[00:00] oh yea that could be interesting [00:00] the sketching part is just the concept [00:00] the rest their coloring team does it [00:00] and i just give pointers [00:03] well if you have something specific you want to work on, we're always open to contributions :) [00:04] I just can't think of the applications off the top of my head :P [00:18] ah ok [00:18] :D [00:18] i dunno if there's a theme or you need artwork for a concept im all yours [00:19] etneg, jump in,, best way to do it [00:37] coz_: yeah but with what in mind? [00:37] :D [00:37] etneg, well not sure,, talking with danrabbit is I guess the best starting point,,, not sure who on the team there does digital from sketches [00:38] ah ok [00:38] yeah hes not sure either [00:38] etneg, with enough information in the sketch it shouldnt be too difficult [00:38] yeah but without a theme its kinda pointless just sketching away [00:38] well..depending on if it is an image or th eme [00:39] etneg, ah never pointless,, sketch daily,, makes for good technique :) [00:39] i sketch daily :D [00:39] excellent :) [00:39] just doing this on the side to take a break from the real sketching [00:39] :D [00:40] etneg, I understand that,, I stopped doing real artwork a while ago,,, I live in the US ,, not much going on here in my opinion [00:40] oh sure there is [00:40] i recently sold a piece for 1200 [00:40] well i make a living outta doing art mostly [00:40] etneg, oh? where are you located? [00:40] US too, in ny [00:40] ah [00:40] etneg, mmm,, what type of work do you do? [00:41] pencil sketches [00:41] etneg, ah grphite is excellent medium :) [00:41] ye [00:41] :D [00:41] etneg, I used to like conte crayon a lot and pencil [00:41] i use mostly graphite [00:42] etneg, here is some of my old sketches /www.flickr.com/photos/coz_ [00:42] not too bad, pretty good anatomy [00:43] http://i51.tinypic.com/15dkk78.jpg the most recent work i sold [00:43] etneg, I also love india ink [00:43] ye i do some pen an ink work but moslty doodle stuff [00:43] etneg, almost trompe l'oeil [00:43] oh i dunno [00:43] reddit said it was photorealistic enough .. i said ok [00:44] etneg, that is generally translated as "fool the eye" [00:44] i know [00:44] buti dont do tromp l'oeils [00:44] i just do what i see [00:44] etneg, understood [00:44] etneg, time consuming ...yes? [00:44] oh this piece? [00:45] 2 weeks if i did everyday [00:45] but overall took a month [00:45] etneg, yep sounds about right [00:45] etneg, india ink tends to lead me into non representational work [00:46] im not a big fan of pen n ink besides doing sort of abstrct stuff [00:46] i used to like it to do draw architecture [00:46] but since i dont find it photorealistic enough to render i stopped [00:47] etneg, understood,, on the second page of that post I did some ink stuff but always non representational [00:47] btw you said its like trompe l oeil [00:47] or almost [00:47] i dont have any real element placed there or anything [00:47] the whole thing is a sketch [00:47] ye i saw [00:48] etneg, well its more how the viewer sees the work,,, money regardless drawn well enough to appear real [00:48] I would call that almost trompe l"oile [00:48] oeil [00:48] ah ok [00:49] http://i52.tinypic.com/167m69w.jpg [00:49] old work like a yr ago [00:49] etneg, ok that is a nice sketch not close to trompe l'oeil :) [00:50] na [00:50] etneg, what graphite densities are you using [00:50] wasnt intended to [00:50] that sketch i aimed for only transparency in the petals [00:50] once i achieved that i wrapped it up quick [00:51] ah ok [00:51] the big petal [00:51] is not great [00:51] that was a quick hack [00:51] :P [00:51] etneg, are you using different densities? 2b 9 b etc [00:51] ye 8b 7b 6b [00:51] ah ok [00:51] 4b [00:51] 2f [00:51] 4h [00:52] 4h oo nice and hard :) [00:52] tortillons [00:52] tissue [00:52] camois [00:52] chamois [00:52] i hate the hard pencils [00:52] but its good for light shading [00:52] im moving to mechanical these days to get more detail [00:52] etneg, they are nice for very light gradations [00:53] the money sketch was all using wooden pencil [00:53] etneg, see I moved to graphite sticks for less detail :) [00:53] had it been in mechanical it would have been better [00:53] na i want details:D [00:53] http://i53.tinypic.com/2dl6mpu.jpg [00:53] thats the recent pen n ink work [00:53] nice [00:53] doodles [00:54] also tedious work,, [00:54] compared to the pencil? [00:54] etneg, I think I prefer the splat and resolve the splat with washes :) [00:54] not a lot [00:54] oh abstract [00:54] etneg, well pen an ink always struck me as tedious to work with [00:54] heh i stay away from abstrac unless its digital [00:55] the bones you did are something i like [00:55] etneg, well I use the "splat" method to keep me on my toes for composition [00:55] good shading [00:55] good outlining [00:55] etneg, that was done with solid grahpite pencils no wood but just graphite [00:56] used th edges to draw the lines? [00:56] i have some solid graphite here but i hate the messyness [00:56] like charcoal, [00:56] etneg, I try to keep composition of line in mind when working with graphite [00:56] etneg, I detest ,, hate,, spit on charcoal lol [00:57] charcoail is great for creating a tone [00:57] if you have the patience [00:57] etneg, these solid grphite pencils have a laquer outside [00:57] and dont mind messyness [00:59] etneg, they look similar to this http://www.orangeart.com/product.asp?p=30550&pt=121 [00:59] etneg, it has a very thin laquar coating on the outside [00:59] woodless pencil I guess its called [00:59] yes i have those [00:59] its got a shine outside [00:59] those tend to snap [00:59] right in the middle [00:59] its not very strong [01:00] etneg, yes the do ,, nice even grahpite,, not grains [01:00] they do rather [01:00] i like those just for shading bgs [01:01] where its really dark and you dont wanna go inch by inch [01:01] thats when i use those [01:01] i coat a layer and then go over it like 10 times before its nice and dark [01:01] etneg, yeah , you just have to careful not to 'rape' the paper :) [01:01] usually you dont:P [01:01] unless people erase a lot [01:01] or [01:02] by pressing it down toooooooooo hard [01:02] exactly :") [01:02] you'll have reflections of the lead [01:02] and a bent paper [01:02] etneg, that is considered amateurish [01:02] relfections of the lead are common though [01:02] if you do a bg in just 9b [01:02] you're gonna see it [01:02] they can be for sure,, good cotton paper helps to reduce that [01:03] yeah but cotton removes a lot too [01:03] if i used cotton or tissue over the darker coins [01:03] what do you mean [01:03] it wouldnt look nice [01:03] the darker coins on the right are done purely using 9b [01:03] and 4b mechanical for the inside details [01:03] etneg, well a real good qulaity water colour paper . hot pressed should work or even a nice cold pressed paper [01:03] depending on if you want textured paper [01:04] oh textured paper doesnt work well with graphite [01:04] specially not where you want details thugh [01:04] its great if you want to quick sketches like the anatomyu you did [01:04] if there's a pore i want to skeetch, a textured paper wont let me do it [01:05] i usually use bristol boards [01:05] bristol illustration boards [01:05] 500 series [01:05] strathmore [01:05] etneg, next time try a hot pressed all cottom water colour paper [01:05] etneg, you may be like it [01:05] water color paper has textures [01:05] not hot pressed [01:06] depending on the manufacturer [01:06] will check it out [01:06] im happy with bristol boards now though [01:06] yep [01:06] smooth enough [01:06] not sure of the cottom percentage on bristol though [01:06] the lead doesnt spread [01:06] im avoiding using cotton or tissues these days [01:07] trying to shade just by using the pencil [01:07] and for highlights trying to shade around it by keeping the white of the paper and not use a kneaded erase [01:07] eraser [01:07] painstaking [01:07] but well [01:07] etneg, yep thats the best way,, keeps the highlights clean [01:07] yes but its painstaking [01:08] etneg, ah yes ,, welcome to art :) [01:08] also not a lot of them do that [01:08] :D [01:08] unless they wanna spend 100 hrs on a sketch [01:08] etneg, you can use a maksing fluid [01:08] etneg, masking fluid rather [01:08] whats that for [01:09] etneg, used to be exclusively use in water color to prevent color from bleeding onto highligh areas [01:09] etneg, but it works with any medium [01:09] etneg, you can even use a very fine brush to brush on a fine line for highlight [01:10] etneg, then just do all the pencil work and rub off the mask with your fingers or something [01:10] no way thats not gonna work [01:10] :D [01:10] then gently shade into the higlight to elimiate a hard line you might not want [01:10] nope wont work [01:10] if there's way too many details [01:10] oh yeah it will honest [01:11] its a pain in the ass but it works :) [01:11] applying masking fluid [01:11] and then skecthign over it? [01:11] and then rubbing off the masking fluid? [01:11] etneg, over it ,, up to it ,, anything [01:11] right [01:11] etneg, yep then rub it off [01:11] but the porblem is [01:11] when you shade [01:11] its not a big white spot [01:11] and then dark spots around it [01:12] it blends [01:12] itgoes from dark - gray to lighter greys and then white [01:12] etneg, it can be blended easily,, just draw up to the mask [01:12] remove the mask then complete the gradation [01:12] i'll give it a try and see [01:12] but thats cheating actually [01:13] i know a guy who used masking tape for highlights [01:13] etneg, I have always seen it that was [01:13] etneg, a well planned composition doesnt really need masking [01:13] i'll give it a try for kicks, but im not going to do it for a real sketchD: [01:14] etneg: I started off with a pen/paper too: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/AlphaBackgrounds?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=Miffan4test.jpg [01:14] i remember doing a transparent hand for a client [01:14] witha black background [01:14] i could ive used a black paper and then used chalk or charcoal or glass pen [01:14] but i decided to do it on whie, it wsa a bitch [01:14] :D [01:14] Islington, nice [01:14] basically you want to move from pen/paper sketch to svg [01:15] ^^^^ [01:15] Islington: checking [01:15] svgs vector are super useful [01:16] nice [01:16] thing is if i just do it in pencil/ or pen, someone else will do the coloring? [01:16] digital coloring [01:17] not unless you can convince them it will be worth it [01:17] ye does ubuntu have a coloring team? [01:17] like we could draw up concepts [01:17] vote [01:17] and then people color it [01:17] afaik we dont, its an interesting idea [01:18] thats what they do for fedora [01:18] what sorts of things would they work on? [01:18] the concepts are put up [01:18] and then the artists work with the coloring team [01:18] etneg, that's because fedora is devoid of talent [01:18] expand on 'concepts' though [01:18] i for one dont do digital work so kinda works out for me as well [01:18] coz_: not reall [01:18] lol coz_ going for a low kick eh [01:18] coz_: im doig their themes now:P [01:18] :) [01:19] Islington: well lets say [01:19] etneg, not meant as personal critisism,, but developers in general are poor at graphics [01:19] coz_: yeah but there are people from deviantart coming in to do the coloring as well [01:19] etneg, ah ok [01:19] etneg: finish that though [01:19] t [01:19] Islington: well lets say natty [01:20] etneg, if you do decide to try digital I would use inkscape [01:20] natty has a theme for wallpapers [01:20] coz_: i never wil, i dont do digital:P [01:20] ok [01:20] coz_: i never wil, i dont do digital:Pso [01:20] so [01:20] natty has a theme for wallpapers [01:20] it does? [01:20] or say banners or maybe icons [01:21] if its based on a theme like say " ANTIQUE" [01:21] oh I see 'let's say" [01:21] ye [01:21] then we draw concepts based on antique [01:21] and place a deadline/ vote [01:21] then keep a time allotment for coloring [01:21] and then for polishing it up [01:21] roughly a month for all of it [01:22] defaults one one side, supplementary on the other side where anyone and all can contribute [01:22] on one* [01:22] well coloring shouldnt be too difficult using the official ubuntu palette [01:22] supplementary could be photographs people worked on, anything [01:23] i did try digital but without a tablet its painful [01:23] I floated the idea of themed community releases, it went nowhere [01:23] oh [01:23] so what is it now though? [01:23] just random stuff with ubuntu logos? [01:24] thaats what i mostly saw [01:24] maybe the timing was wrong, idk I still think its a worthwhile idea [01:24] etneg, well everything,, I believe , is taken care of by canonical design team [01:24] currently its just hanging around until some design decision is made elsewhere and handed down [01:24] coz_: oh ok [01:25] etneg, we no longer have much input [01:25] well if canonical and ubuntu has a design concept [01:25] they wish [01:25] i can draw it out or we could [01:25] and let them vote [01:25] ') [01:25] etneg: join the ayatanna list I think [01:25] ayatana [01:25] see this works out because if someone does allllllllllllll the coloring and everything and finally someone says NO [01:25] ^ [01:25] its a waste of time [01:26] waste of time for the guy coloring it [01:26] etneg, well,, one of the issues I see with the "official" design team is lack of colaboration,, most of the people there are from the UK no chinese,, italian,, spanish,, etc to have different ideas floating aroung for a "real" collaboration [01:26] ah ok [01:27] etneg, one sided in other words [01:27] ye a medium is necessary [01:27] to share [01:27] etneg, I dont think one american is on that team at all [01:27] let alone from other cultures [01:28] well if they laid out concept ideas they wanted [01:28] i could draw them out [01:28] yep [01:28] it doesnt have to be on a theme basis [01:28] etneg, try ayatana mailing list [01:29] ok [01:29] so the sketch Islington did [01:29] you're going to colorise it? [01:29] etneg, not me [01:29] no i mean Islington [01:29] ah [01:29] seems already colored [01:30] thats for a wallpaper? [01:30] yeh but thats stll as a sketch [01:30] yes I believe so [01:30] ah cool [01:30] etneg, it is 'sketch" like but in my eyes a finished piece [01:30] oh [01:30] etneg, for a wallpaper [01:31] it was a trial wall for the alpha of jaunty etneg [01:31] etneg, one thing for wallpapers is not too busy,, dont distract the eye from work realted things [01:31] Islington: thats what i was aiming for [01:31] doing alpha stuff [01:31] it got remixed into a dvd cover thought [01:32] coz_: yeah soft tones [01:32] so are they accepting sketches or concepts for alpha wallpapers? [01:32] nope idea was stillborn [01:33] etneg, I havent heard anything [01:33] etneg, they are going to keep it "corporate" based I think [01:33] ah [01:34] who does ubuntu's default stuff? [01:34] canonical's design team? [01:34] etneg, yep [01:34] etneg, the canonical design team [01:34] and arent they here? [01:34] in this channel [01:34] etneg, yeah they are here at times [01:35] etneg, closer to the weekend is less likely though ,, certainly on the weekends [01:35] i mean definitly not the weekends [01:35] well anyhow i can sketch so if ubuntu needs something, allyours [01:35] :D [01:36] there you go :) [01:38] ok I have to break here,, be back later [01:39] so Islington youre in the design eteam? [01:39] or just doing it on the side? [01:39] not official tema [01:39] was on the artwork team [01:40] ah ok [01:42] so would i be of any use to ubuntu's art team yet [01:43] depnds on what you want to do [01:43] if its just sketchwork, then it will be harder to find a fit [01:44] but if you can start working on digitalizing it will prove more useful [01:44] ye just sketch for now [01:44] hmm [01:44] or i could work side by side with someone who does graphics [01:44] like yourself or something [01:45] i draw, you digitize:D [01:45] ah but currently I am not on any ubuntu projects [01:45] ah k [01:46] and most of the work I am doing currently is pure vector work. [01:46] hmm an expereince with UI ideas? [01:46] ah k [01:46] 8any [01:46] **any [01:47] i can sketch anything [01:47] so if UI needs somthing along those lines to help get started, ok [01:48] well for example if you have a good idea for UI can you sketch it out and describe how it will work? [01:48] got an example? [01:49] hmm cant think of any lol [01:50] Try to sketch out ideas/designs for the elementary swag [01:50] ye but whats that thought [01:50] dan didnt say much [01:50] said he wasnt sure [01:50] the site doesnt tell much either [01:50] convince him, sketch out a tshirt idea or a button idea [01:51] oh merchandise [01:51] ^ [01:52] na [01:52] people would do those better just using photoshop for that [01:52] lot easier [01:52] I say tshirt or button because they have restrictions on the number of colors they can have, ... [01:52] a pencil sketch wouldnt say much about a product unless i madeit look photorealistic enough [01:54] ye considering there's 0- no oeffort in making that when theres even restrictions for the color, that much easier for people to just pohotoshpp stuff [01:56] alright if there's anything im here [01:56] bbl:D [01:57] like I said I would work on transitioning from pure pencil work to vector work [01:57]