[19:02] <ochosi> hey charlie-tca 
[19:02] <ochosi> do you have a minute?
[19:02] <charlie-tca> sure
[19:02] <ochosi> kewl
[19:02] <charlie-tca> new trackball, might be a mess for a day or two, though
[19:02] <ochosi> so, i really spent a lot of time on the scrollbars this week
[19:02] <ochosi> so i wanted to give you a heads up on the outcome
[19:03] <charlie-tca> what did we get? Should I grab the git?
[19:03] <ochosi> not yet, maybe in a minute :)
[19:03] <ochosi> i'll tell you first
[19:03] <charlie-tca> okay
[19:03] <ochosi> i realized that firefox has a problem with scrollbars without arrows
[19:03] <ochosi> that simply breaks all horizontal scrolling
[19:03] <ochosi> libreoffice also doesn't like scrollbars without arrows
[19:04] <ochosi> but that's less of a concern to me than firefox
[19:04] <ochosi> so now i created a scrollbar layout with a tiny tiny arrow
[19:04] <charlie-tca> heh
[19:04] <ochosi> it's basically a light-grey dot
[19:04] <ochosi> i think it even looks kinda nice
[19:04] <charlie-tca> I was really liking the arrow-less scrollbar
[19:05] <charlie-tca> But, if we must...
[19:05] <ochosi> yeah, i think then you might like this too
[19:05] <ochosi> it's rather subtle
[19:05] <ochosi> on bad screens people might not even see the dot
[19:05] <ochosi> but it's usable
[19:05] <ochosi> meaning you can click it
[19:05] <ochosi> which is also kinda nice
[19:05] <charlie-tca> can't click what you can't see
[19:05] <ochosi> unless you know where it is ;)
[19:06] <charlie-tca> true, or it is a mistake and you don't know why something scrolled
[19:06] <ochosi> well, if you click the trough, you scroll anyway
[19:06] <ochosi> but if you click where the arrows should be, it scrolls less
[19:06] <ochosi> screener: http://imagebin.org/159825
[19:07] <charlie-tca> Hm, I wonder if we will get bug reports for them being too hard to see?
[19:08] <charlie-tca> It's fine for me, I know what it is, but I don't want users screaming at us for them, either.
[19:08] <charlie-tca> Want to try it?
[19:09] <charlie-tca> I am willing to see what happens
[19:11] <charlie-tca> Have you pushed anything to oneiric yet?
[19:11] <ochosi> k, sure, i'll quickly push the most recent version
[19:11] <ochosi> one sec
[19:12] <ochosi> btw, i made the scrollbar 1px wider so it's easier to grab (and in fact somehow murrine renders it nicer)
[19:13] <charlie-tca> It would get more eyes looking at it, and more feedbck.
[19:13] <charlie-tca> Great! I like that idea
[19:13] <charlie-tca> I was thinking about that this morning. It seemed a bit narrow to me at times.
[19:14] <ochosi> ok, just pushed it
[19:15] <charlie-tca> to git or to bzr?
[19:15] <ochosi> hm, about user-reports and the arrows, i guess it would be an option to show some early screenshots on planet.ubuntu.org and see whether people start shouting early
[19:15] <ochosi> to git
[19:15] <charlie-tca> Yeah, that would be a good thing to get out in front, wouldn't it?
[19:15] <charlie-tca> I am going grab it
[19:15] <ochosi> good
[19:16] <ochosi> actually in firefox the arrows are a bit more visible than in other apps
[19:16] <ochosi> but tbh honest firefox's xul scrollbars really don't work very well (no offense micahg ;) )
[19:16] <charlie-tca> That's because firefox insists on having them, right?
[19:17] <ochosi> yep
[19:17] <ochosi> btw, i tested midori's bookmarks migration
[19:17] <ochosi> it's really super-easy and works well
[19:17] <charlie-tca> blame micahg, then. We haven't blamed him for much yet ;)
[19:17] <charlie-tca> Yeah, neat, huh?
[19:17] <ochosi> yep, i think that was one of the big blockers for midori in xubuntu, no?
[19:17] <charlie-tca> The only issue I saw with midori was opening multiple tabs at once.
[19:18] <ochosi> how do you mean?
[19:18] <charlie-tca> yes, not being able to transfer bookmarks is a big deal
[19:18] <charlie-tca> I couldn't get it to let me open all 40+ tabs at one time
[19:18] <ochosi> oh
[19:19] <ochosi> 40+ tabs at once sounds more like a stresstest than an every-day usebase :)
[19:19] <charlie-tca> It wants me to open each one separately, but it might be something I did, too
[19:19] <ochosi> how did you open them?
[19:19] <ochosi> i'd like to try aswell
[19:19] <charlie-tca> I open those everyday, for bug triage
[19:19] <charlie-tca> firefox, it is just a right click on the folder in bookmarks, open all in tabs
[19:20] <charlie-tca> in midori, I couldn't find that option
[19:20] <ochosi> ah
[19:20] <ochosi> interesting
[19:20] <ochosi> i'll have a look
[19:20] <charlie-tca> and, it is not fun, doing that many individually, daily
[19:20] <charlie-tca> but, if that is all there is, shrugs
[19:20] <ochosi> actually it works for me
[19:21] <charlie-tca> really?
[19:21] <charlie-tca> Then it is me... I like midori, too
[19:21] <ochosi> i just right-clicked a folder in bookmarks and there is an option "open all in tabs"
[19:21] <ochosi> and it works
[19:21] <ochosi> at least for the three websites i had in that testfolder
[19:21] <ochosi> maybe you have an older version of midori?
[19:21] <charlie-tca> I will go try it again, then. Maybe it was old
[19:22]  * ochosi has 0.3.2
[19:23] <ochosi> midori doesn't have the scrollbar issues that firefox has ;)
[19:23] <ochosi> an in general it's a very pretty app since it's all gtk
[19:23] <charlie-tca> importing my bookmarks, let's see what happens. It looks like I tried it back in May
[19:24] <charlie-tca> I still would like to see us using it. I even suggested both midori and firefox, but I can't get an answer I like on that.
[19:24] <ochosi> you suggested it to whom?
[19:26] <charlie-tca> micahg and the meetings
[19:26] <charlie-tca> My midori is 0.3.6, and I can't find the bookmarks in it
[19:27] <ochosi> so when you're showing the sidepanel and switch to bookmarks, there is nothing?
[19:27] <charlie-tca> what sidepanel?
[19:27] <ochosi> click the menu-button (the gear) and then show sidepanel
[19:28] <ochosi> that's similar to ff's sidepanel
[19:28] <charlie-tca> found it
[19:28] <charlie-tca> without that, there are no bookmarks to access
[19:28] <charlie-tca> Okay, we would need that on by default, I think
[19:29] <charlie-tca> It is opening my tabs now
[19:29] <charlie-tca> micahg even agreed to midori, if we decided to use it this cycle
[19:30] <charlie-tca> That could be a space saver, couldn't it?
[19:30] <ochosi> guess so
[19:31] <ochosi> but i don't have the numbers anywhere near me :)
[19:31] <ochosi> anyhow, if you just start typing in the address bar your bookmarks will also show up
[19:31] <ochosi> like firefox's awesome bar
[19:31] <charlie-tca> Yeah, I never have learned how to use that damn thing in firefox
[19:31] <ochosi> so it's not completely hidden, rather trying to save screen estate
[19:31] <GridCube> lubuntu uses chromium
[19:32] <ochosi> hey GridCube 
[19:32] <GridCube> hey :)
[19:32] <ochosi> so i added tiny almost invisible arrows to the scrollbars, hope you're happy now ;) http://imagebin.org/159825
[19:33] <ochosi> but they're functionalö
[19:33] <GridCube> :D nice
[19:33] <ochosi> feel free to grab the latest version from git and try them live
[19:34] <ochosi> (and don't switch back to albatross immediately!)
[19:34] <charlie-tca> GridCube: yes, but we don't
[19:34] <GridCube> ok ochosi will do when i'm on my pc
[19:35] <GridCube> yes i know charlie-tca, i meant that if we want a small (functional) browser, chromium is a choice, not my choice, but a choice
[19:36] <charlie-tca> ochosi: if we have a chance for midori, I will start using it again
[19:36] <ochosi> charlie-tca: yeah, i'd say let's start testing it a bit more
[19:36] <charlie-tca> I can do that
[19:36] <charlie-tca> GridCube: We want to test midori, too
[19:36] <ochosi> there are enough arguments to at least discuss it again imo
[19:36] <charlie-tca> chromium been knocked out everytime, for a lot of different issues.
[19:37] <GridCube> :D
[19:37] <charlie-tca> The only reason we did not switch to midori for 11.04 was the bookmarks could not be imported.
[19:37] <GridCube> ok, good because i dont like chromium
[19:38] <GridCube> but then again, in the last weeks it has been the only browser unafected by the facebook/hotmail attacks to firefox
[19:39]  * ochosi is wondering why his midori version is so old compared to charlie-tca's...
[19:40] <charlie-tca> oneiric?
[19:40] <ochosi> yeah, guess so, i'm still on natty
[19:40] <charlie-tca> or am I pulling from the ppa again?
[19:40] <ochosi> but i decided to add the midori ppa now
[19:40] <charlie-tca> !info midori
[19:40] <charlie-tca> !info midori oneiric
[19:40] <charlie-tca> there it is
[19:40] <ochosi> mhm
[19:41] <ochosi> !info firefox oneiric
[19:41] <ochosi> ~30mb size difference
[19:41] <GridCube> D: thats a huge difference
[19:41] <ochosi> in just that package
[19:41] <micahg> ochosi: both natty and oneiric have Firefox 5
[19:41] <ochosi> micahg: yep, i know
[19:41] <micahg> GridCube: chromium in Lubuntu is counterintuitive as it's larger than firefox and uses more memory
[19:41] <charlie-tca> That is a lot of disk space, isn't it?
[19:42] <micahg> charlie-tca: what's the issue with let's see if we have space? :)
[19:42] <ochosi> well, it's not killing us i guess
[19:42] <ochosi> it's "just another argument"
[19:42] <charlie-tca> WE are way oversized, and have to keep gtk2 and gtk3, right?
[19:42] <micahg> !info chromium-browser
[19:42] <ochosi> from an artwork point of view i'm all for midori, because it's all gtk :)
[19:42] <micahg> charlie-tca: yeah, I'll fix that after alpha 2, the platform rally is next week and idk if I'll have time before that
[19:43] <charlie-tca> We still have hopes for midori, micahg 
[19:43] <micahg> charlie-tca: my guess is I can get both on the CD, but let's see what happens
[19:43] <ochosi> wow, midori's new speed dial is pretty fancy
[19:43] <micahg> midori won't take up much space it's just ATM we have none :)
[19:44] <charlie-tca> win/win
[19:45] <charlie-tca> I got to keep hoping, right ;)
[19:45] <ochosi> charlie-tca: have you tried "menu" > "customize toolbar" and then add the bookmarks there?
[19:45] <GridCube> question. what if, just what if, once one downloads/installs xubuntu a "choose your browser" app appears and lets you choose what browser to install?  like some windows installations have (OEM) that let you choose a browser on startup
[19:45] <micahg> charlie-tca: I think we can make it happen
[19:45] <charlie-tca> huh?
[19:45] <ochosi> charlie-tca: it gives you a nice star that shows all your bookmarks as a menu
[19:45] <charlie-tca> I can add it to a menu I don' t even have?
[19:45] <micahg> well, kubuntu has a firefox installer, but it makes sense for them as they don't want a GTK2 stack on their install
[19:45] <ochosi> GridCube: i think that edubuntu has something like that
[19:46] <charlie-tca> Where did you get this "customize" ?
[19:46] <charlie-tca> GridCube: we just throw them both into the menu and let the user choose
[19:46] <charlie-tca> It makes midori more visible
[19:47] <ochosi> charlie-tca: http://imagebin.org/159832
[19:47] <ochosi> charlie-tca: what you'll get is the star next to the pressed menu-button
[19:47] <charlie-tca> ochosi: I don't have that option
[19:48] <ochosi> i think that's a lot less obtrusive than showing the whole sidebar by default
[19:48] <ochosi> rly?
[19:48] <ochosi> then my midori is newer than yours ;)
[19:48] <ochosi> https://launchpad.net/~midori/+archive/ppa
[19:48] <ochosi> and
[19:48] <ochosi> https://launchpad.net/~webkit-team/+archive/ppa
[19:49] <ochosi> anyhow, will go for drinks with a few friends now
[19:49] <ochosi> feel free to ping me when you have greybird-feedback
[19:50] <ochosi> i'll read it in the backlog tomorrow
[19:50] <charlie-tca> here - http://imagebin.org/159834
[19:51] <charlie-tca> kubuntu offers both konqueror or something and firefox on the finished install
[19:51] <micahg> charlie-tca: kubuntu has rekonq by default with an installer for Firefox
[19:51] <ochosi> edubuntu's choice happens in the ubiquity dialog iirc
[19:51] <micahg> ochosi: that PPA has the same version as oneiric
[19:51] <ochosi> maybe we should look into that if there's enough space
[19:52] <ochosi> micahg: hm, the screenshots kinda tell a different story
[19:52] <charlie-tca> no, firefox is installed in oneiric, at least
[19:52] <charlie-tca> Maybe I got my options wrong in preferences, ochosi 
[19:53] <micahg> ochosi: maybe they have customizations or something, I just took what Debian had
[19:53] <ochosi> sry, i think i have the "toolbar customizer" extension installed
[19:53] <ochosi> s/installed/activated
[19:54] <ochosi> it should be a part of midori iirc
[19:54] <ochosi> with that you can add the button
[19:54] <ochosi> (i guess)
[19:54] <micahg> :)
[19:54] <charlie-tca> found it
[19:55] <charlie-tca> toolbar editor is an extension in midori
[19:55] <charlie-tca> I haven't played with the extensions
[19:56] <charlie-tca> but I will. I will start using it in place of firefox
[19:56]  * ochosi hasn't really either
[19:56] <ochosi> i've only tried the adblock
[19:56] <ochosi> and that seems to work ok
[19:56] <charlie-tca> I block ads with dnsmasq
[19:56] <ochosi> nice
[19:57] <ochosi> k, now i really g2g
[19:57] <charlie-tca> Since it is on my server, any machine I connect gets the ads blocked automatically
[19:57] <ochosi> see you around everyone!
[19:57] <charlie-tca> Have a good weekend
[19:57] <ochosi> thx you too
[20:34] <charlie-tca> hm, You can't export bookmarks in html from firefox?
[20:35] <GridCube> yes
[20:36] <GridCube> wait, yes, you can
[20:37] <charlie-tca> how?
[20:47] <GridCube> i dont have it in english, but is >bookmarks >manage bookmarks >import and save >save as html
[20:49] <charlie-tca> firefox 5.0; no manage bookmarks
[20:50] <charlie-tca> Maybe it just isn't my day for browsers :(
[20:50] <GridCube> O_o
[20:50] <GridCube> let me do some research
[20:51] <charlie-tca> I haven't found a single option yet today when told it was there, midori and firefox
[20:52] <GridCube> mmm
[20:52] <GridCube> what if you type >about:bookmarks
[20:56] <charlie-tca> losing battle.
[20:57] <charlie-tca> The URL is not recognized
[20:57] <GridCube> :P take the long road
[20:57] <GridCube> >help >information to solve problems >open containing folder >manually copy bookmarks.html
[21:00] <charlie-tca> ahem, there is none
[21:00] <GridCube> :(
[21:00] <charlie-tca> they are now json files
[21:00] <charlie-tca> I can't win today
[21:00] <charlie-tca> Even the backup files appear to be .json
[21:01] <charlie-tca> now... :(
[21:01] <GridCube> :/
[21:01] <GridCube> can i see your bookmarks menu display?
[21:01] <charlie-tca> so, is firefox getting like IE, lock the users in and forget about letting them do anything with any other browser?
[21:02] <GridCube> crtl+shift+b?
[21:04] <charlie-tca> This one? http://imagebin.org/159842
[21:05] <charlie-tca> That shortcut doesn't work, either
[21:06] <GridCube> oh
[21:07] <GridCube> is "show all bookmarks" ctrl-shift-o
[21:07] <GridCube> that should open a window and the last menu should be "export & backup" or something like that
[21:09] <charlie-tca> That's the one I lost. Thanks for being so persistent
[21:09] <GridCube> :D
[21:11] <GridCube> so its there, correct?
[21:12] <GridCube> its fun because even in spañish the names change if you use the "spain" or the "argentina" localization
[21:15] <charlie-tca> yeah, it is there
[22:46] <mr_pouit> ochosi: I can't find Bug #636532  upstream (it was reported for other plugins though). Am I blind tonight, or was it forgotten? :P
[22:48] <mr_pouit> also, I got a mail from LP that gridcube wants to join ~xubuntu-art
[22:48] <mr_pouit> grmpf
[22:49] <mr_pouit> mohkay, it seems actually neither knome nor you are in this team =]
[22:49] <mr_pouit> bwarf, that's a mess