[03:47] <Unit193> micahg: I'm really not sure if it counts, but I just crashed FF using downloadhelper
[03:47] <micahg> Unit193: cool, can you report the crash to mozilla
[03:48] <micahg> Unit193: I actually had Firefox 5 pushed out already, but thanks
[03:48] <micahg> we can still get stuff fixed though
[03:48] <micahg> Firefox 6 is 8 weeks away :)
[03:49] <Unit193> Looks like I'm a bit behind...
[03:49] <Unit193> Sorry about that :P
[03:50] <micahg> Unit193: no problem, there were only a few who answered my call for testing
[03:50] <micahg> Unit193: like I said, we can still get stuff fixed
[03:51] <micahg> there are still plenty of bugs in Firefox :) I just wanted to catch regressions
[03:52] <Unit193> micahg: Once I download this, I'll see if I can do it again
[06:04] <astraljava> charlie-tca: Damnit! I never realized that! However, the login screen should give some pointers for that, I think. It isn't obvious as it is, hell, it isn't intuitive in the least bit at the moment.
[06:04] <astraljava> charlie-tca: There's just my name (as full name for my user), then Other...
[06:04] <astraljava> The session selection comes only after clicking on the Other...
[06:05] <astraljava> But yeah, thanks for the pointer!
[12:57] <charlie-tca> That's the kind of things we "testers" have to be looking for. How else do we if things are usable broken or unusable broken?
[12:58] <charlie-tca> astraljava: ^  ^  
[13:18] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: will the umask change affect us at all?
[13:18] <charlie-tca> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/umask-to-0002
[13:35] <astraljava> charlie-tca: Yep. :)
[14:08] <charlie-tca>  we got the xubuntu slideshow back
[14:19] <mr_pouit> yes, it will affect all variants
[14:20] <charlie-tca> Maybe not the right question. Will it create any additional work for us or can we just let it happen?
[14:20] <mr_pouit> no, just let it happen
[14:20] <charlie-tca> Thanks
[14:20] <charlie-tca> That's the answer I hoped for
[15:39] <ochosi> mr_pouit: thanks for subscribing me to the artwork-bugs
[15:40] <ochosi> mr_pouit: i think i'd rather drop the dropbox icons than fix them in elementaryXubuntu, i don't even wanna start supporting 3rd party stuff, it's a never ending story...
[16:00] <charlie-tca> ochosi: I see one or two pixels to the right of the scrollbar in most windows that is not usable. If I click within that space, nothing happens. 
[16:00] <charlie-tca> Also, sometimes in firefox, the scrollbars disappear
[16:00] <charlie-tca> (oneiric with latest greybird from git
[16:03] <ochosi> charlie-tca: hm, can't confirm the firefox issue in natty, maybe an oneiric specific problem?
[16:03] <charlie-tca> could be
[16:03] <ochosi> think with the scrollbar it's only 1px border
[16:03] <charlie-tca> might not even be firefox, of course. Maybe something with the latest Xorg or who knows yet
[16:04] <ochosi> not sure it's worth the sacrifice of general looks for firefox's fullscreen behavior...
[16:04] <ochosi> mhm
[16:04] <charlie-tca> Never used fullscreen
[16:04] <ochosi> sry, meant maximized
[16:04] <ochosi> but in fact i rarely use maximized either ;)
[16:05] <charlie-tca> me too
[16:05] <charlie-tca> I run almost everything in smaller windows, since I keep dasher on the right, and it needs some space without being on top of applications
[16:06] <charlie-tca> The white space right of scrollbar is okay if we can't change it. 
[16:06] <charlie-tca> The firefox thing, I don't know yet. I haven't pinned it down far enough yet
[16:06] <charlie-tca> Just thought I would give you a heads up on it
[16:19] <ochosi> charlie-tca: k, thanks!
[16:21] <charlie-tca> no problem, I hope I didn't upset you with it. I just intended to let you know, and see if you knew about it yet
[16:23] <ochosi> hehe, no, no problem
[16:23] <ochosi> i'm not *that* sensitive ;)
[16:23] <ochosi> just wanted to prevent people from screaming: "what did you do with the old theme?!" ;)
[16:24] <GridCube> what did you do to it?
[16:24] <GridCube> :P
[16:25] <ochosi> hehe
[16:25] <ochosi> you don't want to know ;)
[16:25] <ochosi> in fact i just made a new iteration of it, since you're asking: http://imagebin.org/159501
[16:25] <GridCube> :P
[16:25] <ochosi> charlie-tca: i think this is by far the best scrollbar we had so far ^
[16:25] <GridCube> :) thats nice, im more fond of dark themes tho
[16:26] <ochosi> yeah, maybe we'll do a dark theme one day
[16:26] <ochosi> i always thought of tweaking/modernizing NOX
[16:26] <GridCube> thats why i use albatross :D
[16:27] <ochosi> yeah, i might fix a few things there for the upcoming release
[16:27] <ochosi> but it's getting increasingly difficult to manage everything
[16:27] <ochosi> 3 themes (albatross, bluebird, greybird) and all would need some attention
[16:27] <GridCube> It is understable
[16:27] <ochosi> especially gtk3 variants...
[16:27] <GridCube> oh, that sounds messy
[16:28] <ochosi> well i could use some help with all of that
[16:28] <ochosi> but seems i'll be alone for another cycle :)
[16:28] <GridCube> :( i don't know any programing at all
[16:28] <ochosi> it's not really so much programming
[16:28] <ochosi> but yes, you should no a few things about gtk and about the engines you're using
[16:28] <ochosi> it's mostly about being creative
[16:29] <GridCube> :P maybe in a few months i will be able to do that kind of things, maybe if i start doing simple things now?
[16:30] <ochosi> you can always start out easy by modifying existing themes
[16:30] <GridCube> :P
[16:30] <GridCube> im afraid of broking things
[16:31] <ochosi> heh
[16:31] <ochosi> it's not really that dangerous
[16:31] <GridCube> breaking? men i need to know that word
[16:32] <ochosi> :)
[16:32] <ochosi> gotta go, catch you later
[16:32] <GridCube> :=
[16:32] <GridCube> :)
[17:04] <charlie-tca> GridCube: images are working today, except live desktop
[17:05] <charlie-tca> hoping the scrollbar doesn't go blending into the theme completely again
[17:06] <GridCube> :) im doing the alternate test since like an hour ago, it really takes  lot of time, this time i disconected the internet from the vbox, else it would be like 5 hours installing like yesterdays
[17:07] <GridCube> will do the updates once the system is installed, i don't understand why this isn't always the case
[17:09] <charlie-tca> You must be on that slow connection again
[17:09] <charlie-tca> The updates are downloading automatically by mistake, which is why as soon as the install is done, you get the update-manager icon on the login
[17:10] <charlie-tca> The only way to keep them from downloading during the installation (and slowing it down) is by disconnecting the internet completely
[17:11] <GridCube> thats what i did
[17:12] <GridCube> and im toping at 320kBs so i don't think is my conection, but it might be
[17:13] <charlie-tca> Mine are installing in about 45 minutes, with my slow connection
[17:16] <GridCube> mmm then it migh be something else
[17:16] <charlie-tca> yeah, maybe something is stealing bandwidth. I get between 87 and 150kbs here
[17:17] <charlie-tca> You should be able to do the install in 45 minutes, max, at that high speed
[18:06] <GridCube> :) installed, that problem whit thunar and first opens remain (today i recived a mail from that bug report saying it was fixed on a new version of thunar)
[18:08] <charlie-tca> yes, but we don't get the fixes immediately. It should happen in the next week, though
[18:10] <GridCube> yep i figured that much
[18:10] <charlie-tca> We might have the thunar fix tomorrow, it was synced today.
[18:13] <GridCube> question, setting a wallpaper from firefox does actually work?
[18:25] <GridCube> :) ok tests passed
[18:25] <GridCube> boot, reboot, update, reboot, language updates, reboot, internets, reboot
[18:25] <GridCube> anything else to be tested?
[18:27] <charlie-tca> That's good. Thanks for doing it
[18:27] <charlie-tca> Did you update the chart?
[18:27] <GridCube> :) nope, i was about to
[18:28] <charlie-tca> :)
[18:29] <GridCube> done
[18:31] <Unit193> Ever find drc?
[18:33] <charlie-tca> nope
[18:34] <charlie-tca> I hope nothing happened in California or on the way home
[18:49] <Unit193> Last seen  : (about 2 weeks ago)
[18:50] <charlie-tca> yeah, I know
[18:50] <charlie-tca> No response to email, either
[19:19] <Unit193> I got his address and # if you really want to give him a call :P
[19:21] <charlie-tca> nope
[19:22] <charlie-tca> If he doesn' t respond to email, I won't call
[19:22] <charlie-tca> Just one more person that disappeared
[19:24] <Unit193> I think he's 55-59
[19:25] <Unit193> (I'm still here and I still plan to test when others don't)
[19:28] <charlie-tca> yup, maybe even 60, and a good tester, too
[19:30] <Unit193> I try my best, but the good ones have more experience than I
[19:35] <charlie-tca> They don't stay around too long... ;)
[19:36] <charlie-tca> new and here, experienced and gone, I will take the new everytime
[19:40] <Unit193> I always come back. Normally I find the sheet already has the tests for today
[19:44] <charlie-tca> It's okay to do them again, or even do different ones
[19:44] <charlie-tca> especially if today's have all been done.
[19:51] <Unit193> Thanks for sending the minutes of the meetings, I like to read up, but it's still really nice to have them if I forget anything!
[19:55] <charlie-tca> It's good for those who miss the meetings too. Sometimes people just can't/won't attend, but want to know what is happening anyway.
[19:55]  * charlie-tca slaps head
[19:55] <charlie-tca> You are welcome, Unit193 
[19:55] <charlie-tca> Happy to be of service
[19:55] <GridCube> :D
[19:57] <Unit193> charlie-tca: I can't really make any of the meetings :(
[19:57] <charlie-tca> That's okay. You can always bring stuff up here or on the mailing list
[20:08] <charlie-tca> I broke it
[20:15] <charlie-tca> Maybe I fixed it
[20:16] <Unit193> How did you bork it?
[20:17] <charlie-tca> changed a js
[20:18] <charlie-tca> changed a shortcut key, it makes most of the letters not work no more
[20:18]  * Unit193 is more irssi
[20:18] <Unit193> I have seen some nice features I would like from weechat, but I'll live...
[20:19] <charlie-tca> irssi is hard to use ;)
[20:19] <charlie-tca> afterall, it is 'Terminal' only
[20:25] <Unit193> Same with weechat... And mine is more GUI than the one pleia2 uses...
[20:28] <pleia2> I use irssi
[20:29] <Unit193> pleia2: Sorry for the ping... I know you do, my config just makes it more GUI like :)
[20:30] <pleia2> :)
[20:30] <charlie-tca> hm, I really want something close to Xchat, that works with dasher
[20:31] <charlie-tca> weechat is the closest thing I can find, and it is not even close to xchat
[20:31] <charlie-tca> At least I can make it work, sort of :)
[21:01] <charlie-tca> knome: why doesn't shimmer have albatross, bluebird, greybird in xfce yet?
[21:38] <knome> charlie-tca, you mean xfce-look.org?
[21:39] <charlie-tca> Don't quite know. THere was a user in #xfce looking for a dark theme. When I brought up albatross and bluebird, they don't know about them
[21:40] <knome> mmh.
[21:40] <knome> is that user TCW ?
[21:40] <charlie-tca> So I thought "why aren't these default themes in xfwm and appearance?
[21:40] <charlie-tca> yes, I told him try #shimmer
[21:40] <knome> right, you mean that
[21:41] <charlie-tca> They got a ton of themes there, but most don't compare to your themes
[21:41] <knome> i don't actually know. i suppose we could undertake a project with the xfce design SIG to clear up the theme and wallpaper catalog
[21:41] <knome> yeah.
[21:42] <charlie-tca> I don't know how to do it, but it is an idea
[21:42] <knome> that's what the xfce design sig is for
[21:42] <knome> that reminds me that i should blog about it
[21:43] <charlie-tca> yup
[21:46] <Unit193> What's the traffic and topic of #shimmer? (I can guess some of it)
[21:46] <GridCube> I don't know a lot about what you are talking about, but i would like to say that i find really anoying how hided and obscure the walpapers folder for xfce is, i've symbolic linked it to a folder into ~/ now
[21:47] <knome> the topic of #shimmer is our projects (see http://shimmerproject.org/). we also discuss about some design decisions or proposals for for example greybird
[21:48] <knome> of course we are bringing the news about new features or changed stuff here as well, but we're saving you from the artist-artist argumentation ;)
[21:48] <knome> feel free to join us, though
[21:49] <GridCube> but you do support albatross rigth? will it be one of the choosable themes on the future, or it will only be grey/bluebird
[21:49] <Unit193> I like getting the news, but if I can get it here, I don't really need to join (As I wouldn't have much to add)
[21:49] <knome> albatross is already included in xubuntu
[21:49] <knome> and it's being supported
[21:50] <knome> and we're giving it a facelift this year
[21:50] <charlie-tca> I know it is in Xubuntu, but not in the rest of the xfce distros, right?
[21:50] <GridCube> :D awesome thats the theme i use, i don't really like shiny themes
[21:50] <knome> not many visual changes, but just bringing it to 2011 and making it work well with the current murrine
[21:50] <knome> charlie-tca, yup. i'm just working on it ;)
[21:50] <charlie-tca> When I look in settings -> Appearance, I get a huge list of themes
[21:51] <knome> charlie-tca, yes.
[21:51] <charlie-tca> heh, I think we are on the same page, just confused again
[21:55] <knome> charlie-tca, http://open.knome.fi/2011/06/22/xfce-design-sig-launches/ (going to be aggregated to planet ubuntu)
[21:57] <charlie-tca> Good, I tried to publicize it a bit in the meeting, too
[22:00] <knome> charlie-tca, added a new item @ https://wiki.xfce.org/design/start, see page bottom
[22:01] <charlie-tca> That's the idea!
[22:03] <GridCube> :P what about mine? XD linking the walpaper folder to the ~/Images/ folder?
[22:03] <knome> GridCube, imo that's not really a xfce design sig item, and probably not an xfce item.
[22:03] <GridCube> :( ok
[22:04] <knome> ~/Images/ is *buntu*-specific (or if not specific, it's not at least general/obligatory)
[22:04] <GridCube> who is it then? xdg?
[22:04] <knome> xubuntu, i'd say, pretty much.
[22:04] <charlie-tca> I suspect it is distro local, yes
[22:05] <Unit193> ~/Images/wallpaper would be better,,,
[22:05] <knome> but imo the wallpapers can't be just everything that is in ~/Images/ either, since for one, i hate people forcing me to have a non-hidden folder in home
[22:05] <GridCube> well a ~/backdrops ? having the walpapers folders on /usr/dontknow/dontknoweither/noidea is really anoying
[22:05] <knome> as i said, i will vote against any non-hidden directory in home
[22:05] <charlie-tca> oh, yeah, I guess it is
[22:05] <GridCube> knome, yeah that was my bad, i meanted ~/Images/whatever
[22:06] <knome> GridCube, i don't have ~/Images/, so that would still force me to have that
[22:06] <charlie-tca> GridCube: have you submitted the wishlist bug for that yet?
[22:06] <GridCube> no
[22:06] <Unit193> knome: Do you have Pictures?
[22:06] <GridCube> just comenting that up
[22:06] <knome> maybe something like a symlink from .config/xfce-wallpapers to the wallpapers directory...
[22:06] <charlie-tca> talk will not usually result in much action.
[22:07] <knome> Unit193, nope, in my ~, i only have Desktop, and then just some temporary/current files (so nothing permanent except Desktop)
[22:07] <Unit193> I like the idea of ~/.config/something 
[22:08] <Unit193> knome: Comes by default for me :/
[22:08] <knome> Unit193, i know, but you are able to remove those
[22:08] <knome> Unit193, if the wallpaper directory is there, it's not wise to do that
[22:13] <astraljava> knome: I'm dumb, so out of curiosity, where do you keep your personal files? (sorry, completely OT)
[22:13] <knome> astraljava, /data/knome/
[22:13] <astraljava> Ok.
[22:13] <knome> astraljava, which is a completely different HD
[22:13] <GridCube> well, a ~/config/wallpapers folder then, it will really simplify things up
[22:13] <GridCube> .c^
[22:14] <knome> GridCube, mmh. mr_pouit might have a better idea, but something like that might work
[22:14] <charlie-tca> submit it as a wishlist bug, give several ideas on how to resolve it.
[22:14] <GridCube> charlie-tca, how to start a wishlist bug?
[22:23] <GridCube> D: i can't find a "submit" link anywhere
[22:27] <charlie-tca> open terminal, type ubuntu-bug xubuntu-meta, it opens a bug report in firefox, then give it a title, put your ideas in the next block, scroll to the bottom and hit save/submit/enter/whatever the thing is
[22:29] <GridCube> >the package xubuntu-meta doesnt exist
[22:30] <GridCube> :(
[22:30] <charlie-tca> well!
[22:30] <GridCube> frell?
[22:30] <charlie-tca> does xubuntu-default-settings exist?
[22:30] <GridCube> nope, nothing whit xu excep xulrunner
[22:31] <charlie-tca> where are you looking?
[22:31] <GridCube> bash and 2 tabs?
[22:31] <charlie-tca> no
[22:31] <charlie-tca> type it. ubuntu-bug xubuntu-meta
[22:31] <GridCube> i did...
[22:31] <charlie-tca> It is not an application, but a source package. bash won't know about it
[22:32] <GridCube> http://imagebin.org/159548
[22:33] <charlie-tca> instead of xubuntu-meta, use ubuntu-bug xubuntu-default-settings
[22:33] <GridCube> default-settings do work :D
[22:33] <charlie-tca> it does exist
[22:34] <GridCube> :) thanks charlie-tca , sorry for bothering so much
[22:34] <charlie-tca> np
[22:34] <charlie-tca> At least we got it, right?
[22:34] <GridCube> :D yes
[22:37] <GridCube> should i add up there the fact that firefox "use this image as a wallpaper" do not work on xubuntu?
[22:38] <charlie-tca> That should be a separate bug, shouldn't it? I did not know firefox can use the wallpaper, even
[22:38] <charlie-tca> but, yeah, throw that into the bug report. If it works for Ubuntu, say that, too.
[22:38] <charlie-tca> and steps to do that, will help
[22:42] <GridCube> i don't know if it works on ubuntu
[22:43] <charlie-tca> Tell us how to make it happen, if you can
[22:58] <GridCube> oh... i just figured something... the folder is outside ~/ because of multiple users
[22:59] <GridCube> if the folder is in ~/.config/backdrops   then another user wont be able to see those wallpapers
[22:59] <GridCube> even if symlinked?
[23:02] <charlie-tca> right, only the logged in user sees ~/.config
[23:03] <charlie-tca> so each user would need the links or files
[23:03] <knome> charlie-tca, errm, no?
[23:03] <GridCube> yes, im considering that on my whislist message
[23:03] <knome> charlie-tca, if the directory is linked, everybody will see the (updated) content
[23:04] <knome> as long as it is not single files
[23:04] <charlie-tca> We used to link to /usr/share/Example_Content in ~/Example_Content. maybe something similar would work?
[23:04] <knome> charlie-tca, exactly, but in ~/.hidden :)
[23:04] <charlie-tca> knome: no one except the user can see ~/
[23:04] <charlie-tca> that is each users /home, not a public directory
[23:05] <charlie-tca> /usr/share/??? is public, and all users have access
[23:05] <knome> charlie-tca, yes... but if that's symlinked to /usr/share..
[23:05] <charlie-tca> Then it has to be done for each user
[23:05] <knome> yes
[23:05] <knome> as /Example_Content
[23:06] <charlie-tca> right, only the logged in user sees ~/.config]
[23:06] <charlie-tca> is correct
[23:09] <knome> yes, but if that is symlinked to /usr, what's the problem?
[23:09] <Unit193> permissions?
[23:10] <charlie-tca> I didn't say there was one. You told me I was wrong
[23:10] <knome> the permissions are the same as they are in /usr
[23:11] <knome> charlie-tca, okay :P i was assumed you thought there was a problem :P
[23:13] <GridCube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/800918
[23:14] <GridCube> i don't know how to assing it "wishlist" status
[23:14] <charlie-tca> I will do that