[00:02] <sn9> some of those penguins are gay
[00:09] <MarkDude> yep
[01:15] <EminemGirl> Sorry i'm being anti-social
[01:15] <EminemGirl> hello all
[02:16] <grantbow> EminemGirl: greetings
[02:29] <MarkDude> Dangerous G - grantbow how goes it
[02:29] <MarkDude> ?
[02:29] <MarkDude> Nice seeing you the other night
[02:49] <EminemGirl> grantbow:Sorry i wasn't feeling that well so i was sleeping
[02:57] <grantbow> MarkDude: great
[02:57] <grantbow> EminemGirl: I hope you feel better
[02:58] <EminemGirl> thx
[06:31] <MarkDude> Ok they are showing the pride parade on TV
[06:31] <MarkDude> I think the rest of the country might freak the eff out if they saw some of it
[06:31] <MarkDude> Looks like it was a party
[06:39] <MarkDude> Awesome- gay angels and a rainbow cross
[06:40]  * MarkDude is watching it with Grandma
[13:31] <TURKEYMAN21> hi friends
[13:32] <TURKEYMAN21> ?????
[13:33] <TURKEYMAN21> girl
[13:33] <TURKEYMAN21> you
[13:34] <TURKEYMAN21> my male
[13:34] <TURKEYMAN21> good bye friends
[18:28] <crashsystems> Are there any Perl devs in the channel who are looking for a job? I seem to recall seeing one a while ago.
[18:28] <seidos> i'm looking for an apprenticeship, and i've done some perl
[18:29] <seidos> do you have a job description crashsystems ?
[18:30] <crashsystems> https://www.whitehatsec.com/abt/careers.html not sure if we do apprenticeships or not.
[18:34] <seidos> i'm finding not many people do.  the only apprenticeships i've found are in more construction oriented jobs.
[18:35] <seidos> there was an internship i applied to for syynlabs.com though
[18:35] <seidos> well, just looking at the description, i don't have a B.S. or M.S. in comp sci, and i wouldn't say my OO perl is "strong"
[18:36] <seidos> i think i just have a foundation in perl
[18:36] <seidos> tbh
[18:37] <crashsystems> I enjoy the degree abbreviation of B.S.
[18:37] <pleia2> fwiw I find education requirements somewhat nonsense, I focus on skills listings
[18:37] <pleia2> in tech experience frequently trumps BS ;)
[18:37] <seidos> i enjoy the B.A. degree abbreviation
[18:38] <sn9> bad attitude
[18:38] <sn9> b.a.
[18:38] <seidos> it means "mooning" in my head
[18:38] <sn9> how so?
[18:38] <seidos> happy moon day, btw
[18:38] <seidos> the B is for bare
[18:38] <sn9> oh
[18:39] <seidos> B.A. probably hasn't meant that since the 80s though
[18:39] <nhaines> I've been lucky a couple times by ignoring the education requirements and listing experience.
[18:39] <seidos> i tend to take what someone posts at face value
[18:39] <seidos> if it says x-y-z requirement, and i don't have it, then i don't apply
[18:40] <seidos> it is says "preferred" then i apply
[18:40] <seidos> it=if
[18:40] <seidos> blah, you know what i mean
[18:40] <sn9> well, in my case, there are always, always, always requirements that i don't have
[18:40] <sn9> just different ones each time
[18:41] <sn9> some of them are unwritten, too
[18:41] <seidos> i apply to like 3 posititions a week that i meet the basic requirements, around
[18:41] <seidos> well, i applied for a volunteership at kaiser last week
[18:41] <seidos> so, they aren't necessarily tech related jobs
[18:42] <nhaines> I don't apply for anyhthing I can't do (or couldn't after a month of training).
[18:42] <sn9> well, most things i can't do
[18:42] <seidos> hmmm, a month of training...
[18:42] <seidos> it depends how one defines "Do", i guess
[18:42] <nhaines> But for example when I worked at Fonality my Linux experience and teaching experience was a huge plus.  It didn't matter that I didn't Asterisk or VoIP experience.
[18:43] <sn9> how do you make it not matter?
[18:43] <seidos> i think i'm just looking for a place that i can get along with the people that work there, then work my way up
[18:43] <seidos> but, i'm not in a hurry anymore
[18:43] <nhaines> And when I referred Anna there she didn't have any "real" IT experience (it was all contract work) but she had a ton of customer service experience and they hired her based on that.
[18:44] <sn9> i'd prefer a place where there is stuff to do that i can do, then work my way up
[18:44] <nhaines> sn9: anyone who is technically proficient can learn any specific skill.  That's not difficult at all.  And they already have to train you for their products and quirks anyway.
[18:44] <sn9> and i am in more of a hurry than ever
[18:44] <nhaines> sn9: so if you have solid related experience sometimes a clueful manager will look at that and decide to accept your application anyway.
[18:45] <seidos> sn9: that is unfortunate.  do you have anyone that can help you out in a pinch?
[18:45] <sn9> nhaines: that's always blindingly obvious, but requires that one be given a chance, which i have not seen happen
[18:45] <sn9> seidos: explain
[18:45] <seidos> sn9: food, rent, utilities (in that order)
[18:46] <sn9> seidos: it's been difficult
[18:46] <seidos> sn9: you're in sacramento now right?  have you looked at the jobs at the dmv?
[18:46] <nhaines> sn9: I've had it happen a couple of times.  The trick is to get that resume in.  :)
[18:47] <sn9> seidos: friend of mine worked at the dmv; i wouldn't last a month there
[18:47] <seidos> sn9: you can't just lay low?
[18:47] <sn9> nhaines: that would require having something on a resume that anyone wants
[18:48] <nhaines> sn9: you're crazy smart when it comes to hardware.  I'm sure you have something that could go on a resume.
[18:48] <sn9> not to my knowledge
[18:49] <nhaines> Get a friend to help you with it.
[18:49] <sn9> also, i keep getting told that i'm not a hardware person and never can be, because i have a software mindset
[18:50] <sn9> ne'er the twain shall meet
[18:50] <sn9> no one has been able to help in a particularly useful capacity
[18:51] <seidos> it probably helps to be able to design hardware to be called a hardware person
[18:51] <nhaines> sn9: do you program?
[18:51] <sn9> seidos: that is the conventional wisdom, which i believe to be no longer true
[18:51] <seidos> i wonder if this graphic is a metaphor for free software and employment:  http://i.imgur.com/LjNHU.jpg
[18:52] <sn9> nhaines: my language of choice is C, but without python skills, that doesn't go far
[18:52] <seidos> sn9: are you saying there isn't a demand for individuals with the capacity to design hardware?
[18:53] <nhaines> sn9: python is fun and easy.
[18:53] <sn9> "capacity" means nothing. demonstrated skill is everything
[18:54] <seidos> capacity right now is what is meant.  i wasn't talking about potential.
[18:54] <pleia2> seidos: have you tried temp agencies? I did temp to hire and eventually got into a pretty decent accounting position
[18:54] <seidos> pleia2: yeah, i've been around the block several times
[18:54] <sn9> nhaines: i've never been able to fully grasp the whole OOP concept, because it does not exist at the cpu level
[18:54] <seidos> i'll get something, i'm not really worried.  thanks for your concern pleia2
[18:54] <sn9> seidos: potential is all i can offer
[18:55] <nhaines> sn9: it depends on the job.  Tech support call center jobs require customer service skills as much as technical skills.
[18:55] <sn9> well, i don't have those
[18:55] <sn9> i'm a technical person, not a politician
[18:56] <seidos> hmmm
[18:56] <seidos> it's amazing what we're willing to do to survive
[18:57] <sn9> willingness is not as important as skill
[18:57] <seidos> skill takes practice
[18:57] <seidos> nobody is born a politician
[18:57] <sn9> some learn better than others
[18:57] <seidos> customer service doesn't necessarily mean lying, either.  just a positive attitude, really.
[18:57] <nhaines> Willingness is more important than skill, because skills are acquired.
[18:57] <seidos> some have too much ego to learn
[18:58] <seidos> myself especially :)
[18:58] <nhaines> On the downside, that means I have to admit that my skill in juggling scarves is on purpose.  :)
[19:02] <seidos> speaking of perl, i wanted to run the perl bot i made again, but the code is on a hdd, and i don't have a monitor for a desktop (left it @ ma's) or an enclosure so it'll going to have to wait 'til july
[19:03] <seidos> the tao of type-o do
[19:04] <MarkDude> Ability to learn new skills is heavy in demand
[19:04] <seidos> hey MarkDude
[19:04] <MarkDude> many times they just want to know you can learn there stuff
[19:04] <MarkDude> hey there seidos
[19:05] <seidos> the problem is how to convince them you can with a cover letter and a resume
[19:05] <seidos> maybe make you resume in Tex
[19:05] <seidos> that's probably something i could work on
[19:06] <seidos> i think it's d'oh in the west, and not do
[19:06] <sn9> i'm not great with learning new skills
[19:07] <seidos> sn9: i find that hard to believe
[19:08] <seidos> i think contract work might be good for me right now.  "get $task done, and we'll pay you $fee"
[19:09] <seidos> it would certainly be a way to build trust, i would think
[19:10] <seidos> sn9: if i had $fee, i would hire you.  i'm not sure i could afford you though.
[19:10] <seidos> what's the going rate for potential these days, anyway?
[19:10] <seidos> $2?
[19:11] <seidos> hehe
[19:19] <sn9> i can learn new skills just fine, but it exhausts everyone's patience
[19:26] <seidos> sn9: want to work with me today?  we negotiate your fee in a pm
[19:26] <seidos> si se puede
[19:27] <seidos> i gotta' count my cash.  i think i have $100
[19:28] <seidos> i think i have $5 in my paypal account, and yes, i'm serious
[19:28] <seidos> if you don't have paypal, it will get complicated, because my checking account is tapped right now
[19:36] <sn9> seidos: awesome; my number is (408)37-COMPU
[19:37] <sn9> i have to leave in a min, but you can call me as i drive. me out.
[19:38] <seidos> sn9: number didn't work :(
[19:38] <sn9> you might have misdialed
[19:39] <seidos> sn9: tried twice
[19:39] <seidos> :)
[19:39] <sn9> if you have a blackberry or something, you might want to doublecheck the digits
[19:41] <seidos> sn9: nope, just on regular land line.  408-37-26678
[19:43] <sn9> did you dial the leading 1 for the area code, then?
[19:43] <seidos> sn9: yeah, says "call cannot be completed as dialed"
[19:44] <sn9> i've gotten calls on it today already, so i know it works
[19:44] <seidos> maybe this phone doesn't have a long distance carrier
[19:45] <sn9> duh
[19:45] <seidos> it's not my phone
[19:45] <sn9> you can check (on an at&t line) by dialing 1-700-555-4141
[19:47] <sn9> not sure about verizon lines
[19:48] <seidos> i'll just use my cell phone
[19:48] <sn9> the 562 number?
[19:49] <seidos> yeah
[19:49] <seidos> i'm trying to reinstall a hdd, it was easier to pull out
[19:53] <seidos> der, i had the enclosure's prongs in the wrong slots
[20:00] <MarkDude> derp
[20:00] <MarkDude> :)
[20:00] <MarkDude> Sounds like sumthin' I would do
[20:37] <seidos> no harm no foul :)
[20:37] <seidos> now a diff problem
[20:41] <seidos> hardware problem, it can wait for 2 weeks
[20:43] <seidos> cool picture of the golden gate bridge:  http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnfp1rhkXh1qc39i3o1_500.jpg
[20:44] <seidos> how funny:  dollar replaced soon?  http://cancelourdebt.blogspot.com/2011/06/dollar-replacement-soon-russia-and.html
[20:44] <seidos> probably replaced by bitcoins
[20:49] <seidos> has anyone accumulated any bitcoins?  i tried mining some, but didn't have the computational power
[22:21] <seidos> is anybody planning on working with diaspora?  perhaps setting up an ubuntu sponsored server for ubuntu folks?
[22:26] <MarkDude> seidos, I tried it a few months ago
[22:26] <MarkDude> It was painful
[22:26] <MarkDude> I figured I would check in again after Summer
[22:26] <MarkDude> hoping
[22:27] <pleia2> I'm only on facebook because that's what non-geek people use (old friends, family), diaspora is only used by geeks so far, and geeks know how to contact me properly ;)
[22:27] <pleia2> it's like identi.ca and twitter
[22:28] <seidos> hey philipballew
[22:28] <seidos> ah, it isn't a feasible facebook replacement in reality
[22:28] <philipballew> hey seidos!
[22:28] <seidos> philipballew: sam is a character in a novel i wrote, fyi
[22:29] <philipballew> oh nice, haha. whats the novel about?
[22:29] <seidos> philipballew: confusion
[22:31] <philipballew> sounds like its deep
[22:31] <seidos> deep and shallow
[22:32] <seidos> just like identi.ca isn't a feasible replacement for twitter
[22:32] <MarkDude> Not yet seidos it is theoretically possible next year
[22:33] <MarkDude> not likely tho
[22:33] <philipballew> how so MarkDude ?
[22:33] <MarkDude> Well it has to be smooth 1st
[22:33] <MarkDude> it is not yet
[22:33] <MarkDude> once it was smooth
[22:34] <MarkDude> it could be possible for regular folks to use it
[22:34]  * MarkDude likes idea of something keeping FB in check
[22:34] <MarkDude> Like how I like that bing exists
[22:34] <seidos> there isn't much going on w/ facebook anymore
[22:34] <seidos> at least w/ me
[22:35] <MarkDude> I dont want MS to rock it, but, keeping Googles in check is a good thing
[22:35] <nhaines> !enter
[22:35] <Eureka> Please try to keep your questions/responses on one line - don't use the "Enter" key as punctuation!
[22:35] <seidos> i wonder if twitter is the reason
[22:35] <MarkDude> Well twitter can get in way
[22:35]  * MarkDude has to remind self to use it
[22:35] <seidos> i just import feeds from twitter into facebook
[22:36] <seidos> i don't sign in to facebook very often anymore
[22:36] <seidos> and when i do, it's pretty much dead
[22:36] <seidos> "...and when i do, i drink dos equis"
[22:37] <MarkDude> yes nhaines I will keep my responses on one line, where ever possible. I like going on fb. It helps me keep in touch, there are a few nephews and nieces it would be harder to keep up with. Matt likes doing parkour, seeing pics of him doing that is kinda cool to me
[22:37] <MarkDude> :)
[22:37] <nhaines> There we go, that's far easier to read.
[22:37] <MarkDude> np
[22:38] <seidos> parkour is pretty cool...i just rarely have a destination
[22:38] <seidos> and running through people's backyards, a la ferris bueller doesn't seem like a good idea unless it's an emergency
[22:38] <MarkDude> Well, it is about the groups too. I like talking with folsk that have similar interests
[22:39] <seidos> i'm not really involved w/ active groups on facebook.  there's the bhikku samahita group, but it's pretty uni-directional
[22:39]  * MarkDude would not recommend the trespassing thing, unles you gotta good reason
[22:39] <MarkDude> No- he answered a question I had
[22:40] <MarkDude> Waay better than anyone I have asked before, btw
[22:40] <seidos> MarkDude: like i said, pretty uni-directional
[22:40] <seidos> he is the expert, so there isn't much cross talk
[22:40]  * MarkDude suggests that is a very non-Buddhist way to look at it
[22:40] <seidos> i follow him via email and twitter too
[22:41] <seidos> i'm just observing and reporting
[22:41] <seidos> it's not a bad thing, it's just how it appears to me
[22:41] <MarkDude> teacher/student = one word. Master, journeyer, apprentice- they all chop wood carry water
[22:41] <seidos> i'm not sure that is the case re: the Dhamma
[22:42] <seidos> Bhikku Samahita has specialized in the Dhamma, it would be expected that he would comprehend it better than most
[22:42]  * MarkDude 's understanding is that everything is connected. Even the fish at the bottom of the mountain is linked to start of stream at top
[22:43] <seidos> that is also my understanding
[22:43] <MarkDude> Well he has a differing background(doctor)- do you listen to Buddhist Geeks?
[22:43] <seidos> i think there's a word in Pali for interdependence
[22:43] <seidos> i'm listening to you, aren't i MarkDude?  :P
[22:44]  * MarkDude always thought the Buddha would prefer speakers to use native language when possible :D
[22:44] <MarkDude> lol
[22:44] <seidos> Da and Ma is quite native
[22:44] <MarkDude> It is podcast
[22:44] <MarkDude> Sure from Proto Indo European roots  XD
[22:44] <seidos> native languages may not have words that really translate well, and coining words ain't easy
[22:44] <seidos> i think it may be a little more fundamental than that
[22:45] <seidos> i could be wrong though
[22:45] <MarkDude> True. Still can be a bit much learning words- as opposed to process
[22:45] <seidos> perhaps Pa or Fa is just as paternal as Da is
[22:46] <seidos> example?
[22:47] <seidos> this is odd:  http://i.imgur.com/zY47I.jpg
[22:48] <MarkDude> That is way cool- I want to do that now
[22:48] <seidos> somebody posted it on crashspace's mailing list
[22:48]  * MarkDude is learning new words now. Practicing Spanish with friend. I figure I might as well go all out
[22:49] <MarkDude> It is creative
[22:49] <MarkDude> I want to see the pics they got.
[22:49] <seidos> that's cool, i had a video of RMS speaking spanish
[22:49] <seidos> maybe someone will post it online :P
[22:50] <seidos> maybe that's what http://ideaboner.tumblr.com is about
[22:53] <MarkDude> You need to give a nsfw warning on that stuff dude- some folks are delicate
[22:53] <MarkDude> :)
[22:53] <seidos> yeah, i thought about that after the fact
[22:53] <seidos> probably shouldn't have posted it here
[22:55] <MarkDude> Dont want anyone getting in trouble
[22:55] <MarkDude> Did you see the pics of the new hummingbird I posted on fb?
[22:56] <seidos> nah
[23:01] <MarkDude> Good stuff- a few new panoramas also
[23:02] <seidos> i like hummingbirds
[23:02] <seidos> i wonder where they go when they die
[23:04] <MarkDude> I think I saw one die once- it was sad. It just sorta spiraled down, and landed in rain gutter
[23:04] <MarkDude> I had a family emergency - right at that moment
[23:05] <MarkDude> was weird- did not go back to check on it- I felt bad
[23:08] <seidos> it's funny, death may be more mysterious than we think, but we wouldn't know if such mysterious dyings were rare
[23:12] <MarkDude> Well it is all around us- there are plenty of plants and critters that live a year or less
[23:14] <MarkDude> some much less
[23:17] <seidos> there was a mouse that died when i lived in long beach.  it died in front of my neighbor's kid, she was going to keep it as a pet, but it died on her for seemingly no reason
[23:17] <seidos> an ant died the other day when i put it inside some ranch dressing.  apparently it couldn't tread ranch, tried to save it, but couldn't
[23:18] <seidos> this happened with a gnat that landed on me once, but it was peanut butter that time
[23:18] <seidos> the last 2 aren't that mysterious, really :|
[23:20] <MarkDude> Well the dressing thing- I understand
[23:22] <seidos> i was actually surprised, i've seen ants go through more than that
[23:22] <seidos> they can tread water pretty good
[23:23] <seidos> well, the ant was crawling on me, so the dressing was my attempt at feeding it, which failed
[23:23] <seidos> 2nd time
[23:24] <nhaines> Ants don't tread water.  They walk across the surface because they don't break the surface tension.
[23:25] <MarkDude> Yep- i rescue them from the pool every so often
[23:26] <seidos> i should've used the head of a pin to dish out the dressing
[23:39] <MarkDude> Sometimes it is not meant to be
[23:41] <seidos> after reading Chuck Lorre's snippet at the end of Big Bang Theory, i thought for a 2nd that he an Charlie Sheen might be the same person