[11:38] <ochosi> charlie-tca: ping
[16:50] <GridCube> happy fathers day to all the father here :D
[16:53] <knome> mind you, it's not fathers day today all over the world ;)
[16:54] <GridCube> :P but is here, is that bad to congratulate people?
[16:56] <knome> nope, just pointing out that the date of fathers day varies across the globe
[16:56] <knome> for example, it's in november in finland
[17:03] <charlie-tca> ochosi: pong
[17:03] <knome> charlie-tca, just went
[17:06] <charlie-tca> I don't know how to make weechat show aways
[17:06] <knome> /whois nick ?
[17:08] <charlie-tca> I will try. But it seems like a lot to have to do that everytime you want to talk to someone. Xchat shows them in the nick list
[17:08] <knome> tbh, i don't look at away messages much too
[17:08] <knome> just knew he went since he just said "bye" :)
[17:08] <knome> (@#shimmer)
[17:09] <pleia2> I just talk to people anyway :)
[17:09] <charlie-tca> heh, that works too
[17:09] <pleia2> they'll probably see my message eventually
[17:09] <charlie-tca> That' s what I been doing lately
[17:10] <charlie-tca> Using weechat because xchat won't let dasher enter a line, it is quite different
[17:11] <knome> oh, somebody is actually using dasher
[17:11] <charlie-tca> Many of us do use it, we just don' t tell anyone
[17:11] <knome> heh
[17:13] <charlie-tca> You can usually tell by my tying speed
[17:14] <knome> that doesn't tell anything
[17:14] <knome> one could think i'm using the 10-finger system, but i'm not
[17:14] <knome> (well, sometimes the typing is slower though...)
[17:16] <charlie-tca> I think my response time is slower with dasher
[17:18] <charlie-tca> Next step though is learning to use dasher to replace all the keyboard, instead of just the typing
[20:09] <Pjotr> Hello, I have a question about the package xubuntu-restricted-extras
[20:09] <Pjotr> In Xubuntu 11.04, this doesn't contain Java
[20:09] <Pjotr> Should I post this on Launchpad as a feature request or as a bug report?
[20:12] <Pjotr> In the description of the package xubuntu-restricted-extras in Synaptic, it wrongly claims that it does contain Java
[20:12] <charlie-tca> bug report 
[20:12] <Pjotr> Will do. :-)
[20:18] <Pjotr> Done: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-restricted-extras/+bug/799514
[21:59] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 60 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[22:45] <micahg> charlie-tca: wiki is offline, so idk if you need extra time to pull your agenda together
[22:46] <charlie-tca> heh, I haven' t been able to login since the latest change on the 16th
[22:46] <charlie-tca> Are you gonna chair today?
[22:47] <charlie-tca> I have a peronal moinmoin running, with a copy of the agenda
[22:47] <micahg> charlie-tca: wasn't planning on it
[22:47] <charlie-tca> Aw, com'n
[22:56] <micahg> the chair doesn't fit me well :)
[22:57] <charlie-tca> heh
[22:57] <charlie-tca> I remember when I said something similar
[22:59] <DarkEra> charlie-tca, didn't you sent the agenda to the mailing list too with the reminder?
[22:59] <charlie-tca> yup
[23:00] <charlie-tca> Are ready to begin
[23:01] <charlie-tca> Welcome to the weekly xubuntu commity meeting
[23:02] <charlie-tca> We keep the agenda at
[23:02] <charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[23:02] <charlie-tca> however, due to problems with the wiki, it is:
[23:02] <charlie-tca>  * Old business - all
[23:02] <charlie-tca>   * Charlie to dig for the xscreensaver updates, and put in an SRU
[23:02] <charlie-tca>  * Team updates - Team Leads
[23:02] <charlie-tca>   * Packaging & Development
[23:02] <charlie-tca>    * Changes to the default applications
[23:02] <charlie-tca>   * Bug Triage & Testing
[23:02] <charlie-tca>    * Daily testing versus milestone testing
[23:02] <charlie-tca>   * Website & Marketing
[23:02] <charlie-tca>    * There is a current discussion on the xubuntu-devel mailing list
[23:02] <charlie-tca>   * Artwork
[23:02] <charlie-tca>   * Documentation
[23:03] <charlie-tca>  * Announcements - Project Lead
[23:03] <charlie-tca>  * Governance structure - all
[23:03] <charlie-tca>   * The governancy part of the current Strategy Document can be found at [[Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Xubuntu Governance & Team Structure]]
[23:03] <charlie-tca>  * Any Other Business - all/anyone
[23:03] <charlie-tca> I forgot to dig up the xscreensaver info
[23:03] <charlie-tca> so, lets go ahead with the teams
[23:03] <charlie-tca> Team updates - Team Leads
[23:03] <charlie-tca>   * Packaging & Development
[23:04] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit or micahg : your turn
[23:04] <mr_pouit> I can do it ;>
[23:04]  * charlie-tca nods
[23:04] <micahg> hi mr_pouit 
[23:04] <mr_pouit> less changes this week I think, only replaced evince by epdfview as discussed a few days ago
[23:05] <mr_pouit> then a few merges/syncs from Debian by micahg and me
[23:05] <ochosi> so we generally have to kick out most of the gnome-stuff now due to dependency issues?
[23:05] <xrdodrx> what's happening with GTK3 in Xubuntu 11.10?
[23:05] <charlie-tca> it is easier than fighting with gnome3 and gtk3 if we don' t have to
[23:06] <mr_pouit> well, let's see what happens, if epdfview is too crappy, we can still go back to evince-gtk
[23:06] <xrdodrx> those packages are still going to be in main and will be installed by end-users, though...
[23:06] <charlie-tca> Users can still install any application, it will pull in the required dependencies and recommends it needs
[23:06] <charlie-tca> We don't have to that by default though
[23:07] <ochosi> mr_pouit: really wasn't meant as critique but as an honest question, how much/what will we have to potentially drop in the worst case?
[23:07] <mr_pouit> it's very likely we'll still have gtk+3.0 shipped anyway
[23:07] <micahg> xrdodrx: GTK3 itself will probably be on the CD due to some shared apps, but Xfce is staying on GTK2 through 4.10, so Xubuntu's default will be GTK2 through the LTS
[23:08] <charlie-tca> Thank you, mr_pouit 
[23:08] <charlie-tca> anything else for you?
[23:08] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: isn't yelp used by some of the applications still?
[23:09] <mr_pouit> ochosi: I think most "common" tools will be ported to gtk3, so we'd have to drop them as well, not really what we want
[23:09] <micahg> yelp is a good example
[23:09] <mr_pouit> (yeah, for instance, yelp is already ported)
[23:09] <xrdodrx> micahg, I see, but there's really no avoiding GTK3 in the long run ;)
[23:09] <charlie-tca> However, as announced several times, Xubuntu will not push gtk3 more than needed
[23:10] <micahg> xrdodrx: no, definitely not, and it's not GTK3 so much as the GNOME deps related to GTK3 apps
[23:10] <mr_pouit> we won't port 4.8 to gtk3 for the fun ;-)
[23:10] <charlie-tca> xrdodrx: but the long run for us in about 12.10
[23:10] <charlie-tca> or later
[23:10] <micahg> right, if Xfce sticks with the year release cycles, it'll be 13.04 before Xubuntu is GTK3
[23:10] <charlie-tca> The less we have to fight gnome applications, the better off we are
[23:11] <xrdodrx> GTK3 and GTK2 have to be themed separately, so it's not going to be a simple thing, I'm sure.
[23:11] <micahg> xrdodrx: no, we can have a GTK3 theme used by both
[23:11] <micahg> the desktop team has a theming engine that I believe we can use as well
[23:12] <charlie-tca> Any other questions?
[23:12] <micahg> \o
[23:12] <charlie-tca> go ahead, micahg 
[23:13] <micahg> mr_pouit: I noticed that xubuntu-restricted-extras still ships icedtea6-plugin, is this something worth moving to the default recommends (i.e. how important is Java in the default browser experience (it's in main, so no need to be in restricted-extras anymore)
[23:14]  * GridCube is here for the meeting
[23:14] <mr_pouit> do you know what ubuntu-desktop  is doing?
[23:15] <mr_pouit> I guess moving it into the seeds is safe
[23:15] <micahg> well, it's still in restricted extras for the moment
[23:15] <micahg> I want to talk to mvo tomorrow about it
[23:15] <charlie-tca> java is already removed from the package, but the description needs to be updated
[23:15] <micahg> although I doubt Ubuntu will take it due to space concers
[23:15] <micahg> *concerns
[23:15] <micahg> charlie-tca: no, it has openjdk
[23:15] <charlie-tca> it does?
[23:15] <charlie-tca> http://pad.lv/799514
[23:15] <micahg> aka icedtea6-plugin
[23:16] <charlie-tca> oh
[23:16] <micahg> yes, that's what prompted this thinking
[23:16] <charlie-tca> which will pull in openjre or openjdk?
[23:16] <micahg> it's in xubuntu-restricted-addons which is a depends of the restricted-extras
[23:16] <micahg> charlie-tca: openjdk
[23:17] <micahg> we can decide later if we have the space to do it
[23:17] <micahg> I just wanted to bring it up early
[23:17] <charlie-tca> Let's find out what Ubuntu is going to do with it, then
[23:18] <micahg> like I said, I doubt they'll take it due to space concerns
[23:18] <charlie-tca> ACTION - micahg to find what Ubuntu-desktop does with java in restricted-extras
[23:19] <charlie-tca> Don't want to just let it drop
[23:19] <charlie-tca> TOPIC - Bugs and Testing
[23:19] <charlie-tca> We have images again! We can start testing tomorrow, We just pick up at the 19th on the chart
[23:20]  * micahg would like to bring up https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2011-June/007830.html
[23:20] <charlie-tca> well, 20th, tomorrow
[23:20] <charlie-tca> As far as I know, the live desktop is broken
[23:20] <micahg> sorry, should've waited
[23:21]  * micahg thought some fixes landed on Friday to fix that
[23:21] <charlie-tca> Maybe for Ubuntu, but we did not get them
[23:22] <charlie-tca> micahg brings up a valid point. Call For Testing: Natty Firefox users
[23:22] <charlie-tca> We need to test firefox in natty ASAP
[23:22] <xrdodrx> I'm one, and can definitely test this :D
[23:22] <charlie-tca> See the reference micahg gave above
[23:22] <xrdodrx> I'm reading it right now :)
[23:22] <charlie-tca> If you need help, let us know.
[23:23] <charlie-tca> Unfortunately, Ubuntu gets the image fixes first. We usually have to go back and push to get them in our images
[23:24] <charlie-tca> Any questions for bugs and testing?
[23:24] <GridCube> i can test tomorrow
[23:24] <charlie-tca> great!
[23:24] <charlie-tca> TOPIC - Website & Marketing
[23:24] <charlie-tca> pleia2, knome, plantoschka 
[23:24] <charlie-tca> you guys are up now
[23:25] <GridCube> can i say something?
[23:25] <charlie-tca> Well, then
[23:25] <charlie-tca> sure
[23:25] <charlie-tca> go ahead, GridCube 
[23:26] <GridCube> i would like that in the main xubuntu site there where a FAQ of simple tasks, like "how to listen music?" or stuff like that, but on various idioms, like spañish, english and so on
[23:27] <GridCube> i don't really know how to set that up, but i will be willing to translate a simple like "Top ten questions" on spañish
[23:28] <xrdodrx> micahg, I think I found a small error in your instructions, you recommend doing sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade but sudo apt-get upgrade is probably the way to go :)
[23:28] <xrdodrx> (concerning testing firefox 5 on Xubuntu Natty)
[23:28] <micahg> xrdodrx: nope, won't upgrade the langpacks
[23:28] <xrdodrx> oh, okay
[23:28] <charlie-tca> pleia2 or knome : Is such a thing possible as GridCube proposes possible on the website?
[23:28] <ochosi> i second GridCube's idea/s, but not sure who'll do the work ;)
[23:28] <plantoschka> GridCube, sounds good
[23:29] <charlie-tca> xrdodrx: sudo apt-get upgrade does not pull in a lot of stuff that needs to upgrade
[23:29] <charlie-tca> ACTION - investigate putting the "TOP 10" in spanish on the website
[23:29] <xrdodrx> guess I'll have to redo it as dist-upgrade, then, unless there's a way to cancel apt-get during the downloads process
[23:30] <micahg> xrdodrx: yep, you can just CTRL+C
[23:30] <charlie-tca> GridCube: you would translate it, right? 
[23:30] <xrdodrx> micahg, alright, I hesitate to do that to any package manager ;)
[23:30] <charlie-tca> If we have a translation, it is relatively minor to simply publish it on the website
[23:31] <xrdodrx> I could probably assist GridCube with this, I speak native English and am quite proficient (I'd say, at least ;) ) in Spanish
[23:31] <xrdodrx> it might be good too have a starter's guide on the website :D
[23:32] <charlie-tca> GridCube: who puts the list together?
[23:32] <charlie-tca> Do you have things in mind already, or do we need to gather stuff to be translated?
[23:33] <charlie-tca> xrdodrx: What about using VirtualBox to run it, so it stays separate from your installation?
[23:35] <xrdodrx> charlie-tca, it's no trouble at all
[23:35] <charlie-tca> TOPIC - Artwork
[23:35] <charlie-tca> ochosi: your turn
[23:36] <ochosi> k, well as most of you know there's a git-repo for greybird
[23:36] <xrdodrx> charlie-tca, I often find it's better to test software on real hardware, and if it's on my install I'll def be testing it quite a bit ;)
[23:36] <ochosi> recently i've been testing a few noticeable changes to greybird
[23:37] <ochosi> in the beginning i thought i'd just do a few additional styles for specific apps, but now i think the theme will change a bit for our next release
[23:37] <ochosi> i'm still very much in the experimenting/testing phase
[23:37] <ochosi> so feel free to pull the theme every once in a while and test it
[23:37] <ochosi> i'm very happy to get feedback, but please don't start shouting too loud because of changes i make in git
[23:38] <charlie-tca> xrdodrx: then you need to become familiar with sudo apt-get dist-upgrade, since apt-get upgrade won't upgrade the kernel, either.
[23:38] <ochosi> i don't consider much in the current state is 'final'
[23:38] <charlie-tca> ochosi: can you give the URL, please
[23:38] <ochosi> the general feel of the theme is supposedly lighter though
[23:38] <ochosi> sure, https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird
[23:38] <xrdodrx> charlie-tca, I'm sorry, forgive that error on my part, I didn't really understand the difference totally, all I had to do was cancel the upgrade and redo it as dist-upgrade :)
[23:38] <GridCube> charlie-tca, sorry for the delay, yes i will help translate
[23:39] <ochosi> instructions of how to clone the repo and keep it up-to-date are on that page as well
[23:39] <charlie-tca> Are the changes working for both oneiric and natty?
[23:39] <xrdodrx> I'm using FF 5 now
[23:39] <ochosi> charlie-tca: are you asking me?
[23:39] <charlie-tca> yes, ochosi 
[23:39] <ochosi> it's a bit noisy here atm :)
[23:39] <charlie-tca> sorry
[23:39] <ochosi> at the moment those changes are *only* tested with natty
[23:39] <ochosi> oneiric is still too unstable for me
[23:39] <ochosi> the gtk3 port of greybird is only a draft
[23:40] <GridCube> charlie-tca, i don't really know what are the top 10 questions on #xubuntu mabye the moving the panels, using compiz, and i dont know what else
[23:41] <charlie-tca> So, we can have testers pull in the new theme. They can try it on either natty or oneiric.
[23:41] <ochosi> yep
[23:41] <charlie-tca> GridCube: Let's take it to the xubuntu-devel mailing list, then. 
[23:41] <charlie-tca> ochosi: sorry. 
[23:41] <GridCube> :)
[23:42] <charlie-tca> Have you got anything else we want to know?
[23:42] <charlie-tca> ochosi: ^ ^
[23:42] <charlie-tca> ]please let him finish now, guys
[23:42] <ochosi> good question, well, are there any questions? ;)
[23:42] <charlie-tca> o/
[23:42] <GridCube> o/
[23:42] <ochosi> k, one at a time
[23:43] <charlie-tca> go ahead, GridCube 
[23:43] <GridCube> will there be a proper *places* menu on the basic panels?
[23:43] <micahg> places has returned in oneiric
[23:44] <GridCube> oh. sorry for asking then
[23:44] <ochosi> micahg: what do you mean? does it not depend on thunar-vfs anymore or is it part of the default panel config now?
[23:44] <charlie-tca> The question is will the art team include it on a panel, or will we keep thunar?
[23:44] <micahg> ochosi: it does not
[23:45] <charlie-tca> It is still a plugin, to be added. It no longer depends on thunar-vfs.
[23:45] <mr_pouit> the gio patch has been included, and we put it back in the default package set
[23:45] <ochosi> ok, that sounds good
[23:45] <mr_pouit> but it's not in the default panel config
[23:45] <ochosi> well we haven't discussed panel configs for oneiric at all yet
[23:45] <ochosi> i'd say we should start by evaluating what we currently have
[23:46] <charlie-tca> +1
[23:46] <ochosi> (and check the reviews for feedback)
[23:46] <charlie-tca> Want to take it up next meeting?
[23:46] <micahg> mr_pouit: ah, sorry, thought you put it back in the default config
[23:47] <charlie-tca> ACTION - GridCube to begin a discussion on the ML about what should be translated
[23:47] <mr_pouit> micahg: oh no, if I change the default config without discussion, too many people will want to kill me (at least charlie-tca and ochosi ;D)
[23:47] <GridCube> i'm not part of the mailing list
[23:48] <ochosi> charlie-tca: tbh this week is a bit busy for me, not sure i'll manage to check reviews. if anyone else could do it i'm fine with discussing it
[23:48] <charlie-tca> Let's do it on the ML, then?
[23:48] <charlie-tca> Get more people involved in it, maybe, without taking a bunch of time here?
[23:49] <charlie-tca> ACTION - start ML discussion on panels, reviews of current panels, launchers on panels, etc
[23:50] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I leave it to ochosi with my moaning to help guide it :)
[23:50] <ochosi> k
[23:50] <ochosi> i mean just to be straight-forward: i'm fine with the current setup
[23:50] <ochosi> i like it a lot
[23:50] <GridCube> o/
[23:51] <charlie-tca> go ahead, GridCube 
[23:51] <GridCube> on the artwork things, can it be made that lightgdm uses the same wallpaper that xubuntu session uses? or an easy way to fix it up?
[23:52] <charlie-tca> yes, it can be made easy to fix it
[23:52] <charlie-tca> It already is, tbh
[23:52] <ochosi> :)
[23:52] <GridCube> :P that could be part of the top 10 questions 
[23:52] <ochosi> lightDM theming will be dealt with as soon as i start testing/workin on oneiric
[23:52] <ochosi> which is pretty soon
[23:52] <ochosi> same goes for gtk3
[23:52] <charlie-tca> I have mine themed to the desktop wallpaper already
[23:53] <ochosi> charlie-tca: what was your question?
[23:53] <GridCube> on that same topic, what about user avatars?
[23:53] <charlie-tca> harder
[23:53] <charlie-tca> We have to see what our front-end brings in
[23:53] <GridCube> okay
[23:53] <charlie-tca> ochosi: any kind of time estimate to pull the new themes for testing? 
[23:54] <charlie-tca> Like, weekly, two-weeks, anything?
[23:54] <ochosi> you mean to oneiric?
[23:54] <xrdodrx> I imagine that once LightDM gets included in default Ubuntu there will be many GUI front-ends to customizing it, GridCube 
[23:54] <charlie-tca> from git
[23:54] <charlie-tca> As a general guide, should a tester pull from git every two weeks or ???
[23:55] <ochosi> hm, tbh my work-schedule is not so clear that i could give you real guidance
[23:55] <micahg> xrdodrx: lightdm is already the default in Ubuntu
[23:55] <ochosi> maybe it's best to check my commit messages
[23:55] <ochosi> if there is something noteworthy i usually write it down
[23:55] <xrdodrx> micahg, for natty?
[23:55] <ochosi> so maybe check every week or every other week
[23:55] <xrdodrx> I meant for oneiric :)
[23:56] <micahg> xrdodrx: oneiric
[23:56] <ochosi> right now is definitely a good time
[23:56] <ochosi> to pull and test the theme
[23:57] <charlie-tca> Okay testers! pull the new themes every two weeks and test it in either natty or oneiric unless we tell you pull it sooner
[23:57] <charlie-tca> and this week would be a great time to pull it, within a day or two, if possible!
[23:57] <GridCube> :) will do
[23:58] <ochosi> feedback would be best directed directly to me
[23:58] <charlie-tca> Thank you very much, ochosi 
[23:58] <ochosi> either via email or on irc
[23:58] <ochosi> no
[23:58] <ochosi> problem
[23:58] <charlie-tca> Any other questions for things covered so far?
[23:59] <charlie-tca> If not, we have a couple of Announcements
[23:59] <charlie-tca> TOPIC - Announcements
[23:59] <charlie-tca> Debian Import Freeze: June 30
[23:59] <charlie-tca> 10.04.3 Freeze: June 30
[23:59] <charlie-tca> Oneiric Alpha 2: July 7
[23:59] <charlie-tca> Testing for Alpha2: July 5
[23:59] <charlie-tca> The wiki is causing a few headaches after the latest change.
[23:59] <charlie-tca> Please file bugs and issues with it according to the announcement: