[00:13] <ochosi> hey everyone, feel free to check the latest version of greybird
[00:13] <ochosi> i changed a few (mostly small) things
[00:13] <ochosi> but it'd still be good to get some feedback
[00:13] <ochosi> get it here: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird
[01:08] <charlie-tca> ochosi: is that in Oneiric yet?
[01:12] <ochosi> charlie-tca: no, not that i know of
[01:13] <ochosi> charlie-tca: but you can test the pre-release (which makes it easier to change stuff for me)
[01:13] <charlie-tca> Okay, I will try
[01:16] <Unit193> I'll start testing again once they get a working CD...
[01:18] <ochosi> thanks guys
[01:18] <ochosi> most important thing is to find inconsistencies/bugs for the moment
[01:19] <ochosi> basically the theme is stable, but a few points could still be improved
[01:36] <charlie-tca> ochosi: download v2.1?
[01:41] <ochosi> charlie-tca: just pull the latest version from git. the 2.1 tag was created already a while ago (i only create git version tags with "major" changes)
[01:53] <charlie-tca> hm, the white on lighter gray is harder to read, at least in thunar
[01:53] <charlie-tca> Thunar highlights the selection, in lighter gray, using white text.
[01:54] <charlie-tca> Either the white has to be darker, or the gray needs to be darker
[09:37] <knome> awwhhh: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Xubuntu-linux-unoffical/184449754904337
[10:06] <mr_pouit> micahg: why not, I thought it was unmaintained upstream though.
[10:06] <knome> hey mr_pouit 
[10:09] <mr_pouit> hey knome 
[10:11] <knome> just read omg!ubuntu and i already feel like my brain are melting
[10:15] <micahg> hi mr_pouit 
[10:15] <micahg> 2011-05-28: Released version 0.1.8. 
[10:15] <micahg> which we even have in oneiric :)
[10:17] <micahg> been two years between releases
[10:18] <mr_pouit> yup, I read that
[10:20] <mr_pouit> ok, so I can replace evince by epdfview in the seeds
[10:21] <micahg> mr_pouit: k, sounds good, I guess if people complain, we can always switch back
[12:58] <Unit193> charlie-tca: Looks like no Alt or Live CDs for today. I can't help the rest of this week as I will be in a place with only dial-up
[13:06] <charlie-tca> The image we got is broken again/still. 
[13:06] <astraljava> :(
[13:06] <astraljava> Looks to be a Ubuntu Studio weekend for me, then.
[13:06] <Unit193> And no log for Live
[13:06] <charlie-tca> Note (The image); can count them on one finger today
[13:07] <Unit193> I have the log location (that you linked me) bookmarked on this browser
[13:37] <charlie-tca> hm, with the new wiki improvements, login is taking very long
[13:40] <charlie-tca> and preferences are reverted to defaults
[13:40] <charlie-tca> I wonder if I am still subscribed to any pages?
[13:46] <Unit193> I got python errors...
[13:50] <ochosi> charlie-tca: you said something about selection-colors yesterday, what were you referring to specifically? treeview-rows? elements in an icon-view?
[13:51] <charlie-tca> ochosi: the highlight
[13:51] <ochosi> charlie-tca: hightlight of what
[13:51] <charlie-tca> it is a reverse color, gray with white text in thunar, email, everything
[13:52] <charlie-tca> the line that shows what is selected at any time
[13:52] <ochosi> ok, so the treeview-hightlight/selection is not contrasty enough for you?
[13:52] <charlie-tca> might be a blue with white text
[13:52] <ochosi> yep, it's blue
[13:52] <ochosi> in fact i just turned the selected_bg_color a tad (really just a very tiny bit) brighter
[13:52] <charlie-tca> When I look in thunar detail view, there is my selection highlighted. The background the text is displayed on is too bright
[13:53] <charlie-tca> The tad was enough. It makes the white unreadable now
[16:19] <ochosi> charlie-tca: are you around?
[16:21] <charlie-tca> yes and no
[16:21] <charlie-tca> in a meeting, but go ahead./
[16:22] <ochosi> k, is the selection here more readable for you? http://imagebin.org/158748
[16:23] <knome> yummy :)
[16:23] <ochosi> i'm considering switching from dark-bg and bright-font in selections to the opposite
[16:24] <ochosi> it would give a lighter feel to greybird as a whole
[16:24] <charlie-tca> If the object of the highlight is to see the text, no
[16:24] <charlie-tca> it still is harder to see than the other text
[16:24] <charlie-tca> instead of lighter, go for better readability?
[16:25] <ochosi> not sure the two are mutually exclusive
[16:25] <ochosi> i just wanted to know whether this is readable enough, if not i'll just continue tweaking
[16:25] <charlie-tca> try darkening the background?
[16:25] <ochosi> i'd rather try the opposite, i'll post another screener in a few secs
[16:25] <charlie-tca> lighter gray with black is good, if the background is dimmed some
[16:25] <ochosi> yeah, that's the idea
[16:27] <charlie-tca> Any way to make the white background a bit offwhite/blue/something?
[16:28] <ochosi> yeah, i can make it a tad greyer/darker
[16:29] <ochosi> that'd make it look softer
[16:29] <ochosi> update: http://imagebin.org/158750
[16:34] <charlie-tca> What about making the text blacker?
[16:34] <charlie-tca> looks like grey on grey now?
[16:35] <ochosi> it's blue on blue, but with a lot of contrast already, the dark blue is close to black
[16:35] <charlie-tca> it makes the text harder to read
[16:36] <ochosi> everything that's not black-on-white or white-on-black is potentially hard/er to read
[16:36] <ochosi> ideally it would be good to read and look good
[16:36] <charlie-tca> the white on blue we used in Natty is good
[16:36] <ochosi> yeah, i can always get back to that
[16:36] <charlie-tca> should be able to go black on the blue highlighter for good readability
[16:37] <ochosi> but i'd prefer to try something new before
[16:38] <charlie-tca> what if you changed the background (try a different shade of blue, maybe, with less gray in it)
[16:39] <ochosi> oretty black now: http://imagebin.org/158751
[16:40] <charlie-tca> better
[16:40] <charlie-tca> sorry to be so difficult.
[16:40] <ochosi> that's ok ;)
[16:40] <ochosi> i mean if we find out that this idea doesn't work, i'll drop it
[16:41] <ochosi> but i think i'll reduce a few contrasts, e.g. make the progress-bars and the button-prelights a bit lighter
[16:42] <charlie-tca> Okay, I can test it
[16:42] <charlie-tca> But you know I don't run high-quality monitors and video cards, right?
[16:42] <charlie-tca> makes the low contrast much harder to use
[16:43] <ochosi> mhm, that might be partly why it's so hard for you to read the stuff
[16:43] <charlie-tca> but that should be true for most users, too, shouldn't it?
[16:43] <charlie-tca> what about a slight tint of the entire white background? 
[16:45] <ochosi> you mean something like this? http://imagebin.org/158755
[16:46] <ochosi> (this is a different theme now, but it uses a greyish base color)
[16:47] <charlie-tca> yeah, maybe not as much tint, but something to make the glare go down from a full white screen on a normal monitor. 
[16:50] <ochosi> something like this? http://imagebin.org/158757
[16:50] <ochosi> (we might have to change the scrollbar style if we darken this too much)
[16:53] <charlie-tca> I think so, I would not darken it more than that
[16:53] <charlie-tca> Might even go lighter on it. It only needs like 232 gray
[16:54] <ochosi> http://imagebin.org/158761
[16:55] <charlie-tca> That works! I can read the text in the highlight bar now
[16:57] <ochosi> hm, didn't change anythink in the highlight-bar :)
[16:57] <ochosi> must be psychological
[16:57] <charlie-tca> exactly, it is the offwhite that takes the glare away
[16:58] <charlie-tca> pure white makes it wash out.
[17:00] <ochosi> hm, i'll have to think about that a while
[17:00] <ochosi> if we do that i have to change the scrollbar-style and that is a pretty noticeable change to the theme's style
[17:01] <charlie-tca> A slight background tint?
[17:08] <ochosi> unfortunately the background-tint is not that easy with the current scrollbar-style
[17:08] <ochosi> do we really need the scrollbar-arrows?
[17:09] <charlie-tca> How do we scroll without them?
[17:10] <charlie-tca> The scroll bar blends into the background now, without the arrows, it will disappear completely
[17:10] <ochosi> usually people scroll by dragging the scrollbar
[17:10] <ochosi> not by clicking the arrows
[17:10] <ochosi> but anyway, we can keep the arrows
[17:11] <charlie-tca> Maybe it is just me. I tend to click in the scrollbar area, to grab the bar itself
[17:11] <ochosi> yep
[17:11] <ochosi> but you don't click the arrows, do you?
[17:11] <charlie-tca> but we could try taking the arrows away, and see what happens
[17:11] <ochosi> yeah, i'm actually not sure about firefox and a few other non-gtk apps
[17:11] <charlie-tca> I do, but very seldom. If I want to scroll one line at a time, I use the arrows
[17:11] <ochosi> we'll see
[17:12] <charlie-tca> Usually that is in the editors
[17:12] <charlie-tca> I don' t think firefox needs arrows, does it?
[17:12] <charlie-tca> I don't think I use them anywhere but in a text editor
[17:15] <ochosi> mhm
[17:15] <charlie-tca> ochosi: I think taking the arrows away will make for a cleaner interface, actually.
[17:15] <ochosi> k, i'll try it
[18:04] <ochosi> charlie-tca: still around?
[18:04] <pleia2> he's doing a classroom session
[18:04] <ochosi> oh ok, thanks
[18:30] <astraljava> Is anyone in here running natty with gnome?
[18:30] <ochosi> astraljava: sounds like you're in the wrong chan ;)
[18:31] <micahg> astraljava: well, I'm running it with Unity
[18:31] <astraljava> ochosi: I know. :) It was a desperate reaching to someone I thought might have a response. :)
[19:32] <ochosi> charlie-tca: i changed quite a few things in greybird now, i'll push the changes in the course of the next few days and ping you about it
[19:32] <ochosi> charlie-tca: i think all in all there are a lot of improvements, but maybe also a few more things i have to think about
[19:33] <charlie-tca> Thanks
[19:33] <charlie-tca> Let me know when to grab again
[19:40] <plantoschka> will greybird be default again in 11.10 ?
[19:44] <charlie-tca> plantoschka: yes, that is the plan
[19:44] <charlie-tca> with some refinements and fine-tuning
[19:45] <plantoschka> great, love it
[22:03] <charlie-tca> TheSheep: got the cache files cleared, moinmoin works with python 2.7! 
[22:04] <charlie-tca> TheSheep: thank you very much for your help with that