=== _Hyper__ is now known as _Hyper_ [19:02] hey charlie-tca [19:02] do you have a minute? [19:02] sure [19:02] kewl [19:02] new trackball, might be a mess for a day or two, though [19:02] so, i really spent a lot of time on the scrollbars this week [19:02] so i wanted to give you a heads up on the outcome [19:03] what did we get? Should I grab the git? [19:03] not yet, maybe in a minute :) [19:03] i'll tell you first [19:03] okay [19:03] i realized that firefox has a problem with scrollbars without arrows [19:03] that simply breaks all horizontal scrolling [19:03] libreoffice also doesn't like scrollbars without arrows [19:04] but that's less of a concern to me than firefox [19:04] so now i created a scrollbar layout with a tiny tiny arrow [19:04] heh [19:04] it's basically a light-grey dot [19:04] i think it even looks kinda nice [19:04] I was really liking the arrow-less scrollbar [19:05] But, if we must... [19:05] yeah, i think then you might like this too [19:05] it's rather subtle [19:05] on bad screens people might not even see the dot [19:05] but it's usable [19:05] meaning you can click it [19:05] which is also kinda nice [19:05] can't click what you can't see [19:05] unless you know where it is ;) [19:06] true, or it is a mistake and you don't know why something scrolled [19:06] well, if you click the trough, you scroll anyway [19:06] but if you click where the arrows should be, it scrolls less [19:06] screener: http://imagebin.org/159825 [19:07] Hm, I wonder if we will get bug reports for them being too hard to see? [19:08] It's fine for me, I know what it is, but I don't want users screaming at us for them, either. [19:08] Want to try it? [19:09] I am willing to see what happens [19:11] Have you pushed anything to oneiric yet? [19:11] k, sure, i'll quickly push the most recent version [19:11] one sec [19:12] btw, i made the scrollbar 1px wider so it's easier to grab (and in fact somehow murrine renders it nicer) [19:13] It would get more eyes looking at it, and more feedbck. [19:13] Great! I like that idea [19:13] I was thinking about that this morning. It seemed a bit narrow to me at times. [19:14] ok, just pushed it [19:15] to git or to bzr? [19:15] hm, about user-reports and the arrows, i guess it would be an option to show some early screenshots on planet.ubuntu.org and see whether people start shouting early [19:15] to git [19:15] Yeah, that would be a good thing to get out in front, wouldn't it? [19:15] I am going grab it [19:15] good [19:16] actually in firefox the arrows are a bit more visible than in other apps [19:16] but tbh honest firefox's xul scrollbars really don't work very well (no offense micahg ;) ) [19:16] That's because firefox insists on having them, right? [19:17] yep [19:17] btw, i tested midori's bookmarks migration [19:17] it's really super-easy and works well [19:17] blame micahg, then. We haven't blamed him for much yet ;) [19:17] Yeah, neat, huh? [19:17] yep, i think that was one of the big blockers for midori in xubuntu, no? [19:17] The only issue I saw with midori was opening multiple tabs at once. [19:18] how do you mean? [19:18] yes, not being able to transfer bookmarks is a big deal [19:18] I couldn't get it to let me open all 40+ tabs at one time [19:18] oh [19:19] 40+ tabs at once sounds more like a stresstest than an every-day usebase :) [19:19] It wants me to open each one separately, but it might be something I did, too [19:19] how did you open them? [19:19] i'd like to try aswell [19:19] I open those everyday, for bug triage [19:19] firefox, it is just a right click on the folder in bookmarks, open all in tabs [19:20] in midori, I couldn't find that option [19:20] ah [19:20] interesting [19:20] i'll have a look [19:20] and, it is not fun, doing that many individually, daily [19:20] but, if that is all there is, shrugs [19:20] actually it works for me [19:21] really? [19:21] Then it is me... I like midori, too [19:21] i just right-clicked a folder in bookmarks and there is an option "open all in tabs" [19:21] and it works [19:21] at least for the three websites i had in that testfolder [19:21] maybe you have an older version of midori? [19:21] I will go try it again, then. Maybe it was old [19:22] * ochosi has 0.3.2 [19:23] midori doesn't have the scrollbar issues that firefox has ;) [19:23] an in general it's a very pretty app since it's all gtk [19:23] importing my bookmarks, let's see what happens. It looks like I tried it back in May [19:24] I still would like to see us using it. I even suggested both midori and firefox, but I can't get an answer I like on that. [19:24] you suggested it to whom? [19:26] micahg and the meetings [19:26] My midori is 0.3.6, and I can't find the bookmarks in it [19:27] so when you're showing the sidepanel and switch to bookmarks, there is nothing? [19:27] what sidepanel? [19:27] click the menu-button (the gear) and then show sidepanel [19:28] that's similar to ff's sidepanel [19:28] found it [19:28] without that, there are no bookmarks to access [19:28] Okay, we would need that on by default, I think [19:29] It is opening my tabs now [19:29] micahg even agreed to midori, if we decided to use it this cycle [19:30] That could be a space saver, couldn't it? [19:30] guess so [19:31] but i don't have the numbers anywhere near me :) [19:31] anyhow, if you just start typing in the address bar your bookmarks will also show up [19:31] like firefox's awesome bar [19:31] Yeah, I never have learned how to use that damn thing in firefox [19:31] so it's not completely hidden, rather trying to save screen estate [19:31] lubuntu uses chromium [19:32] hey GridCube [19:32] hey :) [19:32] so i added tiny almost invisible arrows to the scrollbars, hope you're happy now ;) http://imagebin.org/159825 [19:33] but they're functionalö [19:33] :D nice [19:33] feel free to grab the latest version from git and try them live [19:34] (and don't switch back to albatross immediately!) [19:34] GridCube: yes, but we don't [19:34] ok ochosi will do when i'm on my pc [19:35] yes i know charlie-tca, i meant that if we want a small (functional) browser, chromium is a choice, not my choice, but a choice [19:36] ochosi: if we have a chance for midori, I will start using it again [19:36] charlie-tca: yeah, i'd say let's start testing it a bit more [19:36] I can do that [19:36] GridCube: We want to test midori, too [19:36] there are enough arguments to at least discuss it again imo [19:36] chromium been knocked out everytime, for a lot of different issues. [19:37] :D [19:37] The only reason we did not switch to midori for 11.04 was the bookmarks could not be imported. [19:37] ok, good because i dont like chromium [19:38] but then again, in the last weeks it has been the only browser unafected by the facebook/hotmail attacks to firefox [19:39] * ochosi is wondering why his midori version is so old compared to charlie-tca's... [19:40] oneiric? [19:40] yeah, guess so, i'm still on natty [19:40] or am I pulling from the ppa again? [19:40] but i decided to add the midori ppa now [19:40] !info midori [19:40] midori (source: midori): fast, lightweight graphical web browser. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.3.2-0.1ubuntu1 (natty), package size 1014 kB, installed size 3556 kB [19:40] !info midori oneiric [19:40] midori (source: midori): fast, lightweight graphical web browser. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.3.6-1ubuntu1 (oneiric), package size 1073 kB, installed size 3704 kB [19:40] there it is [19:40] mhm [19:41] !info firefox oneiric [19:41] firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 5.0+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu1 (oneiric), package size 16484 kB, installed size 35832 kB [19:41] ~30mb size difference [19:41] D: thats a huge difference [19:41] in just that package [19:41] ochosi: both natty and oneiric have Firefox 5 [19:41] micahg: yep, i know [19:41] GridCube: chromium in Lubuntu is counterintuitive as it's larger than firefox and uses more memory [19:41] That is a lot of disk space, isn't it? [19:42] charlie-tca: what's the issue with let's see if we have space? :) [19:42] well, it's not killing us i guess [19:42] it's "just another argument" [19:42] WE are way oversized, and have to keep gtk2 and gtk3, right? [19:42] !info chromium-browser [19:42] chromium-browser (source: chromium-browser): Chromium browser. In component universe, is optional. Version 12.0.742.91~r87961-0ubuntu0.11.04.1 (natty), package size 16069 kB, installed size 55964 kB (Only available for i386 amd64 all) [19:42] from an artwork point of view i'm all for midori, because it's all gtk :) [19:42] charlie-tca: yeah, I'll fix that after alpha 2, the platform rally is next week and idk if I'll have time before that [19:43] We still have hopes for midori, micahg [19:43] charlie-tca: my guess is I can get both on the CD, but let's see what happens [19:43] wow, midori's new speed dial is pretty fancy [19:43] midori won't take up much space it's just ATM we have none :) [19:44] win/win [19:45] I got to keep hoping, right ;) [19:45] charlie-tca: have you tried "menu" > "customize toolbar" and then add the bookmarks there? [19:45] question. what if, just what if, once one downloads/installs xubuntu a "choose your browser" app appears and lets you choose what browser to install? like some windows installations have (OEM) that let you choose a browser on startup [19:45] charlie-tca: I think we can make it happen [19:45] huh? [19:45] charlie-tca: it gives you a nice star that shows all your bookmarks as a menu [19:45] I can add it to a menu I don' t even have? [19:45] well, kubuntu has a firefox installer, but it makes sense for them as they don't want a GTK2 stack on their install [19:45] GridCube: i think that edubuntu has something like that [19:46] Where did you get this "customize" ? [19:46] GridCube: we just throw them both into the menu and let the user choose [19:46] It makes midori more visible [19:47] charlie-tca: http://imagebin.org/159832 [19:47] charlie-tca: what you'll get is the star next to the pressed menu-button [19:47] ochosi: I don't have that option [19:48] i think that's a lot less obtrusive than showing the whole sidebar by default [19:48] rly? [19:48] then my midori is newer than yours ;) [19:48] https://launchpad.net/~midori/+archive/ppa [19:48] and [19:48] https://launchpad.net/~webkit-team/+archive/ppa [19:49] anyhow, will go for drinks with a few friends now [19:49] feel free to ping me when you have greybird-feedback [19:50] i'll read it in the backlog tomorrow [19:50] here - http://imagebin.org/159834 [19:51] kubuntu offers both konqueror or something and firefox on the finished install [19:51] charlie-tca: kubuntu has rekonq by default with an installer for Firefox [19:51] edubuntu's choice happens in the ubiquity dialog iirc [19:51] ochosi: that PPA has the same version as oneiric [19:51] maybe we should look into that if there's enough space [19:52] micahg: hm, the screenshots kinda tell a different story [19:52] no, firefox is installed in oneiric, at least [19:52] Maybe I got my options wrong in preferences, ochosi [19:53] ochosi: maybe they have customizations or something, I just took what Debian had [19:53] sry, i think i have the "toolbar customizer" extension installed [19:53] s/installed/activated [19:54] it should be a part of midori iirc [19:54] with that you can add the button [19:54] (i guess) [19:54] :) [19:54] found it [19:55] toolbar editor is an extension in midori [19:55] I haven't played with the extensions [19:56] but I will. I will start using it in place of firefox [19:56] * ochosi hasn't really either [19:56] i've only tried the adblock [19:56] and that seems to work ok [19:56] I block ads with dnsmasq [19:56] nice [19:57] k, now i really g2g [19:57] Since it is on my server, any machine I connect gets the ads blocked automatically [19:57] see you around everyone! [19:57] Have a good weekend [19:57] thx you too [20:34] hm, You can't export bookmarks in html from firefox? [20:35] yes [20:36] wait, yes, you can [20:37] how? [20:47] i dont have it in english, but is >bookmarks >manage bookmarks >import and save >save as html [20:49] firefox 5.0; no manage bookmarks [20:50] Maybe it just isn't my day for browsers :( [20:50] O_o [20:50] let me do some research [20:51] I haven't found a single option yet today when told it was there, midori and firefox [20:52] mmm [20:52] what if you type >about:bookmarks [20:56] losing battle. [20:57] The URL is not recognized [20:57] :P take the long road [20:57] >help >information to solve problems >open containing folder >manually copy bookmarks.html [21:00] ahem, there is none [21:00] :( [21:00] they are now json files [21:00] I can't win today [21:00] Even the backup files appear to be .json [21:01] now... :( [21:01] :/ [21:01] can i see your bookmarks menu display? [21:01] so, is firefox getting like IE, lock the users in and forget about letting them do anything with any other browser? [21:02] crtl+shift+b? [21:04] This one? http://imagebin.org/159842 [21:05] That shortcut doesn't work, either [21:06] oh [21:07] is "show all bookmarks" ctrl-shift-o [21:07] that should open a window and the last menu should be "export & backup" or something like that [21:09] That's the one I lost. Thanks for being so persistent [21:09] :D [21:11] so its there, correct? [21:12] its fun because even in spañish the names change if you use the "spain" or the "argentina" localization [21:15] yeah, it is there [22:46] ochosi: I can't find Bug #636532 upstream (it was reported for other plugins though). Am I blind tonight, or was it forgotten? :P [22:46] Launchpad bug 636532 in xfce4-timer-plugin (Ubuntu) "xfce4-timer-plugin uses "gtk-paste" as app-icon" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/636532 [22:48] also, I got a mail from LP that gridcube wants to join ~xubuntu-art [22:48] grmpf [22:49] mohkay, it seems actually neither knome nor you are in this team =] [22:49] bwarf, that's a mess