[01:04] <bazhang> I use ubuntu. fix my car.
[01:11] <elky> and where's my private yacht, dammit.
[01:13] <rww> I stole it and used it to make autotuned Youtube videos.
[01:17] <bazhang> truepurple is claiming that there are inert (possibly) viruses found on Ubuntu, if I am reading that right
[02:45] <rww> !enter > dee27
[02:47] <bazhang> dropbox referral in quit message
[02:47] <bazhang> clever
[03:10] <bazhang> why not add askubuntu.com to the wiki, or is that better with forums factoid
[03:12] <elky> bazhang, i believe it's because nobody's "authorised" it as "official"
[03:12] <rww> heh, I see they never got ask.ubuntu.com going
[03:13] <Pici> Whats not official about askubuntu?
[03:14] <rww> How are we defining "official"?
[03:14] <Pici> Its official enough for me.
[03:15] <IdleOne> even if askubuntu is not official it is still way better than the rest of the non official sites out there
[03:17] <bazhang> elky, could be
[03:17] <Pici> Its on !patience
[03:17] <bazhang> with all the recommendations of webud8 and omgubuntu though, its certainly a step up
[03:17] <rww> !search askubuntu
[03:17] <rww> !search forums
[03:17] <rww> oh, derp
[03:17] <rww> duh **
[03:18] <Pici> and is run by a number of influential Ubuntu members
[03:20] <elky> i'm going by recollections of the last time we tried to get it listed
[03:21] <elky> im quite happy to +1 it, but it caused protests last time i did.
[03:21] <rww> I forget what my opinion was of it last time around, so let's go with +0
[03:21] <IdleOne> since we already have it in !patience I see no harm adding it to !wiki
[03:22] <rww> !wiki
[03:22] <rww> . !wiki appears to be for wikis. ask ubuntu isn't.
[03:22] <IdleOne> true, but as an alternative help source.
[03:22] <bazhang> then forums, perhaps?
[03:22] <bazhang> !forums
[03:22] <rww> !search ubuntuforums
[03:23] <rww> oh for pete's sake. dear mind, there is a channel that conflicts with what you're looking for
[03:23] <rww> someone find me all the factoids that mention the forums :(
[03:23] <IdleOne> bazhang: !forums seems more appropriate yup
[03:24] <rww> I think it's fine to be on factoids that currently mention both the forums and the wiki (i.e., lists of other places for help). !forums and !wiki appear to be "here are forums" and "here are wikis". askubuntu.com doesn't brand itself as either.
[03:25] <bazhang> seems odd its only on patience
[03:25] <IdleOne> if it isn't a forum what is it?
[03:27] <rww> IdleOne: a collaboratively edited question and answer site
[03:27] <elky> IdleOne, both a wiki and a forum
[03:28] <IdleOne> the questions and answer are not edited. you post a question, others answer it. They added a voting thingy but that does not take away from it's value
[03:28] <rww> they are, actually
[03:28] <IdleOne> anyway, askubuntu is better then OMG or webup8 and friends. I am ok with it.
[03:28] <rww> see the "improve this question" and "improve this answer" links on askubuntu pages
[03:29] <IdleOne> rww: still does not take from the usefulness
[03:29] <rww> they're not wikis because they involve a discussion amongst multiple people rather than documentation. they're not forums because they're collaboratively edited
[03:29] <rww> I didn't say it does. My point is that askubuntu is not a wiki or a forum.
[03:29] <bazhang> and there are tons of silly posts on the forums
[03:29] <IdleOne> ok so we can call it a wikum
[03:29] <elky> where by "forum" you mean "message board"
[03:30] <elky> because, really, forum is a much broader term
[03:43] <bazhang> lilo and supergrubdisk over grub2?
[03:43] <bazhang> this brings to mind the poindexter_ character recommending hiren's to fix something
 bazhang email extraction, phone numbers etc   <--- kosher ?
[04:03] <bazhang> that seems way more than a website scraper or whatnot
[04:05] <elky> sounds like identity mining
[05:33] <bazhang> understated
[06:48] <Jordan_U> bazhang: When someone just needs to boot Windows it's reasonable not to use grub[2]. I normally recommend "install-mbr" from the "mbr" package for installing an MS style mbr, but it's also common to use lilo's MS style mbr (and the end result, if done properly, is the same).
[08:06] <bazhang> Jordan_U, thanks for the clarification!
[08:42]  * jpds wonders what noisewaterphd's problem is.
[08:43] <jpds> Well, he suggests using "sudo bash", so ...
[08:44] <Flannel> sudo bash as a way to not have to use sudo, but 'not become root', which makes little sense
[08:45] <jpds> I think he wants something like "sudo true" and not have to type his password for a while.
[08:45] <Flannel> Still has to type sudo though.
[08:45] <jpds> Exactly.
[08:46] <Flannel> And "he" didn't want it, whomever he answered did, so it's a bit odd fr him to stick to his guns like this anyway.
[08:48] <jpds> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo#root%20account
[08:48] <jpds> Well, that just takes the biscuit.
[08:49] <Flannel> Well, some pages are rather sloppy: http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ahelp.ubuntu.com+%22sudo+bash%22
[08:50] <Flannel> The 8.04 serverguide is especially cringleworthy, because (theoretically) that was reviewed and edited
[08:51] <Flannel> Oh, wait.
[08:51] <Flannel> I guess that really is invoking the bash interpreter
[08:51] <Flannel> Either way, he seems to have quieted down in #ubuntu
[08:58] <jpds> I think he's suggesting to use backports now.
[09:32] <Tm_T> bah, I was slow
[09:40] <Tm_K> hmm
[10:24] <noisewaterphd> jpds, ?
[10:26] <jpds> "VPN uses *other* protocols for encryption, including ssh, the most common."
[10:26] <jpds> You seem to be confusing SSH and SS*L*.
[10:26] <noisewaterphd> whatever we were talking about
[10:27] <noisewaterphd> a guy was talking about tunneling it over ssh which is one valid method of securing vpn
[10:27] <jpds> No, it's not, that's redundant, as the rest of us said.
[10:27] <jpds> But, as before with the root sudo -i thing, you don't appear to know what you're talking about.
[10:32] <noisewaterphd> noisewaterphd, it isn't, if you are tunneling your vpn over ssh, the reason is to secure the first leg of the connection
[10:33] <noisewaterphd> and, sudo bash was fine and you know it
[10:38] <elky> people have private networks in plaintext?
[10:41] <noisewaterphd> For example, if you have very specific point-to- point secure communication requirements, then SSH would be the better solution. SSH client/server models can easily encrypt data from one point to another. SSH can encrypt any application for the duration of a session, provided the application has a known port.
[10:42] <noisewaterphd> The advantage to encrypting selected applications is that it reduces the potential of creating unnecessary network overhead associated with encrypting all applications as is done with VPN’s using IPSEC.
[10:42] <elky> so... ssh client/server models are not ssh?
[10:42] <elky> they use ssh, but don't use ssh?
[10:43] <noisewaterphd> what are you talking about
[10:43] <elky> i'm trying to decipher what you're saying
[10:45] <noisewaterphd> someone was trying to tell somebody else that VPN was encryption when asked about tunneling over ssh, I told them VPN was NOT encryption, that is USES encryption, and the whole thing devolved into me being banned for apparently correcting the wrong person
[10:46] <noisewaterphd> i guess now the question is why you would use SSH? I don't know?
[10:46] <noisewaterphd> I just want to know why I was banned, although it has become apparent
[10:50] <noisewaterphd> and, I told someone to use sudo bash, and was jumped on by the same person for not recommending sudo -i when the home environment was completely irrelevant, I pointed that out as well
[10:52] <noisewaterphd> so I got banned for being right i guess?
[10:53] <elky> what would be the point of that?
[10:54] <Tm_T> noisewaterphd: I admit I wasn't actively following the channel, but for what I gathered, you have been very uncooperational, refusing to listen what others are trying to tell you
[11:00] <noisewaterphd> only when they were wrong
[11:00] <noisewaterphd> only
[11:01] <noisewaterphd> and only for the sake of clarity for the others involved
[11:02] <noisewaterphd> I was not intentionally being uncooperative, it only devolved to this because no one wanted to admit they might be mistaken
[11:03] <noisewaterphd> and, I was given no reason for getting banned, at all, no warning of any kind, I didn't see it coming one bit. I thought we were discussing the issue, others apparently felt they were being attaked, which was not intended
[11:04] <Tm_T> I think there's been several attempts to get you cooperative
[11:05] <Tm_T> and no, I wouldn't say you were right and others were wrong either
[11:07] <noisewaterphd> the specific case which got me banned was a matter of someone saying that VPN was its own encryption and that SSH was redundant. I said it was not, and that it USES encryption including SSH, so he sent me a link to wikipedia apparently to prove me wrong, and right inside that link, under security mechanisms is listed SSH
[11:08] <noisewaterphd> I was trying to clarify, and someone got mad and banned me trying to save face
[11:08] <noisewaterphd> I'm sorry, but he was wrong
[11:08] <noisewaterphd> so I got banned
[11:09] <Tm_T> no
[11:09] <noisewaterphd> and now some guy is walking around thinking that VPN is encryption
[11:12] <noisewaterphd> One guy did try to get me to go to offtopic on the sudo bash issue, but I was busy typing out my explanations, as soon as I read his request to go to offtopic, I dropped it completely. That is the only attempt to get me cooperative I can think of, and again, I did not think I was being uncooperative, I was just talking. But I still dropped the whole issue when I read his request to go to offtopic
[11:14] <Tm_T> noisewaterphd: what if we do like this: let's cool down with this matter and talk about this with fresh minds tomorrow?
[11:16] <noisewaterphd> That is fine, but I am genuinely not 'hot', I just wanted to know why I was banned. If someone else is still hot, then sure, no worries
[11:18] <noisewaterphd> I had no idea until I got banned and came in this room that it was a 'hot' ego issue
[11:19] <Tm_T> who said it was an ego issue?
[11:19] <noisewaterphd> and I don't understand how he could even get worked up over me pointing it out, i thought the room was friendly
[11:19] <noisewaterphd> OK, sorry
[11:19] <noisewaterphd> so again I guess I still don't understand why I was banned
[11:21] <noisewaterphd> which is all I want to know, and if it is because someone viewed me as being uncooperative while trying to clarify their mistake, then I don't know what else to call it
[11:21] <noisewaterphd> i was just trying to help
[11:21] <noisewaterphd> i dont get it
[11:21] <noisewaterphd> really
[11:23] <Tm_T> I understand, but as I wasn't involved and not have time to really dig up into this right now, I think it's better to try sort it out tomorrow
[11:27] <noisewaterphd> I dont think there is anything to sort out. I will just stop helping out in the channel, it will just be uncomfortable for me knowing that those with the power to ban no longer like me, and are apparently easy to offend
[11:27] <noisewaterphd> and Im sure they wont like me there either
[11:28] <noisewaterphd> unless there really is some other explanation for the banning anyway
[11:29] <Tm_T> noisewaterphd: that's what we have to sort out
[11:29] <noisewaterphd> i do this for fun, and its not fun if people are like that
[11:30] <noisewaterphd> thanks
[11:31] <Tm_T> I undestand
[11:31] <Tm_T> but I really cannot do much until I have had time to look into this properly
[11:48] <elky> noisewaterphd, As per the topic, you should part here until tomorrow.
[12:08] <noisewaterphd> sure, sorry was afk
[13:11] <bazhang> looks like Dictators was up to his usual nonsense; the guy who claimed to use a vpn via wine
[13:23] <bazhang> previous nick was "desert"
[13:35] <bazhang> * yeshellothere (~hi@ur.fa.gs) has joined #ubuntu
[13:36] <ikonia> bye then
[13:38] <yeshellothere> sup ikonia
[13:38] <ikonia> hello there
[13:38] <ikonia> thanks for joining
[13:38] <ikonia> yeshellothere: I was wondering if you'd mind changing your host mask while in the ubuntu channels
[13:39] <yeshellothere> ikonia: oh sorry about that, i never know what it's set to, it's outside my control
[13:39] <ikonia> the message "you are fags" is not really acceptable in the ubuntu channels
[13:39] <yeshellothere> i'll remember to add +x
[13:39] <ikonia> I'd really appreciate that
[13:39] <yeshellothere> now i just have to remember how
[13:40] <ikonia> sadly, I don't know without checking
[13:40] <ikonia> it maybe worth speaking to the staff in freenode and asking for a cloak
[13:42] <yeshellothere> i'll just try reconnecting, see if the config change i've made works
[14:07] <bazhang> anyone making sense of cupu? claiming the nvidia drivers hurt his intel card performance
[14:07] <ikonia> no
[14:07] <bazhang> says the guys in #compiz told him this
[14:08] <ikonia> other channels can be quite harsh to get rid of people
[14:18] <ikonia> hello KolakCC
[14:18] <KolakCC> >_> Don't hurt me, I was just poking around
[14:18] <KolakCC> -scampers off-
[14:18] <ikonia> that's fine
[14:19] <ikonia> 14:19 -!- abuanoname [~abuanonam@180.241.123.23]
[14:19] <ikonia> 14:19 -!-  was      : abuanoname
[14:19] <ikonia> 14:19 -!-  server   : holmes.freenode.net [Mon Jul 4 13:18:13 2011]
[14:19] <ikonia> 14:19 -!- End of WHOWAS
[14:19] <ikonia> 14:19 -!- cupu [~abuanonam@180.241.123.23]
[14:19] <ikonia> 14:19 -!-  was      : abuanoname
[14:19] <ikonia> 14:19 -!-  server   : gibson.freenode.net [Mon Jul 4 13:14:23 2011]
[14:19] <ikonia> 14:19 -!- End of WHOWAS
[14:19] <ikonia> well well 14:19 -!- abuanoname [~abuanonam@180.241.123.23]
[14:19] <ikonia> 14:19 -!-  was      : abuanoname
[14:20] <ikonia> 14:19 -!-  server   : holmes.freenode.net [Mon Jul 4 13:18:13 2011]
[14:20] <ikonia> 14:19 -!- End of WHOWAS
[14:20] <ikonia> 14:19 -!- cupu [~abuanonam@180.241.123.23]
[14:20] <ikonia> 14:19 -!-  was      : abuanoname
[14:20] <ikonia> 14:19 -!-  server   : gibson.freenode.net [Mon Jul 4 13:14:23 2011]
[14:20] <ikonia> 14:19 -!- End of WHOWAS
[14:20] <ikonia> oops
[14:20] <bazhang> cupu
[14:20] <ikonia> sorry, didn't mean to hit that twice
[14:20] <ikonia> abuanoname was cupu
[14:20] <bazhang> hehe
[14:20] <bazhang> no surprise then
[14:27] <bazhang> @mark #ubuntu * woodyjlw (~jeremy@c-69-247-197-193.hsd1.mo.comcast.net) has joined #ubuntu
[14:27] <bazhang> augh
[14:27] <bazhang> @mark #ubuntu woodyjlw (~jeremy@c-69-247-197-193.hsd1.mo.comcast.net) has joined #ubuntu
[14:30] <ikonia> can we make !list kick the person typing it?
[14:30] <LjL> they usually part immediately after anyway :P
[14:31] <ikonia> lets help them
[14:31] <LjL> i think #debian has something that tells them go away, you italian scum or the like
[14:31] <ikonia> I didn't know they knew you personally :)
[14:31] <LjL> :P only italians do that
[14:48] <bazhang> dont appreciate revspecies redirecting everyone immediately
[14:56] <bazhang> why would the bot show uniconv not being in the repos
[14:56] <bazhang> for natty that is
[14:59] <IdleOne> it isn't
[14:59] <IdleOne> it is provided by package yudit
[14:59] <IdleOne> there is no package uniconv
[14:59] <bazhang> and apt-cache search uniconv also does not reveal
[15:03] <bazhang> * woodyjlw  the ubuntu = MS guy is back
[15:03] <ikonia> great
[15:27] <popey>  /92
[15:27] <popey> bah
[15:59] <mneptok> popey: http://www.majorartfoundation.com/artist.php?idxArtist=16&idxWork=1625#1625
[16:01] <Myrtti> lol
[17:02]  * popey hasn't quite figured out why mneptok gave me that url
[17:05] <Myrtti> popey: to establish a link between Slash and the 80'ies you?
[17:05]  * Myrtti hides
[17:05] <popey> ahhhhh
[17:05] <Myrtti> in reality, I have no clue
[17:26] <ikonia> popey: love the 80's suit
[17:28] <oCean> !chromium
[17:28] <oCean> ^it's in the repositories nowadays, right?
[17:28] <LjL> ye
[17:28] <oCean> s
[17:29] <ikonia> is it ?
[17:29] <ikonia> I thought it was still in a ppa
[17:30] <LjL> !info chromium-browser
[17:30] <ikonia> ah, universe,
[17:30] <oCean> apparently even lucid had it
[17:37] <oCean> os2mac: hi, how can we help?
[17:44] <IdleOne> os2mac: are you there?
[17:45] <IdleOne> noisewaterphd: are you there?
[17:46] <IdleOne> noisewaterphd and os2mac Please do not idle in here.
[18:00] <IdleOne> hello mrdeb
[18:00] <IdleOne> How can we help you?
[18:03] <Myrtti> mrdeb: hi
[18:04] <IdleOne> mrdeb: Unless you have business in this channel please do not idle in here
[18:05] <mrdeb> ok
[18:06] <mrdeb> i got disconnected
[18:06] <mrdeb> just wanted to say happy 4th of july
[18:06] <ikonia> right......
[18:06] <IdleOne> Thank you. same to you
[18:06] <IdleOne> Now please part the channel :)
[18:07] <mrdeb> ok, is there secret discussion here
[18:07] <mrdeb> ?
[18:07] <IdleOne> no
[18:07] <mrdeb> ok
[18:07] <popey> !logs
[18:08] <mrdeb> bye
[18:08] <Myrtti> ._______.
[18:18] <ikonia> I'm sick of crappy 3rd party websites telling people how to wreck their systems
[18:20] <genii-around> The ones that usually start off something like: become root with sudo su     ...?
[18:20] <ikonia> that sort of thing
[18:20] <genii-around> Yup, is frustrating
[18:36] <tsimpson> sudo su -c 'sudo -i' :)
[18:36] <ikonia> ha ha
[18:55] <IdleOne> !guidelines > skypc
[19:05] <popey> ikonia: fancy making a name and shame wiki page ? :D
[19:05] <popey> wiki.ubuntu.com/BlogsOnCrack or something? :D
[19:05] <ikonia> you mean of websites that suck and wreck you're ubuntu machine
[19:05] <popey> yes
[19:06] <ikonia> popey: you know, it's not a bad idea as a saftey net
[19:06] <IdleOne> think you might need to pick a beeter name for the page
[19:06] <IdleOne> better
[19:06] <ikonia> maybe a bit more pro than "blogs on crack"
[19:06] <ikonia> :)
[19:06] <ikonia> although I do like that
[19:06] <popey> IdleOne: you appear to have neglected to notice the smiley
[19:07] <ikonia> popey: I'll draft something up, we can work up a name later
[19:07] <ikonia> good idea
[19:07] <popey> cool
[19:07] <popey> It should be limited to sites we have no control over
[19:07] <ikonia> yup
[19:07] <popey> i.e. the wiki / ask ubuntu / forums can all be fixed
[19:07] <ikonia> to be honest, most of the official ones are "good" and if they aren't we should fix them rather than put a site up moaning about them
[19:08] <popey> oh of course
[19:08] <ikonia> I'm not sure the forums can be fixed........;)
[19:08] <popey> heh
[19:08] <ikonia> </forum mod jibe>
[19:08] <knome> ikonia, just rm -rf the forums and it's fixed
[19:08] <ikonia> good idea
[19:11] <knome> UHH
[19:15] <Phreak_> I need an IRCop
[19:15] <ikonia> ok, what's up
[19:15] <IdleOne> for?
[19:16] <knome> IdleOne, each! :)
[19:16] <Phreak_> another IRC server some friends and I set up
[19:17] <ikonia> Phreak_: that's not something we support
[19:17] <Phreak_> and now need some newb help with security
[19:17] <Phreak_> hmm
[19:17] <IdleOne> Phreak_: try #freenode
[19:17] <Phreak_> any friendly IRC servers around that could help?
[19:17] <IdleOne> someone there may be able to help you
[19:17] <Phreak_> maybe sho
[19:17] <ikonia> Phreak_: we deal with the moderation of the Ubuntu channels
[19:17] <Phreak_> shanks
[19:37] <Myrtti> I suggest "warranty void if used" as the blacklist name
[19:37] <ikonia> DCCTU - don't come crying to use
[19:37] <ikonia> us
[22:42] <mneptok> popey: /92
[23:59] <rww> Did #ubuntu get worse while I was gone, or is it just more ridiculous than usual right now?