| tdr112 | afternoon all | 15:16 |
|---|---|---|
| tdr112 | irc meeting tonight | 15:17 |
| czajkowski | aloha | 15:22 |
| tdr112 | hey cztab | 15:23 |
| czajkowski | week booked in ireland for July | 15:30 |
| slashtom | oh? when in july? | 15:40 |
| czajkowski | 4-8th | 15:41 |
| czajkowski | be in dublin one of the 5-8 days | 15:41 |
| slashtom | can we get together and steal cztab's ID to prevent her leaving? | 15:43 |
| czajkowski | heh | 15:43 |
| slashtom | should we arrange an ubuntu hour for when you're over? | 15:49 |
| czajkowski | I'll let you know closer to the date as it depends on an apointment in dublin what day I'm there if that's ok | 15:50 |
| slashtom | sure | 15:51 |
| czajkowski | ebel: http://www.kindle-maps.com/blog/yes-it-is-possible-to-cross-dublin-without-passing-a-pub.html | 16:47 |
| czajkowski | is making its way through ubuntu channels | 16:47 |
| ebel | indeed. | 16:47 |
| ebel | that in fact, would be me who did that | 16:47 |
| ebel | Was just talking to a journalist and getting photographed. | 16:48 |
| * ebel shall have to look in papers tomorrow | 16:48 | |
| czajkowski | :D | 16:51 |
| czajkowski | so adding that bto the ubunut ie team report :D | 16:51 |
| ebel | sure :) | 16:51 |
| ebel | openstreetmap is open data. | 16:51 |
| tdr112 | evening | 19:54 |
| airurando | evening tdr112 | 19:55 |
| ebel | ello | 19:55 |
| infoturtle | how do guys | 19:58 |
| airurando | who is going to chair? | 20:02 |
| ebel | I could... if no-one else wants to | 20:03 |
| infoturtle | go for it! | 20:03 |
| tdr112 | go for it | 20:03 |
| ebel | ok | 20:03 |
| ebel | #startmeeting | 20:03 |
| MootBot | Meeting started at 14:03. The chair is ebel. | 20:03 |
| MootBot | Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] | 20:03 |
| ebel | [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrishTeam/IRCMeetings/2011-06-15 | 20:04 |
| MootBot | LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrishTeam/IRCMeetings/2011-06-15 | 20:04 |
| ebel | our agenda | 20:04 |
| ebel | [topic] Review of previous action items | 20:04 |
| MootBot | New Topic: Review of previous action items | 20:04 |
| ebel | who wants to talk on that? | 20:04 |
| airurando | there was only one from may | 20:05 |
| airurando | ebel tog, dublin meetup 2pm saturday for hackathon to work on reapproval page | 20:06 |
| airurando | tdr112 and I did meet up at TOG with czajkowski online | 20:06 |
| airurando | progress was made. | 20:07 |
| tdr112 | a lot of work done more to do | 20:07 |
| infoturtle | hooray for progress! | 20:07 |
| airurando | I know ebel did some fancy work also on the reapproval page | 20:07 |
| * tdr112 still has to do the work he said he would | 20:07 | |
| airurando | page is at: | 20:07 |
| airurando | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrishTeam/IrishTeamReApprovalApplication | 20:07 |
| ebel | cool | 20:07 |
| ebel | (re-approval is later on agenda, we can talk then) | 20:08 |
| airurando | exactly | 20:08 |
| airurando | just about to say that. | 20:08 |
| airurando | that ends it for the reviow of previous action items. | 20:09 |
| airurando | *review | 20:09 |
| airurando | shall we move on ebel? | 20:10 |
| ebel | [topic] June Geeknic: Post-event review | 20:10 |
| MootBot | New Topic: June Geeknic: Post-event review | 20:10 |
| airurando | very quick. | 20:10 |
| tdr112 | a few new faces , which was good | 20:11 |
| tdr112 | airurando: has photos | 20:11 |
| infoturtle | :D | 20:11 |
| airurando | Geeknic took place during the lunch hour of 3DCamp in Limerick on Sat 11 Jun 11. | 20:11 |
| infoturtle | good to hear it went well | 20:11 |
| airurando | photos here: http://pix.ie/ubuntuie/album/412636 | 20:11 |
| airurando | 3DCamp was very enjoyable and while the geeknic was short and small it was good fun. | 20:12 |
| airurando | I recommend this kind of regional event whenever the opportunity arises. | 20:13 |
| airurando | tdr112 gave a presentation at this barcamp and he was excellent. | 20:13 |
| airurando | details of the event can be found at http://3dcamp.barcamp.ie/ | 20:14 |
| airurando | that it for this one from me. | 20:14 |
| * airurando finishes dinner | 20:14 | |
| ebel | airurando: can you take over? | 20:15 |
| * ebel phone call | 20:15 | |
| airurando | ohis that possiblw? | 20:15 |
| airurando | we'll muddle through | 20:15 |
| airurando | new topic | 20:16 |
| tdr112 | ebel: in the paper http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/computer-solves-joyce-pubs-riddle-2676281.html | 20:16 |
| airurando | [TOPIC] August Geeknic: Initial discussion | 20:16 |
| airurando | thoughts on the August Geeknic anyone? | 20:17 |
| airurando | Dublin I suppose? | 20:17 |
| airurando | leaving out the bank holiday leaves: | 20:18 |
| airurando | 12,13,14th | 20:18 |
| airurando | 19,20,21st | 20:18 |
| airurando | 26,27,28th | 20:18 |
| infoturtle | just starting the ball here, I'm down for any of those and will make this one | 20:19 |
| slashtom | poll it? | 20:19 |
| infoturtle | not picky on the date | 20:19 |
| slashtom | doodle | 20:19 |
| infoturtle | poll might be best | 20:19 |
| airurando | yeah we can doodle. | 20:19 |
| slashtom | location? | 20:19 |
| airurando | do we agree to leave the bank holiday off the list? | 20:20 |
| slashtom | aye | 20:20 |
| infoturtle | sure | 20:20 |
| airurando | slashtom: location suggestion? | 20:20 |
| infoturtle | I've always been a fan of easter island, but it's a bit away | 20:20 |
| airurando | tdr112 any ideas? | 20:21 |
| slashtom | how about walk then geeknic? | 20:21 |
| slashtom | greystones to bray? | 20:21 |
| airurando | how far is that? | 20:21 |
| slashtom | iirc tdr112 has done that walk | 20:21 |
| ebel | 1 or 2 hr walk iirc | 20:22 |
| * ebel off phone | 20:22 | |
| airurando | and geeknic in Bray? | 20:22 |
| airurando | back to you ebel | 20:22 |
| slashtom | or greystones, both have dart stations | 20:22 |
| tdr112 | gtg | 20:22 |
| airurando | I'm happy with whatever is decided | 20:23 |
| infoturtle | sounds like a class plan! | 20:23 |
| ebel | [agreed] poll for date of august geeknic | 20:23 |
| MootBot | AGREED received: poll for date of august geeknic | 20:23 |
| * airurando only has small chance of making this one anyway) | 20:23 | |
| airurando | I'll set up the poll (assuming it is easy) I'll chat to slashtom if I get stuck | 20:24 |
| ebel | location as a poll? people might add new ones? | 20:24 |
| ebel | doodle is very easy to use and set up | 20:24 |
| airurando | weather was ebel will you do it so please | 20:25 |
| ebel | i'll do the poll(s) | 20:25 |
| ebel | next topic? | 20:25 |
| airurando | yeah | 20:25 |
| ebel | [topic] LoCo Reapproval Application update | 20:25 |
| MootBot | New Topic: LoCo Reapproval Application update | 20:25 |
| airurando | some discussion earlier. | 20:25 |
| airurando | now to the nitty gritty | 20:25 |
| airurando | I reckon the experience section is good as is. | 20:26 |
| airurando | I believe we need to fleash out the roadmap section as much as we are comfortable with. | 20:26 |
| airurando | I suggest keeping it very high level | 20:27 |
| airurando | tdr112 has this on his to do list but I think we should all chip in | 20:27 |
| czajkowski | aloha | 20:28 |
| airurando | czajkowski chatted to me on this recently | 20:28 |
| ebel | FYI I got an email from launchpad saying ubuntu-ie will expire from approved-team group in a few days | 20:28 |
| ebel | on 2011-06-22. i'm guessing that's 2 years after we approved | 20:29 |
| airurando | I reckon we should complete the roadmap and submit shortly | 20:29 |
| czajkowski | yes | 20:29 |
| ebel | i wouldn't worry about it too much | 20:29 |
| czajkowski | well ye will expire on the 22nd | 20:29 |
| infoturtle | oh no | 20:29 |
| czajkowski | but the meeting is the day before so we can go before re approval then | 20:29 |
| infoturtle | all of us? | 20:29 |
| czajkowski | or we can give ye a months grace | 20:30 |
| czajkowski | infoturtle: the team..... | 20:30 |
| airurando | should we try to get the submission in for next Tuesdays meeting? | 20:30 |
| czajkowski | tbh the wiki is in great shape and I say yes | 20:30 |
| airurando | great stuff. | 20:30 |
| airurando | ebel? | 20:30 |
| airurando | slashtom? | 20:30 |
| airurando | infoturtle? | 20:31 |
| airurando | I'd be +1 for the next meeting also. | 20:31 |
| infoturtle | meeting where? | 20:31 |
| czajkowski | infoturtle: on irc | 20:31 |
| ebel | re-approval meeting next tuesday? possibly.... what time? I don't have time to do much work on wiki page betwen now and then... | 20:31 |
| infoturtle | can do! | 20:31 |
| czajkowski | in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda | 20:32 |
| czajkowski | the wiki is in great shape folks | 20:32 |
| czajkowski | a little road map | 20:32 |
| czajkowski | and tis fine | 20:32 |
| airurando | ebel: all that's needed is a bit of work on the roadmap | 20:32 |
| czajkowski | TRUST ME | 20:32 |
| czajkowski | I do have one massive question for folks though so when we;re on AOB stab me please | 20:32 |
| airurando | ebel? slashtom? | 20:34 |
| ebel | well if i don't have to do anything.... | 20:36 |
| czajkowski | nope | 20:37 |
| airurando | I'll hook up with tdr112 before the weekend | 20:37 |
| czajkowski | the wiki is a really good aplication | 20:37 |
| airurando | ebel if you could review and submit on Monday | 20:38 |
| ebel | though if we can wait, we might get more people at the IRC meeting.... | 20:38 |
| ebel | more to time to organise people to get them there | 20:38 |
| czajkowski | as long as it's in the hour before the meeting tis fine | 20:38 |
| airurando | we can start plugging it tonight | 20:39 |
| airurando | 6 days left | 20:39 |
| czajkowski | aye | 20:39 |
| airurando | surely thats enough time no? | 20:39 |
| * ebel is 50/50 so will go with consenseue | 20:39 | |
| czajkowski | I'll also be there and not voting as council | 20:39 |
| ebel | vote? | 20:40 |
| airurando | yeah | 20:40 |
| ebel | [vote] Should we submit our re-approval for next tuesday? | 20:40 |
| MootBot | Please vote on: Should we submit our re-approval for next tuesday?. | 20:40 |
| MootBot | Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot | 20:40 |
| MootBot | E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-ie | 20:40 |
| czajkowski | +1 | 20:40 |
| MootBot | +1 received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1 | 20:40 |
| ebel | 0 | 20:40 |
| ebel | +0 | 20:40 |
| MootBot | Abstention received from ebel. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1 | 20:40 |
| tdr112 | -1 | 20:40 |
| MootBot | -1 received from tdr112. 1 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0 | 20:40 |
| airurando | +1 | 20:40 |
| MootBot | +1 received from airurando. 2 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1 | 20:40 |
| airurando | infoturtle? | 20:41 |
| infoturtle | +1 | 20:41 |
| MootBot | +1 received from infoturtle. 3 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2 | 20:41 |
| czajkowski | tdr112: what's your reasonsing do you think it's not ready ? or you won't be there | 20:42 |
| ebel | czajkowski: we can re-apply the month after right? or what? | 20:42 |
| czajkowski | well we have 2 options. | 20:42 |
| tdr112 | i think we need more time | 20:42 |
| czajkowski | 1) add the wiki application to the bug | 20:42 |
| czajkowski | 2) we extend the time by a month or so | 20:42 |
| czajkowski | so up to ye really | 20:43 |
| czajkowski | honestly | 20:43 |
| airurando | tdr112: what do you think is lacking | 20:43 |
| czajkowski | given I look at these the whole time, the wiki page is in fantastic shape | 20:43 |
| czajkowski | tis clear | 20:43 |
| czajkowski | details all th work | 20:43 |
| ebel | majority seems to be in favour... | 20:44 |
| airurando | tdr112: more time for what? | 20:44 |
| tdr112 | i wont hold it up | 20:44 |
| tdr112 | go for it | 20:45 |
| czajkowski | oki dokie | 20:45 |
| airurando | is it agreed so? | 20:46 |
| czajkowski | count is 2 so yeah seems so | 20:46 |
| czajkowski | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrishTeam/IrishTeamReApprovalApplication | 20:46 |
| airurando | tdr112, if something is niggling at you speak now. | 20:46 |
| czajkowski | only issue as far as I can see is the flicker images missing which I dont know why they are | 20:47 |
| tdr112 | nope i will fix it over the next few days | 20:47 |
| czajkowski | okie | 20:47 |
| czajkowski | tdr112: I'm doing nothing all weekend hollar | 20:47 |
| airurando | does ebel have to submit it? | 20:47 |
| airurando | say on Monday? | 20:47 |
| czajkowski | tuesday is fine | 20:47 |
| ebel | [agreed] re-approval on tues | 20:47 |
| MootBot | AGREED received: re-approval on tues | 20:47 |
| czajkowski | just add it to the wiki the hr before | 20:47 |
| airurando | right oh | 20:48 |
| airurando | fingers and toes crossed. | 20:48 |
| czajkowski | stop over thinking | 20:50 |
| ebel | cool | 20:50 |
| ebel | so who is doing the nitty gritty submission stuff? | 20:50 |
| czajkowski | whatcha mean | 20:51 |
| czajkowski | nitty gritty ? | 20:51 |
| airurando | ebel: czajkowski said we just need to add it to the wiki | 20:51 |
| ebel | who's submitting it | 20:51 |
| czajkowski | anyone can add it to the wiki | 20:51 |
| ebel | ok | 20:52 |
| czajkowski | so if yer finsihed over the weekend just add it | 20:52 |
| ebel | ok, who ever is the last to finish on the wiki adds it to the agenda for the loco council | 20:52 |
| ebel | ? | 20:52 |
| czajkowski | yeah | 20:52 |
| ebel | cool | 20:53 |
| ebel | next topic? | 20:53 |
| airurando | ok | 20:53 |
| ebel | [topic] ubuntu-ie.org hosting options | 20:53 |
| MootBot | Vote is in progress. Finishing now. | 20:53 |
| MootBot | Final result is 3 for, 1 against. 1 abstained. Total: 2 | 20:53 |
| MootBot | New Topic: ubuntu-ie.org hosting options | 20:53 |
| airurando | I put this up after ebel's mail | 20:54 |
| czajkowski | well I can ask BK to do it again if we like | 20:54 |
| ebel | we can | 20:54 |
| czajkowski | I know thethomaseffect asked about domains names to be pointed but we needed to confirm the hosting | 20:54 |
| ebel | cause our BK sponsored hosting is due to expire soon | 20:54 |
| czajkowski | and then a mail to be sent to RT@ubuntu.com which I'll sort | 20:54 |
| infoturtle | I was working on that too and then got stuck with it | 20:55 |
| ebel | a few people (on the mailing list) have offered hosting | 20:55 |
| czajkowski | nods | 20:55 |
| airurando | yeah | 20:55 |
| airurando | appreciated for sure | 20:55 |
| ebel | However we need a webmaster/webmistriss not a host.... | 20:55 |
| czajkowski | well we have 2 people working on a site | 20:55 |
| thethomaseffect | Apologies, I'm here | 20:55 |
| czajkowski | :s | 20:55 |
| czajkowski | ah ha | 20:55 |
| czajkowski | :) | 20:55 |
| czajkowski | thethomaseffect: aloha | 20:55 |
| ebel | i have forgotten what was going on with the web hosting... | 20:56 |
| thethomaseffect | Hallo :) | 20:56 |
| czajkowski | I need someone to tell me what dns to point to where so I can resolve that issue | 20:56 |
| ebel | what's the problem with DNS? | 20:56 |
| czajkowski | ebel: I dont know it was mentoned in here by thethomaseffect | 20:57 |
| czajkowski | I assumed to point to new hosting | 20:57 |
| ebel | thethomaseffect: can you give an update on the new hosting? | 20:58 |
| thethomaseffect | The address needed is somewhere in the blacknight CP I'm quite positive, but since I've no experience in repointing domains I wouldn't be entirely certain | 20:58 |
| thethomaseffect | ebel: Sure, any parts in particular? | 20:58 |
| airurando | All well above my head. | 20:59 |
| ebel | well, i dunno... eh is it ready to go live? what have you done with it? how does it compare to the old hosting? | 20:59 |
| czajkowski | thethomaseffect: have you seen http://launchpad.net/ubuntu-community-webthemes | 21:00 |
| ebel | should we contact BK and ask if they can renew the hosting? or what? | 21:00 |
| thethomaseffect | I seen mention yesterday that ubuntu uk use wordpress instead of drupal. Wordpress is a lot easier to maintain and would fit the site better, since it's mostly used for news. I think since it's not an issue to archive the old site at archive.ubuntu-ie.org it would be a good move to use it. | 21:00 |
| thethomaseffect | czajkowski: Had a quick look, though design isn't an issue as soon as domain is repointed | 21:01 |
| czajkowski | the only reason I would chose BK is well we have some of them on here and on the ML | 21:01 |
| ebel | you don't *need* to change DNS / repoint domains to test. You can edit /etc/hosts (if that's what's blocking you) | 21:01 |
| czajkowski | and it's nice to support irish | 21:01 |
| thethomaseffect | ebel: I've done a theme, I'm cautious of installing any CMS unless it's on the domain that'll be the one used in the live version | 21:02 |
| ebel | once we have it ready, we can repoint the DNS to the new server | 21:02 |
| ebel | do/did you have access to the blacknight hosting to set things up? | 21:02 |
| thethomaseffect | couldn't I just put up an under consturuction page and link back to old site? | 21:02 |
| airurando | czajkowski: will you ask BK as you offered? | 21:03 |
| czajkowski | yup | 21:03 |
| czajkowski | can do | 21:03 |
| airurando | great stuff. | 21:03 |
| airurando | ebel action for czajkowski | 21:03 |
| ebel | [agreed] ask BK for more hosting | 21:03 |
| MootBot | AGREED received: ask BK for more hosting | 21:03 |
| ebel | [action] | 21:03 |
| MootBot | ACTION received: | 21:03 |
| ebel | [action] czajkowski to ask BK | 21:03 |
| MootBot | ACTION received: czajkowski to ask BK | 21:03 |
| ebel | thethomaseffect: well we /could/, but that's not very user freindly, and you can install any CMS on the BK hosting and then we can send users over when it's ready? | 21:04 |
| thethomaseffect | ebel: In the installation, all the links will be pointing at the wrong address. It'll be the absolute one rather than the one that'll be used. It's not good from a security perspective. It's possible there'll be no issue but what can go wrong, will | 21:06 |
| thethomaseffect | once the domain is repointed, unless i have personal stuff, i'm confident i can have most stuff migrated in just 48 hours | 21:06 |
| czajkowski | ok so atm, don;t we have access to the hosting | 21:07 |
| czajkowski | so can we try it out | 21:07 |
| ebel | yeah | 21:07 |
| tdr112 | Kill all Zombies | 21:07 |
| ebel | we ourselves can't change the DNS, we need canonical to do that. | 21:08 |
| thethomaseffect | myself and infoturtle ran into PHP issues while trying to set things up on the absolute url also. We could reach a index.htl but not a drupal/install.php | 21:08 |
| czajkowski | ebel: see that there is the info I need | 21:08 |
| czajkowski | if you tell me what you need changed | 21:08 |
| czajkowski | I'll do the mail and go talk to IS to get it done | 21:08 |
| ebel | thethomaseffect: you have access to the BK hosting, right? can you start looking at installing things? | 21:08 |
| thethomaseffect | once the somain is sorted out I'm sure it won't be an issue, my own hosting is blacknight and it was smooth sailing installing drupal and wordpress | 21:08 |
| czajkowski | but I am cluseless as to what you want DNS changed to | 21:08 |
| ebel | (I'm trying to make sure I'm not blocking anything) | 21:09 |
| thethomaseffect | ebel: like i said, i did, and can't until there's a domain | 21:09 |
| * czajkowski is lost | 21:09 | |
| ebel | right, so ubunut-ie.org and www.ubuntu-ie.org need to point to the new blacknight host then? | 21:10 |
| ebel | (any other domains) | 21:10 |
| thethomaseffect | aye | 21:10 |
| czajkowski | ok | 21:10 |
| thethomaseffect | and afaik no | 21:10 |
| ebel | I'll figure out the details fromk BK, then send them to czajkowski. who can pass that email onto canonical/whoever (since they know who) | 21:10 |
| ebel | then we'll tell ye and ye should be good to go? | 21:10 |
| czajkowski | ebel: thanks | 21:11 |
| czajkowski | if you tell me what I'll email it and then get it done ASAP | 21:11 |
| ebel | kewl | 21:11 |
| ebel | sorted | 21:12 |
| ebel | next topic? | 21:12 |
| airurando | yip | 21:12 |
| ebel | [topic] Launchpad team are sprinting in Dublin (from tdr112) | 21:12 |
| MootBot | New Topic: Launchpad team are sprinting in Dublin (from tdr112) | 21:12 |
| czajkowski | :D | 21:12 |
| ebel | tdr112 around? | 21:14 |
| czajkowski | as far as I know there is a pub picked | 21:14 |
| czajkowski | possible the barge | 21:14 |
| czajkowski | close to the hotel where they are staying lower leason st | 21:14 |
| ebel | ok. what dates is this? we could have an ubuntu hour? or similar? | 21:16 |
| czajkowski | cant find the emails :s | 21:17 |
| czajkowski | early july | 21:17 |
| czajkowski | as far as I can tell | 21:17 |
| ebel | ok | 21:18 |
| ebel | so while away... | 21:18 |
| ebel | unless tdr112 had anything special to say.... (or anyone else)? | 21:18 |
| czajkowski | it;s a laucpad | 21:19 |
| czajkowski | *launchpad | 21:19 |
| czajkowski | Canonical platform team and linaro over here | 21:19 |
| czajkowski | over 300 of them | 21:19 |
| ebel | lots | 21:20 |
| czajkowski | yup | 21:20 |
| czajkowski | pretty much as big as a UDS | 21:20 |
| ebel | cool | 21:21 |
| airurando | when is this happening? | 21:21 |
| czajkowski | begining of July | 21:22 |
| ebel | we should try to meet up? | 21:22 |
| czajkowski | aye tdr112 has contacted mat revell | 21:22 |
| czajkowski | from the laucnhpad team | 21:22 |
| tdr112 | i will send the details about the meet up when i know | 21:22 |
| ebel | cool | 21:22 |
| czajkowski | and the arangement is for a night in a pub | 21:22 |
| czajkowski | ah there he is | 21:22 |
| ebel | cool | 21:24 |
| ebel | so tdr112 you'll keep us informed? | 21:24 |
| tdr112 | yep | 21:24 |
| ebel | next topic? (AOB?) | 21:25 |
| ebel | czajkowski: you wanted to say something? | 21:26 |
| czajkowski | nope covered above | 21:26 |
| ebel | cool | 21:27 |
| ebel | AOB? | 21:27 |
| ebel | #endmeeting | 21:27 |
| MootBot | Meeting finished at 15:27. | 21:27 |
| ebel | thanks everyone for coming | 21:27 |
| airurando | thanks ebel | 21:27 |
| czajkowski | ebel: breaking news headingline | 22:04 |
| czajkowski | http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/computer-solves-joyce-pubs-riddle-509122.html | 22:05 |
| ebel | yeah tis craxy | 22:50 |
| ebel | it's all from Press Association. they do stories, then newspapers print them | 22:51 |
| ebel | (hence why it's the same story everywhere) | 22:51 |
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