[00:01] Mat84: OK, so if it's not the X server that crashed it must be something else, can you pastebin the output of dmesg ? [00:01] wow that's long [00:02] Mat84: There's a command you can install called pastebinit [00:04] hm, not sure how I'd get it from my laptop to this one [00:04] Mat84: Other than not starting graphics is the other laptop connected to the net? [00:05] I don't know [00:05] haven't used the internet from the console before [00:05] sorry :( [00:05] Mat84_: No problem; issue the command sudo apt-get install pastebinit [00:06] "WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated!" [00:07] It shouldn't do that [00:07] python-configjobj pastebinit [00:07] yeh, does that mean it's not online? [00:07] no [00:08] does it carry on and ask if you want to install it? [00:08] yweh [00:08] "install these packages without verification" [00:10] sorry, got disconnected, back now [00:12] Mat84: OK, so I think you can now do sudo dmesg | pastebinit [00:15] yeh, the laptop isn't online, it failed to resolved gb.archive.ubuntu.com [00:15] Cool. [00:15] Mat84_: Bah ok, erm what's the last few lines of the dmesg say [00:15] it's all stuff about the wireless card [00:16] cycling through the channels [00:17] Mat84_: hmm that's boring; hmm - well look, what you can try and do is move all the config files out of your user directory and see if that lets you loging [00:17] * penguin42 eats that last g [00:17] ok I'll give that a try [00:18] Mat84_: So, logged in on the console try something like mkdir baddotfiles; mv .g* .c* .X* .x* .m* baddotfiles [00:18] Mat84_: Then logout of the console and see if you can login on X - I may have missed some [00:18] ok, and that will leave all my work stuff alone yeh? [00:23] is says "mv: cannon stat .m* : No such file or directory" [00:23] what folder do I want to be in when I run the command? [00:26] your home directory; just leave the .m* off [00:26] is says it for all of them [00:26] Mat84_: It'll only move the files into the 'old' directory, it should leave work files etc - but even if it doesn't it'll dump them in old [00:27] odd - you really should have some dot files [00:28] this is from user@computer:~$ [00:28] yeh [00:29] haha, my brother was messing around with the 3 site trying to get it to send him the 3 skype android app, messing around changing the URL and stuff to trick it [00:29] and three just sent him a text message, "No." [00:30] haha [00:34] :D [00:35] there are some .files, but nothing starting with those letters... [00:36] could it be that be the problem? [00:36] ok, ignore my blatent disregard for English [00:37] *could that be the problem [00:39] I'm running Ubuntu 11.04 x64 I've install program and then removed it but when I go into 'Application' the icon is still in there. But when I click it nothing happens. How do I remove the icon? [00:41] penguin - should I maybe try creating a new user and see if they can log in? [00:44] Mat84_: Yes that's definitely a good idea [00:45] *crosses fingers* [00:46] ok, they've logged in fine... [00:48] Mat84_: Cool; so one or more of the . files in your old users directory is probably broke [00:48] ok [00:48] so for this user there is a .config folder [00:48] but there was not for me [00:52] would it be a stupid idea just to copy that directory? [00:59] I just created the empty directory .config [00:59] and it now works!! [00:59] can log in [00:59] thanks so much for your help penguin [01:02] Mat84_: I wonder where the heck your .config directory went?! [01:02] no idea [01:02] but it's a pretty big thing to have gone wrong!! [01:02] and why, if ubuntu didn't find one, it didn't create a default one? [01:03] all my application configurations have gone, but that's not a problem [01:03] maybe a few saved passwords in firefox I won't remember, but that's hardly the end of the world! [01:03] all my data is there which is the important thing [01:04] (and to be fair it was mostly backed up anyway) [01:04] Mat84_: Actually youre mozilla stuff probably is still there [01:05] nope :( [01:05] even though that was in a different dictory [01:06] Mat84_: Are you using encrypted home directory? [01:06] yeh [01:06] ok, keep an eye out to see if anything else has disappeared - sounds like ecryptfs had a bad day [01:07] hm, so you think some of my files might be corrupted/missing? [01:08] well, if .config disappeared who knows what else did [01:08] man I hope not [01:09] everything looks fine... [01:10] files I've checked all open ok, and anything important is backed up [01:11] I was thinking of installing gnome3, but I might leave it, had enough issues with ubuntu for this week! [01:11] gnome3 has bigger controls than gnome2 [01:11] yeh, you should only install it if you know how to dig yourself out of the whole it might create [01:12] other than that.. the differences are minimal. [01:12] and as you can tell penguin, I can't ;) [01:13] ? [01:14] jacob, I am not a strong enough linux/ubuntu user to fix any problems that switching to gnome3 might result it [01:14] *result in [01:15] i wouldn't bother with gnome3, unity is better [01:15] apps>paradigms. [01:16] I'm not a big fan of unity [01:16] it has its cons [01:17] * jacobw thinks 12.04 will be great :D [01:17] I'm just happy to not be using windows7, ubuntu broke last Sunday, and tonight was the first chance I've had to fix it [01:18] what's up with it? [01:18] nothing now :D [01:18] thanks to penguin [01:18] :D [01:19] but as it turned out, after a normal shutdown, couldn't log in, and the .config folder had gone! [01:19] i've also had trouble with ecryptfs [01:19] nothing I have is super confidential, maybe I should turn it off? [01:20] i'm sure its possible [01:20] sorry.. [01:20] not sure [01:20] * jacobw is silly with negations [01:20] ah ok [01:22] http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/ATT-No-Longer-Wants-Kevin-Mitnick-As-A-Customer-104035 [01:22] hahahaha [01:23] :) [01:25] hm, one thing that doesn't work, is evolution [01:25] mitnick is awesome [01:25] indeed [01:25] the guy who inspired me to learn about computers :| [01:26] in a time lapse however. [01:33] <^aDaM> Morning all :) [09:26] morning [09:28] \o [09:31] ahoy hoy saveloys! [09:31] gonna be a scorcher in the UK :) [09:33] danfish: what, with 15C and clouds? [09:37] MartijnVdS: heh - nah, already 24C in my garden :) [09:38] danfish: Sounds good :) [09:38] "Deep South"? ;) [09:39] just call me Bubba ;) [09:40] (apologies to any Americans from Louisiana for that gross generalisation) [09:44] local resident's association BBQ today - I'm wearing my Natty T-Shirt and have a few CD's in case asked :) [09:52] Is there a gnome app which will let me shrink a dvd9 to dvd5? [09:52] kvarley: there's dvd95 [09:53] kvarley: which should help :) [09:53] MartijnVdS: Thanks :) [09:54] never tried it though [10:01] conversion error with dvd95 lol [10:21] good morning everyone. [10:29] Morning [10:29] \o [10:32] morning daubers and MartijnVdS [11:14] HI all, I'm a little worried on the Firefox front with what I'v eread.. [11:15] why? [11:17] At least I trust Ubuntu devs will shim it to not lose too much in usability... [11:18] I'm an LTS-LTS user - I am not looking forward to having to relearn or yank more and more per-user addons to regain functionality.. [11:19] Major releases every 6 weeks?! [11:19] alexcockell: it is a browser. URL bar at the top, content below, click on the links to go other places. What could possibly go wrong? [11:20] Status bars? Adblocker, Noscript version handling... [11:20] Citrix plugins... [11:21] Even the handling of site login info, cookies, histry, cache... [11:21] How the hell am i supposed to verify that plugin x isn't going to bork my browser? [11:22] hmm, dunno, how do you do that now? [11:22] the only plugin I use is firebug [11:22] I use Adblocker (ok, from the repos) [11:22] Noscript.. [11:23] But I also have a lappie running XP that I use to remotely work.. [11:23] And that's still on 3.6.18... as are the Lucid client.. [11:24] I am missing the part where it is going to lose functionality or break cookies etc. [11:24] But it seems crazy that Mozilla haven't thought of the enterprise. [11:24] Yeah - but a tab-bar which scrolls? Rather than being able to tell at a glance all the tabs you have open? [11:24] * daubers sorts out his workspaces [11:25] Apparently there are *all kinds* of usability own-goals.. [11:25] yeah, it has a tab bar that scrolls when the tabs get unreadably small [11:26] there is a little dropdown to the right of it which gives you a menu list of all the tab names [11:27] The problem is - there is no easy way for a nontechie to revert that behaviour in Edit/Prefs (or Tools/options inm Win version) [11:27] why would a non-techie care/notice? [11:27] You'd be surprised. [11:27] I now do capacity planning - but I used to do support.. [11:28] people should be beaten until the stop getting annoyed by the littlest changes [11:28] or something [11:28] As in "user blindly accepts update - functionality is apparently broken without warning" [11:29] user blindly accepts update, sees facebook still works, shrugs, continues pretending to work [11:29] Hmm - however most of the user community have learned through "monkey see monkey do" processes. [11:29] But reverting this behaviour apparently requires a developer-level change. [11:29] Rather than a check-box on the Appearance tab. [11:30] well it is just a UI improvement for people who have more than 14 tabs open [11:30] 20 tabs on my other screen before it scrolls [11:30] Yeah... but the methods for chaning/reverting requires the modification of a stylesheet... [11:31] mozilla don't really care about long-term support models. and their enterprise support generally is pooey [11:31] Which, if a user got it wrong, could bork the browser (effectively) [11:31] still no group policy stuff on windows [11:31] Yup - they're just handing it back to MS on a platter.. [11:31] you could write a plugin to change the tab behaviour [11:32] Yeah - but another 3rd-party app.. another potential security issue.. another app to maintain... [11:32] in general I think there should be more ldap/policy stuff in open source software, that is a fair point [11:33] its nice to see that the world still rotates and the problems stay so small especially on IRC... [11:33] problem is.... ldap is both hard and sucks [11:33] yes, ldap should suck less [11:34] Agreed... [11:34] I never entirely got my head round it, everything seems to want a totally different and conflicting schema [11:35] friend of my /2 [11:35] bah! [11:41] Gah [11:41] Wifes laptop stops responding to the network, she pulls the router power, I lose a half completed 4.3GB download [11:43] wget -c : [11:43] server doesn't like you doing that [11:43] I think it upsets the sources load balancer [11:43] Get a better server ;) [11:43] MartijnVdS: Not mine! Apples [11:44] wifey tells me one of her friends (who is a windows-hater) wants to get a 'netbook' for her daughter. but doesnt want windows on it. [11:44] dunno what apps she'll need but this is 'for school work' (hah) [11:45] So she might need a Windows VM wayway? [11:45] *anyway? [11:45] I wouldn't put a Windows VM on a netbook [11:46] Yeah - point taken. [11:46] it's also two OSs to manage rather than one [11:49] http://chrome.angrybirds.com/ works on firefox too \o/ [11:51] smoother in chromium [11:56] heh, just opened firefox on this computer, last time I used it was december last year [12:00] Ooooh new phones week next week \o/ [12:00] Need to ask O2 for my PAK code [12:01] ITYM PUK code [12:01] thats the welly [12:01] Getting a Nexus S from work as my new work phone and a galaxy s 2 on my personal contract \o/ [12:03] popey: sometimes things open in firefox, sometimes in chromium, mostly I don't know which I am using [12:05] so for messing about with compiz plugins I decided I needed two computers, so I can ssh into the one I will be breaking [12:06] should I install oneirirc on it I wonder [12:07] tempted to switch to SSD on all my computers now [12:07] just lack of storage space that's annoying [12:08] popey: you could use a NAS for that (like my Synology.. ♥) [12:08] yeah [12:08] i have a server with lots of space [12:08] but right now its.. [12:08] Directory inode 2848245 has an unallocated block #3452. Allocate? yes [12:08] doing a fsck... [12:08] ☹ [12:09] oops? [12:09] i shrank the volume [12:09] now fsck is reporting lots of those [12:28] shrinking volumes is essentially playing russian roulette with your data :/ [12:30] popey: I have a NAS in the office thats stuffed with SSDs \o/ [12:30] Do want one for my mac mini and one for my laptop though :( [12:31] AlanBell: smartphone ssh client? [12:31] irssi connectbot [12:32] yeah [12:32] ah, I missed the beginning of that conversation :) [12:45] hmm last nights xorg-edgers seems to be very unhappy for me [12:54] what happened? [12:57] black screen on kde, but some stuff running; when I did a kwin --replace form a console I got streams of errors 'this is a driver bug' out of it - unfortunately didn't remember the rest of the message - pre-breakfast bug [12:58] I'm a bit surprised actually to ind xorg-edgers contains a rebuilt kdebase-workspace [12:59] only noticed it while doing a purge [13:06] hmm breakfast is a good idea === Monster_Killer is now known as MonsterKiller [14:11] anyone use unetbootin? it just comes up with Boot Error for me [14:12] I've used it several times without that error [14:13] I've used unetbootin many times without problem, both using a manually downloaded ISO and the ones it downloads for me. [14:13] In fact, once I've got over it's weird insistence upon my having already mounted the volume, I don't think I've ever had a problem [14:13] AlanBell: IIRC I get the boot error with the server CD [14:13] ah, think it is because the usb was formatted to fat32 [14:13] thinking about it, it's been a while since I did a ubuntu with it [14:14] Ah, or anything other than ext [14:14] * AlanBell reformats to ext3 and tries again [14:14] uh [14:14] it _should_ be fat32 [14:14] or vfat or whatever you call it [14:14] I was about to say what popey said. [14:15] http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-general-1/unetbootin-always-boot-error-upon-reboot-704042/ [14:19] Mac Minutes are rubbish [14:30] for all the things i dislike in gnome shell, there are a few nice things - its nice that when you open activities all your windows are there - never really used expose ever [14:30] well it doesn't seem to work with ext3 either, but different error [14:31] gord: I _love_ the empathy integration in gnome 3 [14:31] with fat32 I get Boot Error, with ext3 it says missing operating system, then boots from hdd [14:31] AlanBell: I'm confused - I thought unetbootin did everything needed to the drive; I don't think you need to format anything [14:31] or gnome shell or whatever it's called [14:31] AlanBell: You are telling unetbootin to use /dev/sdx not /dev/sdx1 ? [14:31] penguin42: I didn't either [14:31] the main thing that bugs me about shell is how damn slow it is [14:31] penguin42: I did tell it to use /dev/sdb [14:31] I really dislike how it removes my workspaces just 'cause there's nothing on them [14:32] I've no idea who thought that was a sane idea [14:32] gord: Javascript - what else do you need to say? [14:32] i mean, it took us six months of effort to get away from mutter, but it was worth it. you just can't stall the rendering pipeline in the window manager like clutter does [14:39] i can't figure out how to get it to launch a second instance of some application without it going to a new workspace, but i assume i'm just using my computer wrong [14:40] there's a lot of htat in gnome3. "No, that's not what you want to do, so I did this for you" [14:50] * AlanBell gives up on unetbootin and tries startup disk creator [15:07] boot error [15:16] yay, fixored [15:16] that is worth writing up somewhere [15:17] the bios was set to treat small USB devices as removeable disks and large ones as fixed disks [15:17] tell it to stop that auto detection and treat it as a fixed disk and it boots [15:18] interesting, [15:20] now to plug in speakers for an eyes-free install [15:21] is this the new netbook? [15:21] no, it is an atom 230 desktop [15:25] * AlanBell debugs sound issue and plugs speakers into power for enhanced audio performance [15:28] Hmmm, new version of xcode integrates git into the ide [15:29] Also, my chair needs oiling [15:29] I think mine needs new seals [15:29] I'm about 2" lower than I was this morning :/ [16:14] people complain about eclipse being memory hungry, at least it doesn't freeze the whole desktop like xcode does!!! [16:16] lets just..... complain [16:16] ;) [16:16] rabble rabble [16:17] after watching that last Grand Prix, I don't think my brain is active enough to think of stuff to complain about [16:17] I've been finding xcode relaly quite strange. I'm used to vim. I'm not used to it constantly whining about how sloppy I am [16:18] hehe [16:18] shauno: and "Syntax error: unexpected :w" all over the place? [16:18] "but I wanted it like that damn it!" [16:18] :D [16:19] hitting cmd-s I'm used to. having it constantly inject little threats about uninitialised vars is funky [16:19] how do you remove a new line in vim? [16:20] backspace? [16:20] I can never get that working [16:20] or s/\r// [16:20] or \n [16:21] yeah, \n [16:21] s/\n// [16:22] hmmm [16:22] it is removing the new line in vi on debian now [16:22] I swear I've had problems with it before [16:23] well, it depends what the newline is [16:23] that wont match a dos newline [16:23] yay, oneiric installed and working [16:23] whoo! [16:23] just wish unity would play nicer with other compiz plugins [16:26] oh yeah, any unity-on-a-laptop users fancy confirming whether bug 685338 is in unity? I can't see it not being so... [16:26] Launchpad bug 685338 in gnome-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Cannot ignore pressing of hibernate button" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/685338 [16:26] AlanBell: I wonder if "a compiz plugin" is the right place for it [16:27] i repeat, this time when not knocked offline: argh [16:29] MartijnVdS: I don't object to it being one, but it has some silly dependencies and settings which really shouldn't matter to unity [16:30] like it depends on largedesktop, which is provided by wall, and cube, and someone chose wall as the one it would insist on [16:31] try to turn on cube and it gets all in a fluster and you end up with no desktop no nothing, so have to ssh in and do unity --reset [16:31] which breaks all the other settings you changed [16:31] ah yes, things like that [16:36] Hello all. [16:38] havn't seen you around in a while DanielRM :P [16:38] DanielRM: good afternoon, long time no speak. [16:42] I've been feeling the IRC itch recently. :P [16:43] Plus I have a decent phone now so I can use IRC on the go. [16:43] How are you all? === tom__ is now known as Aquilum [16:44] DanielRM: not bad, interesting things have happened. and you? also we have been looking after ##politics-uk. [16:45] I'm fine thanks. [16:45] :) [16:46] Who thought of the current topic there incidentally? I owe them a drink, it made me laugh. :) [16:46] DanielRM: i think that was AlanBell. [16:46] what is it? [16:46] 'Current topic: AV Yes, No, or a quantum entanglement of Maybe?' [16:47] AlanBell: should I ever meet you then I owe you a drink, be sure to remind me. :P [16:47] :) [16:51] Hmm - how to really cane an ADSL connection.. outside lots of Linux maint work.. [16:51] ... lots of video or audio streams from BBC servers... [16:53] Oh - was meaning to ask - when 12.04 is being approached... are there plans to offer definitive hardware compatibility info based on actual systems? [16:53] Considering Mark Shuttleworth's intention to go after consumers... [16:54] people aren't really thinking on that level about 12.04 yet [16:54] Not so much "will this or that component behave, but more akin to the netbook maint list... [16:54] As in - "Will the upgrade take on my Lenovo Ideapad S12" [16:55] alexcockell: there's the Ubunty Friendly program [16:55] But offering lookups based on complete systems. [16:55] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly [16:56] Yeah - OK - I bypassed that by buying my machines preinstalled from Linux Emporium - but I am a little concerned with all the issues around Unity and how much of a relearn it might be.. [16:56] it's not that hard :) [16:56] and as long as the machine is not older than ~2-3 years and has hardware acceleration, you're fine wrt. 3D support [16:57] Going from Windows to Hardy to Lucid on my Thinkpad R61 was only a little incremental... but muscle memory was usable. [16:58] Unity is the same, as long as you turn off the global menu bits [16:58] All the keyboard shortcuts remain, as far as I can tell [16:59] Yeah - but maybe that ought to be sensed - so if someone is upgrading from Lucid it switches it off by default and gives you the option of turning them *on*? [16:59] but the global menu is seen as a feture [16:59] *feature [17:00] by that logic, if you're upgrading to 11.04 it should notice and leave gnome 2 as the default DE [17:00] Maybe if you're a Mac user coming across - but not coming in from Windows. [17:01] Surely a feature is a feature, irrespective of what other things you might've used? [17:01] Yeah - ease people in - cos they might be concerned if they;'re upgrading and maybe the WLAN card craps out.. or the display plays up.. they don't really want to be mucking about with a new UI as well. [17:01] Question - have you wirked in 2nd line support? [17:01] but then you'd never change anything by default [17:01] *worked [17:01] and then you'd be running Debian [17:02] (which, incidentally, is why I'm running Debian) [17:02] Hmm - yeah -- I can kind of see where you're coming from... [17:02] * brobostigon is on debian right now, with gnome3/gnome-shell, and it is pretty much perfect. [17:02] But I'm thinking of people tracking LTS-LTS on a machine they've bought preinstalled.. [17:02] still, at some point they'll get given unity [17:02] they bought it 2 years ago! time for a new machine! :P [17:03] Argh, apparently IRC doesn't like staying connected. [17:03] and were it believed by canonical/ubuntu that unity was confusing enough that you don't want to risk using it, they'd not ship it at all [17:03] the problem is that canonical disagree with several vocal users :) [17:03] MartijnVdS: yep, netbook-remix. [17:03] BigRedS: and common sense [17:03] MartijnVdS: have you been watching those MS ads? :) [17:03] Netbook-remix makes sense... on a netbook. [17:03] BigRedS: no, and I don't work for a hardware company either ;) [17:03] haha [17:04] I just like the shiny -- waiting for Intel to release Ivy Bridge i7s so I can upgrade :) [17:04] Unity probably makes sense on a display up to about 11 or 12in... [17:04] ms's current ad is basically "This woman's running an old PC and that makes her an idiot. You wouldn't want to be an idiot, would you?" [17:04] i use it on a 23" screen alexcockell [17:04] 1920x1080 [17:04] Unity works as fine for me on this biggy screen as gnome2 or kde or whatever did [17:04] Ooh look, popey has more inches :P [17:04] Apparently I just got 'outed' as a member of LulzSec. 0_0 [17:05] 23" or something, it's vast [17:05] OK.. [17:05] BigRedS: "Staggeringly vast" [17:05] wow, coupling.. blast from the past [17:06] hah, yeah, that took a moment or two to register [17:06] popey: Moffat has always been good :) [17:07] I would, however, like to suggest that maybe easing people into the more jarring parts of the UI would be a good idea for the next LTS.. [17:07] easing people in? So supporting not just two UIs but several degrees between them? [17:07] MartijnVdS: was that his work!? [17:07] What's Unity like for day-to-day use now? [17:07] Maybe have it detect that it's being upgraded rather than clean-installed... [17:07] popey: yes :) [17:08] DanielRM: I find it absolutely fine. But I don't use menus and that's where most of the dislike appears to come from [17:08] blimey, news [17:08] alexcockell: still, that's another setup, so more support & more bugs [17:08] DanielRM: in my experience the vast majority of hatred for unity comes from three camps:- [17:08] popey: (also, "Steve" and "Susan" vs "Steven" and "Sue" irl) [17:08] a) people who have used it and don't like it [17:08] b) people who don't use it and don't like it [17:08] c) people who will never use it and don't like it [17:09] b) and c) are bizarrely quite vocal [17:09] Those could all be the same person :) [17:09] popey: because they want to keep the option to not use it [17:09] popey: and that option is becoming harder to find by the day [17:09] that option has never not been there [17:09] pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft [17:09] it's as easy as it always has been [17:09]