/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/06/20/#ubuntu-ops.txt

=== KB1JWQ is now known as Corey
bazhangnice13:35
jpdsQuite.13:37
bazhang<pRoV7x>  hi   bazhang   auto-greeter script13:38
jpdsbazhang: We could always flood it off.13:38
bazhangor leave it to l J l13:39
LjLi've had my bitcoins stolen :(13:39
LjLbecause i was silly13:39
jussi:(13:39
bazhanggrand theft bitcoin!13:40
PiciI wonder if we should update !grub2 now that 8.04 is the only supported release to not come with it by default.14:14
ikoniamaybe do it on EOL for 8.04 ?14:15
ikoniawell, it is eol on the desktop isn't it ?14:15
LjLi wonder if i should switch from LILO14:15
ikonialilo is good, I've no problem keeping it14:15
ikonianot good for 64bit though14:15
LjLwell it's only on my server14:15
ikoniayou're using it on a 64bit box ?14:16
LjLno14:16
ikoniaah14:16
bazhanggoliath is the one who did the f-bomb then quit14:47
PiciYes14:47
ikoniayes14:47
PiciLjL forwared them here.14:47
ikoniahe appears to have been missed by ljl's forward14:48
ikoniaahhh joined without cloak14:48
ikoniathen cloaked14:48
bazhangforewarned is foresomethinged14:48
ikoniaasked him to join the channel14:48
ikonia(in pm)14:48
Goliathikonia: hey14:58
LjLGoliath: you were directed here because it's not really acceptable to say "fuck ubuntu" and then leave (or for that matter, to say it without subsequently leaving). #ubuntu has a language policy, and also it's not constructive to just throw an insult and go15:00
Goliathi got frustrated15:02
Goliathi wont join that channel again15:02
Goliaththe buntu community sucks15:03
Goliathreally15:03
LjLwell what can i say, if you don't want to rejoin then i guess there's little to discuss. i also don't know why you got frustrated, it isn't in the backlog anymore, however while #ubuntu often doesn't answer people's inquiries, there are a lot of people who do try15:04
Goliathyeah15:05
LjLGoliath: if you say you can avoid such outbursts in the future (either by not rejoining the channel in the first place, or however else) i'm fine with just removing the ban, though15:07
Goliathok15:08
LjLGoliath: ban removed15:10
ikoniaLjL: no, I put a nick on on too15:10
LjLi removed both15:10
ikoniasorry, only saw one go15:10
jpdsHmm.15:24
=== marienz_ is now known as marienz
PiciHi20:38
C4coloI'd rather talk about why talking about #ubuntu in #ubuntu is considered off-topic20:39
C4colothat's the curiosity of the day20:39
PiciYou mean talking about why 'mature conversation' is a bit of a misnomer because mature can mean different things in different contexts?20:40
oCeanC4colo: I think you understand20:40
C4colothat one was a joke20:40
oCeanand so?20:40
oCeanare you making some point here?20:41
PiciC4colo: So which part were you referring to?  I only caught the tail end of the conversation.20:41
C4coloI came in asking about a LUKS issue related to upgrading, someone brought up the specific vocabulary I chose to use and thereby started that specific conversational thread20:42
C4coloI further expressed my displeasure with that particular rule, however I did remain within the constraints imposed on me by the policies of the channel in order to do so20:43
oCeantrue, but when asked to stop the offtopic talk (C4colo: can you stop the offtopic discussion?) you continued that particular discussion20:44
C4coloI did stop the offtopic talk20:44
PiciC4colo: I wasn't aware that discussion of channel polcies was required.  As an extreme example, I don't ask the cop why there is a speed limit of 25 on an otherwise busy road.20:44
C4coloI have followed every request20:44
C4coloI dispute the claim that discussing the policies of a channel are off-topic in that channel20:45
C4colohow can discussing #ubuntu in a channel of the same name be considered off-topic?20:45
oCeansince 'tech support' is the topic, not the channel itself20:45
C4colonotice once an alternate venue was proposed I complied with that request20:45
LjLC4colo: it can and it is. if anything, *this* is the channel to discuss policies. #ubuntu is about technical support not policies.20:46
PiciLjL: (or #ubuntu-irc)20:46
C4coloneither was proposed as an alternative20:46
PiciC4colo: Thats because usually people listen to the policies and don't continue to ask about them.20:47
oCean<oCean> C4colo: the smalltalk goes in #ubuntu-offtopic, not here20:47
LjLi'm reviewing the logs, and it seems to me that you were directed here20:47
C4colook, be a good citizen, shut up and do what you are told, no discussion20:47
C4coloI was told to reclassify my on-topic discussion as off-topic20:48
LjLyou can discuss, just not in #ubuntu. perhaps you could have been told sooner to come here on in -offtopic or in -irc or something, but you were told eventually20:48
C4colothat is different than asking to move a specific discussion to a more apt venue20:48
PiciI only mean to express what we're used to seeing.  Sometimes discussion of policies results in them being changed.20:48
C4coloI will not take this on-topic discussion to -offtopic, that is an unreasonable request20:48
LjLit's unreasonable of you to think you're the one to decide what is considered "ontopic"20:49
C4coloI'm using simple logic20:49
C4coloif you can't follow simple logic then you surely should not be the one to decide20:49
LjLwell there is a precise definition, it's not a matter of logic20:49
LjLontopic in #ubuntu means Ubuntu technical support. period. that's not going to change.20:49
LjLanything else?20:49
C4coloare you serious?20:50
LjLdead serious20:50
C4coloso simply "your logic is invalid, moving on"20:51
LjLyes20:51
C4colo"if you just followed the policies then you wouldn't be wrong"20:51
LjLit's not that your logic is invalid actually, it's that it's not a matter of logic in the first place20:51
LjLit's a definition20:51
LjLso moving on, is there a specific policy aside from the one about what is ontopic in #ubuntu that you want to discuss?20:51
C4coloas soon as a better venue was provided I complied20:51
LjLfine, so now you're in the better venue, which policy would you like to discuss?20:52
C4colothe cursing policy20:52
C4coloit seems asinine20:52
IdleOnecommon sense does apply in most cases, sometimes a support discussion will go off-topic but it is still relevant. When that off-topic starts to turn into chat and no longer support then it needs to be moved to a more appropriate channel.20:52
LjLC4colo: elaborate please20:52
IdleOnethe no cursing policy will not change either20:52
C4coloIf you are not old enough to read a "dirty" word then you shouldn't be on IRC20:52
C4coloperiod.20:52
LjLdisagreed20:53
LjLperiod20:53
LjLif you want to put it that way20:53
C4coloso you are just imposing unreasonable rules to feel better about yourselves as ops in the #ubuntu channel?20:53
LjLyou're the one who's saying they're unreasonable, they seem pretty sane to most of us20:53
IdleOneagain you assume to know what "old enough" is and also that you are in a position to decide if I am old enough to want to se it.20:53
C4coloif you are not old enough to see it don't go on IRC please.20:53
C4colobecause people say dirty words on there20:53
LjLnot in #ubuntu, not while we're watching20:54
IdleOneif you are not old enough to follow our rules then perhaps you need to disconnect from irc20:54
C4coloit just happened20:54
C4coloI said it20:54
C4coloyou must not have been watching20:54
LjLthis discussion isn't being constructive20:54
C4colothen don't have it with me20:54
C4coloit is IRC20:54
LjLmaybe you'd like to write to the IRC Council or the Community Council with your perplexities20:54
C4coloand you have @ by your name20:54
LjLi think i'm done here20:54
LjLpart if there is nothing else20:54
C4coloI was invited here so you can say "YOu are wrong, write a committee or something" and then demand I leave?20:55
CoreyC4colo: Enough.  You've had the policy explained to you, you've been given an appeals mechanism.20:56
LjLif you have nothing more constructive than "kids shouldn't be on irc" to say, then yes20:56
oCean!appeal > C4colo20:56
ubottuC4colo, please see my private message20:56
C4coloall that has happened is that I have been demanded to comply with various requests20:56
IdleOnecorrect20:57
C4colono substantive action has transpired as a result of my compliance20:57
IdleOnealso correct20:57
LjLwhat action were you expecting?20:57
C4coloa discussion20:57
C4coloand one that doesn't start twice with "but nothing will change"20:57
IdleOnedid you think we would say "HE IS RIGHT" and change the rules.?20:57
LjLi'd have a discussion, if it weren't one that starts with "your policies are asinine and kids shouldn't be on irc"20:58
LjLour policies are mostly ok, and kids can be on irc as a matter of fact, and they are20:58
LjLso unless you've got something of more substance, we can end it here20:58
C4colono, but starting the conversation with that is fairly counter-productive and indicative of a non-open discussion20:58
C4colokids shouldn't be on IRC20:58
C4colonot without their parent's permission20:58
charlie-tcaso, as an old man, why should I be subjected to your cussing?20:59
C4coloit is #ubuntu's job to parent?20:59
LjL#ubuntu being a family friendly channel, yes, in a way it is.20:59
C4coloif you don't  want to be exposed to things you may be uncomfortable with, on't go out in public20:59
IdleOneC4colo: is that your only argument?20:59
LjLC4colo: if you want to be able to say whatever you want, go somewhere where there is no police or ops20:59
IdleOneif you don't like it leave?20:59
LjLIdleOne: hey20:59
LjLIdleOne: it's a good argument20:59
Pici(There are channels on freenode like that, but they aren't Ubuntu channels)20:59
IdleOneC4colo: if YOU don't like it, leave.21:00
LjLi agree with it actually21:00
C4coloMy real issue is with being bossed around by policy and having that conversation unnecessarily prolonged by ops who are on a power-tip or something21:00
LjLah sorry21:00
C4coloI was seriously fine with not cursing once it was pointed out21:00
C4coloyour channel, your rules, whatever21:00
LjLit's true, we're unnecessarily prolonging this here21:00
LjLbye, thanks for the feedback :)21:00
C4colobut the way it was handled was upsetting21:00
C4colowhy was everyone prolonging the conversation if they wanted it to go away?21:00
C4coloI was only responding after the first joke I made21:00
C4coloand yet I was attacked21:01
CoreyC4colo: Let me see if I can simplify this some.21:01
CoreyWe have a language policy in #ubuntu.  Please abide by it.21:01
C4colofor being "off topic" when responding to ops and other participants21:01
CoreyWas there anything else?21:01
C4colo(please indicate one instance of me not abiding by your language policy once I was reminded of it)21:01
C4coloand yes, what I just said above21:02
LjLC4colo: uhm, if your request here is to be unbanned, you can probably be unbanned, as long as you agree to follow the language policy whether or not you agree with it in principle21:02
C4coloI was attacked for being off-topic when the ops and other users in the channel were the ones prolonging the conversation21:02
C4coloI didn't know I was banned, I haven't done anything ban-worthy, so whatever21:03
PiciC4colo: I thought *you* wanted to continue the conversation, thats why I asked you here.  My mistake apparently.21:03
PiciIt was a mute.21:03
C4colothat's fun too21:03
C4colobut, seriously, I was just joking around about a policy that seems excessive and probably unenforcible21:04
C4coloit was in response to a comment made in the channel too21:04
LjLC4colo: ok, understood21:04
LjLC4colo: do you want your mute removed and agree to follow the policies?21:04
C4coloI have done nothing mute-worthy21:04
LjLC4colo: do you want your mute removed and agree to follow the policies?21:05
C4coloif you choose to remove it that is your choice21:05
C4coloI don't care really21:05
LjLok, in that case, see you around21:05
C4coloI don't see the policy where you are required to abuse people coming here for help21:07
C4colodid I miss that one?21:07
IdleOneC4colo: I don't see any abuse towards you from anyone21:07
IdleOneah, there it is21:07
Coreyaurorax was just doing that in ##linux.23:24
LjLCorey: yeah, that's why i opped up23:28
CoreyLjL: Yeah, it just became a network problem.23:28

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