| === knome_ is now known as knome | ||
| charlie-tca | No new images again today | 14:09 |
|---|---|---|
| charlie-tca | Let's go ahead and run the tests scheduled for the 13th on the images we have | 15:01 |
| noey | hello | 18:49 |
| davmor2 | charlie-tca: how's life dude? | 19:04 |
| charlie-tca | It's going, at least. Grass is green, thanks to the daily dose of rain here | 19:07 |
| charlie-tca | I am starting to believe that "rust" really is a color now. | 19:07 |
| charlie-tca | Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 40 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings | 19:19 |
| davmor2 | charlie-tca: haha yes rust really is a colour | 19:20 |
| charlie-tca | Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 1 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings | 19:59 |
| charlie-tca | Are we ready to have a meeting? | 20:00 |
| charlie-tca | #STARTMEETING | 20:01 |
| micahg | o/ | 20:01 |
| * micahg passes charlie-tca a chair | 20:01 | |
| charlie-tca | yes, I know we have no meeting bot, but at least using start and end lets a person seach the logs easily | 20:01 |
| charlie-tca | Thanks, micahg | 20:01 |
| charlie-tca | Welcome to the Xubuntu Community Meeting. The full agenda is always available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings | 20:02 |
| charlie-tca | * Old business - all | 20:02 |
| charlie-tca | knome is to set up a tele-conference of some type to discuss marketing - email discussion started on xubuntu-devel ML - DONE | 20:02 |
| charlie-tca | Charlie to dig for the xscreensaver updates, and put in an SRU | 20:02 |
| charlie-tca | * Team updates - Team Leads | 20:02 |
| charlie-tca | * Packaging & Development | 20:02 |
| charlie-tca | Changes to the default applications | 20:02 |
| charlie-tca | * Bug Triage & Testing | 20:02 |
| charlie-tca | Daily testing versus milestone testing | 20:02 |
| charlie-tca | * Website & Marketing | 20:02 |
| charlie-tca | There is a current discussion on the xubuntu-devel mailing list | 20:02 |
| charlie-tca | * Artwork | 20:02 |
| charlie-tca | * Documentation | 20:03 |
| charlie-tca | * Announcements - Project Lead | 20:03 |
| charlie-tca | TeamReports need to be updated | 20:03 |
| charlie-tca | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports | 20:03 |
| charlie-tca | * Governance structure - all | 20:03 |
| charlie-tca | The governancy part of the current Strategy Document can be found at Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Xubuntu Governance & Team Structure | 20:03 |
| charlie-tca | * Any Other Business - all/anyone | 20:03 |
| charlie-tca | Anyone involved with Xubuntu can update TeamReports, please do not wait for the Project Lead to do the updates. | 20:03 |
| charlie-tca | whoa! that looks big | 20:03 |
| pleia2 | :) | 20:03 |
| charlie-tca | Old business - all | 20:03 |
| charlie-tca | knome is to set up a tele-conference of some type to discuss marketing | 20:03 |
| charlie-tca | We closed this because we did start the discussion on the Mailing List. It is not as active as I would like, however, it is a start! | 20:04 |
| charlie-tca | Charlie to dig for the xscreensaver updates, and put in an SRU | 20:04 |
| charlie-tca | I'm behind and getting farther behind. | 20:04 |
| charlie-tca | Team updates - Team Leads | 20:05 |
| charlie-tca | * Packaging & Development | 20:05 |
| charlie-tca | mr_pouit: You make it, or micahg | 20:05 |
| charlie-tca | The updates I have already are : | 20:06 |
| charlie-tca | LightDM replaced GDM as the login manager | 20:06 |
| charlie-tca | xarchiver replaced file-roller due to nautilus dependency with file-roller | 20:06 |
| charlie-tca | leafpad replaced mousepad; mousepad needs a maintainer in Xfce. This will also allow Xubuntu to drop xfprint4, which is used only by mousepad. | 20:06 |
| charlie-tca | micahg: your turn | 20:06 |
| micahg | mr_pouit created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Oneiric/DeltaReviewAndCleanup to track the current diffs with Debian | 20:06 |
| charlie-tca | Great idea! | 20:07 |
| micahg | we have a few syncs waiting for the next sync run, it looks like we'll only have a handful of packages with a diff in ubuntu when we're done, some of the diff will be kept in Debian | 20:07 |
| charlie-tca | Did we get pavucontrol and pastebinit added to the defaults? | 20:08 |
| micahg | not yet | 20:08 |
| charlie-tca | and, what about the possibility of shipping with two browsers? | 20:08 |
| micahg | we also added back the places plugin since it no longer uses hal | 20:08 |
| charlie-tca | Yay! | 20:08 |
| charlie-tca | That's a nice gain | 20:08 |
| micahg | we're still horribly oversized, we should work on that first before adding more IMHO | 20:09 |
| charlie-tca | I agree. Ubuntu seems to be under now, we should be able to work our images down too | 20:09 |
| micahg | yeah, well, we're inheriting some bloat still from Ubuntu (GTK3) | 20:09 |
| charlie-tca | Thanks for the updates, micahg | 20:10 |
| micahg | so, we'll see what happens after the next CD run | 20:10 |
| charlie-tca | Any questions/comments for development? | 20:10 |
| charlie-tca | Next topic then... | 20:10 |
| charlie-tca | Bug Triage & Testing | 20:10 |
| charlie-tca | Daily testing versus milestone testing | 20:10 |
| charlie-tca | We have not gotten an image since the 10th of June. It is under investigation | 20:11 |
| charlie-tca | However, having a couple of people willing to test daily images (install, restart, update, restart, shutdown), we now have chart of daily testing to use. | 20:12 |
| charlie-tca | https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AucFSttyWCevdGZSenZqRS04eE9LYnBwSWtUM0NJRXc&hl=en_US&authkey=CP282scF#gid=0 | 20:12 |
| charlie-tca | If we are updating it, we will move it to the wiki | 20:12 |
| charlie-tca | Otherwise, it becomes a nice flowchart for the testing people to try to use. | 20:13 |
| charlie-tca | There are still a ton of issues with oneiric, too many to report all the bugs this early. | 20:13 |
| charlie-tca | any questions for testing? | 20:13 |
| charlie-tca | Next topic... | 20:14 |
| charlie-tca | Website & Marketing | 20:14 |
| charlie-tca | There is a current discussion on the xubuntu-devel mailing list | 20:14 |
| charlie-tca | Anyone is welcome to add to the discussion. We really need someone to grab this and carry it on. | 20:14 |
| pleia2 | if someone has some ideas for content we can start creating the "promote xubuntu" page on the site | 20:15 |
| pleia2 | I can start by just putting the logos up if you want | 20:15 |
| charlie-tca | And, in Marketing terms, we welcome the addition of plantoschka to the team. | 20:15 |
| charlie-tca | pleia2: that would be great! | 20:15 |
| pleia2 | ok cool, I'll work on that then :) | 20:15 |
| plantoschka | ;-) | 20:16 |
| charlie-tca | We also have a wiki page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing with general ideas | 20:16 |
| charlie-tca | plantoschka has been kind enough to offer to write news releases and blogs for Xubuntu. | 20:16 |
| pleia2 | great | 20:16 |
| pleia2 | for website stuff, I've been tackling bugs at https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website and we're down to just 1, but please add more if you find them | 20:17 |
| pleia2 | and we now have a test wordpress install up at xubuntu.princessleia.com (please don't spread this URL too far, the server has limited power :)) where knome is developing our wordpress theme | 20:17 |
| charlie-tca | wOw! That's great. Let's stay on top, if you haven't visited http://xubuntu.org lately, it is time to visit it | 20:17 |
| charlie-tca | all bugs against the website can be reported directly to launchpad or using ubuntu-bug xubuntu-website | 20:18 |
| pleia2 | I also emailed cody to see if he could update the current drupal site with knomes latest drupal revision which puts the new logo in, but I haven't heard back | 20:18 |
| charlie-tca | and he isn't here today, either. | 20:19 |
| charlie-tca | Shall we let plantoschka introduce himself? | 20:19 |
| pleia2 | yeah, I'm done :) | 20:19 |
| charlie-tca | plantoschka: go ahead and tell us a little about you | 20:19 |
| plantoschka | oh okay ;) | 20:20 |
| charlie-tca | I know you said you have written a blog in german? | 20:21 |
| plantoschka | i'm anton from germany 23 years old and atm studying computer science. i use and work with linux system since a couple of years and now using (and loving) xubuntu since a few months | 20:21 |
| plantoschka | yes. http://www.plantoschka.com/ | 20:21 |
| plantoschka | some posts are dedicated to xubuntu | 20:22 |
| charlie-tca | I forgot to tell you I was going to have you introduce yourself today? | 20:22 |
| plantoschka | yeah ;) | 20:23 |
| charlie-tca | Welcome to Xubuntu! We are happy to have help | 20:23 |
| charlie-tca | Any questions on website and marketing? | 20:23 |
| plantoschka | not right now | 20:23 |
| charlie-tca | next topic... | 20:24 |
| charlie-tca | Artwork | 20:24 |
| charlie-tca | Our theme will be re-worked to fine tune it for Oneiric. Those with real sharp eyes running Oneiric will see the changes, or at least it did change. | 20:24 |
| charlie-tca | Next topic... | 20:26 |
| charlie-tca | Announcements | 20:26 |
| charlie-tca | There is a really neat review of Xfce, which Xubuntu is based on | 20:26 |
| charlie-tca | http://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/456623-weekend-project-find-hidden-treasures-in-xfce-48 | 20:26 |
| plantoschka | is greybird going to support gtk3 apps? or does it already? | 20:26 |
| charlie-tca | ochosi is planning to support gtk3, yes | 20:27 |
| plantoschka | ok think itÄ | 20:27 |
| charlie-tca | There are no themes yet for it, though | 20:27 |
| plantoschka | it's important for oneiric | 20:27 |
| plantoschka | or all the gtk3 apps look bad | 20:27 |
| charlie-tca | Xubuntu will stay in gtk2 for oneiric, since Xfce requires it | 20:27 |
| charlie-tca | but, yeah, with the mix of them, we will have the theme updated for gtk3 | 20:28 |
| plantoschka | yeah, but still some people are using nautilus or similar.. | 20:28 |
| charlie-tca | heh, oh well... ;-) | 20:28 |
| charlie-tca | software center will also be gtk3, and it is included by default | 20:28 |
| micahg | xubuntu will be staying on gtk2 for oneiric+1 as well :) | 20:29 |
| micahg | software center might not be ported to gtk3 | 20:29 |
| micahg | ubuntu now has a theme engine so that one theme can work for both gtk3 and gtk2 | 20:29 |
| plantoschka | please never remove the software center from xubuntu :-D | 20:29 |
| charlie-tca | I never use it, myself. | 20:30 |
| charlie-tca | however, let's press on here | 20:30 |
| charlie-tca | next topic... | 20:30 |
| charlie-tca | Announcements | 20:30 |
| charlie-tca | TeamReports need to be updated | 20:30 |
| charlie-tca | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports | 20:30 |
| charlie-tca | If we keep the team reports updated as we go through the month, it is much easier than trying to remember everything we did at the end of the month | 20:31 |
| charlie-tca | Anyone involved with Xubuntu can update TeamReports, please do not wait for the Project Lead to do the updates. | 20:31 |
| charlie-tca | Questions? | 20:32 |
| charlie-tca | micahg, mr_pouit : the sooner we can say yes or no to gtk3 the better it will be. | 20:32 |
| charlie-tca | Any other business? | 20:32 |
| charlie-tca | The governancy part of the current Strategy Document can be found at Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Xubuntu Governance & Team Structure | 20:33 |
| micahg | charlie-tca: well, IMHO, if we need it (for shared components we can't replace), we take it, if not, not | 20:33 |
| micahg | charlie-tca: do we need yelp? | 20:34 |
| charlie-tca | yes | 20:34 |
| micahg | ok, that's GTK3, issue solved :) | 20:34 |
| charlie-tca | apparently, much of the xfce documentation is now read through yelp | 20:34 |
| charlie-tca | or at least the answer is "yes, we need yelp" | 20:34 |
| charlie-tca | so, we will have both, huh? | 20:35 |
| micahg | yep | 20:35 |
| charlie-tca | anything else??? Anyone??? | 20:35 |
| charlie-tca | testing! | 20:35 |
| micahg | better to take this hit this cycle than scrambling next cycle, we'll definitely need it next cycle | 20:35 |
| micahg | at least for the shared stuff :) | 20:35 |
| charlie-tca | I have a couple of people signed up for daily and milestone testing. But I am losing them faster than I can sign them up | 20:36 |
| charlie-tca | Alpha2 is due on July 7. On July 5, we start milestone testing the candidate for Alpha2. THat is the involved tests. | 20:36 |
| charlie-tca | Even as volunteers, once you tell us you will do something, we expect it to happen, please. | 20:37 |
| charlie-tca | going.... | 20:37 |
| charlie-tca | going 2 ..... | 20:38 |
| pleia2 | charlie-tca: a reminder to the -devel list on the 4th or 5th would be super helpful | 20:38 |
| charlie-tca | Can do | 20:38 |
| pleia2 | thanks :) | 20:38 |
| charlie-tca | no problem | 20:38 |
| charlie-tca | Thanks for bringing that up | 20:38 |
| charlie-tca | Next meeting will be Sunday June 19 at 22:00 UTC | 20:38 |
| charlie-tca | and I will try to be here for it | 20:39 |
| charlie-tca | Thanks to everyone for participating in the meeting. | 20:39 |
| charlie-tca | #ENDMEETING | 20:39 |
| plantoschka | what exactly does a tester has to do? | 20:42 |
| plantoschka | and is testing inside vm enough or should it run native? | 20:42 |
| charlie-tca | We test the cd's before they are published. Daily testing is to make the cd will even work, since changes happen every day | 20:43 |
| charlie-tca | yes, vm is enough | 20:43 |
| charlie-tca | Milestone testing is more intensive and involved. It follows this: | 20:44 |
| charlie-tca | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing | 20:44 |
| Unit193 | And I just got here... Time to read up | 20:44 |
| charlie-tca | The testing is done for the development images | 20:44 |
| charlie-tca | which often are broken | 20:44 |
| plantoschka | maybe i can help there too, but probably just from end of july.. too much stuff do to atm.. | 20:45 |
| charlie-tca | Hopefully, testing will get most of the bugs reported and fixed before the users get the cd's | 20:45 |
| charlie-tca | That's fine. Every little bit helps | 20:45 |
| charlie-tca | Anyone using weechat for IRC here? | 20:46 |
| charlie-tca | micahg: I did try thunderbird in oneiric. It started, and seems to work. | 20:47 |
| charlie-tca | I will probably have to switch to it, to give it good testing. | 20:47 |
| Wizard | hi | 20:49 |
| charlie-tca | Like anything that is different, it will take sometime to get used to | 20:51 |
| plantoschka | hi Wizard | 20:52 |
| charlie-tca | Gonna be a confusing week, with Thunderbird and Weechat to get used to again. | 20:52 |
| Unit193 | I use thunderbird/alpine and irssi. I was following the milestone for a few of the daily tests (That's why it was a little harder) | 20:56 |
| plantoschka | will dejadub also be integrated in the xubuntu livecd? | 21:00 |
| charlie-tca | I currently use claws-mail and xchat, which I have used for more than two years now | 21:00 |
| charlie-tca | plantoschka: we do not plan to add it at this time | 21:00 |
| charlie-tca | It is very much Ubuntu/Unity/UbuntuOne oriented now, although it does still work for us | 21:01 |
| plantoschka | ok | 21:01 |
| plantoschka | if i regulary update the daily built from today will it be any different from a daily build a couple of days later? | 21:08 |
| plantoschka | or is it necessary to install a from a fresh livecd every couple of day or can i just upgrade? | 21:08 |
| charlie-tca | If you install using the daily build, and update it regularly, it will be very close to the image built at any time | 21:10 |
| plantoschka | but not exactly the same? :-D | 21:10 |
| charlie-tca | I installed the weekend after alpha1 released, and update it daily | 21:10 |
| plantoschka | i mean if i would use the alpha 1 from 11.04 and upgrade it would i get lightdm instead of gdm3 ? | 21:11 |
| charlie-tca | It can not be exact, because some of the changes affect things you will have changed. We do not change what you set for yourself. | 21:11 |
| charlie-tca | um, 11.04 is the last stable release. | 21:11 |
| charlie-tca | If you install oneiric alpha1, yes, you should get lightdm when updating it | 21:12 |
| plantoschka | i meant 11.10 :-D | 21:12 |
| plantoschka | this version numbers make me crazy ;) | 21:13 |
| charlie-tca | but sometimes, you have to do the changes yourself. I installed lightdm here when I set everything up for myself. That was a while before xubuntu set it up | 21:13 |
| charlie-tca | You will get used to the numbers. The numbers are easy if you remember their meaning. | 21:13 |
| charlie-tca | The first number is always the year, and the second number is the month of the actual release. | 21:14 |
| plantoschka | yeah i know but still.. | 21:14 |
| plantoschka | 10,11,12,13,14 would have been easir ;) | 21:14 |
| charlie-tca | Just use oneiric for the current development release. It is easier than a number | 21:14 |
| plantoschka | yeah probably. | 21:15 |
| charlie-tca | but meant less | 21:15 |
| charlie-tca | 11.04 released in April of 2011 | 21:15 |
| plantoschka | is it somehow possible to blacklist installation of some applications like nautilus or gnome-panel? sometimes when i install something from software center (like alacarte) it installs some gnome stuff i dont really need.. (11.04) | 21:16 |
| charlie-tca | yup | 21:17 |
| xrdodrx | plantoschka, it installs them as they are the dependencies of alacarte, I'm not sure you'd want to go around apt like that | 21:17 |
| xrdodrx | but it's possible, yes | 21:17 |
| charlie-tca | add it to a list in /etc/modprobe.d | 21:18 |
| plantoschka | i could uninstall gnome-panel and nautilus and alacarte is still there and works.. | 21:18 |
| charlie-tca | once added, It can not install again | 21:18 |
| charlie-tca | and if it does that, file a bug against the application installed. | 21:18 |
| xrdodrx | ^ | 21:19 |
| plantoschka | /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf here? | 21:19 |
| charlie-tca | alacarte should not pull in nautilus. That is a bug in software center | 21:19 |
| charlie-tca | yup | 21:19 |
| micahg | charlie-tca: ? modprobe is the driver blacklist | 21:19 |
| xrdodrx | that means they are bad dependencies :( | 21:19 |
| charlie-tca | plantoschka: I am wrong, apparently. | 21:19 |
| charlie-tca | micahg: I thought you could blacklist apps too there? | 21:19 |
| plantoschka | i'm not 100% sure that alacarte pulled nautilus. but one app definetly done it.. but alacarte pulled gnome-panel | 21:20 |
| micahg | charlie-tca: I don't think so | 21:20 |
| charlie-tca | plantoschka: still a bug in software-center | 21:20 |
| micahg | alacarte recommends gnome-panel which pulls in other stuff | 21:20 |
| micahg | charlie-tca: no, not a bug in software center | 21:20 |
| ochosi | yeah, i think it's a problem with the default apt-setting | 21:20 |
| micahg | we install recommends by default | 21:20 |
| ochosi | it pulls recommends by default since a few versions | 21:20 |
| ochosi | (same in debian btw) | 21:20 |
| charlie-tca | does apt-get do that too? | 21:21 |
| micahg | yep | 21:21 |
| plantoschka | the archlinux packetmanager pacman can block specific packages ;) | 21:21 |
| plantoschka | apt not? | 21:21 |
| charlie-tca | Then Ubuntu needs to make it work different, alacarte does not need gnome-panel | 21:21 |
| ochosi | charlie-tca: you can work around it by either changing the settings or using "--no-recommends" or something like that | 21:21 |
| micahg | plantoschka: I know in aptitude you can hold packages at a certain version | 21:21 |
| micahg | plantoschka: you can try apt pinning | 21:21 |
| ochosi | you can also pin package versions in synaptic | 21:22 |
| charlie-tca | but that doesn't make it not pull it in | 21:22 |
| micahg | charlie-tca: recommends is something used in most scenarios, still we can probably get that dropped to a suggests | 21:22 |
| charlie-tca | pinning the version will not make gnome-panel not install with a package we need. | 21:22 |
| ochosi | micahg is right | 21:22 |
| micahg | charlie-tca: right | 21:23 |
| charlie-tca | We can only get it dropped with a bug report, right? | 21:23 |
| micahg | yeah, unfortunately, the panels don't provide a virtual package or we could use that | 21:23 |
| charlie-tca | so, we are back to the beginning. We need a bug report on it, to get something done about it | 21:24 |
| ochosi | probably we can ship the apt-setting in the xubuntu default settings package? | 21:24 |
| charlie-tca | for every package that we don't know about? | 21:24 |
| micahg | charlie-tca: debian 603013 partially addresses this | 21:25 |
| ubottu | Debian bug 603013 in alacarte "alacarte: spurious dependency on gnome-menus" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/603013 | 21:25 |
| micahg | ochosi: no, I think we want to install recommends by default, we can block certain things on the images, but ideally, if something's really wrong, we should just get it fixed | 21:25 |
| ochosi | hm right. | 21:25 |
| ochosi | well i generally switch off the install-recommends option, guess that's why i wanted to suggest it | 21:26 |
| plantoschka | going to watch the new game of thrones episode :-D bye | 21:26 |
| charlie-tca | so, debian patches alacarte to only work with gnome, and Ubuntu could remove that patch? | 21:27 |
| xrdodrx | wow, alacarte has a lot of recommends | 21:27 |
| xrdodrx | you can install just alacarte with: | 21:27 |
| micahg | alacarte only recommends gnome-panel | 21:27 |
| xrdodrx | sudo aptitude -R install alacarte | 21:27 |
| xrdodrx | I just did it myself | 21:27 |
| charlie-tca | Unfortunately, per that debian bug report, it may not be useable by xfce: | 21:28 |
| charlie-tca | The problem is that in its current state, alacarte will only be able to | 21:28 |
| charlie-tca | edit gnome-applications.menu and gnome-settings.menu - we patch it do | 21:28 |
| charlie-tca | so, otherwise that would be applications.menu and settings.menu. | 21:28 |
| xrdodrx | micahg, I'm a bit confused then, here's what happened for me: http://paste.ubuntu.com/626122/ | 21:29 |
| xrdodrx | it seems to depend/recommend on every package in ubuntu :| | 21:29 |
| xrdodrx | so far as even ubuntuone-client | 21:30 |
| micahg | xrdodrx: gnome-panel has a lot of depends/recommends :) | 21:30 |
| xrdodrx | adding the -R switch only installed alacarte | 21:30 |
| xrdodrx | micahg, oh, I see ;) | 21:30 |
| * micahg will ask the desktop team tomorrow | 21:33 | |
| charlie-tca | Thanks, micahg | 21:37 |
| charlie-tca | Okay, I have to go shovel dirt now | 22:06 |
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