[00:02] <rump> prepend_delivered_to
[00:03] <rump> prepend_delivered_header rather
[00:24] <lifeless> SpamapS: ping
[00:26] <SpamapS> lifeless: pong, howdy
[00:26] <lifeless> I've installed lxc
[00:26] <lifeless> but it didn't bring in cgroup-bin
[00:26] <lifeless> is that optional ?
[00:26] <lifeless> or a missing dep ?
[00:27] <lifeless> also, my /etc/lxc directory is empty
[00:27] <lifeless> (I have no basic.conf)
[00:27] <lifeless> SpamapS: ^
[00:29] <SpamapS> hm
[00:30] <SpamapS> lifeless: /etc/lxc is in fact intentional
[00:30] <SpamapS> lifeless: but I think cgroup-bin seems like it should be in lxc's Depends or at least Recommends
[00:31] <SpamapS> as its not much use w/o cgroups
[00:35] <lifeless> SpamapS: so, can I have your basic.conf ?
[00:37] <SpamapS> lxc.network.type=veth
[00:37] <SpamapS> lxc.network.link=virbr0
[00:37] <SpamapS> lxc.network.flags=up
[00:37] <SpamapS> Thats it
[00:38] <lifeless> I'm filing bugs on the missing dep
[00:38] <lifeless> does it need libvirt-bin too ?
[00:40] <SpamapS> hallyn: if you're around.. lifeless is working with LXC and curious why it doesn't recommend/depend on cgroup-bin (I am also curious about that)
[00:41] <SpamapS> lifeless: I believe hallyn is EDT or CDT US, so he may be past EOD today
[00:41] <lifeless> bug 800456
[00:41] <SpamapS> new baby at home tho so there's no telling when he's sleeping or awake. :)
[00:41]  * SpamapS confirms that
[00:42] <SpamapS> lifeless: note that it may be related to bug 784093
[00:42] <lifeless> sure
[00:42] <SpamapS> I posted a workaround for that bug which I'm using now
[00:44] <lifeless> https://dev.launchpad.net/Running/LXC#preview is what I'm building up
[00:47] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey can look at the by end of week
[00:47] <lifeless> SpamapS: how do you tell lxc-create to use the local proxy ?
[00:52] <keyboardtalk> I cannot access my printer on ubuntu server 10.04 from other computers (windows) on network. How can I fix this? HP printer with CUPS
[00:54] <SpamapS> lifeless: it runs debootstrap, which respects the appropriate environment variables I think. If they're being stripped, add them to /etc/default/lxc
[00:55] <lifeless> it was sudo
[00:55] <SpamapS> lifeless: I use MIRROR=http://127.0.0.1:9999/ubuntu in mine.. which is the path to my local approx cache
[00:55] <lifeless> sudo http_proxy=... lxc-create...
[01:01] <lifeless> SpamapS: lxc-start: open /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu/lucid-test-lp/devices.deny : No such file or directory
[01:01] <lifeless> lxc-start: open /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu/lucid-test-lp/devices.deny : No such file or directory
[01:01] <lifeless> SpamapS: I have that workaround in place already
[01:02] <lifeless> ls /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu
[01:02] <lifeless> cgroup.clone_children  cgroup.event_control  cgroup.procs  cpu.rt_period_us  cpu.rt_runtime_us  cpu.shares  notify_on_release  release_agent  tasks
[01:04] <SpamapS> lifeless: did you restart cgred ?
[01:05] <lifeless> ah
[01:05] <lifeless> SpamapS: robertc@lifeless-64:~$ sudo service cgred restart
[01:05] <lifeless> cgred start/running, process 21711
[01:05] <lifeless> robertc@lifeless-64:~$ sudo lxc-start -n lucid-test-lp
[01:05] <lifeless> lxc-start: open /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu/lucid-test-lp/devices.deny : No such file or directory
[01:06] <SpamapS> Argh!
[01:06] <lifeless> there is a devices.deny under the devices tree
[01:06] <lifeless> uhm, i think I managed to flub the copy-paste
[01:07] <SpamapS> double Argh!
[01:07]  * SpamapS knows how Charlie Brown feels when Lucy pulls back the football
[01:07] <lifeless> ok, *now* have this:
[01:07] <lifeless> mount {
[01:07] <lifeless>         cpu = /sys/fs//cgroup/cpu;
[01:07] <lifeless>         cpuacct = /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu;
[01:07] <lifeless>         devices = /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu;
[01:07] <lifeless>         memory = /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu;
[01:07] <lifeless> }
[01:07] <lifeless> robertc@lifeless-64:~$ sudo service cgred restart
[01:07] <lifeless> cgred start/running, process 21766
[01:07] <lifeless> robertc@lifeless-64:~$ sudo lxc-start -n lucid-test-lp
[01:07] <lifeless> lxc-start: open /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu/lucid-test-lp/devices.deny : No such file or directory
[01:07] <lifeless> robertc@lifeless-64:~$ ls /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu
[01:08] <lifeless> cgroup.clone_children  cgroup.event_control  cgroup.procs  cpu.rt_period_us  cpu.rt_runtime_us  cpu.shares  notify_on_release  release_agent  tasks
[01:10] <lifeless> SpamapS: cgconfig restart appears to be the magic
[01:10] <SpamapS> AH right
[01:11] <lifeless> this doesn't look brilliant;
[01:11] <lifeless> Ubuntu 10.04 LTS lucid-test-lp /dev/console
[01:11] <lifeless> lucid-test-lp login: init: ssh main process (45) terminated with status 255
[01:14] <lifeless> SpamapS: also lxc-stop doesn't seem to stop t
[01:14] <lifeless> *it*
[01:14] <SpamapS> lifeless: that is actually normal, its caused by sshd starting before the network, and I believe it gets started later when the ifup finishes
[01:14] <SpamapS> heh.. impossible to tell because there's no syslog
[01:14] <SpamapS> doh
[01:16] <SpamapS> lifeless: installing rsyslog seems to have made sshd not die.
[01:17] <lifeless> SpamapS: interesting; as you say its cosmetic though
[01:17] <lifeless> so I'll note that its weird and move on; I can file a bug somewhere if you like
[01:17] <SpamapS> lifeless: lxc-stop actually does stop the container
[01:17] <SpamapS> it just says it can't
[01:18] <lifeless>  sudo lxc-stop -n lucid-lp-test
[01:18] <lifeless> robertc@lifeless-64:~$ echo $?
[01:18] <lifeless> 0
[01:18] <SpamapS> which is annoying
[01:18] <lifeless> I dispute this 'says it cannot' thing :)
[01:18] <lifeless> given I can ssh into the container after running that
[01:21] <SpamapS> Mine went away
[01:21] <SpamapS> lxc-stop: failed to stop 'lucid-test2': Operation not permitted
[01:21] <lifeless> mine hasn't :)
[01:21] <SpamapS> After saying that
[01:21] <hallyn> SpamapS: it doesn't work well with cgroup-bin right now, in fact
[01:21] <lifeless> should I file a bug ?
[01:21] <hallyn> needs some lubin
[01:21] <SpamapS> I'm able to halt it from inside too.
[01:21] <lifeless> SpamapS: I can poweroff internally
[01:21] <lifeless> just not -stop externally
[01:22] <SpamapS> lifeless: hallyn can probably answer your questions with an order of magnitude more authority than I can. :)
[01:23] <hallyn> i'm guessing your problems are due to cgred
[01:24] <hallyn> recommend just doing mount -t cgroup cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup and thart's that
[01:24] <hallyn> we do need to fix cgroup-bin interaction
[01:25] <SpamapS> hallyn: but it would be cooler if it worked with cgroup-bin. :)
[01:25] <lifeless> https://dev.launchpad.net/Running/LXC#preview is what I'm writing pu
[01:25] <hallyn> SpamapS: patches welcome :)
[01:26] <hallyn> SpamapS: might work on that at the sprint
[01:26] <ntoombs> hello
[01:26] <ntoombs> i have a question
[01:26] <ntoombs> i am recieving an error that looks like:
[01:27] <ntoombs> SIOCADDRT: Invalid argument
[01:27] <ntoombs> Failed to bring up eth1.
[01:27] <ntoombs>    ...done.
[01:27] <ntoombs> after i try to restart networking using the sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart
[01:27] <SpamapS> ntoombs: thats not actually a valid way to "restart networking"
[01:28] <ntoombs> i have my network set up on static using the device eth1
[01:28] <ntoombs> what is a valid way then?
[01:28] <ntoombs> i've done it before using dhcp
[01:28] <ntoombs> but static messed it up
[01:28] <SpamapS> For static it *should* work...
[01:29] <ntoombs> right but for some reason it's not
[01:29] <SpamapS> ntoombs: all that does is ifdown -a and ifup -a
[01:29] <ntoombs> i've been into my /etc/network/interfaces file and made sure everything is "correct" as far as i know
[01:29] <SpamapS> ntoombs: can you do 'ifdown eth1 ; ifup eth1' ?
[01:29] <ntoombs> i have before and i've gotten errors
[01:29] <ntoombs> i will post them
[01:29] <ntoombs> one sec
[01:30] <ntoombs> sudo ifdown eth1
[01:30] <ntoombs> ifdown: interface eth1 not configured
[01:30] <ntoombs> sudo ifup eth1
[01:31] <ntoombs> SIOCADDRT: No such process
[01:31] <ntoombs> Failed to bring up eth1
[01:31] <qman__> first check that eth1 exists in 'ifconfig -a'
[01:31] <ntoombs> i've looked in about every ubuntu and linux server forum there is out there and i still havn't fixed it
[01:32] <qman__> those errors are usually hardware/driver level
[01:32] <ntoombs> i know it's there
[01:32] <ntoombs> i put it there
[01:32] <qman__> yes, but does it show up in ifconfig -a?
[01:32] <ntoombs> :( don't tell me that
[01:32] <qman__> configuring it and it showing up are different things
[01:32] <ntoombs> yes it does
[01:32] <qman__> ok
[01:32] <qman__> does setting it manually with ifconfig work?
[01:33] <qman__> sudo ifconfig eth1 1.2.3.4/24 up
[01:33] <ntoombs> i've tried that too but i'll try again
[01:34] <qman__> if it does work, it's likely an issue with the configuration or ifup
[01:34] <qman__> if it doesn't work, try this first
[01:34] <ntoombs> i use the internal ip right?
[01:34] <qman__> sudo ifconfig eth1 0.0.0.0 down
[01:34] <qman__> sudo ifconfig eth1 0.0.0.0 up
[01:34] <qman__> then configuring it with the IP you want
[01:36] <ntoombs> on doing the ifconfig eth1 1.2.3.4/24 up i got a right bracket pointing to my cursur
[01:36] <qman__> that's a syntax error
[01:37] <qman__> check that you didn't put in any \ or " or '
[01:37] <qman__> press ctrl+c to escape
[01:37] <ntoombs> yea i did it wrong
[01:37] <hallyn> lifeless: do you need cgroups-bin for some other reason, or was that just how you were getting cgroups mounted?
[01:37] <ntoombs> k this time no result
[01:37] <ntoombs> just a new line
[01:38] <qman__> that means successful
[01:38] <qman__> now 'ifconfig eth1' to verify
[01:38] <hallyn> lifeless: assuming this is on natty or oneiric, can you try without cgroups-bin, and just with fstab mounting cgroups?
[01:38] <hallyn> I suspect that'll allow lxc-stop to work
[01:38] <ntoombs> yea it's 11.04 natty narwhal
[01:39] <ntoombs> ifconfig eth1 gave me what it gave me before
[01:39] <lifeless> hallyn: just following SpamapS instructions :)
[01:39] <qman__> if it shows the address you set, it worked and there's nothing wrong with your interface
[01:39] <qman__> and the problem is either with your /etc/network/interfaces or something in ifup
[01:40] <ntoombs> well when i had my interface setup up on dhcp
[01:40] <qman__> if it shows a different or no address, you probably have something else hooking it
[01:40] <qman__> like dhcpcd
[01:40] <ntoombs> i could ping anything all day long
[01:40] <ntoombs> it showed the ip address that i set to it staticaly
[01:40] <qman__> so the interface is fine
[01:41] <qman__> next most likely is an error in /etc/network/interfaces, pastebin it if you can
[01:41] <ntoombs> yea and the netmask is 255.255.255.0
[01:41] <ntoombs> ok one sec
[01:41] <ntoombs> i'll block out the ip
[01:41] <qman__> don't
[01:41] <ntoombs> ok
[01:41] <qman__> showing your IP isn't a security risk, everyone in here is publicly showing theirs
[01:42] <qman__> by connecting to freenode at all, you are
[01:42] <qman__> plus, if it's behind a NAT, it's meaningless to anyone but you anyway
[01:42] <ntoombs> http://pastebin.com/VhyRDawJ
[01:42] <ntoombs> k
[01:43] <ntoombs> i'm a networking noob
[01:43] <ntoombs> thank you so much for helping me :)
[01:43] <qman__> looks fine
[01:43] <qman__> try this
[01:43] <ntoombs> i can access my router with that gateway in my browser
[01:43] <qman__> sudo ifconfig eth1 0.0.0.0 up; sudo ifup eth1
[01:44] <ntoombs> same error i've been getting
[01:44] <ntoombs> SIOCADDRT: No such process
[01:44] <ntoombs> Failed to bring up eth1.
[01:45] <hallyn> lifeless: ok, cool, then just don't use it :)
[01:45] <hallyn> I just have
[01:45] <hallyn> cgroup	/sys/fs/cgroup	cgroup	defaults	0	0
[01:46] <ntoombs> i don't understand hallyn
[01:46] <hallyn> (in fstab)
[01:46] <hallyn> ntoombs: sorry wasn't directed at you
[01:46] <ntoombs> oh sorry
[01:46] <ntoombs> i guess i'm missing the other side of the conversation
[01:47] <hallyn> ntoombs: just having a very async conversation with lifeless :)
[01:47] <qman__> ntoombs, try changing in your /etc/network/interfaces file
[01:47] <qman__> so that 'address 1.2.3.4' is just like that, with only one space
[01:47] <qman__> on all the lines
[01:47] <ntoombs> ok
[01:48] <ntoombs> done
[01:48] <qman__> and try ifup again
[01:49] <ntoombs> same error
[01:49] <ntoombs> sudo ifconfig eth1 192.168.254.115 up; sudo ifup eth1 right?
[01:49] <qman__> just sudo ifup eth1
[01:50] <ntoombs> yea same error
[01:51] <qman__> well
[01:51] <qman__> unless your interfaces file is somehow different
[01:51] <ntoombs> the networking restart thing worked with dhcp
[01:51] <ntoombs> it doesn't work with static
[01:52] <ntoombs> does that count as different?
[01:52] <qman__> paste/pastebin the result of 'sudo route -n'
[01:52] <qman__> that error message means that it can't add a route because it's outside the valid range
[01:53] <keyboardtalk> How do I share a cups printer?
[01:53] <ntoombs> http://pastebin.com/i4qcmrzu
[01:53] <ntoombs> the 192.168.254.115 was assigned by dhcp
[01:53] <ntoombs> i didn't change it
[01:54] <ntoombs> route doesn't seem to recongnise my default gateway
[01:54] <qman__> it isn't set
[01:54] <ntoombs> without -n it just shows an asterix
[01:54] <qman__> try this
[01:55] <qman__> http://pastebin.com/index/VhyRDawJ
[01:55] <qman__> change your /etc/network/interfaces to that, and reboot
[01:56] <qman__> assuming .15 is not already in use
[01:56] <qman__> you can use another one if it is, just choose one outside the DHCP range
[01:56] <qman__> which is probably 100-200
[01:57] <ntoombs> nothing is different
[01:57] <ntoombs> and i'm working on a headless server from an ssh connection from my mac so if i reboot i'm afraid i won't be able to get back
[01:57] <ntoombs> i'll check the range
[01:58] <qman__> well, you can't very well change network settings without disconnecting
[01:58] <qman__> are you connected to a different interface?
[01:58] <ntoombs> it's from 1 - 253 :P
[01:58] <qman__> well, you should limit that
[01:58] <ntoombs> you can if you use networking restart
[01:58] <qman__> and then choose an address outside of it
[01:59] <qman__> using 'networking restart' would, in fact, disconnect you if the settings changed
[01:59] <qman__> if you did not get disconnected, it means the settings didn't change
[01:59] <ntoombs> yea it did last time
[01:59] <ntoombs> and i had to reconnect
[01:59] <ntoombs> i guess i just got lucky
[01:59] <ntoombs> ok i'll reboot
[01:59] <ntoombs> your pastebin file... what was different?
[02:00] <qman__> I just added network and broadcast
[02:00] <qman__> and removed the extra spaces
[02:00] <ntoombs> oh i had that earlier
[02:00] <ntoombs> but i didn't reboot
[02:00] <ntoombs> i'll try it
[02:00] <qman__> what is most likely, is something is hooking your interface and preventing the change from being made
[02:00] <qman__> a reboot would solve that issue
[02:00] <ntoombs> i don't see the network and broadcast in there
[02:01] <ntoombs> its network 192.168.254.0
[02:01] <qman__> ff
[02:01] <ntoombs> and broadcast 192.168.254.254?
[02:01] <qman__> http://pastebin.com/muYERLhT
[02:01] <qman__> sorry
[02:01] <ntoombs> no problem :)
[02:02] <ntoombs> and should i change the dhcp range in my router?
[02:02] <qman__> yes
[02:02] <qman__> if the router tries to hand out the IP you're using, it'll be troublesome
[02:02] <ntoombs> k i'm doing all that right now
[02:02] <ntoombs> brb
[02:02] <qman__> so you should open a gap in that DHCP range, and use it for your statics
[02:03] <twb> Or simply instruct the DHCP server to statically allocate leases by MAC for specific IPs
[02:04] <ntoombs> should i unplug my router for changes to take effect?
[02:04] <qman__> no
[02:04] <ntoombs> ok
[02:04] <qman__> unless your router is a really poor quality one
[02:04] <ntoombs> lol
[02:04] <qman__> it should apply once you click save
[02:04] <ntoombs> it's not that bad
[02:04] <ntoombs> it's applied but my desktop isn't assigned a local ip anymore
[02:05] <ntoombs> i'm on my laptop
[02:05] <ntoombs> but it's no problem for now
[02:05] <lifeless> hallyn: sorry, was on the phone for a bit there
[02:05] <ntoombs> i'll edit my interfaces file now
[02:05] <lifeless> hallyn: I'd rather not be telling folk to mount cgroups by hand in my docs - https://dev.launchpad.net/Running/LXC#preview
[02:05] <hallyn> lifeless: not even using fstab?
[02:05] <lifeless> hallyn: particularly as folk may have cgroup-bin installed for other reasons
[02:06] <lifeless> which would presumably clash in fun ways
[02:06] <hallyn> not-quite-sleeping baby in lap, would you midn talking tomorrow?
[02:06] <ntoombs> rebooting now
[02:06] <hallyn> lifeless: i think the real problem with the cgroups is that lxc-init doesn't start in cgroup:/ like it expects.  (Since you seem to have all cgrousp compsited under same dir, that's the only thing that should be going wrong)
[02:07] <hallyn> lifeless:  if this is high priority, i can take a crack at solving this tomorrow
[02:07] <hallyn> should be about a day's work, and like i say, it needs to be done sometime
[02:08] <lifeless> hallyn: well, I have a workaround (the new cgconfig from SpamapS) for folk using natty, which most lp devs are atm
[02:08] <ntoombs> qman__ looks like it's gonna time out and it's still not showing up on my router
[02:08] <lifeless> only a few are brave enough to be on oni yet
[02:09] <lifeless> hallyn: if we can get it sorted for oni release, that would be awesome
[02:09] <qman__> ntoombs, it's not getting a DHCP lease, so it won't show up in the router
[02:09] <qman__> try pinging the IP address you gave it
[02:09] <hallyn> lifeless: so it all works with SpamapS'  config?
[02:09] <lifeless> hallyn: well, it doesn't shutdown on lxc-stop
[02:09] <lifeless> hallyn: but poweroff inside it appears to work
[02:09] <ntoombs> qman__: it would ping once then timeout
[02:10] <hallyn> lifeless: ok, cool, if you can get work done with that, that's great
[02:10] <lifeless> we certainly can; I like to report all friction I run into though.
[02:10] <qman__> ntoombs, does it keep doing so?
[02:10] <ntoombs> qman__: dont i need it to show up on the router to do port forwarding and connect to the internet?
[02:10] <lifeless> hallyn: I'll file a separate bug about the lxc-stop not working
[02:10] <hallyn> lifeless: cool, i'll put cgroup-bin interaction high on todo list meanwhile
[02:11] <qman__> as in, one response per ping?
[02:11] <hallyn> lifeless: ok, thanks
[02:11] <lifeless> hallyn: sweet, thanks
[02:11] <ntoombs> qman__: yes it times out every time after the first packet
[02:11] <lifeless> hallyn: one thing that would be -awesome-
[02:11] <lifeless> hallyn: would be a template that bind mounts /home and uses the same uids
[02:11] <qman__> so if you stop and start a new ping, the first packet gets a response, but none after that?
[02:11] <ntoombs> qman__: i get one good packet then it times out every second after
[02:11] <ntoombs> qman__: correct
[02:12] <qman__> that's either a hardware problem, a driver problem, or a really bizarre firewall problem
[02:12] <hallyn> lifeless: shouldn't be too bad.  would you want just /etc/shadow entries for uids 1000+ copied over, or the whole thing?
[02:12] <lifeless> hallyn: let me describe my use case; then you can decide :)
[02:13] <qman__> physically, how are you connected?
[02:13] <qman__> direct to the router, or through a secondary switch?
[02:13] <lifeless> hallyn: I want to do LP development in a lxc container rather than a VM
[02:13] <hallyn> lifeless: the thing i've been using a lot (from ppa) is lxc cloning with LVM.  Seems like something which could be good for lp dev
[02:13] <ntoombs> qman__: well the server is connected by ethernet direct to the router. and i connect via ssh from a terminal on my mac
[02:13] <lifeless> hallyn: so in the container I want to install rabbitmq, postgresql, apache etc
[02:13] <lifeless> hallyn: and I want my source code sitting in my /home/robertc
[02:13] <qman__> mac is over ethernet or wifi?
[02:14] <lifeless> hallyn: where I can edit it as normal, commit with my bzr & gpg keys etc
[02:14] <keyboardtalk> How do I access a shared printer from Windows?
[02:14] <ntoombs> wifi
[02:14] <ntoombs> i can do eathernet though
[02:14] <qman__> try plugging into ethernet, and trying
[02:14] <qman__> it might be a wifi thing on the router
[02:14] <lifeless> hallyn: then run the tests within the lxc container, using the lxc postgresql, rabbit apache
[02:14] <ntoombs> ok
[02:14] <ntoombs> and again thanks a ton for helping :)
[02:14] <ntoombs> most people would have given up by now
[02:15] <ntoombs> this might disconnect me
[02:15] <qman__> not a problem, some routers do some strange things in the name of 'security'
[02:15] <lifeless> hallyn: so inside the lxc it needs to write to me homedir without messing stuff up, but I don't care about service accounts
[02:15] <hallyn> lifeless: would you want the whole /home bind-mounted?  just ~/src or something?
[02:16] <lifeless> hallyn: whole home/$me would be easiest to reason about I think
[02:16] <hallyn> 'without messing stuff up' meaning not changing owner uids, right?
[02:16] <lifeless> yeah
[02:16] <hallyn> ok
[02:16] <lifeless> oh for bonus points,
[02:16] <hallyn> lifeless: i think i'd use that myself :)  would that be higher prio for you than cgroup-bin?
[02:16] <lifeless> definitely
[02:17] <lifeless> hallyn: bug 798476 is also a very interesting one for me
[02:17] <lifeless> hallyn: LP memory use is much lower on i386
[02:17] <ntoombs> qman__: my router says i'm still connected wirelessly and my ping comes back the same. i have airport turned off co i can't connect to anything wirelessly
[02:17] <lifeless> hallyn: shall I file a bug about the developer bind-mounting template [option, whatever - i dunno how it all hangs together yet]
[02:18] <hallyn> lifeless: sure, that's good.  (not sure hwo kosher it is to just add things to the blueprint right now)
[02:18] <qman__> well, I don't know anything about macs, but you didn't even time out, so you'd have to have the same IP address
[02:18] <qman__> which is unlikely if you switched to wired
[02:18] <hallyn> lifeless: hm, people *have* run i386 containers on amd64
[02:19] <hallyn> but i can't remember who
[02:19] <lifeless> yeah
[02:19] <ntoombs> qman__: i really think i just have a dumb router
[02:19] <lifeless> its probably just a case of passing the arch flag to debootstrap
[02:19] <twb> hallyn: I do it
[02:19] <qman__> ntoombs, entirely possible
[02:19] <lifeless> it *should* be trivial
[02:19] <twb> Actually, I did it only to see if I could; I don't in productioin
[02:19] <lifeless> twb: is it more than ^
[02:19] <twb> http://paste.debian.net/120603/
[02:20] <twb> Look in there for references to $arch
[02:20] <qman__> if you think that's the case, I'd give the router a reboot then
[02:20] <lifeless> twb: thanks
[02:20] <ntoombs> sounds good
[02:20] <ntoombs> brb
[02:20] <twb> Looks like only issue is debootstrap
[02:20] <twb> And as a knock-on effect, which debootstrap cache I copy
[02:22] <hallyn> twb: nifty, thanks
[02:24] <lifeless> hallyn: bug 800482
[02:24] <twb> Would it?
[02:24] <lifeless> it would
[02:25] <ntoombs_> qman__: i'm back
[02:25] <qman__> any luck?
[02:25] <ntoombs_> qman__: now i'm getting errors like ping: sendto: host is down
[02:25] <ntoombs_> and ping: sendto: no route to host
[02:26] <ntoombs_> but now my router says i'm on ethernet :)
[02:26] <hallyn> lifeless: cool, thanks
[02:27] <qman__> I'd try restarting the server again now that the router has rebooted, if you can reach the power button, just press it once quickly and it should power down
[02:27] <qman__> then press again to boot up
[02:27] <qman__> otherwise, if you can plug in a keyboard and press ctrl alt del
[02:27] <ntoombs_> ok
[02:27] <keyboardtalk> How does one access a shared printer (CUPS) hosted on ubuntu 10.04 from Windows client?
[02:28] <ntoombs_> quick press of a button did not a powerdown make
[02:28] <ntoombs_> i could hold it but i'm assuming that is not advisable?
[02:28] <qman__> generally no
[02:28] <qman__> but if you're not running any software yet it shouldn't cause too much trouble
[02:28] <qman__> what filesystem are you using?
[02:28] <ntoombs_> ext4 journaled so it's good
[02:29] <qman__> yeah
[02:29] <Feadin> Just did an apt-get update && apt-get upgrade and it wants to upgrade language-pack-en which now suddenly has LOTS of crazy dependencies, including firefox and many X libs... anyone noticed this? I'm using v11.04
[02:29] <ntoombs_> to change anything i have to swap the hard drive to my desktop
[02:29] <ntoombs_> but we're just doing a reboot right?
[02:29] <qman__> right
[02:29] <qman__> if it still doesn't come online at all, you might have to do that though
[02:29] <twb> Feadin: no, but I know how to bypass the "helpful" locale packages and just generate the one you want
[02:29] <qman__> may be that your router is filtering it out
[02:30] <ntoombs_> whad do you suggest i change in my router?
[02:30] <twb> Feadin: uninstall those, then "locale-gen en_AU.UTF-8; update-locale LANG=en_AU.UTF-8", where "en" is your language and "AU" is your country.
[02:31] <ntoombs_> its a 2WIRE 2701HG
[02:31] <qman__> ah, that's the issue exactly then
[02:31] <Feadin> So you're suggesting we should bypass bugs and pretend that they don't exist? :) Just wanted to check if this is actually a bug or a new "feature" to simplify the maintainers jobs ;)
[02:31] <twb> Feadin: I'm suggesting you should do it the Debian way
[02:31] <twb> Basically because I don't like the "feature"
[02:31] <qman__> sounds odd but 2wire DSL routers ONLY allow connectivity with DHCP-leased clients
[02:31] <qman__> if you want to get around that limitation you need a better router
[02:32] <ntoombs_> how about different firmware?
[02:32] <qman__> theoretically possible but I don't know of any
[02:32] <ntoombs_> m0n0wall?
[02:32] <qman__> that firmware would allow it, but I don't know that it would run on your router
[02:32] <ntoombs_> i was wanting to change it to that anyway
[02:32] <twb> Feadin: AFAICT ubuntu default behaviour is more or less to installing *every* english locale for every CLI package as "language-pack-en-base", and every english locale for every GUI package as "language-pack-en".
[02:33] <Feadin> I get it, but if I wanted to use Debian I'd be using Debian man :) Come on I'm not talking about personal preferences here. I'm just asking if anyone knows anything about this crazy dependencies which IMO shouldn't be on a server
[02:33] <qman__> plus you need to make sure your ISP isn't doing some funny things with it
[02:33] <twb> Feadin: so in a default lucid server network install you lose about 200MB to thunderbird and firefox localization
[02:33] <qman__> AT&T U-verse is notorious for this
[02:33] <twb> Feadin: shrug.  Report a bug, then.
[02:34] <ntoombs_> its actually windstream
[02:34] <qman__> if the router allows DHCP reservations, that may be the easiest way to go
[02:34] <Feadin> Yeah I know I should report a bug, but only if it is actually a bug. I came here to ask if anyone knew anything about this issue in particular.
[02:35] <qman__> Feadin, does it actually depend on them, or just recommend them?
[02:35] <Feadin> I mean, adding 144MB of multimedia dependencies for a metapackage on a bew server installation is not cool
[02:35] <twb> Feadin: if it's not a bug, the maintainer will just close the ticket with "not a bug"
[02:36] <ntoombs_> where would i find dhcp reservations?
[02:36] <Feadin> It depends on them
[02:36] <twb> Feadin: IIRC language-pack-en shouldn't be installed, only -base
[02:36] <twb> Feadin: IIRC the preseeds on optical media installers are supposed to be set up to behave this way
[02:36] <ntoombs_> qman__: would it work if i simply turned off dhcp?
[02:37] <qman__> ntoombs_, that's a good question, it would have to be something like "reservation" or "static IP" or some other "computer settings"
[02:37] <ntoombs_> like this forum post says how to do. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r22286649-How-do-I-turn-off-DHCP-on-2Wire-2701HGG
[02:38] <Feadin> I installed these servers a couple of weeks ago selectiong only "OpenSSH" and leaving everything else on default, after that just added mysql-server and that's about it
[02:38] <qman__> that might work, but be prepared to reset it if it doesn't
[02:39] <twb> Feadin: yes, I get it too, but I don't get a preseed file
[02:39] <qman__> was the router provided by your ISP?
[02:39] <ntoombs_> yes
[02:39] <twb> Feadin: I just manually uninstall those packages
[02:39] <qman__> sometimes they hack them up
[02:39] <ntoombs_> upon a $100 fee
[02:39] <qman__> breaking basic functionality like this
[02:40] <qman__> I need to go for a few minutes, I'll be back soon
[02:40] <ntoombs_> ok
[02:40] <Feadin> Anyone has a default 11.04 server installation to try and do an "apt-get update && apt-get -s upgrade"?
[02:41] <Feadin> just want to be sure this is actually a bug and not my mistake
[02:59] <Gaming4JC> Hey guys, I have a VPS running and I did an update of MySQL. I bumped into this error now everytime the system starts I cannot get MySQL - ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2)
[02:59] <Gaming4JC> if I type... sudo /etc/init.d/mysql start
[02:59] <Gaming4JC> I can get it running again. But that's not much of an option since I need this to be stable and working 24/7
[03:00] <Gaming4JC> I tried purge/reinstall of mysql, error persists.
[03:00] <Gaming4JC> ideas? :(
[03:00] <Jasonn> Gaming4JC: I can get you a vds real quick if you are looking for that
[03:01] <Gaming4JC> Jasonn: hmm?
[03:01] <Jasonn> check PM
[04:51] <ntoombs> qman__: you there?
[06:14] <josePhoenix> Hi all
[06:14] <josePhoenix> I seem to have broken my server :D
[06:14] <josePhoenix> This is a great development in my evening
[06:15] <josePhoenix> Can I display the grub config from a grub prompt?
[06:17] <josePhoenix> I just ran a normal dist upgrade and it rebooted and then I got "error no such device"
[06:22] <lifeless> twb: is that template you hav esomething you're going to put fforward as a patch ?
[06:22] <lifeless> twb: it seems to be structured rather differnetly :)
[06:24] <josePhoenix> But really. What's my first thing to try when I'm at a grub prompt?
[06:27] <twb> enter?
[06:28] <lifeless> twb: is that template you hav esomething you're going to put fforward as a patch ?
[06:28] <lifeless> twb: it seems to be structured rather differnetly :)
[06:29] <josePhoenix> twb: well, it does go to a new line.. doesn't do much else
[06:29] <twb> lifeless: it's in-house shite
[06:29] <twb> lifeless: I'm happy to publish it but it's not exactly merge-ready
[06:30] <lifeless> yeah
[06:31] <lifeless> I think I have a minimal (fugly) patch to do i386, I'm just testing now
[06:33] <josePhoenix> Is there any way to list drives or see the grub configuration from the grub> prompt?
[06:33] <josePhoenix> or am I better off using a livecd and trying from there
[06:33] <lifeless> for drives just tab complete
[06:33] <lifeless> (TAB
[06:34] <josePhoenix> Doesn't seem to show anything
[06:34] <lifeless> thats unusual :)
[06:34] <josePhoenix> the worst thing to hear :P
[06:35] <josePhoenix> Well the error message is something like "unknown device" but from googling I've seen this mentioned in conjunction with LVM and with unused floppy drives being enabled
[06:36] <twb> josePhoenix: depending on the bash, you will have tab completion
[06:36] <twb> josePhoenix: (hd<TAB>, (hd0)/<TAB> etc
[06:36] <twb> hd0 = sda, hd0,1 = sda1
[06:37] <twb> Oh, except I think in grub2 the numbering is from 0 for partitions as well :-/
[06:37] <josePhoenix> ay de mi....
[06:37] <twb> Note the parens around (hd0,1) are important
[06:37] <twb> If this is all too hard, just get a live CD and fix it that way
[06:37] <josePhoenix> hmm partition 0,1, ext2; partition 0,5: unknown filesystem
[06:38] <josePhoenix> But if the kernel + initrd was installed to a /boot partition it shouldn't have trouble reading it
[06:38] <twb> the latter might be swap
[06:38] <twb> Certainly it SHOULDN'T have trouble :-(
[06:40] <josePhoenix> The only thing that didn't go perfectly smoothly in this upgrade was that at one point the screen went blank and I hit enter to get it back without thinking
[06:40] <josePhoenix> and it chose N on the 'reboot now?' prompt and I had to start over
[06:40] <josePhoenix> but I thought ubuntu was too polished for that to fuck things up...
[06:44] <lifeless> so if its just got an old config
[06:44] <lifeless> subtracting 1 from the entries it was trying to boot with
[06:44] <lifeless> should make it all happy
[06:46] <josePhoenix> Could you elaborate on what that means?
[06:46] <lifeless> well
[06:47] <lifeless> your config should be present by default
[06:47] <lifeless> you can edit it in the grub prompt, or manually issue the commans
[06:48] <lifeless> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2#Command Line and Rescue Mode
[06:48] <lifeless> explore the fs's using tab complete to find the right partitions and then boot by hand
[06:49] <lifeless> if the stage2 loader couldn't be found thats more of a problem
[06:49] <lifeless> how far through is it getting ?
[06:50] <josePhoenix> It drops me at a grub> prompt after saying "unknown device"
[06:50] <josePhoenix> though that message only flashes on screen for an instant
[06:50] <josePhoenix> hmm does the grub prompt include a pager? I can't see the beginning of this config file -.-
[06:53] <lifeless> hah
[06:53] <lifeless> root@lucid-test-lp:~# arch
[06:53] <lifeless> x86_64
[06:53] <lifeless> root@lucid-test-lp:~# dpkg --print-architecture
[06:53] <lifeless> i386
[06:56] <josePhoenix> Man, I used to know all of this back when I used Gentoo.
[06:56] <airtonix> is it possible to provide an option in ~/.ssh/config to limit-rate (the scp has an argument -l that takes Kbits/s)
[07:12] <josePhoenix> Anyone know if ubuntu wants initargs?
[07:12] <josePhoenix> er
[07:12] <josePhoenix> init= bootarg?
[07:14] <josePhoenix> Is there a pager in the initrd shell?
[07:14] <twb> init=foo is not necessary by default
[07:14] <josePhoenix> Or any way I can see the top half of this file that scrolls offscreen?
[07:15] <twb> The busybox program provides a bunch of applets; which ones depends on how the team are feeling that week.
[07:15] <twb> Debian's busybox includes more (or less?) nowadays, but I think Ubuntu's is a 100kB smaller and containers less stuff :-(
[07:15] <josePhoenix> :[
[07:15] <josePhoenix> more doesn't work and less is missing
[07:16] <twb> josePhoenix: if all else fails, you have to write to a file then use head and tail to get the page you want
[07:16] <twb> josePhoenix: I've seen that problem with more not working before, I think it's because the emergency environment's terminal capabilities are buggered – I never solved it myself
[07:16] <twb> re head/tail – or grep, sed, etc., of course
[07:18] <josePhoenix> okay, here is what I have figured out so far... I have a /boot at (hd0,1) that contains no vmlinuz/initrd.img but it does have vmlinuz-2.6.38-8-server + corresponding initrd
[07:18] <twb> The symlinks are in root, not boot, by default
[07:19] <josePhoenix> ah good to know
[07:19] <josePhoenix> there is also a partition at (hd0,5) which grub says is an 'unknown filesystem' but must be an LVM group because I know there's supposed to be a swap partition on here
[07:19] <josePhoenix> and there are only two primary partitions
[07:19] <josePhoenix> I think the problem is that I need to guess root= based on the startup output from the initrd stage
[07:21] <josePhoenix> or not
[07:21] <josePhoenix> I'm not sure how grub and kernel lines and LVM work
[07:25] <josePhoenix> well that's interesting.
[07:31] <josePhoenix> YAY IT BOOTED
[07:37] <keyboardtalk> I need some help enabling php5 on apache2. php code is not being parsed by the server
[07:37] <SpamapS> keyboardtalk: did you install libapache2-mod-php5 ?
[07:37] <keyboardtalk> yes
[07:42] <SpamapS> keyboardtalk: did you then run 'sudo a2enmod php5' ?
[07:43] <twb> SpamapS: doesn't it do that implicitly in the postisnt
[07:44] <slyboots_> twb: Ah it should
[07:44] <keyboardtalk> SpamapS: yes
[07:46] <SpamapS> twb: not sure
[07:46] <SpamapS> would make sense
[07:49] <SpamapS> keyboardtalk: at this point you probably need to add a config file that adds the PHP handler
[07:49] <SpamapS> Would have hoped that happened automatically too but I guess not
[07:50] <twb> It *is* automatic provided he follows the conventions that the automatic scripts expect
[07:50] <twb> e.g. the mod_fcgi package sets up fast CGI only for *.fcgi files
[07:51] <SpamapS> been a while since I dropped it on a bare machine and tried it out. :-P
[07:54] <keyboardtalk>  SpamapS: okay php seems to be working in /var/www, but not in other directories, namely /home/<user>/public_html/
[07:55] <keyboardtalk> do php directories & files need certain permissions to work?
[07:58] <jmarsden> keyboardtalk: Read /etc/apache2/mods-enabled/php5.conf and note the deliberate turning off of PHP in user directories there, as a security precaution...
[07:58] <jmarsden> keyboardtalk: You can edit it if you want PHP in userdirs.
[07:58] <twb> I have a host running mod-php5, but I've locked it down as much as I could so it won't reflect the defaults
[07:59] <jmarsden> Or I think you could override it in .htaccess on a per-user basis
[07:59] <twb> jmarsden: assuming you leave .htaccess turned on :-)
[07:59] <jmarsden> Yes :)
[07:59] <SpamapS> keyboardtalk: if you want to run per-user php.. you'll want to look into something to keep them from attacking eachother. :)
[07:59] <luite> mod-php5 isn't terribly suitable for servers with multiple users anyway
[08:00]  * twb waves the "static HTML or GTFO" banner
[08:00] <SpamapS> chrooted fastcgi .. lxc containers.. whole vms.. just don't turn on mod_php for user dirs
[08:00] <keyboardtalk> Okay, thank you very much
[08:00] <twb> I hate fastcgi
[08:00] <twb> I'd rather just have an app server daemon speak HTTP to the reverse proxy "real" web server
[08:01] <luite> hmm, fastcgi has been working fine for me (for php), but it does eat a lot of memory
[08:01] <greppy> I've been liking fcgi and/or suphp for a while :)
[08:02] <luite> hehe I can't really say that I like it, but it works (mod-fcgid, suexec and fastcgi)
[08:02] <twb> luite: are you running an httpd on the same host, or are you running fastcgi over a trusted network?
[08:02] <luite> same host
[08:03] <twb> Yeah see I do that but I don't like it
 – <varnish> – <apache> – <fcgi app>
[08:03] <twb> I would prefer <user> – <varnish> – <http app>
[08:03] <keyboardtalk> Out of curiosity, what is the risk with enabling php for all users?
[08:03] <twb> keyboardtalk: that they'll use php
[08:04] <luite> keyboardtalk: all php scripts run under the same user id, so users can read each others php files
[08:04] <luite> keyboardtalk: (that's for mod-php for all users)
[08:05] <keyboardtalk> okay, good to know
[08:05] <SpamapS> twb: you can do that, just run your http app w/ mod_php ..why not?
[08:05] <twb> SpamapS: my app is written in C, not PHP
[08:05] <twb> At least this time it is
[08:05] <SpamapS> twb: In that case, libevent FTW
[08:06] <twb> SpamapS: how would that work?  I am talking to upstream about it this week
[08:06] <SpamapS> full http server code built in.. :)
[08:06] <twb> I've only ever seen libevent used in rxvt
[08:06] <luite> twb: I like it that apache tries to automatically starts the fastcgi apps, fewer things to watch :) , but I use apache reverse proxy for my non-php web apps
[08:06] <luite> (written in haskell)
[08:07] <SpamapS> twb: recent versions of libevent have evhttp.h ...
[08:07] <SpamapS> http://monkey.org/~provos/libevent/doxygen-1.4.3/
[08:07] <twb> luite: yeah, I am actually using apache not varnish, but that devalues my argument a little :-)
[08:07] <twb> SpamapS: neat
[08:07] <SpamapS> twb: you just register a callback per URI, and a default callback for dynamic URI's
[08:08] <twb> SpamapS: can I quote you (i.e. mail the scrollback to their list)?
[08:08] <twb> It'll save me paraphrasing
[08:08] <SpamapS> twb: sure, I'm just quoting from the docs
[08:09] <SpamapS> I played around with it a few months ago.. VERY easy to write an HTTP server
[08:13] <twb> I suppose it would be ironic if he switched to libevent and I couldn't get a new enough version into lucid
[08:14] <SpamapS> lucid is new enough
[08:14] <twb> Cool
[08:14]  * SpamapS shudders, recalling using CentOS 5's 4 year old libevent
[08:14] <SpamapS> which is now.. 7 years old I think
[08:15] <twb> That's odd... urxvt appears to not use libevent in sid, but I thought it did
[08:16] <SpamapS> weird that a gui terminal would use it
[08:16] <SpamapS> I guess it makes sense.. but seems a bit heavy
[08:18] <twb> Ah, here http://software.schmorp.de/pkg/libev.html
[08:18] <twb> "A full-featured and high-performance (see benchmark) event loop that is loosely modelled after libevent, but without its limitations and bugs."
[08:18] <twb> Nice and objective there schmorp :-)
[08:21] <luite> the same lib that's used by the framework that I'm using :) ( http://snapframework.com/ )
[08:21] <twb> luite: which, ev or event?
[08:21] <luite> ev
[08:21] <alex_21> Hi all,
[08:22] <alex_21> I am tring to clean everything off my server.
[08:22] <alex_21> I want to return to a minimal installation. Is there any command to do this?
[08:23] <twb> alex_21: markauto most/all packages that are not Section: metapackages
[08:23] <twb> This is not a perfect rollback, tho
[08:24] <alex_21> I want to completely reinstall everything, config and all without reinstalling Ubunut.
[08:24] <twb> You can't have that
[08:24] <twb> You can make it re-ask you most configuration options with "dpkg-reconfigure --all", but this is not the same.
[08:25] <twb> Nor it "aptitude reinstall ?installed"
[08:25] <twb> Feel free to try them anyway, once you have working backups.  I think it'll be easier to do a full reinstall.
[08:28] <SpamapS> alex_21: for the future, this is why configuration management helps.. :)
[08:29] <alex_21> How can I reconfigure ldap.
[08:29] <alex_21> ?
[08:40] <twb> Oh ldap
[08:40] <twb> you are totally fucked
[08:40] <twb> ldap HATES changes
[08:40] <twb> Especially if you're still using FDS or that other one.  OpenLDAP is a little better
[08:51] <alex_21> Allright guys. Thanks for the help. Reinstalling it is.
[08:51] <alex_21> Good night.
[08:58] <nickmoeck> Is there a reputable PPA with mysql 5.5 packages for lucid?
[09:06] <soren> nickmoeck: I *seriously* doubt it. It's not even in Debian experimental or Ubuntu Oneiric yet.
[09:07] <twb> Packaging mysql isn't exactly trivial
[09:11] <nickmoeck> You're kidding, right? MySQL 5.5 was released in December! How are there no packages for it yet?
[09:11] <nickmoeck> surely it doesn't take more than 6 months to package
[09:14] <twb> nickmoeck: well, are you helping?
[09:16] <nickmoeck> twb: obviously not, I don't really know much about packaging. But I would think for something as important as mysql, packages for the latest version would be made within 6 months of the release
[09:18] <twb> Well, *I'm* not helping because the sooner mysql dies the sooner people will switch to sqlite and postgres, which are IMO infinitely better suited to toy and production usage respectively
[09:19] <twb> You can make a shit package in an afternoon, but getting it release-quality is difficult, especially since, as you say, so much gank relies on mysql and thus so many people will complain if you screw it up.
[09:19] <twb> Or it could just be that the guy responsible for packaging mysql for Ubuntu has gotten a job or a girlfriend in the last six months...
[09:19] <lifeless> twb: I've put up a patch for doing i386 lxc's
[09:20] <twb> lifeless: hmm?
[09:20] <lifeless> twb: would be interesting to know if it would suit your needs
[09:20] <lifeless> twb: bug 798476
[09:21] <larsemil> old computer running md0 with lvm crashed. no i want to mount it on new hardware. It can find all volumegroups and logical volumes but it does not put them to /dev so that i can mount it. How do i import it? i am afraid vgimport does not work as it was not exported before old computer died.
[09:22] <twb> larsemil: lvm2 vgscan -ay?
[09:22] <twb> larsemil: something like that; last time I did it I RTFS'd the ramdisk to work out the details
[09:24] <larsemil> it finds it allright, but it does not make it mountable...
[09:25] <larsemil> twb: vgchange -ay was the solution
[09:25] <twb> good-o
[09:26] <larsemil> thanks for pointing me in the -ay direction!
[09:26] <twb> -ay means "bloody well do it" in LVM
[09:56] <phretor> any idea of why this error is occurring? http://paste.pocoo.org/show/416826/ "Exception during pm.DoInstall():  E:Internal Error, Could not perform immediate configuration (2) on util-linux" or how to solve it?
[11:05] <sarit> !paste | sarit
[11:37] <m3asmi> (98)Address already in use: make_sock: could not bind to address 0.0.0.0:80 !!
[12:01] <cloakable> m3asmi: There's something listening on port 80. Are you running a httpd already?
[12:02] <m3asmi> cloakble : I fix that problem
[12:03] <m3asmi> I ask about the :   The requested URL /www was not found on this server.
[13:54] <sommer> morning all
[15:23] <hallyn> oh man, ppa build started yesterday morning still hasn't started
[15:30] <ScottK> Heya sommer.
[15:34] <^^rcaskey> I've got an old server i'd like to get onoboard with automatic security updates. Just dist-upgraded to lucid, is there just a package i need to add or reconfigure?
[15:42] <zul> hallyn: around?
[15:43] <hallyn> zul: yeah, what's up?
[15:43] <zul> hallyn: we said we can drop the 9022-allows-lxc-containers-with-lxcguest.patch right?
[15:44] <hallyn> zul: are you doing 0.9.2?
[15:45] <zul> hallyn: yeah if we dont it needs to be rediffed
[15:45] <hallyn> you're pulling from sid, or upstream?
[15:45] <zul> sid
[15:46] <hallyn> zul: fetching.  But in any case, so long as it has the patch from upstream adding the LXC_UUID, then yes
[15:46] <zul> hallyn: ok ill drop it then
[15:46] <hallyn> though, hm
[15:46] <hallyn> zul: we'll have to make sure then that the lxcguest package for natty has the LIBVIRT_LXC_UUID fix
[15:47] <zul> you mean for oneiric
[15:48] <hallyn> zul: no
[15:48] <hallyn> zul: lxcguest runs in the guest, so natty guests on oneiric hosts will need to do the right thing
[15:49] <zul> hallyn: oh right
[15:49] <hallyn> zul: can you take care of SRU'ing that?  (i'ts not in natty, just checked)
[15:49] <zul> hallyn: yeah i can probably do that
[15:49] <hallyn> zul: cool, thanks.  Should just be able to cp debian/*.upstart from the oneiric version
[15:49] <hallyn> i'm getting my ass kicked by the lxc template stuff (trying to consolidate the templates into one)
[15:51] <zul> hallyn: heh sucks to be you when is a new version of lxc suppose to be out
[15:51] <hallyn> whenever dlezcano feels there's a new feature
[15:59] <hallyn> zul: heh, found my biggest problem - missing ':' after option in getopt.  doh
[15:59] <hallyn> new template is gonna rock
[15:59] <zul> hallyn: doh!
[16:01] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: when are we looking into having cobbler in main?
[16:02] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: ^^
[16:02] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx: We'll check on it start of next week i think
[16:02] <Monotoko> hey guys...I'm following this tutorial: https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/serverguide/C/postfix.html and when I try to connect I get kicked out by this: http://pastebin.com/WQ3e99Dq, what should be at "private/auth-client"?
[16:03] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: personally, i have no strong need for cobbler to be in main
[16:03] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: but i think Daviey and your team will probably need it so
[16:04] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: ok cool!
[16:04] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: thought orchestra was gonna have to be in Main by this cycle
[16:05] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: that's up to you guys
[16:05] <Monotoko> :(
[16:05] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland:  ok ;)
[16:22] <lynxman> ping Daviey
[16:23] <w00> Isn't that cute.. install munin wants to also put x11-common on my system ;/
[16:24] <Doonz> has anyone set up openvpn server in ubuntu 10.04
[16:26] <Riz> Doonz: yup
[16:32] <SpamapS> lynxman: generally nick: ping is more reliable.. some people (like me) don't have their name highlighted in all instances.. just when its the first word
[16:32] <SpamapS> Doonz: https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/openvpn.html
[16:33] <lynxman> SpamapS: will have that in mind, he normally replies though :)
[16:36] <Doonz> 1 sec damn work is getting in the way
[16:42] <medberry> SpamapS, ah, I've never heard of that setting/behavior. Probably comes in handy if you have a ubiquitous nick.
[16:42] <SpamapS> medberry: its the default in irssi
[16:47] <pmatulis> can one install a kvm guest running the devel release with vmbuilder?
[16:57] <Doonz> SpamapS: ive tried that guide a few times and it didnt work
[16:57] <Doonz> https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/network-configuration.html#bridging Ive tried following that guide but it wont bring up the bridged connection
[16:58] <ScottK> Doonz: Please file a bug with details against the ubuntu-docs project.
[16:58] <Doonz> its not a bug. just a stupid user trying to do something he doesnt know anything about
[16:58] <Doonz> :(
[16:59] <Doonz> https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/openvpn.html <-- im going to retry this guide and ill pastebin the errors
[17:04] <SpamapS> pmatulis: should be doable
[17:05] <pmatulis> SpamapS: do you know how?  i mean, is it done with hacking?
[17:05] <pmatulis> SpamapS: b/c suite=oneiric doesn't work if host is natty
[17:06] <Daviey> lynxman: sorry, was otp
[17:06] <SpamapS> pmatulis: not sure. I just use iso's + virt-manager. :-P
[17:06] <pmatulis> SpamapS: ok
[17:06] <lynxman> Daviey: no problem
[17:14] <Doonz> well its official im an idiot
[17:15] <Doonz> so anyone wanna set up openvpn server for me
[17:43] <Doonz> *sigh*
[17:44] <Doonz> heres what i get after i follown the openvpn guide http://pastebin.com/RUq5Mtup
[18:17] <maxo> I'm using Ubuntu Enterprise Cloud (Eucalyptus). If I terminate an instance, any configuration made is lost. How can one get round this problem?
[18:19] <lynxman> RoAkSoAx: ping
[18:22] <RoAkSoAx> lynxman: pong
[18:22] <fowlduck> We have an Intel Xeon E5645 and we're not seeing the 2 threads per core in lscpu, cat /proc/cpuinfo, etc, despite the processor being capable of hyperthreading. Is there a way to determine what features are supported by the kernel? I'd like to check if hyperthreading is enabled
[18:22] <fowlduck> btw, `uname -a` # => Linux 358015-domain 2.6.38-8-server #42-Ubuntu SMP Mon Apr 11 03:49:04 UTC 2011 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[18:25] <fowlduck> we're using a bare-metal host and we're trying to prove that the issue isn't with the OS (or fixing it if it is), so I can't exactly check the BIOS or anything
[18:34] <amero> i have a question about socks proxy server. for a socks server to be able to accept and forward incoming connections back to clients behind the proxy, what does it need to have?
[18:43] <SpamapS> fowlduck: if the CPU can do it, it should be in the flags in /proc/cpuinfo
[18:43] <SpamapS> fowlduck: it may still be disabled in the BIOS
[18:43] <SpamapS> fowlduck: I'd say 90% of workloads see no real benefit to HT
[18:44] <fowlduck> SpamapS: thanks for getting back to me, I got some help from the guys in #ubuntu-kernel on the problem
[18:45] <fowlduck> You're right, too. It seems to be disabled in the BIOS
[18:45] <fowlduck> despite the minimal performance improvements, we'd like to get the potential benefits if its available
[19:13] <RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: should postinst/postrm scripts call "service XYW restart" or similar? or should that be done with invoke.rc-d
[19:13] <RoAkSoAx> invoke-rc.d*
[19:13] <SpamapS> invoke-rc.d is the *only* way allowed
[19:14] <RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: that's what I thought! Thanks
[19:17] <rump> does rsyslogd miss anything besides apache on a default install?
[19:24] <pmatulis> i didn't know apache was part of the default install
[19:31] <RoyK> pmatulis: it isn't
[19:32] <pmatulis> RoyK: rump is mixed up
[19:51] <vooze> i just switched from debian til ubuntu-server (or trying to) but for some reason, the ubuntu 11.04 server CD cant see my main harddrive.. debian can just fine.. any ideas?
[19:57] <RoyK> vooze: sound strange - but just a thought - if you plan to setup a server, why don't you use an LTS release such as 10.04?
[19:57] <RoyK> 11.04 will only be supported for 18 months
[19:57] <RoyK> LTS server releases are supported for a full 5 years from release
[19:58] <Alfafa> Hi I haven't followed this channel. But you are aware that a aptitude full-upgrade today will pull in a lot of irrelevant packages? like firefox,synaptic etc..gui programs?
[19:59] <Alfafa> I also found a forum post from one experiencing the same http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1788159
[19:59] <RoyK> Alfafa: sometimes dependencies change - but really - if you don't have any graphical stuff installed, an apt-get dist-upgrade (I guess that's like aptitude full-upgrade) really shouldn't add much new
[19:59] <RoyK> Alfafa: which version?
[19:59] <Alfafa> It is 11.04
[20:00] <RoyK> 11.04 has a few dependency issues - I know
[20:00] <Alfafa> apt-get dist-upgrade does the same..pulling in gui stuff
[20:00]  * RoyK sticks to LTS releases for servers
[20:00] <Alfafa> Ok..I would just make sure someone knew :-)
[20:00] <vooze> RoyK: yeah, trying that now.. burning atm.
[20:00] <ScottK> Alfafa: No.  No it doesn't.  You added something.
[20:00] <RoyK> Alfafa: report a bug
[20:01] <ScottK> I've upgraded servers from 10.10 to 11.04 just fine.
[20:01] <RoyK> ScottK: the dependencies in 11.04 are rather patchy
[20:01]  * w00 same
[20:01] <ScottK> RoyK: Point to bugs please.
[20:01] <RoyK> I've just been testing on a test VM, and had lots of wierd issues
[20:01] <Alfafa> I didn't add something I ran a perfectly normal aptitude full-upgrade yesterday and today the same pull in a lot of gui packages not needed
[20:01] <ScottK> Alfafa: What does apt-get upgrade do?
[20:02] <RoyK> ScottK: so I just ditched the VM and let it go
[20:02] <ScottK> OK.
[20:02] <Alfafa> apt-get upgrade should work much better
[20:02] <Alfafa> but you wouldn't get kernel updates i believe by using that
[20:02] <RoyK> ScottK: upgrade to the latest version of packages within the distro version (say, 10.04.1), but it won't upgrade to 10.04.2 - dist-upgrade would
[20:02] <ScottK> Alfafa: OK.  How about apt-get dist-upgrade?
[20:03] <ScottK> RoyK: No.  That's wrong.
[20:03] <RoyK> sure?
[20:03] <ScottK> Yes.
[20:03] <ScottK> 10.04.2 is nothing more than all the updates released for 10.04 on a certain date.
[20:03] <RoyK> hm.. I thought it was a new subversion, slightly newer packages etc
[20:03] <ScottK> The difference between upgrade and dist-upgrade is that dist-upgrade will add/remove packages if needed and upgrade won't.
[20:03] <RoyK> never mind
[20:04] <ScottK> Generally in stable releases that just comes up with kernels that break ABI and need new package names.
[20:04] <RoyK> what's ABI?
[20:05] <ScottK> Application Binary Interface.
[20:05] <RoyK> k
[20:05] <ScottK> If the binary interface changes there are packages that need to be rebuilt against the newer ABI so they change the package name.
[20:05] <RoyK> I'm running 2.6.35 on my Lucid servers atm - haven't seen any issues there
[20:05] <ScottK> That means a kernel upgrade (if it breaks ABI) needs dist-upgrade.
[20:05] <RoyK> ah - IC
[20:05] <RoyK> thanks for the info
[20:06] <RoyK> I generally only use dist-upgrade, though
[20:06] <RoyK> guess that should be safe, then
[20:06] <Alfafa> I think it may be a new upgradedable package today which have a rather weird recommends. I can look at the packages it will upgrade to see which one of them pulls in the 57 new(mostly gui packages) packages
[20:06] <ScottK> Lucid was released with 2.6.32.21.22 and has 2.6.32.32.38 now.
[20:06] <ScottK> Every time the 4th number changes it's an ABI break and there's new binary packages.
[20:07] <RoyK> ScottK: there's a maverick backport of 2.6.35-25 in the repos
[20:07] <RoyK> ScottK: and that's recommended because of some bugs not fixable in 2.6.32
[20:07] <RoyK> (last I checked)
[20:07] <ScottK> It's got a completely different set of package names.
[20:07] <RoyK> dist-upgrade won't pull it, though, you'll have to apt-get install it
[20:07] <ScottK> I think it's recommended only if you're having issues with the normal one.
[20:08] <ScottK> My LTS servers are running the regular 2.6.32 with no problems.  YMMV.
[20:08] <RoyK> well, I just updated my boxes - all 20-odd servers are running 2.6.35 now without issues
[20:10] <Alfafa> ok..i think the bug is the recommends for language-pack-en-base which recommends firefox-locale-en which then depends on firefox maybe? but I am not sure..i believe aptitude full-upgrade sometimes install the recommended packages which apt-get upgrade doesn't?
[20:11] <ScottK> Perhaps.
[20:11] <ScottK> Let me look into it.
[20:11] <RoyK> vooze: any luck?
[20:13] <ScottK> Alfafa: I don't think that's part of the standard server install.
[20:15] <Alfafa> ScottK: Hmm..ok I will look into why it is there then
[20:22] <Alfafa> apt-get -s install apt-rdepends
[20:22] <Alfafa> sorry
[20:26] <lifeless> hallyn: SpamapS: thanks for your aid - this is what I have now - https://dev.launchpad.net/Running/LXC#preview
[20:29] <Alfafa> ScottK: Ok. Couldn't find any reasonable rdepends...so removed the language-pack* maybe it has been put in some time earlier (it has been upgraded to 11.04 and not reinstalled)
[20:30] <Alfafa> ScottK: Sorry for wasting your time
[20:30] <ScottK> No problem.
[20:30] <ScottK> Sometimes this is how you find out.
[20:30] <Alfafa> ScottK: I will just answer the other ones forum post..then somebody else can find it ;-)
[20:42] <RoyK> anyone around that knows a good L2 network discovery tool?
[21:11] <lifeless> SpamapS: hallyn: next fail point - fuse fails to install in the lxc
[21:13] <Daviey> lifeless: wow, that is a suprise.. fails to dpkg unpack/configure?
[21:13] <lifeless> Setting up fuse-utils (2.8.1-1.1ubuntu2) ...
[21:13] <lifeless> creating fuse group...
[21:13] <lifeless> mknod: `fuse-': Operation not permitted
[21:13] <lifeless> makedev fuse c 10 229 root root 0660: failed
[21:13] <lifeless> chgrp: cannot access `/dev/fuse': No such file or directory
[21:14] <SpamapS> lifeless: yeah you have to mknod outside of lxc IIRC
[21:14] <lifeless> SpamapS: where should I file the bug ?
[21:15] <SpamapS> hallyn: ^^ ?
[21:15] <lifeless> devpts fs doesn't help
[21:17] <lifeless> http://jtrancas.wordpress.com/2011/02/09/fuse-filesystems-lxc-container/ perhaps
[21:19] <Daviey> lifeless: looks like an lxc issue then... with the template.
[21:21] <lifeless> adding that stuff to the config seems to be enough
[21:23] <lifeless> bug 800886
[21:23] <RoyK> bug 1
[21:23] <Daviey> timeout \o/
[21:23] <RoyK> hm...
[21:23] <Daviey> i'm wrong!
[21:24] <Daviey> thanks lifeless
[21:25] <RoyK> this pool is FAST http://paste.ubuntu.com/630972/ :D
[21:26] <hallyn> lifeless: SpamapS: no bug.  edit the container's config (/var/lib/lxc/<container>/config) and add a devices whitelist eception for /dev/fuse
[21:27] <Daviey> hallyn: can we not ship that?
[21:27] <hallyn> Daviey: we shouldn't.
[21:27] <Daviey> hallyn: oh?
[21:27] <lifeless> hallyn: why not ?
[21:27] <hallyn> bc we pretend containers aren't 100% unsafe as is :)
[21:27] <lifeless> hallyn: could we ship an option
[21:28] <lifeless> hallyn: so folk don't go off of random internet sites like I just did.
[21:28] <hallyn> lifeless: right, just add the option to the config
[21:28] <hallyn> lifeless: no problem, the lp bug shoudl steer people :)
[21:28] <hallyn> where is that link you pasted before
[21:29] <lifeless>  http://jtrancas.wordpress.com/2011/02/09/fuse-filesystems-lxc-container/
[21:29] <hallyn> ah there it is
[21:29] <lifeless> seems to be for udev
[21:29] <lifeless> so perhaps not relevant to lucid
[21:29] <hallyn> lifeless: thx :)
[21:29] <Daviey> hallyn: I wonder if handling the fuse failure could be better handled in the fuse package giving reasoning for failure, and suggesting uncommenting it on the config?
[21:29] <Daviey> (ship it commented out?)
[21:29] <hallyn> Daviey: could be
[21:30] <lifeless> whats the security issue with this?
[21:30] <hallyn> presumably it allows the conatiner to load arbitrary fuse filesystems?  and abuse any holes which might exist in the /dev/fuse api
[21:31] <hallyn> security issue is just 'a big blog tying into the kernel'
[21:31] <lifeless> but fs's are contained
[21:31] <hallyn> maybe i'm being unreasonably, i dunno
[21:31] <lifeless> if fuse is unsafe
[21:31] <hallyn> contained by what?
[21:31] <lifeless> I thought they were namespaced ?
[21:32] <hallyn> that's not the angle i'm worried about,
[21:32] <hallyn> it's that the kernel is calling out to functions in userspace,
[21:32] <hallyn> and the container is writing those functions
[21:32] <Daviey> I love the fact that fuse is a userspace implementation for filesystems... and yet, we are still blocked on the kernel module :)
[21:32] <lifeless> right...
[21:32] <lifeless> but that doesn't seem intrinsically insecure
[21:32] <hallyn> it's intrinsically fragile
[21:32] <lifeless> as long as the kernel doesn't trust the userspace implementation blindly
[21:33] <hallyn> lifeless: it's the same reason why we want to sandbox containers so that any fo the 100 newest syscalls can't be used :)
[21:33]  * lifeless would like to not need fuse, but is installing gnome inside the lxc container :(
[21:33] <Daviey> lifeless: you sir, are a crazy man.
[21:33] <hallyn> lifeless: well again, containers aren't secure to begin with,
[21:33] <lifeless> Daviey: windmill tests
[21:33] <lifeless> Daviey: for LP
[21:33] <hallyn> lifeless: so i don't want to make it too hard.  But is adding that entry to the config too much?
[21:33] <Daviey> lifeless: interesting!
[21:34] <lifeless> Daviey: https://dev.launchpad.net/Running/LXC
[21:34] <Daviey> hallyn: it seems a discoverability issue
[21:34] <lifeless> hallyn: well, the less it Just Works
[21:34] <hallyn> ypu
[21:34] <hallyn> yup
[21:34] <lifeless> hallyn: the harder it is to use.
[21:34] <lifeless> hallyn: so I accept that if there is an issue, we shouldn't do it.
[21:34] <hallyn> Daviey: so being a discoverability issue, i'd lean toward fiing it in fuse-utils
[21:34] <lifeless> hallyn: but I'd rather concrete 'we need to do X to fix it' objections rather than 'it might break'.
[21:35] <hallyn> lifeless: the issue will become more meaningful when we have user namespaces.  I just don't want toopen all the doors in the meantime so that then user namespaces will be worthless
[21:35] <lifeless> hallyn: wearing my obstinate user hat rather firmly.
[21:35] <lifeless> hallyn: anyhow - that wiki page I just linked documents doing the home bindmount
[21:35] <Daviey> lifeless: So are you thinking of doing this to integrate with the tarmac pre land testing?
[21:35] <lifeless> hallyn: the one bit I'm missing is user mirroring
[21:35] <hallyn> lifeless: maybe we should as on #ubuntu-hardened how safe they feel with /dev/fuse API.  I know little
[21:35] <lifeless> Daviey: we don't use tarmac :) - and no.
[21:35] <hallyn> lifeless: you can use the lxc-ubuntu template I linked to in the bug
[21:36] <lifeless> Daviey: doing it to have less memory footprint than the lucid VM I currently use.
[21:36] <hallyn> lifeless: let me post some debs actually to people.canonical.com, one sec
[21:36] <Daviey> lifeless: oh right
[21:37] <hallyn> lifeless: http://people.canonical.com/~serge/lxc_0.7.4-0ubuntu7.1clone3_amd64.deb
[21:38] <hallyn> lifeless: with that deb, you can do 'lxc-create -t natty -n natty -f /etc/lxc.conf -- -b lifeless
[21:38] <hallyn> and user lifeless will be bind-mounted and created in the container
[21:38] <lifeless> wicked
[21:38] <hallyn> it also supports '-a i386'
[21:38] <lifeless> nice
[21:38] <lifeless> that will be in oneiric?
[21:38] <hallyn> yeah, unless it hits resistence upstream (unlikely for this)
[21:39] <hallyn> lifeless: actually yo uneed to add '-r natty', as the default container is lucid
[21:40] <lifeless> hallyn: well, I want lucid :)
[21:40] <hallyn> lifeless: excellent :)
[21:40] <lifeless> hallyn: launchpad.net deploys on lucid
[21:40] <hallyn> lifeless: then until lp gets aroudn to compiling the ubuntu-virt ppa's lxc, you'll need to add '-x' to trim the container (as it can't install the lxcguest package)
[21:41] <lifeless> lxcguest ?
[21:41] <hallyn> oh yay, it built
[21:41] <Daviey> hallyn: Hmm, i don't think lifeless wants to deploy in lxc... just devel
[21:41] <hallyn> lifeless: yes, lxcguest works around some blotches where upstart can't deal with not beign on hardwrae
[21:41] <hallyn> Daviey: so?
[21:41] <lifeless> hallyn: so I should install that in my lucid guest ?
[21:42] <lifeless> $ apt-cache show lxcguest
[21:42] <lifeless> W: Unable to locate package lxcguest
[21:42] <lifeless> E: No packages found
[21:42] <hallyn> lifeless: only if you want it to be safe across udev upgrades
[21:42] <hallyn> right, it comes from ppa:ubuntu-virt/ppa.  It's in natty and oneiric, but not lucid and maverick
[21:42] <lifeless> hallyn: is it needed for lucid?
[21:42] <Daviey> hallyn: Ahh.. i missunderstood "then until lp gets aroudn to compiling the ubuntu-virt ppa's lxc
[21:42] <hallyn> not if you create a trimmed container (which the lxc-lucid template did, and which the new template does if you add -x)
[21:43] <hallyn> Daviey: oh yeah, it just took over 24 hrs for it to get around to it
[21:43] <hallyn> lifeless: are these 'run and delete' contaienrs?
[21:43] <lifeless> hardware testing have solten all the builders
[21:43] <lifeless> hallyn: nope
[21:43] <hallyn> you're going to keep themaround and upgrade?
[21:43] <lifeless> hallyn: we install a GB of dependencies
[21:43] <lifeless> so i doubt folk will treat them as transient things
[21:43] <hallyn> then yeah, use lxcguest
[21:44] <Daviey> hallyn: You know, having someone on the launchpad team that wants to use a package from a PPA oddly increases it's build time :)
[21:44] <lifeless> let me know when its available for lucid?
[21:44] <hallyn> it does things like bind-mount an empty fiel over /lib/init/fstab, so that if mountall/udev gets updated it still boots
[21:44] <Daviey> (err, decreases)
[21:44] <hallyn> lifeless: it's available now in the ubuntu-virt ppa
[21:44] <hallyn> lifeless: it must have just compiled
[21:45] <hallyn> lifeless: I assume there is no way to add that package into the official lucid  archive at this late date
[21:45] <lifeless> hallyn: sure you can, its not trivial but it is doable
[21:45] <lifeless> lxcguest wants to futz with /etc/init/console.conf
[21:46] <hallyn> lifeless: that file only exists bc the lxc-lucid template created it
[21:46] <lifeless> ok, so I
[21:46] <hallyn> so yes, the idea is the template doesn't change the container, you just run lxcguest in a plain VM, then you can boot it either in kvm or a container
[21:46] <hallyn> no changes
[21:47] <Daviey> hallyn: backports baby!
[21:47] <hallyn> Daviey: well, it's in ubuntu-virt ppa...
[21:47] <hallyn> i thought that was a reasonably official place to put it
[21:47] <lifeless>  https://dev.launchpad.net/Running/LXC#preview now with lxcguest info
[21:47]  * Daviey watchs hallyn stir the beehive of PPA's vs Backports.
[21:49] <hallyn> lifeless: I just want to get my lxc-lvmcreate script back itno my pacakge, then I will push it to ppa:serge-hallyn/lxc-natty and blog about how to use it to do the arch and home bind mounting
[21:50] <lifeless> hallyn: let me know as things improve and become accessible, I'll happily update this wiki page
[21:51] <hallyn> lifeless: great,thanks
[21:51] <hallyn> jdstrand: kees: does one of you have any input on the safety and sanity of the api used with /dev/fuse?
[21:51] <hallyn> (regarding bug 800886)
[21:52] <hallyn> if you gusy tell me it's safe, I'll just add it to the whitelist int he template
[21:52]  * jdstrand does not otoh, but I am going to point mdeslaur at this too (who might have more up to date info) ^
[21:53] <hallyn> cool, thanks.  yeah i just meant top of head.  if research is required i'll go read the code.
[21:54] <kees> hallyn: my understanding is that the fuse perms are checked at the kernel level.
[21:54] <kees> hallyn: I haven't though much about how that might behave with a container, though.
[21:54] <kees> in _theory_, it should be fine, but I've never tested it
[21:55] <hallyn> kees: oh i wasn't even thinking about uid translations over namespaces.  (that'll be my job :)
[21:55] <hallyn> kees: I'm wondering how... 'rich' the API over /dev/fuse is.  Do you trust people who connect to it?
[21:56] <hallyn> kees: or does it have a small, ilmited API that I can sort of trust
[21:56] <hallyn> by 'do you trust people' i meant 'do you *have* to trust people'
[22:02] <kees> hallyn: well, it's designed for non-root users, but I haven't spent any time auditing it.
[22:02] <hallyn> kees: so it's world writeable usually?
[22:03] <hallyn> so it is
[22:03] <kees> hallyn: yes
[22:03] <hallyn> so why would i worry about it
[22:03] <hallyn> kees: thx :)
[22:03] <kees> heh, np
[22:03] <hallyn> of course,
[22:03] <hallyn> i assume th kernel code checks uids.  but again that just means its up to me to clean that up when time comes
[22:03] <hallyn> neaty
[22:03] <hallyn> neato, even
[22:05] <lifeless> \o/
[22:22] <hallyn> gah, i *still* haven't asked for lxc upload perms
[22:22] <hallyn> zul: can you help a brother out? :)
[22:24] <hallyn> Daviey: still there?
[22:26] <hallyn> Daviey: could you push http://people.canonical.com/~serge/lxc_0.7.4-0ubuntu11/lxc_0.7.4-0ubuntu11.dsc   for me?
[22:29] <huats> hallyn, is it just uploading it ?
[22:29] <huats> or do you need anything special on it ?
[22:29] <huats> (well you mean to ubuntu just to be sure)
[22:30] <huats> (I am asking if the great Daviey is not around)
[22:32] <hallyn> huats: yeah, just uploading it
[23:30]  * SpamapS shouts "CHOO CHOOO" after riding the sl train