> hell, i might even set up a booth in front of the local hastings or book store and showcase ti
[16:19] <scott-work> it
[16:20] <holstein> yeah, i'll add my name, so folks know who to blame ;)
[16:58] <scott-work> off topic: but, spain arrested some anonymous members over sony attack: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/10/spain-anonymous-idUSLDE7591P420110610
[17:11] <scott-work> holstein: Mike says, "AWESOME!"    i say, "LOL"
[17:12] <holstein> ;)
[17:49] <falktx> hey
[19:18] <scott-work> hi falktx  l0n3w0lf and dtchen  :)
[19:19] <falktx> hey scott-work
[19:19] <l0n3w0lf> scott-work: hey, how's it goin?
[19:19] <scott-work> falktx: just to point out, gcdmaster is good for making red book masters and i don't think k3b or others can do that
[19:19] <falktx> red book ?
[19:20] <scott-work> it's a format with table of contents and such, even cd-text i believe
[19:20] <dtchen> 'lo (all)
[19:20] <scott-work> it is the format the cd's are published in from manufacturers
[19:20] <holstein> orangebook right?
[19:20] <falktx> scott-work: which extension ?
[19:20] <holstein> some color
[19:20] <scott-work> i'm doing good l0n3w0lf , how are you?
[19:20] <holstein> anyways, its the tool that gets us what we want
[19:20] <scott-work> falktx: extension?
[19:21] <scott-work> ckontros: hi
[19:21] <ckontros> hey
[19:21] <scott-work> falktx: would you be interested in porting it to gtk3 or qt or whatever?
[19:21] <l0n3w0lf> scott-work: doing well...  just installing Xubuntu 11.04 for testing on a desktop machine... then going to add studio apps...
[19:21] <ckontros> falktx: gcdmaster is a CD authoring tool that gives options that other mastering apps dont offer.
[19:22] <falktx> scott-work: i use k3b, and has got everything I need
[19:22] <holstein> falktx: it might be something you would be interested in having in KXstudio, since im unsure if k3b actually has that capability
[19:22] <ckontros> You can basically create a redbook standard CD with CD-TEXT as well as other options.
[19:22] <falktx> holstein: scott-work: I still don't get what a red book image is...
[19:22] <falktx> is it TOC? ISO? NRG? what?
[19:22] <holstein> falktx: if you send a CD do manufacturing, you will
[19:23] <falktx> let me try to get some info about this
[19:23] <holstein> falktx: let me know if i can dig something up
[19:23] <holstein> http://www.64studio.com/howto-mastering is where i first read about it
[19:24] <holstein> and 64studio is where i last used it successfully
[19:24] <falktx> holstein: scott-work: ckontros: please note that *all* of the cd/dvd apps I've seen for linux use cmd-line apps (wodim, cdrdao, etc), so they basically all have the same funtionality
[19:24] <holstein> falktx: you would think
[19:24] <ckontros> falktx: And this is not a basic tool.
[19:24] <ckontros> Its very specific.
[19:24] <falktx> I'm sure gcdmaster uses come cmd-line app like wodim to record these
[19:25] <holstein> prolly
[19:25] <ckontros> You would have to use it, or have the need for it to understand.
[19:25] <holstein> falktx: if k3b does it all, then, thats the solution for you
[19:25] <holstein> if not, we might be able to mutually benifit from you being potentially talked into maintaining it :)
[19:26] <ckontros> As I said on the ML... Swords and all...
[19:26] <holstein> ckontros: well, not that we are taking on k3b
[19:26] <holstein> just that falk might not need an alternitive
[19:26] <falktx> everyone please read this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Book_%28audio_CD_standard%29
[19:26]  * ckontros doesnt need to.
[19:27]  * ckontros has it bookmarked. ;)
[19:27]  * l0n3w0lf has it bookmarked as well...
[19:27] <holstein> hehe
[19:28] <l0n3w0lf> WOW, the difference between Unity and XCFE on ubuntu 11.04 is night and day speed-wise
[19:28] <falktx> from what I read -> red book = audio cd
[19:28] <holstein> falktx: sure, but its a certain level of CD
[19:28] <holstein> with text and track into
[19:29] <holstein> stuff that a manufaturer would want
[19:29] <falktx> lol, i don't think so
[19:29] <ckontros> Note that this isnt a tool most people would think about. I was a audio engineer. The options in gcdmaster I have not seen in other apps.
[19:29] <falktx> red book is a standard, like LV2 is a standard
[19:29] <holstein> things, that if you want to be a mastering engineer, you would need to add to the project
[19:29] <ckontros> In free software anyway.
[19:29] <falktx> any app that supports cd-text will in turn support red book too
[19:29] <ckontros> That is the reason Ubuntu Studio added it.
[19:29]  * falktx tries gcdmaster
[19:30] <holstein> falktx: when i wanted to have a track end, and overlap with the beginning of the next track
[19:30] <ckontros> Im not gonna keep going on about it. You gotta try it. :)
[19:30] <holstein> i did that in ardour
[19:30] <holstein> but, GCDmaster is the tool that would read that infomation properly
[19:31] <falktx> holstein: k3b does that!
[19:31] <holstein> falktx: if you say k3b does that, then i need to check on it
[19:31] <holstein> but, i vaugely remember trying it about 10.04, since GCD wasnt working
[19:31] <holstein> and i booted back into 64studio and did the job
[19:31] <holstein> BUT, thats been a while
[19:32] <holstein> might have been 9.04 actually
[19:32] <holstein> falktx: if k3b does it, then you are covered for KXstudio, but we'll need another option
[19:34] <holstein> falktx: im just getting to that email
[19:34] <holstein> i think we are talking about different things
[19:34] <falktx> holstein: I still just don't get what format red book stuff is save into
[19:34] <holstein> brasero did not do the trick for me at all
[19:34] <falktx> I'll try ardour
[19:34] <holstein> falktx: yeah, i'll have time later too
[19:35] <holstein> i'll get the project i have with TOC's and all
[19:35] <holstein> and try k3b
[19:36] <holstein> can brasero make a disc without pauses?
[19:38] <ckontros> There's also the ability to add Catalog/UPC/EAM #'s. (info that CD databases check to pull metadata.
[19:38] <holstein> maybe there are plugins for brasero im unaware of
[19:39] <ckontros> Its small, specific and has little depends. (though they are going away as of lately)
[19:39] <falktx> wtf, TOC is just a common standard to disk burning
[19:39] <falktx> I've been using that myself for years
[19:40] <falktx> I opened gcdmaster and I don't see any special feature
[19:41] <holstein> falktx: i'll do more testing, but brasero did *not* work for me
[19:41] <falktx> lol, it even crashes a lot
[19:42] <holstein> AFAIK, i cant make a CD without 2 seconds in between tracks
[19:42] <falktx> let me try k3b
[19:43] <holstein> falktx: its like the difference between nero and CD architect on windows
[19:43] <holstein> although nero has added a lot of functionality AFAIK
[19:43] <holstein> i havent seen it since v6
[19:43] <falktx> k3b says this TOC file is invalid...
[19:44] <holstein> :/
[19:51] <dtchen> has anyone pinged seb about that gcdmaster change?
[19:51] <dtchen> it seems kinda daft in retrospect, but the rationale in the changelog has good intent
[19:52] <falktx> anyway, I'll be able to put gcdmaster into the PPA if someone needs it for later
[19:53] <ckontros> dtchen: So its not concrete?I really dont know why the changed happened or the plan.
[19:53] <falktx> but all my TOC files I generated with k3b are unreadable (binary), and ardour generates readable ones, which makes me think someone is doing something wrong
[19:53] <dtchen> ckontros: I don't know; I've just read the bug history
[19:53] <falktx> k3b uses wodim and the generated TOCs are unreadable, binaries
[19:53] <falktx> ardour generates readable, text file, TOCs
[19:54] <falktx> which one is right?
[19:54] <dtchen> falktx: well, that's at least one bug; k3b should be fixed
[19:55] <falktx> dtchen: not k3b, wodim. k3b is just a frontend
[19:55] <falktx> and I'm not sure why an app like wodim would do things wrong
[19:56] <falktx> you may not like this, but I think ardour is generating non-standard TOC files
[19:56] <ckontros> "depends on deprecated gnome libraries" Will they be gone from main? Shit. I dont care about unmaintained as long as it still works. Hell, I still use grip. It was dropped so I build it myself. Works fine.
[19:58] <scott-work> dtchen: i can email seb if you think it will help, but will this get around the gtk libraries that are being removed (suppossedly)?
[20:00] <ckontros> falktx: With all this round and round I get that you continue to miss what this app does. It works for creating professional grade, fully compliant, RedBook standard CDs. No other app Ive tried on linux  ever created a proper CD with full working CD-TEXT and info used by the industry for cataloging.
[20:03] <dtchen> ckontros: it looks like the two build-deps were already demoted to universe
[20:04] <dtchen> ckontros: sorry, just one of the two, libgnomeuimm-2.6-dev
[20:04] <ckontros> dtchen: Can gcdmaster be moved there?
[20:04] <dtchen> ckontros: unfortunately all the build-deps must be satisfiable at build time, and cdrdao is a main source package
[20:05] <dtchen> I wonder how difficult it would be to port to gtk3
[20:05] <ckontros> Im guessing something important in main wants cdrdao?
[20:05]  * ckontros is looking for an interim solution.
[20:06] <dtchen> ckontros: yeah, k3b (and thus kubuntu-desktop)
[20:07] <scott-work> i guess i should NOT email seb at this point
[20:07] <ckontros> dtchen: Create a new source pkg?
[20:07] <dtchen> scott-work: right, sorry, didn't mean to ignore that question
[20:08] <scott-work> no, no, its okay :)
[20:08] <scott-work> i'm sure everyone is looking at source or dependencies
[20:08]  * scott-work can't do all that on his windows machine :(
[20:08] <scott-work> well, not with the CLI tools that i'm used to using
[20:09] <dtchen> ckontros: I'm pretty sure duping the source package would be a no-go
[20:09] <ckontros> scott-work: SSH to a home box. :P
[20:09] <ckontros> dtchen: I'm saying split them into 2 source pkgs.
[20:10] <scott-work> ckontros: i have seriously considered that, but just IRC alone pulls me away from actually work at work more than i should, with an ssh available i would probably get fired ;)
[20:10] <dtchen> ckontros: I'm going to investigate if we can adjust seeds (because I haven't looked in a while); it might be that we can temporarily live without gcdmaster just to keep US installable, and have people pull from a ppa during the dev cycle
[20:10] <ckontros> scott-work: I totally understand.
[20:10] <scott-work> i'm going email seb and ask him for options or suggestions then
[20:11] <ckontros> dtchen: I believe Luke already adjusted them.
[20:11] <dtchen> ckontros: ok
[20:11] <dtchen> scott-work: please also Cc me on that; I'm happy to look into porting it to gtk3
[20:11] <scott-work> dtchen: absolutely
[20:11] <dtchen> I don't have serious audio obligations now, so I have a bit of time for actual dev work
[20:12] <ckontros> dtchen: I'd like to help on that where I can. Looks like it uses some non-standard icons as well. Or, deprecated ones.
[20:13] <dtchen> ckontros: absolutely, cool
[20:13] <dtchen> (my frankensystem is running kubuntu atm)
[20:14] <ckontros> dtchen: Thats the one thing I hate about development. My main desktop always becomes a frankenbox.
[20:15] <scott-work> dtchen: shall i use one of your ubuntu addresses?
[20:15] <dtchen> yeah, time to fire up a vm and install 11.10 so my current 11.10 frankeninstall doesn't pollute it
[20:15] <scott-work> or THE ubuntu address?
[20:15] <dtchen> scott-work: the ubuntu one is fine
[20:18] <ckontros> scott-work: Try to contact the upstream author as well.
[20:19] <ckontros> scott-work: See what his intentions are. If he's done with it, we can pull it to LP and get some folks tinkering.
[20:21] <scott-work> ckontros: good point, i'll send one shortly
[20:21] <ckontros> Sure. No hurry. Dont get fired. :P
[20:21] <scott-work> one thing gcdmaster can do that others may not being to do is create a "hidden track" like we see on CD's these days
[20:22] <scott-work> ckontros: lol
[20:23] <ckontros> scott-work: Actually, I'll do it. dtchen you want me to CC you on that?
[20:23] <scott-work> ckontros: sure
[20:23] <dtchen> ckontros: yes, please
[20:24] <ckontros> Also. Guys: Isnt Xubuntu staying with GTK2 or something? charlie-tca: Can you let us in on whats happening here? (i might be mistaken)
[20:26] <charlie-tca> Xfce will stay at GTK2 at least until 4.10, and proabaly beyond. Since Oneiric has Xfce 4.8, we have to keep gtk2.
[20:27] <charlie-tca> We will need gtk3 for the stuff Ubuntu upgrades to it, like software center
[20:27] <charlie-tca> yes, gonna be a mes
[20:28] <ckontros> dtchen: How is that gonna work? ^^^ (i realize that a broad question)
[20:29] <dtchen> ckontros: well, if our focus is to keep gcdmaster, the Xfce bit is irrelevant - unless Xfce is also using gcdmaster.
[20:29] <dtchen> err, the second Xfce should be Xubuntu
[20:29] <dtchen> (AFAIK Xubuntu isn't)
[20:30] <scott-work> they use xburn
[20:30] <scott-work> i believe
[20:30] <ckontros> dtchen: I meant the GTK thing.
[20:30] <ckontros> Well, I guess its like the GTK1->2 move.
[20:32] <charlie-tca> We haven't got the xubuntu session working quite right in oneiric. We made some changes to force gdm to work, and have to reverse them for lightdm
[20:32] <ckontros> scott-work: ^^^
[20:33] <charlie-tca> bug 795575
[20:33] <charlie-tca> the workaround is not working for me
[20:34] <charlie-tca> anything else I forgot to tell you ?
[20:34] <scott-work> ckontros: yeah, i saw some traffic on the xubuntu-devel ML about this
[20:35] <ckontros> No. Just means we might wait till LightDm hits and you guys are working before we make the change.
[20:35] <scott-work> charlie-tca: want to give you a big thank you for your help and work
[20:35] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[20:35] <charlie-tca> wish we had more answers sometimes, though
[20:36] <charlie-tca> hit already. We shoved lightdm into the seeds this week, that's how we found the gdm workaround was still there.
[20:36] <charlie-tca> On an upgrade from 11.04, I think gdm will still be there, and you can install lightdm. It then works
[20:36] <ckontros> Gotcha. Last I tinkered, LightDM was a PITA. :(
[20:37] <charlie-tca> I installed oneiric on this from alpha1 images, and added lightdm. It works, but it does crash every login
[20:38]  * ckontros wonders what defines "unmaintained"? Last gcdmaster was '09. Not too bad.
[20:42] <ckontros> dtchen: Your IRC nic AT ubuntu.com correct?
[20:45] <dtchen> ckontros: crimsun at
[20:55] <dtchen> bye, folks. Back later.
[21:04] <ckontros> Damn. I already sent it. Ill fix it later.
[21:05] <ckontros> PM if needed.