[00:26] http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-20072845-264/google-building-skype-alike-software-into-chrome/ [00:26] look interesting...plus as Google claim that WebRTC is open-source/royalty-free too, so I guess Empathy'll support this too if licence permits? [00:38] so wait, what is this text relay thing supposed to actually do? [00:39] ali1234, what it does? you mean how it works? [00:39] what it does, and what exactly it achieves [00:39] OK [00:39] and how it works [00:39] Being deaf it mean I can't hear a telephone. Even if I could hear it, I still can't make it out - all voices are just random noises to me [00:39] So I can't use a telephone. [00:39] ok [00:40] With a text relay, there is a 3rd party operator. In UK - I dial any number with 18001 prefix [00:40] this prefix mean it automatically goes to Text Relay (www.textrelay.org) and then dial the usual number I put in after 18001 [00:41] once it get thru, there's another delay while I wait for an operator to become available (mostly short times...) [00:42] depending on the person I'm calling - they might have run out of patience and hung up on me and I'll have to redial or if it's a call centre, wait until the message repeat ;) [00:42] ok i get this part [00:42] the operator's job is to act as a relay...I type to the operator using a text phone. in text. [00:42] The operator then speak what I type to the person I'm calling. [00:42] yes, and then they type out the reply to you [00:42] The person speak to the operator and the operator relay it to me by typing [00:42] this part i understand [00:43] so, why do you need a modem dial out? [00:43] A video relay does the same thing except that it use BSL (British Sign Language) [00:43] yeah, i saw a link to sign language video relay the other day, was it from you? [00:43] modem - ok the current technology is that I have to use a rather old minicom (textphone) plugged into phone line to make calls. [00:44] yeah that was me - they wanted android app devs so I thought someone here might be interested [00:44] ah yeah that was it [00:44] ok [00:44] however if I'm outside of the house - I can't use text relay [00:44] it doesn't work on mobiles [00:44] gotcha [00:44] that sucks :( [00:44] *must* have a landline with a operator that support the 18001 prefix (most does now) [00:45] it sucks cos there's no reason why it can't work... any mobile phone can do modem calls [00:45] so I was thinking of setting up a computer with modem...ssh in if I want to make calls etc. [00:45] so what you actually need is a piece of software that emulates textphone and runs on linux console [00:46] or is textphone just a standard dumb terminal? [00:46] ali1234, it could...but you'll need a laptop with the necessary software to use the mobile as a modem and then support the communication protocol that the text relay use. [00:46] nah [00:47] i bet a N900 could do this standalone if the 18000 prefixes worked from mobile operators [00:47] a textphone is basically a minicom unit that use the Baudot or V18 protocol [00:47] The old Nokia Communicators was certainly capable of it. [00:47] and it use sound to transmit [00:48] JGJones: probably could rig something up with VOIP and asterisk [00:48] anyone have an understanding of openpgp? [00:48] you don't need asterisk or voip for this [00:48] yes...it make a series of loud beeping noise...thankfully newer units now just plug direct into the line. [00:48] oh ok then :p [00:48] all you need is minicom/picocom and a modem === GingeryDog is now known as GingerDog [00:49] like how we used to connect to BBS in the old days [00:49] To be honest I DON'T want to do this, but because the Government is cutting Access to Work fund, I need to seek "cheaper" alternatives just in case [00:49] Core_UK: depends what aspects [00:49] Access to Work was actually designed for one off lump sums - ie person in wheel chair - pay for a ramp etc. [00:49] well the cheaper alternative is just stop using telephone calls and use IM instead [00:49] JGJones: funny enough, I actually know a couple deaf guys who use android [00:50] however for deaf people - it's ongoing support costs that's a drain. [00:50] Azelphur, to do what? (got Android myself :)) [00:50] JGJones: mostly text based communication [00:50] the deaf guys I know just rely heavily on SMS [00:51] webpigeon: If I sign my mail with my openPGP key how do people know it is me? [00:51] I sent a test mail and it only showed an attachment with random letters/numbers [00:51] Azelphur, I've actually had a mobile since 1999 - for SMS then. [00:51] Core_UK: you publish the key on known keyservers [00:51] hehe :) [00:52] webpigeon: i see [00:52] Azelphur, rather expensive then. Got even more expensive with 3G video calling about 10 years ago... [00:52] Core_UK: then a pgp aware client can work out if the signed message is signed with your private key using your published public key [00:52] Azelphur, now - with android/iOS - there's whatsapp, google talk, Tango (video chat), facetime etc etc so it's getting easier. [00:52] Blackberry are surprisingly very popular among the deaf due to BBM. [00:52] :) [00:52] GSM data calls from 3G mobiles are rather expensive so an Ip based dialout service is going to be cheapest [00:53] JGJones: I love gtalk with android, I use it a lot :D [00:53] Azelphur, now with a tablet, I use Gtalk for video chat too [00:53] JGJones: you hear gtalk video chat is coming to phones too soon? [00:53] webpigeon: do you know if I could send an email to a person so only they could see using openpgp? [00:53] n900 already has it [00:53] Azelphur: ^ [00:54] skype video too, for like a year now [00:54] yea, n900 is kinda abandoned now though [00:54] it was abandoned at birth [00:54] it still works as good today as it did then [00:54] indeed :( [00:54] as a skype wifi phone you can't beat it [00:54] Core_UK: if you have their public key, you can encrypt your message using their public key and the person has to have the private key to decrypt it [00:54] the built in skype works better than the PC client does even on windows [00:55] webpigeon: ok great, thanks :) [00:55] JGJones: is there like a loopback textphone test service? [00:57] Wonder if you could replace it with a speach to text & text to speech system on a box somewhere :/ [00:57] the hardest thing about setting this up is going to be finding a modem with drivers that still work on a recent linux [00:57] ali1234: most modems are really dumb? [00:57] not any more [00:57] awww :( [00:57] most modems are now softmodems [00:57] = winmodems [00:57] loads of them don't work [00:58] winmodems = lose :( [00:58] and nobody cares because nobody uses modems any more [00:58] although i just remembered i have a couple of standalone serial modems [00:58] ali1234: if that were true we'd not be having this convosation :P [01:00] hey what's this on textrelay.org [01:00] http://www.texbox.co.uk/ [01:00] ali1234, I don't think there's a loopback service [01:01] is there some automated phone line that i can ring without annoying anyone? [01:01] hmm [01:01] I can plug in my minicom and enable it to autoanswer [01:01] could try that tomorrow [01:01] you should get a message from it "caller not at home, leave a message GA" something like that [01:01] or some time [01:02] communication protocol for minicoms are in baudcot or V18 as far as I can remember [01:02] internet says v.18 [01:02] my biggest issue really for me is having someone call me. [01:03] how does that fit in? [01:03] I never give out my number, I can't answer voice calls. [01:03] ok, so why would anyone call you? [01:04] if I used text relay exclusively, then my number would be 1800201234567890 [01:04] 18002 is the prefix for a hearing person to call someone deaf via text relay [01:04] as for why would anyone call me - cos they love me :) [01:04] but... ok [01:04] seriously - I'll like to start a business :) [01:04] so someone calls you using the relay [01:04] your modem answers and gets the text [01:05] and sends it to your mobile over jabber [01:05] and obviously having a number for someone to call is a no-brainer for any businesses [01:05] jabber...hmm...sound great.... [01:06] the whole thing can be done over jabber [01:06] in fact someone probably already did it [01:06] currently I'm use a London based number with a 4 digit extension for people to call me - this goes to SignVideo actually (hence london number) and leave a message [01:06] hell, it's probably how that texbox product works [01:08] texbox - it's usually used by councils etc [01:09] for example Bristol - http://goo.gl/8M76X [01:09] http://code.google.com/p/jabber-terminal/ [01:09] ^ that's pretty much all you need [01:09] one issue with jabber.... [01:10] I assume that incoming calls would be automatically answered and goes onto jabber? [01:10] no [01:10] no? [01:10] an incoming call would cause the terminal emulator to emit "RINGRING" message [01:10] which would then go to you over jabber [01:10] you would need to type 'ATA' to make the modem answer [01:10] Ah...that would work... [01:11] the devil is of course in the detail but i think this is very much doable [01:11] just need a jabber client that would actually make my phone vibrate the hell out of my pants instead of 2 brief vibrate I get [01:11] yeah that too [01:11] details :) [01:11] but yeah...details... [01:12] I could also make calls using jabber too... [01:12] yeah just "ATDT18001....." [01:12] would be perfect as an alternative solution [01:13] this all hinges on whether a normal modem and terminal emulator can act like a textphone. but i see no reason why it can't [01:13] It can - well at least on Windows, you could use any modem with Hyperterminal [01:13] well if hyperterminal can do it then linux can do it for sure [01:13] to use typetalk [01:14] text relay (typetalk's the old name for it) [01:14] some other chap earlier on mentioned cutecom [01:14] !cutecom [01:14] !package cutecom [01:14] !info cutecom [01:14] cutecom (source: cutecom): Graphical serial terminal, like minicom. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.22.0-2 (natty), package size 53 kB, installed size 204 kB [01:15] yeah you don't want a graphical one for this [01:15] damned bots [01:15] you want a text console only one, so it can be forwarded over jabber/xmpp [01:15] !info minicom [01:15] minicom (source: minicom): friendly menu driven serial communication program. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.5-1 (natty), package size 278 kB, installed size 1164 kB [01:15] like that one? [01:15] so minicom, picocom, microcom, maybe even cu [01:16] ali1234: or a software interface which can talk telepathy? [01:16] maybe even a direct jabber-tty bridge would be even better [01:16] webpigeon: yeah ^ [01:16] that would involve coding though :) [01:16] true [01:16] Wonder if there is a tty library for c/c++ :/ [01:16] prototype it with jabber-terminal and see what problems you hit, then you'll know what not to do if you implement it directly [01:17] programming tty is trivial [01:17] never done it [01:17] you've never used stdout? [01:17] yeah, but that's just an output stream [01:18] that's all a tty is [01:18] input stream, output stream [01:18] \o/ [01:18] so to forward it over telepathy is pretty trivial then, and considering telepathy will do the jabber stuff... [01:18] sure [01:19] why hasn't anyone done that :/ [01:19] well jabber-terminal pretty much has [01:19] goodo [01:19] cos there's not many deaf people using linux :) [01:20] i mean it's basiclly just echoing input and output over jabber [01:21] there's a guy in this channel who has a highlight set on jabber and xmpp... one of the matt* guys i think [01:21] MattJ [01:21] he seems to know a lot about jabber anyway, can probably give some useful advice [01:21] Jabber \o/ (rebbaj as well if he's not removed it) [01:22] next time i decide to type telepathy into google and expect meaningful results - :/ [01:22] although that is my 3rd year project :P [01:24] wow i just found out there is something called "ToIP" [01:24] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text_over_IP [01:25] text over IRC :P [01:27] ali1234, ToIP - it's actually real-time text [01:27] yeah [01:28] connect irc.anonops.li [01:28] not like IRC - type a sentence, click send etc. Instead each character is sent instanstly. [01:28] i found a page where there's a bio of a guy who apparently works on tty-toip bridges for cisco [01:28] tty is real time too [01:28] jabber is not [01:28] that could be a problem [01:29] send and recv on end of line markers? [01:29] assuming it has them... [01:29] jabber does, yeah [01:29] splits messages into packets [01:29] ali1234, the difference between tty and ToIP is that...when I am typing in textphone, the other end cannot interrupt etc. [01:29] but if the person does not hit enter after typing a line [01:29] then you won't see it [01:30] real time - both person can type and both see characters etc instantly [01:30] i would guess that is just a limitation of the textphone interface [01:30] JGJones: when you get messages on your text phone, do they appear char by char or as lines [01:31] webpigeon, yes char by char [01:31] ah I see [01:31] but you can't type anything until they've finished [01:31] so there must be some kind of finished signal then? [01:31] ToIP allow for two way real time conversation [01:31] no [01:32] I think it's more that the protocol is so slow, it's not easy to interrupt [01:32] (and that on a minicom I have a single line of text display) [01:32] ah, okies [01:33] a bit like calling call centres? [01:33] ali1234: that might be a problem then (if you can't tell when a message has finsihed, you can't foward it on to jabber) [01:33] press 1 for annoying twat and music, press 2 for more crap, press 3 fo......press 32351 for others [01:34] on a minicom I have to WAIT until they've relayed the entire thing. [01:34] :/ [01:34] ToIP would mean I could just say 2 GA and be done with it. [01:34] GA = it's a shortcut on text conversations, just mean "Go Ahead, your turn" [01:35] so there is a kind of unoffical end of message? [01:35] when you've done your waffle - GA at end for next person's turn [01:36] like \r\n in irc messages [01:36] okay, apples and oranges [01:36] it's pretty much the official textphone-speak to use GA at end of your speak as it let the other person that they can finally start typing. [01:37] and when the call is finished - SKSK (Stop Keying) [01:37] So it could use it as a signal to send the message to jabber? [01:37] well if I was typing in jabber I would just say "hello how are you, it's joe here ga" [01:38] they reply....ga [01:38] yeah I won the lottery, gonna buy the moon ga [01:38] they reply...ga [01:38] exactly [01:38] and so on [01:38] sometime a bad habit...when I started using IM, I kept using ga all the time. [01:39] I was just thinking from a technical point of view, as to how to tell that it was time to send the message (because you can't send letter by letter) [01:39] yeah...ga/sksk was used because even though a minicom might do it letter by letter you still couldn't get a letter in while the other party is talking [01:39] 1 way [01:40] I see [01:41] ok i need to get back to my excel spreadsheet [01:41] but some time i'll look into this [01:42] Yeah, I should probably sleep, but it seems like it's something very do-able [01:45] sleep? what's that? [01:45] !info sleep [01:45] Package sleep does not exist in natty [01:45] thought so. [01:57] good night ! how are you ? === mar_33 is now known as xx23 [07:52] morning all [08:00] Morning AlanBell, Morning all [08:24] Morning. [08:30] Is it possible for HMG be more incompetent? http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/the-tony-collins-blog/2011/06/officials-write-off-874000-on-rushed-website/index.htm [08:34] I'd like to make £800k on a website [08:34] I can't believe we (UKGov) are just _so_ rubbish. [08:34] TheOpenSourcerer: Dutch gov isn't much better [08:34] ~£1m on a website! that didn't bloody work. [08:35] Not only that but rather than getting the money back from the suppliers they just write it off. [08:35] We've had several multi-million migrations to new systems cancelled because the new system didn't work [08:35] yeah, they are scared of their suppliers because the suppliers will sue them [08:36] because the suppliers get paid so much they can afford masses of lawyers [08:37] hmm, home office thing [08:38] * AlanBell is presenting a proposal at the home office next week [08:38] Might want to tell them that websites don't generally cost nearly a million. [08:38] TheOpenSourcerer: or I might want to put the price up [08:38] by £874,000 [08:40] I also wonder what "rushed" implies? The story indicated the project went live in 2007 and crashed repeatedly until 2009. What's rushed about that nit? [08:40] s/nit/bit [08:49] hiya [08:49] TheOpenSourcerer: governments think in 4-5 year increments [08:49] TheOpenSourcerer: <4 = rushed [08:55] hello all [08:55] howdy MooDoo [08:55] :) [09:05] Morning all [09:07] DJones: morning [09:13] Hi MooDoo [09:13] morning allhay hay [09:13] oops [09:17] lol: http://techbuket.net/376 [09:18] very good [09:29] !lococouncil [09:29] lol oops wrong channel [09:34] Morning all [09:34] morning popey [09:34] TheOpenSourcerer: that story is depressing [09:38] Good Morning! :) [09:38] http://paulmellors.blogspot.com/2011/06/loco-council-meeting.html [09:38] MooDoo: good summary, bung that to the list as well [09:39] thanks will do [09:39] and s/post/pre/ [09:39] my employer thinks that teaming up with big suppliers means they are experts and it will be a success. my experience is that i've ended up training those guys myself [09:39] oimon: they are experts, but not experts at doing the job [09:40] they are experts at getting the job [09:40] AlanBell: ok post corrected thanks [09:41] MooDoo: "their" [09:41] not "our"? [09:41] arrrggghhh :) === bigcalm_ is now known as bigcalm [09:43] popey: ah i get you :) [09:43] Morning [09:43] i think i'll change that sentence : [09:44] the last sentence [09:45] I've changed it. [09:45] gotcha [09:50] "Out for delivery" [09:50] * bigcalm stares out of the window for the rest of the day [09:51] bigcalm: awwwwwww ;) [09:51] * DJones throws an egg at the window ....Splat [09:53] 23:03:24 < bigcalm> popey: know if we can add DNS entries on the superhub? [09:53] no idea [09:55] morning [09:55] morning czajkowski [09:55] o/ czajkowski [09:55] MooDoo: nice blog post [09:55] czajkowski: thanks [09:56] MooDoo: you do know anyone from any team can come to a loco council meeting at any time and raise issues? not just for re approvals ? [09:56] * daubers waits for wiki.ubuntu.com to sign me in [09:56] This make my wife happy, ITV have released a player app for Android [09:56] czajkowski: i'm still learning ;) i do now :D [09:56] DJones: \o/ I'm getting 1 android phones in the next 2 weeks [09:56] MooDoo: no tis cool, many people don't realise that [09:57] s/1/2/ [09:57] daubers: http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/40651/itv-player-app-lands-on-android [09:57] you don't have to be a loco contact to attend and voice stuff except when we're voting or discussing a team [09:57] but people can raise issues and add to the agenda [09:57] popey: I have to either add host entries to the router or the tablet. Without rooting the tablet, not sure that's possible [09:58] czajkowski: all interesting stuff :D [09:58] bigcalm: Or get your router to hand out dns addresses to a different DNS server [09:59] daubers: indeed, but I haven't found an option to add or edit DNS server IPs [09:59] :-/ [09:59] VM suck [09:59] In this instance, yes [10:00] I thought that was the general case? [10:00] That said, the replacement modem/router hasn't dropped my connection since insterlation [10:00] BigRedS: Personally I believe it is [10:01] morning all [10:01] davmor2: morning [10:02] MooDoo: 'ow you diddling [10:02] davmor2: crackin lad [10:03] *sigh* _still_ "Waiting for wiki.ubuntu.com" [10:04] MooDoo: is it just me or do you automatically hear Wallace's voice when you read the Crackin' and do you also expect to hear "Cheese Gromit" after it [10:04] [Paul Mellors] LoCo Council Meeting - http://paulmellors.blogspot.com/2011/06/loco-council-meeting.html [10:04] davmor2: that's what i think when i say it :D nice bit of wendleydale [10:05] MooDoo: :D [10:05] Ooooh.... cheese [10:06] * davmor2 prods czajkowski to see if she's with us [10:06] * czajkowski rolls over and goes back to sleep [10:07] czajkowski: that's what you get for having mass so late : [10:07] :P [10:16] My better half has the day off and tweeted "But a day off at home comes with tea-fairy duties!" [10:16] Damn straight it does! [10:17] bigcalm: oh yeah! [10:17] lol [10:17] Tesco have sold out of £20 off kindles :( [10:19] I'm more & more tempted by a Kindle, although can't decide whether the extra £40 for 3G is worth it, its not as if its a tablet that I'd use for web access [10:19] Laney: Have you got a link for the offer so I can have a look [10:20] why would you ever need 3g on a kindle? [10:20] buying books abroad [10:20] using internet when not at home [10:20] when sat in an airport [10:20] lots of reasons [10:20] DJones: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/deals/cheap-ebook-readers-kindles#kindle [10:20] I'd agree with the downloading books when not at home/near a wifi station [10:20] try tomorrow morning I guess [10:20] all of which can be combated by waiting five minutes until you find wifi [10:20] popey: I just load my e-book reader with 200 books -- I'll run out of battery before I run out of books to read :) [10:20] or if you have your phone and your phone does tethering [10:20] gord: airport wifi is almost always pay-for [10:21] \o/ tethering [10:21] and I go plenty of places where there is no wifi [10:21] e.g. daughters ballet school [10:21] sit there for an hour bored out of my skull [10:21] I'm hardly ever in range of usable free wifi when away from home/work [10:21] or, go online via 3g [10:21] annoying dublin airport you pay for wifi [10:21] shannon small ickle airport free [10:22] * daubers kicks wiki.ubuntu.com and gives up [10:22] i'm just saying that i'v had my kindle for about a year and not once have i thought "i need an internet connection on this right now" [10:22] people in different use cases non-shocker [10:23] although, apparently there's colour e-ink displays now [10:23] maybe this is a ploy to dump old stock :-O [10:23] daubers: oooo it is slow isn't it [10:24] although having said that, i haven't actually touched my kindle since I got an ipad [10:25] not heard of any colour e-ink devices yet, maybe i'm out of the loop, every "ereader" (that i have seen for the pedantic peoples) labelled as colour has been an lcd display [10:25] fiver and a packet of salt n shake for it? [10:25] oooo [10:25] tempting [10:25] I _love_ salt n shake [10:25] popey: They _will_ blend! [10:25] little blue salt bag :D [10:25] I'll probably take it on holiday in Aug and then get rid [10:26] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAl28d6tbko [10:26] https://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/08/technology/08ink.html [10:31] daubers: i HATE that man and blend site.....grrrrrr [10:32] MooDoo: I love it [10:32] ! [10:32] Destroying stuff is what the interwebs is for! [10:32] daubers: not when you want stuff he's blending....what a waste [10:32] MooDoo: but I want the blender :( [10:33] lol [10:33] Or this [10:33] http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200622592260&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123 [10:34]