[00:00] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu is not gnome based, but Xfce.
[00:00] <Mandrew> sudo apt-get install indicator-applet-appmenu
[00:00] <Mandrew> ok
[00:00] <t3084> it seems my graphics chip is a whacky one
[00:00] <t3084> what x server does xubunut use??
[00:00] <t3084> xubuntu*
[00:01] <charlie-tca> Same xserver as everything else
[00:01] <charlie-tca> !info xserver
[00:01] <ubottu> Package xserver does not exist in natty
[00:01] <charlie-tca> !info xorg
[00:01] <ubottu> xorg (source: xorg): X.Org X Window System. In component main, is optional. Version 1:7.6+4ubuntu3 (natty), package size 1 kB, installed size 44 kB
[00:01] <t3084> hmmm
[00:01] <t3084> then i should have a config file?
[00:02] <t3084> in /etc/X11/
[00:02] <t3084> i'm searching for it right now
[00:02] <charlie-tca> nope
[00:02] <charlie-tca> Those were done away with a while back
[00:02] <t3084> oh?
[00:02] <t3084> i'm not much of a ubuntu user
[00:03] <t3084> where can I specify my monitor settings?
[00:05] <elros> try start > settings > settings manager > display
[00:05] <t3084> if it's anything like ubuntu it won't work
[00:06] <t3084> it seems most distros have issues finding the proper settings
[00:06] <t3084> I'm installing on a dell inspirion 1100
[00:06] <t3084> with i845
[00:07] <t3084> i will check the setting though to be sure
[00:09] <t3084> yup
[00:09] <t3084> just as I though
[00:09] <t3084> no luck
[00:09] <t3084> only 640x480 at 0.0 Hz
[00:09] <t3084> :|
[00:13] <t3084> and of course doing anything manually is quickly becoming a lost art in linux it seems
[00:14] <elros> linux has to get easier to use in order to sell it to the masses
[00:15] <elros> I hear that Mac OS X just wonderfully "works", though they have the benefit of being locked to certain hardware configurations
[00:25] <charlie-tca> t3084: you can create the /etc/xorg.conf if you need to
[00:25] <t3084> oh ok
[00:26] <charlie-tca> It will be used if created
[00:26] <t3084> ok good to know!
[00:26] <t3084> ha @ mac os
[00:26] <t3084> just ha!
[00:26] <t3084> :p
[00:26] <t3084> ok I'll create the xorg and see if that does the trick
[00:27] <t3084> thanks charlie-tca
[00:27] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[00:34] <Josesordo> How I can open a .deb file in xubuntu?.. it's using ubuntu software center.. and that doesnt work
[00:40] <t3084> open?
[00:40] <t3084> or install?
[00:40] <t3084> to install "dpkg -i package.deb"
[00:48] <t3084> hmmm
[00:50]  * t3084 sigh 
[00:55] <Josesordo> lol.. install..sorry
[00:55]  * Josesordo lame
[00:56] <t3084> oh not the sigh was not for you
[00:56] <t3084> it was for my own issues over ehre
[00:58] <Josesordo> t3084, ahh ok.. =)
[00:58] <t3084> I'm having x server issues
[00:58] <t3084> it hates me
[00:59] <Josesordo> =O ..
[00:59] <t3084> ..yea
[00:59] <t3084> this computer hates
[00:59] <t3084> it's evolving
[01:00] <Josesordo> a server for ..?
[01:00] <t3084> X
[01:00] <GridCube> whats your issue again t3084 ?
[01:01] <t3084> odd graphics chipset
[01:01] <GridCube> mmm notebook thingy?
[01:01] <t3084> my laptop is a dell inspirion 1100
[01:01] <t3084> old laptop
[01:01] <t3084> and no distro can detect the proper settings
[01:01] <GridCube> do lspci and paste it on a pastebin
[01:01] <GridCube> !pastebin
[01:01] <ubottu> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
[01:02] <t3084> alright
[01:02] <t3084> let me install irssi
[01:02] <GridCube> O_o
[01:02] <t3084> i can't exactly copy and paste
[01:02] <GridCube> oh just pass the number for it
[01:02] <t3084> and I knwo what you are looking for
[01:02] <GridCube> its a 6 digit number easy
[01:03] <t3084> intel 82845G/GL
[01:03] <GridCube> ok :)
[01:03] <t3084> I;ve been searching and trying various solutions
[01:03] <t3084> that probably worked on older distros
[01:05] <t3084> the latest development
[01:06] <t3084> i copy another xorg config
[01:06] <t3084> of course it didn't work
[01:06] <t3084> i rebooted into recovery, and redid the x settings
[01:06] <t3084> that didn't work either
[01:06] <t3084> but for some reason after that
[01:06] <t3084> the console worked?!
[01:07] <t3084> but as soon as I tried to boot x ot failed again, and failed on reboot
[01:07] <GridCube> XD
[01:07] <GridCube> so you dont have X?
[01:07] <t3084> oh I do
[01:08] <t3084> it only works at 640x480
[01:08] <t3084> with not refresh rate options
[01:11] <GridCube> mmm thats bad
[01:12] <t3084> yea, but I know I can get it to work
[01:13] <t3084> eh i need a breal
[01:15] <GridCube> tried eliminating the xorg.conf file althogether and rebooting?
[01:16] <t3084> there wasn't one to begin with and it didn't work
[01:16] <t3084> well
[01:16] <t3084> other than the 640x480
[01:19] <GridCube> tried a simple xorg.conf whit only >Section "Screen" >SubSection "Display" >Modes "1280x1024" >EndSubSection ?
[01:20] <t3084> I'll try it right now
[01:23] <GridCube> well change the mode to one you care
[01:23] <t3084> 1024x768
[01:23] <t3084> so it seems recovery mode is working just fine
[01:24] <GridCube> :P
[01:24] <t3084> but
[01:24] <t3084> when i try to boot with the low setting sit still becomes unresponsive
[01:24] <GridCube> now in english please
[01:25] <GridCube> XD
[01:25] <t3084> have you been into the recovery console?
[01:25] <t3084> cuz that was english :p
[01:25] <GridCube> not that i remember
[01:25] <t3084> yea
[01:25] <t3084> in the recovery console
[01:25] <t3084> you can boot into x failsafe
[01:25] <t3084> sorry
[01:25] <t3084> failsafeX
[01:25] <t3084> which seems to work enough
[01:26] <t3084> but it wants me to fix the display before preceeding
[01:26] <t3084> and no matter what it messes up
[01:26] <t3084> but the console is fullscreen
[01:26] <GridCube> mmm
[01:26] <t3084> and so is the windows when it firs appears
[01:26] <GridCube> no idea sorry
[01:27] <t3084> yea see
[01:27] <t3084> i get some weird results
[01:27] <t3084> sometimes if I run failsafeX
[01:28] <t3084> it does nothign but go black
[01:28] <t3084> but then other times I get ubuntu is running in low-graphics mode
[01:28] <t3084> which is working fullscreen
[01:28] <t3084> i got to configure it
[01:28] <t3084> and after it fails
[01:28] <GridCube> mmm
[01:28] <GridCube> can you try another linux kernel?
[01:29] <t3084> i've tried a few
[01:29] <GridCube> you graphic card drivers are embebed on it, so it might be worth a try
[01:29] <t3084> it's the chipset
[01:29] <GridCube> :/
[01:29] <t3084> i've tried alot actually
[01:29] <GridCube> sorry then, this is way over my field
[01:30] <t3084> i think I may have to come up witha crafty solution
[01:30] <gr8m8> failsafe will be at 800x600
[01:30] <t3084> still fullscreen
[01:31] <GridCube> t3084, have you tried this? http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?agr=Y&DwnldID=8203&ProdId=865&lang=spa#help
[01:32] <GridCube> or this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReinhardTartler/X/RevertingIntelDriverTo2.4
[01:32] <GridCube> disregard the lang=spa in the first ling
[01:32] <GridCube> k
[01:33] <t3084> lol
[01:33] <t3084>  i can read enough of the spanish
[01:34] <GridCube> change it to en :P
[01:34] <grappr> good evening
[01:34] <GridCube> good
[01:34] <grappr> i just installed xubuntu and wanted to speak with some other users of this wonderful distribution
[01:34] <grappr> plus, it's saturday night!
[01:35] <grappr> party party
[01:35] <GridCube> :D
[01:35] <GridCube> a good saturday is good if you spend it installing a OS
[01:36] <GridCube> :D and welcome to the xubuntu family
[01:36] <t3084> k i'm gonna try the drivers first
[01:36] <t3084> err
[01:36] <t3084> modules
[01:36] <t3084> my bad :D, and if that doesn't work I'll try reverting
[01:36] <t3084> if that doesn't work
[01:36] <t3084> I'm installing arch again
[01:36] <t3084> :p
[01:36] <charlie-tca> t3084: You might have to stay with Xubuntu 10.10 or less with that graphics card
[01:37] <gr8m8> tearch will have a newer kernel so newer drivers
[01:37] <gr8m8> how old is this nebook?
[01:38] <t3084> old
[01:38] <t3084> yea but with arch I can control what exactly is installed to begin with
[01:38] <gr8m8> it's a netbook it can't be too old
[01:38] <t3084> and easier for me to track down issues :)
[01:38] <gr8m8> yep
[01:38] <charlie-tca> i815 and back are no longer supported by intel; they don't work in natty and newer
[01:38] <t3084> it's not a netbook
[01:38] <gr8m8> except for the horrible libpulse
[01:38] <t3084> it's a laptop
[01:38] <t3084> it's old
[01:39] <t3084> it's running a 2.3 p4
[01:39] <t3084> remember when those were out o.o
[01:39]  * GridCube has to go cook something to eat or he will starve, well not really, but he should cook now, i said now, leave GridCube 
[01:39] <gr8m8> I use a 700mhz pent3 lappy but it has ati graphics
[01:39] <charlie-tca> um, mine has a 1.7 Celeron
[01:39] <t3084> lol
[01:39] <t3084> oh i have other older computers :p
[01:39] <t3084> I'm just syaing it's not new
[01:40] <gr8m8> k
[01:42] <t3084> and I had a celeron 1.7 that was faster than this :/
[01:42] <t3084> or maybe it was a pentium m
[01:42] <t3084> either way
[01:42]  * t3084 throws the laptop into the lake 
[01:53] <gNewPower> hi friends, is there a way to get 3D effect in Xubuntu? Stuff like the compiz cube, or wobbling windows, etc.? thanks
[01:53] <charlie-tca> by installing compiz and plugins
[01:54] <gNewPower> charlie-tca, what plugins are you refferring to?
[01:54] <charlie-tca> The ones you would need for the effects you want
[01:55]  * charlie-tca doesn't use compiz, and has never seen these things
[01:55] <gNewPower> k
[01:55] <gr8m8> there is
[01:55] <gr8m8> !compiz
[01:55] <ubottu> Compiz (compositing window manager), for a howto see http://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompositeManager and more help #compiz
[01:56] <charlie-tca> further disclaimer, charlie-tca doesn' t even know how to get those effects. Compiz and plugins remain a mystery
[01:57] <gNewPower> yes, I have seen that page. but it does not tell me what can be done with Xubuntu or how it is done.  I just had such problems with U11.04's Unity and "Ubuntu Classic" crashing my compiz that I am a tad nervous
[01:57] <charlie-tca> it is the same compiz
[01:59] <GridCube> food is in the process of being edible :P
[02:01] <GridCube> gNewPower, just install compiz then replace it as the windows manager by >alt-f2 >compiz -r >run
[02:02] <GridCube> and then use ccsm to configure it as you wish
[02:02] <charlie-tca> (which you also installed?)
[02:02] <gNewPower> GridCube, ccsm? what is that?  Also, that means replacing the XFCE window manager with compiz, right?
[02:02] <GridCube> (it installs whit compiz)
[02:02] <gNewPower> if so, I might pass
[02:03] <GridCube> !ccsm
[02:03] <ubottu> To enable advanced customization of desktop effects in Ubuntu: install 'compizconfig-settings-manager' or 'simple-ccsm'. If you install the latter, a new option will appear in your appearance properties - See also !compiz - Help in #compiz
[02:03] <gNewPower> compiz under 11.04 and "Ubuntu classic" does not work
[02:03] <gNewPower> I want to stick to "pure XFCE" I think.  It is fast, and really beautiful.
[02:03] <GridCube> then no compiz
[02:03] <gNewPower> I would not mind some 3D effect in XFCE though ;-)
[02:04] <GridCube> XD then compiz
[02:04] <gNewPower> yeah, I think that I will give up on compiz
[02:04] <gNewPower> ok, gotcha
[02:04] <gNewPower> no 3D
[02:04] <gNewPower> LOL
[02:04] <GridCube> you can have transparencies and such
[02:04] <gNewPower> yep, I saw that. for the terminal
[02:04] <gNewPower> its very beautiful
[02:05] <gNewPower> all of XFCE is stunning in its elegance, I love it
[02:05] <t3084> you can use xfce with compiz
[02:05] <gNewPower> what is the shortcut to change keyboard layout in XFCE?  alt+shift does not work
[02:05] <GridCube> gNewPower, for the rest of the windows too, just enable the default compositor
[02:06] <GridCube> no idea
[02:06] <GridCube> on that last one
[02:06] <gNewPower> GridCube, sorry for the dumb one here: what is the compositor?
[02:06] <GridCube> the compositor is the thing that makes windows transparent and pretty thingis
[02:07] <gNewPower> is the compositor in the setting manager?
[02:07] <GridCube> yes
[02:07] <GridCube> !composition
[02:07] <t3084> !composite
[02:07] <ubottu> Compiz-Fusion (and the older Compiz and Beryl) are window managers that employ the "composite" extension of X to draw windows using graphics cards' 3D hardware. They can additionally provide "desktop special effects" (such as the "cube") by means of plug-ins. Join #compiz-fusion for help and support with advanced features. See also « /msg ubottu compiz » and « /msg ubottu effects »
[02:07] <t3084> :)
[02:07] <GridCube> yes, thats not what i wanted XD
[02:08] <charlie-tca> There is no factoid for Xfwm4 compositor
[02:08] <GridCube> i see
[02:08] <charlie-tca> Just go to settings -> Window Manager Tweaks, last tab is compositor
[02:09] <gNewPower> no ideas about switching keyboars?
[02:09] <gNewPower> nope, last tab is 'advanced'
[02:09] <charlie-tca> gNewPower: bug in the switcher, it resets itself every startup
[02:09] <charlie-tca> yes, already reported
[02:10] <charlie-tca> hoping for a fix soon, probably in Oneiric
[02:10] <t3084> well
[02:10] <t3084> where do those settings get saved to?
[02:10] <gNewPower> so no keyboard switcher at all for the time being?
[02:10] <t3084> make a upstart or whatever to correct the change on boot
[02:10] <charlie-tca> yes, you can add it to the panel, it is a panel applet
[02:11] <charlie-tca> t3084: what settings?
[02:11] <t3084> you said it has a bug
[02:11] <t3084> that it's reset on boot
[02:11] <t3084> the settings have to be stored somewhere
[02:11] <charlie-tca> yup, and no, it can' t be worked around through anything
[02:11] <t3084> and accessible somehow
[02:11] <t3084> :/
[02:11] <t3084> that doesn't sound right to me
[02:11] <charlie-tca> well, okay, then
[02:11] <t3084> I'm just saying
[02:11] <t3084> if it's a setting
[02:12] <t3084> that works
[02:12] <t3084> when set
[02:12] <GridCube> XD thats how bugs are
[02:12] <t3084> yes
[02:12] <t3084> but it works when you set it yes?
[02:12] <t3084> until reboot?
[02:12] <charlie-tca> This is not gnome, it just isn' t really quite as simple
[02:12] <t3084> i hate gnome
[02:12] <t3084> :p
[02:13] <charlie-tca> gNewPower: what version of Xubuntu? I will get the name of the plugin for you
[02:15] <t3084> ugh
[02:15] <gNewPower> I think I found a solution
[02:15] <t3084> point and click distros
[02:15] <t3084> UGH
[02:15] <gNewPower> its xfce goodies
[02:15] <charlie-tca> gNewPower: the plugin is called xfce4-xkb-plugin
[02:15] <charlie-tca> You can install it or the goodies, then add it to the panel
[02:18] <gNewPower> yep it works!  СПАСИБО!
[02:18] <gNewPower> :-)
[02:18] <t3084> when is wayland suppose to come to ubuntu?
[02:19] <GridCube> :D we got ourselfs a russian!
[02:19] <gNewPower> man, Xubuntu is really nice. very very very nice indeed. I might end up being grateful to Shuttleworth/Canonical for screwing up 11.04 so badly that I ended up dumping Unity/GNOME
[02:19] <charlie-tca> 3 to 5 years, t3084
[02:19] <t3084> oh ok
[02:19] <t3084> good
[02:19] <gNewPower> GridCube, yep, guilty as charged
[02:19] <GridCube> :D
[02:19] <gNewPower> :-P
[02:19] <gNewPower> lol
[02:19] <GridCube> im from argentina XD
[02:19] <GridCube> we are quite far away
[02:20] <gNewPower> GridCube, I spend all my holidays in Buenos Aires, around Villa San Martin
[02:20] <gNewPower> in a place called San Andres
[02:20] <gNewPower> that is on the Mitre line from Retiro
[02:20]  * GridCube knows this is getting offtopic and will move there
[02:20] <gNewPower> which part of Argentina are you from?
[02:20]  * gNewPower hopes that it is ok to off-topic here
[02:20] <GridCube> gNewPower, :) come to #xubuntu-offtopic
[02:20] <gNewPower> ok
[02:20] <gNewPower> gimme a sec
[02:21] <t3084> AH HA!
[02:21] <GridCube> eh he?
[02:21] <t3084> i knew there was a way to script compositing
[02:21] <t3084> $(HOME)/.config/xfce4/mcs_settings/wmtweaks.xml
[02:21] <t3084> <option name="Xfwm/UseCompositing" type="int" value="0"/>
[02:22] <t3084> but that is just the settings for the panel
[02:22] <t3084> the compositing is started like this
[02:22] <t3084> xfwm4 --compositor=on
[02:22] <t3084> and turned off with xfwm4 --compositor=off
[02:35] <charlie-tca> You can turn that off and on using the gui.
[02:35] <charlie-tca> It is the keyboard switcher that will fail every login
[02:40]  * gNewPower is away: Я временно ушел
[02:43] <t3084> aah see i was thinking you said the setting for composite was not working right
[02:44] <t3084> that sucks though you have to install goodies just to get the option
[02:45] <charlie-tca> you don't
[02:46] <charlie-tca> you can install the xfce4-xkb-plugin by itself
[02:46] <t3084> either way
[02:46] <charlie-tca> That' s the advantage of the modularity of Xfce. You only install what you need
[02:47] <charlie-tca> unlike gnome and kde, where you get a ton of stuff, even if you don' t need it
[02:48] <t3084> i'm pretty sure composite is compiled into xfwm
[02:48] <t3084> there is nothign to install to get it
[02:48] <charlie-tca> yes, but you do not have to have xfwm4, you can use any window manager
[02:49] <t3084> huh?
[02:49] <charlie-tca> it's just one more module
[02:49] <t3084> it sucks you have to install a package JUST to get the option in the GUI for an option that is already shipped
[02:49] <t3084> you do not need a module installed to composite
[02:49] <t3084> err
[02:49] <t3084> i correct myself
[02:49] <charlie-tca> what option?
[02:50] <charlie-tca> the compositor is built in to the window manager. It does not require installing anything to use it
[02:50] <t3084> YES
[02:50] <t3084> i know
[02:50] <t3084> thats what i was trying to get at
[02:50] <charlie-tca> If you choose to use compiz, you replace xfwm4 with it
[02:50] <t3084> you can use compiz and xfce
[02:50] <xrdodrx> my VNC decided to just stop working today :/
[02:50] <xrdodrx> using vino-server
[02:50] <t3084> uh oh
[02:51] <charlie-tca> yes, it is more complicated than gnome and unity
[02:51] <xrdodrx> Your desktop is only reachable over the local network. Others can access your computer using the address 169.254.6.153 or xubuntu.local.
[02:51] <xrdodrx> I have no idea where it's getting that address from.
[02:51] <xrdodrx> My computer is 192.168.1.5
[02:51] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu is not intended for the beginner in linux. It does require a bit of learning and effort to configure
[02:51] <t3084> xubuntu is linux
[02:52] <t3084> it's ubunut
[02:52] <t3084> wiuth xfce
[02:52] <t3084> nothing different
[02:52] <t3084> lol
[02:52] <charlie-tca> xrdodrx: 169.254 is a avahi address
[02:52] <charlie-tca> wrong, t3084
[02:52] <charlie-tca> it is very different
[02:52] <xrdodrx> charlie-tca, which means? :<
[02:52] <charlie-tca> You can install Ubuntu, and use it with very few changes
[02:52] <xrdodrx> I discovered it wasn't working when I needed to access my computer at school today.
[02:53] <xrdodrx> lol
[02:53] <charlie-tca> You install Xubuntu, you may have to install your own wireless drivers, video, sound, etc.
[02:53] <t3084> well thats cuz it's stripped out
[02:53] <charlie-tca> xrdodrx: avahi is a nightmare
[02:53] <t3084> but it's still ubuntu
[02:53] <xrdodrx> I came home to discover it changed its address
[02:53] <t3084> and easily placed back in
[02:53] <charlie-tca> no, sorry, it is not ubuntu.
[02:53] <xrdodrx> charlie-tca, how do I get it back to 192.168.1.5?
[02:53] <t3084> debian
[02:53] <t3084> fine
[02:53] <t3084> :)
[02:54] <xrdodrx> It doesn't even work when I use the new address it decided I now have
[02:54] <t3084> xubuntu based on ubuntu which is based on debian but it's neither
[02:54] <charlie-tca> and telling users it is the same usually results in users that get frustrated fast when things don't work for them
[02:54] <xrdodrx> ifconfig still displays 192.168.1.5
[02:55] <charlie-tca> xrdodrx: I usually disable avahi myself because of that stuff
[02:55] <xrdodrx> wlan0     Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 74:f0:6d:6b:dc:40            inet addr:192.168.1.5
[02:55] <t3084> avahi is a server like bonjour
[02:55] <xrdodrx> I'm a little stumped, charlie-tca .
[02:55] <xrdodrx> lol
[02:55] <t3084> it will not change your ip address
[02:55] <charlie-tca> I turn it off in /etc/default/avahi
[02:56] <charlie-tca> because it will set an address that is *unusabe* by my network card. I use static addresses
[02:56] <xrdodrx> I see
[02:57] <xrdodrx> set AVAHI_DAEMON_DETECT_LOCAL to 0 then?
[02:57] <xrdodrx> and restart vino-server?
[02:57] <charlie-tca> yup
[02:57] <charlie-tca> might have to restart the computer to get it to release the address
[02:57] <xrdodrx> or just networking?
[02:57] <t3084> ....
[02:57] <xrdodrx> I kind of want to keep my uptime, but not too bad :)
[02:59] <t3084> is the vnc server set up to listen at 127.0.0.1 or your IP address?
[02:59] <t3084> isn't it great when something works and then it just doesn't :p
[03:00] <charlie-tca> yeah :)
[03:00] <charlie-tca> xrdodrx: maybe t3084 can help you keep the uptime
[03:00] <t3084> psh
[03:00] <t3084> i can care less about uptime
[03:00] <t3084> lol
[03:00] <t3084> working is what matters
[03:01] <t3084> unless there are other users access important data
[03:01] <charlie-tca> I am about the worst person there is for helping wth networking anything
[03:01] <xrdodrx> vino-preferences now displays
[03:01] <xrdodrx> Your desktop is only reachable over the local network. Others can access your computer using the address 192.168.1.5 or xubuntu.local.
[03:01] <xrdodrx> which is good, but my other computer still is unable to connect
[03:01] <t3084> can you ping it?
[03:01] <xrdodrx> (TightVNC) my phone with AndroidVNC can't connect either
[03:02] <t3084> see if you can even pong the computer
[03:02] <t3084> or ssh if you have it
[03:02] <xrdodrx> indeed I can ping it
[03:02] <xrdodrx> --- 192.168.1.5 ping statistics ---
[03:02] <xrdodrx> 10 packets transmitted, 10 received, 0% packet loss, time 8996ms
[03:02] <t3084> hmmm
[03:02] <t3084> do you know how to port scan?
[03:03] <xrdodrx> not really, no
[03:03] <t3084> if you have netcat installed
[03:03] <t3084> on the other computer
[03:03] <t3084> try
[03:04] <t3084> nc -z 192.168.1.5 5899-5920
[03:04] <t3084> or more thoroughly
[03:04] <t3084> nc -z 192.168.1.5 1-6000
[03:04] <t3084> that will takea  bit though
[03:05] <t3084> i know my laptop sucks cuz even windows has issues with the display drivers
[03:05] <t3084> i should kill it with fire
[03:06] <xrdodrx> may as well restart, see if it helps
[03:06] <xrdodrx> I can't ever seem to get a high uptime, lol :)
[03:07] <t3084> uptimes are for ego's
[03:07] <t3084> unless you are applying for a working in DB center :p
[03:07] <t3084> for work*
[03:07] <t3084> ah he left
[03:07] <charlie-tca> t3084: honest, Xubuntu is Debian and Ubuntu derived, since we have to sync with Debian. Xfce by itself is a desktop environment only
[03:07] <yomayom> so
[03:08] <t3084> yea I'm aware of xfce
[03:08] <charlie-tca> It is useless without a bunch of other stuff to make the OS
[03:08] <yomayom> I downloaded a linux binary for textadept since it'd not in package manager
[03:08] <t3084> i prefer to work in a terminal
[03:08] <yomayom> I'm wondering what's the proper place to put the extracted folder+contents
[03:08] <t3084> but unfortunately the internet doesn't look so good in there
[03:08] <t3084> what do the contents look like?
[03:08] <charlie-tca> yeah, that is a problem, You can use network-manager to manager it with CLI though
[03:09] <t3084> eh
[03:09] <t3084> no need
[03:09] <charlie-tca> there is a cli interface for it
[03:09] <yomayom> z@pd1:~/Downloads/textadept_3.8.x86_64$ dir
[03:09] <yomayom> core  init.lua	LICENSE  scripts  textadept	    themes
[03:09] <yomayom> doc   lexers	modules  src	  textadept.lpng12
[03:09] <t3084> yea I know
[03:09] <t3084> i do all my stuff static
[03:10] <t3084> so I just use ifconfig, and route
[03:10] <t3084> nonsense!
[03:10] <charlie-tca> oh, fun!
[03:11] <t3084> it's not difficult
[03:11] <t3084> not much more to know than using network manager
[03:11] <charlie-tca> yomayom: normally the best place is where it wants to put things
[03:11] <t3084> and if you use dhcp, it's even easier
[03:11] <charlie-tca> yomayom: Is it a .deb package?
[03:11] <charlie-tca> t3084: yup
[03:11] <yomayom> no, just a .zip
[03:11] <charlie-tca> but not as much fun then
[03:11] <yomayom> er, .tgz rather
[03:12] <t3084> wb xrdodrx
[03:12] <xrdodrx> ah, what a shame :(
[03:12] <t3084> not workign huh
[03:12] <charlie-tca> so, when you extract it, does it define a folder?
[03:12] <charlie-tca> Is there a README in the folder?
[03:12] <xrdodrx> even after that, VNC doesn't wowrk
[03:13] <t3084> can you connect locally?
[03:13] <yomayom> .tgz immediate content is the folder I showed you lot
[03:13] <xrdodrx> vino-server is running.
[03:13] <t3084> can you connect locally?
[03:13] <t3084> on the same machine?
[03:13] <t3084> i knwo it's odd to try
[03:14] <t3084> but it will let you know it's it's a setting on the computer or a networking issue
[03:14] <t3084> you can also try specifying the port when connecting
[03:14] <xrdodrx> t3084, I can connect to localhost
[03:14] <xrdodrx> I've tried, 192.168.1.5:5900
[03:14] <charlie-tca> yomayom: no idea then. I am not familiar with the application. Maybe there is some documentation where you got the file?
[03:15] <xrdodrx> Vinagre can connect to localhost, I get a nice "tunnel" effect lol
[03:15] <xrdodrx> as my desktop is repeated over and over
[03:15] <t3084> lol yea
[03:15] <t3084> but at least it's working correctly
[03:15] <xrdodrx> Only on this machine :(
[03:15] <xrdodrx> other computer can't connect
[03:15] <t3084> you have and android yea?
[03:15] <xrdodrx> yes
[03:15] <t3084> do you have adb installed?
[03:15] <xrdodrx> yes
[03:16] <t3084> you can forward ports
[03:16] <t3084> from your android to your pc
[03:16] <xrdodrx> my android phone can't connect either
[03:17] <t3084> i know cuz thats through the wifi right?
[03:17] <xrdodrx> VNC connection failed! The operation timed out
[03:17] <xrdodrx> yes
[03:17] <t3084> connect your android
[03:17] <yomayom> the linux install instructions are "Unpack the archive anywhere. "
[03:17] <t3084> through usb
[03:17] <t3084> then issue
[03:17] <t3084> adb forward tcp:5900 tcp:5900
[03:17] <t3084> then on your phone's vncviewer
[03:18] <yomayom> the program works and all, was just wondering if there was a proper way to place programs. I'm new/unfamiliar with the linux filesystem is all.
[03:18] <t3084> connect to localhost:5900
[03:18] <charlie-tca> yomayom: then unpack it in ~/
[03:18] <charlie-tca> There must be a readme or something in it that will tell you more
[03:18] <xrdodrx> t3084, that works :D
[03:18] <xrdodrx> not very useful because I'd have to be home to do it  lol
[03:18] <yomayom> there's the website install instructions
[03:18] <yomayom> http://caladbolg.net/luadoc/textadept/manual/2_Installation.html
[03:19] <t3084> ok
[03:19] <t3084> so we at least know it's not software
[03:20] <xrdodrx> so, on to hardware
[03:20] <xrdodrx> should I reset my router?
[03:20] <t3084> and firewalls/settings
[03:20] <t3084> :p
[03:20] <t3084> sometimes it helps but lets try something real quick
[03:20] <t3084> you can either install nc on another linux computer
[03:20] <t3084> or install an app to your droid that does port scans
[03:21] <charlie-tca> yomayom: so you unpack it, run it with the command specified, and if it fails, you will have to compile it for your computer.
[03:22] <charlie-tca> It can be placed anywhere you want it, but if it is not in /home, normally, you need sudo to make it work
[03:22] <t3084> @xrodrx what you want to do is find out if you can even see the port from outside the computer, if not then it must be a setting on yoru computer that is blocking the port
[03:22] <charlie-tca> yomayom: I would try ~/ and if that don' t work, put it in /opt and try again
[03:22] <xrdodrx> okay, installing Port Scanner app
[03:23] <xrdodrx> from Market
[03:23] <yomayom> It works wherever I put it, was only asking where is the most ideal/tidy place to put it
[03:23] <t3084> I'll do the same to see exactly what you are seeing
[03:24] <xrdodrx> scanning 192.168.1.5:5800-6000
[03:24] <charlie-tca> the only differences are whether it needs to be available to all users, then I would use /opt
[03:24] <t3084> ah you got a handle on it
[03:24] <charlie-tca> otherwise, /home is very easy to remove it later
[03:24] <xrdodrx> t3084, yeah, i'm usually good with this stuff, but this vnc issue really has me stumped
[03:24] <xrdodrx> thank you for trying to help, i'll see what the port scan tells me :)
[03:25] <t3084> I'm usually pretty good with this stuff too... but my video issue has me banging my head too :p
[03:25] <yomayom> do I need to be root to paste a folder into /opt
[03:25] <charlie-tca> yomayom: yes
[03:26] <xrdodrx> t3084, oh, getting closer
[03:26] <xrdodrx> 0 port open
[03:26] <xrdodrx> hmm
[03:27] <t3084> hmmm
[03:27] <xrdodrx> I'm not well-versed in the linux firewall, so I have no idea how to open port 5900
[03:27] <t3084> open the vino settings
[03:27] <xrdodrx> Your desktop is only reachable over the local network. Others can access your computer using the address 169.254.6.153 or xubuntu.local.
[03:27] <xrdodrx> :|
[03:27] <xrdodrx> that's silly, I disabled avahi I thought
[03:28] <xrdodrx> maybe it does that when no port is open
[03:28] <t3084> hmmmm
[03:28] <t3084> does what?
[03:28] <charlie-tca> goodnight folks. Good luck and have fun!
[03:28] <t3084> later charlie-tca
[03:29] <t3084> personally
[03:29] <xrdodrx> t3084, looks like it "changes" my IP
[03:29] <xrdodrx> when I don't have an open port 5900
[03:29] <t3084> i use x11vnc
[03:29] <xrdodrx> :|
[03:29] <xrdodrx> how to open it?
[03:29] <t3084> well not sure on xubuntu
[03:30] <t3084> though you shoudl be able to open manually
[03:30] <xrdodrx> how?
[03:30] <t3084> one sec
[03:30] <t3084> i have to ge the aurgments right
[03:30] <t3084> using the command line tool iptables
[03:31] <xrdodrx> okay
[03:33] <t3084> iptables -I INPUT -p tcp --dport 5900 -j ACCEPT
[03:33] <t3084> that will allow port 5900 to accept packets
[03:33] <xrdodrx> okay
[03:34] <xrdodrx> moment of truth :D
[03:34] <t3084> D:
[03:35] <xrdodrx> t3084, I can't thank you enough :D
[03:35] <xrdodrx> typing from other computer right now :)
[03:35] <t3084> good stuff
[03:35] <t3084> no problem
[03:35] <t3084> well now you know basic steps to testing network connectivity
[03:35] <t3084> :p
[03:35] <xrdodrx> heh, yeah, definitely learned a lot from that
[03:35] <t3084> if you want to close a port
[03:35] <xrdodrx> iptables is the linux firewall then?
[03:35] <t3084> iptables -I INPUT -p tcp --dport 5900 -j DROP
[03:36] <t3084> i think
[03:36] <t3084> iptables -I INPUT -p tcp --dport 5900 -j REJECT
[03:36] <t3084> they both deny it pretty much
[03:37] <t3084> but as you might assume
[03:37] <t3084> reject litereally rejects it and the user knows, drop just drops like it never existed
[03:38] <xrdodrx> cool
[03:38] <t3084> so yea
[03:38] <t3084> doesn't vino require a user to be logged in?
[03:38] <t3084> to connect
[03:38] <xrdodrx> it does
[03:39] <xrdodrx> I keep my other computer on with me logged in
[03:39] <xrdodrx> is x11vnc different?
[03:39] <t3084> yea
[03:39] <t3084> you can just have the computer on and not logged in
[03:39] <t3084> alittle trickier to set up
[03:39] <t3084> but nice
[03:39] <xrdodrx> another thing that annoys me about vino is it's limited to 8 chars for the password
[03:39] <xrdodrx> :<
[03:40] <t3084> :/
[03:40] <t3084> and you connect form the outside?
[03:40] <t3084> eek
[03:40] <t3084> through ssh i hope :p
[03:41] <xrdodrx> t3084, no, not able to :(
[03:41] <xrdodrx> no android client can accept VNC over SSH
[03:41] <t3084> :p
[03:41] <t3084> oh it can
[03:41] <t3084> with ssh tunnels
[03:41] <t3084> you need  rooted phone for it
[03:42] <xrdodrx> mine is rooted, yeah :)
[03:42] <t3084> yea then you should be able to vnc over ssh
[03:42] <t3084> you can use ssh tunnel or connectbot
[03:43] <xrdodrx> is it really that insecure?
[03:43] <t3084> if it's over the internet
[03:43] <t3084> yes
[03:43] <t3084> :p
[03:43] <xrdodrx> now that it's working again I'm very hesitant to mess with it if you know what I mean, lol
[03:43] <xrdodrx> yes, it's over the internet
[03:44] <t3084> you wouldn't have to mess with any of the setting you set up for the vnc
[03:44] <t3084> you can leave it as is for convienent local access
[03:44] <t3084> but if you can connect to your machine from outside
[03:44] <t3084> so can anyone else with enough time to sit around and bruteforce your vnc password
[03:45] <xrdodrx> :(
[03:45] <t3084> and 8 characters doesn't take TOO long
[03:45] <xrdodrx> yeah, that would be a problem
[03:45] <t3084> and they don't have to have anythign against you
[03:45] <t3084> it's their computer doing the searching and work
[03:45] <xrdodrx> if you want to stick around for a bit and help me with this, I'd really appreciate ti
[03:45] <t3084> it's pretty simple actually
[03:45] <xrdodrx> I knew it was insecure, but didn't think it was that big a deal lol
[03:45] <t3084> install openssh
[03:46] <t3084> just port 5900 being open is a flag for anyone else to see whats going on
[03:46] <t3084> i need to set up ssh tunnel access on my homenetwork too, I just redid my server so I need to get it back up
[03:47] <xrdodrx> alright, installed ssh
[03:47] <xrdodrx> I've used it before to get a shell, had no clue I could put VNC over it lol
[03:47] <t3084> you can do anything over ssh
[03:48] <t3084> you can open your x programs on another box with ssh
[03:48] <t3084> no real need for vnc from other linux/xserver machines
[03:49] <t3084> so your machine should be accessible already
[03:49] <xrdodrx> t3084, I like to be able to interact with the deluge and xchat I have open at home
[03:49] <xrdodrx> instead of opening a new session over SSH
[03:49] <t3084> there are ways
[03:50] <t3084> but it's cumbersome
[03:50] <t3084> and usually not worth the effort to reproduce that effect other than vnc :p
[03:50] <t3084> but atleast with ssh and vnc it's secure
[03:50] <xrdodrx> I'll be able to use AndroidVNC to connect?
[03:50] <xrdodrx> :>
[03:50] <t3084> test real quick to see if port 22 is open on your computer
[03:51] <t3084> yea you should be able to
[03:51] <t3084> on a normal machine you would type
[03:51] <xrdodrx> port 22 is open
[03:52] <t3084> ssh -L 5900:hostipaddress:5900
[03:52] <t3084> err
[03:52] <t3084> ssh -L 5900:hostipaddress:5900 -p 22 hostipaddress
[03:52] <t3084> oh the phone
[03:52] <t3084> you can install ssh tunnel
[03:52] <t3084> or connect bot
[03:53] <xrdodrx> t3084, I'm going to be connecting over a variety of IP's though
[03:53] <xrdodrx> school, whatever Sprint gives me (3G), etc
[03:53] <xrdodrx> sometimes friend's houses
[03:53] <t3084> you only need to know your IP
[03:53] <t3084> you don't need to know the IP you are accessing from
[03:53] <xrdodrx> oh, I see
[03:55] <t3084> I'm making sure the setting will work
[03:55] <xrdodrx> t3084, http://paste.ubuntu.com/629121/
[03:56] <t3084> oh ok
[03:56] <t3084> easy
[03:56] <t3084> since you have vnc on that computer
[03:56] <t3084> ssh -L 5901:hostipaddress:5900 -p 22 hostipaddress
[03:56] <t3084> or some other port that is not used
[03:56] <t3084> ssh -L 5899:hostipaddress:5900 -p 22 hostipaddress
[03:56] <t3084> pretty much you are telling hte local computer
[03:57] <t3084> for every connection you see at 5899 send it to this address and port
[03:59] <t3084> cuz I'm on windows right now i had to install openssh
[03:59] <xrdodrx> okay
[03:59] <xrdodrx> no errors
[03:59] <t3084> ok cool
[03:59] <xrdodrx> it logged me in and kicked me out lol
[04:00] <t3084> try the same thing
[04:00] <t3084> but
[04:00] <t3084> ssh -L 5899:hostipaddress:5900 -p 22 user@hostipaddress
[04:01] <t3084> hmm
[04:01] <t3084> wait
[04:01] <t3084> the pastebin you showed me
[04:01] <t3084> it let you log in? or errored?
[04:01] <xrdodrx> I did
[04:01] <xrdodrx> ssh -L 5901:192.168.1.5:5900 -p 22 192.168.1.5
[04:01] <t3084> you are on the other machine yea?
[04:01] <xrdodrx> no.
[04:01] <t3084> not the one you want to log into
[04:01] <t3084> :p
[04:01] <xrdodrx> lol :<
[04:01] <t3084> ok
[04:01] <t3084> hehe
[04:02] <t3084> you don't need to do anything else to your machne to set it up
[04:02] <xrdodrx> oh, right
[04:02] <t3084> we just need to connect you to it from another
[04:02] <xrdodrx> ok
[04:02] <t3084> from your other machine do the ssh command
[04:02] <xrdodrx> can it be a phone?
[04:02] <xrdodrx> the other laptop runs windows 7
[04:02] <t3084> use putty to try
[04:02] <xrdodrx> okay
[04:02] <t3084> before we jump on the phone
[04:03] <t3084> cuz we want to be sure it's working just fine
[04:04] <xrdodrx> ok, installed putty
[04:04] <xrdodrx> and can log in via shell
[04:04] <t3084> ok exit putty
[04:05] <xrdodrx> k
[04:05] <t3084> but get to the setting screen
[04:05] <t3084> enter the info like y7ou would normally log in
[04:05] <t3084> but don't log in
[04:05] <xrdodrx> k
[04:05] <t3084> in the category on the left
[04:05] <t3084> go to ssh
[04:05] <t3084> then tunnels
[04:05] <xrdodrx> k
[04:05] <t3084> in source port
[04:06] <t3084> put 5899
[04:06] <t3084> in destination
[04:06] <t3084> 192.168.1.5:5900
[04:06] <t3084> then click add
[04:06] <t3084> then you can log in
[04:07] <t3084> after it logs in try to vnc to localhost:5899
[04:07] <xrdodrx> with 127.0.01:5899?
[04:07] <xrdodrx> right
[04:07] <t3084> yea
[04:09] <xrdodrx> very nice
[04:09] <xrdodrx> works
[04:09] <t3084> cool
[04:09] <xrdodrx> so if I terminate my SSH connection, this VNC in turn closes?
[04:09] <xrdodrx> cool :D
[04:09] <t3084> yes
[04:09] <xrdodrx> I assume I could do the same on my phone with connectbot
[04:10] <t3084> yes
[04:10] <t3084> see I'm trying to use ssh tunnel
[04:10] <t3084> but it's not connecting for me
[04:10] <t3084> could be my setup though
[04:17] <xrdodrx> t3084, wow, that was easy, got it working here
[04:17] <t3084> lol see wtf
[04:17] <xrdodrx> Used the SSH Tunnel application instead of ConnectBot
[04:18] <t3084> i'm having a hard time now
[04:18] <t3084> lol
[04:18] <xrdodrx> then connected to VNC with 127.0.0.1:5899
[04:18] <t3084> see i know's it's one of my settings
[04:18] <t3084> and presto
[04:18] <t3084> now you are way more secure than before
[04:18] <xrdodrx> Closed port 5900 and opened 22 in my router settings
[04:18] <xrdodrx> you quite possibly saved my life ;-)
[04:18] <t3084> haha
[04:18] <t3084> you never know!
[04:18] <t3084> digital content is our lives now
[04:19] <xrdodrx> exactly
[04:19] <xrdodrx> great thing about this is it's behind two passwords and my username
[04:19] <xrdodrx> :)
[04:19] <t3084> precisely
[04:19] <t3084> no protection like redundency
[04:22] <xrdodrx> t3084, thanks for teaching me so much about SSH and networking! :)
[04:22] <xrdodrx> you're like the networking genie lol
[04:22] <t3084> haha
[04:22] <t3084> I;ve just spent MANY hours workign on it
[04:23] <t3084> and I still barely know stuff
[04:23] <t3084> or at least i feel like I don't
[04:23] <t3084> i work with computers
[04:23] <t3084> i was a system admin at my old job
[04:24] <t3084> amungst other titles :|
=== t3084_ is now known as t3084
=== t3084_ is now known as t3084
[06:25] <bc81> guys i need some help please.  when i use thunar move files (drag an drop) from one folder to another within my USB hard drive, it copies the file instead of moving it.  this is for xubuntu 10.10 the HDD is mounted in fstab like this: /dev/sdc1 /media/seagate ntfs-3g defaults,locale=en_US.utf8 0 0
[06:27] <bc81> the guy in #ubuntu directed me here he said, "that's a thunar problem. has nothing to do with how you mounted it. and I suggest you ask #xubuntu"
[06:28] <t3084> you know you are moving it for sure?
[06:29] <t3084> if you are just drag and dropping it will only copy
[06:29] <t3084> just covering bases here
[06:30] <bc81> t3084: hmm..well are you sure drag and drop is to copy?  it seems this just started behaving like this..i seem to remember it always moving the files (very quickly at that)  these are large files
[06:35] <t3084> between different drives
[06:35] <t3084> same drive moving is instant
[06:35] <t3084> but between different drive it won't move, only copy
[06:36] <t3084> which should be default on any file manager
[06:36] <bisi> Best C++ programming solution in Xubuntu?
[06:38] <bazhang> ide?
[06:38] <t3084> vim :p
[06:38] <t3084> hehe
[06:39] <t3084> emacs
[06:39] <bazhang> !ide | bisi
[06:39] <ubottu> bisi: Programming editors/suites: Terminal-based: vi/vim, emacs - KDE: Kate, KDevelop, Quanta+, Umbrello - GNOME: gvim, gedit, anjuta, pida, monodevelop, geany - Others: eclipse, netbeans, qtcreator
[06:40] <bc81> t3084: this is happening when moving files WITHIN the USB hard drive..that's why i'm here :P
[06:41] <bisi> Emacs? Working on learning the commands now.
[06:41] <bc81> i'm wondering if my mounting options are wrong, or maybe it's happening because the drive is 90% full?  i donn't know about these things
[06:42] <bisi> ubottu: Wow.
[06:42] <t3084> wait
[06:42] <t3084> so your mount cammand up there
[06:42] <t3084> if for your harddrive?
[06:42] <bc81> yes, for my USB, NTFS formatted 1TB seagate hard drive
[06:43] <t3084> well we can eliminate mounting issues with cli
[06:44] <bc81> ok tell me, how can i do that cli, i'm still a bit new to this
[06:44] <t3084> mv /media/seagate/path/to/file /media/seagate/path/to/newfile
[06:44] <bc81> ok, i'll try that
[06:44] <t3084> any recent updates that you know of?
[06:49] <bc81> t3084: no i just accept all updates as they come.  i tried that command, and it movied the file instantly
[06:49] <bc81> to another folder within the USB harddrive
[06:49] <bc81> just as expected (sorry to lineflood)
[06:50] <t3084> i'm horrible with line flood... but I often find in some channel you get left behind if you don't :p
[06:50] <t3084> ok so it's not a mounting issue
[06:51] <t3084> also try
[06:51] <bc81> yea because when i try to drag and drop that same file back into it's proper folder, it makes a copy
[06:51] <t3084> right click and drag the file to it's place
[06:51] <t3084> then drop
[06:51] <t3084> it should offer a menu
[06:51] <bc81> yes!  now i can move it fine
[06:52] <t3084> how about like you use to?
[06:52] <t3084> the other option too is to cut the file
[06:52] <t3084> then paste it
[06:53] <bc81> ok great to know.  but why does it seem like this is a new thing?  is there some way to set thunar to always move instead of copy?
[06:53] <t3084> there usually are options in the preferences
[06:53] <t3084> to set a default action
[06:54] <t3084> also holding alt, or ctrl, or shit, or maybe some combo while left clicking and dragging it should do various operations
[06:55] <bc81> ok, thanks for the help i really appreciate it
[06:56] <t3084> no problem :)
[06:56] <bc81> gotta go now, see ya :P
[14:28] <Wizard> ping
[14:28] <Wizard> i have a problem with document editing in abiword, and it has no suppoert/help page :P
[14:29] <Wizard> how can i suggest abiword i wan't to continue enumeration instead of start new?
[14:29] <charlie-tca> Actually, it does have. hit F1 in abiword and help opens in your browser
[14:30] <Wizard> i've checked it, it is outdated and has many empty pages or not existing links
[14:35] <charlie-tca> There is a difference between "has no support/help page"  and "can't find what I need" - http://www.abisource.com/help/en-US/index.html
[14:41] <Wizard> charlie-tca: there is a difference between "has documentation" and has "few html files which are explaining nothing"
[14:41] <Wizard> i wonder if you've read that
[14:41] <charlie-tca> Yes, I have, and if you look at it, it is actually the website for abiword.
[15:21] <knome> the abiword site is ugly
[15:24] <charlie-tca> yes
[15:30] <charlie-tca> It seems they are more interested in developing abiword than having pretty websites and good docs
[15:31] <charlie-tca> Wizard: best I can tell you is to file a bug against abiword docs for that. They are pretty good about adding missing things when we tell them about it
[15:49] <xrdodrx> The Abiword site isn't that bad
[15:50] <xrdodrx> sure, it's not "web 2.0", but it still serves its purpose quite well
[17:04] <Wizard> too bad abiword doesn't
[17:04] <Wizard> but i see libre writter (or whatever it's called) has sam issues with numbering
[17:05] <Wizard> i think i get used to lyx simplicity too much
[17:05] <Wizard> :/
[17:06] <Wizard> so i think it's more my fault than abiword's
[17:06] <charlie-tca> oh, that! yeah, it is a monster trying to make that stuff work the way I want it to.
[17:08] <knome> it works good as long as you don't start modifying lists
[17:19] <Wizard> knome: that's what people do with them while editing :D
[17:19] <knome> i know.
[17:20] <knome> though, every time i'm writing a document and need to add a list, especially a numbered list, i think again if i really need it
[17:20] <knome> most of the times i don't
[17:28] <Wizard> nah, seems the fastest way to get rid of bugs is to join developer community :>
[17:29] <Wizard> how does it look like? are xubuntu devs distributed across xubuntu core applications and cooperate and lobby?
[17:30] <knome> Wizard, there is pretty much only one *technical* developer in xubuntu.
[17:30] <Wizard> :o
[17:30] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu devs do not work on abiword
[17:31] <Wizard> nah, forget about about abiword
[17:32] <Wizard> i use it as rtf editor :>
[17:32] <charlie-tca> try geany?
[17:32] <Wizard> is that true what knome said?
[17:33] <Wizard> that there is only one technical xubuntu dev?
[17:33] <charlie-tca> yes
[17:33] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu does not code, mostly we sync/merge with debian
[17:34] <Wizard> мхм
[17:34] <Wizard> mhm
[17:35] <charlie-tca> As a distributionl,
[17:35] <charlie-tca> As a distribution, we package various pieces to make them work together
[17:38] <Sysi> upstream → debian → ubuntu
[17:38] <Sysi> debian not included always
=== ubuntu__ is now known as valdur55
[17:44] <korax> guten Tag
[17:53] <Wizard> returning to abiword, am I wrong or it's rulers are scaled in inches? o_O
[17:55] <Wizard> ehh
[17:56] <GridCube> Wizard, yes they are, but you can change it
[17:56] <charlie-tca> It is set by locale to start, I think. It is also changable in preferences or page setup
[17:56] <GridCube> i don't really know who in the world still uses inches, but the abiword people seem to think people do XD
[17:57] <GridCube> charlie-tca, is not setted by locale
[17:57] <GridCube> that might be a bug right?
[17:57] <Wizard> it is not set by locale
[17:57] <charlie-tca> um, the United States still uses inches
[17:57] <Wizard> are inches used anywhere today?
[17:57]  * GridCube doesn't know
[17:57] <Wizard> lol
[17:57] <Wizard> charlie-tca: really?
[17:57] <charlie-tca> yes
[17:58] <Sysi> exept nasa
[17:58] <charlie-tca> we still use the non-metric system of measurement
[17:58] <Sysi> aren't paper sizes made to work by inches?
[17:58] <GridCube> yes, that is true, sad, but true
[17:58] <knome> "The inch is one of the most common units of length in the United States, and is also widely used in the United Kingdom, and Canada, ..."
[17:58] <GridCube> 3 countries wow!
[17:58] <Wizard> GridCube: pretty much to make it default
[17:58]  * GridCube will stop trolling non SI users now
[17:59] <GridCube> you go to >edit >propierties(options) >change it to centimeters
[17:59] <Wizard> GridCube: yeah, i've found it
[17:59] <GridCube> :)
[18:00] <Wizard> it was only strange to me that it uses it by default :>
[18:01] <GridCube> yes i found the same strangeness when i was using it the other day, wanted to edit some stuff and went... What? Ô.o
[18:01] <Wizard> and i reallyt didn't know that inches are still in use
[18:01] <Wizard> sorry for trolling
[18:01] <GridCube> nah, i was doing it, not you ;)
[18:02] <Sysi> (all provoking isn't trolling)
[18:03] <GridCube> (ok)
[18:04] <Wizard> knome, charlie-tca: that's what i've ment when i was saying about inconsistency and small bugs
[18:11] <Wizard> rotflmao :/
[18:11] <Wizard> or rather: omfg
[18:11] <Wizard> pidgin stores unciphered passwords :D
[18:12] <xrdodrx> Wizard, if you don't file them as bugs how will they ever be fixed? lol
[18:12] <xrdodrx> I mean, sure there are some small inconsistencies, but those exist in every OS
[18:13] <xrdodrx> I would have never given that a second thought being American, but it does make more sense for cm to be default
[18:13] <Wizard> xrdodrx: i will fill
[18:14] <Wizard> i want xubuntu to be best ever ;)
[18:14] <knome> Wizard, please watch your language, even in abbreviations. thanks
[18:14] <xrdodrx> same :D
[18:15] <xrdodrx> it's the best distro I know of :D
[18:15] <Wizard> knome: huh?
[18:15] <knome> !guidelines
[18:15] <ubottu> The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines
[18:15] <Wizard> ah, k, sorry
[18:15] <xrdodrx> <Wizard> or rather: omfg
[18:15] <xrdodrx> ;)
[18:15] <knome> yeah, we try to keep the channel family friendly
[18:15] <Wizard> most #*ubuntu* do
[18:16] <knome> all should.
[18:16] <knome> some just probably have a higher tolerance
[18:16] <charlie-tca> What makes anyone think defaulting to the English measurement system is wrong?
[18:17] <Wizard> nobody use it?
[18:17] <charlie-tca> I see no reason for anything to default to metric system
[18:17] <knome> charlie-tca, nothing should default on anything really, but we have to have a default.
[18:17] <charlie-tca> I never use the metric system, since I live in America, it doesn't use it
[18:17] <Sysi> Wizard: i consider "about entire north america" to be more than nobody
[18:17] <xrdodrx> maybe it could change with locale?
[18:17] <xrdodrx> I'm not sure if that's possible.
[18:18] <xrdodrx> for instance, en-US, en-CA, en-GB get English, and the rest of the locales get Metric?
[18:18] <knome> yes, it definitely should ce changed according to the locale, if the user didn't force a non-locale-default
[18:18] <knome> s/ce/be/
[18:18] <Wizard> Sysi: the point is it's opposite end of the world for me, strange, foreign country, and personally i don't care, they could use parsecs, but i wan't my cm
[18:18] <knome> well yeah, that's problematic. language != location.
[18:18] <charlie-tca> but that is different than saying it should NOT be english, just because that is not the system you use
[18:19] <Wizard> knome is right, i've set polish locale - i wan't centimeters, 24h clock and monday as a week begin
[18:19] <Wizard> want*
[18:19] <knome> Wizard, time to file an abiword bug, if the units are fine everywhere else
[18:20] <knome> xrdodrx, that's not so easy either. doesn't make sense to have an en-METRIC locale.
[18:20] <charlie-tca> If that bug is to force cm, it will be killed, though
[18:20] <Wizard> not to force cm
[18:20] <knome> charlie-tca, no, it's about changing units according to locale
[18:20] <charlie-tca> That will work. I will even forward it upstream
[18:21] <xrdodrx> knome, I don't understand, the English system is used in Canada, the UK and the US
[18:21] <knome> charlie-tca, nobody is trying to force you use centimeters, but we also expect you not to force us to use inches ;)
[18:21] <charlie-tca> I agree with that, knome
[18:21] <knome> xrdodrx, probably elsewhere also. the quote was from wikipedia.
[18:21] <charlie-tca> I thought it did set it by locale, so yes, that should be a bug
[18:22] <knome> xrdodrx, but what if i want the a british english language with metric system?
[18:22] <knome> xrdodrx, en-GB-metric? nonono.
[18:22] <charlie-tca> Anything that does not set things by your locale is a bug
[18:22] <xrdodrx> yeah, that could be bad knome :)
[18:22] <knome> better to just set the units to metric manually.
[18:22] <knome> you can even create a script to do that.
[18:22] <Wizard> knome: LC_* are for you
[18:22] <knome> or if you're a control freak, a ubuntu package that does it for you.
[18:23] <knome> Wizard, yes, i know. the comment was to emphasize that it doesn't make sense to force language-measurement unit-whatever pairs, that are not common
[18:23] <charlie-tca> Now if only my printer knew what inches are...
[18:23] <Wizard> small trolling led to pretty interesting discussion
[18:24] <Wizard> GridCube: high five ;P
[18:24] <charlie-tca> I can select paper by 8.5x11, but it shows the actual measurement in mm
[18:24] <knome> well, we don't really like trolling wither...
[18:24] <knome> *either
[18:24] <knome> Wizard, more trolling will lead to something much more interesting
[18:24] <Wizard> nah, i've already said everything on that topic
[18:25] <knome> Wizard, that comment covered any other topics as well. :)
[18:25] <knome> the only thing that discussion is supposed to lead is a bug filed against abiword.
[18:25] <GridCube> :P
[18:26] <Wizard> i'm just going to return to my language essay
[18:26] <Wizard> do they have launchpad account?
[18:26] <knome> Wizard, you could just file that against xubuntu, and charlie-tca can fix the bug ;)
[18:26] <knome> Wizard, just remember to point him to it
[18:27] <charlie-tca> subscribe me
[18:27] <knome> https://launchpad.net/abiword
[18:27] <charlie-tca> file it using ubuntu-bug abiword
[18:27] <Wizard> k
[18:27] <charlie-tca> or I will ask for more information
[18:27] <knome> heh
[18:27] <charlie-tca> my name in launchpad is still charlie-tca
[18:27] <GridCube> Wizard, use >ubuntu-bug abiword            on a terminal
[18:28] <knome> the imperial bug sheriff :P
[18:28] <knome> (pun intended)
[18:28] <charlie-tca> just a simple user that volunteers sometimes ;)
[18:29] <Wizard> hmm
[18:29] <Wizard> they don't track bugs in launchpad
[18:29] <GridCube> Wizard, do what i told you too
[18:29] <Wizard> i am ;)
[18:30] <GridCube> you need a launchpad acount tho
[18:30] <knome> good time to create one.
[18:31] <Wizard> i have one
[18:31] <Wizard> but i've never used ubuntu-bug
[18:33] <GridCube> :P
[18:34] <Wizard> nice tool
[18:34] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu tracks bugs in launchpad. Abiword has their own bug tracker, and we do not track all their bugs, so if you file it there, no one in Xubuntu knows it.
[18:36] <GridCube> i can second this bug, i did also had to change the measuring system to the one earthlings use
[18:36] <GridCube> XD
[18:37]  * GridCube should really stop bugging non SI users
[18:37] <Wizard> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abiword/+bug/799490
[18:37] <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 799490 in abiword (Ubuntu) "abiword uses inches regardless of locale settings" [Undecided,New]
[18:38] <Wizard> GridCube: go on
[18:38] <Wizard> there are few millions of europeans who await your comment ;)
[18:38] <Wizard> now i should really get back to my homework
[18:38] <Wizard> :>
[18:39] <GridCube> go :D
[18:44] <Wizard> charlie-tca: should i do anything else with it?
[18:51] <charlie-tca> looking
[18:53] <charlie-tca> looks good to me
[18:53] <charlie-tca> Thank you
[18:54] <Wizard> no problem
[18:54] <Wizard> expect more
[18:54] <Wizard> :P
[18:54] <charlie-tca> Looking for them
[18:56] <Wizard> ubuntu-bug takes executable name or package name?
[19:00] <charlie-tca> package name
[19:01] <Wizard> rotfl, i wanted to fill pidgin's behaviour as a bug and launchpad found few simmilar bugs
[19:01] <Wizard> all "won't fix" :S
[19:01] <charlie-tca> pidgin is in its own world
[19:01] <Wizard> seems so
[19:02] <charlie-tca> If it is a problem with a plugin, the pidgin devs refuse the bug
[19:02] <charlie-tca> plugins are written independently, so they expect the plugin author to fix their own bugs.
[19:04] <Wizard> k, np, i have another one
[19:08] <Wizard> done ;P
[19:09] <Wizard> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/799495
[19:09] <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 799495 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xfdesktop does not respect thunar settings" [Undecided,New]
[19:11] <Sysi> it's possible that they'll add that feature, but main focus of development propably will be on merging/replacing xfdesktop with thunar
[19:11] <Wizard> good thing
[19:12] <Wizard> but then they will probably get rid of minimised window icons, which i uese :S
[19:13] <Wizard> use*
[19:15] <Sysi> possible
=== Fedora is now known as Guest31322
[19:31] <Guest31322> It's been too many years since I used irc.  How do I register a nick?
[19:31] <Sysi> !register
[19:31] <ubottu> Information about registering your nickname: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat/Registration - Type « /nick <nickname> » to select your nickname. Registration help available by typing /join #freenode
[19:31] <Guest31322> Thanks. :)
[19:32] <Wizard> :Д
[19:32] <Wizard> :D
[19:32] <Guest31322> Alright, how about this... is it possible for me to get rid of the "envelope" in the notifier bar?
[19:33] <Wizard> of course
[19:33] <Guest31322> Google told me nothing. :)
[19:33] <Wizard> it is possible to switch to old notification area icons for each application
[19:33] <Wizard> which i do not prefere
[19:33] <charlie-tca> Try removing pidgin?
[19:33] <Guest31322> I deleted pidgin.  Still there
[19:34] <Guest31322> So, I'd have to add a notifier for wireless, battery, sound and all that individually?
[19:34] <charlie-tca> Then you would have to remove indicator plugin and go to notification area
[19:34] <charlie-tca> It would work like it used it, before 11.04
[19:35] <Guest31322> I never used Xubuntu pre 11.04  :)
[19:35] <Guest31322> I haven't used Ubuntu since like 7 something
[19:35] <charlie-tca> oops
[19:35] <Guest31322> heh
[19:36] <Guest31322> I've been using Zenwalk for quite a number of years.
[19:36] <charlie-tca> okay, so you would add notification area, and tell each app in it's preferences to use a tray icon
[19:36] <Guest31322> Gotcha.  Thanks
[19:36] <charlie-tca> Some won't do it, but many will
[19:36] <Guest31322> Maybe I'll leave it and find something to use it with. :)
[19:37] <charlie-tca> I too find it kind of annoying, since I don't use it for anything. Pidgin doesn't work for me.
[19:38] <charlie-tca> I *think* the envelope is to say "message indicators here", though. I am not sure
[19:38] <Guest31322> Yeah.  I only use gTalk and I just leave gMail open. :)
[19:38] <Guest31322> Alright.  Off to register. :)
[21:38] <theg721> Hello!
[21:39] <theg721> Does anyone know if Free Pascal and Lazarus work on Xubuntu?
[21:41] <theg721> Anyone?
[21:42] <charlie-tca> !info lazarus
[21:42] <ubottu> lazarus (source: lazarus): IDE for Free Pascal - Meta Package. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.28.2-12 (natty), package size 16 kB, installed size 68 kB (Only available for all i386 powerpc sparc amd64 armel)
[21:42] <charlie-tca> lazarus should, if you have a 386 system. May not work on 64bit installs
[21:42] <charlie-tca> oops
[21:42] <charlie-tca> take it back, yes it should
[21:42] <theg721> What about a Pentium 4?
[21:42] <charlie-tca> !info freepascal
[21:42] <ubottu> Package freepascal does not exist in natty
[21:42] <theg721> a 32 bit P4?
[21:42] <charlie-tca> yupo
[21:42] <theg721> Hmm
[21:43] <theg721> Alright, thanks.
[21:59] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 60 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
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