[01:39] <rick_h_> snap-l jcastro so you guys all set for tomorrow ride wise?
[01:39] <rick_h_> don't need me to run over?
[01:40] <snap-l> rick_h_: Nah, I'm cool
[01:40] <snap-l> JoDee isn't going to class tomorrow, so I have a cara
[01:41] <snap-l> and jcastro is getting a ride from me
[01:41] <rick_h_> ok, cool
[01:41] <jjesse> hey kdis :)
[01:41] <jjesse> kids :)
[01:41] <snap-l> Thanks for checking, though
[01:43] <greg-g> jjesse: heya there!
[01:44] <jjesse> whats up greg-g
[01:46] <greg-g> not much, just working on my slides for tomorrow night's MUG meeting
[01:47] <jjesse> cool
[02:09] <jjesse> am i still online?
[02:12] <greg-g> appear to be
[02:22] <greg-g> not anymore
[02:23] <snap-l> jjessse: You are now offline. ;)
[02:26] <greg-g> hey, everyone who is going should say so here: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/974/detail/   :)
[02:29] <greg-g> smoser: widox Blazeix _stink_ jcastro Wolfger ^^
[02:33] <jcastro> ON IT
[02:34] <jcastro> snap-l: good news craig bologna
[02:34] <jcastro> snap-l: I have a car, I can drive tomorrow if you want
[02:44] <slestak_netbook> hola guys.  got a tip there was a pretty avid pylons user lurking
[02:44] <slestak_netbook> been beating my head against the wall with a nosetest for an http post
[02:44] <rick_h_> heh, possibly
[02:44] <rick_h_> what's up?
[02:45] <brousch1> rick_h_ is the bizomb
[02:46] <slestak_netbook> helping out w rhodecode, a foss hgweb replacement
[02:46] <slestak_netbook> quashing a bug in the ldap auth module
[02:46] <slestak_netbook> while i was there, thought i would fill in some unittest stubs
[02:47] <slestak_netbook> i am not a webdev, but i am trying to pitch in
[02:47] <rick_h_> gotcha
[02:47] <slestak_netbook> this is pylons 1.0, using webhelpers forms
[02:47] <slestak_netbook> sec, cat
[02:48] <slestak_netbook> im getting an http 200 when i call self.app.post
[02:48] <slestak_netbook> ive checked routes and controller mapping pretty closely
[02:48] <rick_h_> ok, and you're expecting a 302 or something?
[02:49] <slestak_netbook> that is a redirect?
[02:49] <rick_h_> yea
[02:49] <slestak_netbook> im expecting the db to be updated,. but my dict of formdata is not being commited to the spqlite db
[02:49] <slestak_netbook> using sa
[02:50] <rick_h_> so things to check, if they're doing a redirect make sure you're getting the 302
[02:50] <rick_h_> if not, make sure they're not checking for a submit button or something in the POST values
[02:50] <slestak_netbook> i know im getting a 200
[02:50] <rick_h_> and you're note actually triggering the post
[02:50] <rick_h_> right, but are they redirecting?
[02:50] <slestak_netbook> lemme see
[02:50] <rick_h_> most forms do, so might be a sign there's something missing in the step
[02:51] <slestak_netbook>  https://bitbucket.org/slestak/rhodecode
[02:51] <rick_h_> k, but where am I looking ?
[02:52] <slestak_netbook> im looking, i didint know if you wanted it
[02:53] <slestak_netbook> yes, they are redirecting in the controller to ldap_home
[02:53] <rick_h_> file/line number?
[02:53] <rick_h_> controllers/?
[02:54] <slestak_netbook> https://bitbucket.org/https://bitbucket.org/slestak/rhodecode/src/3aa8ac731ad8/rhodecode/controllers/admin/ldap_settings.pyslestak/rhodecode/src/3aa8ac731ad8/rhodecode/controllers/admin/ldap_settings.py
[02:54] <slestak_netbook> that doesnt look right
[02:54] <slestak_netbook> admin/ldap_settings
[02:55] <slestak_netbook> im sry, i need to put kgardner to bed.  shes awaiting with book in hand
[02:55] <rick_h_> k
[02:56] <rick_h_> for when you get back:
[02:56] <rick_h_> from looking at this I'd say that you're getting an error of one sort of another
[02:56] <rick_h_> all of them are set to 'flash' so you should see them in the html of the response
[02:57] <rick_h_> so I'd log.debug(str(response) form your untit test
[02:57] <rick_h_> and see what's coming back at you
[02:57] <slestak_netbook> you can use the logger in nosetests too?  wasnt sure abt that
[02:57] <rick_h_> yea, just make sure to tell it to output log info
[02:58] <slestak_netbook> yeah, with -s
[02:58] <slestak_netbook> back in a bit
[02:58] <rick_h_>  nosetests --with-id -v -s -x --with-pylons test_psql.ini qmail_app/tests
[02:58] <rick_h_> is my usual nosetest command
[03:15] <snap-l> jcastro: I have a car as well
[03:15] <snap-l> I can still pick you up if you want
[03:26] <jcastro> ok
[03:28] <slestak_netbook> gonna add thaqt debug
[03:28] <rick_h_> slestak_netbook: you following what I mean?
[03:28] <slestak_netbook> i did some looking around github and bb and not a lot of projects fill in their testing
[03:29] <slestak_netbook> yeah, i think so.
[03:29] <rick_h_> heh, yea :(
[03:29] <rick_h_> but we all love people that add to testing :)
[03:30] <slestak_netbook> i see some tests that are setting the status in the post call
[03:30] <rick_h_> they do status=302?
[03:30] <slestak_netbook> https://bitbucket.org/russellballestrini/pylowiki/src/ab49079b3da4/pylowiki/tests/functional/test_login.py
[03:30] <slestak_netbook> yes
[03:30] <rick_h_> yea, that'll blow up if anytrhing but a 302 comes back
[03:31] <slestak_netbook> he doesnt have any asserts in there so i think its a wip
[03:31] <rick_h_> it's an auto assert
[03:31] <rick_h_> bonus for calling the request
[03:31] <rick_h_> I use that all the time
[03:32] <rick_h_> http://pythonpaste.org/webtest/#what-is-tested-by-default
[03:33] <rick_h_> man, this node.js thing is just too fast. Poor server goes boom
[03:35] <slestak_netbook> i need to find the hadle to log.  not available in my test harness as log.debug
[03:35] <rick_h_> you can also just print it
[03:36] <rick_h_> have to find the output
[03:36] <slestak_netbook> you find pylons old schoolers resistant to port to pyramid?
[03:36] <rick_h_> oh, log only shows with a failing test
[03:36] <rick_h_> so make sure you assert False
[03:36] <rick_h_> I'm not sure, work people are "ugh, learning another system"
[03:36] <rick_h_> but it's not like this is java
[03:36] <rick_h_> I don't know how adoption overall is going
[03:37] <slestak_netbook> this fellow i am helping i think has no desire to port
[03:41] <slestak_netbook> i think its trying to make me log in again
[03:42] <rick_h_> k, that might be
[03:42] <rick_h_> so you need to send auth or go through the login page first
[03:43] <slestak_netbook> i have a helper to login, i think i am just looking at the login link in the response
[03:43] <rick_h_> ah, ok
[03:43] <slestak_netbook> im looking at the ldap settings form
[03:44] <slestak_netbook> i can see the listboxes
[03:44] <rick_h_> k, look for a div/something with "flash"
[03:45] <slestak_netbook> i see that, there is no message to flash
[03:45] <slestak_netbook> the post was not valid, should not have the 200, so i know sth fouled up
[03:49] <slestak_netbook> thx for the assist.  im going to look at this a bit more and get some sleep
[03:50] <rick_h_> k, let me know if you find it
[04:36] <slestak_netbook> rick_h_: got it
[04:36] <slestak_netbook> i wasnt comleting enough of my form toget past validation
[04:37] <slestak_netbook> once i completely filled in param, it worked
[12:56] <brousch> rick_h_: did you sort our slestak last night?
[12:56] <brousch> sort out
[13:09] <greg-g> brousch: it looks like from the scroll back that rick_h_ helped and then slestak got it working in the end
[13:11] <brousch> cool
[13:12] <brousch> had some more pain trying to use unity last night
[13:13] <rick_h_> brousch: yea, think he got it
[13:13] <rick_h_> and fun on the unity pain
[13:14] <brousch> aptana pydev (eclipse) requires sun-java6. there is no sun-java6 in ubuntu any more. there's a ppa, but apparently it doesn't have 64 bit sun-java6. so it seemed to work with open-jdk, except only the Window menu shows up
[13:14] <rick_h_> my boss tried to install/get it and gets a blank screen on startup
[13:14] <rick_h_> he's a bit cranky
[13:15] <rick_h_> hah, so the solution is to not use aptana, come home to vim! :)
[13:15] <brousch> i had blank screens in 2 cases: nvidia-96 drivers (still not available) and a monitor that's not strictly supported
[13:15] <rick_h_> we haven't gotten you switched yet? Did you watch my screencasts?
[13:15] <brousch> i need eclipse for android if nothing else
[13:16] <brousch> i am memorizing vim shortcuts at the rate of 1/month ;)
[13:16] <rick_h_> move up to 1/wk
[13:16] <rick_h_> that's the trick
[13:16] <rick_h_> after a while you get your set
[13:16] <rick_h_> I find different people have slightly different sets
[13:17] <brousch> i learn one when something is annoying to do, like delete a very long line
[13:17] <brousch> or go to the bottom of a file
[13:18] <rick_h_> good ones I use a ton
[13:18] <rick_h_> dtX is another good know to have on hand
[13:19] <brousch> death trap?
[13:19] <rick_h_> dt[somechar]
[13:19] <rick_h_> delete up until you hit this character
[13:19] <greg-g> huh, neat
[13:19] <brousch> ah, nice
[13:20] <rick_h_> df[char] will include that character i the deletion
[13:21] <rick_h_> I tend to use dt though, have to always think about the f version
[13:21] <rick_h_> anyway, very useful in changeing a value in a csv, email addresses, things with stop characters like @,/ and such
[13:22] <brousch> how would i go the middle part of a long line?
[13:22] <brousch> gt?
[13:23] <rick_h_> f[somechar]
[13:23] <rick_h_> I tend to use that
[13:23] <rick_h_> pick a character in the middle and aim for it
[13:23] <rick_h_> ; will repeat the last f command
[13:23] <rick_h_> so in a csv, I might do f, and then hit ;;; until I get to the right field
[13:23] <brousch> is that a colon or semi-colon? my coffee-deprived eyes cannot tell
[13:23] <rick_h_> semi
[13:24] <rick_h_> don't like to have to use modifier keys, needs more keystrokes
[13:25] <brousch> yeah
[13:25] <brousch> and i'm a bad typist
[13:25] <snap-l> brousch: What's the link to your keyboard shotcut guide for UNity?
[13:26] <brousch> it was in one of jcastro's askubuntu threads
[13:26] <snap-l> Right, but you coallated it.
[13:27] <brousch> http://clusterbleep.net/files/Ubuntu_11.04_Unity_Cheat_Sheet.pdf
[13:27] <snap-l> Thank you. :)
[13:27] <brousch> np
[13:27] <brousch> the askubuntu threads are in the footer of that
[13:28] <brousch> i like the desktop wallpaper version someone made
[13:28] <brousch> i can switch to an empty workspace and check it quickly
[13:29] <snap-l> Got a link to that as well? :)
[13:29]  * snap-l is cribbing resources together. ;P)
[13:29] <rick_h_> I smell MUG mtf reuse
[13:29] <rick_h_> /mtf/mtg
[13:29] <snap-l> *whistles*
[13:29] <snap-l> I'm totally giving Ben credit
[13:29] <brousch> http://askubuntu.com/questions/28086/unity-keyboard-mouse-shortcuts
[13:29] <rick_h_> it's all good, it's in the loco
[13:30] <snap-l> rick_h_: exactly. :)
[13:30] <brousch> jcastro compiled the commands. these are just different versions of his work
[13:32] <brousch> so make sure you give him credit ;)
[13:33] <snap-l> He'll be there, so he can take credit if he wants. ;)
[13:34] <Wolfger> dt should be easy to remember... "delete to". But that makes me want to think of df as "delete from", and it sounds like that's not what it does. :\
[13:34] <rick_h_> yea, df doesn't click with me like dt does
[13:34] <_stink_> i just think 'delete find'
[13:35] <_stink_> i use them about the same amount
[13:35] <rick_h_> yea, I mean it's kind of amazing how personal vim is
[13:35] <_stink_> but it's funny how different folks settle into different uses
[13:35] <_stink_> yeah
[13:35] <_stink_> that
[13:35] <rick_h_> there's a common base, but people do settle into their own uses
[13:46] <brousch> on the bright side, i do have my 12 wokspaces on unity now
[13:46] <brousch> and my system monitor
[13:47] <brousch> hm, i can boot into classic mode to see if the aptana menu issue is due to unity or openjdk
[14:00] <greg-g> 12?!
[14:05] <greg-g> though, I guess I do also, since I have 6 workspaces, but 2 monitors
[14:06] <brousch> i rarely use more than 6, but once in a while i use 10
[14:07] <rick_h_> I like having the limits. Once in a while I run out of space
[14:07] <rick_h_> but usually it's a sign to put something down/away
[14:07] <rick_h_> "I'll just leave this open and jump back to it in a min...well it's really going to be a while"
[14:07] <brousch> yeah, mine fill up with collections of chrome tabs for a specific meeting
[14:22] <jcastro> snap-l: just google for "power user guide unity"
[14:22] <rick_h_> ok, ppa talk written. Ugh, feels short
[14:23] <brousch> speak slowly
[14:23] <rick_h_> hah, well I have one slide that's "Story Time"
[14:23] <rick_h_> so will have to really go on during taht
[14:24] <brousch> are mug meetings recorded?
[14:25]  * rick_h_ skips that one
[14:25] <snap-l> jcastro: Yeah, I found that.
[14:26] <snap-l> jcastro: Just wanted to illuminate the hard work of Mr. West-side, brousch
[14:27] <snap-l> brousch: depends
[14:27] <jcastro> WEST SIDE!
[14:27] <jcastro> I like Grand Rapids, I would live there
[14:27] <snap-l> gib tries to record them / broadcast them
[14:27] <snap-l> jcastro: Yeah, I like GR
[14:27] <snap-l> save for the conservatives. ;)
[14:27] <brousch> apparently we have jobs here, too
[14:27] <snap-l> and American Pie
[14:28] <snap-l> That must be a current release over there.
[14:28] <snap-l> You're gonna love Kiss.
[14:28] <snap-l> ;)
[14:28] <brousch> we just started playing this new band on the radio, Rush i think it's called :P
[14:29] <brousch> i suspect it's oriented to frat boys and sorority girls
[14:30] <snap-l> I don't know if you've been at a Rush concert, but it is decidedly not sorority girls who attend.
[14:31] <snap-l> There's two types of women at Rush concerts: True fans, and "my SO dragged me here"
[14:31] <snap-l> The band has actually asked folks that if they're going to drag their non-Rush-loving partners to the show, to please not sit in the front row
[14:31] <brousch> so, old women and old wives?
[14:32] <snap-l> nothing in the world is more of a downer during a show than a cross-armed, stern looking female in the front row
[14:32] <brousch> it seems silly to drag someone to an expensive concert if they don't want to go
[14:32] <snap-l> brousch: I wouldn't go there if I were you.
[14:32] <snap-l> JoDee's a huge Rush fan too. :)
[14:37] <snap-l> This system that I'm testing requires me to use a different e-mail address (can't share e-mail addresses between accounts)
[14:37] <snap-l> I have 28 lines in my /etc/postfix/virtual file.
[14:40] <rick_h_> man, I could of sworn there was a pure python message queue thing when I checked out queues a while ago
[14:40] <rick_h_> can't find it for the life of me now
[14:42] <brousch> pymq?
[14:43] <rick_h_> no, looks like I'm thinking of beanstalkd which isn't python, just works with it
[14:43] <rick_h_> don't see anything pure python/memory
[14:43] <rick_h_> pymq requires mysql
[14:44] <rick_h_> hmm, but it is in the ubuntu repo so maybe I'll try it out again
[14:46] <rick_h_> oh yummy, node.js client
[14:49] <jrwren> ya'll talk too much :p
[14:49] <snap-l> jrwren: Shush
[14:50] <Wolfger> I believe the phrase you are looking for is "cork it, jrwren"
[14:51] <jrwren> *gasp*
[15:17] <jcastro> SNAP-L
[15:17] <jcastro> http://outloud.fm/Metalheads
[15:17] <jcastro> JOIN ME
[15:17] <jcastro> n0p: you too
[15:27] <snap-l> I'm sorry, but they only have sign-up via twitter or Facebook
[15:27] <snap-l> and I'm not giving my twitter creds to any application
[15:28] <snap-l> Thanks, though. :)
[15:28] <brousch> freetard!
[15:28] <snap-l> Pragmatic
[15:28] <Wolfger> secure
[15:28] <snap-l> I don't want some application to suddenly spam people about some service I signed up for 2 yars ago
[15:29] <snap-l> yars = pirate years.
[15:30] <brousch> https://twitter.com/settings/applications
[15:30] <brousch> revoke it
[15:34] <snap-l> brousch: Honestly, sites that only accept twitter / facebook, and don't support openID need to suck it
[15:35] <brousch> i have heard those options pitched to startups as the best way to get people to signup
[15:38] <snap-l> If best way you mean the way to keep curmudgeons out, then yes, it's the best way.
[15:39] <Wolfger> brousch: As a startup, you are a fool not to have those options.... but don't make those your only options. That's just lazy.
[15:40] <snap-l> Also, it's stupid to build your platform off another company
[15:41] <brousch> well you're handing off auth to FB and twitter so you don't have to have your own solution
[15:41] <snap-l> building it off of two should be a sign to your handlers that you might hurt yourself.
[15:43] <jrwren> snap-l: exactly!  no FB or Twitter auth.
[15:44] <jrwren> if you don't accept more auth, then fuk u, i ain't using yoru service
[15:49] <brousch> your daily wtf http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pube5Aynsls
[15:57] <brousch> :( http://sourceforge.net/
[16:03] <snap-l> brousch: What about it, other than it's taking a while to load?
[16:04] <_stink_> i got a placeholder saying stuff is slow, and didn't get the front page
[16:05] <snap-l> Huh... I got the front page.
[16:06] <brousch> i got a melting anvil
[16:07] <_stink_> hah, didn't even notice what that was
[16:09] <jcastro> snap-l: where are you? we need your input
[16:09] <jcastro> http://outloud.fm/Metalheads#
[16:10] <brousch> that made me laugh outloud
[16:17] <snap-l> jcastro: Have you read the above? :)
[16:17] <jcastro> ugh
[16:17] <snap-l> Seriously, not signing into a service that requires twitter or facebook to join
[16:17] <jcastro> you suck
[16:17] <snap-l> jcastro: Yes, yes I do
[16:18] <jcastro> but yeah, that does suck
[16:22] <snap-l> Anyone know of any location for small m4v files?
[16:22] <snap-l> I need something less than 600K
[16:26] <brousch> location?
[16:26] <snap-l> Place where one might find said files.
[16:27] <snap-l> I'm trying archive.org, but finding something that granular is proving difficult.
[16:27] <brousch> i can easily make some
[16:27] <brousch> you want like a 10 second clip at full res, or a downsized longer clip?
[16:28] <snap-l> Something that will show up on an iPhone, 10 seconds is fine
[16:28] <snap-l> and something that I can distribute. ;)
[16:28] <jcastro> how is the internet at the new mug place?
[16:28] <snap-l> jcastro: Spotty
[16:28] <snap-l> some times it's fine, and othertimes it's non-existent
[16:28] <snap-l> andif Gib is broadcasting, it turns to shit.
[16:29] <_stink_> hah
[16:29] <snap-l> Big Blue Button is neat, but it totally blue-balls the internet.
[16:30] <brousch> geez, even that 8 second intro from yesterday is 3MB
[16:31] <jrwren> snap-l: I can make you a small 600k m4v if you like
[16:31] <snap-l> The more the merrier
[16:31] <jrwren> what bitrate would you like?
[16:31] <snap-l> Whatever an iPhone will accept
[16:31] <jrwren> snap-l: if you just want to try a stream: http://delays.xmtp.net/~jrwren/sp.mp4 is what I was experimenting with for iphone. but its a reasonably large file.
[16:32] <jrwren> iphone will accept pretty much any bitrate.
[16:32] <snap-l> Has to be under 600K, unfortunately
[16:32] <brousch> what video is under 600k?
[16:32] <brousch> must be 5 frames
[16:32] <snap-l> brousch: really shitty videos
[16:32] <jrwren> why under 600k?
[16:32] <snap-l> It's a size requirement for the system I'm testing
[16:33] <snap-l> Whichis fine for animated gif files, and even some mp3 files
[16:33] <snap-l> but for video, it's a real PITA
[16:34] <snap-l> tried using ffmpeg, but I don't think it has a m4v encoder.
[16:34] <jrwren> m4v is just a container ya know.
[16:34] <jrwren> and signifies that it is probably iphone compat
[16:35] <jrwren>  http://delays.xmtp.net/~jrwren/sp600.m4v
[16:35] <brousch> you can just rename a .mp4 to m4v
[16:36] <snap-l> brousch: Are they  equivalent
[16:36] <jrwren> its just a file ext.
[16:36] <jrwren> its meaningless.
[16:37] <snap-l> jrwren: hah. :)
[16:37] <jrwren> its true.
[16:37] <snap-l> (just downloaded what you encoded)
[16:37] <jrwren> here... let me change it to mpg.
[16:37] <jrwren> it will work.
[16:37] <jrwren> snap-l: oh... HA! :)
[16:37] <jrwren> snap-l: yeah, I was surprised about what I got for 600k :)
[16:37] <snap-l> Actually, it's 615K
[16:38] <jrwren> sorry.
[16:38] <snap-l> np
[16:38] <jrwren> i told it 600000
[16:38] <snap-l> Actually, let me try something
[16:38] <jrwren> ffmpeg must not count the header.
[16:38] <jrwren> you want to smaller?
[16:38] <snap-l> Just created a blender animation
[16:38] <jrwren> or you can do it yourself with this
[16:38] <jrwren> ffmpeg -i input.avi -acodec aac -ab 128k -vcodec mpeg4 -b 800k -mbd 2 -flags +mv4+aic -trellis 1 -cmp 2  -subcmp 2 -s 320x180 -metadata title=X -strict experimental -threads 2 -fs 600000 output.m4v
[16:38] <jrwren> remove the -fs 600000 to do the whoel file.
[16:38] <snap-l> I have a mp4 file that is 15K
[16:38] <jrwren> change the -fs 600000 to -fs 590000 to get less than 600k
[16:39] <snap-l> might just rename it to m4v and see what happens
[16:39] <snap-l> since it appears m4v is just Apple's proprietary extensions for mp4
[16:39] <snap-l> (which would figure)
[16:39] <snap-l> Thank you, though. I really appreciate it!
[16:41] <brousch> jrwren: nice ffmpeg command
[16:42] <brousch> hm, does that make h264 or mpeg4?
[16:45] <brousch> i should say, does it make mpeg4 part 2 or mpeg4 part 10 (h264) video?
[16:47] <brousch> jrwren: i think your command makes mpeg4 part 2 video. you need the libx264 vcodec for h264
[16:48] <brousch> check out http://h264.code-shop.com/trac/wiki/Encoding#Ffmpegx264profileBaselinelevel3.0iPhone
[16:49] <snap-l> Oh, very nice.
[18:18] <snap-l> brousch: I will eat your children.
[18:18] <snap-l> "Will it be televised?"
[18:19] <brousch> i wanted the twitters to know about it
[18:19] <snap-l> heh
[18:19] <brousch> and gave you the opportunity to post a link to the video stream (if it exists)
[18:19] <snap-l> Hopefully it will, on someone's 4G myfi
[18:19] <snap-l> sadly, it'll likely cream the bandwidth of the ESD
[18:20] <brousch> dangit
[18:26] <snap-l> BTW: http://openmetalcast.com/2011/06/14/open-metalcast-episode-23-fighting-narwhals/
[18:31] <brousch> what weapon do you use to fight a narwhal?
[18:38] <snap-l> Anger
[18:41] <brousch> despite all your rage, you're still just a narwhal in a tank
[18:42] <jrwren> brousch: shit, you are right... but iphone plays it :)
[18:43] <jrwren> brousch: but TY so much... I can probably do much better and have less Xfer if I move to h264
[18:43] <brousch> i use mpeg4 as my "works everywhre" codec
[18:43] <jrwren> why not h264?
[18:44] <brousch> editing h264 drives some editor bonkers
[18:45] <brousch> at least last time i tried them (openshot, kdenlive, pitivi, cinelerra, etc)
[18:45] <brousch> they all work well with mpeg4 part 2
[18:47] <jrwren> brousch: what is crazy is that x264 you linked actually encodes faster than the mpeg4p2 that i was using.
[18:48] <jrwren> oh wait, no. just started out faster.
[18:48] <jrwren> oh EDITORS.
[18:48] <jrwren> but if i only care about playback, then h264 is great.
[18:48] <brousch> right
[18:48] <brousch> and i think editing has improved in the last year
[18:49] <brousch> i think that encoder is a two pass, so it does a quick pass then a slower one
[18:51] <jrwren> all with 1 ffmpeg command?
[18:51] <jrwren> usually you have to -pass 1 and -pass 2
[18:51] <jrwren> but I'm more of a mencoder guy.
[18:51] <jrwren> this move to ffmpeg is new to me.
[18:52] <brousch> you're right, i don't see 2 passes there
[18:53] <brousch> i used to use encoder, but i had too many instances of audio getting out of sync with the video
[18:53] <brousch> mencoder
[18:59] <jrwren> i never had that
[19:00] <jrwren> i just never found a good iphone compat h264 cmd line
[19:33] <snap-l> And good evening
[19:33] <snap-l> er, afternoon
[19:35] <snap-l> I have used a lorem generator today
[19:35] <snap-l> I feel accomplished.
[19:35] <jrwren> the one built into MSWORD?
[19:36] <snap-l> No, a website
[19:37] <snap-l> But that's interesting
[19:39] <jrwren> brousch: actually, the h264 is about 2fps faster than mpeg4v2 that i was using.
[19:39] <jrwren> 16 v 14fps.
[19:39] <jrwren> E8500 used to be fast, LOL
[19:42] <brousch> the playback is faster or the encoding?
[19:43] <devinheitmueller> jrwren: were you able to find a m4v file that met your needs?
[19:55] <rick_h_> man, so close, but postgresql still hates me today
[19:56] <brousch> see, it's not just mysql
[19:57] <rick_h_> heh, ah true
[19:57] <brousch> you should switch to mongo!
[19:57] <rick_h_> but at least I'm trying to do something you can't do in mysql
[19:57] <rick_h_> create custom group aggregate functions without writing C
[19:58] <brousch> ug, so if i'm writing docs in rst, should i add line breaks at 80 characters?
[19:59] <brousch> pita to chage a word in the middle of a paragraph
[19:59] <rick_h_> gq
[20:01] <brousch> how do i specify what is a paragraph?
[20:01] <rick_h_> I just v to highlight the line/next
[20:02] <rick_h_> you can do paragraphs with { or something I think
[20:02] <brousch> hm, i'll give this a try
[20:03] <rick_h_> http://www.ukuug.org/events/linux2004/programme/paper-SMyers/Linux_2004_slides/vim_tips/#slide15
[20:03] <snap-l> devinheitmueller: I was looking, and yes, i think I found something that worked.
[20:03] <snap-l> Thanks!
[20:03] <devinheitmueller> np
[20:03] <devinheitmueller> If you've got copyright/redistribution issue, let me know and I can record some colorbars for you in an ipod compatible format.
[20:04] <snap-l> Actually, if you would send me that, that would be great
[20:04] <devinheitmueller> I can do it after the MUG meeting tonight.
[20:04] <snap-l> the file i sent to the ipod came across as unknown when sent via MMS
[20:04] <snap-l> Awesome. Thanks!
[20:04] <devinheitmueller> You want that in NTSC?  or PAL?
[20:05] <devinheitmueller> Also, what resolution do you want?
[20:06] <snap-l> heh
[20:07] <snap-l> NTSC, suitable for an iPhone
[20:07] <snap-l> (I have NFC what res an iphone handles)
[20:07] <devinheitmueller> ok
[20:08] <brousch> ah, it's one of those things i have to type really fast to make work right
[20:10] <brousch> rick_h_: nice, gqap seems to do what i need
[20:10] <jrwren> i encode 320x180 for iphone
[20:11] <brousch> i can tell you what imovie spits out for its "iphone" format
[20:12]  * snap-l wishes he had a mac to make this much easier
[20:13] <brousch> 480x270, h264, aac, bitrate 894
[20:14]  * rick_h_ winds up to smack snap-l 
[20:14] <rick_h_> where's the trout when you need one
[20:14] <snap-l> rick_h_: Oh, pshaw
[20:14] <devinheitmueller> You should be able to do 640x480 on the iphone.
[20:14] <snap-l> Hell, with the retina display, I thikn you could do full HD.
[20:14] <devinheitmueller> Handbrake has all the presets for the various devices.  Will reboot into my mac.  one minute...
[20:14] <snap-l> it would just be REAALLLLLYYYY TINY
[20:15] <brousch> here's your target according to imovie: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/Screen%20shot%202011-06-14%20at%203.14.25%20PM.png
[20:15] <brousch> yeah, the 270 probably depends on the original file's aspect ratio
[20:16] <devinheitmueller> Ok, so iphone is indeed 480x272
[20:16] <devinheitmueller> ipod is 320x176
[20:16] <snap-l> interesting
[20:16] <devinheitmueller> bitrate varies by device.
[20:17] <devinheitmueller> ipod=700, iphone/ipod touch=960, iphone 4 and ipad = 2500
[20:18] <brousch> devinheitmueller: are you getting this from a web page?
[20:19] <devinheitmueller> I'm just clicking through the handbrake presets.
[20:19] <brousch> because that's usefull info you're spouting ;)
[20:19] <devinheitmueller> I cannot cite them as "authoritative" as it's possible that the HandBrake people didn't follow the Apple specs.  But it's "reliable enough".
[20:20] <brousch> reliable is better than authoritative
[20:20] <brousch> aka theoretical
[20:20] <devinheitmueller> Don't I know it.  :-)
[20:21] <devinheitmueller> Also, I can cheat.  I built a hardware product which encodes arbitrary video to iPod format in realtime.
[20:21] <devinheitmueller> so, for example, to prep snap-l's colorbars video, I just have to plug my signal generator into the s-video port of the device, and out comes a file suitable for the iPod/iPad.
[20:22] <snap-l> Oh, nice.
[20:22] <brousch> geez
[20:22] <rick_h_> that definitely sounds like cheating
[20:22] <devinheitmueller> Yup.
[20:23] <devinheitmueller> Of course in fairness, I had to make the product work in the first place, in which time I probably could have transcoded a few thousand videos via handbrake.  ;-)
[20:23] <devinheitmueller> http://hauppauge.com/site/products/data_broadway.html
[20:25] <snap-l> broadway the not-so-hard way.
[20:27] <brousch> does it work on linux?
[20:28] <snap-l> It's an embedded device
[20:28] <devinheitmueller> it's a network enabled product.  It doesn't connect directly to a PC.
[20:29] <devinheitmueller> If you click on the gallery, you will see a picture that shows a network diagram.
[20:29] <Milyardo> not sure if trolling, or serious
[20:29] <devinheitmueller> Milyardo: pardon?
[20:29] <Milyardo> @brousch
[20:30] <devinheitmueller> It *should* work with Linux, but it's not really tested.
[20:30] <devinheitmueller> In theory, it should even work with MythTV (as it implements the HD-HomeRun network protocol)
[20:35] <devinheitmueller> probably one of the biggest challenges under Linux is that it delivers H.264 video, and many Linux browsers don't support it.  That said, I developed large portions of it from my Linux desktop, using VLC for the actual playback.
[21:07] <greg-g> home time, then travel to MUG time
[21:12] <rick_h_> woot
[21:18] <brousch> we were just playing with wolfram alpha. it s sriously cool http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%284%2F3+*+%28a%2Bb%29%29+%3D+%28a%2B3b%29
[21:22] <jrwren> brousch: is that imovie 894 bitrate a&v or just video + 128audio or what?
[21:23] <brousch> jrwren: that was audio and video, codecs chosen by imovie for their iphone export preset
[21:23] <jrwren> cool.
[21:24] <jrwren> do you know how they balance the a/v?  is it 798video 96 audio? or other?
[21:24] <brousch> so according to devinheitmueller's earlier comment, the 894 fits just under the 960 max bitrate for iphone
[21:24] <brousch> jrwren: i think it's 128bit audio
[21:25] <devinheitmueller> Which format do you want to know?
[21:25] <devinheitmueller> ipod is 700/160
[21:25] <jrwren> i'm trying a 96bit aac and 400bit video.  i want to see if I notice the difference
[21:25] <devinheitmueller> iphone is 960/128
[21:25] <jrwren> devinheitmueller: according to whom?
[21:27] <devinheitmueller> again, handbrake
[21:27] <devinheitmueller> These are defaults.  audio bitrates tend to be configurable.
[21:28] <brousch> devinheitmueller: do you know of a source for info like that for android devices?
[21:29] <devinheitmueller> brousch: no, the presets in handbrake are just for Apple products.
[21:29] <devinheitmueller> There can be much more variance in Android supported formats, since there are many different processors used in those devices.
[21:29] <devinheitmueller> (each with different max bitrates)
[21:29] <brousch> right
[21:30] <devinheitmueller> That said, it's entirely possible that Google publishes such a guide with best practices - I do not know.
[21:30] <brousch> ok
[21:31] <devinheitmueller> Well, well.  Look what a google search for "android audio video bitrates" comes back with as its first hit....
[21:31] <devinheitmueller> http://developer.android.com/guide/appendix/media-formats.html
[21:31] <devinheitmueller> recommendations at the bottom of the page.
[21:35] <jrwren> i checked out handbrake, but I did not see any video bitrates specified
[21:35] <jrwren> https://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/BuiltInPresets#iphone    <-- no video bitrate that I can find.
[21:36] <jrwren> but that is still just handbrakes defaults... which is great to use as a reference.
[21:36] <jrwren> so far I'm very happy with my 400/96 encode.
[21:36] <jrwren> I never dreamed of the day I'd have enough outgoing bandwidth to stream thiskind of thing, but ty comcast.
[21:37] <devinheitmueller> If you run the GUI, you can click on the various modes and then see what their underlying settings translate to.
[21:37] <devinheitmueller> (including bitrates)
[21:37] <jrwren> right, but I do not thing the UI is telling the truth.
[21:37] <jrwren> I guess I'm saying I trust the docs more than I trust the UI.
[21:37] <jrwren> which is probably foolish.
[21:37] <jrwren> you can ask the UI to show you the CLI, can't you. I'd trust that ;)
[21:38] <jrwren> also, I don't know waht handbrake UI are you suing.
[21:38] <jrwren> but mine does not show video bitrate for iphone.
[21:38] <devinheitmueller> I haven't looked at the command line docs, but I bet "-X" is the video bitrate, and "-B" is the audio bitrate for each channel.
[21:38] <jrwren> it shows "constant quality.
[21:38] <jrwren> -B is audio, yes.
[21:38] <jrwren> -X is NOT
[21:38] <jrwren> you can handbrakeCLI --help 2>&1|less and find what -X does.
[21:39] <devinheitmueller> Yeah, I'm not in front of a Linux box, so no I cannot.  That said, I bet the bitrate is in there.
[21:39] <jrwren> its not.
[21:39] <jrwren> i am in front of both windows and linux and I checked :)
[21:39] <jrwren> handbrake uses variable bitrate with a quality setting of 60% aka, -q 20
[21:40] <jrwren> see the -q option of HandbrakeCLI
[21:47] <brousch> jrwren: can you specify a profile to use? my guess is iphone targets the same profile as android, Baseline Profile
[21:48] <brousch> doesn't look like it
[21:51] <brousch> h264 really hurts me mind
[21:51] <devinheitmueller> brousch: welcome to my world.  :-)
[21:52] <brousch> oh, i waded around in it for a while a year or so ago
[21:52] <brousch> now i just let avidemux do it for me
[21:54] <brousch> this page seems very nformative https://sites.google.com/site/linuxencoding/x264-encoding-guide
[21:59] <jrwren> i dont' know anything about android.
[21:59] <jrwren> but I'd imagine it is just like iphone but supports more options :)
[22:00] <brousch> well they both support baseline profile
[22:00] <jrwren> weird use of mplayer instead of mencoder on that site.
[22:00] <jrwren> i don't even know what "baseline profile" means
[22:00] <brousch> which defines a bunch of constraints
[22:00] <brousch> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC#Profiles
[22:01] <devinheitmueller> that's really the challenge.  Typically those devices support a *subset* of the available profiles, and expect the content preparer to meet those expectations.
[22:02] <jrwren> oh, well that one you linked for iphone is at least HiP I think.
[22:02] <jrwren> i see 8x8 and 4x4 options.
[22:02] <brousch> i'm gonna flee before my head asplodes
[22:03] <jrwren> yeah, i don't really case about the details.
[22:03] <jrwren> i just want low bitrate high quality on my phone :)
[22:03] <jrwren> and I have that. HURRAY!
[23:29] <rick_h_> Blazeix: dude
[23:29] <greg-g> here we go!
[23:29] <rick_h_> watch out...dude
[23:31] <Blazeix> good luck!
[23:32] <rick_h_> Blazeix: finally heard back from the js uuid libary guy
[23:32] <rick_h_> he says he's not interested in adding v3 support
[23:42] <Blazeix> yeah, not too surprised. I don't think any of his algorithms actually hashed user input.
[23:42] <Blazeix> it was more of the 'random generator' kind
[23:43] <rick_h_> right, well it's all the other uuid specs :(
[23:43] <rick_h_> moved on, but figured I'd let you know since you went down that path