[02:07] <ScottL> troy_s1, lol, i've been busy otherwise, if i don't catch you soon, i'll write an email tonight or tomorrw
[02:07] <ScottL>  
[02:08] <ScottL> i still think we need to better quantify what -controls is for, i think we're missing some stuff like rlamerio suggested
[02:08] <troy_s1> ScottL: Hello.
[02:08] <ScottL> hi
[02:08] <ScottL> troy_s1, i have some simple questions i believe
[02:08] <troy_s1> ScottL: Was that directed at me? Control? I have no clue what that means.
[02:08] <troy_s1> LOL
[02:09] <ScottL> troy_s1, no, that was just a generalized statement to the channel
[02:10] <ScottL> troy_s1, i'm ignorant about how art should work in a F/OSS environment
[02:10] <ScottL> troy_s1, is it uncouth to ask for help working up some art with a spec for a fee or bounty?
[02:11] <troy_s1> ScottL: Erk.
[02:11] <troy_s1> ScottL: I'd start by saying that I doubt I have anything of value to bring to the discussion, just pure opinion. Granted, it's probably from an alternate viewpoint.
[02:11] <troy_s1> So... let's see.
[02:12] <troy_s1> ScottL: The biggest thing that absolutely stinks about our culture is the lack of culture. People.
[02:13] <troy_s1> There simply are effectively zero of the traditional creative minds in the culture. Some might cite person x or y, but let's face it, it's a joke. There aren't any. Period. Charlatanism.
[02:14] <troy_s1> So, to that end, from _my_ vantage, I'd worry more about people than the work.
[02:14] <troy_s1> ScottL: Sounds goofy I know, but it's rather like a garden. 
[02:14] <ScottL> troy_s1, well, that is sort of the problem...people
[02:14] <troy_s1> ScottL: I'd worry more about growing a particular plant than random worthless minds.
[02:15] <troy_s1> ScottL: And that means being utterly careful about what is in the garden, around the garden, and how it is cared for. You can't just have 'everyone' - it's a myth. In fact, certain personalities are like awful Ph levels in a garden.
[02:15] <troy_s1> ScottL: So it's a serious question. How to grow minds of a particular temperament.
[02:15] <troy_s1> 1) Avoid toxic situations.
[02:16] <troy_s1> Those situations are spec work. By spec work I refer _not_ to the money side, but rather the simple math of the "Let's have a contest"
[02:16] <troy_s1> It doesn't work. Never has worked. The work is crap. The process is crap. The output is crap. And... more importantly, with respect to growing, it absolutely, utterly, and positively _fails_.
[02:16] <ScottL> no, no contest, i have an idea, i want it effected
[02:17] <troy_s1> ScottL: So really, again if this is about people, the trick is to get _one_. Not several.
[02:17] <troy_s1> Look at Ubuntu proper... contests have done a world of good there eh? Not.
[02:17] <troy_s1> Junk.
[02:17] <troy_s1> There is no culture. Just random smatterings.
[02:18] <troy_s1> And that matters. Because minds of a certain type beget minds of a certain type. 
[02:19] <troy_s1> 2) Repulse toxic minds. Frankly, some idiot that shows up and starts talking about Fitt's this or Miller's that is just an idiot. There are no hard rules in art and design. There are applicable values and principles, but none are overarching and absolute. Context determines all. So having an idiot shouting out and trying to justify their worthless opinion with Fitt's this or xxx that will likely _repulse_ that mind you want.
[02:19] <troy_s1> And in a nutshell, that's where I sit. 
[02:20] <troy_s1> Pure gardening.
[02:20] <troy_s1> Soil. Seeds. Grow.
[02:21] <troy_s1> Not easy, but I'll go out on a limb and say that as a culture, we have utterly and miserably failed thus far. We have a creatively bankrupt and worthless cult of idiocy when it comes to art, design, presence, aesthetics, and all of those other valuable things.
[02:21] <troy_s1> ScottL: Phew. Blah.
[02:21] <ScottL> lol
[02:21] <troy_s1> ScottL: Find me _one_ person in Libre with a degree of study in art and design. I dare you. Even the musicians tend not to stick around.
[02:22] <troy_s1> ScottL: There is simply a gaping chasm. And if anyone is stupid enough to keep believing that they will magically eventually come, they are drinking far too much Kool Aid. In fact, there is a constant hemmorraging of those minds. Even they wander around, they are almost instantly repulsed by the cult of stupidity.
[02:23] <troy_s1> hemorrhaging even.
[02:24] <troy_s1> ScottL: Erp. I accidentally silenced you.
[02:25] <ScottL> we had a guy helping with artwork but he got some paying job that is keeping him too busy
[02:25] <troy_s1> ScottL: So?
[02:25] <ScottL> no, you didn't silence, i was helping son with food
[02:26] <ScottL> so, i still have an idea for a wallpaper that i lack the skills to do and i wanted to find someone to help me
[02:26] <troy_s1> ScottL: Then you are probably already in trouble. Start the obvious way - find someone who's work you value. 
[02:27] <ScottL> troy_s1, i can do that then, i'll start looking again
[02:27] <troy_s1> ScottL: If you let someone wander away
[02:27] <troy_s1> You have failed.
[02:27] <troy_s1> Which is precisely my point.
[02:27] <troy_s1> If you somehow manage to finally attract someone that does work that the team respects
[02:27] <troy_s1> and that person wanders away
[02:27] <troy_s1> that is cultural failure.
[02:29] <ScottL> i don't know if this guy is going away for ever (i don't think so, just until the new, paying project is done), but i don't want to wait three or six months
[02:29] <troy_s1> ScottL: If you value the fellow's work, ask her or him for another mind.
[02:29] <troy_s1> ScottL: It is networking to a certain extent. Asking a meat cutter for an illustrator's name is likely... well you get the idea.
[02:30] <troy_s1> ScottL: We have plenty of meat cutters, so to speak.
[02:31] <scott-upstairs> troy_s1, i suppose i could also hang out in #gimp or #inkscape or #whateverchannel and start bugging people to teach me how to do some of this
[02:31] <scott-upstairs> i've already picked up a bit here and there googling stuff
[02:31] <troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Do you really think you are going to find much talent in GIMP? That's exactly my point.
[02:31] <scott-upstairs> troy_s1, not really an artistic talent....no, i don't think i'll find that there
[02:32] <scott-upstairs> troy_s1, but i might be able to find someone to show me how to execute one part of my vision however...from a technical standpoint
[02:32] <troy_s1> scott-upstairs: It's just unlikely. Don't get me wrong, there's Revoy, Miranda, and a few others, but really, it's a bloody blight of talent. The tool likely is the starting point for that situation, but the practical reality is that it stems from the culture itself.
[02:33] <troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Maybe. My gut says that if you finally manage to attract someone that has the ability to execute, the likelihood that they are going to want to ink in a tattoo that someone else tried to scribble on a napkin is... low.
[02:33] <troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Not to sound too discouraging, but I think you can appreciate the problem there.
[02:33] <troy_s1> scott-upstairs: If you have an idea. Do it. If you don't think you are capable, then perhaps there is much to be learnt there. 
[02:33] <troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Fair?
[02:34] <scott-upstairs> yes, that is a fair statement(s)
[02:34] <troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Again, ignore the work.
[02:35] <troy_s1> scott-upstairs: If you somehow manage to pull a rabbit out of a hat and manage to get someone you respect to pay a hint of a shred of time, try to water that relationship.
[02:35] <troy_s1> scott-upstairs: It isn't easy just with that open ended clause, as you and I can probably agree yes?
[02:36] <troy_s1> scott-upstairs: So imagine how much incrementally more difficult it gets the moment that _anyone_ starts offering up their opinions.
[02:37] <scott-upstairs> i'm not sure i understand what you mean by "open ended clause"
[02:37] <troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Think about that for a moment. Think about if you had Dave McKean walk in for whatever reason. You suddenly have a tremendous bit of work. You have (A) Limited time to convince him that you value his work and that you would dearly love to have some of his work (B) You have a culture that likely will barf up something absolutely idiotic that will repulse him in a heartbeat (C) You have a culture that now wants t
[02:38] <troy_s1> scott-upstairs: The idea of having someone that you respect around with talent in a given capacity of the creative land is monumentally difficult in and of itself. The starting point is to build a relationship.
[02:38] <scott-upstairs> right
[02:38] <troy_s1> scott-upstairs: And even then, if other like-minded folks show up, then that is one person among a thousand... Not much reason for them to stay, right?
[02:38] <scott-upstairs> so i need to start looking at artwork again and emailing people again
[02:39] <troy_s1> scott-upstairs: I don't know. I personally think it is monumentally difficult. And most people simply don't give a crap about art and design and blah blah. Our culture shouts that out loudly.
[02:39] <troy_s1> scott-upstairs: So I have no real clue on how to do it. We have a toxic culture that has become somewhat of a death spiral in terms of creative minds.
[02:39] <scott-upstairs> troy_s1, you are making me seriously considering just learning how to do what i want, it seems simpler ;P
[02:40] <scott-upstairs> or at least more quantifiable
[02:41] <troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Is it though? ;)
[02:42] <troy_s1> scott-upstairs: The biggest alarm goes off when I hear someone say, speaking of photography and saying "I know what I want" and they don't practice photography.
[02:42] <troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Same goes for art, illustration, etc.
[02:42] <troy_s1> scott-upstairs: I'd encourage you to start with a mood board.
[02:43] <scott-upstairs> troy_s1, i believe i have a very good idea of what i would like to see and can describe it fairly well
[02:43] <scott-upstairs> troy_s1, what is a mood board
[02:43] <troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Assuming you've batted around who the hell it is for, what you are trying to do, what you are trying to communicate... try a mood board.
[02:43] <troy_s1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mood_board
[02:44] <troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Let me show you one that I did recently for a video.
[02:45] <troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Give me an email that I can send a request to.
[02:48] <troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Did you pm me? I don't have this nick registered.
[02:48] <scott-upstairs> troy_s1, no i didn't pm, i can send it here:  scottalavender@gmail.com
[02:49] <scott-upstairs> that's an open email that i frequently post in public
[02:49] <troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Hold.
[02:49] <troy_s1> scotta?
[02:49] <troy_s1> scott a lav..
[02:49] <troy_s1> okie.
[02:49] <scott-upstairs> aye
[02:49] <troy_s1> scott-upstairs: Check your mail.
[21:47] <rlameiro> Anyone knows whats the icon theme that Cory wants to use?
[22:28] <rlameiro> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1333955/cpu.tar.gz
[22:29] <rlameiro> this script now doesnt uses cpufreq-selector, like this it doesn depend on the gnome applets, also has a button to start it:D
[22:34] <rlameiro> ailo: ping
[22:56] <ailo> rlameiro, pong
[22:56] <rlameiro> ailo: how are you man?
[22:56] <rlameiro> how is going the Controls app?
[22:56] <ailo> Just fine. It's summer after all :)
[22:57] <rlameiro> :D
[22:57] <ailo> I'm very busy, so no real progress yet
[22:57] <rlameiro> hummm
[22:57] <ailo> Did you discuss something about that?
[22:57] <rlameiro> ok, i made a little script to set all the cpu cores to performance
[22:57] <ailo> Can I see it?
[22:57] <rlameiro> check the back log
[22:58] <ailo> I found them
[22:59] <ailo> Checking them out
[23:01] <ailo> Ok. I'll put in my vault. phew, time flyes
[23:01] <ailo> rlameiro, Did you get the gig at the symphony orchestra you told us about?