[11:38] charlie-tca: ping [16:50] happy fathers day to all the father here :D [16:53] mind you, it's not fathers day today all over the world ;) [16:54] :P but is here, is that bad to congratulate people? [16:56] nope, just pointing out that the date of fathers day varies across the globe [16:56] for example, it's in november in finland [17:03] ochosi: pong [17:03] charlie-tca, just went [17:06] I don't know how to make weechat show aways [17:06] /whois nick ? [17:08] I will try. But it seems like a lot to have to do that everytime you want to talk to someone. Xchat shows them in the nick list [17:08] tbh, i don't look at away messages much too [17:08] just knew he went since he just said "bye" :) [17:08] (@#shimmer) [17:09] I just talk to people anyway :) [17:09] heh, that works too [17:09] they'll probably see my message eventually [17:09] That' s what I been doing lately [17:10] Using weechat because xchat won't let dasher enter a line, it is quite different [17:11] oh, somebody is actually using dasher [17:11] Many of us do use it, we just don' t tell anyone [17:11] heh [17:13] You can usually tell by my tying speed [17:14] that doesn't tell anything [17:14] one could think i'm using the 10-finger system, but i'm not [17:14] (well, sometimes the typing is slower though...) [17:16] I think my response time is slower with dasher [17:18] Next step though is learning to use dasher to replace all the keyboard, instead of just the typing [20:09] Hello, I have a question about the package xubuntu-restricted-extras [20:09] In Xubuntu 11.04, this doesn't contain Java [20:09] Should I post this on Launchpad as a feature request or as a bug report? [20:12] In the description of the package xubuntu-restricted-extras in Synaptic, it wrongly claims that it does contain Java [20:12] bug report [20:12] Will do. :-) [20:18] Done: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-restricted-extras/+bug/799514 [20:18] Ubuntu bug 799514 in ubuntu-restricted-extras (Ubuntu) "xubuntu-restricted-extras doesn't contain Java" [Undecided,New] [21:59] Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 60 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings [22:45] charlie-tca: wiki is offline, so idk if you need extra time to pull your agenda together [22:46] heh, I haven' t been able to login since the latest change on the 16th [22:46] Are you gonna chair today? [22:47] I have a peronal moinmoin running, with a copy of the agenda [22:47] charlie-tca: wasn't planning on it [22:47] Aw, com'n [22:56] the chair doesn't fit me well :) [22:57] heh [22:57] I remember when I said something similar [22:59] charlie-tca, didn't you sent the agenda to the mailing list too with the reminder? [22:59] yup [23:00] Are ready to begin [23:01] Welcome to the weekly xubuntu commity meeting [23:02] We keep the agenda at [23:02] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings [23:02] however, due to problems with the wiki, it is: [23:02] * Old business - all [23:02] * Charlie to dig for the xscreensaver updates, and put in an SRU [23:02] * Team updates - Team Leads [23:02] * Packaging & Development [23:02] * Changes to the default applications [23:02] * Bug Triage & Testing [23:02] * Daily testing versus milestone testing [23:02] * Website & Marketing [23:02] * There is a current discussion on the xubuntu-devel mailing list [23:02] * Artwork [23:02] * Documentation [23:03] * Announcements - Project Lead [23:03] * Governance structure - all [23:03] * The governancy part of the current Strategy Document can be found at [[Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Xubuntu Governance & Team Structure]] [23:03] * Any Other Business - all/anyone [23:03] I forgot to dig up the xscreensaver info [23:03] so, lets go ahead with the teams [23:03] Team updates - Team Leads [23:03] * Packaging & Development [23:04] mr_pouit or micahg : your turn [23:04] I can do it ;> [23:04] * charlie-tca nods [23:04] hi mr_pouit [23:04] less changes this week I think, only replaced evince by epdfview as discussed a few days ago [23:05] then a few merges/syncs from Debian by micahg and me [23:05] so we generally have to kick out most of the gnome-stuff now due to dependency issues? [23:05] what's happening with GTK3 in Xubuntu 11.10? [23:05] it is easier than fighting with gnome3 and gtk3 if we don' t have to [23:06] well, let's see what happens, if epdfview is too crappy, we can still go back to evince-gtk [23:06] those packages are still going to be in main and will be installed by end-users, though... [23:06] Users can still install any application, it will pull in the required dependencies and recommends it needs [23:06] We don't have to that by default though [23:07] mr_pouit: really wasn't meant as critique but as an honest question, how much/what will we have to potentially drop in the worst case? [23:07] it's very likely we'll still have gtk+3.0 shipped anyway [23:07] xrdodrx: GTK3 itself will probably be on the CD due to some shared apps, but Xfce is staying on GTK2 through 4.10, so Xubuntu's default will be GTK2 through the LTS [23:08] Thank you, mr_pouit [23:08] anything else for you? [23:08] mr_pouit: isn't yelp used by some of the applications still? [23:09] ochosi: I think most "common" tools will be ported to gtk3, so we'd have to drop them as well, not really what we want [23:09] yelp is a good example [23:09] (yeah, for instance, yelp is already ported) [23:09] micahg, I see, but there's really no avoiding GTK3 in the long run ;) [23:09] However, as announced several times, Xubuntu will not push gtk3 more than needed [23:10] xrdodrx: no, definitely not, and it's not GTK3 so much as the GNOME deps related to GTK3 apps [23:10] we won't port 4.8 to gtk3 for the fun ;-) [23:10] xrdodrx: but the long run for us in about 12.10 [23:10] or later [23:10] right, if Xfce sticks with the year release cycles, it'll be 13.04 before Xubuntu is GTK3 [23:10] The less we have to fight gnome applications, the better off we are [23:11] GTK3 and GTK2 have to be themed separately, so it's not going to be a simple thing, I'm sure. [23:11] xrdodrx: no, we can have a GTK3 theme used by both [23:11] the desktop team has a theming engine that I believe we can use as well [23:12] Any other questions? [23:12] \o [23:12] go ahead, micahg [23:13] mr_pouit: I noticed that xubuntu-restricted-extras still ships icedtea6-plugin, is this something worth moving to the default recommends (i.e. how important is Java in the default browser experience (it's in main, so no need to be in restricted-extras anymore) [23:14] * GridCube is here for the meeting [23:14] do you know what ubuntu-desktop is doing? [23:15] I guess moving it into the seeds is safe [23:15] well, it's still in restricted extras for the moment [23:15] I want to talk to mvo tomorrow about it [23:15] java is already removed from the package, but the description needs to be updated [23:15] although I doubt Ubuntu will take it due to space concers [23:15] *concerns [23:15] charlie-tca: no, it has openjdk [23:15] it does? [23:15] http://pad.lv/799514 [23:15] Launchpad bug 799514 in ubuntu-restricted-extras (Ubuntu) "xubuntu-restricted-extras doesn't contain Java" [Undecided,New] [23:15] aka icedtea6-plugin [23:16] oh [23:16] yes, that's what prompted this thinking [23:16] which will pull in openjre or openjdk? [23:16] it's in xubuntu-restricted-addons which is a depends of the restricted-extras [23:16] charlie-tca: openjdk [23:17] we can decide later if we have the space to do it [23:17] I just wanted to bring it up early [23:17] Let's find out what Ubuntu is going to do with it, then [23:18] like I said, I doubt they'll take it due to space concerns [23:18] ACTION - micahg to find what Ubuntu-desktop does with java in restricted-extras [23:19] Don't want to just let it drop [23:19] TOPIC - Bugs and Testing [23:19] We have images again! We can start testing tomorrow, We just pick up at the 19th on the chart [23:20] * micahg would like to bring up https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2011-June/007830.html [23:20] well, 20th, tomorrow [23:20] As far as I know, the live desktop is broken [23:20] sorry, should've waited [23:21] * micahg thought some fixes landed on Friday to fix that [23:21] Maybe for Ubuntu, but we did not get them [23:22] micahg brings up a valid point. Call For Testing: Natty Firefox users [23:22] We need to test firefox in natty ASAP [23:22] I'm one, and can definitely test this :D [23:22] See the reference micahg gave above [23:22] I'm reading it right now :) [23:22] If you need help, let us know. [23:23] Unfortunately, Ubuntu gets the image fixes first. We usually have to go back and push to get them in our images [23:24] Any questions for bugs and testing? [23:24] i can test tomorrow [23:24] great! [23:24] TOPIC - Website & Marketing [23:24] pleia2, knome, plantoschka [23:24] you guys are up now [23:25] can i say something? [23:25] Well, then [23:25] sure [23:25] go ahead, GridCube [23:26] i would like that in the main xubuntu site there where a FAQ of simple tasks, like "how to listen music?" or stuff like that, but on various idioms, like spañish, english and so on [23:27] i don't really know how to set that up, but i will be willing to translate a simple like "Top ten questions" on spañish [23:28] micahg, I think I found a small error in your instructions, you recommend doing sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade but sudo apt-get upgrade is probably the way to go :) [23:28] (concerning testing firefox 5 on Xubuntu Natty) [23:28] xrdodrx: nope, won't upgrade the langpacks [23:28] oh, okay [23:28] pleia2 or knome : Is such a thing possible as GridCube proposes possible on the website? [23:28] i second GridCube's idea/s, but not sure who'll do the work ;) [23:28] GridCube, sounds good [23:29] xrdodrx: sudo apt-get upgrade does not pull in a lot of stuff that needs to upgrade [23:29] ACTION - investigate putting the "TOP 10" in spanish on the website [23:29] guess I'll have to redo it as dist-upgrade, then, unless there's a way to cancel apt-get during the downloads process [23:30] xrdodrx: yep, you can just CTRL+C [23:30] GridCube: you would translate it, right? [23:30] micahg, alright, I hesitate to do that to any package manager ;) [23:30] If we have a translation, it is relatively minor to simply publish it on the website [23:31] I could probably assist GridCube with this, I speak native English and am quite proficient (I'd say, at least ;) ) in Spanish [23:31] it might be good too have a starter's guide on the website :D [23:32] GridCube: who puts the list together? [23:32] Do you have things in mind already, or do we need to gather stuff to be translated? [23:33] xrdodrx: What about using VirtualBox to run it, so it stays separate from your installation? [23:35] charlie-tca, it's no trouble at all [23:35] TOPIC - Artwork [23:35] ochosi: your turn [23:36] k, well as most of you know there's a git-repo for greybird [23:36] charlie-tca, I often find it's better to test software on real hardware, and if it's on my install I'll def be testing it quite a bit ;) [23:36] recently i've been testing a few noticeable changes to greybird [23:37] in the beginning i thought i'd just do a few additional styles for specific apps, but now i think the theme will change a bit for our next release [23:37] i'm still very much in the experimenting/testing phase [23:37] so feel free to pull the theme every once in a while and test it [23:37] i'm very happy to get feedback, but please don't start shouting too loud because of changes i make in git [23:38] xrdodrx: then you need to become familiar with sudo apt-get dist-upgrade, since apt-get upgrade won't upgrade the kernel, either. [23:38] i don't consider much in the current state is 'final' [23:38] ochosi: can you give the URL, please [23:38] the general feel of the theme is supposedly lighter though [23:38] sure, https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird [23:38] charlie-tca, I'm sorry, forgive that error on my part, I didn't really understand the difference totally, all I had to do was cancel the upgrade and redo it as dist-upgrade :) [23:38] charlie-tca, sorry for the delay, yes i will help translate [23:39] instructions of how to clone the repo and keep it up-to-date are on that page as well [23:39] Are the changes working for both oneiric and natty? [23:39] I'm using FF 5 now [23:39] charlie-tca: are you asking me? [23:39] yes, ochosi [23:39] it's a bit noisy here atm :) [23:39] sorry [23:39] at the moment those changes are *only* tested with natty [23:39] oneiric is still too unstable for me [23:39] the gtk3 port of greybird is only a draft [23:40] charlie-tca, i don't really know what are the top 10 questions on #xubuntu mabye the moving the panels, using compiz, and i dont know what else [23:41] So, we can have testers pull in the new theme. They can try it on either natty or oneiric. [23:41] yep [23:41] GridCube: Let's take it to the xubuntu-devel mailing list, then. [23:41] ochosi: sorry. [23:41] :) [23:42] Have you got anything else we want to know? [23:42] ochosi: ^ ^ [23:42] ]please let him finish now, guys [23:42] good question, well, are there any questions? ;) [23:42] o/ [23:42] o/ [23:42] k, one at a time [23:43] go ahead, GridCube [23:43] will there be a proper *places* menu on the basic panels? [23:43] places has returned in oneiric [23:44] oh. sorry for asking then [23:44] micahg: what do you mean? does it not depend on thunar-vfs anymore or is it part of the default panel config now? [23:44] The question is will the art team include it on a panel, or will we keep thunar? [23:44] ochosi: it does not [23:45] It is still a plugin, to be added. It no longer depends on thunar-vfs. [23:45] the gio patch has been included, and we put it back in the default package set [23:45] ok, that sounds good [23:45] but it's not in the default panel config [23:45] well we haven't discussed panel configs for oneiric at all yet [23:45] i'd say we should start by evaluating what we currently have [23:46] +1 [23:46] (and check the reviews for feedback) [23:46] Want to take it up next meeting? [23:46] mr_pouit: ah, sorry, thought you put it back in the default config [23:47] ACTION - GridCube to begin a discussion on the ML about what should be translated [23:47] micahg: oh no, if I change the default config without discussion, too many people will want to kill me (at least charlie-tca and ochosi ;D) [23:47] i'm not part of the mailing list [23:48] charlie-tca: tbh this week is a bit busy for me, not sure i'll manage to check reviews. if anyone else could do it i'm fine with discussing it [23:48] Let's do it on the ML, then? [23:48] Get more people involved in it, maybe, without taking a bunch of time here? [23:49] ACTION - start ML discussion on panels, reviews of current panels, launchers on panels, etc [23:50] mr_pouit: I leave it to ochosi with my moaning to help guide it :) [23:50] k [23:50] i mean just to be straight-forward: i'm fine with the current setup [23:50] i like it a lot [23:50] o/ [23:51] go ahead, GridCube [23:51] on the artwork things, can it be made that lightgdm uses the same wallpaper that xubuntu session uses? or an easy way to fix it up? [23:52] yes, it can be made easy to fix it [23:52] It already is, tbh [23:52] :) [23:52] :P that could be part of the top 10 questions [23:52] lightDM theming will be dealt with as soon as i start testing/workin on oneiric [23:52] which is pretty soon [23:52] same goes for gtk3 [23:52] I have mine themed to the desktop wallpaper already [23:53] charlie-tca: what was your question? [23:53] on that same topic, what about user avatars? [23:53] harder [23:53] We have to see what our front-end brings in [23:53] okay [23:53] ochosi: any kind of time estimate to pull the new themes for testing? [23:54] Like, weekly, two-weeks, anything? [23:54] you mean to oneiric? [23:54] I imagine that once LightDM gets included in default Ubuntu there will be many GUI front-ends to customizing it, GridCube [23:54] from git [23:54] As a general guide, should a tester pull from git every two weeks or ??? [23:55] hm, tbh my work-schedule is not so clear that i could give you real guidance [23:55] xrdodrx: lightdm is already the default in Ubuntu [23:55] maybe it's best to check my commit messages [23:55] if there is something noteworthy i usually write it down [23:55] micahg, for natty? [23:55] so maybe check every week or every other week [23:55] I meant for oneiric :) [23:56] xrdodrx: oneiric [23:56] right now is definitely a good time [23:56] to pull and test the theme [23:57] Okay testers! pull the new themes every two weeks and test it in either natty or oneiric unless we tell you pull it sooner [23:57] and this week would be a great time to pull it, within a day or two, if possible! [23:57] :) will do [23:58] feedback would be best directed directly to me [23:58] Thank you very much, ochosi [23:58] either via email or on irc [23:58] no [23:58] problem [23:58] Any other questions for things covered so far? [23:59] If not, we have a couple of Announcements [23:59] TOPIC - Announcements [23:59] Debian Import Freeze: June 30 [23:59] 10.04.3 Freeze: June 30 [23:59] Oneiric Alpha 2: July 7 [23:59] Testing for Alpha2: July 5 [23:59] The wiki is causing a few headaches after the latest change. [23:59] Please file bugs and issues with it according to the announcement: