[08:07] <fta2> unity 3d doesn't start this morning after an upgrade.. fallbacks to a half backed -2d
[08:07] <fta2> unity_support_test shows a "BadWindow (invalid Window parameter)"
[11:32] <desktop2> hi
[11:33] <desktop2> anyone there
[11:33] <desktop2> hi
[11:33] <desktop2> hi
[14:47] <micahg> pitti: re firefox-locale and breaks, it's not so simple, wouldn't it be possible to then remove firefox from the system on partial upgrades?
[14:48] <micahg> normally you'd have a depends and a breaks, do we still need the langpack to pull in the firefox locale in oneiric?
[14:50] <pitti> micahg: right, you'd need to upgrade it or remove it; I thought that's what you want?
[14:50] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ^
[14:51] <pitti> micahg: yes, I think we need langpack depends: ffox-locale-XX, as otherwise nothing will pull in f-locale-X on upgrade
[14:51] <micahg> pitti: does language-selector not do any magic on upgrade?
[14:52] <pitti> no, l-s is not involved in the upgrade process
[14:52] <micahg> how do people get other language dependencies on upgrades?
[14:55] <pitti> they don't really
[14:55] <micahg> ok
[14:55] <pitti> only on fresh installs
[14:56] <pitti> or when they run language-selector
[14:56] <micahg> pitti: yeah, so I don't think breaks like that is going to work
[14:56] <pitti> micahg: once we fix bug 396414, this will get eaier
[14:56] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 396414 in language-selector "When KDE or gnome apps get installed, the corresponding language-packs should be pulled automatically" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/396414
[14:56] <pitti> easier
[14:56] <micahg> so, I'm just going to remove the depends on firefox unless we have a better solution before alpha2
[14:56] <pitti> that seems fine
[14:57] <pitti> I don't think it breaks anything to have firefox 4 and ffox-locale-XX installed
[14:57] <micahg> worst case as far is firefox concerned is the langpack will be disabled until they upgrade to the proper version
[14:57] <micahg> pitti: right
[14:57] <pitti> but that's the kind of stuff you get with a partial upgrade
[14:57] <micahg> I think that's better than removing firefox out from under the user
[14:58] <pitti> fully agree; chrisccoulson didn't seem to like that
[14:58] <micahg> pitti: which piece didn't he like?
[14:58] <pitti> I'm not sure
[14:58] <pitti> probably being able to install ffox-locale with ffox 4?
[14:59] <micahg> yeah, not ideal since the user will lose the translations until they upgrade, but I think that's the lesser of the two evils
[14:59] <chrisccoulson> the issue with having incompatible versions installed is that we have users who keep installing the addon compatibility reporter, and that disables the compat check on language packs
[14:59] <chrisccoulson> so the old langpacks load and completely break the interface
[14:59] <micahg> chrisccoulson: right, but the alternative is the possibility of uninstalling firefox in a partial upgrade
[15:00] <micahg> and if people install 3rd party addons, all bets are off in any event
[15:00] <micahg> (at least to the extent we can't be responsible)
[15:00] <chrisccoulson> right, but that doesn't mean we can't ignore it
[15:00] <chrisccoulson> we get quite a few bug reports with this issue in every upgrade now
[15:01] <chrisccoulson> oops
[15:01] <chrisccoulson> doesn't mean we *can* ignore it ;)
[15:03] <micahg> well, the alternative is that the recommended locale binary won't get installed
[15:04] <micahg> for users w/out other depends on firefox, on installs without a depends on firefox, firefox would probably get removed
[15:04] <pitti> chrisccoulson: lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.oneiric
[15:05] <pitti> chrisccoulson: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeedManagement
[15:27] <pitti> seb128: apport by default for a2?
[15:44] <pitti> cyphermox: echo 3 | sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
[16:29] <mterry> pitti, bug 803519
[16:29] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 803519 in xdg-user-dirs "Use Unity as a registered XDG environment" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/803519
[17:25] <fta> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/language-pack-gnome-fr_1%3a11.10+20110630_all.deb (--unpack):
[17:25] <fta>  trying to overwrite '/usr/share/locale-langpack/fr/LC_MESSAGES/indicator-sound.mo', which is also in package language-pack-fr 1:11.10+20110630
[17:25] <fta> pitti, ^^
[17:36] <seb128> GunnarHj, hi
[17:37] <seb128> fta, can you open a bug against langpackomatic?
[17:39] <seb128> GunnarHj, what is the usecase you have a language selection on the logic screen?
[17:40] <desrt> seb128: german hard logic vs. french fuzzy logic
[18:04] <GunnarHj> seb128: I suppose it basically is people who want to be able to use more than one language, and if they know which language at login, they don't need to log out + log in after having set it in l-s.
[18:04] <GunnarHj> But I'd like to see this detail in a wider perspective. For many non-English users this detail is important. The desired growth in Ubuntu users (-> 200 miljon) probably means that a higher percentage - compared with today - will consider a language-chooser a useful tool.
[18:04] <GunnarHj> As regards old Ubuntu users, they are used to the language chooser. Consequently, dropping the language chooser in LightDM would be considered a regression due to the change of default display manager.
[18:05] <seb128> GunnarHj, well, I'm a non native english user
[18:05] <seb128> but I don't see the point of changing languages often, I usually just use my native language
[18:08] <GunnarHj> seb128: I don't change often either, but people behave differently. And in any case it sends a signal that we care about non-English users.
[18:08] <GunnarHj> Would it do any harm to keep providing the feature?
[18:09] <seb128> we do care about them but the recommended way would be to change from the language selector
[18:10] <GunnarHj> seb128: Sure, l-s is the principal tool for setting languages and locales. The current language chooser on the login screen is a supplement.
[18:10] <seb128> well, it can be discussed, but it would be nice ot understand the usecase for switching locale often
[18:10] <seb128> if there is a real world usecase out of "translators doing testing" it could for sure be there
[18:11] <seb128> there is just no point to clutter the ui for an option that 99% of users don't use
[18:11] <afv> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/language-pack-gnome-en_1%3a11.10+20110630_all.deb (--unpack):
[18:11] <afv> trying to overwrite '/usr/share/locale-langpack/en_GB/LC_MESSAGES/indicator-sound.mo', which is also in package language-pack-en 1:11.10+20110630
[18:11] <seb128> afv, known issue
[18:12] <afv> ok ;)
[18:13] <GunnarHj> seb128: It has been there for a long time. Has anybody complained? Btw, talking about often... How often does the average user switch session type?
[18:13] <seb128> yeah, maybe it should not be there as well
[18:13] <seb128> not sure if the new greater design have it
[18:14] <seb128> ok, got to go but please start the discussion on the list
[18:14] <seb128> it's not because we are used to a workflow that it's the best one ;-)
[18:14] <seb128> but that need some discussion and thinking
[18:14] <afv> hmm, by the way i noticed that the latest gdm3 doesn't have the language chooser too (or i didn't see it)
[18:14] <seb128> bbl
[18:14] <seb128> right, GNOME dropped that as well
[18:18] <afv> is anyone noticing this 1px menu with some themes? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/659315/screenshots/2011.07.01_menu_visible_2.png
[18:23] <afv> well, nevermind, just switched from Adwance to Radiance and it's fine
[18:51] <fta> afv, issue now known as bug 804449
[18:51] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 804449 in langpack-o-matic "overwrite file in other debs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804449
[18:57] <afv> thx
[20:44] <pitti> fta: thanks, I'm on it now
[20:44] <fta> pitti, \o/ (it's 804449 in case you missed it)