[03:07] <_marx_> can you say anything except Gnome?
[03:07] <_marx_> maybe it is compiz and unity
[03:08] <_marx_> but this machine was stable prior to 11.04
[03:08] <_marx_> can you say debian unstable
[03:08] <_marx_> probably where i'm going; it is where i came from before ubuntu
[03:10] <_marx_> i can use ubuntu and lxde or maybe even fvwm...
[03:10] <_marx_> one of my despised catch phrases is "going forward"
[03:11] <_marx_> going forward i do not see ubuntu being new user friendly
[03:12] <_marx_> going forward i do not see ubuntu going forward
[03:13] <_marx_> regression regression regurgitation
[03:13] <_marx_> running debian unstable i expect crap
[03:13] <holstein> _marx_: i usually try kernels in both directions
[03:14] <_marx_> way more than just a kernel version or two
[03:15] <holstein> yeah?
[03:15] <holstein> if the kernel from 10.10 was working well, try that one
[03:15] <holstein> that will rule out the kernel version
[03:16] <holstein> i mean, you dont have to like unity :)
[03:16] <_marx_> i don't like it and realize i have choices; fvwm looks good
[03:18] <_marx_> buttons on the wrong side was the first sign
[03:18] <_marx_> if i wanted a freaking mac i'd go steal one; sure can't afford to buy one
[03:19] <holstein> ubuntustudio is moving to XFCE
[03:20] <holstein> and i think thats where im heading too
[03:20] <holstein> personally, i dont like gnome3 either
[03:20] <_marx_> what i'm seeing of gnome i don't much like
[03:20] <_marx_> ah
[03:20] <holstein> i think its great ubuntu has their own thing
[03:21] <holstein> i was a little sad to see just how similar unity and gnome3 are
[03:21] <holstein> but still, i think its great
[03:21] <holstein> im just not the target user for unity, and im OK with that
[03:21] <_marx_> which i don't get how canonical will ever make any money on
[03:22] <_marx_> flush corporate desktops down the drain?
[03:23] <holstein> eh.. i think its a good move in the direction of mass appeal
[03:24] <_marx_> well i need to see virgin computer users opinion on that
[03:25] <_marx_> would you want to roll out 100 desktops at your local ymca of unity?
[03:26] <_marx_> poor sentence structure, miss price would make me write a better one on the blackboard
[03:30] <_marx_> i didn't lose anything i was working on during that last freeze
[03:32] <_marx_> if one is going to have freezes....
[03:32] <holstein> well, i think its a good effort
[03:32] <holstein> i dont have a better solution
[03:32] <_marx_> on common generic hardware
[03:33] <holstein> i mean, would you want to roll out a bunch of machine with gnome on them?
[03:33] <holstein> thats no better for the issue that ubuntu is addressing
[03:33] <holstein> does that issue need to be addressed?... thats another question
[03:33] <holstein> is it right?
[03:33] <holstein> probably not yet
[03:33] <holstein> but again, i think its a nice effort
[03:34] <_marx_> sure ubuntu 10.04 suse, not opensuse, redhat, not fedora
[03:34] <_marx_> centos
[03:34] <holstein> for what?
[03:34] <_marx_> nice boring functional working desktops
[03:34] <holstein> the vigin user?
[03:35] <_marx_> corportate
[03:35] <holstein> right, but i dont think unity is a corporate push
[03:35] <holstein> and thats probably OK
[03:35] <holstein> the IT guy can customize those with whatever works
[03:36] <_marx_> k, but canonical is in that business too
[03:37] <_marx_> it's worse than 6.06
[03:42] <_marx_> i don't have the testing hardware i used to have
[03:46] <_marx_> five years ubuntu has been the best to hand out to windows users
[03:46] <_marx_> i would not DARE do that with 11.04
[03:49] <_marx_> well i'll make my own and stop bitchin'
[16:55] <akgraner> can we stop using words like "virgin" for novice or new users and words like "bitchin" for complaining about stuff - it's not really polite or proper terms and it presents terms of exclusions
[16:55] <akgraner> thanks :-)
[16:56]  * milleja46 feels like he missed something o_O
[16:56] <akgraner> and besides that it's a bit offensive...
[16:57] <akgraner> milleja46, I was just reading the scrollback
[16:57] <milleja46> akgraner: ahh
[16:57]  * milleja46 uses ubuntu in a vm right now :D
[16:58] <akgraner> milleja46, I have kubuntu in a VM but I use 11.04 with Unity as my regular machine
[16:58] <akgraner> it took a little getting used to but now I am lost without it
[16:58] <milleja46> akgraner: i kinda like the unity sidebar
[16:59] <akgraner> I think but 12.04 (which is the next LTS) all the kinks with unity should be worked and the polish will be fully there
[16:59] <akgraner> I was against Unity at first now I love it
[17:00] <milleja46> but i still use windows 7 because there are a few games i use windows for just because the anti cheat system prevents me from using wine to play on ubuntu :(
[17:01] <milleja46> but that unity stuff looks pretty great
[17:01] <akgraner> I'll be reviewing a zorin PC that duel boots windows 7 and Linux from the start
[17:01] <akgraner> it's aimed at introducing windows users to linux
[17:02] <milleja46> but as it stands i'm migrating to virtual box right now because of the fact vmware messed up with mageia
[17:02] <akgraner> ahhh
[17:02] <milleja46> so i'm reinstalling ubuntu onto virtual box
[17:03] <akgraner> have fun...   I need to finish a couple of articles so I'll be back in a bit...:-)
[17:03] <milleja46> hmm, should i install the Fludendo stuff that it talks about in the install process?(vmware didn't show me the install process and i don't remember that last time i truly ran the install process)
[17:49]  * milleja46 just finished reinstalling ubuntu :D
[17:56] <holstein> akgraner: you'll need to re-announce that when marx comes back
[17:56] <holstein> seems like that might be *if* marx comes back :/
[17:56] <holstein> i cant believe how strong the opinions are about unity
[17:57] <holstein> i mean, its not for me, but ubuntu is making its own DE... in house
[17:57] <holstein> how awesome is that?
[17:57] <akgraner> they are very strong for for Unity and GNOME3
[17:57] <holstein> neither are for me actually
[17:57] <milleja46> holstein: i actually like it, i used ubuntu back when it didn't have this and i like it, but that's why there are all the different choices
[17:57] <akgraner> I thought I would hate Unity but now I love them...but I am a die hard GUI users
[17:58] <akgraner> for those who aren't I can see how they would want to role back to a different desktop
[17:58] <holstein> as long as the customizations that are planned make it in soon, i think its too awesome :)
[17:58] <holstein> *unity ^
[17:58] <akgraner> and therein is the beauty of Linux
[17:58] <holstein> exactly
[17:59]  * milleja46 heads to install openshot
[17:59] <holstein> milleja46: i just started using kden
[17:59] <holstein> i didnt try openshot, but pitivi was nice
[18:00] <holstein> i broke pitivi with a PPA, and decided to try kden
[18:00] <holstein> milleja46: have you used kden?
[18:00] <milleja46> holstein: i've been looking at openshot just because of the fact i happened accross it when searching for a free video editor, and lightworks is too confusing
[18:00] <holstein> im interested in a first hand opinion of kden/openshot
[18:01] <milleja46> never used kden
[18:01] <holstein> i'll have to try openshot
[18:02] <milleja46> but openshot was supposed to have a windows version coming out which i have no idea what happened to it, so thank goodness for vm's
[18:03] <milleja46> holstein: but if you're looking for a really advanced software i'd say lightworks don't know if the linux version has come out yet though
[18:03] <holstein> i actually got some work done with kden, so i think im going to roll with it
[18:04] <milleja46> followed that one before it went free waiting for it to come free then realized it was too confusing, so openshot sounds like the next best thing
[18:04] <holstein> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKi69e5jeXA
[18:08] <milleja46> wow, openshot sure has alot better effects than wmm
[18:12] <milleja46> vlc also has a video editor: VLMC
[18:15] <holstein> milleja46: i just heard about that the other day
[18:15] <holstein> how is it?
[18:16] <milleja46> holstein: never truly messed around with it either so far it is alpha at best
[18:17] <milleja46> but it does work, just not on windows as well because of some features needing some work haven't tried on ubuntu yet
[18:20] <milleja46> which reminds me i should install both
[19:08] <milleja46> well finally found how to install vlmc on ubuntu :D
[21:30]  * milleja46 is now on his ubuntu vm ;D though aim refuses to work in it
[21:40] <milleja46> anyone know how to sign into aim on ubuntu? pidgin and empathy both don't work...
[21:56] <holstein> whats aim?
[21:57]  * Tracy_P laughs.
[21:57] <milleja46> holstein: aol instant messenger
[21:57] <holstein> how about the windows one in WINE?
[21:59] <milleja46> holstein: wow...didn't think of that, though i'm really starting to get mad at miranda-im right about now XD
[22:00]  * milleja46 would actually like to be able to use pidgin or empathy doesn't understand no matter if he's on windows or ubuntu that pidgin doesn't allow him to sign in
[22:01] <Tracy_P> Perhaps the AIM protocol has changed again and the client hasn't been updated.
[22:01] <milleja46> Tracy_P: that's almost what i was starting to think
[22:01] <milleja46> because it works fine in the client i use when i'm actually using windows and not in the vm for my ubuntu install
[22:02] <holstein> i would probably try to use http://cybione.org/~irssi-xmpp/
[22:02] <holstein> since im in irssi
[22:04] <Tracy_P> Seems my Windows Pidgin version doesn't know, or I've forgotten my password.
[22:04] <milleja46> pidgin doesn't like AIM on windows or ubuntu from what i've seen from me trying it myself
[22:04] <holstein> you cant just do AIM in the browser somewhere?
[22:05] <holstein> milleja46: cant you just talk those 2 remaining AOL contacts into moving ;)
[22:06] <milleja46> holstein: funny thing is i can't login to the browser doesn't allow me to auth in that....which is very odd, i keep putting in the right crendentials and i've checked on the computer used to create the account ;)
[22:06] <milleja46> holstein: well they might be in google talk or something like that but neither are on for me to ask
[22:06] <holstein> milleja46: if you cant do it in the browser, then i bet its the creds, not the client
[22:07] <holstein> milleja46: do you really have 2 contacts left over there?.. i was totally kidding
[22:08] <Tracy_P> apparently I don't have an AIM account anymore.
[22:08] <holstein> Tracy_P: congrats :)
[22:08] <holstein> i thought you were talking about something else... i just assumed it was shut down
[22:09] <milleja46> holstein: well it works sign in on AOL on the host computer i used to make it and in a windows only client, but other clients and the aim.com website both don't allow me to sign in
[22:10] <milleja46> holstein: funny thing is only 2 people is actually what it is, since they are the only 2 people i ever talk to frequently on anything other than irc
[22:11] <Tracy_P> That's how I would end up talking to my mom and dad if I were to talk to them online. I just pick up the cell phone and call them instead.
[22:13] <milleja46> i really wish i knew what their google talk accounts were....aim is so annoying now
[22:21] <milleja46> that's about the ONLY problem besides not being able to play some games(anti cheat system the company uses prevents it) i have with ubuntu
[22:22] <holstein> yeah... im on the fence though... maybe *not* supporting AOL is a feature ;)
[22:24]  * milleja46 plugs his ears too much bass from the car gooing by X(
[22:26] <milleja46> i just wish that sidebar with the applications would be hidden away even when you don't mouse over the icon or don't have a application open on screen
[22:29] <holstein> yeah... seems a little mystical what initiates the hiding
[22:29] <holstein> more customization options are on the way though
[22:29] <_marx_> i liked never hiding better
[22:29] <_marx_> especially if you have the close button on the left
[22:30] <milleja46> _marx_: i'd rather have it there, but choose when it shows, especially only if you mouse over/click the button in the top left corner
[22:35] <milleja46> though ubuntu seems to run really nicely in virtualbox :D
[22:35] <holstein> its nice and light i find
[22:35] <holstein> unity seems nice and light
[22:36] <milleja46> well and it also looks better than the look before this version
[22:36] <holstein> in general, buntu seems to be slimming down a bit instead of bloating up
[22:36] <holstein> which is nice
[22:36] <holstein> milleja46: you find it more polished looking?
[22:36] <milleja46> oh...yea
[22:36] <holstein> cool
[22:37] <milleja46> i much perfer this look :D
[22:39] <milleja46> i'm acutally looking somewhere in the future buying a cheap laptop and wiping it then put ubuntu on it, then get a keyboard and some way to connect it to internet and make a home server out of it and put ubuntu server on it
[22:40] <holstein> you dont *need* a laptop for a server
[22:40] <holstein> i run a headless box in the crawl space here at home
[22:41] <holstein> laptop hardware is generally quiet though
[22:41] <milleja46> holstein: i typed that wrong....i meant for that part to say a unused desktop box
[22:41] <holstein> well, keep an eye out though
[22:41] <holstein> i had a laptop with a broken screen
[22:41] <holstein> ran that as a server for a while
[22:42] <holstein> handy really, and thats about all thats left to do with a machine like thta
[22:42] <holstein> that*
[22:42] <holstein> its not worth replacing the screen
[22:42] <milleja46> i have two desktop boxes both unused but no keyboard(accidentally gave that to goodwill) or way to connect either to internet
[22:43] <milleja46> one is a 98 box and the other a xp box
[22:43] <holstein> cool
[22:43] <holstein> that XP should have some pep to it
[22:43] <milleja46> one i will use for a server if i ever do get the nesscary parts
[22:43] <holstein> i have a couple P4's
[22:43] <holstein> a 2.2? something like that
[22:43] <milleja46> holstein: even with a crappy celeron processor?
[22:43] <holstein> im replacing that with a 3.2 or something like that
[22:43] <_marx_> p4 dell dem 3000 in use here
[22:43] <milleja46> (those celerons performed horribly with XP)
[22:43] <holstein> milleja46: sure
[22:43] <_marx_> 500M ram wow ;)
[22:44] <holstein> its a server box
[22:44] <holstein> my last server was a P3 900 mhz with 512 ram
[22:44] <holstein> worked well
[22:44] <holstein> for me, the network speed at my house breaks down way before whatever box im running
[22:45] <holstein> it'll be nice to have that faster P4 though
[22:45] <milleja46> i think the XP one has 1gb of ram, might add more to it
[22:45] <holstein> milleja46: that'll be really nice
[22:45] <milleja46> if i figure out what the ram is
[22:45] <_marx_> mine maxes at 2g just have bothered to look for more
[22:46]  * milleja46 is only 16 and already has this figured out and hopefully a home server will make my mom less needing of me to be tech support :P
[22:46] <holstein> ive got 2gb's ready for the newer server :)
[22:48] <milleja46> (just because i go to a school where i'm in the IT academy i suddenly become tech support in my family)
[22:48] <holstein> well, it might just end up being another box that she needs help with :/
[22:49] <milleja46> holstein: yea but at least she'll be able to print wirelessly
[22:49] <milleja46> and i can set up a quassel core of my own, and a irc bot for a channel i plan on running soon as i can set up a server :P
[22:50] <holstein> having a CLI only box has really helped me learn
[22:50] <milleja46> (and i want to use it to host some dev stuff i plan on doing)
[22:50]  * milleja46 has only one thing he can't stand about irc and it's netsplit :P
[22:51] <holstein> eh... if it were AIM, you'd just get dropped ;p
[22:51] <milleja46> holstein: yea true, i'm glad the two times i've seen it, i've been on the side that stays on :D
[22:52] <holstein> bunch of folks just left another channel
[22:52] <holstein> they think they are the ones that stayed
[22:53] <holstein> usually, if i wait around long enough, my bots come back from split
[22:53] <milleja46> well i see it on another channel i'm on wonder if it happened on #blender or #mageia
[22:53] <_marx_> milleja46: google up the specs and sometimes local shops have older used memory
[22:53] <_marx_> like for the xp box
[22:53] <holstein> yup, theres a nice goodwill here and in charlotte
[22:54] <holstein> stacks of memory for $2-$8
[22:54] <milleja46> yea i accidently the keyboards i'm hopefully gonna buy a $7 one i saw at walmart
[22:54] <_marx_> lxde runs okay on 512M ram
[22:54] <holstein> if you're looking in the right trash pile, you'll find a keyboard
[22:54] <milleja46> what is the minimal amount ubuntu server requires to run anyway?
[22:55] <holstein> i took 3 off to the goodwill the other day
[22:55] <holstein> milleja46: something like 64?
[22:55] <holstein> something low
[22:55] <holstein> i have a CLI instance in Vbox with 128
[22:55] <holstein> very useable
[22:55] <milleja46> dang i wouldn't think that, i actually had it running in a vm the other day but accidentally deleted it
[22:56] <holstein> you want 10.04 for the server too
[22:56] <holstein> the LTS
[22:56] <holstein> nothing in the newer versions that you'll really need/want
[22:57] <milleja46> holstein: well eventually when i learn more python i plan on using it as a game server :P
[22:57] <milleja46> as well*
[22:57] <holstein> still, you're network will be the bottleneck
[22:58]  * milleja46 will hopefully move after HS and be able to use a better ISP windstream stinks
[22:59] <_marx_> hehe, yep i've used their dsl a few times
[22:59] <holstein> still, it would have to be some kind of network to outpace something with a gig of ram
[22:59] <holstein> and a normal hard drive
[23:00] <holstein> you'd probably be better served on a server with a commercial hard drive rather than memory
[23:00] <holstein> well, both ideally :)
[23:00] <milleja46> the gig i will add onto, and see if there's a way to put another hdd in to extend it
[23:03] <milleja46> bighmknh
[23:05] <milleja46> ^that's what i get for leaving my laptop alone when my sis is around the house during the summer -_-
[23:25] <_marx_> he, sister, mine was outnumbered 3:1