[00:06] <valorie> akgraner: you've had a lot on your plate
[00:06] <valorie> you focussed on what was most important
[00:07] <akgraner> valorie, yep I've retired the overachiever, super hero wanna be cape...using it as a table clothe now ;-P
[00:08] <valorie> that's awesome
[00:08] <valorie> we need more examples of that
[00:08] <valorie> heading off burnout, etc.
[00:09] <akgraner> I don't need to prove anything to anyone I only need to the best I can, when I can, and with the tools I have.....
[00:09] <valorie> good for you!
[00:10] <akgraner> oh and knowing when to get out of your own way is important too - sometimes you lead, sometimes you follow, and sometimes you gotta know when to get out of the way (even when it's your own way)
[00:11] <akgraner> I'm not able to be online often (no one should be subjected to me when I am on my pain meds) though it would be a hilarious conversation I am sure
[00:12] <valorie> lol
[00:12] <akgraner> but it's getting all sorta out :-)
[00:12] <akgraner> how have you been?
[00:13] <valorie> I've been good
[00:13] <akgraner> seems like forever since I chatted with you
[00:13] <valorie> just got back from a sprint in Switzerland
[00:13] <valorie> which was AWESOME
[00:13] <akgraner> (or anyone else for that matter)
[00:13] <akgraner> I bet
[00:13] <akgraner> good for you!
[00:13] <akgraner> glad you had a great time
[00:13] <valorie> now I need to plan for the trip to Berlin for the desktop summit
[00:13] <valorie> got sponsorship, which is totally cool
[00:14] <akgraner> awesome!
[00:14] <akgraner> I have to figure out how I am getting to OSCON
[00:14] <akgraner> etc
[00:14] <valorie> OSCON is easy -- I drive
[00:14] <akgraner> but I'm sure that will work out as well
[00:14] <akgraner> haha
[00:14] <akgraner> I wish I could
[00:14] <valorie> there is one of the linuxchix who is looking for a roomie
[00:15] <akgraner> I gotta fly and find a hotel room ect
[00:15] <valorie> shall I forward her email to her?
[00:15] <akgraner> oh please
[00:15] <valorie> to YOU, I mean
[00:15] <akgraner> yep
[00:15] <valorie> to which email?
[00:15] <akgraner> akgraner@ubuntu.com is fine
[00:15] <valorie> are you coming to CLS too?
[00:15] <akgraner> I want too
[00:15] <valorie> ok, searching for it now so I don't forget
[00:16] <akgraner> guess it depends on if I do what I am told and let my knee heal
[00:16] <akgraner> I'm speaking at OSCON this year
[00:16] <akgraner> and my prior funding had fallen through
[00:16] <Cheri703> either of you guys coming out for OLF?
[00:17] <akgraner> thanks valorie
[00:17] <valorie> sent
[00:17] <valorie> alison chaiken is the one looking for a roomie
[00:17] <akgraner> Cheri703, I want to but again depends on funding and if Pete will be home to stay with the kids
[00:17] <valorie> I would have to get sponsorship to come to OLF
[00:17] <Cheri703> understandable
[00:17] <valorie> and for that I would need to do a talk, I guess
[00:18] <Cheri703> well, I've made the offer to a few people, no idea who/how many will take me up on it, but if you're willing to be an hour away and carpool down, my couch/yard/floor are available for sleeping arrangements :)
[00:18] <Cheri703> I have a tent :)
[00:18] <valorie> although maybe I could could squeek it in, since I had sponsorship for both Switzerland and Berlain
[00:18] <akgraner> valorie, I'm really enjoying seeing you making your mark on the FOSS world
[00:18] <valorie> that is nice to hear!
[00:19] <valorie> I particularly liked talking to the two gnome devels at the Randa sprint
[00:19] <akgraner> Actually I am enoying watching everyone's successes
[00:19] <valorie> and hope to do more gnome/kde networking
[00:19] <akgraner> hopefully I'll get back to bloging more
[00:20] <akgraner> writing for the online sites, the print mags, and doing the book just burned me out for a while on writing for the fun of writing
[00:20] <valorie> Cheri703: that is generous, but it seems worthwhile to stay close -- and it's fun to share
[00:20] <valorie> yeah, I was asked to do a book
[00:20] <valorie> but no
[00:20] <valorie> not now
[00:21] <valorie> well, participate, not be the sole author
[00:21] <akgraner> valorie, it's fun but can be really time consuming
[00:21] <valorie> also, a google recruiter tried to recruit me for tech writing
[00:21] <Cheri703> yeah, it's a bit of a hike, but I'll be going down each day (at least that's the current plan), so *shrug* we'll see how it works out :)
[00:21] <akgraner> sweet
[00:21] <valorie> I told her I would pass along her info for anyone who wants a google tech-writing job
[00:22] <akgraner> Cheri703, if I end up going I'll let you know....I'm sure I'll have room for someone
[00:22] <valorie> Cheri703: any chance we could get a few women to share a room, and include you?\
[00:22] <Cheri703> kk
[00:22] <Cheri703> maybe
[00:22] <Cheri703> :)
[00:22] <valorie> at LFNW, they include breakfast in the price of the room
[00:23] <Cheri703> there are a few youngsters in my area who are interested in attending, so carpooling is a way to get them to the event too :)
[00:23] <valorie> and that usually was lunch for me too - took an apple, yogurt and roll for the lunch, ate the eggs onsite, etc.
[00:23] <valorie> that's cool too
[00:23] <valorie> long drive every day though
[00:23] <valorie> time I would be using for sleeping!
[00:23] <Cheri703> yeah, I've done it before, used to go the other way before I'd moved
[00:25] <valorie> when is OLF?
[00:26] <valorie> oh, so: anyone interesting in Google tech-writing, talk to me
[00:28] <akgraner> well need to run for a while... chat with you all again laters
[00:33] <maco> akgraner: itnet7 said he wasnt really up for doing an Ubuntu SC table there again given how lead-balloon-ish it went over last year
[00:33] <maco> i suggested he shouldve taken email addies down for a mailing list last year to try to get it going
[00:33] <maco> of course, i suggested it a year too late :P
[00:33] <akgraner> yeah  - many volunteers didn't show up and it was in a crapy location
[00:34] <akgraner> next year will rock.. I am sure
[00:34] <maco> valorie: itd have to be a keynote to get any travel money out of OLF
[00:35] <maco> valorie: they have enough money to rent the venue, to not have internet access, and to pay for flight/hotel for 2 people
[00:35] <maco> (the 2 keynotes)
[00:35] <valorie> to NOT have internet access?
[00:36] <maco> right
[00:36] <maco> because net access would add $7000 to the operating costs
[00:36] <valorie> wow
[00:37] <maco> so unless they magically get a sponsor to pony up $7K for net access...
[00:37] <valorie> that's one cool thing about LFNW -- I don't think they pay much for the venue
[00:37] <valorie> and I think the sponsors do pick up the net access
[00:37] <valorie> which of course isn't awesome, but does work
[00:37] <maco> is there an entrance fee at LFNW?
[00:38] <valorie> no
[00:38] <maco> either theyve got a crackload of sponsors or theyve got a very affordable venue
[00:38] <valorie> it's held at a community college
[00:38] <maco> oh yeah, cheap venue then
[00:38] <maco> OLF is at the citywide convention center
[00:38] <valorie> I think some of the teachers are part of the group putting it on
[00:38] <valorie> 'spensive
[00:39] <maco> also > 1200 people
[00:39] <maco> can't go much smaller at that size
[00:39] <valorie> right, although a CC on a weekend, you could just use a lot of classrooms
[00:39] <maco> last year they were able to work out a deal for like $1000 to have some tiny number of IP addresses that way vendors could have access
[00:40] <maco> er....but then youd need to have like 20 tracks at once
[00:40] <valorie> and the student center for the merchants and such tables
[00:40] <maco> its not like the classrooms all attach together and can be joined into one room capable of holding 500 people
[00:40] <valorie> LFNW is more like 500 people, I guess
[00:40] <valorie> not sure
[00:41] <valorie> this year they gave out badges, so maybe they'll have more of a handle on attendence
[00:41] <maco> OLF is talking about charging like $10 if you show up without having pre-registered this year
[00:41] <maco> dunno if they're going to do it
[00:41] <maco> but SURPRISE! makes organizing harder
[00:42] <valorie> indeed
[03:59] <pleia2> ok, so I set up http://uw.princessleia.com/MyWiki/
[03:59] <pleia2> (sorry for the awful MyWiki bit, but I doubt it's worth the effort to change ;)
[04:00] <pleia2> I didn't copy over much data, just enough to get a general idea
[04:00] <pleia2> now I just need web gurus to help me fix the bugs at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-women.org
[04:01] <pleia2> let me know if you want to help, I'll get you sorted with a login and walk you through
[04:01] <maco> i'm up fora try
[04:02] <pleia2> yay!
[04:03] <maco> ooh actually, i should see if annalee'd like to help. she made a lovely website for her wedding
[04:04] <nigelb> I'm for a try too.
[04:19] <pleia2> thanks nigelb, setting some stuff up and then I'll get you a login
[04:34] <pleia2> ok, I have a plan for doing this testing now :)
[04:55] <pleia2> for folks who don't want to help with CSS, if you could check out http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/NewWikiTheme and review the new theme on the active wiki and submit bugs to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-women.org that would be awesome
[04:55] <pleia2> (or you can just mention/discuss bugs here)
[04:57] <nigelb> pleia2: can you check the edit bar with my theme
[04:57] <nigelb> Not sure if it looks better or worse now.
[04:57] <pleia2> nigelb: I like it
[04:58] <nigelb> orango and aubergine on hover
[04:58] <pleia2> nigelb: we should touch base with an accessibilty person to confirm it's all good though
[04:58] <nigelb> oh, ok
[05:00] <nigelb> pleia2: and refresh for space between content and right bar
[05:00] <pleia2> nigelb: oh that's much, much better
[05:01] <nigelb> :)
[05:01] <pleia2> maybe close it in a bit more?
[05:02] <nigelb> refresh :)
[05:02] <pleia2> yeah I like that
[05:02] <pleia2> does anyone happen to have a link to the theme elky originally did that AlanBell based this wiki theme on?
[05:07] <nigelb> pleia2: what's the bug about header and footer merging? http://uw.princessleia.com/MyWiki/Test looks "okay"
[05:09] <pleia2> nigelb: Header is an include, I added it, refresh
[05:09] <nigelb> aha
[05:10] <pleia2> I don't know whether it's actually a theme thing or something we can fix by editing Header and Footer
[05:11] <pleia2> but now that I look at it, tableclass="footer" controls everything, so that would be the theme
[05:12] <pleia2> and <tableclass="rightcolumn">
[05:12] <nigelb> the actual fix for it is that the div in which that table is enclosed needs a clear:both
[05:12] <nigelb> It works when I apply hat fix in firebug
[05:12] <nigelb> but, I don't know how to do it on moinmoin
[05:12]  * nigelb digs further
[05:25] <pleia2> hrm, my wiki doesn't have RecentChanges
[05:32] <nigelb> pleia2: is there supposed to be a python file with the theme?
[05:32] <pleia2> nigelb: it's at /srv/lib/uw.princessleia.com/data/plugin/theme/nigel-ubuntuwomen.py
[05:32] <pleia2> nigelb: do you need to be able to edit it?
[05:33] <nigelb> pleia2: not for now
[05:33] <nigelb> I just want to read it
[05:33] <pleia2> k
[05:33] <pleia2> I just gave it to you anyway
[05:33] <pleia2> :)
[05:33] <pleia2> might need an apache reload to work though, I dunno
[05:35] <nigelb> :)
[05:45] <pleia2> nigelb: I'd also like to have a look at elky's original idea for all of this so I can compare
[05:45] <nigelb> the problem is tables :|
[05:45]  * pleia2 didn't expect to get much done tonight - progress so far is good!
[05:46] <nigelb> heh
[05:46] <nigelb> 2 bugs fixed!
[05:46] <pleia2> we'll catch up with elky and AlanBell to help with the bugs :)
[05:46] <pleia2> and the 3rd is easy, just copying some images and committing them
[05:46]  * pleia2 gets the easiest bug \o/
[05:46] <pleia2> ;)
[05:46]  * nigelb high-fives pleia2 
[05:47] <pleia2> ^5
[05:47] <pleia2> sorry it took me so long to get this set up
[05:48] <pleia2> I do wonder why the theme on our wiki now has "Ubuntu Women" in big black letters at the top
[05:48] <nigelb> I didn't realize some of them were easy
[05:48] <nigelb> part of the theme I guess
[05:48] <pleia2> well it's not like that on mine
[05:50] <nigelb> hrm
[05:50] <nigelb> Its coming from the logo
[05:51] <nigelb> pleia2: somewhere on prod wiki, logo_string has been set
[05:52] <nigelb> sadly, all I can find is http://moinmo.in/HelpOnConfiguration
[05:52] <pleia2> ah
[05:54] <pleia2> ok, I'll take a look at that tomorrow and see if I can replicate on the test wiki
[05:54] <nigelb> :)
[05:54] <nigelb> I'm off to wwork, catch you all in a few
[05:55] <pleia2> thanks for your help!
[05:57] <nigelb> np :)
[16:35] <nigelb> AlanBell: ping
[17:02] <nigelb> AlanBell: need a bit of help with the wiki themeing.
[17:07] <pleia2> nigelb: ah logo_string was it, it's now showing up on the test wiki too
[17:08] <pleia2> still don't know why RecentChanges and the help docs don't exist though
[17:08] <nigelb> pleia2: I suspect there's a macro for recent changes
[17:09] <pleia2> yeah, no luck finding how to add that yet, it should "just work"
[17:10] <nigelb> pleia2: works now :-)
[17:10]  * nigelb added manualy
[17:11] <nigelb> I have an item on my things to do tonigh for the wiki, so I'll try to get that footer problem fixed.
[17:11] <nigelb> ooh, which reminds me.
[17:11] <pleia2> nigelb: oh, thanks :)
[17:11] <nigelb> Pendulum: Do you have a few minutes to test a change I made to the UW theme in the test bed?
[17:11] <nigelb> (Some time today, not necessarily now)
[17:12] <Pendulum> nigelb: yeah, I'll have time later (but not now because I'm getting ready for the a11y Q&A)
[17:13] <nigelb> Pendulum: cool, ping me when you're free and I'll let you know what to do :-)
[17:15] <pleia2> hmm, this wiki uses /img/moin-diff.png for the RecentChanges page, but the one we have installed on the canonical server uses /img/u-diff.png
[17:15] <Pendulum> nigelb: is this part of your attempting to turn me into a web developer?
[17:16] <pleia2> Pendulum: we need a11y review :)
[17:16] <pleia2> no webdev
[17:16] <nigelb> heh
[17:16] <Pendulum> pleia2: ah, okay. makes more sense :) ( nigelb has just been working on it with me & summit, so never know...)
[17:16] <pleia2> (well, we need webdev too, but not from people who don't want to do it!)
[17:16] <pleia2> haha
[17:16] <Pendulum> hey, I can say I've contributed code to something now! :)
[17:17] <pleia2> yeah :)
[17:18] <nigelb> Pendulum: Mike and I've had talks about summit and LD.
[17:18] <nigelb> I'm sticking wwith LD because it really has only me.
[17:18] <nigelb> erm summit
[17:18] <nigelb> LD has 4 people constantly behind it.
[17:18] <pleia2> one of them should fix time zones :D
[17:18]  * pleia2 runs
[17:19] <nigelb> yeah, Mike's on it :)
[17:19] <pleia2> that's good
[17:19] <nigelb> Timezone is really hard really. Because of DST coming into the picture.
[17:19] <pleia2> I know
[17:19] <pleia2> but having it working is vital for what LD is
[17:20] <nigelb> Yeah, its nice that stub (who wrote pytz) hangs around ubuntu channels (he works for C)
[17:20] <pleia2> why?
[17:21] <nigelb> because there's someone who's solved this problem before.
[17:21] <nigelb> I had to do this all over again at work.
[17:22] <nigelb> DST is the singular messed up concept ever :|
[17:42] <pleia2> isn't there a website where you can view what your page looks like in IE?
[17:42] <maco> browsershots
[17:42] <pleia2> thank you :)
[17:43] <nigelb> I'm not going anywhere near IE bugs :-)
[17:43] <pleia2> oh dear, this site takes a while
[17:44] <pleia2> nigelb: that's ok, we still need to test it though
[17:44] <nigelb> pleia2: yeah, we'll probably need to fix a few issues too.
[17:44] <nigelb> I hate doing it, but yeah, we gotta do it.
[17:45] <maco> i actually have a windows vm at work
[17:45] <maco> want me to take imagebin?
[17:47] <pleia2> I have an XP license so I'm trying to bring up the VM now
[17:48] <pleia2> oh dear, our .png files need work
[17:49] <pleia2> how do you make transparent pngs not suck in windows?
[17:49] <maco> you don't
[17:49] <maco> well
[17:50] <maco> i think you can get some javascript to make windows support them?
[17:50] <maco> its something ridiculously stupid like that
[17:50] <pleia2> :\
[17:50] <pleia2> "Why only versions 5.5 & 6? Because Windows IE versions prior to 5.5 do not support the filter which fixes the PNG problem, and version 7 (not yet released at the time of writing in January 2006) is reported to have fixed the issue entirely."
[17:50] <pleia2> ok, so maybe I need a newer browser
[17:50] <maco> same site i just hit
[17:51] <pleia2> this is IE 6
[17:51] <nigelb> pleia2: really, we shouldn't go as far low as IE6.
[17:51] <pleia2> do XP users user IE 7 now? do we care about IE 6?
[17:51] <pleia2> nigelb: ok thanks :)
[17:51] <nigelb> Most companies don't support IE6 anymore.
[17:51] <pleia2> ok cool
[17:51] <maco> even microsoft is trying to kill off IE6
[17:51] <pleia2> how do I make my XP use IE7?
[17:51] <nigelb> Google recently stopped IE7 too, but I think we should support it IE7
[17:51] <nigelb> pleia2: service pack I guess
[17:51] <nigelb> or update
[17:52] <nigelb> actually, install IE8, and install developer tools extension
[17:52] <maco> they had an ad in drupalcon's booklet apologising to web devs for the hell of ie6
[17:52] <nigelb> that should give you IE8 + IE7
[17:52] <pleia2> ugh, I don't know how to upgrade this
[17:53] <pleia2> ah, clicking on one of the shields
[17:54] <pleia2> no, that is just to turn on automatic updates
[18:00] <pleia2> nigelb: do you have a link to the dev toolbar? installing 3rd party things in windows scares me
[18:00] <pleia2> I don't want to install the wrong one and make a mess of everything
[18:00] <pleia2> pngs look fine in ie8
[18:00] <nigelb> pleia2: yeah, let me grab it for you :)
[18:01] <nigelb> pleia2: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=95e06cbe-4940-4218-b75d-b8856fced535
[18:01] <nigelb> its from microsoft, not third party :)
[18:01] <pleia2> oh good, thank you
[18:02] <nigelb> They sometimes do good things for web devs
[18:03] <pleia2> gosh, we are so spoiled by apt :)
[18:03] <pleia2> ok, how do I make this show it to me in IE7?
[18:04] <pleia2> (you can tell me to go away if you want, I'll figure it out eventually :))
[18:04] <nigelb> can you see the toolbar?
[18:04] <nigelb> (I'm quoting from memory, so its slightly flaky)
[18:04] <pleia2> yeah
[18:04] <nigelb> There's somewhere it says IE8 Mode
[18:04] <nigelb> clicking on that should give you other options
[18:05] <pleia2> there are compatibility modes
[18:05] <nigelb> I think one of them
[18:06] <pleia2> oh wait, it's in the developer tools popup thingy
[18:06] <nigelb> aha
[18:07] <pleia2> ok, it's kinda yucky in IE7, but not so bad as IE6
[18:07] <pleia2> I don't want to work on this now, but it's good to know I can check it and tackle it at some point, thanks nigelb :)
[18:07] <nigelb> pleia2: Np :)
[18:08] <nigelb> pleia2: I think I know how to fix IE7 problems. IE6 ones are harder.
[18:08] <pleia2> the biggest 7 one I see is the mouseover buttons at the top are poorly formatted
[18:09] <nigelb> I need to install IE.
[18:09] <pleia2> cut off on top and bottom, and wrap annoyingly
[18:09] <nigelb> I'm just pondering VM vs wine.
[23:31] <pleia2> created http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/BestPractices
[23:31] <pleia2> for now it's just stuff from my FCM article back in 2008
[23:32] <pleia2> so we'll want to add more, and reach out to teams that have been successful attracting more women (like Vancouver, BC)
[23:32] <valorie> that is a GREAT start, pleia2
[23:33] <pleia2> thanks :)