[16:29] <astraljava> Was there a meeting today?
[16:29] <astraljava> Ahh... nevermind, thought I'd hit the wiki instead. :D
[16:30] <astraljava> ...which seems dead for a change...
[16:31] <astraljava> So, 1700 UTC?
[16:34] <holstein> astraljava: yeah
[16:35] <holstein> an hour and a half away
[16:35] <holstein> *in theory
[16:35] <holstein> its a holiday weekend in the states
[16:38] <holstein> ScottL: are you around today for the meeting
[16:38] <holstein> ?
[16:42] <holstein> hey ailo_ :)
[16:53] <astraljava> holstein: Right, yeah everybody's out in Mexico getting robbed.
[16:54] <astraljava> And no, I don't mean everybody gets robbed while in Mexico. I am pointing to the headlines which said a drug cartel was specifically aiming for American tourists this weekend.
[18:15] <holstein> *due to the holidays, the ubuntustudio meeting scheduled for 15 minutes ago will be cancelled
[18:15] <holstein> we'll catch up next time :)
[18:22] <astraljava> Okay. :)
[18:33] <ailo_> postpone it a week?
[18:34] <holstein> ailo_: i was just about to talk with shnatsel about that
[18:34] <holstein> ailo_: we can
[18:34] <holstein> also, shnatsel posted https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2011-June/003391.html
[18:35] <holstein> shnatsel: COOL.. you're an elementaryOS dev?
[18:35] <shnatsel> holstein: yes
[18:36] <shnatsel> holstein: I'm one of the packagers, but my main role is maintaining the ISO and integrating our stuff into Ubuntu base
[18:37] <shnatsel> and lots of other miscellaneous work we all get now and then
[18:38] <shnatsel> I used to maintain a small artistic Ubuntu spin for 2 years, that's when I learned lots of things that led me to being elementary OS dev :)
[18:38] <holstein> shnatsel: glad you are here
[18:38] <holstein> we are actually focused quite heavily on audio
[18:39] <holstein> it would be great to have someone more aware of graphics
[18:39] <shnatsel> holstein: well, that might be me
[18:40] <shnatsel> Ubuntu seriously lacks painterly software
[18:40] <holstein> agreed
[18:40] <holstein> when i saw that post, i personally dont know enough about graphics to respond
[18:41] <holstein> and, when folks come in with new audio apps, i see they are usually directed to get them in upstream
[18:41] <holstein> however, it didnt look like those are totally differnt apps
[18:41] <holstein> so it might be something we can implement
[18:41] <holstein> shnatsel: how official is elemetaryOS ??
[18:42] <holstein> seems we are quite bound to the buntu base in a way that can actually keep us from implementing some features
[18:42] <shnatsel> holstein: absolutely official for our project, not related to canonical
[18:43] <shnatsel> holstein: these apps are not related to elementary OS anyway
[18:43] <holstein> i guess my gerneral concern is, if these are *not* in the repos
[18:43] <holstein> we really cant implement it
[18:44] <holstein> we needed a proper kernel for 11.04
[18:44] <holstein> it didnt get worked into the repos
[18:44] <holstein> so, we just dont have a proper kernel
[18:44] <holstein> for realtime audio
[18:44] <shnatsel> holstein: yeah, I know, trademark and such
[18:44] <shnatsel> holstein: no, they are not in the repos, some of them weren't even packaged. It would be nice if somebody pushed them there, though.
[18:45] <holstein> are these things you can push to debian?
[18:45] <shnatsel> I'm an absolute noob at all the paperwork related to it and I've never did it
[18:45] <holstein> im pretty sure that is the quickest way to get something in ubuntu
[18:45] <shnatsel> holstein: Debian seems to use systems so ancient that I couldn't even report a bug about it
[18:46] <shnatsel> I spent 15 minutes but then gave it up
[18:46] <holstein> shnatsel: we'll talk to ScottL about it more when he's around
[18:46] <shnatsel> holstein: thanks!
[18:46] <holstein> ScottL is the team lead
[18:47] <shnatsel> it obviously was not a problem to put all that in an unofficial spin
[18:48] <holstein> yeah... thats the issue though, we cant stray to far it seems
[18:48] <astraljava> shnatsel: If you could list them in wiki somewhere, we could start working on packaging them, and pushing to debian.
[18:49] <shnatsel> astraljava: they're already packaged
[18:49] <shnatsel> astraljava: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2011-June/003391.html
[18:50] <astraljava> shnatsel: Ahh... okay cool. Right, so all that's needed is to check they conform to debian policies, then file ITP and RFP bugs, and find sponsors for uploading.
[18:51] <shnatsel> astraljava: I really suck at paperwork
[18:51] <astraljava> shnatsel: Oh that's what you were referring to. :)
[18:51] <shnatsel> astraljava: would somebody else do it? Please?
[18:52] <astraljava> shnatsel: Sure. I'm in the middle of moving, so I don't have my testing env etc. with me at the moment. But if no-one else will, I'll do that in August.
[18:52] <shnatsel> astraljava: thanks!
[18:53] <shnatsel> hmm, in August you'll have to request an Ubuntu import for those packages, too...
[18:53] <astraljava> shnatsel: No prob. Thank _you_ for contributing! :)
[18:54] <astraljava> shnatsel: True, if you want them in for Oneiric, you might wanna find someone to do it faster than that.
[18:54] <holstein> astraljava: if you can point some things in my direction that i can handle, i'll do them
[18:56] <astraljava> holstein: Well, for myself to feel comfortable with uploading a package, I'd test it in a real debian environment. I'm not sure it's required, though. So just get it building against a debian sid chroot, and test that it installs there, that might suffice.
[18:57] <astraljava> s/uploading/asking someone to upload/
[18:57] <kubotu> astraljava meant: "holstein: Well, for myself to feel comfortable with asking someone to upload a package, I'd test it in a real debian environment. I'm not sure it's required, though. So just get it building against a debian sid chroot, and test that it installs there, that might suffice."
[18:57] <holstein> astraljava: yeah, i cant handle that though
[18:57] <holstein> not in a timely manner, thats for sure
[18:58] <astraljava> holstein: To cut some corners, I could do the chroot thingie faster, of course. Depends then on the sponsor whether or not [s]he will upload.
[18:58] <shnatsel> if there are issues with those packages and I'm not here, you can always find me at #elementary or at shnatsel@gmail.com (except August)
[18:58] <astraljava> To be honest, I don't really know whether they test their packages in a real system before uploading. :)
[18:59] <astraljava> Just I assume it would be a good thing to do.
[19:00] <astraljava> shnatsel: Gotcha, thanks!
[19:01] <shnatsel> astraljava: those packages are well-tested on Ubuntu systems already, I've shipped them with my spin and discovered several bugs related to installing on a blank system etc, so now it should work just perfectly fine
[19:02] <shnatsel> astraljava: got your heads-up :)
[19:03] <astraljava> shnatsel: Good. :)
[19:03] <shnatsel> Also, I hear you're moving to XFCE base, why?
[19:03] <astraljava> shnatsel: So that gives me confidence in getting them somewhere where the devs can upload.
[19:04] <astraljava> shnatsel: Because the team felt that GNOME3 doesn't suit our workflow, and GNOME2 is going away for Oneiric.
[19:04] <astraljava> XFCE was the closest.
[19:06] <shnatsel> in elementary we considered using XFCE as base, we ended up having both GNOME daemons and XFCE daemons if we use some real-life apps, and some GNOME systems are greatly superior to XFCE equivalents, e.g. dconf/GSettings is far superior to xfconf
[19:11] <shnatsel> But, I haven't seen your apps and workflow, XFCE might suit you better indeed
[19:16] <shnatsel> Ok, gotta go hack something :)
[19:16] <shnatsel> Good luck and have fun