[08:16] hello anyone [09:52] hy [12:20] hello [12:23] have you guy been thinking of adding conky to the distro as an default feature? [12:24] Mandrew, as a default feature... probably not going to happen [12:24] ok [12:24] isn't it in the repositories anyway? [12:24] why not switch to unity then? [12:24] uhh? [12:25] knome, it is indeed [12:25] ah, sorry, I was thinking of docky :-/ [12:25] * micahg hasn't really slept in ~21 hours [12:26] docky is not in ubuntu/ unity by default ;) [12:26] Mandrew: right, but it's a similar idea to unity, nevermind my comment :) [12:26] Mandrew, lol :)) [12:26] err, micahg [12:27] * knome went to bed at 6am as well, and only slept 6 hours [12:27] micahg, docky i can understand, but unity is totally different [12:27] we're not going for docky nor unity [12:27] ;) [12:27] well that is a relief ;) [12:28] i actually think there is some kind of special joke style in the FOSS world, which you need to identify ;) [12:28] your thinking of unity and gnome-shell ;) [12:29] think that the joke is on me now :D [15:08] desktop cd's are bad today [15:08] alternate should install, though [15:09] I will be running installs this afternoon, got to work on the grass while it is cool (early morning) [16:31] Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel at 19:00 UTC today. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings [16:41] uh, that's already pretty soon [16:41] charlie-tca: how do you feel about the scrollbars now? [18:10] charlie-tca: You going with 64bit alt? I might be able to do 32bit alt. I also can't make the meeting again :( [18:20] Unit193: yes, I will do 64bit [18:20] ochosi: I like them [18:20] ok nice :) [18:20] Meeting in about 1.5 hours [18:20] I can't really see the arrows, though [18:20] that's the idea [18:21] since we liked arrow-less scrollbars, i just made them very small and almost invisible [18:21] (at least ff and ooffice don't break like this9 [18:23] :D [18:23] that was my idea :D [18:23] and i've updated murrine on my 10.04 and im using this last theme, i like it [18:24] the arrows aren't "that" invisible, if you lurk for them you can see them, also they are bigger on ff [18:24] yeah, i know, nothing i can do about ff [18:24] Yup, I agree, being as close to invisible as possible without removing them is good [18:25] GridCube: depends on eyesight, too [18:25] On my 22 inch monitor, they are like dots of dirt on the monitor [18:26] XD on my 17" monitor they are pretty notisable [18:26] yeah, i agree that they look a bit "dirty", but after using them for a while i started to like those dots [18:26] GridCube: screenshot? [18:26] mmm im on windows now :( [18:27] awwwh :) [18:28] GridCube: you are young, too! [18:28] bad eyesight makes it harder to see "tiny" [18:28] XD i use glasses 24/7 [18:30] me too, that's not an argument ;) [18:32] well i actually need them to see far away, not for close viewing :P [18:34] I could use (but don't NEED) glasses, but I don't have any === GridCube changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Want to get involved? See: http://xubuntu.org/contribute | #xubuntu for support, #xubuntu-offtopic for general discussion | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu [18:37] ochosi, http://imagebin.org/160240 [18:38] I don't even remember what the topic was... [18:39] why is GridCube changing the topic? [18:40] charlie-tca, there is no +t in #xubuntu-devel [18:40] what? [18:40] what did i did? [18:40] GridCube: re:screenshot: ok, that's exactly how it looks for me as well, i guess that's ok [18:40] What does having a +t got to do with playing with the topic? [18:41] oh... i changed the topic... [18:41] charlie-tca, if we have +t, unopped users can't change the topic. that's what. [18:41] i'm not even op here... [18:41] They shouldn't be touching it anyway. Usually we just throw them out for that [18:41] but i did nothing [18:41] D: i just logged in [18:42] and, I did not ban you :) [18:42] charlie-tca, then add +t, so you don't need to try to remember what the old topic was [18:42] I can see it in weechat [18:42] It gives me both the old and the new topics [18:43] i have it logged for the last few weeks that i've logged this channel XD [18:43] That too [18:43] What was the old one? Are there any changes? [18:43] nope its the same [18:44] There were no changes made, no [18:44] thats really weird i dont see how i changed the topic [18:44] unless... can i try something? [18:44] Must be a keypress in the IRC client [18:44] go === GridCube changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Want to get involved? See: http://xubuntu.org/contribute | #xubuntu for support, #xubuntu-offtopic for general discussion | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule [18:45] Like I said, I see both [18:45] magic keys, huh? === GridCube changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Want to get involved? See: http://xubuntu.org/contribute | #xubuntu for support, #xubuntu-offtopic for general discussion | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu [18:45] no, apparently on xchat if you touch the topic on the top bar and press enter it changes the topic [18:45] again? [18:46] Really? [18:46] i added the stuff i removed on the previous edition [18:46] yes [18:46] weird [18:46] apparently i tabbed and hit return [18:46] All the months (over 24) I used Xchat, I never did that [18:47] you should add +t [18:47] charlie-tca: You might want to do the topic so it's not "Topic set by GridCube (~noneof@190.49.173.47) (Mon Jun 27 13:37:26 2011)" [18:47] I don't care who it is set by. That gives a record if something does change [18:48] I noticed it didn't have +t long time ago and kinda liked it in a way (And never touched it!) [18:48] It hasn't changed, but when you see the name is changed, you know to look at it [18:48] knome: you know how to set +t? [18:48] I never do all this stuff, and would have to research it [18:49] charlie-tca, yesm but i don't have operator privileges in #xubuntu-devel [18:49] you ain't? [18:49] nope [18:49] how do I do it then? [18:49] first get ops for yourself [18:49] I thought you were an operatior in all our channels [18:49] no, just #xubuntu [18:50] okay, got that far [18:51] then simply try /mode +t [18:51] okay [18:51] done [18:51] now you want to be an op in here? [18:51] no [18:51] /msg chanserv set #xubuntu-devel topiclock on Might work better... [18:51] okay :( [18:51] now only ops can change the topic [18:51] Unit193, that's different [18:52] charlie-tca, well, i can be, no problem in that ;) [18:52] charlie-tca, but as i said, now the +t mode is set [18:52] who are the ops in here? Where would I find the list? [18:53] knome: Bah... Wrong one... From what I know, it was best to set it with ChanServ... [18:53] charlie-tca, /msg chanserv access #xubuntu-devel list [18:54] hm, I would like to see j1mc and crimsun removed and you added, I think [18:55] cody-somerville: you around today? [18:56] charlie-tca, as far as i understand it, you have all the access rights [18:56] oh [18:57] I will go find how to do this, then. [18:59] charlie-tca: /msg chanserv help flags ? [18:59] :) gotta go, sources of information test today, gotta study :D good luck to you all and have a nice community meeting [19:06] knome: done [19:06] Thanks for your help [19:06] knome: you are now an op in here [19:07] I didn't make you one in #xubuntu-offtopic, though [19:07] So we can't make fun of him anymore... [19:07] charlie-tca, thanks [19:07] Unit193: :D [19:11] knome really does know more about ops and IRC than I do [19:44] Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 15 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings [19:49] Okay, so I heard that the ubuntustudio people are going to move to an xfce-based desktop around 12.04 or so, so I may as well just idle and absorb information by osmosis. [19:50] orngjce223: hey :) [19:50] Hehe [19:50] yeah... im exited about the move [19:51] Excited? :v If you were exited you'd stop using it [19:51] and watching the xubuntu team in action is quite inspiring [19:51] Mmmm. [19:51] So yeah, just going to idle [20:01] * charlie-tca waves [20:02] ugh [20:03] * micahg waves in a daze [20:03] o hai [20:03] heh, don't try a new vertical mouse without a lot of time [20:04] So, let's have a meeting [20:04] o/ [20:04] #STARTMEETING [20:04] The full agenda for the meeting is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meeting [20:05] Today's agenda: [20:05] * Old business [20:05] * Charlie to dig for the xscreensaver updates, and put in an SRU [20:05] * Team updates - Team Leads [20:05] * Packaging & Development [20:05] * Bug Triage & Testing [20:05] * Website & Marketing [20:05] * Artwork [20:05] * Documentation [20:05] * Announcements [20:05] * TeamReports need to be updated [20:05] * Governance structure - all [20:05] * Any Other Business - all/anyone [20:05] So, I have not dug up the xscreensaver stuff, so let's go to team updates [20:06] TOPIC - Packaging & Development [20:06] mr_pouit, micahg : go ahead, please [20:06] the usual round of merges/syncs from Debian (almost finished, should be ok at the end of this week) [20:07] I don't think we changed anything in the default package set last week [20:07] Have we added pastebinit? [20:07] (might be worth to put file-roller back, now that it won't pull in nautilus anymore) [20:07] eh, sorry, I forgot [20:07] fileroller +1 [20:08] +1 fileroller and pastebinit [20:08] wow, xarchiver is really that bad? [20:08] =) [20:08] heh [20:09] micahg hasn't had the pleasure of fighting with xarchiver yet [20:09] I hope to take a look at the seeds after the platform rally to see if we can get the size down [20:09] size down would be good, too [20:09] The 64bit alternate install image grew last night [20:10] live desktop is still broken, raised in the release team meeting [20:11] mr_pouit: any thoughts on 10.04.3? Do we want to push it or just stay where we are [20:11] The only thing I see it might do is help with the logout instead of shutdown bug [20:11] mmh, we don't have any update at all in it [20:12] nope, just a newer Firefox and THunderbird (point releases) [20:12] yeah, but this fix includes a regression, so it's not really suitable [20:12] Then I won't push that one. We can work on Oneiric instead [20:12] Any questions for development and packaging? [20:13] TOPIC - Bug Triage & Testing [20:14] We are triaging a few bugs, mostly hitting the oneiric ones. [20:14] mr_pouit seems to be doing more bugs than I am again. [20:14] Testing is going great! Of course, we lost a couple of volunteers as soon as we said we need them to test. [20:15] We are running tests almost daily, alternating partition methods and install methods to cover everything [20:15] any questions? [20:16] TOPIC - Website & Marketing [20:16] knome, pleia2 : your turn [20:17] over the weekend I sent a mail to -devel asking for some review of the website content [20:18] Yeah! [20:18] We are gaining [20:18] We do need some marketing help still. As Ubuntu builds Unity, we are picking up a lot of users [20:18] I've completed a basic review, but if others with expertise in the other areas could make sure the information is accurate linked from http://xubuntu.org/contribute it would be great [20:19] should check that later that week [20:19] I haven't gotten the page up for displaying our logos for people to use in marketing, I'll add that to my todo list now [20:19] knome: any updates on our wp theme? [20:20] no, not right now [20:20] but the picslider is a wordpress plugin now [20:20] you can see it in action in http://shimmerproject.org/project/albatross/ [20:21] (you can even ry to navigate the images) [20:21] *try [20:21] knome: is the plugin hosted online somewhere? [20:21] we can submit it for review by canonical if it's ready while we finish the rest of the theme [20:21] pleia2, not yet, i'm still doing a few modifications to it [20:21] actually, i'm working with it right now [20:22] ok :) [20:22] charlie-tca: I think that's all we've got [20:22] Okay, everybody please review the website for content [20:22] Let's stay on top of this website change, too. The sooner we get things in for approval, the sooner we get operational [20:22] Any questions for website? [20:23] TOPIC - Artwork [20:23] ochosi: you get to be here today? [20:23] yep [20:23] so, basically the "big news" is that i think we settled on a new scrollbar style [20:24] at least for now [20:24] we went through several iterations [20:24] and i fixed it insofar that firefox and libreoffice work with it now [20:24] we dropped the scrollbar-arrows (at least visually) [20:25] other than that, not many changes to be honest, mainly cleaning up behind the changes we did during the last few weeks [20:25] feedback has been ok so far, but there could be more [20:25] so feel free to test [20:26] Feedback seems to be directly to connected to what is hated most? [20:26] hm, up to now it was mainly feedback about the scrollbar [20:26] but actually i think it has become positive (from sceptic in the beginning) [20:26] Please, if you can test the new theme, do so. It is fully testable in Natty, right? [20:26] yep [20:27] You don't even have to install oneiric yet, so let's get some feedback on this new scrollbar. [20:27] Any questions ? [20:28] hope i dont intrude. but if you drop me a link to the new theme im glad to be testing it [20:28] Mandrew: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird [20:29] anyone else? [20:29] Mandrew: thanks for testing the theme. [20:29] no thank you ;) [20:29] TOPIC - Documentation [20:29] This is one of the areas that appears the weakest for us. [20:29] We had a person in that was looking into the wiki, is he here? [20:31] well, okay then [20:31] TOPIC - Announcements [20:31] That favorite subject is back again... Team Reports are due for June [20:32] These can be updated by anyone, not just a select few. [20:32] Just go to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports [20:32] click on the edit link for this month, and add your updates. [20:32] We do a lot of work in Xubuntu, and this is how we get credit for it and track a lot of it. [20:33] Important dates coming rapidly: [20:33] Debian Import Freeze: June 30 [20:33] 10.04.3 Freeze: June 30 [20:33] Oneiric Alpha 2: July 7 [20:34] We will need a new release for alpha2, and it should give the changes to default apps if we can. [20:34] We can include the most critical bugs from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Bugs/OneiricOcelot [20:36] We are trying to track things for the release notes at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/OneiricOcelot/AlphaNotes [20:36] Any questions? [20:37] TOPIC - Any Other Business [20:38] Anything else we need to discuss? Anything we missed? [20:38] oh, yes [20:38] I missed a lot, I suppose. [20:38] knome is now an IRC op in #xubuntu-devel [20:39] jarnos: yes, we are almost finished, but there will be minutes posted to the wiki and ML's [20:39] Did you chat about themes/style [20:40] A little, yes. Did you have something specific in mind? [20:40] Well, I have survived by one panel with many releases. [20:41] Even with small screen 1024x600. [20:41] and? [20:41] So, launchers only on the bottom panel make it much easier to remove? [20:42] Well, I think it would be worth thinking, if everything a default user needs can be in one panel. By the way, [20:43] In Natty there are many new panel elements. [20:43] i like the two panels that you guys have now:) [20:43] In natty, we switched to Xfce 4.8, and that affected most of the components [20:44] The panels were a complete re-write for Xfce, so it was a good opportunity to change them [20:44] Mandrew, sometimes the autoshown bottom panel can be on way, if you e.g. scroll. [20:44] Inicator plugin takes unneccessary lot panel space. [20:44] It has never gotten in my way, even scrolling. We do have full size scroll areas, which helps [20:45] What is in indicator panel that would not be on the panel in the notification area? [20:46] charlie-tca, if you are careful, you don't accidentally unhide the panel. [20:47] charlie-tca, well, I need currently only network manager, but it has volume control and that letter box and a lot of empty space in between. [20:48] but that is you, personally. [20:48] charlie-tca, volume control can be handled to some extent by conventional mixer in panel. [20:48] Most of the users really prefer the mixer, and having the chat application. [20:49] the mixer takes the same space, whether in notification area or indicator panel [20:49] it is just a speaker icon [20:49] charlie-tca, no, there is a lot of space between the icons in the indicator plugin. [20:50] Truth be told, looking at my 11.04 and 10.04 side by side at the same resolution, it took more space for network manager applet and mixer in 10.04 [20:51] indicator plugin does not offer configuration [20:51] charlie-tca, i think he says that there is a lot of space between the icons [20:51] We must always look at the overall user experience, not a single user. Every user is free to change the defaults [20:52] Mandrew: I know, but 10.04 without indicator panel used more space than indicators do [20:52] i like that it makes it airy so to say [20:52] You can remove indicator plugin and use the notification area instead. [20:53] charlie-tca, when I removed the indicator plugin, I didn't get network manager in the notification area. [20:54] I think you are correct. Ubuntu has tied network manager to indicators. [20:54] And they may even tie more to them. We are not going to rebuild every app to undo what they do. [20:55] Again, as a individual, you are allowed to make changes that fit your work style. [20:56] By the way, wouldn't Switch user be a nice default item in panel? Without it you can switch, it you lock screen and make a new login, though. [20:56] I wonder why it is not in the session menu. [20:56] Won't that take even more room in the panel? [20:58] ochosi: what do you think of adding the user switcher plugin to the panel by default? [20:58] No, if it is in Session Menu, which itself may take a lot of space depending on your user name. [20:59] Not sure we can add to the session menu, anyone know the answer? [21:00] Is there any sense of keeping both Session Menu and Log Out Dialog? [21:01] huh? [21:01] I'm now here and read up :/ [21:01] by default you don't have both [21:01] If I remember right, Ubuntu had switch user in it before. [21:02] Default is now session menu. If you have both, you probably should delete the old ~/.config and ~/.cache and rebuild things [21:02] Ubuntu doesn't use the xfce session menu, it uses gnome stuff, which is different [21:03] So, not having an answer, and having taken the allotted hour for this now, we could pursue this better on the Mailing List [21:03] I want to thank everyone for participating in the weekly meeting. Your participation is important to us! [21:03] i can logout under my name in the right corner and in the bottom of my "start menu", and i have a fresh install [21:03] The next meeting will be Sunday, July 3rd, at 22:00 UTC. [21:03] Let's go update Team Reports! [21:04] Mandrew: that's different [21:04] ok [21:04] log out dialog is a quit button [21:04] which the session menu replaced [21:04] You can see the log out dialogs by using right-click on the panel, panel, logout [21:05] which is a builtin for Xfce [21:05] ok cool [21:07] ENDMEETING [21:11] Now, I need help... [21:11] Anyone know how to make the Evoluent Vertical Mouse work with a ps/2 adapter? [21:19] i would have a look in #ubuntu cuz its really alot of ppl there, but dont say your running xubuntu it might get nasty :( [21:20] I never go in there [21:21] I can always a third keyboard to my desk, so I can bypass the kvm swithc [21:21] s/swithc/switch [21:21] ok [21:22] charlie-tca, what is the tips and tricks part in this menu? http://img7.imagebanana.com/img/fi6np6l7/1_007.png [21:23] It's a tip that appears every time you login. They change each time, going through them at random [21:23] They are tips for Xfce [21:24] ok cool i might just add that to the start then [21:24] Most of them are valid for us, but there will be a couple that don't apply [21:24] ok [21:24] yeah, it is just one more thing to close though [21:24] could be useful as a new user of xfce ;) [21:25] ill try it and if i get enough its just to remove it [21:26] i posted you question in ubuntu but there is no reply, so i guess no one in there right now knows [21:29] Thanks [21:29] np ;) [21:30] I guess I can make the server headless, too. Then I won't need the third keyboard [22:59] charlie-tca: i've never used the user-switcher before tbh [22:59] i'll install it and have a look [23:04] charlie-tca: there are a few problems with that as far as i can see. the main problem is that it's an indicator, not a panel-plugin, which means we can't freely place it where we want (meaning that item will land anywhere among the other indicators installed) [23:11] I'm still in lucid and the panel-plugin user-switcher is in the package "xfswitch-plugin" [23:11] Not sure if it still exists in newer versions but it's there [23:11] oh right [23:11] thanks orngjce223, i'll try that one as well [23:12] but anyway, it sounded a bit like they wanted indicator-session, because it includes user-switching and stuff from the session-menu [23:12] ...Not that it works on my system [23:13] what doesn't work? [23:13] user switching [23:13] oh [23:13] But that's why I'm going to install natty, fresh, on another partition [23:13] just tested it, works for me [23:13] see if the bug's still there [23:13] Meh [23:13] :) [23:13] but anyway, it's a rather fugly plugin if you ask me [23:13] only a button with an icon and no options at all [23:13] Could be specific to "hi I have a lowlatency kernel and a bunch of really contrived audio settings" [23:14] I dunno [23:14] hm, prolly, dunno [23:14] If I had to put money on it I'd say more likely to be the audio fault [23:14] i think having the user-switching as an item in the session-menu plugin would make more sense than this tiny launcher [23:14] the lowlatency kernel does nothing interesting by itself honestly, only when it's called by a program that's aware [23:14] But yeah [23:14] Meh [23:26] ochosi: thanks for looking at it [23:26] no problem [23:26] i think that the user-switching should either go in the session menu or not into the panel, at least wrt how things are atm [23:26] yup, jarnos wanted it in session menu, but I don't think we can tell it where to go in those terms [23:27] well, we can file a feature request [23:27] it's not a bad idea [23:27] I have told it a couple of times "where to go", but never there [23:27] same goes for locking the screen [23:27] Well, personally, I think if people want all the pretties and functions of Ubuntu, they should have installed Ubuntu [23:28] that's true in a wa [23:28] y [23:28] though i think as long as a request is meaningful i wouldn't drop it just because ubuntu has it [23:29] No, but I get tired of hearing "Ubuntu does it" [23:29] sure