[03:07] <_marx_> can you say anything except Gnome? [03:07] <_marx_> maybe it is compiz and unity [03:08] <_marx_> but this machine was stable prior to 11.04 [03:08] <_marx_> can you say debian unstable [03:08] <_marx_> probably where i'm going; it is where i came from before ubuntu [03:10] <_marx_> i can use ubuntu and lxde or maybe even fvwm... [03:10] <_marx_> one of my despised catch phrases is "going forward" [03:11] <_marx_> going forward i do not see ubuntu being new user friendly [03:12] <_marx_> going forward i do not see ubuntu going forward [03:13] <_marx_> regression regression regurgitation [03:13] <_marx_> running debian unstable i expect crap [03:13] _marx_: i usually try kernels in both directions [03:14] <_marx_> way more than just a kernel version or two [03:15] yeah? [03:15] if the kernel from 10.10 was working well, try that one [03:15] that will rule out the kernel version [03:16] i mean, you dont have to like unity :) [03:16] <_marx_> i don't like it and realize i have choices; fvwm looks good [03:18] <_marx_> buttons on the wrong side was the first sign [03:18] <_marx_> if i wanted a freaking mac i'd go steal one; sure can't afford to buy one [03:19] ubuntustudio is moving to XFCE [03:20] and i think thats where im heading too [03:20] personally, i dont like gnome3 either [03:20] <_marx_> what i'm seeing of gnome i don't much like [03:20] <_marx_> ah [03:20] i think its great ubuntu has their own thing [03:21] i was a little sad to see just how similar unity and gnome3 are [03:21] but still, i think its great [03:21] im just not the target user for unity, and im OK with that [03:21] <_marx_> which i don't get how canonical will ever make any money on [03:22] <_marx_> flush corporate desktops down the drain? [03:23] eh.. i think its a good move in the direction of mass appeal [03:24] <_marx_> well i need to see virgin computer users opinion on that [03:25] <_marx_> would you want to roll out 100 desktops at your local ymca of unity? [03:26] <_marx_> poor sentence structure, miss price would make me write a better one on the blackboard [03:30] <_marx_> i didn't lose anything i was working on during that last freeze [03:32] <_marx_> if one is going to have freezes.... [03:32] well, i think its a good effort [03:32] i dont have a better solution [03:32] <_marx_> on common generic hardware [03:33] i mean, would you want to roll out a bunch of machine with gnome on them? [03:33] thats no better for the issue that ubuntu is addressing [03:33] does that issue need to be addressed?... thats another question [03:33] is it right? [03:33] probably not yet [03:33] but again, i think its a nice effort [03:34] <_marx_> sure ubuntu 10.04 suse, not opensuse, redhat, not fedora [03:34] <_marx_> centos [03:34] for what? [03:34] <_marx_> nice boring functional working desktops [03:34] the vigin user? [03:35] <_marx_> corportate [03:35] right, but i dont think unity is a corporate push [03:35] and thats probably OK [03:35] the IT guy can customize those with whatever works [03:36] <_marx_> k, but canonical is in that business too [03:37] <_marx_> it's worse than 6.06 [03:42] <_marx_> i don't have the testing hardware i used to have [03:46] <_marx_> five years ubuntu has been the best to hand out to windows users [03:46] <_marx_> i would not DARE do that with 11.04 [03:49] <_marx_> well i'll make my own and stop bitchin' === milleja464 is now known as milleja46 [16:55] can we stop using words like "virgin" for novice or new users and words like "bitchin" for complaining about stuff - it's not really polite or proper terms and it presents terms of exclusions [16:55] thanks :-) [16:56] * milleja46 feels like he missed something o_O [16:56] and besides that it's a bit offensive... [16:57] milleja46, I was just reading the scrollback [16:57] akgraner: ahh [16:57] * milleja46 uses ubuntu in a vm right now :D [16:58] milleja46, I have kubuntu in a VM but I use 11.04 with Unity as my regular machine [16:58] it took a little getting used to but now I am lost without it [16:58] akgraner: i kinda like the unity sidebar [16:59] I think but 12.04 (which is the next LTS) all the kinks with unity should be worked and the polish will be fully there [16:59] I was against Unity at first now I love it [17:00] but i still use windows 7 because there are a few games i use windows for just because the anti cheat system prevents me from using wine to play on ubuntu :( [17:01] but that unity stuff looks pretty great [17:01] I'll be reviewing a zorin PC that duel boots windows 7 and Linux from the start [17:01] it's aimed at introducing windows users to linux [17:02] but as it stands i'm migrating to virtual box right now because of the fact vmware messed up with mageia [17:02] ahhh [17:02] so i'm reinstalling ubuntu onto virtual box [17:03] have fun... I need to finish a couple of articles so I'll be back in a bit...:-) [17:03] hmm, should i install the Fludendo stuff that it talks about in the install process?(vmware didn't show me the install process and i don't remember that last time i truly ran the install process) [17:49] * milleja46 just finished reinstalling ubuntu :D [17:56] akgraner: you'll need to re-announce that when marx comes back [17:56] seems like that might be *if* marx comes back :/ [17:56] i cant believe how strong the opinions are about unity [17:57] i mean, its not for me, but ubuntu is making its own DE... in house [17:57] how awesome is that? [17:57] they are very strong for for Unity and GNOME3 [17:57] neither are for me actually [17:57] holstein: i actually like it, i used ubuntu back when it didn't have this and i like it, but that's why there are all the different choices [17:57] I thought I would hate Unity but now I love them...but I am a die hard GUI users [17:58] for those who aren't I can see how they would want to role back to a different desktop [17:58] as long as the customizations that are planned make it in soon, i think its too awesome :) [17:58] *unity ^ [17:58] and therein is the beauty of Linux [17:58] exactly [17:59] * milleja46 heads to install openshot [17:59] milleja46: i just started using kden [17:59] i didnt try openshot, but pitivi was nice [18:00] i broke pitivi with a PPA, and decided to try kden [18:00] milleja46: have you used kden? [18:00] holstein: i've been looking at openshot just because of the fact i happened accross it when searching for a free video editor, and lightworks is too confusing [18:00] im interested in a first hand opinion of kden/openshot [18:01] never used kden [18:01] i'll have to try openshot [18:02] but openshot was supposed to have a windows version coming out which i have no idea what happened to it, so thank goodness for vm's [18:03] holstein: but if you're looking for a really advanced software i'd say lightworks don't know if the linux version has come out yet though [18:03] i actually got some work done with kden, so i think im going to roll with it [18:04] followed that one before it went free waiting for it to come free then realized it was too confusing, so openshot sounds like the next best thing [18:04] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKi69e5jeXA [18:08] wow, openshot sure has alot better effects than wmm [18:12] vlc also has a video editor: VLMC [18:15] milleja46: i just heard about that the other day [18:15] how is it? [18:16] holstein: never truly messed around with it either so far it is alpha at best [18:17] but it does work, just not on windows as well because of some features needing some work haven't tried on ubuntu yet [18:20] which reminds me i should install both [19:08] well finally found how to install vlmc on ubuntu :D [21:30] * milleja46 is now on his ubuntu vm ;D though aim refuses to work in it [21:40] anyone know how to sign into aim on ubuntu? pidgin and empathy both don't work... [21:56] whats aim? [21:57] * Tracy_P laughs. [21:57] holstein: aol instant messenger [21:57] how about the windows one in WINE? [21:59] holstein: wow...didn't think of that, though i'm really starting to get mad at miranda-im right about now XD [22:00] * milleja46 would actually like to be able to use pidgin or empathy doesn't understand no matter if he's on windows or ubuntu that pidgin doesn't allow him to sign in [22:01] Perhaps the AIM protocol has changed again and the client hasn't been updated. [22:01] Tracy_P: that's almost what i was starting to think [22:01] because it works fine in the client i use when i'm actually using windows and not in the vm for my ubuntu install [22:02] i would probably try to use http://cybione.org/~irssi-xmpp/ [22:02] since im in irssi [22:04] Seems my Windows Pidgin version doesn't know, or I've forgotten my password. [22:04] pidgin doesn't like AIM on windows or ubuntu from what i've seen from me trying it myself [22:04] you cant just do AIM in the browser somewhere? [22:05] milleja46: cant you just talk those 2 remaining AOL contacts into moving ;) [22:06] holstein: funny thing is i can't login to the browser doesn't allow me to auth in that....which is very odd, i keep putting in the right crendentials and i've checked on the computer used to create the account ;) [22:06] holstein: well they might be in google talk or something like that but neither are on for me to ask [22:06] milleja46: if you cant do it in the browser, then i bet its the creds, not the client [22:07] milleja46: do you really have 2 contacts left over there?.. i was totally kidding [22:08] apparently I don't have an AIM account anymore. [22:08] Tracy_P: congrats :) [22:08] i thought you were talking about something else... i just assumed it was shut down [22:09] holstein: well it works sign in on AOL on the host computer i used to make it and in a windows only client, but other clients and the aim.com website both don't allow me to sign in [22:10] holstein: funny thing is only 2 people is actually what it is, since they are the only 2 people i ever talk to frequently on anything other than irc [22:11] That's how I would end up talking to my mom and dad if I were to talk to them online. I just pick up the cell phone and call them instead. [22:13] i really wish i knew what their google talk accounts were....aim is so annoying now [22:21] that's about the ONLY problem besides not being able to play some games(anti cheat system the company uses prevents it) i have with ubuntu [22:22] yeah... im on the fence though... maybe *not* supporting AOL is a feature ;) [22:24] * milleja46 plugs his ears too much bass from the car gooing by X( [22:26] i just wish that sidebar with the applications would be hidden away even when you don't mouse over the icon or don't have a application open on screen [22:29] yeah... seems a little mystical what initiates the hiding [22:29] more customization options are on the way though [22:29] <_marx_> i liked never hiding better [22:29] <_marx_> especially if you have the close button on the left [22:30] _marx_: i'd rather have it there, but choose when it shows, especially only if you mouse over/click the button in the top left corner [22:35] though ubuntu seems to run really nicely in virtualbox :D [22:35] its nice and light i find [22:35] unity seems nice and light [22:36] well and it also looks better than the look before this version [22:36] in general, buntu seems to be slimming down a bit instead of bloating up [22:36] which is nice [22:36] milleja46: you find it more polished looking? [22:36] oh...yea [22:36] cool [22:37] i much perfer this look :D [22:39] i'm acutally looking somewhere in the future buying a cheap laptop and wiping it then put ubuntu on it, then get a keyboard and some way to connect it to internet and make a home server out of it and put ubuntu server on it [22:40] you dont *need* a laptop for a server [22:40] i run a headless box in the crawl space here at home [22:41] laptop hardware is generally quiet though [22:41] holstein: i typed that wrong....i meant for that part to say a unused desktop box [22:41] well, keep an eye out though [22:41] i had a laptop with a broken screen [22:41] ran that as a server for a while [22:42] handy really, and thats about all thats left to do with a machine like thta [22:42] that* [22:42] its not worth replacing the screen [22:42] i have two desktop boxes both unused but no keyboard(accidentally gave that to goodwill) or way to connect either to internet [22:43] one is a 98 box and the other a xp box [22:43] cool [22:43] that XP should have some pep to it [22:43] one i will use for a server if i ever do get the nesscary parts [22:43] i have a couple P4's [22:43] a 2.2? something like that [22:43] holstein: even with a crappy celeron processor? [22:43] im replacing that with a 3.2 or something like that [22:43] <_marx_> p4 dell dem 3000 in use here [22:43] (those celerons performed horribly with XP) [22:43] milleja46: sure [22:43] <_marx_> 500M ram wow ;) [22:44] its a server box [22:44] my last server was a P3 900 mhz with 512 ram [22:44] worked well [22:44] for me, the network speed at my house breaks down way before whatever box im running [22:45] it'll be nice to have that faster P4 though [22:45] i think the XP one has 1gb of ram, might add more to it [22:45] milleja46: that'll be really nice [22:45] if i figure out what the ram is [22:45] <_marx_> mine maxes at 2g just have bothered to look for more [22:46] * milleja46 is only 16 and already has this figured out and hopefully a home server will make my mom less needing of me to be tech support :P [22:46] ive got 2gb's ready for the newer server :) [22:48] (just because i go to a school where i'm in the IT academy i suddenly become tech support in my family) [22:48] well, it might just end up being another box that she needs help with :/ [22:49] holstein: yea but at least she'll be able to print wirelessly [22:49] and i can set up a quassel core of my own, and a irc bot for a channel i plan on running soon as i can set up a server :P [22:50] having a CLI only box has really helped me learn [22:50] (and i want to use it to host some dev stuff i plan on doing) === Mootbot-UK_ is now known as Mootbot-UK [22:50] * milleja46 has only one thing he can't stand about irc and it's netsplit :P [22:51] eh... if it were AIM, you'd just get dropped ;p [22:51] holstein: yea true, i'm glad the two times i've seen it, i've been on the side that stays on :D [22:52] bunch of folks just left another channel [22:52] they think they are the ones that stayed [22:53] usually, if i wait around long enough, my bots come back from split [22:53] well i see it on another channel i'm on wonder if it happened on #blender or #mageia [22:53] <_marx_> milleja46: google up the specs and sometimes local shops have older used memory [22:53] <_marx_> like for the xp box [22:53] yup, theres a nice goodwill here and in charlotte [22:54] stacks of memory for $2-$8 [22:54] yea i accidently the keyboards i'm hopefully gonna buy a $7 one i saw at walmart [22:54] <_marx_> lxde runs okay on 512M ram [22:54] if you're looking in the right trash pile, you'll find a keyboard [22:54] what is the minimal amount ubuntu server requires to run anyway? [22:55] i took 3 off to the goodwill the other day [22:55] milleja46: something like 64? [22:55] something low [22:55] i have a CLI instance in Vbox with 128 [22:55] very useable [22:55] dang i wouldn't think that, i actually had it running in a vm the other day but accidentally deleted it [22:56] you want 10.04 for the server too [22:56] the LTS [22:56] nothing in the newer versions that you'll really need/want [22:57] holstein: well eventually when i learn more python i plan on using it as a game server :P [22:57] as well* [22:57] still, you're network will be the bottleneck [22:58] * milleja46 will hopefully move after HS and be able to use a better ISP windstream stinks [22:59] <_marx_> hehe, yep i've used their dsl a few times [22:59] still, it would have to be some kind of network to outpace something with a gig of ram [22:59] and a normal hard drive [23:00] you'd probably be better served on a server with a commercial hard drive rather than memory [23:00] well, both ideally :) [23:00] the gig i will add onto, and see if there's a way to put another hdd in to extend it [23:03] bighmknh [23:05] ^that's what i get for leaving my laptop alone when my sis is around the house during the summer -_- [23:25] <_marx_> he, sister, mine was outnumbered 3:1