[01:31] <snap-l> Hello again
[01:32] <rick_h_> party!
[01:36] <snap-l> Hello, Ubuntu Hourers.
[01:36] <snap-l> Hours D'ourves?
[02:11] <rick_h_> mpiccinato: http://npmjs.org/
[02:26] <brousch> learning sqlalchemy and flask-sqlalchemy
[02:27] <rick_h_> awesome
[02:27] <rick_h_> we had a SA discussion earlier
[04:11] <rick_h_> crap, we might lose our Detroit in the UH:CHC name :(
[04:11] <rick_h_> knew that would come back to bite me
[04:16] <widox> rick_h_: why's that?
[04:17] <rick_h_> group around wayne state wants to start up in july
[04:17] <rick_h_> wonder if they can have dtw since they're actually dtw
[04:18] <widox> ah
[04:19] <widox> change us to detroit-metro
[04:19] <rick_h_> yea, I hit them back with the idea of making the /detroit.html page a combo
[04:19] <rick_h_> that linked to new north/south/west/east or something
[04:19] <rick_h_> because I've been sharing that /detoit.html link for 2yrs
[04:20] <rick_h_> we'll see how it goes
[04:26] <snap-l> Bah
[04:27] <rick_h_> copied you on my reply snap-l
[04:27] <snap-l> just because they're in Detroit doesn't mean they should have the Detroit name.
[04:27] <snap-l> ;)
[04:27] <rick_h_> well there's also down river
[04:27] <rick_h_> naw, I knew when I did it I was cheating hard core
[04:27] <rick_h_> trying to match up to AA
[04:28] <rick_h_> and want to encourage new ones to sprout up, though honestly, we're the most active of them all
[04:28] <snap-l> Heh
[04:28] <snap-l> Yeah, it happens
[04:31] <_stink_> wait someoue around WSU wants to do something?
[04:31] <_stink_> someone
[04:31] <_stink_> hard to believe
[04:32] <snap-l> Blame ColonelPanic001
[04:32] <snap-l> He's the instigator
[04:32] <rick_h_> _stink_: yea, new CHC by you
[04:32] <_stink_> oh THAT guy?
[04:32] <_stink_> geez
[04:32] <rick_h_> https://gist.github.com/1041857
[04:32] <snap-l> We won't rock the boat.  We'll go with Detroit Midtown. We're hoping to attract Wayne State students and activate the TechTown area.
[04:33] <snap-l> Could even go "Detroit Downtown"
[04:36] <rick_h_> yea, we'll see. anyway, sleepy time
[04:37] <rick_h_> _stink_: still need to see if you can ColonelPanic001 want bmark.us accounts or not
[04:37] <rick_h_> I'll ping you guys tomorrow probably
[04:37] <rick_h_> then shut it down for travel time wheeee
[12:22] <greg-g> g'morning
[12:22] <greg-g> I'm going to start racing rick_h_ to get the first bookmark of the day on bmark.us :)
[12:22] <greg-g> he won today, but, I will win one of these days!
[12:25] <_stink_> morning
[12:53]  * Wolfger swoops in and ninjas the first bmark tomorrow
[12:54] <Wolfger> morning greg-g and _stink_
[12:56] <rick_h_> greg-g: hah! I thought that this morning
[12:56] <rick_h_> checked it, nothing on there for today
[13:04] <jcastro> smoser:
[13:04] <jcastro> hey when is this cloud thing again? Like the time frame?
[13:09] <snap-l> Heh
[13:15] <Wolfger> the cloud is eternal, innit? ;-)
[13:16] <snap-l> The cloud is like the community pool
[13:16] <snap-l> "The cloud will be open from 7am-6pm, M-F"
[13:16] <snap-l> "Down for maintenance from 1pm-2pm"
[13:17] <snap-l> "Adult Swim from 7pm-10pm"
[13:28] <rick_h_> greg-g: actaully, that makes me think of the badges stuff
[13:28] <rick_h_> 'early bird badge, first bookmark of the day
[13:28] <rick_h_> 'wikipedia time vortex, 5 consecutive bookmarks from wikipedia'
[13:29] <greg-g> dude! yes!
[13:29] <rick_h_> 'techcunch ninny bookmarking a techcrunch bookmark for 5 straight days'
[13:29] <rick_h_> lol
[13:29] <snap-l> Oh God.
[13:30] <rick_h_> and we just lost snap-l as a user
[13:30] <snap-l> If you want a collection of shit bookmarks, this is the way to get it. :)
[13:30] <rick_h_> bah, everyone already has a collection of crap :P
[13:30] <greg-g> yeah
[13:30] <rick_h_> this would just make it a badge of honor
[13:30] <greg-g> also, you can design the badges to encourage the behavior you want
[13:30] <rick_h_> 'video wannabe: 10 youtube bookmarks in a week'
[13:31] <Wolfger> The "nothing to see here" badge, bookmarking Slashdot instead of the parent article.
[13:31] <snap-l> Jukebox: 10 bookmarks from Jamendo / Bandcamp. :)
[13:31] <rick_h_> anyway, not that there's time to do that any time soon, but greg made me think of it
[13:31] <rick_h_> funny stuff
[13:36] <brousch> that would add to the social aspects
[13:36] <brousch> then you have to integrate facebook and twitter so people can post their badges
[13:51] <rick_h_> ok, this is crap: http://uploads.mitechie.com/va_weather.png.png
[13:52] <brousch> you weren't planning on being outside were you?
[13:53] <rick_h_> heh
[13:53] <rick_h_> guess not now
[13:53] <Wolfger> Bah.
[13:53] <Wolfger> scattered and isolated
[13:54] <Wolfger> man up and get out there
[14:03] <snap-l> I don't know what this conference call is that I'm on, but it sounded like I leveled up when the chairperson arrived
[14:03] <snap-l> badoop
[14:03] <snap-l> badoop
[14:03] <snap-l> badoop
[14:03] <snap-l> badoop
[14:03] <snap-l> badoop
[14:03] <snap-l> badoop
[14:03] <snap-l> badoop
[14:03] <jjesse> lol
[14:03] <jjesse> i love conference calls :)
[14:03] <snap-l> This one came out of the blue, and has about a million participants
[14:04] <snap-l> I hope everyone has mute, otherwise this will be hell
[14:09] <jjesse> whats that youtube video of the comedian doing the conference call, i'm always reminded of that when i join a call w/ a lot of attendees
[14:09] <snap-l> I have no idea why I'm a part of this meeting
[14:10] <snap-l> Has something to do with a department that I have no dealings with at all
[14:10] <Wolfger> snap-l: You're back at Chrysler???
[14:10] <snap-l> Wolfger: Feels like it
[14:11] <Wolfger> I hate those meetings
[14:11] <snap-l> There's several players that are apparently important
[14:11] <snap-l> and there's feedback loop
[14:12] <Wolfger> We have one guy at this plant who always repeats the last sentence somebody said....
[14:12] <Wolfger> I can't decide if he's "active listening", or just a parrot
[14:12] <snap-l> Both
[14:13] <snap-l> A parrot has to listen very carefully to mimic what they're hearing
[14:14] <snap-l> Yay, it sounds like a re-org.
[14:14] <rick_h_> oops
[14:15] <snap-l> And now the smoke-up-the-ass part of the announcement
[14:15] <snap-l> And now the reassurance
[14:17] <snap-l> I swear, every manager has the same playbook
[14:17] <jjesse> they all go to the same class
[14:17] <snap-l> They could compress these so much better.
[14:18] <snap-l> John: #43. Nick: Oh, definitely #67
[14:18] <jjesse> just do it over twitter so they have only 140 characters to announce things
[14:19] <snap-l> Bahahaha. Someone just piped up that there's 178 people on the call, and not just leadership
[14:19] <jjesse> d'oh
[14:19] <snap-l> ie: don't freak out the workerbees with the direct face of insanity.
[14:20] <snap-l> "Please keep delivering"
[14:20] <snap-l> Sheesh
[14:22] <rick_h_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NQIPVqLMUg
[14:22] <snap-l> I'm getting the feeling that I should be feeling like my cat died
[14:22] <snap-l> but frankly I have NFC what this means.
[14:22] <rick_h_> meh, it was a cat...who cares
[14:23] <snap-l> Jesus, and someone just tried to get his own answer for his own team
[14:26] <snap-l> That word, execution... I think it doesn't mean what you think it means.
[14:29] <snap-l> Bah, now for 20 minutes of parroting from the direct reports.
[14:32] <snap-l> And we're done
[14:44] <Wolfger> 178 people on a conf call? That's insane
[14:47] <Wolfger> Heh. http://diveintomark.org/archives/2011/06/17/come-on-gruber-youre-better-than-this
[14:50] <jcastro> jrwren: the SE podcast this week is /excellent/.
[15:10] <smoser> jcastro, that cloud thing is tomorrow 8am-noon
[15:10] <smoser> i'd pick you up 7:15 return you by 2:00 i guess
[15:11] <jcastro> sounds good probably.
[15:11] <jcastro> let me clear it with my boss.
[15:17] <rick_h_> FF5 feels a bit better than 4 did here it seems
[15:25] <Voodoo_> Anyone have any experience with 'upstart' ? and how it works?
[15:26] <_stink_> i just remember reading about it and being confused.
[15:26] <rick_h_> not really, just created a script to start up uwsgi using it: http://docs.bmark.us/hosting.html#uwsgi-config
[15:26] <Voodoo_> yea.. the documentation is a little much..
[15:26] <rick_h_> but grabbed that from an example someone else had done
[15:27] <Voodoo_> looks like a replacement for anacron, cron, init.. But not sure where it really 'resides'.  like is /sbin/init now 'upstart' ?
[15:29] <Voodoo_> looks like the kernel calls /sbin/init, which reads /etc/event.d/* although I don't know how it knows which runlevel to go into..
[15:30] <rick_h_> http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/amd64/upstart/filelist
[15:30] <rick_h_> that might help a bit
[15:30] <rick_h_> you can see it really it a lot of parts
[15:33] <Voodoo_> oh yea.. good idea..  looks like it replaces almost everything for startup.  so .. it is init. :)
[15:37] <brousch> oh nice. i can copy EPUB files to the nook color and they just work
[15:38] <snap-l> brousch: Most devices work that way. :)
[15:38] <snap-l> It's only Apple that obfuscates this
[15:38] <brousch> i thought i'd have to go through some converter or something
[15:38] <rick_h_> well and no epub on kindle :(
[15:39] <brousch> it apparently reads MS Word and Excel too
[15:39] <brousch> and pdf
[15:39] <brousch> heh, and html
[15:40] <brousch> oh, and it's in color ;)
[15:42] <rick_h_> overrated :P
[15:42] <Voodoo_> hows the battery life on the color nook?
[15:43] <Voodoo_> color's nice for diagrams..
[15:43] <brousch> i get 2 or 3 days with moderate usage
[15:43] <brousch> color's nice for kids' books too
[15:43] <Voodoo_> that's not too bad..
[15:43] <brousch> and for web brwosing
[15:43] <Voodoo_> can you adjust the display brightness to gain more life?
[15:43] <brousch> yeah
[15:43] <Voodoo_> cool.
[15:44] <brousch> i had it turned almost all the way down reading in the dark last night
[15:45] <brousch> i got a cover that includes a sort of stand. perfect for reading while eating
[15:48] <jrwren> jcastro: "SE Podcast" ?
[15:48] <jcastro> http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2011/06/se-podcast-09/
[15:48] <jcastro> jrwren: ^
[16:02] <jrwren> ah, i haven't listened in a long time.
[16:02] <jrwren> thank you jcastro
[16:05] <snap-l> wb nixternal
[16:06] <rick_h_> he's alive?!
[16:09] <jcastro> jrwren: this one is quite good, best one yet IMO
[16:10] <jrwren> I couldn't stand the first few, so I stopped listening. Joel and Jeff just come off as total jerks.
[16:10] <jrwren> even though I highly respect them both, I still think they seemed like jerks.
[16:12] <jcastro> heh
[16:23] <nixternal> thx snap-l
[16:48] <brousch> intresting. youtube lets you give your uploads a CC license now
[16:52] <rick_h_> why does this scare me? http://blog.nodejs.org/2011/06/23/porting-node-to-windows-with-microsoft%E2%80%99s-help/
[16:52] <rick_h_> weren't all the MS devs up in arms already about html on the desktop?
[16:52] <rick_h_> what are they going to think with JS on the server?
[16:53] <rick_h_> running google's v8 underneath? this seems like the twilight zone
[17:09] <krondor> what's that about embrace, extend, something something?  Maybe it's just MS getting a clue, and MS Linux is around the corner.
[17:10] <rick_h_> I mean, I understood the php assistance/support
[17:10] <rick_h_> but this just seems so anti everything
[17:14] <krondor> Windows 9 powered by OSS technology, I mean they need to do something though or they lose the upcoming devs I think
[17:30] <jrwren> there are a lot of huge JS fans at MSFT
[17:30] <jrwren> matt podwysocki being brilliant and all.
[17:31] <jrwren> and bart de smet too
[17:31] <jrwren> remember silverlight version 1 was JS only.
[17:48] <rick_h_> heh fun: http://schmichael.com/files/schmongodb/Scaling%20with%20MongoDB%20(with%20notes).pdf
[17:48] <rick_h_> snap-l: there's your diagram of needing 6 servers for mongo ^^
[17:49] <snap-l> :(
[17:51] <snap-l> So essentially this is how to scale MongoDB: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UDs-x0_rwk
[17:52] <snap-l> Just keep throwing machines at it
[17:52] <_stink_> wow
[17:53] <rick_h_> we need to get one of those shredders
[17:53] <rick_h_> next CHC is going to be a blast!
[17:55] <snap-l> Heh
[17:57] <snap-l> rick_h_: I love the last few slides
[17:57] <rick_h_> :)
[17:57] <snap-l> "fuck it, we moved to PostgreSQL"
[17:57] <rick_h_> "we got sloppy, crap works now"
[17:57] <rick_h_> I know everyone is all NoSQL! and I want to use couch and such for a few things
[17:58] <rick_h_> but man, it's not a silver bullet
[18:02] <snap-l> You know the old addage: Fast, Cheap, Good: Pick Two
[18:03] <snap-l> MongoDB is the following: Fast, Scalable, Reliable: Pick Fast, because we do that really well.
[18:04] <brousch> wow, where's the mongo hate coming from?
[18:05] <snap-l> brousch: Experience
[18:06] <brousch> mongo ate your child?
[18:07] <snap-l> No, I've just seen a lot of pain from folks using MongoDB
[18:08] <snap-l> I don't think NoSQL is bad, but I do think CouchDB is more sane about it than MongoDB
[18:08] <brousch> but allura is mongo!
[18:09] <_stink_> i still have no clue what NoSQL is.  not that i've tried to learn.
[18:10] <snap-l> _stink_: Think of NoSQL as a way to store data without having to define the tables for it beforehand
[18:10] <brousch> it is easy to learn. if you know sql, do the opposite!
[18:10] <snap-l> like a business card
[18:10] <snap-l> some business cards have fax numbers on them, some don't
[18:10] <snap-l> some have 5 mobile numbers
[18:10] <_stink_> ah, ok
[18:11] <_stink_> that is kind of illuminating.
[18:11] <_stink_> how is it different from like a memstore of a data structure?
[18:11] <_stink_> i guess you can search on it better.
[18:11] <brousch> structure? we don't need no stinking structure!
[18:11] <_stink_> or search on it at all.
[18:11] <rick_h_> _stink_: have to come to CHC some time
[18:12] <_stink_> yes, true, whether or not to learn about NoSQL :)
[18:12] <rick_h_> hah
[18:18] <jrwren> nosql just means "its not sql"
[18:19] <jrwren> so LDAP is NOSQL.
[18:19] <jrwren> sorry, but its true.
[18:19] <snap-l> jrwren: LDAP is NOFUN either
[18:19] <brousch> zodb was nosql before nosql was cool
[18:20] <binbrain> ZODB, also ACID compliant
[18:34] <jrwren> i thought zodb was an ORM.
[18:35] <jrwren> and actually backed by sql.
[18:46] <binbrain> jrwren: no
[18:46] <binbrain> its a persistent object hash
[18:48] <binbrain> objects are stored in dicts, and have attributes adapted to them that allow them to contain dicts of other objects
[18:50] <binbrain> you can control the dicts by adapting them to categories, which is essentially putting an interface around that your object collection must implement, its very OOP in some respects
[18:51] <rick_h_> yea, zodb has a fan group for sure
[18:51] <rick_h_> shoot, the old berkleydb stuff was nosql
[18:51] <binbrain> scales transparently, who wouldn't be a fan
[18:53] <binbrain> of course, shortcomings, must have the class representation of the original persisted obj to reload it
[18:53] <binbrain> which can make life hell
[18:55] <binbrain> migrations have to be thought out, because you need to load the objs, convert, and then repersist
[18:56] <binbrain> unlike other nosql dbs, zodb is of course tightly coupled to Python, so shortcoming #2, but that's never been a problem for me :)
[18:57] <rick_h_> hah
[18:58] <jrwren> yup, berkleydb, ndb for sure.
[20:01] <brousch> wow, 8" archos honeycomb tablet, optional 250GB hard drive $279 http://www.droid-life.com/2011/06/23/archos-introduces-two-new-inexpensive-honeycomb-tablets-with-omap4-processors-clocked-at-1-5ghz/
[20:14] <krondor> a coworker of mine has an older archos tablet, it was cheap too but had some flaws these sound really nice
[20:18] <jrwren> wow, that is awesome.
[20:22] <snap-l> Well, having a great day
[20:22] <snap-l> My boss is moving on
[20:22] <snap-l> and everyone is blowing smoke that nothing will change for me.
[20:22] <krondor> 3 out of 4 cluster nodes fail and the SAN guys are hanging out near the rack by chance claiming no problem... hmm curiosity abounds
[20:23] <snap-l> *sigh*
[20:29] <jrwren> hey, I just got told that I suck and that I'm doing a shitty job managing this project.
[20:29] <jrwren> which is true.
[20:29] <jrwren> but it still ain't fun to hear.
[20:29] <snap-l> Why do they have a developer managing a project?
[20:30] <jrwren> excellent question!
[20:30] <snap-l> I really hate it when that happens
[20:30] <jrwren> I think what they want is what most people would call a coding "Program Manager"
[20:30] <jrwren> but I have shitty PM skills
[20:30] <snap-l> Most good developers do
[20:31] <jrwren> its also awesome that the person calling me out has only been involved for 13 days.  9 work days. so only 1 iteration of a scrum style dev process
[20:32] <snap-l> Seriously? That's crap
[20:36] <krondor> that always happens, I don't know how many PMs I've met that have said "I used to be a Unix Admin, Programmer, or similar" usually with a I should never have taken this job following...
[20:36] <snap-l> Happened to me at Chrysler.
[20:37] <snap-l> Usually is a "we don't know what to do with you. You know too much about the system, but we're technically not able to staff this project so you can work on it directly"
[20:44] <krondor> so the logs have it, 3 of 4 nodes lost their disk with the sbd partition then start voting for a master, the epoc numbers don't match and poison pills are issued.  SAN team comes clean on maintenance to the fabric they're on
[20:46] <krondor> missing an H in epoch is probably as good a reason as any to call it a short day and do some web browsing
[21:11] <smoser> greg-g, why must you make work for me
[21:11] <smoser> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/etckeeper/+bug/800656
[21:12] <smoser> can you clarify a bit for me?
[21:49] <greg-g> smoser: sure, uh, I was prompted by update manager to update, I said update, it gave an error (I forget what the gui one was). I checked the terminal view in update manager and it showed etckeeper complaining about a lock on /etc/
[21:50] <smoser> what could have caused a lock ?
[21:53] <greg-g> smoser: you know, I'm not really sure, I can only speculate that I ran an update from the cli and it didn't finish
[21:53] <greg-g> lemme find my apt logs
[21:58] <greg-g> I can't find anything that looks like the cause :/
[22:53] <snap-l> openmetalcast Club Metal Episode #4 catapults you closer to the singularity: http://ur1.ca/4idfc
[22:59] <snap-l> http://blog.instapaper.com/post/6830514157 <- Holy shit