[00:26] <JGJones> http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-20072845-264/google-building-skype-alike-software-into-chrome/
[00:26] <JGJones> look interesting...plus as Google claim that WebRTC is open-source/royalty-free too, so I guess Empathy'll support this too if licence permits?
[00:38] <ali1234> so wait, what is this text relay thing supposed to actually do?
[00:39] <JGJones> ali1234, what it does? you mean how it works?
[00:39] <ali1234> what it does, and what exactly it achieves
[00:39] <JGJones> OK
[00:39] <ali1234> and how it works
[00:39] <JGJones> Being deaf it mean I can't hear a telephone. Even if I could hear it, I still can't make it out - all voices are just random noises to me
[00:39] <JGJones> So I can't use a telephone.
[00:39] <ali1234> ok
[00:40] <JGJones> With a text relay, there is a 3rd party operator. In UK - I dial any number with 18001 prefix
[00:40] <JGJones> this prefix mean it automatically goes to Text Relay (www.textrelay.org) and then dial the usual number I put in after 18001
[00:41] <JGJones> once it get thru, there's another delay while I wait for an operator to become available (mostly short times...)
[00:42] <JGJones> depending on the person I'm calling - they might have run out of patience and hung up on me and I'll have to redial or if it's a call centre, wait until the message repeat ;)
[00:42] <ali1234> ok i get this part
[00:42] <JGJones> the operator's job is to act as a relay...I type to the operator using a text phone. in text.
[00:42] <JGJones> The operator then speak what I type to the person I'm calling.
[00:42] <ali1234> yes, and then they type out the reply to you
[00:42] <JGJones> The person speak to the operator and the operator relay it to me by typing
[00:42] <ali1234> this part i understand
[00:43] <ali1234> so, why do you need a modem dial out?
[00:43] <JGJones> A video relay does the same thing except that it use BSL (British Sign Language)
[00:43] <ali1234> yeah, i saw a link to sign language video relay the other day, was it from you?
[00:43] <JGJones> modem - ok the current technology is that I have to use a rather old minicom (textphone) plugged into phone line to make calls.
[00:44] <JGJones> yeah that was me - they wanted android app devs so I thought someone here might be interested
[00:44] <ali1234> ah yeah that was it
[00:44] <ali1234> ok
[00:44] <JGJones> however if I'm outside of the house - I can't use text relay
[00:44] <JGJones> it doesn't work on mobiles
[00:44] <ali1234> gotcha
[00:44] <webpigeon> that sucks :(
[00:44] <JGJones> *must* have a landline with a operator that support the 18001 prefix (most does now)
[00:45] <ali1234> it sucks cos there's no reason why it can't work... any mobile phone can do modem calls
[00:45] <JGJones> so I was thinking of setting up a computer with modem...ssh in if I want to make calls etc.
[00:45] <ali1234> so what you actually need is a piece of software that emulates textphone and runs on linux console
[00:46] <ali1234> or is textphone just a standard dumb terminal?
[00:46] <JGJones> ali1234, it could...but you'll need a laptop with the necessary software to use the mobile as a modem and then support the communication protocol that the text relay use.
[00:46] <ali1234> nah
[00:47] <ali1234> i bet a N900 could do this standalone if the 18000 prefixes worked from mobile operators
[00:47] <JGJones> a textphone is basically a minicom unit that use the Baudot or V18 protocol
[00:47] <JGJones> The old Nokia Communicators was certainly capable of it.
[00:47] <JGJones> and it use sound to transmit
[00:48] <Azelphur> JGJones: probably could rig something up with VOIP and asterisk
[00:48] <Core_UK> anyone have an understanding of openpgp?
[00:48] <ali1234> you don't need asterisk or voip for this
[00:48] <JGJones> yes...it make a series of loud beeping noise...thankfully newer units now just plug direct into the line.
[00:48] <Azelphur> oh ok then :p
[00:48] <ali1234> all you need is minicom/picocom and a modem
[00:49] <ali1234> like how we used to connect to BBS in the old days
[00:49] <JGJones> To be honest I DON'T want to do this, but because the Government is cutting Access to Work fund, I need to seek "cheaper" alternatives just in case
[00:49] <webpigeon> Core_UK: depends what aspects
[00:49] <JGJones> Access to Work was actually designed for one off lump sums - ie person in wheel chair - pay for a ramp etc.
[00:49] <ali1234> well the cheaper alternative is just stop using telephone calls and use IM instead
[00:49] <Azelphur> JGJones: funny enough, I actually know a couple deaf guys who use android
[00:50] <JGJones> however for deaf people - it's ongoing support costs that's a drain.
[00:50] <JGJones> Azelphur, to do what? (got Android myself :))
[00:50] <Azelphur> JGJones: mostly text based communication
[00:50] <Azelphur> the deaf guys I know just rely heavily on SMS
[00:51] <Core_UK> webpigeon: If I sign my mail with my openPGP key how do people know it is me?
[00:51] <Core_UK> I sent a test mail and it only showed an attachment with random letters/numbers
[00:51] <JGJones> Azelphur, I've actually had a mobile since 1999 - for SMS then.
[00:51] <webpigeon> Core_UK: you publish the key on known keyservers
[00:51] <Azelphur> hehe :)
[00:52] <Core_UK> webpigeon: i see
[00:52] <JGJones> Azelphur, rather expensive then. Got even more expensive with 3G video calling about 10 years ago...
[00:52] <webpigeon> Core_UK: then a pgp aware client can work out if the signed message is signed with your private key using your published public key
[00:52] <JGJones> Azelphur, now - with android/iOS - there's whatsapp, google talk, Tango (video chat), facetime etc etc so it's getting easier.
[00:52] <JGJones> Blackberry are surprisingly very popular among the deaf due to BBM.
[00:52] <Azelphur> :)
[00:52] <ali1234> GSM data calls from 3G mobiles are rather expensive so an Ip based dialout service is going to be cheapest
[00:53] <Azelphur> JGJones: I love gtalk with android, I use it a lot :D
[00:53] <JGJones> Azelphur, now with a tablet, I use Gtalk for video chat too
[00:53] <Azelphur> JGJones: you hear gtalk video chat is coming to phones too soon?
[00:53] <Core_UK> webpigeon: do you know if I could send an email to a person so only they could see using openpgp?
[00:53] <ali1234> n900 already has it
[00:53] <ali1234> Azelphur: ^
[00:54] <ali1234> skype video too, for like a year now
[00:54] <Azelphur> yea, n900 is kinda abandoned now though
[00:54] <ali1234> it was abandoned at birth
[00:54] <ali1234> it still works as good today as it did then
[00:54] <Azelphur> indeed :(
[00:54] <ali1234> as a skype wifi phone you can't beat it
[00:54] <webpigeon> Core_UK: if you have their public key, you can encrypt your message using their public key and the person has to have the private key to decrypt it
[00:54] <ali1234> the built in skype works better than the PC client does even on windows
[00:55] <Core_UK> webpigeon: ok great, thanks :)
[00:55] <ali1234> JGJones: is there like a loopback textphone test service?
Wonder if you could replace it with a speach to text & text to speech system on a box somewhere :/</sidenote>
[00:57] <ali1234> the hardest thing about setting this up is going to be finding a modem with drivers that still work on a recent linux
[00:57] <webpigeon> ali1234: most modems are really dumb?
[00:57] <ali1234> not any more
[00:57] <webpigeon> awww :(
[00:57] <ali1234> most modems are now softmodems
[00:57] <ali1234> = winmodems
[00:57] <ali1234> loads of them don't work
[00:58] <webpigeon> winmodems = lose :(
[00:58] <ali1234> and nobody cares because nobody uses modems any more
[00:58] <ali1234> although i just remembered i have a couple of standalone serial modems
[00:58] <webpigeon> ali1234: if that were true we'd not be having this convosation :P
[01:00] <ali1234> hey what's this on textrelay.org
[01:00] <ali1234> http://www.texbox.co.uk/
[01:00] <JGJones> ali1234, I don't think there's a loopback service
[01:01] <ali1234> is there some automated phone line that i can ring without annoying anyone?
[01:01] <JGJones> hmm
[01:01] <JGJones> I can plug in my minicom and enable it to autoanswer
[01:01] <ali1234> could try that tomorrow
[01:01] <JGJones> you should get a message from it "caller not at home, leave a message GA" something like that
[01:01] <ali1234> or some time
[01:02] <JGJones> communication protocol for minicoms are in baudcot or V18 as far as I can remember
[01:02] <ali1234> internet says v.18
[01:02] <JGJones> my biggest issue really for me is having someone call me.
[01:03] <ali1234> how does that fit in?
[01:03] <JGJones> I never give out my number, I can't answer voice calls.
[01:03] <ali1234> ok, so why would anyone call you?
[01:04] <JGJones> if I used text relay exclusively, then my number would be 1800201234567890
[01:04] <JGJones> 18002 is the prefix for a hearing person to call someone deaf via text relay
[01:04] <JGJones> as for why would anyone call me - cos they love me :)
[01:04] <ali1234> but... ok
[01:04] <JGJones> seriously - I'll like to start a business :)
[01:04] <ali1234> so someone calls you using the relay
[01:04] <ali1234> your modem answers and gets the text
[01:05] <ali1234> and sends it to your mobile over jabber
[01:05] <JGJones> and obviously having a number for someone to call is a no-brainer for any businesses
[01:05] <JGJones> jabber...hmm...sound great....
[01:06] <ali1234> the whole thing can be done over jabber
[01:06] <ali1234> in fact someone probably already did it
[01:06] <JGJones> currently I'm use a London based number with a 4 digit extension for people to call me - this goes to SignVideo actually (hence london number) and leave a message
[01:06] <ali1234> hell, it's probably how that texbox product works
[01:08] <JGJones> texbox - it's usually used by councils etc
[01:09] <JGJones> for example Bristol - http://goo.gl/8M76X
[01:09] <ali1234> http://code.google.com/p/jabber-terminal/
[01:09] <ali1234> ^ that's pretty much all you need
[01:09] <JGJones> one issue with jabber....
[01:10] <JGJones> I assume that incoming calls would be automatically answered and goes onto jabber?
[01:10] <ali1234> no
[01:10] <JGJones> no?
[01:10] <ali1234> an incoming call would cause the terminal emulator to emit "RINGRING" message
[01:10] <ali1234> which would then go to you over jabber
[01:10] <ali1234> you would need to type 'ATA' to make the modem answer
[01:10] <JGJones> Ah...that would work...
[01:11] <ali1234> the devil is of course in the detail but i think this is very much doable
[01:11] <JGJones> just need a jabber client that would actually make my phone vibrate the hell out of my pants instead of 2 brief vibrate I get
[01:11] <ali1234> yeah that too
[01:11] <ali1234> details :)
[01:11] <JGJones> but yeah...details...
[01:12] <JGJones> I could also make calls using jabber too...
[01:12] <ali1234> yeah just "ATDT18001....."
[01:12] <JGJones> would be perfect as an alternative solution
[01:13] <ali1234> this all hinges on whether a normal modem and terminal emulator can act like a textphone. but i see no reason why it can't
[01:13] <JGJones> It can - well at least on Windows, you could use any modem with Hyperterminal
[01:13] <ali1234> well if hyperterminal can do it then linux can do it for sure
[01:13] <JGJones> to use typetalk
[01:14] <JGJones> text relay (typetalk's the old name for it)
[01:14] <JGJones> some other chap earlier on mentioned cutecom
[01:14] <JGJones> !cutecom
[01:14] <webpigeon> !package cutecom
[01:14] <ali1234> !info cutecom
[01:15] <ali1234> yeah you don't want a graphical one for this
[01:15] <webpigeon> damned bots
[01:15] <ali1234> you want a text console only one, so it can be forwarded over jabber/xmpp
[01:15] <JGJones> !info minicom
[01:15] <JGJones> like that one?
[01:15] <ali1234> so minicom, picocom, microcom, maybe even cu
[01:16] <webpigeon> ali1234: or a software interface which can talk telepathy?
[01:16] <ali1234> maybe even a direct jabber-tty bridge would be even better
[01:16] <ali1234> webpigeon: yeah ^
[01:16] <ali1234> that would involve coding though :)
[01:16] <webpigeon> true
[01:16] <webpigeon> Wonder if there is a tty library for c/c++ :/
[01:16] <ali1234> prototype it with jabber-terminal and see what problems you hit, then you'll know what not to do if you implement it directly
[01:17] <ali1234> programming tty is trivial
[01:17] <webpigeon> never done it
[01:17] <ali1234> you've never used stdout?
[01:17] <webpigeon> yeah, but that's just an output stream
[01:18] <ali1234> that's all a tty is
[01:18] <ali1234> input stream, output stream
[01:18] <webpigeon> \o/
[01:18] <webpigeon> so to forward it over telepathy is pretty trivial then, and considering telepathy will do the jabber stuff...
[01:18] <ali1234> sure
[01:19] <webpigeon> why hasn't anyone done that :/
[01:19] <ali1234> well jabber-terminal pretty much has
[01:19] <webpigeon> goodo
[01:19] <JGJones> cos there's not many deaf people using linux :)
[01:20] <webpigeon> i mean it's basiclly just echoing input and output over jabber
[01:21] <ali1234> there's a guy in this channel who has a highlight set on jabber and xmpp... one of the matt* guys i think
[01:21] <webpigeon> MattJ
[01:21] <ali1234> he seems to know a lot about jabber anyway, can probably give some useful advice
[01:21] <webpigeon> Jabber \o/ (rebbaj as well if he's not removed it)
[01:22] <webpigeon> next time i decide to type telepathy into google and expect meaningful results - :/
[01:22] <webpigeon> although that is my 3rd year project :P
[01:24] <ali1234> wow i just found out there is something called "ToIP"
[01:24] <ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text_over_IP
[01:25] <webpigeon> text over IRC :P
[01:27] <JGJones> ali1234, ToIP - it's actually real-time text
[01:27] <ali1234> yeah
[01:28] <Muionix> connect irc.anonops.li
[01:28] <JGJones> not like IRC - type a sentence, click send etc. Instead each character is sent instanstly.
[01:28] <ali1234> i found a page where there's a bio of a guy who apparently works on tty-toip bridges for cisco
[01:28] <ali1234> tty is real time too
[01:28] <ali1234> jabber is not
[01:28] <ali1234> that could be a problem
[01:29] <webpigeon> send and recv on end of line markers?
[01:29] <webpigeon> assuming it has them...
[01:29] <ali1234> jabber does, yeah
[01:29] <ali1234> splits messages into packets
[01:29] <JGJones> ali1234, the difference between tty and ToIP is that...when I am typing in textphone, the other end cannot interrupt etc.
[01:29] <ali1234> but if the person does not hit enter after typing a line
[01:29] <ali1234> then you won't see it
[01:30] <JGJones> real time - both person can type and both see characters etc instantly
[01:30] <ali1234> i would guess that is just a limitation of the textphone interface
[01:30] <webpigeon> JGJones: when you get messages on your text phone, do they appear char by char or as lines
[01:31] <JGJones> webpigeon, yes char by char
[01:31] <webpigeon> ah I see
[01:31] <JGJones> but you can't type anything until they've finished
[01:31] <webpigeon> so there must be some kind of finished signal then?
[01:31] <JGJones> ToIP allow for two way real time conversation
[01:31] <JGJones> no
[01:32] <JGJones> I think it's more that the protocol is so slow, it's not easy to interrupt
[01:32] <JGJones> (and that on a minicom I have a single line of text display)
[01:32] <webpigeon> ah, okies
[01:33] <JGJones> a bit like calling call centres?
[01:33] <webpigeon> ali1234: that might be a problem then (if you can't tell when a message has finsihed, you can't foward it on to jabber)
[01:33] <JGJones> press 1 for annoying twat and music, press 2 for more crap, press 3 fo......press 32351 for others
[01:34] <JGJones> on a minicom I have to WAIT until they've relayed the entire thing.
[01:34] <webpigeon> :/
[01:34] <JGJones> ToIP would mean I could just say 2 GA and be done with it.
[01:34] <JGJones> GA = it's a shortcut on text conversations, just mean "Go Ahead, your turn"
[01:35] <webpigeon> so there is a kind of unoffical end of message?
[01:35] <JGJones> when you've done your waffle - GA at end for next person's turn
[01:36] <webpigeon> like \r\n in irc messages
[01:36] <webpigeon> okay, apples and oranges
[01:36] <JGJones> it's pretty much the official textphone-speak to use GA at end of your speak as it let the other person that they can finally start typing.
[01:37] <JGJones> and when the call is finished - SKSK (Stop Keying)
[01:37] <webpigeon> So it could use it as a signal to send the message to jabber?
[01:37] <JGJones> well if I was typing in jabber I would just say "hello how are you, it's joe here ga"
[01:38] <JGJones> they reply....ga
[01:38] <JGJones> yeah I won the lottery, gonna buy the moon ga
[01:38] <JGJones> they reply...ga
[01:38] <webpigeon> exactly
[01:38] <JGJones> and so on
[01:38] <JGJones> sometime a bad habit...when I started using IM, I kept using ga all the time.
[01:39] <webpigeon> I was just thinking from a technical point of view, as to how to tell that it was time to send the message (because you can't send letter by letter)
[01:39] <JGJones> yeah...ga/sksk was used because even though a minicom might do it letter by letter you still couldn't get a letter in while the other party is talking
[01:39] <JGJones> 1 way
[01:40] <webpigeon> I see
[01:41] <ali1234> ok i need to get back to my excel spreadsheet
[01:41] <ali1234> but some time i'll look into this
[01:42] <webpigeon> Yeah, I should probably sleep, but it seems like it's something very do-able
[01:45] <JGJones> sleep? what's that?
[01:45] <JGJones> !info sleep
[01:45] <JGJones> thought so.
[01:57] <zaahir> good night ! how are you ?
[07:52] <AlanBell> morning all
[08:00] <diplo> Morning AlanBell, Morning all
[08:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning.
[08:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> Is it possible for HMG be more incompetent? http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/the-tony-collins-blog/2011/06/officials-write-off-874000-on-rushed-website/index.htm
[08:34] <MartijnVdS> I'd like to make £800k on a website
[08:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> I can't believe we (UKGov) are just _so_ rubbish.
[08:34] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Dutch gov isn't much better
[08:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> ~£1m on a website! that didn't bloody work.
[08:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> Not only that but rather than getting the money back from the suppliers they just write it off.
[08:35] <MartijnVdS> We've had several multi-million migrations to new systems cancelled because the new system didn't work
[08:35] <AlanBell> yeah, they are scared of their suppliers because the suppliers will sue them
[08:36] <AlanBell> because the suppliers get paid so much they can afford masses of lawyers
[08:37] <AlanBell> hmm, home office thing
[08:38]  * AlanBell is presenting a proposal at the home office next week
[08:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> Might want to tell them that websites don't generally cost nearly a million.
[08:38] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: or I might want to put the price up
[08:38] <AlanBell> by £874,000
[08:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> I also wonder what "rushed" implies? The story indicated the project went live in 2007 and crashed repeatedly until 2009. What's rushed about that nit?
[08:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> s/nit/bit
[08:49] <dwatkins> hiya
[08:49] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: governments think in 4-5 year increments
[08:49] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: <4 = rushed
[08:55] <MooDoo> hello all
[08:55] <MartijnVdS> howdy MooDoo
[08:55] <MooDoo> :)
[09:05] <DJones> Morning all
[09:07] <MooDoo> DJones: morning
[09:13] <DJones> Hi MooDoo
[09:13] <MooDoo> morning allhay hay
[09:13] <MooDoo> oops
[09:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol: http://techbuket.net/376
[09:18] <MooDoo> very good
[09:29] <MooDoo> !lococouncil
[09:29] <MooDoo> lol oops wrong channel
[09:34] <popey> Morning all
[09:34] <MooDoo> morning popey
[09:34] <oimon> TheOpenSourcerer: that story is depressing
[09:38] <andylockran> Good Morning! :)
[09:38] <AlanBell> http://paulmellors.blogspot.com/2011/06/loco-council-meeting.html
[09:38] <AlanBell> MooDoo: good summary, bung that to the list as well
[09:39] <MooDoo> thanks will do
[09:39] <AlanBell> and s/post/pre/
[09:39] <oimon> my employer thinks that teaming up with big suppliers means they are experts and it will be a success. my experience is that i've ended up training those guys myself
[09:39] <AlanBell> oimon: they are experts, but not experts at doing the job
[09:40] <AlanBell> they are experts at getting the job
[09:40] <MooDoo> AlanBell: ok post corrected thanks
[09:41] <popey> MooDoo: "their"
[09:41] <popey> not "our"?
[09:41] <MooDoo> arrrggghhh :)
[09:43] <MooDoo> popey: ah i get you :)
[09:43] <daubers> Morning
[09:43] <MooDoo> i think i'll change that sentence :
[09:44] <popey> the last sentence
[09:45] <MooDoo> I've changed it.
[09:45] <popey> gotcha
[09:50] <bigcalm> "Out for delivery"
[09:50]  * bigcalm stares out of the window for the rest of the day
[09:51] <MooDoo> bigcalm: awwwwwww ;)
[09:51]  * DJones throws an egg at the window ....Splat
[09:53] <popey> 23:03:24 < bigcalm> popey: know if we can add DNS entries on the superhub?
[09:53] <popey> no idea
[09:55] <czajkowski> morning
[09:55] <MooDoo> morning czajkowski
[09:55] <daubers> o/ czajkowski
[09:55] <czajkowski> MooDoo: nice blog post
[09:55] <MooDoo> czajkowski: thanks
[09:56] <czajkowski> MooDoo: you do know anyone from any team can come to a loco council meeting at any time and raise issues? not just for re approvals ?
[09:56]  * daubers waits for wiki.ubuntu.com to sign me in
[09:56] <DJones> This make my wife happy, ITV have released a player app for Android
[09:56] <MooDoo> czajkowski: i'm still learning ;) i do now :D
[09:56] <daubers> DJones: \o/ I'm getting 1 android phones in the next 2 weeks
[09:56] <czajkowski> MooDoo: no tis cool, many people don't realise that
[09:57] <daubers> s/1/2/
[09:57] <DJones> daubers: http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/40651/itv-player-app-lands-on-android
[09:57] <czajkowski> you don't have to be a loco contact to attend and voice stuff except when we're voting or discussing a team
[09:57] <czajkowski> but people can raise issues and add to the agenda
[09:57] <bigcalm> popey: I have to either add host entries to the router or the tablet. Without rooting the tablet, not sure that's possible
[09:58] <MooDoo> czajkowski: all interesting stuff :D
[09:58] <daubers> bigcalm: Or get your router to hand out dns addresses to a different DNS server
[09:59] <bigcalm> daubers: indeed, but I haven't found an option to add or edit DNS server IPs
[09:59] <daubers> :-/
[09:59] <daubers> VM suck
[09:59] <bigcalm> In this instance, yes
[10:00] <BigRedS> I thought that was the general case?
[10:00] <bigcalm> That said, the replacement modem/router hasn't dropped my connection since insterlation
[10:00] <daubers> BigRedS: Personally I believe it is
[10:01] <davmor2> morning all
[10:01] <MooDoo> davmor2: morning
[10:02] <davmor2> MooDoo: 'ow you diddling
[10:02] <MooDoo> davmor2: crackin lad
[10:03] <daubers> *sigh* _still_ "Waiting for wiki.ubuntu.com"
[10:04] <davmor2> MooDoo: is it just me or do you automatically hear Wallace's voice when you read the Crackin'  and do you also expect to hear "Cheese Gromit" after it
[10:04] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Paul Mellors] LoCo Council Meeting - http://paulmellors.blogspot.com/2011/06/loco-council-meeting.html
[10:04] <MooDoo> davmor2: that's what i think when i say it :D  nice bit of wendleydale
[10:05] <davmor2> MooDoo: :D
[10:05] <daubers> Ooooh.... cheese
[10:06]  * davmor2 prods czajkowski to see if she's with us
[10:06]  * czajkowski rolls over and goes back to sleep 
[10:07] <bigcalm> czajkowski: that's what you get for having mass so late :
[10:07] <bigcalm> :P
[10:16] <bigcalm> My better half has the day off and tweeted "But a day off at home comes with tea-fairy duties!"
[10:16] <bigcalm> Damn straight it does!
[10:17] <MooDoo> bigcalm: oh yeah!
[10:17] <MooDoo> lol
[10:17] <Laney> Tesco have sold out of £20 off kindles :(
[10:19] <DJones> I'm more & more tempted by a Kindle, although can't decide whether the extra £40 for 3G is worth it, its not as if its a tablet that I'd use for web access
[10:19] <DJones> Laney: Have you got a link for the offer so I can have a look
[10:20] <gord> why would you ever need 3g on a kindle?
[10:20] <popey> buying books abroad
[10:20] <popey> using internet when not at home
[10:20] <popey> when sat in an airport
[10:20] <popey> lots of reasons
[10:20] <Laney> DJones: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/deals/cheap-ebook-readers-kindles#kindle
[10:20] <DJones> I'd agree with the downloading books when not at home/near a wifi station
[10:20] <Laney> try tomorrow morning I guess
[10:20] <gord> all of which can be combated by waiting five minutes until you find wifi
[10:20] <MartijnVdS> popey: I just load my e-book reader with 200 books -- I'll run out of battery before I run out of books to read :)
[10:20] <gord> or if you have your phone and your phone does tethering
[10:20] <popey> gord: airport wifi is almost always pay-for
[10:21] <daubers> \o/ tethering
[10:21] <popey> and I go plenty of places where there is no wifi
[10:21] <popey> e.g. daughters ballet school
[10:21] <popey> sit there for an hour bored out of my skull
[10:21] <Laney> I'm hardly ever in range of usable free wifi when away from home/work
[10:21] <popey> or, go online via 3g
[10:21] <czajkowski> annoying dublin airport you pay for wifi
[10:21] <czajkowski> shannon small ickle airport free
[10:22]  * daubers kicks wiki.ubuntu.com and gives up
[10:22] <gord> i'm just saying that i'v had my kindle for about a year and not once have i thought "i need an internet connection on this right now"
[10:22] <popey> people in different use cases non-shocker
[10:23] <Laney> although, apparently there's colour e-ink displays now
[10:23] <Laney> maybe this is a ploy to dump old stock :-O
[10:23] <MooDoo> daubers: oooo it is slow isn't it
[10:24] <popey> although having said that, i haven't actually touched my kindle since I got an ipad
[10:25] <gord> not heard of any colour e-ink devices yet, maybe i'm out of the loop, every "ereader" (that i have seen for the pedantic peoples) labelled as colour has been an lcd display
[10:25] <Laney> fiver and a packet of salt n shake for it?
[10:25] <popey> oooo
[10:25] <popey> tempting
[10:25] <popey> I _love_ salt n shake
[10:25] <daubers> popey: They _will_ blend!
[10:25] <MooDoo> little blue salt bag :D
[10:25] <popey> I'll probably take it on holiday in Aug and then get rid
[10:26] <daubers> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAl28d6tbko
[10:26] <Laney> https://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/08/technology/08ink.html
[10:31] <MooDoo> daubers: i HATE that man and blend site.....grrrrrr
[10:32] <daubers> MooDoo: I love it
[10:32] <daubers> !
[10:32] <daubers> Destroying stuff is what the interwebs is for!
[10:32] <MooDoo> daubers: not when you want stuff he's blending....what a waste
[10:32] <daubers> MooDoo: but I want the blender :(
[10:33] <MooDoo> lol
[10:33] <daubers> Or this
[10:33] <daubers> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200622592260&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123
[10:34] <MooDoo> now that looks good
[10:40] <daubers> Woot!
[10:40] <daubers> Another house viewing booked
[10:41] <nigelb> daubers: buying or selling? :-)
[10:41] <daubers> nigelb: Buying
[10:41] <directhex> make sure there are no bodies buried under the floorboards. be sure to ask.
[10:42] <MartijnVdS> Also, strange-coloured stains
[10:42] <MartijnVdS> Also, muffled sounds from the basement
[10:42] <DJones> & broadband speed/cabled area
[10:42] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: liminol on the walls and floors ;)
[10:44] <bigcalm_> Humm, what's with the connection drops?
[10:44] <bigcalm_> Not restricted to freenode
[10:44]  * bigcalm eyes VM
[10:44] <daubers> DJones: it's in an area covered by BT Infinity
[10:45] <DJones> daubers: Was that investigated before looking for houses that would be in Infinity area
[10:45] <directhex> has anyone got infinity yet?
[10:45] <daubers> MartijnVdS: I';d be surprised if it had a basement
[10:46] <daubers> DJones: There may be a map at home with that marked on...... there may be not
[10:46] <daubers> directhex: Yup. BT where complaining about how long it takes to roll out. Some people have FTTP from BT, but that takes 2 engineers 7 hours to install per house (apparently)
[10:47] <directhex> daubers, i meant anyone here
[10:47] <MartijnVdS> also, lots of fibre engineers are being "hoarded" by a Dutch company (I've seen crews from 6 or 7 countries digging fibre in my town)
[10:48] <directhex> daubers, and i'd love to know what BT's plan is if i ever need to call them out again to fix my line. apparently they've already written off one of the two copper pairs in my wall as defective.
[10:49] <MartijnVdS> directhex: Aren't they legally required to pull new wire if the current one is beyond repair?
[10:49] <dogmatic69> what does this mean? http://bin.cakephp.org/view/899144919
[10:49] <directhex> MartijnVdS, yes. the wiring is their property, after all. i just wonder *how* they'd fix it
[10:49] <daubers> directhex: They'll probably run a new one from the nearest mast.
[10:50] <daubers> directhex: That's what they did for me when I was in Swansea
[10:50] <directhex> daubers, it's all underground until the cabinet
[10:50] <daubers> directhex: Then it should be ducted
[10:51] <daubers> directhex: That, or they'll put up a mast :)
[11:19] <MooDoo> ping AlanBell
[11:20] <oimon> is it safe to defrost bacon in the microwave?
[11:20]  * oimon feeling rather unwell today
[11:20] <JGJones> not really
[11:21] <JGJones> as bacon cook quickly, you'll be actually part-cooking it rather than defrosting
[11:21] <oimon> i gave it a good nuke when i cooked it though
[11:21] <oimon> still feel nauseous though :(
[11:21] <JGJones> I've cooked bacon in the microwave in the past just fine.
[11:21] <dogmatic69> JGJones: most bacon is smoked afaik, and thus already cooked
[11:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> I've defrosted bacon in the microwave before.
[11:22] <Laney> me too, very many times
[11:22] <Laney> students...
[11:22] <JGJones> just not for defrosting - however I don't have a microwave anymore
[11:22] <oimon> i do have a rather sensitive tummy
[11:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> As with most meats - just make sure you cook it properly.
[11:22]  * TheOpenSourcerer happens to have a cast-iron stomach.
[11:22] <JGJones> students...fun....along with mislabelled tins (a common prank is to swap labels around)
[11:23] <oimon> common cause of fire alarm on campus was due to first year students microwaving tins of beans without opening
[11:23] <oimon> 1) they are metal 2) they explode
[11:23] <dogmatic69> no medium rare pork, mkay
[11:23] <MooDoo> medium rare?  pah!
[11:23] <MooDoo> oh i read pork as steak
[11:23] <MooDoo> :)
[11:24] <dogmatic69> stake should be passed over the pan, without actually touching it
[11:24] <oimon> if i had proper food poisoning i would have known at 4am
[11:24] <MooDoo> dogmatic69: BLUE steak :D
[11:24] <dogmatic69> oimon: had any salad? head its a killer lately
[11:24] <oimon> nah
[11:24] <oimon> it's for girls
[11:25]  * dogmatic69 hides his lunch :S
[11:25] <JGJones> steaks...hmm..I'm hungry...
[11:26] <JGJones> hoping to go to France this summer - depends if I can grab some time at my dad's place...buffulo farm a few miles away...
[11:26]  * TheOpenSourcerer had a rather large rib-eye on Sunday (Cooked Medium Rare BTW)
[11:26] <AlanBell> o/ MooDoo
[11:26] <MooDoo> :) hello AlanBell
[11:27] <oimon> it's funny how it's considered sophisticated to eat rare meat
[11:27]  * oimon doesn't succumb to peer pressure
[11:28] <JGJones> oimon, news to me....I've always had mine rare from a young age.
[11:28] <MooDoo> i love blue steak and then it's not raw enough
[11:28] <JGJones> I second that :)
[11:28] <daubers> You people are weird
[11:29] <MooDoo> lol
[11:29] <MooDoo> no you're wierd :p
[11:29] <AlanBell> steak tastes best if it looks like a decent vet could get it back up on it's feet with a bucket of hot water some soap and a towel
[11:30] <daubers> Seriously... man created fire for a reason.
[11:30] <dogmatic69> AlanBell++
[11:30] <MooDoo> daubers: yeah to keep you walm :)
[11:30] <daubers> MooDoo: And to ensure dinner is dead
[11:31] <DJones> daubers: Sure, so you can see what you're eating at night
[11:31] <popey> mmmmm blue steak
[11:31] <MooDoo> daubers: what's this dead you're referring to?
[11:31] <popey> might get some steak on the way home to night i think
[11:31] <daubers> You bunch of weirdies :p
[11:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> One should note that red meats are generally OK rare. White meats and Pork need to be well cooked
[11:35] <popey> where "well cooked" != "burnt to a crisp"
[11:35] <popey> ooooo!
[11:35] <popey> just remembered I have some nice big prawns in the freezer
[11:36] <AlanBell> and tasty little fishies can be eaten raw if fresh and appropriately cleaned
[11:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oh blimey - here we go again: http://www.boingboing.net/2011/06/22/leaked-uk-copyright.html?dlvrit=36761
[11:36] <bigcalm> I do a lovely and moist pork steak 'n stuffing
[11:36] <popey> mmmm fishies
[11:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> Apparently "moist" is one of the most popular words in the English language.
[11:37] <bigcalm> AlanBell: best frozen 1st to kill off bacteria
[11:37] <popey> mmmmm moist
[11:37] <bigcalm> Damn it VM!
[11:37] <oimon> crisps
[11:37] <oimon> crispy :P
[11:37] <popey> might do some prawns in a light batter tonight
[11:37] <JGJones> can't stand white meat that are so well cooked they're more dry than the driest place on earth
[11:37] <popey> ditto JGJones
[11:37] <bigcalm> The router part is going weird. I lose connection to my dev box as well as the 'net
[11:38] <oimon> slow cooked meats are the best. you could slap a piece of leather in a slow cooker and it will come out succulent
[11:38] <JGJones> oimon, that's true...I bought a slow cooker as a student
[11:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> succulent is another good word
[11:38] <dogmatic69> #cooking-uk
[11:38] <JGJones> turns out to be a big mistake.
[11:39] <oimon> we cook 50% of our meals in a slow cooker
[11:39] <oimon> curry, casserole, pasta sauce
[11:39] <dogmatic69> oimon: i dont have enough foresight for that
[11:39] <JGJones> as everything  I put in, after a day when I come home, it's all bloody eaten.
[11:39] <oimon> lol
[11:39] <JGJones> and I am left with just the smell wafting around. And a tin of beans. sigh.
[11:39] <MooDoo> dogmatic69: pah fell for it again
[11:40] <oimon> wifey has a knack for churning out curries that are at least as nice as my favourite curry house
[11:40] <dogmatic69> MooDoo: lol
[11:40] <oimon> typical that the only night she isn't around for dinner i get a gippy tummy
[11:42] <dogmatic69> s/shes not around/im left to fend for my self/
[11:42] <dogmatic69> :D
[11:43] <oimon> i used to be a good cook
[11:43] <oimon> haven't cooked for ages though
[11:43] <oimon> no time
[11:43] <dogmatic69> my take-aways are awesome
[11:44] <JGJones> I like to cook...I think I do pretty well
[11:44] <dogmatic69> cant beat them
[11:45] <s-fox> Good day.
[11:45] <dogmatic69> o/
[11:45] <MooDoo> s-fox: greetings :)
[11:45] <s-fox> Hello dogmatic69 . How are you?
[11:45] <s-fox> MooDoo! :)
[11:45] <s-fox> How you doing?
[11:45] <kvarley> Why can't I download my purchased music to banshee? This is outrageous! I didn't realise there were limits on how many times you can download it
[11:45] <MooDoo> s-fox: fab thanks :)
[11:46] <kvarley> Ubuntu going down the subscriptions path was a bad idea =/
[11:46] <oimon> ?
[11:46] <MooDoo> s-fox: whats new?
[11:46] <bigcalm> Yay, tablet is here \o/
[11:46] <MooDoo> s-fox: how did you do on your poker night?
[11:46]  * bigcalm wills it to charge more quickly
[11:46] <oimon> bigcalm: the kugon?
[11:47] <s-fox> MooDoo:  It went really well thanks - http://twitter.com/#!/_Silver_Fox_/status/82539393793003520
[11:47] <JGJones> kvarley, you mean from Ubuntu music store? it does tell you on download screen how many downloads left
[11:47] <bigcalm> oimon: Kogan, yes
[11:48] <oimon> i always forget the name...i keep thinking of dagon the amorite fish god http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagon
[11:48] <kvarley> JGJones: Yeah, just shocked by the limit is all.
[11:48] <bigcalm> It's heavier than I had expected
[11:48] <popey> photos!
[11:48] <oimon> bigcalm: that may be good - more battery :)
[11:48] <MooDoo> s-fox: fab, mental note, never play with you
[11:48] <kvarley> JGJones: I clicked the Subscribe button and it's now syncing. Has that charged me money?
[11:48] <s-fox> MooDoo:  I am okay thank you, trolling the ubuntu forums listening to Jean Michel Jarre
[11:48] <bigcalm> Hopefully that indicates a beefy battery
[11:48] <MooDoo> s-fox: oxygene?
[11:49] <s-fox> Had that on earlier. Got magnetic fields on atm :)
[11:49] <davmor2> s-fox: Popcorn
[11:50] <directhex> built a new pc at the weekend \o/
[11:50] <MooDoo> directhex: yay
[11:51] <s-fox> MooDoo:  Poker is easy, if you can quickly work out chance and read people.
[11:51] <directhex> MooDoo, it's wifey's though. not mine. i have no pc powers.
[11:51] <oimon> JGJones: got my transcend class 10 sd card :)
[11:52] <bigcalm> popey: http://twitter.com/#!/bigcalm/statuses/83487250150735872
[11:52] <MooDoo> s-fox: i'm rubbish at it :) lol
[11:52] <s-fox> MooDoo:  lol , practice.  play me ;)
[11:52] <MooDoo> s-fox: looking at that twitter update.....no chance i was to be left with something lol
[11:53] <directhex> http://yfrog.com/z/gzjrmcpzj
[11:53] <MooDoo> nice kit
[11:54] <directhex> http://i.imgur.com/BK7mqh.jpg
[11:54] <MooDoo> windows?
[11:54] <bigcalm> Pizza \o/
[11:54] <MooDoo> yay
[11:54] <directhex> MooDoo, wife runs windows on her desktop.
[11:55] <MartijnVdS> awww
[11:55] <MooDoo> directhex: mine does too
[11:55] <DJones> Mine doesn't :)
[11:55] <oimon> mine runs ubuntu
[11:55] <DJones> oimon: +1
[11:56] <oimon> she asked for it, cos it was faster and less annoying popup notifications
[11:56]  * daubers runs OS X on his desktop.....
[11:56] <oimon> and the windows wobble
[11:56] <directhex> not much gaming to be done on an ubuntu box. otherwise she'd go for that
[11:56] <MooDoo> directhex: xbox and wii is for gaming :)
[11:56] <gord> i hate the pop ups in windows, its like bloody clippy, they just got rid of the cartoon
[11:57] <directhex> MooDoo, wife likes kb+m, not joypads
[11:57] <andylockran> TheOpenSourcerer: Cheers for the recommendation of Joomla.
[11:57] <DJones> directhex: Mine is always playing games on farcebook
[11:57] <andylockran> Looks to be quite user-friendly for creating content.
[11:57] <MooDoo> DJones: bejeweled
[11:57] <oimon> gord: especially when there's installshield, adobe, java, roxio, and windows update all popping up within 20 secs of each other "hey updates here"
[11:57] <daubers> I was talking about that with a chap I know who does some gaming stuff. He reckons that part of the problem is that there is no standard IDE for building those kind of things in Linux.
[11:57] <daubers> Was an interesting PoV
[11:57] <MooDoo> daubers: http://www.tuxgames.com/
[11:57] <DJones> MooDoo: Nah, city/farm/jungle/insert random comment-ville games
[11:58] <directhex> DJones, well, yes, facebook games. i mean real games.
[11:58] <DJones> directhex: To her, they are real games, almost real life at times :)
[11:59] <directhex> daubers, i don't think that's it at all. especially given some consoles have traditionally used linux-based development environments
[11:59] <directhex> daubers, it comes down to simple economics
[11:59] <daubers> directhex: I don't think it's the whole of the problem, maybe a small part
[11:59] <DJones> Tried to get her interested in Minecraft, but she decided that it was too complex and she wouldn't have the patience/ability for it
[12:00] <directhex> daubers, paying a dev to make a linux version costs money. even if they do it free of charge, you need the support structure in place to support it. and linux support costs more than windows support due to infinite variability - why spend that on a tiny market?
[12:00] <directhex> wifey is currently playing mass effect 2.
[12:00] <daubers> directhex: Also, those consoles would provide (I suspect) some mangled version of eclipse as their IDE with standard components and bits. Where as doing that for a linux distribution will be a lot more spread out tool wise
[12:00] <oimon> why do we always try to get our wives interested in stuff we like? my wife never tries to get me knitting
[12:01] <directhex> daubers, less the IDE, more the libs. even the games that *do* exist for linux don't usually run anymore after a year or two, due to lib changes
[12:01] <daubers> directhex: Just thought it was an interesting point :)
[12:01] <directhex> oimon, we were playing videogames together in our teens. no coercion.
[12:01] <gord> a year or two is a bit misleading
[12:01] <gord> maybe 5-8 years
[12:02] <directhex> gord, they already target old versions of libs, to have a chance of working on the greatest number of distros
[12:02] <directhex> nobody wants a "your libc is too old" message
[12:02] <gord> games tend to rely on very little libraries, basically sdl -> X and audiolibraryfoo -> alsa
[12:03] <s-fox> Amazing video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJIXXyQYyHA
[12:03] <JGJones> so copying OSX's packaging method would work for games? everything self-contained
[12:03] <gord> that is pretty much how games are shipped
[12:03] <directhex> JGJones, except for the one thing they don't copy, that'll break, guaranteed.
[12:03] <gord> its not copying, its just "having it all in the same directory"
[12:03] <gord> its been done for years
[12:03] <directhex> i've seen games break by shipping their own libpng, fr'example, rather than using the distro one
[12:04] <daubers> AlanBell: One of your twitter links doesn't make sense
[12:04] <AlanBell> daubers: which one?
[12:04] <gord> in the end, closed software has a shelf-life, hard to get old windows games working on windows too
[12:04] <daubers> AlanBell: http://t.co/hddljPz <- That one, just takes me to a sign in page
[12:04] <directhex> yeah, some windows games are hard to get working. some are pretty much impossible
[12:05]  * daubers has gone back to board games
[12:05] <directhex> i love the irony that older games are often easier to coax than newer ones
[12:05] <directhex> e.g. maddeningly, Broken Sword 1-3 are fine on a dualcore cpu, 4 is not
[12:06] <AlanBell> daubers: ok, will fix, should link to this http://www.publiccontractsscotland.gov.uk/Search/show/Search_View.aspx?ID=JUN093903
[12:07] <daubers> AlanBell: Oooh... more interested now. danfish would probably also be interested I suspect
[12:07] <AlanBell> yeah, I have registered interest and emailed the chap running it
[12:07] <daubers> Cool :)
[12:07] <AlanBell> I understand Canonical have too
[12:09] <dwatkins> AlanBell: I am interested to know how that goes - reminds me of when the Munich council chose Linux for their desktops
[12:10] <AlanBell> yeah, interesting that it is in Scotland
[12:10] <dwatkins> (this was about 8 years ago, I don't know how the project is going)
[12:10] <dwatkins> I live in Scotland.
[12:10] <AlanBell> they tend to like to not repeat the mistakes made south of the border
[12:10] <dwatkins> Since moving here, I've noticed that compared to England, some things work significantly better north of the border.
[12:10] <danfish> ahoy, hoy! Who's taking my name in vain ;)
[12:11]  * danfish scrolls up 
[12:11] <dwatkins> Buying and selling property being the major difference I've noticed.
[12:11] <oimon> i see a similar thing with denmark - however a country of 5m people is manageable
[12:11] <danfish> AlanBell: that looks very interesting
[12:11] <AlanBell> dwatkins: well the whole separate legal system
[12:12] <AlanBell> not entirely sure how the scottish NHS relates to the rest of the UK NHS
[12:12] <danfish> the NHS in scotland is very different to England
[12:12] <danfish> *very*
[12:12] <dwatkins> http://www.muenchen.de/Rathaus/referate/dir/limux/89256/index.html - more information on LiMux, there may be a translation on there, or just use googletranslate
[12:12] <dogmatic69> how can i make something like *.site.dev work on my localhost?
[12:12] <dwatkins> yeah, danfish? I have only experienced it from the perspective of donating blood and a brief visit to a GP, which both seemed similar to England
[12:12] <dogmatic69> that in hosts is fail
[12:12] <danfish> none of the same political garbage - no commissioning, etc
[12:13] <BigRedS> Oh, name resolution
[12:13] <BigRedS> I think you'd likely need a local DNS resolver
[12:13] <oimon> On 04/13/2011 it was time: half of the planned computer workstations, namely 6000, are migrated to a Linux operating system.
[12:13] <bigcalm> Finally goto use my tablet. It's like having a bigger phone that can't make phone calls
[12:13] <danfish> dwatkins: at the point of contact - ie the GP etc, much the same, but behind the scenes, waaay different
[12:13] <BigRedS> q
[12:13] <bigcalm> s/goto/got to/
[12:13] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: is that hard to setup?
[12:13] <dwatkins> danfish: aha I see
[12:13] <BigRedS> not especially so, no. There's probably several tutorials
[12:14] <BigRedS> it's not simple, but it's not fiendishly difficult either
[12:14]  * danfish has often thought of relocating north of the border, but can't get Mrs Fish to agree
[12:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> andylockran: NP
[12:18] <daubers> danfish: Very hard to migrate back afterwards.... (as my aunt is finding out)
[12:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> nom nom - left over curry for lunch :-D
[12:20] <danfish> daubers: I can imagine. I'd just keep heading further North until I encountered reindeer ;)
[12:20] <danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: how are the chilis doing?
[12:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hi danfish - OK Thanks. Flowers on some - plants seem quite happy.
[12:22] <danfish> :)
[12:22] <gord> graze.com have invented raspberry cranberries and blueberry yoghurt raisins. its the greatest thing ever
[12:24] <bigcalm> I really should take graze off my highlight list
[12:24] <DJones> AlanBell: TheOpenSourcerer Just noticed this http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/22/health_boss_goes/
[12:24] <danfish> g
[12:25] <AlanBell> DJones: yeah, surprisingly it appears heads are rolling
[12:25] <danfish> "Connelly's interim replacement is Katie Davis. She previously revelled in the title of executive director of operational excellence in the Efficiency and Reform Group. Prior to that she worked on ID cards at the Home Office"
[12:25] <danfish> worked on ID cards. Ok good lord :(
[12:25] <danfish> s/ok/oh
[12:28] <oimon> has anyone used cryptoluks to encrypt folders in ubuntu one? don't wanna have to install truecrypt on all my pcs
[12:30] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: have you got a name of one / link i can look at? all im finding is dns issues :/
[12:32] <danfish> oimon: I thought cryptoluks was for partitions than folder?
[12:33] <oimon> danfish: i use it for my memory stick partition . was hoping it could find i way to encrypt a folder within ubuntu one
[12:35] <danfish> I used to do the same with a memory stick, and then use freeOTFE on windows as needed. Worked well.
[12:36] <daubers> Bah, I hate blacklist companies
[12:36] <danfish> oimon:  I think for folders, encfs may be more suitable
[12:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> DJones: You on twitter? What's your twitter name?
[12:37] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: djbdns or bind?
[12:37] <BigRedS> bind's more popular
[12:37] <dogmatic69> thanks
[12:37] <daubers> ARGHHHH
[12:38] <BigRedS> daubers: are you on the extorting sort's list?
[12:38] <daubers> You can always tell a dodgy blacklisting company by the fact they use a self signed cert and have a whole page you have to agree to to convince you their cert is trustworthy
[12:38] <DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: DG_Jones
[12:38] <DJones> For twitter
[12:38] <daubers> BigRedS: It's some company called SORBS
[12:39] <oimon> danfish: thanks i will check encfs
[12:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> ty DJones
[12:43] <daubers> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_and_Open_Relay_Blocking_System#Criticism :(
[12:44] <MooDoo> daubers: SORBS pah!!!!! :(
[12:45] <BigRedS> I propose an rbl blacklist
[12:48] <dogmatic69> is there any way to get the dns server name? tutorial is telling me to change ns1.site.com to <dns_server_name>.site.com and idk what it is :(
[12:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yummy - Now wifey brings in some Sticky Toffee Pudding and cream for pudding :-D
[12:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> To be shortly followed by moar coffee I hope.
[12:50] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: That's just wrong
[12:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> What davmor2? Coffee
[12:51] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: he's jelous
[12:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> I see,
[12:51] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: no the sticky toffee pudding you'll be asleep this afternoon :D
[12:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> It was VERY nice.
[12:51] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: you decide what it is
[12:51] <danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: followed by port, brandy, a cigar and a nap
[12:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> Only a small portion mind you.
[12:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> Now that sounds like a grand way to spend an afternoon danfish but unfortunately that won't be happening today.
[12:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> I used to love, and was rather an expert at, the LONG lunch with lashings of good claret.
[12:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> Those days are largely gone it seems to me now though.
[12:55] <danfish> ahhhh. we all lead far too busy lives.....I think a 3 day week, with 4 hour days would be great for the nations health (but not wealth)
[12:57] <AlanBell> I think I would find something suitably unhealthy to do with the time
[12:59] <Azelphur> http://gizmodo.com/5813956/lulzsec-plans-to-release-the-entire-2011-uk-census
[12:59] <Azelphur> oh wait, horrible update at the bottom makes it less funny :(
[12:59] <daubers> How can I setup a mailserver to just forward email to another email server?
[12:59] <AlanBell> yeah, some kind of hoax that got all the media excited
[13:00] <jpds> Azelphur: Dude, keep up.
[13:00] <Azelphur> would have been funny :(
[13:00] <Azelphur> I just woke up :o
[13:00] <oimon> Azelphur: did you miss 24 hrs?
[13:00] <danfish> AlanBell: I forgot add that in your spare time you'd all be busy contructing a huge statue of me in my honour....mwah, ha, ha!
[13:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> danfish: Only your statue would need to be made from finest Stilton :-)
[13:02] <Azelphur> oimon: *shrug*
[13:02] <oimon> can't go to lunch yet :(
[13:02] <oimon> terrible rain outside
[13:02]  * TheOpenSourcerer is wondering why my coffee hasn't arrived yet. Might have to get up and go find it.
[13:04] <jpds> oimon: I'm sure that's what the cavemen said.
[13:04] <oimon> jpds: especially if the prey was hiding in caves
[13:06]  * MooDoo is trying to organise an ubuntu hour in nottingham :D
[13:12] <ali1234> the funny thing about lulzsec is how everyone dismisses them as "punk kids" yet if you actually read anything they write they are obviously not
[13:13] <popey> yeah, clearly emo
[13:13] <ali1234> and the alleged census pastebin actually *does* read like something written by a punk kid
[13:19] <webpigeon> ali1234: doesn't most of the stuff on pastebin?
[13:21] <popey> http://hacknow.org/
[13:21] <popey> "A programming contest for
[13:21] <popey> young people in Europe"
[13:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> Nice popey. That is quite relevant to a discussion I was engaged in on twitter recently.
[13:30] <dogmatic69> dns install fail :/
[13:35] <oimon> https://a248.e.akamai.net/assets.github.com/img/aabb523e9605d363cc2374ffa1a85dc21cb40db2/687474703a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f507652776e2e6a7067 :P
[13:36] <oimon> ^^ makes me smile
[13:36] <dogmatic69> oimon: makes me lulz
[13:37] <oimon> mainstream newspapers make me lol too
[13:37] <dogmatic69> more like *facepalm* imo
[13:39] <oimon> in fact, anytime i see *anything* represented in the media/news/TV/papers that i know something remotely about shows that journalists/media know nothing about anything worth knowing :)
[13:40] <Azelphur> where's MattJ when you need him :(
[13:41] <directhex> Azelphur, in hiding.
[13:41] <Azelphur> indeed :(
[13:44] <webpigeon> Azelphur: he got eaten by an XML tag...
[13:44] <directhex> assuming we're after the same in-hiding mattj
[13:45] <webpigeon> directhex: jabber \o/ = mattj
[13:45] <directhex> yeah, i might've scared him off. sorry
[13:46] <webpigeon> directhex: how?
[13:46] <directhex> asking for support on prosody@conference.prosody.im!
[13:46] <Azelphur> directhex: haha, that's what I'm doing now XD
[13:46] <Azelphur> got no replies though :(
[13:47] <Azelphur> Azelphur: Hi, I run my own XMPP server at home with prosody, trying to get my phone to connect to it externally, I forwarded the ports, but when I try to connect to it I just get this in the prosody error log, Jun 22 13:39:50 s2sinf06410	info	Incoming s2s connection || Jun 22 13:39:53 s2sinf06410 info	s2s disconnected: nil->home.azelphur.com (stream closed)
[13:47] <Azelphur> cross posting ftw, if you have any ideas :)
[13:47] <webpigeon> Azelphur: are the serv records correct?
[13:47] <directhex> yeah, SVR records for all
[13:47] <directhex> um, SRV
[13:48] <directhex> free SRV records with every happy meal!
[13:48] <Azelphur> oh dear, SRV records... I'm on a dynamic IP now
[13:48] <MartijnVdS> Would you like CNAMEs with that?
[13:48] <Azelphur> directhex: no wait, I never had SRV records
[13:48] <Azelphur> even when it was working
[13:48] <oimon> i read that the fbi came in the night and took 3 racks of servers away from the hosting provider, "Mr. Ostroumow said. However, the agents took entire server racks, perhaps because they mistakenly thought that “one enclosure is = to one server,” he said in an e-mail."
[13:48] <Azelphur> azelphur.com has SRV records, but home.azelphur.com never did
[13:49] <oimon> more likely they didn't wanna have to make a 2nd visit, and don't need to apologise
[13:49] <webpigeon> Azelphur: odd, usually that's what it uses to get the host for the service
[13:50] <webpigeon> oimon: *yoink*
[13:50] <Azelphur> the azelphur.com SRV records point to google apps, but home.azelphur.com is for my XMPP server I run at home with spectrum
[13:51] <webpigeon> oimon: i hope they were'nt anything important... and attaully were the FBI, someone didn't just walk out with a bunch of servers
[13:51] <Azelphur> and it's always been like that, and it worked before
[13:51] <webpigeon> Azelphur: okay, just a thought
[13:51] <oimon> webpigeon: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/21/f-b-i-seizes-web-servers-knocking-sites-offline/
[14:01] <webpigeon> oh dear.
[14:03] <brobostigon> good afternoon everyone.
[14:04] <webpigeon> Afternoon brobostigon
[14:04] <brobostigon> afternoonings webpigeon :)
[14:05] <MooDoo> brobostigon: hello matey
[14:05] <webpigeon> How are you brobostigon?
[14:06] <webpigeon> Hey MooDoo
[14:06] <brobostigon> MooDoo: hello, :)
[14:06] <popey> well. posting a referal link to spideroak was useful! http://t.co/uephzJJ has been clicked on by quite a few people who then chose to sign up and get 1GB free for themselves, and 1GB free for me!
[14:06] <popey> *recommended* :D
[14:06] <brobostigon> webpigeon: tired, but a good driving lesson, 9/10. and you?
[14:06] <MooDoo> popey: what you got now then?
[14:06] <MooDoo> webpigeon: hullo :)
[14:07] <popey> 2G free, and another 24GB via referral!
[14:07] <MooDoo> blimey
[14:07] <MooDoo> wicked
[14:08] <webpigeon> brobostigon: I'm alright thanks
[14:08] <brobostigon> webpigeon: :)
[14:09]  * daubers wants nice tea instead of pg tips :(
[14:10] <oimon> lol: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-13873091
[14:11] <andylockran> http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/21/f-b-i-seizes-web-servers-knocking-sites-offline/
[14:11] <andylockran> :(
[14:11] <andylockran> webpigeon: oimon  - that's well scary
[14:12] <webpigeon> oimon: Who's bright idea was that?
[14:12] <oimon> in wonder if the hollywood movies accurately reflect the FBI, or FBI now act that way as a result of the movies :S
[14:13] <webpigeon> Cause-Effect
[14:16] <andylockran> anyone used apache authentication? htpasswd .etc.?   I want to set it up so that you're only forced to enter a user/pass if you're accessing from outside a certain few subnets...
[14:17] <diplo> I've done it in the past andylockran
[14:17] <diplo> allow from and deny from ?
[14:17] <andylockran> diplo  -ta :)
[14:18] <andylockran> my brain is mush..
[14:19] <diplo> Think it's under mod_access in http docs online
[14:19] <diplo> From memory, not done it in a while
[14:20] <dogmatic69> $ uptime
[14:20] <dogmatic69>  14:21:31 up 33 days
[14:20] <dogmatic69> \o/
[14:20] <oimon> rebooting is for losers
[14:21] <dogmatic69> *windows/mac
[14:21] <oimon> that power icon is supposed to be red :)
[14:21] <dogmatic69> thats not even a server, just my work pc
[14:22] <oimon> my servers are on 549 days
[14:23] <dogmatic69> oimon: what version you running?
[14:23] <webpigeon> oimon: isn't it meant to be white? :P
[14:23] <oimon> servers are running Scientific linux
[14:23] <oimon> dekstop running ubuntu
[14:24] <dogmatic69> should have been called scifinix
[14:39] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Meenee-MNB737-Laptop-Bluetooth-webcam/dp/B004GGBUJY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1308749883&sr=8-1
[14:39] <popey> looks sweet
[14:40] <AlanBell> it does. "Password: meenee" in the description is a bit odd
[14:41] <popey> hah
[14:42] <popey> wonder if unity will run on it
[14:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> Reading one the comments I wonder why they didn't use the OEM install?
[14:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> XWayland est ici http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTU4NA
[14:46] <gord> unity really only needs a certain feature set, so anything new, fast or slow, generally works as long as the drivers aren't terrible. can't find any specifications for that laptop though
[14:47] <andylockran> does <Directory /> apply to all subdirs of the apache config.. I thogut it did but Order deny, allow and deny from all.. and /var/www/site/ still displays...
[14:53] <MartijnVdS> andylockran: <Directory /> applies to all directories on the _filesystem_ it, unless overridden :)
[14:54] <andylockran> MartijnVdS: I thoguth do..
[14:54] <andylockran> I thought so
[14:58] <popey> http://clausoft.co.uk/
[15:00] <MartijnVdS> popey: but what is it?
[15:01] <MartijnVdS> popey: a map.. of what?
[15:02] <popey> people who make the laptop linked above
[15:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> Not a very compelling website with the first chuck of text restricting my freedoms.
[15:03] <gord> isn't it people who own the laptop?
[15:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-) http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110621192510777
[15:08]  * directhex moos
[15:09] <popey> gord: the map is
[15:09] <popey> the website isnt
[15:10] <gord> ah - gotcha
[15:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh shiny and fast: http://www.fastcompany.com/1761475/rocketplane-zehst-eads-paris-tokyo-jet-concorde
[15:12] <gord> didn't groklaw stop? i'm sure i remember reading that and  thats why i removed it from my rss
[15:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> gord no. PJ sort of retired.
[15:12] <BigRedS> gord: sort of
[15:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> But she handed over the reins.
[15:12] <BigRedS> yeah, with an "I'll try to retire" sort of message
[15:13] <gord> ah, worth re-adding back to my rss reader?
[15:21] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: i'm thinking of adding a tab labelled "App Store" to my blog ;)
[15:22] <MooDoo> i********** :)
[15:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[15:23] <MooDoo> #gobsmacked
[15:42] <daubers> directhex: \o/ How's the .net 4 portage going?
[15:43] <directhex> daubers, http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianMonoGroup/Mono210TransitionTODO and http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/mono.html
[15:43] <directhex> daubers, basically, all apps need to be done, then all libs and plugins can be done in one go
[15:43] <directhex> daubers, some things will need rebuilding more than once, for obtuse reasons. and some stuff needs more than a simple recompile
[15:44] <daubers> directhex: Cool :) I failed in my attempt to build it so I could use the newer monodevelop stuffs :(
[15:44] <directhex> daubers, monodevelop is one of the problematic ones. haven't had time to investigate. i'm largely handling the ubuntu side of the transition myself
[15:44] <directhex> debian side is a team effort, but hasn't started in the archive yet
[15:45] <daubers> directhex: I'm happy to wait at the moment.
[15:46] <daubers> directhex: When i get impatient, I'll find some time and help sorting stuffs where I can
[15:47] <ali1234> directhex: i spent the last 5 days writing excel macros using the office interop clr and now i'm about ready to stab someone in the face. i just thought you might like to know that
[15:48] <directhex> ali1234, wouldn't know, i've never written an excel macro
[15:48] <ali1234> someone needs to tell .net developers that making every single exception return "exception in HRESULT" and nothing else is not acceptable
[15:48] <directhex> and i only used word macros in the 90s for hacking the school network
[15:49] <ali1234> it must be karma i guess
[15:50] <ali1234> oh well, it was either this or do it all by hand
[16:42] <AlanBell> http://raceonline2012.org/partners?title=U
[16:43] <oimon> lol@ the picture of my driveway on the ubuntu-uk.org home page
[16:44] <gord> which one is yours, the train? or the mountains?
[16:44] <oimon> the classic cars outside big mansion
[16:45] <brobostigon> :)
[16:45] <dogmatic69> lol
[16:45] <oimon> i notice BBC Click the other day mentioned Windows, Mac and Linux, and popped up an icon on screen for each one...when they said "linux", they showed the ubuntu symbol !
[16:45] <dogmatic69> took 25 reloads
[16:45] <popey> :D
[16:46] <popey> http://ubuntu-uk.org/dev/headerimages/banner1.jpg
[16:46] <dogmatic69> oimon: they know nothing about computers :/
[16:46] <oimon> bbc click to real tech is what John Cravens newsround was to the news
[16:46] <popey> hahah
[16:47] <davmor2> oimon: haha
[16:47]  * popey tweets that
[16:48] <gord> heh nice, newsround is still going
[16:48] <oimon> notice you spared bbc click from a twitter mention :P
[16:48] <popey> yes
[16:48] <oimon> i wonder what age range john craven rings a bell with..prob 28-42
[16:49]  * popey fits in that range
[16:49] <popey> just
[16:49] <oimon> along with the grange hill theme featuring "the sausage"
[16:49] <popey> on a fork
[16:49] <oimon> :D
[16:49] <oimon> bada-BOW-WOW
[16:50] <oimon> http://www.transdiffusion.org/emc/behindthescreens/images/transdiffusion_2_sausage.jpg
[16:50] <gord> i've watched spaced so many times over the years, i now associate the grange hill theme more with that than with the original show :(
[16:51] <popey> i watched spaced in bed last night
[16:51] <popey> after getting really narked with the iplayer hanging
[16:51] <popey> switched to 4oD player
[16:53] <popey> btw oimon "my driveway"?
[16:53] <gord> hrm, do you have to have a tv licence to watch 4oD? i mean morally/legally not technically obviously
[16:53] <ali1234> only for live tv
[16:54] <oimon> maybe my driveway in my sims house
[16:54] <ali1234> not for iplayer catch up or 4od
[16:54] <ali1234> according to iplayer website anyway
[16:54] <gord> morally i don't watch iplayer stuff, i don't pay for that content so i don't think i should watch it
[16:54] <ali1234> well some of the licence fee goes to 4 as well
[16:54] <ali1234> so you shouldn't watch that either
[16:55] <gord> yeah thats what i'm thinking, but they do have ad's
[16:55] <ali1234> well you could just watch half the show
[16:55] <ali1234> but seriously, bbc gets funding from other sources than the licence too
[16:56] <oimon> mrs oimon just said "when we were in the pound shop he was saying "dada" over and over again at the top of his voice. think he knew it was ur fav shop"
[16:56] <oimon> wifey talking about my one yr old child
[16:57] <ali1234> have you seen that guy that reviews stuff he buys in the pound shop?
[16:57] <oimon> i get bottles of purdeys in there 2 for £1
[16:57] <oimon> sainsbury sell them £1.29 each at least
[16:58] <gord> ashens?
[16:58] <ali1234> yeah that's the one
[16:58] <gord> ashens is top notch entertainment
[16:58] <brobostigon> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/262273 why is it showing the video playback time,as being longer thanthe audio playbacktime, when video playback takes more power.
[16:59] <ali1234> does it though?
[17:00] <ali1234> DSP codecs are funny things
[17:00] <ali1234> N900 will play h264 video for longer than it will play ogg vorbis audio files
[17:00] <brobostigon> hmmm,
[17:00] <brobostigon> oh, ok.
[17:00] <ali1234> because one is DSP accelerated and the other isn't
[17:00] <brobostigon> maybe, that explains it.
[17:01] <ali1234> is that a tegra 2 one?
[17:01] <ali1234> cos you can get the advent one for same price, and it's supposed to be really good
[17:02] <brobostigon> ali1234: it doesnt say,
[17:02] <ali1234> http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/advent-vega-internet-tablet-08258762-pdt.html?srcid=198&mctag=gg_goog_7904&gclid=CIaSlLnxyakCFUoc4QodmBLRNg
[17:09] <Azelphur> MattJ: yay your here, jabber \o/
[17:09] <Azelphur> MattJ: when I try to connect to prosody from my phone using Xabber, It won't connect, and I get this in my prosody.log: info	Incoming s2s connection || info	s2s disconnected: nil->home.azelphur.com (stream closed)
[17:16] <Azelphur> I just bought my second expensive device that I know doesn't have Linux drivers :D
[17:16] <Azelphur> fun fun
[17:17] <popey> wossat?
[17:17] <Azelphur> a logitech G13, http://www.bravophotographers.com/JonathonBravoBlog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/logitechg13.jpg
[17:18] <bigcalm> Wossat?
[17:18] <Azelphur> extra bindable keys for gaming \o/
[17:18] <bigcalm> Right handed only?
[17:19] <Azelphur> yep
[17:19] <popey> Yeah, dont want none of those stinking lefties round here!
[17:19] <Azelphur> haha
[17:19] <bigcalm> Not sure how I'd use it myself, but I'm not everybody :)
[17:20] <bigcalm> I really must stop making holes (though the bedrock cavern streching off into the dark is kinda cool)
[17:24] <popey> the hall of JGJones ?
[17:25] <bigcalm> No, my own
[17:25] <popey> ah
[17:25] <bigcalm> WAH!
[17:26] <bigcalm> MC wiki is down
[17:26]  * bigcalm gets back to work
[17:27]  * davmor2 hits popey with his left hook and walks off mumbling about him hating lefties
[17:29]  * czajkowski trips davmor2 up
[17:30]  * davmor2 tickles czajkowski till she is in tears and ribs hurt from laughter
[17:30]  * MooDoo chuckles
[17:30]  * czajkowski glares
[17:30] <czajkowski> eh no
[17:30] <czajkowski> there shall be none of that
[17:30] <MooDoo> czajkowski: did you know i may be meeting davmor2 this weekend and all we're going to talk about is ways to annoy you lol
[17:30]  * popey puts a cat in the room
[17:31]  * MooDoo cackles
[17:31] <MooDoo> :)
[17:31] <czajkowski> popey: oi
[17:31] <czajkowski> MooDoo: so you'll meet davmor2 but not me
[17:31] <czajkowski> charming
[17:31] <davmor2> czajkowski: Muhahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahah!
[17:31] <davmor2> czajkowski: only cause we happen to be in the same place at the same time
[17:31] <MooDoo> czajkowski: don't worry i love you more
[17:32] <czajkowski> pfff
[17:32] <MooDoo> czajkowski: we both happen to be in bakewell this weekend
[17:33] <MooDoo> czajkowski: to make it up to you, i'll get you a bakewell pudding sent to your house ;)
[17:33] <popey> tart
[17:33] <MooDoo> lol
[17:33] <davmor2> popey: how dare you call MooDoo a tart, creep yes! but not a tart...
[17:34] <MooDoo> davmor2: shush i'm being nice to czajkowski for once
[17:34] <MooDoo> ok back on later...speak soon
[17:35] <davmor2> bye bye MooDoo
[17:58] <AlanBell> davmor2: in the same place at the same time O_o
[17:59] <AlanBell> that will disprove one of my pet theories
[17:59] <AlanBell> more of a conjecture I suppose
[17:59] <AlanBell> photographic proof will of course be required
[18:00] <davmor2> AlanBell: Well different Campsites but both in bakewell
[18:00] <davmor2> AlanBell: Yeah it's not just me on 2 computers with different nicks
[18:05] <danfish> evening
[18:05] <danfish> I'm really liking drupal 7
[18:06] <danfish> much better IMO
[18:06] <czajkowski> danfish: weirdo
[18:06] <Azelphur> danfish: me too, it's nice :)
[18:06] <davmor2> daubers: ping-a-ling how's you getting on with win 7
[18:06] <danfish> czajkowski: be nice ;)
[18:07] <danfish> you're eating MooDoo's Bakewell tart this weekend....but remember that laxatives don't taste of anything when mixed into cake :P
[18:08] <davmor2> danfish: don't give me ideas
[18:08] <davmor2> czajkowski: tell him, he's given me ideas
[18:09]  * danfish has a severe case of foot in mouth disease
[18:09]  * czajkowski peers at danfish 
[18:10] <czajkowski> danfish: you won't be allowed hang around with davmor2 or MooDoo any more if you keep this up
[18:11] <danfish> czajkowski: hah - I can give you better methods for revenge ;)
[18:12] <bigcalm> Hayley is out for the evening, so that means Chinese Take-away!
[18:12] <bigcalm> But, what to have?!
[18:12] <danfish> bigcalm: easy, a number 4, 28, 62 and 3
[18:13] <gord> alllll the chinese food
[18:13] <czajkowski> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Tk2W7CyYNs
[18:13] <czajkowski> pretty sweet video
[18:14] <bigcalm> danfish: 4: Chicken and noodle soup, 28: Spare ribs - plum sauce, 62: Roast pork and pineapple fried rice, 3: Chicken and mushroom soup
[18:16] <danfish> bigcalm: ah, one too many soups..try a 47
[18:16] <bigcalm> 47: Roast pork and roast duck fried rice
[18:18] <bigcalm> I do fancy as a starter 11: Yuk-shung (minced pork and vegetables with lettuce)
[18:19] <danfish> that does sound good
[18:19]  * danfish slams in the lamb
[18:20] <bigcalm> I fear I shall be spending far too much at the Chinese Take-away, yet again
[18:37] <jacobw> evening
[18:44] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Tk2W7CyYNs&feature=player_detailpage#t=164s
[18:45] <ali1234> ^ is that guy speaking english?
[18:45] <Core_UK> evening jacobw
[18:46] <gord> ali1234, nope, Chinese
[18:46] <ali1234> its really hard to tell when every other words is "OEM group"
[18:46] <ali1234> i guess they're the OEM group??
[18:46] <gord> their the shanghai branch
[18:46] <gord> they work with the OEM team
[18:49] <daubers> lo
[18:49] <jacobw> there's a very similar video by cisco kicking about
[18:49] <jacobw> 'why be an engineer'
[18:49] <jacobw> o/ daubers
[18:50] <jacobw> actually, i've downgrade my comparison from very to similar to just similar
[18:50]  * daubers needs to send a very important question to apple :(
[18:53] <czajkowski> gord: no videos of you yet
[18:53] <czajkowski> few of TREllis knocking about
[18:54] <gord> why would there be videos of me? i'm not important
[18:54] <gord> also, when they say "Multicultural" i don't think they really mean "northern"
[18:54] <ali1234> but but but i thought canonical makes you feel special
[18:59] <BigRedS> 'northern' is quite specificall not 'cultural'
[19:00] <jacobw> notherners have a lot of cultures :P
[19:01] <BigRedS> haha
[19:18] <AlanBell> so does yoghurt
[19:21] <BigRedS> yeah, that was the sort of cultures I suspected he was referring to
[19:26] <gord> bloody southerners, the lot of you :P
[19:27] <hamitron> gord +1
[19:27] <hamitron> :)
[19:30] <popey> directhex: does the banshee U1MS plugin support linking to music in the U1MS?
[19:30] <popey> like what the rhythmbox one does
[19:31] <AlanBell> bug 723960
[19:33] <Core_UK> ok when i do not move my mouse i get a faint (but annoyin) buzzing sound on my headphones...
[19:34] <Core_UK> think my front port is goofed?
[19:35] <popey> https://one.ubuntu.com/music/l/9717779/21
[19:35] <popey> does that work for you then AlanBell
[19:36] <AlanBell> hmm, launches banshee
[19:37] <AlanBell> and if I click it again after clicking on the Ubutu one music store in banshee it works
[19:37] <popey> good
[19:37] <AlanBell> ok, so it works if banshee is already running
[19:38] <AlanBell> if it has to launch banshee it doesn't actually go to the right place
[19:38] <gord> Core_UK, fairly common with onboard sound
[19:38] <gord> Core_UK, i have a usb adapter, works great because it means its a digital signal going over the motherboard rather than analogue
[19:38] <AlanBell> Core_UK: does it do the same with the power unplugged (assuming it is a laptop)
[19:39] <Core_UK> It is mains only AlanBell
[19:39] <Core_UK> yeah it is on-board sound
[19:39] <jacobw> sounds like EM interference then
[19:39] <Core_UK> I dont understand how moving the mouse stops it though
[19:40] <AlanBell> probably cursor moving rather than mouse
[19:40] <AlanBell> does running something like glxgears stop it too?
[19:40] <Core_UK> ill test
[19:40] <AlanBell> just to get movement on the screen
[19:41] <Core_UK> no
[19:41] <gord> its really just because there is a change
[19:41] <Core_UK> its not screen movement
[19:41] <gord> so the computer is doing something different
[19:41] <gord> which means you get different interference
[19:42] <ali1234> yes. if you provide no input the the computer it will just run through the same input polling loops over and over in a deterministic way, which gives a fixed frequency interference
[19:42] <Core_UK> on windows I could use my mic-in port for headphones
[19:42] <ali1234> if you move the mouse then that's pseudo random input - the interference will move around all frequencies and become less noticable
[19:42] <gord> all my different video games end up making different interference sounds on mine :)
[19:43] <Core_UK> ok :)
[19:43] <gord> but yeah, little usb thing will do wonders
[19:43] <ali1234> btw the way you fix that problem is to turn the master mixer down and turn the wave mixer up, or vice versa
[19:44] <Core_UK> how do I get to that from within 11.04 ali1234 ?
[19:44] <ali1234> good question
[19:44] <Core_UK> the sound utility doesnt seem that have that option
[19:44] <BigRedS> alsamixer might do it?
[19:45] <BigRedS> or alsamixergui
[19:45] <AlanBell> pavucontrol
[19:45] <ali1234> alsamixer will do it, yes
[19:46] <ali1234> pavucontrol won't do it
[19:49] <Core_UK> alsamixergui only offers master and capture
[19:58] <Core_UK> can anyone recommend a usb sound card that works well with linux?
[20:04] <Core_UK> or will any work?
[20:04] <gord> Core_UK, http://www.amazon.co.uk/Griffin-GC16031-Quality-Recording-Playback/dp/B000BVV2IC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1308769480&sr=8-1 has worked wonders for me
[20:05] <gord> "just works"
[20:25] <dwatkins> I have a Griffic iMic, the older style one, it works fine.
[20:33] <Core_UK> Can anyone recommend a good sci-fi series with a few seasons worth of content not stargate or startrek (finished them all :P)
[20:33] <gord> farscape
[20:33] <gord> half its episodes are just awful but the other half are really good
[20:34] <Core_UK> by first half you mean the first 2 seasons?
[20:35] <Core_UK> oh it has the main guy out of SG:A in it :)
[20:35] <dwatkins> Core_UK: Fringe
[20:36] <Core_UK> someone has recommended Fringe before
[20:36] <Core_UK> the fact it is not in space puts me off though :|
[20:36] <dwatkins> It's excellent, I can completely understand why they would do that ;)
[20:37] <dwatkins> It's fine, you don't need fake sounds in space to make good sci-fi :)
[20:37] <dwatkins> BSG is set in space but I found it as boring as Eastenders at times.
[20:37] <dwatkins> [the new series, that is]
[20:38] <Core_UK> yeah i found that
[20:41] <Core_UK> BSG made number 1 the top 50 i am reading ><
[20:41] <Core_UK> beating SG and ST o.O
[20:43] <AlanBell> http://gong.ust.hk/nanogong/nanogong42.html does this work for anyone?
[20:43] <AlanBell> java applet to run, does the top one record sound and play it back OK?
[20:44] <dwatkins> ooh, food time
[20:51] <Core_UK> AlanBell: yeah seems to work
[20:52] <AlanBell> thanks, seems to be some temporary pulse oddness here, mine works now too
[21:13] <suprengr> Topic for #ubuntu-uk-meeting is: Next meeting Wednesday June 22nd at 21:00 BST [cough] ;)
[21:13] <popey> hehe
[21:14] <brobostigon> lol
[21:14] <popey> happens more often than you'd imagine!
[21:14] <bigcalm> Thought it was quiet
[21:14] <bigcalm> Can anyone join?
[21:14] <suprengr> so quiet... /me hears Bjork ???
[21:14]  * brobostigon is there.
[21:15] <BigRedS> is that now?
[21:15] <BigRedS> ah yeah
[21:26] <MooDoo> hello all
[21:33] <popey> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/06/22/s04e09-brave-new-world/
[21:33] <popey> *cough*
[21:33]  * MartijnVdS gives popey a glass of water
[21:33]  * popey gargles
[21:33] <MartijnVdS> .. a song?
[21:34]  * brobostigon says BOO near popey 
[21:35]  * brobostigon was evil, and is sorry,
[21:35]  * bigcalm kicks iTunes into life
[21:35] <AlanBell> an Alan heavy episode
[21:36]  * MartijnVdS pokes Google Listen
[21:36]  * brobostigon hasnt found much usefor google listen.
[21:37] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I'm in public transport 2 hours/day.. it's useful for UUPC, TIMC and several other podcasts :)
[21:38] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, yes, in that case :)
[21:38] <popey> yay TIMC
[21:38] <popey> I also enjoy The Doctor Who Podcast
[21:38] <brobostigon> :)
[21:38] <gord> this is just weird now, every day my xbmc install's on my revos have x crash
[21:38] <gord> i haven't upgraded them or modified them, its so strange
[21:40] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: thats allong time, and you need entertainment.
[21:41] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: exactly, and I can't read books all the time :)
[21:41] <MartijnVdS> so I have audiobooks and podcasts
[21:41] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
[21:41] <MartijnVdS> Harry Potter read by Stephen Fry++
[21:41]  * brobostigon wants hhgttg as an audiobook.
[21:42] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: there's the radio broadcasts
[21:42] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: a few,yes.
[21:42] <MartijnVdS> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hitchhikers-Guide-Galaxy-Complete-Radio/dp/0563504196
[21:42]  * brobostigon reads
[21:43] <brobostigon> £49, umm.
[21:43] <marsilainen> hi, how should I go about ripping my (movie) DVDs? I want to keep them in full quality format, and watch them with menus still active etc, just without putting the physical discs into the machine
[21:43] <MartijnVdS> only 22.22kg :P
[21:44] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: true,
[21:44] <MartijnVdS> wait.. I'm converting the wrong kind of Pound :P
[21:44] <diplo-> marsilainen, can just take a copy of the iso
[21:44] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: quite, i wasnt concentrating.
[21:45] <diplo-> Depends if you want to save space as well
[21:45] <jacobw> TIMC is *awesome*
[21:45] <diplo-> programs like dvd9to5
[21:45] <MartijnVdS> marsilainen: you can try dvdbackup
[21:45] <jacobw> dvd::rip
[21:45] <marsilainen> diplo: I'm not interested in saving space - I'm happy to just take a full iso
[21:45] <diplo-> If you are not worried about size just copy the iso
[21:45] <marsilainen> what is the easy way to copy from physical disk to iso?
[21:45] <MartijnVdS> marsilainen: dd?
[21:45] <marsilainen> ok
[21:46] <MartijnVdS> (does that work on encrypted DVDs? I don't know)
[21:46] <marsilainen> and then how do I view the menus on that?
[21:46] <popey> marsilainen: dvd::rip
[21:46] <dwatkins> marsilainen: Handbrake
[21:46]  * dwatkins grins at popey 
[21:46] <popey> http://www.exit1.org/dvdrip/
[21:46] <diplo-> Handbrake won't  leave menus dwatkins ?
[21:46] <popey> ^^ marsilainen
[21:46] <marsilainen> ok, thanks
[21:47] <diplo-> marsilainen, from MartijnVdS comment, just this will copy dd if=/dev/dvd of=mydvd.iso
[21:47] <jacobw> dvd::rip is good because you can rip the data [fairly] quickly and transcode it later
[21:47] <MartijnVdS> diplo-: except if it's encrypted
[21:47] <marsilainen> so, hang on, the dd option is no good for encrypted dvds?
[21:47] <MartijnVdS> marsilainen: I think so, yes. You can always try of course
[21:47] <marsilainen> dvd::rip will keep the full quality of the dvd with menus?
[21:47] <brobostigon> the iso will therefore also be encrypted.
[21:48] <diplo-> Fine if libdvdcss is installed afaik
[21:48] <jacobw> it'll do exactly what its supposed to, create an exact copy of the disc
[21:48] <MartijnVdS> diplo-: dd doesn't know about libdvdcss
[21:48] <brobostigon> jacobw: exactly.
[21:48] <marsilainen> even if it's encrypted then I can still watch it with vlc or whatever right? I mean, wont that do the unencrypting using libdvdcss or whatever?
[21:48] <diplo-> No but the programs mounting/playing the iso's do
[21:49] <brobostigon> i suppose you couldplay the *.iso with vlc, with libdvdcss installd ?
[21:49] <jacobw> why wouldn't that be playable using a libdvdcss aware media player?
[21:49] <diplo-> yeah, + alot of media players will auto mount iso's
[21:49] <marsilainen> ok, so if I rip with dd to a .iso, and then use vlc I should be good?
[21:49] <marsilainen> I shall give it a go...
[21:49] <jacobw> yes
[21:49] <brobostigon> marsilainen: with libdvdcss installed, yes,
[21:50] <jacobw> unless there's something i don't know about css
[21:50] <marsilainen> ok, thanks guys, I'll give it a go and report back :)
[21:53]  * jacobw downloads the popeycast
[22:05] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Ubuntu-ie and Canonical Meet up in Dublin - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/06/22/ubuntu-ie-and-canonical-meet-up-in-dublin/
[22:05] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E09  Brave New World - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/06/22/s04e09-brave-new-world/
[22:05] <marsilainen> ok, using dd to rip a dvd to a .iso, and then vlc to watch it worked for 1 disc
[22:05] <marsilainen> for another couple though it failed to copy with dd
[22:06] <marsilainen> copy protection maybe?
[22:06] <MartijnVdS> maybe
[22:06] <marsilainen> I got: dd: reading `/dev/dvd': Input/output error
[22:06] <MartijnVdS> marsilainen: try vlc on the disk first (to unlock it)
[22:06] <MartijnVdS> marsilainen: _then_ dd
[22:06] <marsilainen> hmm, ok
[22:06] <marsilainen> so what, run vlc on the disc, then close vlc and dd?
[22:07] <marsilainen> or leave vlc running the whole time?
[22:08] <MartijnVdS> I don't know, try several permutations and see which one works :)
[22:11] <marsilainen> I tried that and it got further - it got up to 1.2GB this time instead of failing soon after starting
[22:11] <marsilainen> but it still failed in the end :/
[22:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> Fun and a bit weird - Only in Sweden: http://t.co/Dns7Q82
[22:13] <diplo-> dirty disc marsilainen ?
[22:14] <marsilainen> diplo-: I don't think so, I keep my discs well, and I've tried with 2 discs from the same box set now with same result
[22:14] <marsilainen> the distributor is Sony Entertainment which makes me wonder if copy protection issue...
[22:15] <marsilainen> I can watch these discs fine if I use vlc direct on the disc to watch
[22:19] <daubers> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13874049 <- That is ace!
[22:19] <daubers> Spongiforma squarepantsii ftw \o/
[22:20] <diplo-> I've had a few issues with a few discs copying them marsilainen ended up using dvdshrink with wine worked in the end
[22:20] <diplo-> But i rip most of mine to mkv's to keep chapters but loose the menus
[22:21] <marsilainen> diplo-: ok, sure, thanks, will bare that in mind
[22:21] <marsilainen> I'd still like to keep the extra features etc
[22:21] <marsilainen> I literally want a copy of all my discs in a more convenient way to watch them
[22:21] <marsilainen> dd seems like it will work for some at least
[22:22] <diplo-> yeah I debated that, but I thought the amount I ever watch extras is that I get the dvd out if i ever wanted that, saves loads of space then
[22:22] <marsilainen> yeah, everyone is different I guess :)
[22:23] <marsilainen> for me, I don't have so many discs and disk space is cheap so I'd rather have everything on tap
[22:23] <marsilainen> YMMV
[22:23] <diplo-> :)
[22:23] <diplo-> #600-700 dvd's
[22:23] <diplo-> So yeah space is an issue for me :)
[22:29] <marsilainen> yep, fair enough :)
[22:30] <marsilainen> I guess I've only bought ~50 DVDs so far, so it's not a big deal for me :)
[22:30] <marsilainen> I only buy things I really like
[22:31] <brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
[22:35] <directhex> popey: i think that was the plan. i no longer develop the plugin, canonical people do