TheMusorobert_ancell: Do you have patch pilot duties this week? If so, what day?04:26
robert_ancellTheMuso, thursday04:47
TheMusorobert_ancell: Ok. Do you mind at all if we swap? I have to duck out for most of Friday, and am not sure if I'll get around to doing my shift/have enough time for my shift.04:48
robert_ancellTheMuso, sure04:48
TheMusoI'll contact Daniel about the swap/updating calendars etc.04:48
micahgTheMuso: in the past, he's told me to just update it myself04:57
micahgrobert_ancell: I really like that lightdm restarts now when X falls out from under it04:57
TheMusomicahg: Um right, if I knew where it lived, I would *attempt* to, but google calendar + web and screen reader == fail.04:57
robert_ancellmicahg, it is a bit nicer during failures!04:57
micahgnow if I could just get X to stop disappearing :)04:58
micahgand I noticed the guest account as well04:58
chrisccoulsongood morning everyone07:34
didrocksgood morning07:54
TheMusoMorning didrocks.07:55
didrockshey TheMuso, how was your flight?07:55
TheMusodidrocks: Long, but uneventful, still feeling somewhat jetlagged.07:55
didrocksyeah, will surely take some days :)07:56
didrocksseif: hey, when you get some time, can we talk about zg and first system launch? (initial indexing of existing files)08:52
seifdidrocks, yes please08:53
seifdidrocks, can u join us on #zeitgeist for that08:53
seifwe have more ppl here08:53
didrocksseif: sure08:53
fta2Title: gnome-settings-daemon assert failure: gnome-settings-daemon: ../../src/xcb_io.c:515: _XReply: Assertion `!dpy->xcb->reply_data' failed.09:01
fta2hm, there's already bug 804617 for that09:03
ubot2Launchpad bug 804617 in gnome-settings-daemon "gnome-settings-daemon assert failure: gnome-settings-daemon: ../../src/xcb_io.c:515: _XReply: La declaración `!dpy->xcb->reply_data' no se cumple." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80461709:03
jibelpitti, good morning, could you look at bug 781076 ? it regularly breaks upgrades from N to O.09:03
ubot2Launchpad bug 781076 in doc-base "package doc-base 0.9.5ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: Byte order is not compatible at ../../lib/Storable.pm" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/78107609:03
didrockssalut seb12809:14
seb128lut didrocks09:14
didrocksbien rentré?09:15
jibeldidrocks, is there a way to temporarily disable the new modal dialogs in unity in order to compare with the standard behavior of the dialog ?09:17
didrocksjibel: you have to manually edit the light themes, smspillaz told me it was 2 properties to change09:17
seb128didrocks, oui, et toi ?09:18
didrocksjibel: let me checkout the recent changes09:18
didrocksseb128: ça va ;)09:18
seb128jibel, hey, bien rentré ? back on assigning us bugs? :-p09:22
didrocksjibel: apply the reverse diff (http://paste.ubuntu.com/637817/) on /usr/share/themes/Ambiance/metacity-1/metacity-theme-1.xml09:22
jibelseb128, oui bien rentré, à part les trains bondé par tous ces gens qui partent en vacances.09:27
jibeldidrocks, oh man, so easy, I'll switch to a gnome session then.09:28
didrocksjibel: heh :)09:28
didrocksreboot, brb09:30
chrisccoulsonback in a comfortable chair again this morning :-)09:32
chrisccoulsongood morning seb12809:34
chrisccoulsonhow are you?09:34
seb128hey chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks09:35
seb128chrisccoulson, what about you?09:35
seb128had a nice flight back and w.e?09:35
chrisccoulsonseb128, yeah, not too bad thanks. although, my 40 minute flight back to birmingham got delayed by 1 hour, which was really annoying ;)09:35
chrisccoulsoni had to play another hour of angry birds at the airport09:36
seb128well at least you didn't have to wait 4 hours in amsterdam :p09:36
chrisccoulsonyeah, that would be unfortunate ;)09:36
chrisccoulsoni'm starting to think it would have been quicker for me to catch the ferry09:36
seb128I use the lounge card but they only had the free airport wifi limited to 1 hour09:37
=== Tm_K is now known as Tm_T
didrocksseb128: btw, sni-qt as been sourced NEWed by steve, if you can binNEWed, that would be awesome : )09:46
seb128didrocks, ok09:47
seb128didrocks, done09:48
didrocksseb128: excellent, the MIR is ready, just waiting for mterry now to seed it :)09:48
seb128RAOF, hey09:50
njpatelawesome, evolution upgrade on desktop broke the filtering across all my folders09:57
njpatelwhich means....thunderbird time!09:57
* njpatel needed the slightest of excuse really09:57
seb128yeah, I hate evo as well this week09:58
seb128the 3.0 to 3.1 update forgot all my ui settings09:58
seb128like the columns position, sorting etc09:58
* didrocks will do the migration today as well09:58
seb128in all my boxes09:58
seb128the age of thunderbird is starting!09:59
seb128chrisccoulson, be ready to get bugs and complains coming your way ;-)09:59
chrisccoulsonheh :-)09:59
chrisccoulsoni should have taken some vacation this week....09:59
njpatelseb128, yep, that's what annoyed me....also I can't figure out a way to make all the folders behave like the one I configured, I really liked that feature in t-bird09:59
* didrocks opens a bug "it doesn't look like evolution" :)09:59
seb128speaking of which you just won a bug that jibel assigned to the team09:59
seb128njpatel, right, have to do the same columns configuration in 25 boxes sucks10:00
seb128didrocks, bug #805036 seems to be one about the nvidia issue10:01
ubot2Launchpad bug 805036 in unity "Can not choose classic unity instead of unity-2d" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80503610:01
seb128RAOF, just for the backlog nvidia binary drivers broke for people upgrading (including dx) to the new mesa it seems10:01
seb128RAOF, disabling and re-enabling nvidia in jockey "fixes" it though10:02
didrocksseb128: yeah, I'll retarget subcribe ubuntu-x to it as I don't know where the issue is from10:02
seb128so it might be a tseliot pitti issue10:02
fta2seb128, hi, found another weird new behavior of evo3, when viewing new emails, the selection moves from the main pane to the preview pane. is that a feature or a bug?10:05
seb128fta2, bug I would say10:06
fta2seb128, good, because it's annoying ;)10:06
seb128though I'm not upstream so who knows what reason they could have found to justify it ;-)10:06
seb128but seems a bug10:06
didrockschrisccoulson: is there any email account setup upgrade path?10:07
chrisccoulsondidrocks, what are you upgrading from?10:08
didrockschrisccoulson: our previous default, evolution :)10:08
chrisccoulsonah :)10:08
chrisccoulsonnot sure about that. RAOF mentioned that at the rally as well10:08
chrisccoulsoni wonder how hard it would be for me to make it import stuff from evo?10:08
didrocksthat would be nice anyway, we tend to update user's settings10:09
seb128didrocks, well, when we migrate them, which we will not do with tb10:11
seb128but yeah, would be still nice to have the feature for those switching10:11
didrocksseb128: it was some kind of requirement for banshee AFAIK, so yeah, would be nice to have the same with th10:11
seb128not sure we migrated the config10:12
seb128we migrating the datas10:12
seb128i.e ratings, etc10:12
seb128I don't think we migrated i.e jamendo accounts configured10:12
didrocksconfig are playlist, where the music is, and such$10:12
didrocksfrom my point of view, for a music player :)10:12
seb128hey rodrigo_, how are you?10:13
didrockshey rodrigo_10:13
rodrigo_hi seb128, didrocks10:13
chrisccoulsonin this case, we would probably only really want to migrate account settings and filters from evolution (assuming that most people are running IMAP, then there's not much point in migrating mail too)10:13
seb128nice advantage of using e-d-s you should have access to the contacts, etc10:16
didrocksreboot, brb10:25
kiwinotesorry, focus issue..10:28
Sweetsharkoh btw: morning everyone.10:29
seb128hey Sweetshark10:29
rodrigo_hi Sweetshark10:30
* Sweetshark just found the login to the trusty machine running this IRC session that I almost completely ignored over the last week.10:32
=== htorque_ is now known as htorque
ricotzSweetshark, hello :), are there going to be libreoffice 3.3.3 or 3.4.1 updates for lucid too?10:35
Sweetsharkricotz: 3.4.X for oneiric and 3.3.3 for natty has precedence. Why are you asking?10:37
ricotzSweetshark, i am curious about the libreoffice ppa and i would be great to see an update for lucid there10:38
ricotzi saw the natty upload and hoped there are going to be more ;)10:38
rodrigo_just in case someone was planning to do it -> I'm starting to package gnome-online-accounts10:39
Sweetsharkricotz: well, a lucid release for 3.3.3 isnt that hard now that there is one for natty, but it is still not high priority. 3.4.0 is a bit different10:42
seb128rodrigo_, write it on the etherpad ;-)10:43
rodrigo_seb128, right :)10:43
ricotzSweetshark, alright, looking forward to it then :)10:44
didrocksseb128: do you ship on purpose /usr/lib/libgtk-3.la ? (there was no gtk2 one)11:02
seb128didrocks, there is /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libgtk-x11-2.0.la11:06
didrocksah, only gtk2 is ported to the multi-arch, I got puzzle by that11:07
didrocksseems like cassidy don't like it ;)11:07
seb128what? the .la?11:07
didrockscassidy: ^^11:07
cassidyseb128, I hate .la, they are a pain when using jhbuild as libs/apps tends to link on system lib rather than the jhbuild ones11:08
seb128cassidy, somebody should fix libtool ;-)11:09
cassidyisn't ubuntu supposed to get rid of .la files ?11:09
seb128it's not that easy11:10
seb128you need to rebuild all rdepends in order before dropping a .la11:10
seb128which for gtk would be "fun"11:10
seb128so I don't think those are going away any time soon11:10
Laneydebian is doing it11:16
seb128Laney, doing what?11:17
Laneyremoving .la files11:18
Laneyat least I've had some NMUs for that11:18
seb128Laney, right, but as said you need to rebuild all the rdepends in order when you do that11:18
seb128which is going to take a while for gtk11:18
LaneyI understand. Just saying that it is being worked on11:19
Laneyhttp://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseGoals/LAFileRemoval fwiw11:21
fta2kaboom, g-s-d crashed11:36
jibelfta, not a big challenge ;-)11:37
ogra_and i thought it was arm specific :)11:39
seb128just assign the bug to rodrigo_ ;-)11:39
* rodrigo_ hides11:39
fta2seb128, who?11:39
seb128fta2, the rodrigo part was a joke but please open a bug with a stacktrace11:40
seb128give the number here, we well deal with it11:40
seb128rodrigo_, no luck for you that GNOME is moving half of the services in g-s-d ;-)11:40
fta2oh, it's the same i got this morning: bug 80461711:40
ubot2Launchpad bug 804617 in gnome-settings-daemon "gnome-settings-daemon assert failure: gnome-settings-daemon: ../../src/xcb_io.c:515: _XReply: Assertion `!dpy->xcb->reply_data' failed." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80461711:40
seb128#6  0x06014e57 in ?? () from /usr/lib/gnome-settings-daemon-3.0/liba11y-keyboard.so11:41
fta2i can fully retrace it11:44
seb128let me check what happened to the retracers11:44
didrocksjibel: was there a bug for the datetime indicator content not being readable with the new theme?11:46
jibeldidrocks, bug 80434811:47
ubot2Launchpad bug 804348 in light-themes "datetime indicator calendar difficult to read with Ambiance (light grey on white)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80434811:47
didrocksjibel: thanks! :)11:47
didrockssession restart, brb12:02
* didrocks starts thunderbird12:04
didrockschrisccoulson: once I enter my setup and that it retrieved my email provider config (imap/smtp), I find that weird that the label is entitled "create account" (I think user can think it's about creating a new account on the server)12:09
fta2seb128, #6  0x06014e57 in set_server_from_gsettings (manager=<value optimized out>) at gsd-a11y-keyboard-manager.c:34612:19
seb128didrocks, is that a french translation or the english string?12:22
seb128seems like it should be "set up account" or similar in english12:22
seb128fta2, thanks12:22
fta2seb128, the bug has been retraced by lp12:23
seb128great, I've restarted the retracers12:23
seb128seems that worked12:23
didrocksseb128: english string12:25
didrocksI have all th in english rightnow12:25
* desrt brings english strings to france12:26
seb128desrt, hey ;-)12:28
desrthey :)12:28
desrtwe're having a party in paris in a couple of days.  you should come :)12:28
seb128didrocks, did that started about at the same time desrt entered in France? we should consider sending him back to Canada to get our french back!12:29
seb128desrt, "we" being?12:29
desrtme and some ubuntu-fr folks12:29
seb128nice ;)12:29
desrtYoBoY, kinouchou, etc.12:29
desrti guess not dbarth12:30
seb128you should go to rmll and have a party there ;-)12:30
desrtunfortunately i already have an overlapping trip planned to germany12:30
desrteast germany, i mean :)12:30
didrocksseb128: agreed, no ubuntu font in th, english strings…12:33
didrocksthat looks like suspicious :)12:34
didrockschrisccoulson: also, I'm looking for two shortcuts: group by thread (seems I have to go to the menu) and mark as unread12:43
chrisccoulsonhey didrocks. not sure if there is a shortcut for the first one, but the second one can be achieved by clicking on the small icon in the "Read" column of the folder pane12:45
didrockschrisccoulson: I don't have a "Read" column by default is seems12:47
didrockschrisccoulson: I see a small icon showing that it's not read in the subject column12:48
seb128rodrigo_, bug #804946 seems to be a gift from pedro to you ;-)12:48
ubot2Launchpad bug 804946 in gnome-settings-daemon "gnome-settings-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in g_variant_unref()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80494612:48
chrisccoulsondidrocks, i think it's the column on the right-hand side of the subject column12:48
seb128rodrigo_, g_settings_get_boolean (settings=0x0 seems wrong12:48
chrisccoulsoni'm not sure if that's default though, as my columns are slightly different with the conversations extension12:49
rodrigo_seb128, ok12:49
seb128chrisccoulson, you are not even testing what you ship to users!12:49
didrockschrisccoulson: it's not the default indeed12:50
didrockshum, I would like to keep the default though :)12:50
chrisccoulsondidrocks, hmm, i just created a new profile and got that column by default ;)12:51
didrockschrisccoulson: oh, the green one? it's confusing. What's the little lightning on the left of the subject title means though?12:52
didrocksseems that th is not keyboard addict friendly :)12:52
chrisccoulsondidrocks, yeah, it's the little green icon12:52
didrockschrisccoulson: and the other one?12:53
didrocksthe little light for unread messages on the left of the message?12:53
didrocksis it some kind of "never read"?12:53
chrisccoulsondidrocks, good question ;)12:53
chrisccoulsondidrocks, ah. that icon is "new", rather than "unread"12:55
chrisccoulson(ie, it arrived in the last download)12:55
didrocksoh ok :)12:56
chrisccoulsonseems fairly redundant though12:56
seb128rodrigo_, sorry, bug #804896 seems to collect some duplicates as well and new since the update to 3.112:56
ubot2Launchpad bug 804896 in gnome-settings-daemon "gnome-settings-daemon assert failure: gnome-settings-daemon: ../../src/xcb_io.c:140: dequeue_pending_request: Assertion `req == dpy->xcb->pending_requests' failed." [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80489612:56
chrisccoulsonor, to be more precise, it's "new, since the last time you viewed this mailbox"12:57
seb128rodrigo_, but I'm done for today ;-) I guess you can handle the g-s-d g-c-c tarballs and oneiric updates and look at those later12:57
rodrigo_seb128, ok, taking it also :-)12:57
seb128chrisccoulson, is there an icon for "new since I got my coffee" and "new since I went for dinner"? ;-)12:57
chrisccoulsonhmmm, the message indicator doesn't cope too well with me opening 2 instances of thunderbird12:58
didrockschrisccoulson: the only confusing things I find right now is with the indicator, which seems to pick the 6 first folder with new content rather than selected one12:58
didrockschrisccoulson: also, would be nice to use the ubuntu font for messages12:58
chrisccoulsondidrocks, yeah, we could probably use that for plain text messages12:59
seb128didrocks, "selected one"?13:00
seb128didrocks, how do you select the folders to get in the indicator?13:00
chrisccoulsondidrocks, as for the indicator - we limit the number of entries to 6 (as per the spec)13:00
didrocksseb128: I would say either take inbox, either have something like the folder subcription13:00
seb128the spec is not made for geeks ;-)13:01
didrockschrisccoulson: I have a folder for oneiric-changes, I prefer to ensure I have the inbox there than being notified for every new upload :)13:01
didrocksthe spec tells that you can limit to inbox, isn't it?13:01
didrocksinbox would be enough for me :)13:01
chrisccoulsondidrocks, no, the spec says we should have one for every folder, limited to 613:01
njpatelchrisccoulson, hey, there is a project to integrate thunderbird into eds right?13:01
chrisccoulsonnjpatel, m_conley_away is working on the contacts integration atm13:02
seb128chrisccoulson, not true13:02
njpatelchrisccoulson, and calendering?13:02
seb128"The selection of the “Notify new messages for Inbox only” setting should be mapped to whether the “When new mail arrives in” menu is set to “Inbox” or “any folder”. "13:02
seb128in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu/13:02
seb128chrisccoulson, ^13:02
seb128but yeah, it's not well presented in the spec13:03
seb128there is that for evo but not in the "How applications should integrate with the messaging menu" section13:03
chrisccoulsonseb128, yeah, that seems evo specific13:03
seb128worth checking with mpt13:03
didrockswhy evo specific?13:03
chrisccoulsondidrocks, that's in the bit specific to evolution13:04
seb128didrocks, because it's not in the "Recommended behavior for e-mail clients"13:04
seb128didrocks, it's just next to the evo preferences screenshot13:04
chrisccoulson"A mail program should provide one message source item for each mailbox that contains new messages concerning you"13:04
chrisccoulsonin "Recommended behavior for e-mail clients"13:04
seb128chrisccoulson, didn't you say that "concerning you" implied you were in the To:13:05
didrockschrisccoulson: right, I think that we need a definition about "each mailbox that contains new messages concerning you"13:05
chrisccoulsonevolution doesn't do this at all, by default13:05
njpatelchrisccoulson, calendering? :) (sorry someone is asking me)13:05
seb128i.e mailing lists should be out?13:05
chrisccoulsonseb128, right. we ignore messages that aren't addressed to you already13:05
seb128so -changes should be listed?13:05
chrisccoulson(well, we don't request attention for those, but we do add them to the indicator)13:05
seb128should "not" be13:05
chrisccoulsoni know how to fix this ;)13:06
seb128chrisccoulson, do you rank boxes with messages for you up in the list?13:06
seb128i.e do they show before the ones which don't?13:06
seb128that's like what didrocks want13:07
chrisccoulsonseb128, not yet. we currently add indicator entries until there are 6 of them, and then we queue them up13:07
didrocksyeah, because not seeing the inbox content because g-s-d apport retraces works, is bad :/13:07
seb128I guess doing that would solve the issue13:07
chrisccoulsonthe fix is to give a lower priority for those mailboxes where we don't request attention13:07
seb128hey pitti, wies gets?13:08
chrisccoulsonhi pitti, how are you feeling today?13:08
pittilucidfox: the SRU team doesn't (normally) do verification -- that should be done by bug reporters; but of course anyone can test the packages and give feedback13:08
seb128didrocks, chrisccoulson: ranking those where you got messages directed to you would fix the mailing list issue13:08
pittiseb128, didrocks, chrisccoulson: hey guys, made it back home in one piece?13:09
chrisccoulsonseb128, yeah. that's pretty easy for me to do13:09
chrisccoulsonpitti - yeah, although my flight back got delayed by 1 hour. the delay was longer than my actual flight ;)13:09
pittijibel: doc-base bug> I looked a it before, it's fairly dubious to me; I'll check the debian bug again13:09
seb128pitti, yes, no issue, just a 4 hours connection in amsterdam13:09
seb128pitti, how is your ubuflu going?13:09
pittiseb128: quite a bit better13:10
pittiworst was on Saturday13:10
seb128but good that you are getting better13:10
chrisccoulsondidrocks, ok, so i can fix that anyway :)13:10
pittiyesterday we went climbing, and it seems the physical effort and sweating made it quite a bit better :)13:10
didrockshey pitti, yeah, back with an uneventful flight! ;-)13:10
seb128pitti, btw I restarted the retracers, they had a lock file from friday with no error in the log13:11
pittinow I just came back home13:11
pittiseb128: thanks13:11
seb128pitti, just removing the lock was enough, dunno what happened13:11
didrockschrisccoulson: ok, last question to bother you, about the font in default view? I tried to change in preferences -> display settings, but it doesn't impact email contents13:11
chrisccoulsondidrocks, for html e-mail?13:11
pittineed to do some household stuff etc.; I have a swap day today, but want to catch up on things, too13:11
didrockschrisccoulson: and I don't have the mandatory photos in the ldap, but that's a small issue :)13:11
didrockschrisccoulson: no, it's a text only one13:12
pittioh, why does dist-upgrade want to pull all the gtk2 indicators back in?13:12
seb128pitti, unity-2d13:12
pittiisn't that qt?13:12
seb128not the indicators13:12
seb128they reuse as much of 3d they can13:12
seb128they will share the 3d loader as well this cycle but that's short for a213:13
seb128will be solved for a313:13
pittiseb128: thanks for the heads-up13:16
chrisccoulsondidrocks, hmm, it worked here if i change the font for Monospace text to the right one13:17
didrockspitti: basically this removal depends on the next unity release to share the required components (what Cimi is working on right now)13:18
didrockschrisccoulson: weird, maybe need a restart, let me try13:18
didrockschrisccoulson: right, after restarting, it's ok13:19
* rodrigo_ -> lunch13:19
chrisccoulsoni'm reluctant to change the default fonts in thunderbird though. if we set it to the ubuntu fonts, it will break if those aren't installed13:19
seb128this language selection on login discussion is weird13:19
chrisccoulsonwe should keep them set to the "monospace" alias, and the font system should do the job of selecting the desired font13:20
seb128those who support it insist it's useful on the login screen but still without doing a solid usecase for it13:20
didrockschrisccoulson: why not recommending it? I think if it's not there, the fallback should be handled directly, isn't it?13:20
didrockschrisccoulson: not having the right default font in one app is weird and not coherent13:21
chrisccoulsondidrocks, how would it determine a fallback? this is what the monospace alias is for isn't it? (ie, the font system does the job of selecting the correct font)13:22
didrockschrisccoulson: or monospace should point the default, right13:22
chrisccoulsondidrocks, yeah, that's how it should work13:22
cyphermoxgood morning!13:23
didrockshey cyphermox13:23
cyphermoxhey didrocks13:23
cyphermoxso; telepathy-salut is still failing, and the update that fixes the bugs is stuck in depwait (xmldiff isn't in main)13:25
cyphermoxso unless someone disagrees, I'd path configure.ac to not require xmldiff and drop that build-depends (it doesn't appear to be used, and builds fine without)13:25
seb128hey cyphermox13:26
seb128seems fine to do if it's not needed13:26
didrockschrisccoulson: also, it would be nice if the blue header in email thread can be orange13:26
cyphermoxMIR didn't seem like as good an idea because it doesn't seem like xmldiff is hugely maintained13:26
seb128should be sent to debian and upstream as well13:26
didrocksargh, I almost lost all my inbox thanks to thunderbird…13:30
pittididrocks: thank goodness we don't ship that by default!13:34
pittioh wait13:34
* didrocks has a 10s tip to remove all the emails13:34
didrocksand so, after recovering with evolution the deleted emails, now, it marks random ones as unread :/13:35
didrocksok, got from 0 -> 28 unread -> 0 without touching anything13:35
mptchrisccoulson, seb128: Which messages get notified in the messaging menu is up to the mail client (just like any other form of notification). Inbox only would be a good start. Attaching something to the folder properties would be one way of advancing from there.13:56
=== m_conley_away is now known as m_conley
mptThunderbird (3, at least) only has notification for any new message, so I guess it wouldn't make sense to get much more complex than that before Thunderbird itself does.13:57
chrisccoulsonmpt, hmmm, we can do a lot more than that with thunderbird :/13:59
chrisccoulson(and are, already)13:59
mptchrisccoulson, ok. Has T5 upstream introduced more fine-grained notification for individual folders?14:00
chrisccoulsonmpt - oh, not for notifications. but the information to make it fine-grained is there (and always has been). i'm using it already for the messaging indicator work14:01
Sweetsharkpitti: how should something like http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=610817 be handled? _rene_ updated to the LO deps, so I assume we are hit by this on natty. Sync javahelper to natty too?14:01
ubot2Debian bug 610817 in javahelper "javahelper: jh_depends fails when a jar file is a relative symlink" [Normal,Fixed]14:01
mptchrisccoulson, so which folders do you show? Any folders that have unread messages? Any that have "new" messages?14:01
chrisccoulsonmpt - any which have a new message get shown (up to 6), but we currently don't request attention unless the folder has a new message which is either addressed directly to the recipient, is starred, or has a high-importance14:03
mptchrisccoulson, nifty. My only concern is that it might be a bit mysterious if people can't see what it is that causes a message to show up there14:06
mptchrisccoulson, one way to help that would be to mention it in a help page. Another would be to have an interface for configuring it.14:07
didrocksor if you have a lot of folders you are not interested to be notified with, and missing important one like inbox14:07
chrisccoulsondidrocks, right, i already have a fix for your case though ;)14:07
chrisccoulson(we'll give priority in the menu to folders with interesting messages in them)14:07
didrockschrisccoulson: like, always showing inbox whatever order of new are there?14:07
chrisccoulsondidrocks, what if my inbox doesn't have anything interesting in it, and other folders do?14:08
chrisccoulsonthis is what i hated about the evo implementation. it just assumes that because i use a filter to move it to another folder, that i don't want to be notified about it14:09
didrockschrisccoulson: well, I think inbox is the one where people are more focussed to? I'm not sure how you want to include the "relevant message ones"?14:09
chrisccoulsondidrocks, we would use the same checks as we use for deciding if the message is interesting enough to request attention (ie, change the colour of the icon)14:10
didrockschrisccoulson: so I would be notified for every blueprint I'm subscribed? (as I'm in the To:)14:10
didrocksor every bug I'm a subscriber?14:11
seb128didrocks, do you have over 6 boxes which get mails directed to you and not listed or launchpad?14:11
didrocksseb128: that's what I'm just checking and it seems the answer is yes14:11
seb128didrocks, fix your filtering? ;-)14:11
chrisccoulsondidrocks, we might also filter out messages where "From != Sender", which would catch your blueprint case ;)14:11
chrisccoulsoni've already thought about this ;)14:12
didrockschrisccoulson: no, because for every blueprint your subscribe, you are in To:14:12
didrocksseb128: well, tool deciding from my workflow and forcing me to filter less? :/14:12
chrisccoulsondidrocks, right, but we would filter it out because the From address is not the same as the Sender14:12
chrisccoulsoni'm just currently trying to figure out if there are any other implications of doing that14:13
seb128didrocks, don't use the messaging menu if it doesn't work for you?14:13
didrocksseb128: it was working with evolution14:13
seb128didrocks, there is no solution to the "I filter emails in 25 boxes"14:13
seb128didrocks, "working", evolution only notify your about inbox messages which sucks14:13
seb128it's mostly useless14:13
didrockswell, for your filters :)14:13
seb128I filter server side14:14
didrockssame for me14:14
seb128so it's useless14:14
seb128like evo never notify my of emails in my work box14:14
chrisccoulsondidrocks - i have a possible solution for the blueprints anyway. are there any other which are a concern? ;)14:14
seb128because it watches only inbox14:14
didrocksseb128: my work box is my inbox, it's the important pending stuff, the other are filtered14:14
didrocksso different workflow, which doesn't mean that any tool choose to enforce some14:15
seb128didrocks, well that might be true for you, my inbox is where all the things I don't wait for land and a spam box14:15
seifdidrocks, question14:15
seb128didrocks, so I filter things I care about in other boxes14:15
seifdidrocks, why is my touchpad not working14:15
seifand only the nipple thing14:15
didrocksseif: contrary for me, things are care are by subject, but if they are filtered, it's because they don't need immediate attention14:15
didrocksseif: better to check on #ubuntu-x with the xorg guys14:16
didrockschrisccoulson: so, for instance, I received assigned bugmail in bugs/assignee/<team>14:16
seb128didrocks, well, I'm just saying the evo way is not better, it just work for different people14:16
didrocksseb128: I agree, I just told it was better *for me*14:16
chrisccoulsondidrocks, the check which filters out the blueprint mail would also filter out bug mail too14:16
didrockschrisccoulson: I don't understand, you want to filter that how? From != To -> notify?14:17
seb128the only way to solve it for everybody would be a checkbox by mailbox14:17
seb128to let you say "don't notify me about this box"14:18
seb128but we are down to corner cases, real world users don't have over 6 boxes14:18
didrocksseb128: was my first proposal about subcription some hours ago :)14:18
seb128not sure we should bother about corner cases14:18
seb128let's fix real issues first14:18
seb128(yeah it sucks because it means it work less fine for us)14:19
seb128chrisccoulson, what is the difference between sender and from in meaning?14:19
seb128chrisccoulson, would that happen in case somebody fwd you an email too?14:19
chrisccoulsonseb128, "The person or agent submitting the message to the network, if other than shown by the From: header." (from RFC2076)14:20
chrisccoulsoni'm still working out whether i can use it14:20
chrisccoulsonso far, all messages which are explicitly sent to me by a human don't have a separate "Sender" header14:21
seb128bah, f*** evolution14:25
seb128it segfaults on opening google calendar invitations emails14:25
didrockschrisccoulson: seems it will filter the mailing list as well14:25
chrisccoulsondidrocks, yeah, i just noticed that too14:25
seb128do you want to be notified about mailing lists?14:26
didrockswhich will be ok with me, but I'm sure not for others…14:26
didrocksseb128: right now, with the current behavior, you will be14:26
seb128I though those were already filtered out because the to: is not you?14:26
seifdidrocks, its me again14:26
chrisccoulsonyeah, that's right. but we still show them if someone addresses it to you14:27
seifdidrocks, how do i change the icon theme14:27
chrisccoulson(ie, if somebody replies incorrectly) ;)14:27
seb128chrisccoulson, well it will still do it when they reply to all because that will send 2 emails, one to you directly14:27
didrocksseif: install and run gnome-tweak-tool14:27
seb128chrisccoulson, that one should not get a sender:14:27
chrisccoulsonah, yes. that's probably the case actually14:27
chrisccoulsonso that might still work14:27
seifand this installs mutter-common14:28
seb128seif, use dconf-editor14:29
didrockschrisccoulson: RES mem is 578M here, is it known?14:29
chrisccoulsondidrocks, i haven't seen it use that much before. how much mail do you have?14:29
didrockschrisccoulson: well, depends on the folder, is there a way to know the total number?14:29
didrocks(with the same amount of email, I'm at 240 in evo and it doesn't freeze as much right now)14:30
chrisccoulsondidrocks, it should tell you in the statusbar14:30
seb128pitti, mvo: is that wanted that update-manager let me install packages without asking for a password?14:30
didrockschrisccoulson: only for the current folder though?14:30
pittiSweetshark: we should avoid updating javahelper into natty unless we really need to (but we can't sync it, someone needs to prepare an actual SRU)14:31
pittiSweetshark: but for the natty LibO SRU it could just revert the dependency?14:31
* pitti -> off again14:31
seb128pitti, mvo: ignore me, it does now14:31
pittiseb128: yes, that was changed last week14:31
pittiseb128: we now grant the package upgrade privilege by default to local admin sessions14:31
seb128pitti, it's broken in some way then ;-)14:31
pitti(but _only_ for admins)14:31
pittibut installation of new packages still requires passworrd14:32
seb128oh ok14:32
seb128pitti, thanks, have fun!14:32
chrisccoulsondidrocks, yeah, although i'm not sure what you get if you click on the actual mail account. with the mail summaries extension, i get an overall count (14 folders with 23621 messages)14:32
chrisccoulsoni need to delete some messages ;)14:33
didrockschrisccoulson: I have nothing in the status bar in the mail account info14:33
didrocksso yeah, should be your extension14:33
didrocksin fact, I notice it jumps depending on which folder I'm in14:33
seb128jibel, the default application didn't migrate to dconf, they use mimetypes now14:35
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=== chaotic_ is now known as chaotic
Sweetsharkpitti: thats what I did (revert the dep), but I fear the build will break now.14:42
=== chaotic_ is now known as chaotic
jibelseb128, which means that corresponding launchers on unity-2d's dash won't be displayed until migrated ?14:53
seb128jibel, well it probably means they need to update their code yes14:53
chrisccoulsondidrocks, do you use the 2D unity session at all?14:55
chrisccoulsonm_conley currently has no indicators in it14:55
seb128jibel, bug #800689 is similar for unity 3d14:57
ubot2Launchpad bug 800689 in unity "Should stop using gconf in oneiric" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80068914:57
seb128chrisccoulson, didrocks "fixed" it today to install the indicator-...-gt214:58
seb128chrisccoulson, they didn't port their loader to gtk3 yet14:58
chrisccoulsonseb128, thanks14:58
chrisccoulson^^ m_conley14:58
seb128if he does an upgrade that should fix it14:58
m_conleychrisccoulson / seb128: gotcha, thanks14:59
seb128jibel, do you have a GNOME bugzilla account?15:18
jibelseb128, I think I have one somewhere but is there a gnome equivalent to apport to make it easy to spam bugzilla with reports ?15:20
seb128jibel, not really ;-) but don't bother about it, I think it's logical that you spam launchpad and that pedro upstream those that concern GNOME15:21
jibelseb128, anyway I think I nearly finished to review g-c-c, I'll upstream the reports.15:22
seb128jibel, it's just that the number of g-s-d and g-c-c bugs seems to be over what rodrigo_ can work on15:22
seb128so we should upstream those without waiting on rodrigo15:22
seb128jibel, do you want me to upstream those that I know make sense upstream?15:22
seb128jibel, ignore my ping, I think you should focus on Ubuntu issues and let teams deal with their upstreams15:23
seb128jibel, if you want to be nice to rodrigo just move to hammer another product for a bit :p15:23
rodrigo_seb128, oh, so far it's ok, for the ones I have assigned to me15:23
rodrigo_but yeah, upstream as many as you can15:24
jibelseb128, I found a fair amount in unity and unity-2d as well, so there are bugs on everyone's plate.15:24
jibelanyway tomorrow is ubiquity's turn15:25
seb128didrocks, bug #801282 is likely an unity issue I think but you might be able to confirm or not15:31
ubot2Launchpad bug 801282 in unity "wrong gnome-control-center icon displayed on dash" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80128215:31
seb128didrocks, since the capplets have desktop files calling "g-c-c <capplet>" in oneiric I guess they all match alt-f2 g-c-c15:32
seb128it doesn't favorite exact matching right?15:32
didrocksseb128: it is an unity-places-application issue15:49
seb128didrocks, thanks15:49
seb128didrocks, could you run your bug syncing script btw?15:50
didrocksseb128: njpatel doesn't want anymore15:50
didrocksseb128: until they are actually fixing bugs15:50
seb128just curious but why?15:51
* didrocks pokes the gconf backend…15:57
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seb128jibel, could you get a debug stacktrace or open a bug with apport and the segfault details on bug #80547316:12
ubot2Launchpad bug 805473 in gnome-control-center "gnome-control-center crashed with SIGSEGV in g_simple_async_result_complete()" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80547316:12
jibelseb128, still installing dbg packages.16:15
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ftagrr, gtk is spamming ~/.xsession-errors16:51
chrisccoulsondidrocks, maaaaaan, fixing your use cases is making my head explode ;)16:58
didrockschrisccoulson: \o/ achievement :-)16:58
didrockschrisccoulson: sorry about that ;)16:58
chrisccoulsonthat's ok ;)16:59
ftadidrocks, what's the typical memory usage of compiz/unity3d on i386?17:01
didrocksfta: depends on your hardware, nvidia cards take more17:01
fta1825 fta       20   0 1109m 802m  16m S   31 24.5 647:17.12 compiz17:02
didrocksseems a memleak though17:02
didrocksshold be 400 or something like that17:02
ftait's clearly a pig17:02
ftadidrocks, i was trying to track down why indicator-datetime-service takes a full core for a several seconds every few minutes, but compiz seems in a bad state17:04
didrocksfta: not that bad, 413, 95 there since this morning17:05
didrocksfta: you are not using nouveau?17:05
ftadidrocks, no, nvidia-current17:05
didrockshum, same here :/17:06
ftadidrocks, 1111m 805m. it's increasing17:29
didrocksfta: better to check that with the unity people, running in valgrind can help. Testing if compiz only is doing that (by removing the unity plugin) can be of used too17:29
seb128try to figure what you use or do that create the issue17:30
seb128"301m  89m  12m" here after a day of use17:30
seb128using the application place and alt-f2 often17:30
ftabooh, the indicator-datetime-service CPU spikes seems to be related to org/gnome/evolution/dataserver/Calendar/...17:33
rodrigo_out now for a bit, bbl17:34
ftait's polling a lot of stuff every 5min or so, freezing compiz for ~30sec17:35
chrisccoulsondidrocks, http://paste.ubuntu.com/638035/. that should ensure that your inbox has priority over other mail boxes in your menu ;)17:38
didrockschrisccoulson: you totally rock! :)17:39
ftadidrocks, the leak stopped after i killed indicator-multiload17:50
didrocksfta: weird, I though we had a fix for that17:50
ftai thought that was fixed weeks ago17:50
didrockshum… need to track that again I think17:51
didrocksfta: can you reopen a bug about it?17:51
didrockswill ensure it's trackd17:51
ftahm, hold on, it's moving up again17:51
ftait was taking ~100k per min. remained stable for 5 min after i killed that indicator, but it's now moving up again17:52
didrocksit didn't respawn?17:52
didrockswould be nice to have an idea of what you have on your system creating that issue. Oneiric is not that different from natty for unity17:53
ftacompiz is still taking 10% cpu, while i'm not even touching it17:53
seb128didrocks, that part of the code is quite different17:57
didrockswith the gtk3 stake you mean? right, it changed thinking about it17:57
seb128didrocks, i.e http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/trunk/revision/120817:58
seb128didrocks, no, with tim's refactoring17:58
ftarestarting, it's unbearably slow17:58
seb128but you can probably count the gtk3 switch as well17:58
ftabrb (assuming unity wishes to start, unlike in the last 2 weeks)17:59
ftabahh :(18:01
fta $ /usr/lib/nux/unity_support_test18:01
ftaX Error of failed request:  BadWindow (invalid Window parameter)18:01
fta  Major opcode of failed request:  138 (NV-GLX)18:01
ftaany idea?18:02
didrocksfta: try in jockey to remove, then readd the nvidia driver18:03
ftajockey doesn't work for me, it fails with a cryptic error18:04
ftais "apt-get install --reinstall nvidia-current" enough?18:05
didrocksfta: maybe, I did it through jockey (and others as well) to get it working18:06
ftait worked18:08
ftaok, compiz started at 256m  96m  30m, far from my 1109m 802m  16m18:10
didrocksok, sounds clloser to what I have now :)18:12
ftait's already leaking18:12
ftai just have xchat and 2 xterms18:13
ftaand the indicators18:13
seb128what non standard indicators?18:13
seb128does it do with only standard indicators?18:14
ftajust multilad, everything else is by default18:14
ftakilling it18:14
didrocksok, see you tomorrow guys, will try to rest a little18:28
seb128fta: does it work better without it?18:31
seb128vuntz, your note to packagers in gnome-desktop is weird18:33
ftaseb128, slightly18:33
seb128fta: it's weird, other people don't get that issue so it's likely something out of the default configuration18:34
seb128fta: how much is "slightly"?18:34
seb128I can believe that indicators are leaking and that the multiload indicator triggers that but you shouldn't get lot of leaking with the standard set18:35
seb128they don't refresh or update often18:35
ftaseb128, http://paste.ubuntu.com/638071/18:38
seb128fta: seems quite ok since you stopped it18:40
seb128GunnarHj, hey18:41
ftaseb128, i'll keep watching18:43
seb128fta: thanks, I will try to get a valgrind log with the indicator-multiload and ping dx about it if needed18:44
ftai'm already at 103M :(18:44
seb128fta: try to see if it still does it while you don't use the computer18:45
vuntzseb128: weird as in "not understandable" or "not usual"?18:45
seb128vuntz, like as "why an api addition warrant a warning, those are usually fine"18:45
GunnarHjseb128: Hello Sebastien!18:45
seb128vuntz, would make sense for a change in an existant api or a drop of function18:54
vuntzseb128: well, yes and no18:54
seb128vuntz, did you meant to warn that there is an api break in there?18:54
vuntzseb128: it won't change the major of the soversion18:54
vuntzseb128: but it could change minor, and when an API break occurs, we'd go to libgnome-desktop418:54
vuntzseb128: which makes no sense in that  case18:54
vuntzseb128: (we already had libgnome-desktop0, libgnome-desktop1 and libgnome-desktop2 just in 3.1.x)18:54
seb128does anyone care about the major? ;-)18:54
vuntzI do :-)18:54
seb128let me rephrase18:54
seb128is there any packaging system handling the major version in a special way?18:54
seb128(just curious)18:54
seb128(ours is just dealing with soname)18:54
vuntzno, I just hate that we reach 42 so quickly18:54
seb128GunnarHj, how are you?18:54
vuntzwell you use soname + major of soversion18:54
seb128vuntz, ok, the warning makes sense if you care about the libtool numbers I guess ;-)18:54
seb128I would tend to take addition as normal and not worth a warning18:54
vuntzseb128: anyway, there's no api break ;-)18:54
seb128that's why I wanted to check ;-)18:54
seb128vuntz, thanks18:54
seb128vuntz, how are you btw?18:54
GunnarHjseb128: I'm fine, thanks. The summer weather makes life more easy. How about you? You seem to be rather busy at the moment. :)18:54
seb128GunnarHj, summer weather is nice indeed, can't complain ;-) yeah, things tend to be always busy there :p18:54
seb128GunnarHj, about the gdm discussion, don't take robert_ancell wrongly, he doesn't want to drop the feature18:54
seb128GunnarHj, it's just that rather than doing things the same way just because they were like that before he's trying to understand the rational and if that's the best way to provide what is needed18:54
seb128GunnarHj, which goes with "understand the need, then figure what best deserves it"18:54
GunnarHjseb128: Doesn't he? He could have fooled me. Did, actually...18:54
seb128GunnarHj, well he just states that nobody proved the need for having that option in that place, if you or somebody else comes with a convincing argument he will probably be fine with it18:55
seb128GunnarHj, doing thing a way because they were done that way before is not always right, it would mean we never question or improve ;-)18:55
seb128GunnarHj, just curious but do you often need to change your session locale? for what reasons (out of testing which is an hacker thing, not an user one)18:55
GunnarHjseb128: Absolutely. About questioning the way we do it, I mean. But it's not easy to present _proofs_ as regards the need just like that.18:55
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seb128GunnarHj, well, no need of proof, you just need to come with examples18:55
seb128i.e give reasons why you change locales on your profile if you do so18:56
seb128but seems like so far the main argument was "on first login a new user need to select the locale" which could done in the user account dialog when adding the account18:56
GunnarHjseb128: No, if you disregard all the testings I've done, I don't change language often. I think robert_ancell is right about that we are talking about a rather small minority.18:57
GunnarHjseb128: But people with disabilities is a minority too. Are we going to ignore their needs?18:58
seb128is the small minority enough to justify exposing the option on the login screen?18:58
seb128GunnarHj, no, but those need are defined and clear to understand18:58
seb128what we try to get from that discussion is the need from people who want a locale selector on the login screen18:58
seb128we can't really address their issue without understand it18:59
seb128so far people only stated that's needed for a minority but nobody gave enough infos to figure what is the exact need18:59
seb128without knowing that it's hard to address the need in a correct way18:59
GunnarHjseb128: Without knowing how big the group is, yes, I think the exposure can be justified. Why? Because we know that there are people who appreciate it, and that those who don't aren't harmed by it in any way.19:01
seb128your argument seems to be "let's put it there because why not, some people find it handy and we can"19:02
seb128but you could justify adding quite some options on the login screen the same way19:02
seb128quite some users would like a way to configure the greeter options from there19:02
seb128i.e sound, color, images19:02
seb128also they need a "selector" there, but do they need to select language for text? input methods? keyboard layout?19:03
seb128without understanding what they want to do it's not easy to understand what options should be exposed in the ui19:04
GunnarHjseb128: I'd rather say let's not remove it, because we haven't properly analysed the need.19:04
seb128the discussion is "let's analyse the need so we figure how we answer it properly"19:04
GunnarHjseb128: Language is a special case, since changes don't take effect within a session.19:05
seb128the answer could be "let's do what we had before" but could be different19:05
seb128like we didn't have an input method selector before19:05
seb128is that needed?19:05
GunnarHjseb128: I didn't know that we have an input method selector...19:06
seb128GunnarHj, ok, I need to go for dinner, I just wanted to try to explain why robert_ancell is doing that since it seemed you took it has an effort to drop the feature from your replies19:06
seb128GunnarHj, we have one in the session, not on the login screen19:07
seb128got to go19:07
GunnarHjseb128: Ok. Let's see if the discussion moves forward when he wakes up.19:07
GunnarHjBy, seb.19:07
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=== m_conley is now known as m_conley_away

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