[02:13] <Lint> i've downloaded oneiric iso, but it doesn't fit on CD. I've put in on flash drive butit doesn't apperas bootable. what to do?
[02:16] <Omega> Follow the USB drive instructions: http://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu/download
[02:27] <Lint> you mean I cannot just put iso on usb drive? the tool described in the article doesn't work.
[02:32] <CarlFK> Lint: no, cuz it the kernel will try to find the root file system on a CD drive
[03:00] <IdleOne> I thought you could dd the iso now?
[03:00] <IdleOne> maybe I am wrong
[03:00] <IdleOne> haven't tried it myself
[03:05] <charlie-tca> You are supposed be able to copy the iso to a usb drive now.
[03:08] <IdleOne> just a plain copy/paste?
[03:08] <IdleOne> and it should boot?
[03:09] <IdleOne> think I'll give it a test
[03:10] <Omega> I don't think a simple copy paste would work, you have to write the image to the drive
[03:10] <charlie-tca> as far as I know, yes
[03:10] <IdleOne> won't hurt to try...I'll report my failures
[03:11] <charlie-tca> You have to burn to cd, but can copy to usb, I thought.
[03:11] <charlie-tca> You no longer use usb creator, I got that much anyway
[03:11] <Omega> I think you still have to 'burn' to usb though.
[03:11] <Omega> You can copy it from the cd to the usb.
[03:11] <Omega> At least, this is how I understand it.
[03:12] <IdleOne> hehe, would be nice if this was documented somewhere
[03:12] <IdleOne> I mean with actual working info
[03:13] <charlie-tca> Here is the docs I know of -
[03:13] <charlie-tca> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-June/033495.html
[03:18] <Omega> Yep, you need to write it to usb: http://blog.einval.com/2011/01/07#isohybrid_CDs
[03:20] <Omega> Oh, maybe we were all saying the same thing, but misunderstanding eachother.
[03:21] <CarlFK> # dd if=debian-testing-i386-netinst.iso of=/dev/sdX
[03:22] <CarlFK> commands remove the need to understand :)
[03:24] <charlie-tca> So you have to dd it, huh?
[03:24] <charlie-tca> Still, I guess that is better than having to use USB-Creator
[03:25] <CarlFK> maybe you can patch cdrecord to write to a usb stick :)
[03:26] <charlie-tca> heh, anything is possible
[04:17] <IdleOne> how long does a dd usually take?
[04:17] <IdleOne> nm, 171.707 s
[04:31] <IdleOne> My USB is /dev/sdd1 do I use sdd or sdd1 in dd if=oneirirc.iso of=/dev/sdd?
[09:41] <udoprog> I'm looking for gnome-appearance-properties while running oneiric dev, apt-file claims that it resides in gnome-control-center (after purge and update), but when installing the package the command (/usr/bin/gnome-appearance-properties) is nowhere to be found, any help?
[10:04] <geser> the gnome control center got redone, I'm not sure if parts of it can be started seperately and don't know what happened to the appearance options
[15:08] <Ian_Corne> gief back nvidia-current :(
[15:24] <Roasted> With Ubuntu 11.10 coming with Gnome 3 by default, is that to suggest that Gnome Shell is officially supported by Ubuntu beginning with 11.10, despite Unity being the default interface?
[15:25] <ikonia> Roasted: I didn't think it was going to be in the official repo
[15:25] <ikonia> !gnome-shell
[15:25] <ikonia> oops
[15:25] <arand> Roasted: Supposedly, yes
[15:25] <ikonia> !info gnome-shell
[15:25] <ikonia> ah, it's in universe, not main
[15:25] <Roasted> Is that to say that Gnome Shell on Ubuntu will be "as supported" as Fedora 15, which ships by default? Or am I being partially delusional here?
[15:26] <ikonia> Roasted: it's in universe which isn't "official" software support, hang on I'll find the webpage with the definitions
[15:27] <Roasted> I just really do not like Unity... yet I want to stick with Ubuntu, however I also want to use something that is well supported too.
[15:27] <ikonia> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories
[15:27] <Roasted> thanks bro
[15:27] <ikonia> basically you're depending on the motu guys for problem resolution
[15:27] <Roasted> sigh
[15:27] <Roasted> Ubuntu... why'd you have to do this.
[15:28] <Roasted> and by the way, who are motu? Is that the universe repo manager team?
[15:31] <ikonia> Roasted: "masters of the universe", but yes, the guys who build the software for that repo
[15:32] <Roasted> So are motu guys not official debian/ubuntu/canonical employees?
[15:34] <ikonia> correct, just guys who do some software packages as their contributions
[15:34] <ikonia> some excellent guys
[15:34] <Roasted> sure sounds like it.
[15:35] <Roasted> I'm sure they'll do a good job with gnome shell. there's certainly enough demand for it. :P
[15:35] <ikonia> or not.....
[15:36] <ikonia> some packages are maintained well, others not, it really depends on the individual rather than demand
[15:36] <Roasted> I would think demand could dictate the push for the repos though as well. If there's a world of people complaining for a certain software package, I would think at some point somebody would step up to manage it properly.
[15:37] <Roasted> in a perfect world, at least.
[15:37] <ikonia> that's not how it works at all
[15:37] <ikonia> the motu's are "people" not obliged to do anything,
[15:37] <Roasted> I just hate to ditch Ubuntu due to lack of Gnome Shell support. I love Ubuntu and have no issue installing a DE of my choice. I just don't want it to be treated like a POS because Ubuntu decided to go off in Unity land.
[15:38] <ikonia> that's a decision canonical have made, you have to chose unsupported, or not use it
[15:38] <ikonia> from 12.04 (I think that's the version) the gnome 2 desktop components *gnome fall back* will be dropped
[15:38] <Roasted> well, I'll choose the latter if GS support is abandoned cold turkey.
[15:38] <Roasted> meaning what?
[15:39] <ikonia> no non-unity desktop components
[15:39] <Roasted> meaning gnome shell will be, essentially, prohibited?
[15:39] <ikonia> let me see if I can find the url
[15:39] <ikonia> Roasted: not prohibieted, but the components will not be anything to do with the release
[15:40] <ikonia> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ubuntu_releases
[15:40] <Roasted> I'm not sure I'm entirely following. Is this a low-blow against Gnome Shell, or am I missing something?
[15:40] <ikonia> not the link I was looking for, but the 12.04 release will not contain the classic gnome look for fall back
[15:40] <Roasted> oh
[15:40] <Roasted> I'm not worried about Classic Gnome...
[15:40] <charlie-tca> gnome3 will still be there
[15:40] <ikonia> ahh, 11.10 will not include it either
[15:40] <Roasted> I'm talking about Gnome Shell, based on Gnome 3.
[15:41] <Roasted> 11.10's fallback is Unity 2D.
[15:41] <ikonia> well, gnome shell is not part of the official repos at all
[15:41] <Roasted> I understand that. I'm just trying to get a feel for how "out in the cold" Gnome Shell will be treated in regard to Ubuntu's recent adoption of Unity.
[15:41] <ikonia> totally
[15:42] <Roasted> Though, if LXDE can some out of no where and with a small team become an official release of the *buntu team, I would hardly think they'd ignore Gnome Shell all together.
[15:42] <ikonia> it's up the motu members to manage and maintain gnome shell
[15:42] <ikonia> they would as it's a direct opposition to canonicals direction
[15:42] <Roasted> But how's that make sense when Unity is ran on top of Gnome?
[15:43] <ikonia> because canonicals direction is unity - so gnome shell is in opposition to that, so I can't see it getting support
[15:44] <Roasted> ikonia, I guess my point is this. If Lubuntu has support, along with Xubuntu, Kubuntu, and Unity is based on Gnome 3, to see Ubuntu/Canonical flat out "ignore" Gnome Shell I would think would shoot themselves in the foot.
[15:44] <ikonia> that's up to them
[15:44] <Roasted> Right.
[15:44] <ikonia> but xubuntu/kubuntu etc etc are different, not in oppositiion to official direction]
[15:44] <Roasted> I'm just speaking from the standpoint of... I don't see why.
[15:44] <ikonia> gnome shell has been activly dropped,
[15:44] <Roasted> I don't see how Gnome Shell can be in anymore opposition of official direction as XFCE LXDE and KDE are.
[15:44] <Roasted> They're different. They're all different.
[15:45] <Roasted> It's just another DE in the crowd to choose from.
[15:45] <Roasted> Treating a DE as a direct competitor would sound foolish.
[15:45] <ikonia> that's up to them, lets see what happens
[15:45] <Roasted> Especially considering the similar core.
[15:45] <Roasted> Yeah.
[15:45] <Roasted> I don't know. It's making Mint and Fedora look 100% more attractive. I hope they don't make a bad move here.
[15:47] <Roasted> ikonia, can I ask you a question based on your personal opinion?
[15:47] <ikonia> sure
[15:47] <Roasted> ikonia, which DE to you tend to use most?
[15:47] <Roasted> or prefer, etc.
[15:48] <ikonia> gnome mostly, ocassionally xfce, I dabble with fluxbox and lxde on occasion for my own interest
[15:48] <ikonia> so it varies a bit
[15:48] <Roasted> I see. I tinker with many as well, but I try to stick to one for extended periods of time to learn more about it.
[15:49] <ikonia> gnome is the most straight foward and out of the box easy to use, so I have no reason to change
[15:49] <Roasted> ikonia, if you're a gnome guy, which are you going to use in the future?
[15:50] <ikonia> I'm trying to adapt to gnome shell at the moment, it's a big jump
[15:50] <Roasted> I agree.
[15:50] <Roasted> so you'll likely use GS over Unity?
[15:51] <ikonia> totally
[15:51] <Roasted> You sure do a good job of holding back biasness during conversation.
[15:51] <Roasted> I would have taken you for a huge Unity fan considering how black/white you were in regard to Gnome Shell's support when I was asking about it.
[15:52] <ikonia> there are 2 different positions, the realistic one and the personal opinion one
[15:52] <Roasted> Yeah. I agree there.
[15:52] <Roasted> I don't like to think negatively about something until I use it extensively.
[15:52] <Roasted> My opinion about Apple, for example, was idle until I owned one, etc.
[15:53] <Roasted> But the more I use Unity the more I dislike it. However I want to stay with Ubuntu, so it's a little frustrating having two things I enjoy yet they not be in the same boat.
[15:54] <ikonia> I don't think it will be realisic to use ubuntu in a production type environment if you want to use gnome-shell, that's my personal stance
[15:56] <Roasted> I agree. I'm pushing Ubuntu/XFCE at the moment to use in a production in our environment. But even for personal use, if I'm going to use something and rely on it I try to stick to a more supported avenue.
[15:56] <Roasted> er, wait..
[15:56] <Roasted> You're referring that if I were to deploy GS as the primary need, then you wouldn't use Ubuntu?
[15:56] <Roasted> I thought you were saying you wouldn't use GS in production.
[15:57] <ikonia> Roasted: no, if I want to use a current gnome 3 desktop with gnome shell and get support/package maintenance, I won't be using ubuntu
[15:57] <Roasted> Yeah. Our production environment is a school, so I'm not sure about Gnome Shell in a school. It might be a little distracting for students.
[15:58] <Roasted> So I don't know if I'd even deploy GS, regardless of the OS/support.
[15:58] <Roasted> ikonia, given that ultimatum with wnating GS in a production environment, which avenue would you take? Fedora?
[15:59] <ikonia> possibly, but a 6 month rolling cycle and 12 month (or is it 18) doesn't appeal to me
[16:01] <Roasted> well, I'm running Fedora on my laptop here, and it sure is nice. But I try to stick to .deb if at all possible.
[16:01] <Roasted> anyway, thanks for your time and insight ikonia
[16:01] <ikonia> welcome
[19:12] <tatan> hello?
[19:13] <tatan> hay alguien que me pueda ayudar?
[19:16] <tatan> resulta que paso algo muy curioso con la interfaz de gnome , en el momento que me dispuse a instalar cairo-dock los iconos de network-manager y wicd  se bajan del paner generico  , ahora cuendo mato el proceso de cairo-dock los iconos desaparecen O.O ¿que puede ser?
[19:16] <BluesKaj> !es | tatan
[19:19] <tatan> thanks , I switch to the correct channel
[19:25] <tatan> sorry , i noob in the irssi interface XD  i  begin to get familiar with the program
[19:26] <tatan> joined #ubuntu+1
[19:27] <tatan> ok gracias
[19:47] <dupondje> Evening :)
[19:47] <dupondje> I'm missing icons of Terminal for example. Any idea whats wrong ?
[19:49] <Ian_Corne> dupondje: yes
[19:49] <Ian_Corne> you need to installk gnome-icon-theme-full
[19:49] <Ian_Corne> s/allk/all/
[19:51] <dupondje> now this looks better !
[19:51] <dupondje> thx
[19:52] <dupondje> Should be a recommend/depend but ok :-)
[20:33] <IdleOne> trying to do  dd if=oneiric-desktop-amd64.iso of=/dev/sdc   my question is blkid shows my usb device as sdc1 so do I use sdc1 or sdc?
[20:39] <charlie-tca> I have never used dd
[20:40] <IdleOne> trying /dev/sdc and will see what happens
[20:41] <CarlFK> sdc
[20:41] <CarlFK> you need to get the boot sector
[20:41] <IdleOne> CarlFK: so if I understand the output of blkid /dev/sdc1 represents the existing partion on /sdc
[20:42] <CarlFK> or whatever the booty stuff is on a usb stick given it doesn't really have sectors
[20:42] <CarlFK> /dev/sdc1 represents the existing partion on /sdc - that sounds right.  what's bikid?
[20:43] <IdleOne> try it, sudo blkid
[20:43] <IdleOne> L not i
[20:43] <CarlFK>        blkid - command-line utility to locate/print block device attributes - neat
[21:01] <TheBuntu> Oneiric alpha 1.... kubuntu version is the best alpha i have used.... so far i swear im useing a stable distro....even think there is maybe 15 to 20% preformence increase over 11.04
[21:02] <charlie-tca> That's because most of the changes that will happen in Oneiric are not in Kubuntu Alpha1 yet
[21:03]  * BluesKaj shudders
[21:09] <genii-around> Well, at least kernel 3.0.1 seems to be chugging along alright
[21:14] <BluesKaj> genii-around, desktop effects with nvidia still disabled , on 3.0.1 ?
[21:18] <genii-around> BluesKaj: The nvidia dkms rebuilt without prob
[21:21] <BluesKaj> genii-around, I reverted to natty when 3.0.0 kernel upgrade decided to break and uninstall the new nvidia driver , after booting in a few days ago
[21:59] <BUGabundo> evening folks
[22:01] <coz_> hey
[22:02] <Ian_Corne> Hello
[22:03] <BUGabundo> quiet, isn't it ?
[22:03] <Ian_Corne> Not many updates :(
[22:03] <Ian_Corne> and stuff is still broken
[22:03] <BUGabundo> Current status: 55 updates [+47], 34091 new [+53].
[22:03] <Ian_Corne> aha updates
[22:04] <Ian_Corne> finaly an empathy fix?
[22:05] <dupondje> whats broken ?
[22:05] <dupondje> everything seems to work quite fine here :D
[22:05] <dupondje> And I think even better accu time then Natty :)
[22:06] <BUGabundo> dupondje: what's NOT broken
[22:06] <dupondje> heh
[22:06] <dupondje> i'm quite lucky then
[22:06] <dupondje> cause everything just works here ?
[22:06] <dupondje> except Azerty on the login screen :p
[22:07] <Ian_Corne> dupondje: I'm being thrown back to unity 2D, launcher doesn't hide, apps maximize under the launcher,
[22:08] <dupondje> ah
[22:08] <dupondje> but i'm on Gnome3
[22:08] <dupondje> :)
[22:08] <BUGabundo> no composite
[22:08] <BUGabundo> no 3D
[22:09] <BUGabundo> no accelaration
[22:09] <BUGabundo> NM is broken
[22:09] <BUGabundo> (need to file that)
[22:09] <dupondje> NetworkManager works fine here
[22:09] <BUGabundo> applets are very reduces
[22:09] <BUGabundo> dupondje: try to start pidgin
[22:09] <BUGabundo> or turn off NM and back on again
[22:09] <BUGabundo> nothing will work
[22:09] <Ian_Corne> pidgin works now BUGabundo
[22:09] <Ian_Corne> it had an update
[22:10] <BUGabundo> humm
[22:10] <BUGabundo> will test on next boot
[22:10] <BUGabundo> didn't this morning
[22:10] <dupondje> pidgin works here fine
[22:11] <dupondje> and NetworkManager, well didn't found a thing that didn't work :P
[22:11] <dupondje> weird
[22:11] <dupondje> :)
[22:11] <BUGabundo> wifi will not work with NM off
[22:14] <dupondje> mm
[22:14] <dupondje> was that the case otherwise ? :)
[22:14] <dupondje> cause password and such are saved in NM no ?
[22:32] <Ian_Corne> I think they are saved in the gnome-keyring
[22:57] <arand> Hmm, dpkg thinks I'm out of space when installing the new kernel, when In fact I've got ~50% free and I can write more to disk fine...
[22:58] <arand>  unable to install new version of `/usr/src/linux-headers-3.0-1-generic/include/config/fb/aty/gx.h': No space left on device
[22:59] <maco> apt-get autoclean?
[22:59] <maco> is / separate from /home, maybe?
[23:00] <arand> Already done a clean, and as I mentioned, I actually ain't running out of space, dpkg or the kernel configuration seems to think so though...
[23:00] <arand> Nope, / and /home a two subvolumes on btrfs with a combined ~4G free
[23:01] <maco> only other thing i can think of is a very large file descriptor
[23:01] <maco> i remember deleting a 50GB ~/.xsession-errors that wasnt actually freed til i logged out
[23:02] <arand> And since i was able to just dd a 2G file in /tmp I think it somehow lies in the configuration process' interpretation of the space..
[23:02] <arand> I have rebooted in between
[23:17] <arand> Hmm, it seems the configuration of the linux package got stuck at a point where it was convinced I had to little space, and to unconvince it I had to install the older linux package and pull the upgrade again.. seems to be rolling now..
[23:22] <arand> Nope, too early, still this linux-headers-3.0-1-generic_3.0-1.2 that contrary to all other packages thinks that I', out of space..
[23:28] <Jake123> So, does anyone know if you can still download the classic desktop in 11.10, or is it gone for good?
[23:30] <micahg> Jake123: most of the apps have been upgraded, it's also deprecated upstream in favor of gnome-shell
[23:33] <Jake123> micahg: so... they're forcing Unity on everyone then?
[23:34] <micahg> Jake123: "upstream" as in GNOME
[23:34] <BUGabundo> Jake123: I'm using classic
[23:35] <Jake123> bugABUNDO: sO YOU CAN STILL INSTALL IT, IT JUST DOESN'T COME DEFAULT?
[23:35] <Jake123> sorry caps =[
[23:35] <arand> Jake123: Unity or any other DE you choose to install, I assume classic will be deprecated yes.
[23:36] <BUGabundo> Jake123: I just chose it at login
[23:37] <Jake123> deprecated... as in made obsolete? Cause that's the only way I've heard that word used.
[23:38] <arand> Are you people able to upgrade to the latest kernel btw, mine have gotten the false Idea that I'm out of space when I'm not.
[23:39] <arand> Jake123: The plan has been for classic to be dropped in oo, yes, what actually end up happening I don't know, but I haven't heard of any changes to that plan.