[18:23] <czajkowski> Aloha, does anyone know if there is a wordpress Ubuntu theme ?
[18:24] <nigelb> Yes, there is.
[18:28] <daker> czajkowski, https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-community-webthemes/ubuntu-community-webthemes/light-wordpress-theme
[18:30] <czajkowski> danke
[22:57] <paultag> Has anyone sent the wordpress theme to wordpress.com?
[22:58] <cjohnston> no.. not sure that they allow it
[22:59] <paultag> cjohnston: why not?
[22:59] <paultag> just take all ubuntu can canonical refs and strip them, set them as dynamic config vars
[22:59] <paultag> no theme issue, no license issue
[23:11] <mhall119> paultag: most of the general look and feel might fall under Canonical's trademarks
[23:11] <mhall119> even outside the color and logo
[23:12] <mhall119> it's one of those hazy legal areas
[23:12] <paultag> mhall119: then we need to relicense nonfree
[23:12] <mhall119> say what?
[23:12] <paultag> mhall119: and the branches need to be not marked as GPLv2, since there are restrictions on terms the license demands
[23:12] <mhall119> trademark and copyright aren't the same though
[23:12] <paultag> mhall119: the GPL says there can't be restrictions in that way, and if Canonical is claiming there is, they are no longer GPL free
[23:12] <mhall119> the code fits perfectly within the GPL
[23:13] <paultag> mhall119: CSS is GPL'd
[23:13] <mhall119> it's not Canonical, it's Wordpress
[23:13] <paultag> mhall119: therefore I should be able to change the background's color to green and re-distribute
[23:13] <paultag> mhall119: but I can't. Therefore it's not GPL free
[23:13] <mhall119> you can
[23:13] <paultag> mhall119: then why can't I upload to wordpress?
[23:13] <mhall119> you can if you remove all the trademark'd stuff
[23:13] <paultag> 21:59 < paultag> just take all ubuntu can canonical refs and strip them, set them as dynamic config vars
[23:14] <paultag> like that?
[23:14] <cjohnston>  general look and feel might fall under Canonical's trademarks
[23:14] <cjohnston> 18.11.36 < mhall119> even outside the color and logo
[23:14] <mhall119> at a minimum, the colors and images
[23:14] <mhall119> images being the menu stripes and dot patterns
[23:14] <cjohnston> basically diluting it so much that it isnt worth if
[23:15] <mhall119> if you did that, I don't see why you couldn't upload to Wordpress
[23:15] <paultag> someone kick canonical's ass about this, we need the theme for the loco council wordpress instance that you guys need for LD
[23:15] <mhall119> it may be worth it to someone, but not to us
[23:15] <cjohnston> paultag: you can use it
[23:15] <paultag> we have it created but not ubuntu branded, and we can't upload a tarball on wordpress.com
[23:15] <mhall119> paultag: you can use it
[23:15] <cjohnston> bzr branch lp:abd
[23:15] <paultag> cjohnston: I can't because I can't upload, we have to use the theme pool
[23:15] <cjohnston> no you dont
[23:15] <paultag> cjohnston: I don't have shell access; it's wordpress.com hosted
[23:15] <mhall119> you can't use a custom theme?
[23:15] <cjohnston> just branch it in the the wp-content/themes dir
[23:15] <paultag> mhall119: not uploaded, it has to be from the theme pool
[23:15] <paultag> I'm not an idiot, I tried
[23:15] <mhall119> really?
[23:15] <paultag> yes
[23:15] <mhall119> that's pretty limiting
[23:15] <cjohnston> where is it being hosted?
[23:16] <paultag> I used to have WP on my server, and you can there
[23:16] <cjohnston> wordpress.com?
[23:16] <paultag> cjohnston: wordpress.com
[23:17] <cjohnston> I guess try to get it on a canonical server
[23:17] <mhall119> paultag: is this because it's hosted by wordpress, or because it's using free hosting by wordpress?
[23:18] <paultag> mhall119: we literally did not think any of this through the point of getting it done. I don't think anyone cares where it's hosted at all, just no one wants to put something so overarching on their server
[23:19] <mhall119> I bet someone on the community team can arrange for an EC2 instance
[23:19] <paultag> I just don't like dealing with Canonical at all. If this were Debian, I could just SSH into a machine and set it up, but now I have to fight IS for resources
[23:19] <paultag> mhall119: it'd be nice to have
[23:19] <mhall119> paultag: I said something at UDS to that affect
[23:20] <paultag> mhall119: yeah, it sucks ass. To the point where I went to wordpress over our own systems
[23:20] <paultag> mhall119: which is sad, frankly
[23:20] <mhall119> paultag: you should have asked, someone in the community would be happy to host it for you
[23:21] <paultag> mhall119: well I don't need a community machine, I need something that will outlast generations of contributors
[23:21] <paultag> some-machine.ubuntu.com
[23:21] <mhall119> paultag: why not put your trust in the community?
[23:22] <paultag> mhall119: because when they vanish, the server is no longer part of the community
[23:22] <mhall119> WP is easy enough to migrate from one install to another if you have ot change
[23:22] <mhall119> CoC says we don't just up and vanish
[23:22] <paultag> that's not always the case in practice
[23:22] <paultag> I've seen people just up and leave more times then I can count
[23:22] <paultag> I'd rather this be canonical's deal
[23:22] <mhall119> paultag: true, but you're asking Canonical to trust in community members
[23:23] <paultag> mhall119: the same ones that develop the product they're selling?!
[23:23] <paultag> mhall119: yeah, I am
[23:23] <cjohnston> paultag: Want me to see if I can make it happen on a canonical server? I know the people to do it.. case in point I just got status.u.c up
[23:23] <mhall119> paultag: would you trust me to host it?
[23:23] <paultag> cjohnston: yeah, that'd be awesome. This is just another blocker
[23:23] <cjohnston> got a call...
[23:23] <paultag> mhall119: yes, but I don't want it on your server, I'd rather this be part of Canonical. It makes more sense. I also trust myself to host it, but I won't, since the LC does not exist while I'm here
[23:24] <mhall119> huh?
[23:25] <paultag> the LC is not a sub-team of something that's exclusive to me, the LC will be here long after I'm gone, hopefully
[23:25] <mhall119> paultag: I'm just suggesting that maybe it's okay to trust a community member to make this contribution to the community, and follow the CoC if they have to withdraw the offer
[23:25] <mhall119> what's the worst that can happen? the blog goes down?
[23:25] <paultag> mhall119: this, to me, is a clear cut example of when Canonical needs to pitch in and help
[23:26] <paultag> mhall119: this is a governance board, official Ubuntu in every way shape and form
[23:26] <mhall119> paultag: I just don't see why it's imperative that Canonical help, when the community is able and willing to
[23:26] <mhall119> it's also very representative of the community
[23:26] <paultag> it's not someone's personal blog, it's not some half-assed project, it's a function of Ubuntu. A function that keeps 18,000 members rocking
[23:26] <paultag> mhall119: someone could host Launchpad, too
[23:26] <mhall119> they could
[23:26] <mhall119> except have you seen the code?
[23:27] <paultag> mhall119: but they won't because you don't want to keep migrating and playing with it
[23:27] <mhall119> though wordpress ain't much better
[23:27] <paultag> mhall119: it might be doable, but it's not how to run a project
[23:27] <paultag> this is a clear example of how Canonical should be helping Ubuntu
[23:27] <mhall119> paultag: the LC isn't your typical project, maybe a non-traditional approach is okay here
[23:28] <paultag> it's not my project at all, it's the communities
[23:28] <paultag> community's
[23:28] <mhall119> so the community can host it
[23:28] <paultag> I guess that's the right plural
[23:28] <paultag> mhall119: I don't think you understand
[23:29] <paultag> mhall119: having this community hosted is absurd, it's officially part of Ubuntu's structure, and having it hop from server to server is way more work then anyone wants or needs.
[23:30] <paultag> mhall119: I understand you need to look out for Canonical, but you see my point
[23:30] <mhall119> I see your point
[23:30] <mhall119> but you misunderstand me, I'm not looking out for Canonical here, I'm looking out for the community
[23:31] <paultag> mhall119: if you were, you'd want this in a fixture that did not have to be maintained
[23:31] <mhall119> why?
[23:31] <paultag> mhall119: no one is honored by the privilege to host a blog
[23:31] <paultag> it's a silly detail
[23:31] <mhall119> IMO, showing that the community can be trusted to do this is more important that the possibility of downtime
[23:31] <paultag> mhall119: exactly; give us access to an ubuntu server, ffs
[23:32] <mhall119> how can we ask Canonical to give cjohnston access to the loco-directory server, if we won't trust him to run the LC's blog?
[23:32] <mhall119> mind you, I trust him
[23:32] <paultag> mhall119: show that the community can be trusted to run a wordpress instance on some corner of the server somewhere
[23:32] <paultag> mhall119: that's a silly argument
[23:33] <paultag> mhall119: cjohnston should have access to the ld server because he maintains the LD. If you trust them to write code, why not trust them to run it?
[23:33] <mhall119> take your argument against community hosting, and replace "host" with "sysadmin", and you'll have canonical's argument against community admins
[23:33] <mhall119> what if cjohnston up and vanishes tomorrow?
[23:33] <paultag> mhall119: I don't care about community admins
[23:33] <paultag> mhall119: who cares? it's his key that's in there
[23:33] <mhall119> I care about community admins
[23:33] <paultag> mhall119: he's still under the CoC, and he's still the same person
[23:33] <paultag> it's not like him leaving has any affect anywhere
[23:34] <paultag> whereas leaving and having a server go down destroyes a channel of communication
[23:34] <mhall119> temporarily
[23:34] <mhall119> if cjohnston disappears and loco-directory has a bug, it doesn't get fixed
[23:34] <paultag> mhall119: look, we need a server. Canonical aught to provide hosting, and if not, let me put the theme on wordpress. Otherwise, I'm pissed. Or we don't do the blog. I don't care
[23:35] <paultag> mhall119: I don't need to do this in my free time, I don't want to fight some corp for half-assed hosting on some sideways box halfway to england
[23:35] <paultag> this is a silly detail, and it's blocking real work
[23:35] <paultag> I'm not trying to be an ass, but this argument is absurd, and I can't believe I'm having it
[23:36] <mhall119> FWIW, you can strip the ubuntu parts from the theme and upload it to wordpress if that's the option you want to take
[23:37] <paultag> mhall119: you understand how that leads to me wasting more time, and dealing with canonical legal's bullshit. I'm just going to call the blog blocked and not move forward with it. Let me know if Canonical's stance on this silly stuff changes.
[23:37] <mhall119> or figure out how to upload a custom, branded theme to wordpress.com
[23:38] <mhall119> paultag: it's in legal, don't expect quick action
[23:39] <mhall119> I can't believe that wordpress.com won't let you use trademarks on a hosted blog