[01:50] <snap-l> I can't believe there's a band that put out their music as 01.rar
[01:50] <snap-l> and each of the tracks is 01.mp3, 02.mp3, etc.
[01:51] <snap-l> Luckily they at least had the foresight to use id3 tags.
[01:54] <rick_h_> heh nice
[01:54] <rick_h_> how friendly of them
[01:54] <snap-l> Yeah
[01:55] <snap-l> First chance I get, that's coming off my drive
[01:55] <snap-l> Also noting that 640GB is likely not going to be enough for /media/music
[01:55] <snap-l> I'm already at 13%, and haven't really started ripping discs.
[01:55] <snap-l> /dev/sdb1            615319352  70835964 513226924  13% /mnt/music
[01:56] <greg-g> yay /mnt/! ;)
[01:56] <greg-g> sorry, had to
[01:56] <snap-l> Yeah, delete me once, shame on me
[01:56] <snap-l> delete me twice, I find you and play maracas with your nuts.
[01:57] <greg-g> delete you twice, never delete you no more?
[01:57] <snap-l> Delete me once. Delete me twice. I'll undelete at any price
[01:57] <greg-g> heh
[01:57] <snap-l> I need this data like i needed it then
[01:58] <snap-l> I'll alway say "backed up again... someday"
[11:49] <greg-g> g'morning
[11:58] <brousch> yessir
[12:29] <Wolfger> says who?
[12:39] <rick_h_> says me, party party
[12:41] <Wolfger> bah
[12:41] <Wolfger> they locked our thermostat and set the temp to "uncomfortably high". It's definitely not a good morning
[12:42] <rick_h_> ugh, I get that a lot here to
[12:42] <rick_h_> I have a themometer I show to my boss
[12:42] <rick_h_> "see, it's 80...now 80 is beach weather. I should just head to the beach"
[12:42] <Wolfger> Yeah, I threatened to turn the steel-toes in for sandals, and wear shorts
[12:43] <Wolfger> but of course nobody that I can complain to has any control over it...
[12:43] <Wolfger> the union guys are saying "work slower. It's too hot, and we don't want anybody getting a heart attack"
[12:44] <rick_h_> lol, awesome
[12:44] <Wolfger> The sad thing is, it's just the offices. The plant floor is still nice and cool.
[12:44] <Wolfger> so I may go for a walk with my laptop and not come back
[12:58] <snap-l> heh
[12:59] <snap-l> GOod morning, internet folks
[13:02] <greg-g> Wolfger: it took me 3 weeks of 80+ degrees in this office and complaining to various facilities/management/etc people to get our temperature fixed. Apparently, there is one thermostat on the 2nd floor (I'm on the 4th) that controls this entire wing
[13:11] <rick_h_> greg-g: gotta love that
[13:11] <rick_h_> our therm is in a conference room down the hall
[13:12] <rick_h_> well of course that small closed room is a totally different climate than the big cube farm we're in
[13:14] <greg-g> no kidding. We now have 5 desktops and 8 22" monitors in here, it can get warm if you let it :)
[13:15] <brousch> but don't you wear sandals, shorts, and no shirt to work?
[13:20] <greg-g> I wish
[13:20] <greg-g> for a while I was wearing sandals, but now my boss is back in town
[13:22] <Wolfger> darned bosses
[13:22] <greg-g> no kidding, right?
[13:27] <brousch> In this Flask app that I'm writing I use a list to keep some data that changes regularly. I that list the same across threads if i deploy to mod_wsgi? https://sourceforge.net/p/waznexserver/code/ci/4028742f72bea7570941752ee42beaaec721fb47/tree/main.py
[13:31] <snap-l> brousch: hey hey hey, no talking about real work when we're bitching about the weather.
[13:31] <brousch> well technically it's a side project, so it's fun
[13:31] <snap-l> Heh
[13:31] <snap-l> Also see that Dave got you using the new beta.
[13:31] <brousch> yeah, i like it
[13:32] <snap-l> Yeah, it's quite nice. Lots of good ideas in there.
[13:32] <brousch> i wish SF had private repos so i could host non OSS stuff there
[13:32] <snap-l> Not likely to happen any time soon
[13:32] <brousch> that's what he said too
[13:33] <brousch> i should go to a database backend instead of a list and eliminate any worry
[13:34] <snap-l> That would be my first recommendation
[13:37] <rick_h_> brousch: so when you deploy mod_wsgi, apache spins up several workers of your app
[13:37] <brousch> i think so
[13:37] <rick_h_> now, any requests that go the same worker that would be constant
[13:37] <rick_h_> but not across the apache workers
[13:37] <rick_h_> each of those is separate
[13:37] <brousch> damn
[13:37] <rick_h_> as apache spins up more instances to hanlde load, you'd end up with a bunch of different versions of that list
[13:38] <rick_h_> you need a persistant store, sqlite, memcache, etc
[13:38] <rick_h_> single points like that don't let you scale beyond a single process really
[13:38] <rick_h_> unless you want to get into the joys of interprocess communication
[13:39] <brousch> no. i want to keep it simple
[13:39] <snap-l> I seem to recall that the scoreboard might be useful for something like that
[13:39] <rick_h_> sqlite it is then
[13:39] <snap-l> but I may be remembering wrong
[13:39] <brousch> the scoreboard?
[13:39] <rick_h_> well, except that it doens't like multiple users at once without locking issues :/
[13:39] <snap-l> Bah, install PostgreSQL
[13:39] <snap-l> be a man
[13:39] <brousch> dreamhost frowns on that
[13:39] <rick_h_> heh
[13:39] <rick_h_> couchdb then? :)
[13:40] <brousch> obviously i need mongo for this
[13:40] <snap-l> now you have two problems
[13:40] <snap-l> now you have three problems
[13:40] <snap-l> (mongo counts for two problems)
[13:40] <rick_h_> hey, I like couch
[13:40] <snap-l> I like couch too
[13:40]  * Wolfger likes couches
[13:41] <brousch> time to dive into sqlalchemy
[13:41] <snap-l> Also loving the news that Dropbox unlocked everyone's accounts?
[13:41] <rick_h_> now would be a good time for a tutoria, if only there was one coming up :)
[13:41]  * rick_h_ goes back to work...too depressing to think about the world's security
[13:41] <snap-l> http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/06/21/045228/Dropbox-Password-Goof-Let-Any-Password-Work-For-4-Hours
[13:41] <snap-l> rick_h_: Sorry, man
[13:42] <snap-l> our podcasts might have been compromised
[13:42]  * snap-l doesn't keep anything in there, really
[13:43] <rick_h_> all my purchased books
[13:43] <rick_h_> scanned day care receipts
[13:43] <brousch> you mean my purchased books!
[13:43] <rick_h_> meh, could be worse I guess
[13:43] <snap-l> "Oh shit, they might access my coupons and my FUDGE books that I'm reading on the iPhone"
[13:43] <snap-l> And our logo / podcasts.
[13:43] <brousch> i'm afraid to ask what a FUDGE book is
[13:44] <snap-l> http://fudgerpg.com/
[13:44] <snap-l> Unfortunately their site is a hot mess, but it's a good system.
[13:44] <snap-l> http://fudgerpg.com/goodies/fudge-files.html
[13:45] <snap-l> Developed on the Internet back when folks used Usenet
[13:58] <Wolfger> Folks don't use Usenet anymore?
[14:02] <brousch> i use the net every day
[14:05] <snap-l> har har
[14:05] <snap-l> Not like they used to use Usenet
[14:05] <snap-l> it was the Internet's biggest forum
[14:05] <snap-l> I really miss Usenet some days
[14:06] <snap-l> then I look at other message boards and think "I'm glad I'm not paying for the privilege of having this piped directly into my house"
[14:07] <Wolfger> You get free broadband? :-o
[14:07] <Wolfger> or do you mean s/not paying/not paying extra/
[14:15] <snap-l> God, Windows with Bluetooth is shit
[14:15] <snap-l> Paying Extra, I mean
[14:19] <brousch> ubuntuone needs to jump on the dropbox security woes
[14:20] <snap-l> And get their own? :)
[14:22] <Wolfger> ouch
[14:33] <jrwren> greg-g: what building are you in that has such poor env controls?
[14:35] <snap-l> jrwren: It's a library building. :)
[14:35] <snap-l> Monitored by the finest in library sciences gestappo agents
[14:35] <jrwren> you realize there are over 100 libraries at umich?
[14:36] <snap-l> jrwren: You realize there's no such thing as library sciences gestappo agents
[14:36] <Wolfger> that's at least 98 too many
[14:37] <Wolfger> snap-l: how about a library sciences gazpacho?
[14:39] <greg-g> jrwren: shapiro library
[14:42] <snap-l> finding the Bitcoin story fascinating
[14:42] <Wolfger> Possibly of interest: Free (CC-BY) icons. http://www.fatcow.com/free-icons
[14:42] <snap-l> nice!
[14:43] <Wolfger> Also a free font
[14:48] <Wolfger> Thanks, snap-l. Now I have that song stuck in my head.
[14:51] <brousch> greg-g: you work in the UGLi?
[14:53] <greg-g> brousch: I work on the 4th floor of it, yep :)
[14:53] <Wolfger> getting all specific now...
[14:54] <snap-l> Are you facing the Atlantic or the Pacific
[14:54] <snap-l> ?
[14:55] <greg-g> pacific
[14:56] <Wolfger> what are your GPS coordinates?
[14:59] <_stink_> a/s/l?
[14:59] <rick_h_> oooh shiny: https://github.com/Pita/etherpad-lite/tree/182477af93eaab667a5c7db03888788ea0f47434
[15:03] <snap-l> Two months ago we migrated from MD5 hashing to freeBSD MD5 salted hashing.?The unsalted user accounts in the wild are ones that haven't been accessed in over 2 months and are considered idle. Once we are back up we will have implemented SHA-512 multi-iteration salted hashing and all users will be required to update to a new strong password.
[15:04] <snap-l> seriously, a site that is based on cryptographic strong hashes for currency was using MD5 salted passwords?
[15:14] <greg-g> who?
[15:14] <greg-g> bitcoin stuff?
[15:19] <snap-l> Yeah
[15:19] <greg-g> ok, pythonistas, why would one do "newlist = mylist[:]" instead of just "newlist = mylist" ?
[15:19] <snap-l> newlist = mylist would copy the pointer, so they'd be the same
[15:19] <snap-l> newlist = mylist[:] would copy the data
[15:20] <_stink_> shit, i didn't know that trick.
[15:20]  * snap-l verifies this
[15:20] <_stink_> i would just use deepcopy or something.
[15:21] <snap-l> In [1]: mylist = [1,2,3]
[15:21] <snap-l> In [2]: mylist
[15:21] <snap-l> Out[2]: [1, 2, 3]
[15:21] <snap-l> In [3]: newlist = mylist
[15:21] <snap-l> In [5]: newlist.append(4)
[15:21] <snap-l> In [6]: mylist
[15:21] <snap-l> Out[6]: [1, 2, 3, 4]
[15:21] <greg-g> wow, thanks!
[15:22] <brousch> wouldn't [:] copy the pointers to any objects in the list?
[15:22] <snap-l> In [10]: mylist = [1,2,3]
[15:22] <snap-l> In [11]: newlist = mylist[:]
[15:22] <snap-l> In [12]: newlist.append(4)
[15:22] <snap-l> In [13]: mylist
[15:22] <snap-l> Out[13]: [1, 2, 3]
[15:22] <brousch> so the objects in the new list would be same as in the old?
[15:22] <_stink_> i think [:] would just copy the first level.
[15:22] <brousch> yeah, that's what i was asking
[15:22] <_stink_> like if the list held dicts, the new list would hold the same dict pointers
[15:22] <snap-l> _stink_: ++
[15:23] <brousch> so deepcopy still has a purpose
[15:23] <_stink_> right
[15:23] <greg-g> (this was a question for someone who works at CC and saw it in some code but didn't know exactly what it was. He's the sysadmin)
[15:23] <_stink_> hey, learned something today.  and it's only 10:30.
[15:24] <snap-l> _stink_: time to go home, then
[15:24] <_stink_> damn right
[15:55] <rick_h_> I'm not sure you'd want to deepcopy by default
[15:55] <rick_h_> but yea, [:] is a new list from a slide
[15:55] <rick_h_> /slide/slice
[15:59] <snap-l> http://scoopertino.com/exposed-the-imac-disaster-that-almost-was/
[15:59] <snap-l> The letter from Sean Connery to Steve Jobs is priceless.
[16:01] <rick_h_> https://twitter.com/#!/Pinboard/status/83187358165499904 ouch
[16:02] <snap-l> Wow
[16:03] <snap-l> Man, FF5 already
[16:03] <rick_h_> looks like this coming back to bite him: https://twitter.com/#!/GDgeek/status/72671736897875970
[16:04] <snap-l> Apparently Firefox got Chrome version number envy
[16:04] <rick_h_> https://twitter.com/#!/DavidAndGoliath/status/72736927589208065
[16:04] <rick_h_> lol
[16:04] <snap-l> and I look forward to FF2112
[16:04] <rick_h_> yea, FF on the frazy
[16:04] <snap-l> Should drop any day now
[16:04] <rick_h_> I got an email from an automated check for the Bookie FF extension on FF6 already
[16:05] <snap-l> That DavidAndGoliath post doesn't make any damn sense
[16:05] <brousch> wtf. they were hosting 3 TB of data for $35/mo?
[16:06] <rick_h_> yes
[16:06] <rick_h_> a while back he was trying to find the absolute cheapest dedicated server hosting he could
[16:06] <brousch> do people pay for pinboard?
[16:06] <rick_h_> which I thought odd since he tries to keep a small number of boxes
[16:06] <rick_h_> yes
[16:06] <snap-l> Either they got the sweetest deal on the planet, or someone is hosting from their garage
[16:06] <snap-l> I did
[16:06] <brousch> i suggest a heapin pile of flaming poo bags on his porch
[16:06] <rick_h_> well that's where that comment is from, people warning him that at that price, dont' expect a lot
[16:07] <snap-l> I pay $24.95 for Linode, and I expect it to be there, damnit. :)
[16:07] <rick_h_> and now he's been down for 9 hours and trying to setup a new db server elsewhere to get back up
[16:07] <brousch> once people start actually paying you for your service you should really upgrade your hosting
[16:08] <snap-l> Or have a way to spin up S3 hosting quickly
[16:08] <rick_h_> he did an interview and prides himself on his 3 boxes repliating around them to each other
[16:08] <rick_h_> /s3/ec2
[16:08] <rick_h_> it
[16:08] <snap-l> Sorry
[16:08] <rick_h_> s the db server that's the thing
[16:08] <rick_h_> you can't just spin up db servers with TB of disk
[16:08] <krondor> anyone tried http://sparkleshare.org/ ?
[16:08] <snap-l> Though I wonder how one gets 3TB of bookmarks
[16:08] <snap-l> krondor: Not yet. Looks interesting
[16:09] <brousch> maybe it indexes like bookie?
[16:09] <rick_h_> he does have a 'storage' account you get for bookie like caching of content
[16:09] <rick_h_> but I've not figured out if it's just screenshots, or what
[16:09] <snap-l> Still, that's archive.org sizes
[16:11] <rick_h_> https://twitter.com/#!/curbednetwork/status/83171089429168128 ?!
[16:11] <snap-l> oh fuck
[16:12] <snap-l> I hope he spent some of that internet cash for a PO box
[16:12] <snap-l> because I'd hate for people to show up at his doorstep
[16:13] <rick_h_> https://twitter.com/#!/Pinboard/status/83050440689844224
[16:13] <rick_h_> so looks like worst case is a new install brought up from s3 backup
[16:13] <rick_h_> which might take a while based on size
[16:14] <snap-l> Someone needs to tell him about gzip. :)
[16:15] <rick_h_> http://thuktun.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/an-interview-with-maciej-ceglowski-of-pinboard/
[16:16] <rick_h_> down there has a server setup description
[16:20] <rick_h_> "Too much of the site now runs in screen;" lol
[16:27] <snap-l> I say that boring hosting is a feature because in times of crisis you find yourself in a very comfortable and familiar setup. It’s also easy to bring people in and explain what you’re doing. And you get the benefit of a lot of documented online experience with similar tools, by people smarter than you are who write about it well.
[16:28] <Milyardo> rick_h_: A Liberal Arts major that knows how to use screen? My God
[16:30] <snap-l> at least he used screen
[16:30] <snap-l> instead of wondering where the job went when he logged off. ;)
[16:30] <brousch> Milyardo: :P
[16:31] <Milyardo> Indeed, I'm actually Impressed
[16:31] <snap-l> What's funny is how many services we use that we think are bulletproof turn out to be scotch-taped together.
[16:32] <rick_h_> _stink_: jcastro snap-l you guys know of any local college I could look at taking something on machine learning? stuff like this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/azaraskin/5765482763/sizes/o/in/photostream/ ?
[16:32] <rick_h_> not seeing anything in oaklands course work
[16:33] <jcastro> man, no clue
[16:33] <rick_h_> actually very afraid to see cobol and visual basic
[16:33] <snap-l> rick_h_: Shit, that has math on it
[16:33] <rick_h_> yea, it does :/
[16:33] <snap-l> Oakland wouldn't have that. ;P
[16:33] <rick_h_> I used to be good at it
[16:33] <rick_h_> wondering if I could cobble enough together to grasp it
[16:33] <brousch> rick_h_: University of Michigan
[16:33] <jrwren> pinboard is $10??? WTF?
[16:33] <_stink_> rick_h_: there are faculty in Computer Engineering that do this stuff, but i'll have to look more about courses
[16:34] <_stink_> at WSU
[16:34] <_stink_> i mean
[16:34] <snap-l> Wayne might have something like that
[16:34] <rick_h_> _stink_: ok, wondering if one school is known more for higher tech stuff
[16:34] <snap-l> Hope College would have that
[16:34] <_stink_> hmm, not sure WSU is 'known' for anything
[16:34] <_stink_> bums?
[16:35] <snap-l> WSU is known for being the university for people who don't mind parking tickets and random shit getting stolen from their car
[16:35] <snap-l> Oakland is for people who don't mind not learning shit (at least in the Engineering department)
[16:35] <snap-l> EE department, rather
[16:35] <rick_h_> ok, well oakland is closest so started there
[16:35] <rick_h_> but yea, turning up empty
[16:36] <jcastro> I would guess U-M
[16:36] <gamerchick02> jwren, that $10 is totally worth it.
[16:36] <rick_h_> yea, that's a hike
[16:36] <snap-l> I have my Theory of Computing book if you want to borrow it, rick_h_
[16:36] <rick_h_> snap-l: yea, I'm debating. Learning on my own would take a lot of time I think because I'm rusty on the math side
[16:37] <rick_h_> wondering if a class would help make it faster worth the $$
[16:37] <brousch> snap-l: my future BIL is a cop for WSU :P
[16:37] <_stink_> rick_h_: http://classschedule.wayne.edu/sections_new.cfm?subj=CSC&course=5800&campus=NOSELECTION&instr=NOSELECTION
[16:37] <jrwren> rick_h_: look at OU's expert systems course.
[16:37] <rick_h_> geeze, crazy to think my stats class was that long ago
[16:37] <jrwren> or AI.
[16:37] <jrwren> Machine Learning is just an AI specialization
[16:37]  * _stink_ shrugs
[16:37] <snap-l> brousch: At least he'll have his work cut out for him. :)
[16:37] <_stink_> rick_h_: and other 5000-level courses on that site
[16:37] <_stink_> fwiw
[16:37] <rick_h_> _stink_: ooh, thanks
[16:38] <_stink_> np
[16:38] <rick_h_> that looks like a definite good start
[16:39] <snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/Theory-Computation-Languages-Automata-Complexity/dp/0805301437
[16:39] <snap-l> rick_h_: ^^
[16:39] <snap-l> Mine is so old, it's a hardcover. ;)
[16:40] <Milyardo> My Father had that book, started reading it once, never finished it.
[16:41] <snap-l> Shit, i should re-read this book
[16:41] <jrwren> http://www2.oakland.edu/gradstudy/pages_cfm/course_detail.cfm?cterm=201130&subj=CSE&numb=513
[16:41] <snap-l> Sits on my shelf like the Knuth books
[16:41] <rick_h_> jrwren: cool, thanks
[16:42] <jrwren> http://www2.oakland.edu/gradstudy/pages_cfm/course_detail.cfm?cterm=201130&subj=CSE&numb=581
[16:42] <rick_h_> I must have been in the undergrad class list
[16:42] <jrwren> snap-l: is brookshear any better than others/
[16:42] <snap-l> jrwren: It's what we used in my upper-level Comp-Sci classes
[16:42] <jrwren> snap-l: why are you lking to comp theory for machine learning.
[16:42] <jrwren> VERY diffrent fields.
[16:43] <jrwren> snap-l: yeah, we used a different text, but it is not the cononical.
[16:43] <jrwren> I think Chomsky's work is the more canonical text.
[16:43] <jrwren> rick_h_: this one seems MOSt relevant: http://www2.oakland.edu/gradstudy/pages_cfm/course_detail.cfm?cterm=201130&subj=CSE&numb=616
[16:44] <jrwren> the whole list is here:
[16:44] <jrwren> http://www2.oakland.edu/gradstudy/pages_cfm/catalog3.cfm?cterm=201130&subj=CSE&action=printable
[16:44] <snap-l> jrwren: Was linking to Computational Theory as part of the building blocks for Machine Learning
[16:44] <jrwren> oh, well, I don't know that it is really.
[16:44] <jrwren> i mean, it is in as much as it is the foundation for all comptuer science
[16:44] <jrwren> but beyond that, I dont' know that it does.
[16:45] <jrwren> machine learning seems to be built on basic algorithms.
[16:45] <jrwren> and stats
[16:45] <jrwren> like Bayes and Markov
[16:45] <snap-l> right.
[16:46] <jrwren> rick_h_: don't forget about http://itunes.stanford.edu/
[16:46] <snap-l> Heck, even MIT Courseware
[16:46] <jrwren> right.
[16:47] <jrwren> http://see.stanford.edu/see/courseinfo.aspx?coll=348ca38a-3a6d-4052-937d-cb017338d7b1
[16:47] <rick_h_> yea, I like the look of CSE 581 as a starter
[16:47] <snap-l> http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-867-machine-learning-fall-2006/
[16:47] <rick_h_> only pre-req is db which I can handle no problem
[16:48] <jrwren> http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-867-machine-learning-fall-2006/
[16:48] <rick_h_> but the neural net/etc is stuff I'd want to get to
[16:48] <jrwren> oh, lol.
[16:48] <snap-l> jrwren: Beat you. :)
[16:48] <jrwren> snap-l: we must have googled the same stuff.
[16:48] <rick_h_> nice
[16:48] <jrwren> snap-l: JYNX! U OWE ME A COKE!
[16:48] <snap-l> heh
[16:50] <rick_h_> grumble. their class search for the schedule has no CSE section at all, just CIS
[16:51] <jrwren> who? OU?
[16:51] <rick_h_> yea, all the drop downs of decipline have CIS vs cse
[16:51] <jrwren> are you in business school instaed of engineering school or something?
[16:52] <rick_h_> no, I think the main site only looks at undergrad
[16:52] <jrwren> could be
[16:53] <rick_h_> yea, got it, can find the listings now
[16:53] <rick_h_> just checking if there's an offering schedule/etc
[16:53] <jrwren> if you think you need the focus of a classroom instead of online coursewear... we could organize something here and with CHC.
[16:53] <rick_h_> cool thanks guys, lots of good links
[16:53] <jrwren> ya know, take the online thing together and tehn meet at CHC to discuss and review that weeks course.
[16:53] <jrwren> and be on teh same schedule
[16:53] <snap-l> jrwren: I'd love that
[16:53] <jrwren> i've done that with book reading group before and it was very successful IMO
[16:53] <rick_h_> hah, forget a book club
[16:53] <rick_h_> "machine learning club"
[16:54] <snap-l> It's been a while since I've worked on any of the CompSci stuff
[16:54] <jrwren> right
[16:54] <jrwren> online coursewear club
[16:54] <rick_h_> cool, will have to check it out
[16:54] <rick_h_> I've just had a bug recently about some of the big data type learning/recommendation stuff
[16:54] <snap-l> rick_h_: You are hitting the wall. :)
[16:54] <rick_h_> and never got that high in school things, but it's a bit out of my casual reading/self learning branch
[16:54] <jrwren> big data type?
[16:54] <snap-l> and are looking for something to climb
[16:55] <rick_h_> loved the pycon talk from the bit.ly tech
[16:55] <rick_h_> big data
[16:55] <rick_h_> all the social networks and their big data
[16:55] <rick_h_> hopefully bookie and some larger datasets
[16:57] <jrwren> oh, well, I think big data is yet another field :)
[16:57] <jrwren> I got high in school things.
[16:57] <Milyardo> big data?
[16:57] <jrwren> see my masters degree?
[16:58] <jrwren> large data
[16:58] <rick_h_> I tried to get a master, I just can't stand school that much. I'm a practical person I think
[16:58] <jrwren> right.
[16:58] <jrwren> you are too smart.
[16:58] <rick_h_> the only reason this is coming up is that I want to try out doing practical stuff with it
[16:58] <brousch> school is too slow for rick_h_
[16:58] <jrwren> i'm dumb enough taht I didn't figure out how dumb school was until I got far into my masters.
[16:58] <rick_h_> but a few classes from those that know more than me on a subject I'm interested in might work
[16:59] <rick_h_> vs a whole set of courseware
[16:59] <jrwren> mapreduce is really the #1 answer to large data.
[16:59] <jrwren> if you can't solve it with map reduce, I think you are immediately back into research land that hasn't been practically proven.
[16:59] <rick_h_> yea, but there's the math on relating items
[16:59] <rick_h_> you need to know what to tell map reduce to do to get meaningful stuff out
[17:00] <jrwren> right.
[17:00] <jrwren> that is the art part of the computer science
[17:01] <jrwren> you are basically saying "how do I knwo what map and reduce function to use"
[17:01] <jrwren> and sometimes that reduction part can be VERY challenging
[17:01] <rick_h_> so my immediate practical thing is with bookmarks
[17:01] <jrwren> for bookie?
[17:01] <rick_h_> "you're viewing this bookmark, and here are 5 like it via tags/content
[17:01] <rick_h_> right
[17:01] <rick_h_> but also at work, we've got a lot of stats data that might be interesting
[17:02] <rick_h_> "people that like car XXX also like car yyy"
[17:02] <jrwren> the "like it" sounds more like clustering.
[17:02] <rick_h_> I'm not 100% on it, but the idea's been in the back of my head
[17:02] <jrwren> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-means_clustering
[17:02] <rick_h_> right, well 'like' can be scored based on popularity (views) actual content, age, etc
[17:02] <rick_h_> yea, there's a ton of ways to put the things together
[17:02] <jrwren> but then you need to define your distance function, and that can be challenging
[17:03] <rick_h_> you have to walk through them and see what tends to help get your better scores/results
[17:03] <jrwren> yup
[17:03] <jrwren> I think all that is the art part of what we do.
[17:04] <rick_h_> yea, I mean these days, customer purchase info, etc all kinds of ways to need/get invovled in this
[17:04] <jrwren> yup.
[17:04] <jrwren> amazons "customers viewing this also viewed" is a good example.
[17:04] <rick_h_> right
[17:05] <jrwren> and you can also s/view/purchase/
[17:05] <jrwren> and get a different dataset
[17:05] <jrwren> and when you are talking business application it is likely that both are important
[17:05] <jrwren> or... i mean, multiple functions are important
[17:06] <rick_h_> greg-g: is vermont in MI?
[17:07] <greg-g> nope, neither are the smokies ;)
[17:07] <rick_h_> ok, sorry read that too fast
[17:07] <greg-g> should have put a "..." in there
[17:07] <rick_h_> got thinking maybe I went 'too far'
[17:07] <Milyardo> IMO application frameworks like MapRduce are often symptomatic of overuse of relation database models over object oriented or heirarchial databases
[17:07] <rick_h_> disagree... :)
[17:10] <rick_h_> greg-g: check out the NCT, they have some great maps
[17:10] <greg-g> cool
[17:10] <rick_h_> we've driven a few scenic routes that ran through it last year checking it out
[17:10] <rick_h_> walked a bit down a trail head, it's on our todo when the boy gets older
[17:11] <rick_h_> my grandmother's house in VA is like 5mi from a trail head
[17:11] <rick_h_> oh crap, nvm, NCT was the one we did by manistee river
[17:11] <rick_h_> that's the app trail
[17:12] <greg-g> yeah, there is some good lookign NCT up by Duluth, though. But a 12 horu drive away :(
[17:12] <rick_h_> yea, VA is as well
[17:12] <rick_h_> how far is the smokeys?
[17:13] <rick_h_> well 10-12hr
[17:14] <greg-g> ish, yeah
[17:38] <snap-l> Time to pounce on the mail-dude.
[17:38] <rick_h_> uh oh, what toy is in the mail this time?
[17:44] <snap-l> Just a few more ebay winnings.
[17:45] <Milyardo> I'm thinking about upgrading from my G1, anyone have any recommendations? The G2 seems underpowered, so I was looking at the Nexus S or Desire HD at the moment
[17:45] <snap-l> got some shrinkwrapped GURPS stuff for $1.99
[17:45] <snap-l> My sis in law is thrilled with her G2
[17:45] <rick_h_> Milyardo: on t-mo?
[17:45] <snap-l> depends on what you want to do with it
[17:47] <Milyardo> probably play alot of emulated games on it
[17:47] <Milyardo> rick_h_: Yes, T-Mobile
[17:48] <Milyardo> No contract though, swtching carriers could be an option
[17:48] <rick_h_> the sensation hd is rated high
[17:48] <rick_h_> some good things coming out about it
[17:48] <Milyardo> but I've liked T-Mobile serviec in Flint though, hasn't been too bad
[17:48] <rick_h_> basically I'd just check through android central reviews if you're not sure
[17:48] <rick_h_> if you want to check out nfc, the nexus is about all there is
[17:49] <Milyardo> Hardware stats sound sexy, price is pretty high though
[17:49] <Milyardo> on the Sensation that is
[17:49] <rick_h_> ok, well you didn't metion price :P
[17:50] <Milyardo> Pirce isn't too much an issue, but it signicantly above the others
[17:51] <rick_h_> I'd probably just to the nexus
[17:51] <rick_h_> I'm a fan of the google devices though
[17:51] <krondor> Milyardo:  G2X
[17:52] <Milyardo> Hrmm...Pioneering AOSP development on the Sensation could be fun
[17:54] <Milyardo> krondor: Is the G2X a rebranded Desire HD?
[17:55] <Wolfger> snap-l: GURPS... when AD&D just isn't geeky enough. :-)
[17:55] <Wolfger> but woot on the super deal
[17:56] <krondor> Milyardo:  Desire HD is an HTC, G2X is an LG.  It's dual core (tegra 2) and a stock google experience (though not a 'google' phone so not clue on how updates will work).
[17:57] <krondor> g2x versus htc sensation http://androinica.com/2011/04/t-mobile-g2x-vs-htc-sensation/
[18:01] <krondor> also it has official Cyanogenmod support which is more important to me really... http://www.cyanogenmod.com/devices/t-mobile-g2x
[18:02] <jrwren> Milyardo: MayReduce is not an "application framework" so I don't know what you are talking about.
[18:03] <jrwren> MapRduce also has nothing to do with RDB models or OO or Heirarchial db.
[18:07] <Milyardo> Ignoring Tegra, The Sensation seems to have better hardware
[18:07] <Milyardo> jrwren: If its not an software framework then what is it?
[18:08] <rick_h_> basically a giant csv parser
[18:13] <krondor> Milyardo: yeah sensations has a better screen, proc is better in some ways/worse in others, but it has sense ui and I think the locked bootloader stuff (before htc reversed on that) not sure on the last bit
[18:14] <Milyardo> Tegra does interest me, might have to look into it
[18:16] <brousch> krondor: i use cyanogenmod support as a necessary feature too
[18:24] <binbrain> any "easy" way to maintain the formatted output of a command when dumping the output to a file?
[18:29] <binbrain> nm
[18:32] <brousch> i went down to The Geek Group's building at lunch and got to see this in action http://thegeekgroup.org/2011/06/18/captains-blog-tesla-coil-tuning/
[18:36] <snap-l> Wolfger: Hey now. :)
[18:40] <snap-l> Anyone have an opinion on the vornado fans? Are they just hype?
[18:49] <gamerchick02> the what?
[18:50] <gamerchick02> fans as in a fan to keep you cool? *confused*
[18:52] <snap-l> yes
[18:52] <gamerchick02> ok
[18:53] <gamerchick02> i thought you were talking about fans as in a fan of a team. i read that wrong
[18:53] <_stink_> i was thinking that if this is about a thing that moves air, then i am impressed
[18:53] <gamerchick02> and i haven't heard anything about vornado. sounds like a cross between a volcano and a tornado or something.
[18:53] <_stink_> because i can never imagine caring about the quality of a fan.
[18:53] <gamerchick02> well, you want something decent, IMHO
[18:54] <snap-l> heh
[19:13] <snap-l> http://www.bifter.co.uk/ <- This is awesome.
[19:13] <jrwren> Milyardo: an algorithm.  MapReduce: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.163.5292&rank=1
[19:13] <jrwren> MapReduce is a programming model and an associated implementation for processing and generating large data sets.
[19:33] <rick_h_> snap-l: I've got 3 vornados
[19:33] <rick_h_> I love them personally, medium one is best
[19:33] <rick_h_> really want to get a larger one but they're $$
[19:33] <snap-l> Yeah, I'm not sure I'm ready to spend $60 on a fan. :)
[19:34] <snap-l> but figured you might have an opinion. :)
[19:34] <rick_h_> they're definitely worth it over a normal rotating fan
[19:34] <rick_h_> I got one from woot, amazon special, and just paid for the 3rd after loving the other two
[19:34] <snap-l> Which one do you have, the 630?
[19:34] <rick_h_> http://goo.gl/JuXuk
[19:34] <rick_h_> http://goo.gl/3AmqY
[19:34] <rick_h_> yea, 630 and 730
[19:35] <snap-l> Yeah, the 730 looks nice
[19:35] <rick_h_> yea, my fav
[19:35] <rick_h_> if you want to try one let me know
[19:35] <rick_h_> I'll bring it to CHC
[19:35] <rick_h_> can bring one of each down
[19:35] <rick_h_> borrow it while we're away
[19:35] <snap-l> Yeah, that would be great
[19:35] <rick_h_> remind me to grab them
[19:35] <snap-l> Sure thing
[19:35] <rick_h_> but yea, will do
[19:36] <snap-l> Wish List Extension for Chrome
[19:36] <snap-l> Keep track of what you want. Add anything from any website to your Amazon Wish List.
[19:36] <snap-l> OK, that's just dangerous
[19:39] <binbrain> OMG, who knew about this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXcb7VPw59s
[19:42] <snap-l> I think I'm going to give up on twit vides
[19:42] <snap-l> and just do the audio streams instead.
[19:42] <rick_h_> I'm getting close to giving up on twit
[19:42] <snap-l> nad just download the ones that are interesting
[19:42] <snap-l> rick_h_: I don't want to go that far, but I'm understanding why you would say that
[19:43] <rick_h_> it's been getting bad lately imo
[19:43] <snap-l> I think the tech news is just bad
[19:43] <rick_h_> down to really just TNT, TWiT, and google
[19:43] <rick_h_> maybe
[19:44] <snap-l> Just depressing to hear about all of the locked-down stuff, security breaches, and people behaving badly.
[19:44] <rick_h_> well and they're starting to sound kind of uninformed more and more
[19:45] <snap-l> meh, to a certain extent
[19:45] <snap-l> I think you just need a break from tech
[19:45] <snap-l> like, say a week
[19:45] <rick_h_> heh, sounds good to me
[19:45] <snap-l> starting Thursday
[19:45] <rick_h_> yea, I can't even find a good tech book for the trip
[19:45] <rick_h_> thinking I might just drop it all and go fun book or something
[19:52] <brousch> go no book
[19:52] <brousch> listen to the voices in your head
[19:54] <snap-l> the voices in my head need an editor, badly
[19:55] <TeamXlink> What amd atholn 64 would be equilvalent to a pentium 4 2.8 ghz hyperthreading?
[19:56] <brousch> TeamXlink: http://paulisageek.com/compare/cpu/
[19:56] <rick_h_> I guess no, intel ftw
[19:56] <TeamXlink> Thank you for the link!
[19:56] <snap-l> http://www.anandtech.com/show/1657
[19:56] <snap-l> brousch's Google Foo is better than mine. :)
[19:57] <snap-l> Though that's newer CPUs
[19:57] <brousch> this one is probably more useful http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php
[19:58] <TeamXlink> Ah, thank you!
[19:58] <TeamXlink> That gave me what I needed to know.
[20:00] <brousch> i would guess amd athlon xp 2400+ or 2500+
[20:04] <snap-l> http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Phenom+9850B+Quad-Core
[20:04] <snap-l> That's my desktop machine
[20:05] <TeamXlink> Nice computer.
[20:06] <snap-l> It's old now. :)
[20:06] <TeamXlink> LOL
[20:06] <snap-l> It was middling when I bought it
[20:06] <snap-l> COnsidering the upper level machines are in the 8000+ mark now, I don't think this thing will be winning any races
[20:08] <TeamXlink> http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Pentium+4+2.00GHz
[20:10] <TeamXlink> My motherboard can't support the 2.8 ghz Pentium 4 I got, my motherboard only supports 544MHz FSB, the Pentium 4 2.8 GHZ is 800MHz FSB. At the moment I hgave to use my 2.00GHZ Pentium 4..
[20:12] <snap-l> I <3 that when I'm connected to the VPN at work, I can't test anything with SOAPUI
[20:14] <snap-l> h, because of the stupid proxy
[20:14] <snap-l> <- idgit
[20:15] <TeamXlink> I'm looking for a Micro ATX motherboard that supports: Socket 478, 800MHz FSB, 8x AGP, four or less expansion slots (Including AGP because the case I have only has 4 slots), and has at least 2 sata ports.(At the moment I'm using a PCI Sata card, but I'd rather have it on the motherboard). Newegg stoped selling 478 motherboards, where is a good place to look?
[20:16] <snap-l> eBay, more than likely
[20:16] <TeamXlink> Thank you.
[20:16] <snap-l> Not sure where else might carry them
[20:16] <brousch> am i totally dense for having no clue what dh_python2 is?
[20:17] <snap-l> dhh_python2 is python written by dhh. ;)
[20:17] <brousch> that does not help me
[20:20] <rick_h_> dh = debian helper
[20:20] <rick_h_> dh_XXX are helpers for debian packaging
[20:20] <rick_h_> db_python2 means a tool to help packaging python2
[20:20] <rick_h_> well, python2 packages
[20:21] <rick_h_> http://old.nabble.com/Transitioning-Python-2-helpers-to-dh_python2-td31812316.html
[20:21] <rick_h_> dh_python2 is the new goodness and we
[20:21] <rick_h_> want to transition all our Python 2 packages to use it.
[20:31] <brousch> ok
[20:35] <rick_h_> https://twitter.com/#!/Pinboard/status/83256217174147072 man it just gets crazier
[20:36] <brousch> probably looking for snap-l's old links
[20:37] <rick_h_> hah, "you've been shown to have links to copyright material, we own your ass now!"
[20:39] <brousch> rick_h_: you're next!
[20:39] <rick_h_> doh!
[20:43] <jrwren> haha.
[20:43] <snap-l> What the fuck?
[20:43] <snap-l> That's insane
[20:43] <jrwren> well, that is a good example of why you don't run everything on 1 hosting company. at least not if its gonna cost you $$4
[20:43] <jrwren> i wonder if that could happen to dropbox or evernote
[20:44] <snap-l> That would suck though if they raided pinboard.in because ther ewas a link to something surreptitious.
[20:44] <snap-l> you want to talk about pain in the ass
[20:44] <rick_h_> snap-l: I doubt it, I was more being funny
[20:44] <snap-l> Still... :)
[20:44] <rick_h_> from a twitter search the whole thing is sounding shady as can be
[20:44] <rick_h_> https://twitter.com/#!/srhea/status/83232931413372928
[20:45] <snap-l> Steve jackson Games lost their computers back in the 1990s because they were writing a book called Cyberpunk
[20:45] <snap-l> Was the catalyst for the EFF
[20:45] <snap-l> Oh damn
[20:46] <rick_h_> between that and the earlier: https://twitter.com/#!/curbednetwork/status/83171089429168128
[20:46] <rick_h_> seems like someone is running with some cash
[20:47] <brousch> or is in FBI interrogation
[20:47] <brousch> they took ar phones!
[20:47] <rick_h_> lol
[20:47] <rick_h_> well I'd think they'd still be in customer records/phone
[20:47] <rick_h_> now, available to answer is another matter
[20:49] <brousch> probably voip and the fbi took the voip servers
[21:09] <snap-l> I love the plea for hosting now
[21:10] <snap-l> for pinboard
[21:10] <rick_h_> yea
[21:10] <rick_h_> take 2
[21:10] <snap-l> as if learning isn't an option
[21:11] <brousch> it's fun to commit and push code
[21:11] <brousch> i've never really done it before
[21:12] <_stink_> did a pinboard competitor call in an anonymous tip to the FBI?
[21:12] <_stink_> AHEM
[21:13] <rick_h_> time for me to head home
[21:14] <_stink_> we won't tell
[21:14] <snap-l> he
[21:14] <snap-l> hey, stop that man!
[21:14] <brousch> by "head home" you really mean "flee to mexico"?
[21:15] <_stink_> hah
[21:53] <snap-l> I just figured out why Firefox went with a 3 month release
[21:53] <snap-l> The IE cake
[21:53] <snap-l> Now they can get quarterly cake
[21:55] <brousch> damn good plan
[21:55] <brousch> if they release every 0.1 seconds they might be able to bankrupt MS via cake expenses
[22:00] <jrwren> lol
[22:00] <jrwren> the cake is funny
[22:01] <jrwren> i think css animations and keeping up with ie10 beta is more likely the reason.
[22:01] <jrwren> IMO it will be *bad* if IE actually has more features than FF again.
[22:01] <jrwren> now if only FF would ship with a "use native codecs" for its html video
[22:02] <snap-l> if only IE++ would use web standard. ;)
[22:02] <brousch> but nobody uses ie 8 or 9. if you're using ie it's because you're stuck on 6 or 7 for badly-written business apps. otherwise you've moved on
[22:04] <binbrain> brousch: badly written business apps microsoft office online, which only supports IE for the full feature set
[22:04] <binbrain> ...business apps <like> microsoft...
[22:05] <snap-l> binbrain: Like is a strong word
[22:06] <snap-l> Business Apps require a standard like a tape worm requires a stomach to inhabit
[22:06] <snap-l> and IE is just such a tape-worm
[22:10] <jrwren> snap-l: not sure what you mean.
[22:10] <jrwren> Ie9 and IE10 are really damned good.
[22:14] <jrwren> is there a way to tell vim to remove teh swp after you tell it to recover?
[22:15] <snap-l> Yeah, you can tell it to delete
[22:15] <snap-l> that will remove the swap
[22:19] <snap-l> Trying to remain calm, but every time I see an image with a blog post that has nothing to do with the blog post, I want to smack someone.
[22:21] <snap-l> "I want to talk about the Ubuntu Community Process for a moment... http://www.flickr.com/photos/bellaphon/4543714593/"
[22:21] <devinheitmueller> snap-l: that has everything to do with the Ubuntu Community Process.
[22:22] <devinheitmueller> It's a social commentary!
[22:22] <snap-l> "It really drives me insane http://www.flickr.com/photos/ninjatactics/397128807/"
[22:22] <snap-l> http://victorpalau.net/2011/06/21/ubuntu-hardware-debugging-hard-problems/
[22:22] <snap-l> That's the latest one that set me off
[22:23] <devinheitmueller> The Ubuntu Community is like a fast food burger.  The bun is the core code that makes up the product, and the users are like the meaty center!
[22:23] <snap-l> http://victorpalau.net/2011/06/02/ubuntu-certification-dell-poweredge-servers/ <- THis is much better
[22:23] <snap-l> This tells me "Hey, there's eomthing in there about servers, and - oh look! - it's about Dell servers!
[22:25] <snap-l> and not "Oh, look, there's two people looking over a piece of lighting equipment. Maybe this is about lighting. Hey, the one guy has a book. Maybe it's something about how to repair your lighting equipment with a manual?"
[22:26] <Wolfger> devinheitmueller: So you're saying the core code is a lot of empty calories, and the users are fatty?
[22:26] <snap-l> If the double-down fits. ;)
[22:27] <devinheitmueller> Wolfger: Yes, and the ketchup is the blood of all the users who tried to install Ubuntu and failed miserably.
[22:27] <devinheitmueller> I knew somebody who spent a few minutes could come up with a more absurd metaphor than I initially suggested.
[22:28] <rick_h_> jrwren: call me when IE gets geolocation support, and that webgl stuff is a cop-out if I've ever heard one
[22:28] <snap-l> Ah, ketchup can be abstracted further. The crushed tomato paste is the hopes and aspirations of those looking for working wireless drivers, mixed together with the vinegar of Broadcom drivers
[22:28] <jrwren> snap-l: but... but... jeff atwood is a top blogger!  (re: image that has nothing to do with it)
[22:28] <snap-l> Adding a pinch of salt to the would to taste.
[22:28] <jrwren> rick_h_: i thought ie had geoloc
[22:28] <rick_h_> did it make it to 10?
[22:28] <rick_h_> I know 9 didn't
[22:28] <jrwren> must be in 10.
[22:28] <jrwren> i thought 9 had it.
[22:29] <jrwren> http://diveintohtml5.org/geolocation.html says 9.0+
[22:29] <rick_h_> http://blogs.captechconsulting.com/blog/andy-pemberton/ie9-w3c-geolocation-support
[22:29] <rick_h_> ah ok
[22:29] <rick_h_> cool then, nvm on that one
[22:30] <rick_h_> I missed it making it in after ^^ stuff