[01:27] <snadge> bjsnider: are you still here? :p
[01:28] <snadge> i can confirm what you've said about some cards working fine.. and others working less than fine
[01:28] <snadge> (with xvba-video) .. but i have to strongly disagree about much better off using a multicore cpu
[01:28] <snadge> it is far far better to use xvba-video on chipsets which support it properly
[01:29] <snadge> and many low power cpus like atom and bobcat, just dont have the grunt to do it in software
[01:29] <snadge> but work perfectly in windows for that purpose
[01:29] <snadge> catalyst 10.7 should be out soon.. and i strongly strongly recommend ubuntu include that
[01:30] <snadge> rather than whatever the default policy is, which im assuming is to use the 10.6 which is currently in it at the moment
[01:30] <snadge> ubuntu should distribute the latest versions of drivers, with no exception.. at the time of release
[01:30] <snadge> i dont know how many times i've gone to install the "latest" version of ubuntu.. and it doesn't support the graphics card i happen to be using
[01:32] <tsimpson> oneiric is not the "latest" version, it's the development version :)
[01:32] <snadge> .. if that is unacceptable for whatever reason, then at least provide installables for the newer version, which easily replace the defaulted one
[01:32] <snadge> i know.. but by the time oneiric is released.. im presuming it will be distributed with catalyst 10.6
[01:32] <snadge> even if 10.8 is out by then
[01:33] <snadge> sorry my bad.. 11.6 and 11.8
[01:34] <smallfoot-> in some days alpha2 gets released
[01:35] <smallfoot-> im looking forward to it
[01:35] <smallfoot-> i hope its better than alpha1
[01:35] <smallfoot-> cuz 11.10 is looking to be real shitty
[01:35] <smallfoot-> 11.04 was awesome with gnome 2
[01:35] <smallfoot-> but 11.10 has unity, it sucks, and it has unity2d which sucks even more, and it has gnome3 which sucks
[01:35] <bazhang> !enter | smallfoot-
[01:36] <bazhang> smallfoot-, it sucks is hardly a support or bug fixing issue
[01:36] <smallfoot-> i hope kde 4.7 will be better than kde 4.6, its very pretty, but confusing and slow to use
[01:36] <bazhang> smallfoot-, and no cursing here, you know that
[01:36] <smallfoot-> ya, but i didnt cuss
[01:37] <smallfoot-> and gnome3 cant switch themes, i use gnome2 with dust, i like it
[01:37] <bazhang> smallfoot-, this is not the complaints channel, you know that as well.
[01:37] <smallfoot-> hmm
[01:37] <smallfoot-> but there is no complaints channel! :(
 cuz 11.10 is looking to be real shitty
[01:38] <smallfoot-> oh is that cursing
[01:38] <smallfoot-> hmm
[01:38] <bazhang> smallfoot-, correct. this is a bug fixing channel for those willing to run unstable development software
[01:38] <smallfoot-> well, i really love 11.04 with gnome2, its perfect except plymouth is broken
[01:38] <smallfoot-> but i dont like unity or gnome3 or kde, or windows or mac, so i dont know what to do
[01:38] <bazhang> smallfoot-, #ubuntu-offtopic is for chat. not here here nor #ubuntu is the place for this
[01:39] <smallfoot-> i tried fedora, but it uses gnome3 and is very bad,  i tried kubuntu, its pretty but not very friendly, its cluttered and bloated and confusing
[01:39] <bazhang> ...
[01:39] <smallfoot-> so im stuck with 11.04 forever
[01:40] <bazhang> smallfoot-, #ubuntu-offtopic Please
[01:40] <smallfoot-> ok
[01:41] <snadge> yeah less complaints .. more helpful suggestions
[01:41] <snadge> and no.. suggesting that it come with gnome2 instead, is probably going to fall on deaf ears
[01:42] <snadge> ubuntu likes to move forwards, even if that causes considerable pain and regressions.. because its the "right thing to do" .. all the developers have moved on, the users are supposed to too
[01:42] <Daekdroom> What about XFCE?
[01:42] <snadge> so rather than whinge that things dont work properly.. fix it.. or as suggested, take the convo to #ubuntu-offtopic ;)
[01:44] <snadge> i must admit im eager to chat with bjsnider, about the negotiations with amd to distribute xvba-video
[01:44] <Daekdroom> If anything, I believe you can still install the classic gnome interface through apt-get, despite it no longer being shipped.
[01:45] <snadge> im also curious about compiz classic mode.. it doesn't appear to exist in 11.10
[01:45] <snadge> is that something thats installable as well?
[01:45] <Daekdroom> compiz classic gnome? Running gnome-panel and compiz?
[01:45] <snadge> i only have unity and unity2d options on my login
[01:45] <snadge> yeah
[01:46] <Daekdroom> Well, you can install the classic gnome session packages, but I'm not sure if it's compatible with compiz
[01:46] <snadge> it should be, thats how it worked with the older gnome
[01:46] <snadge> metacity for 2d, compiz for 3d
[01:47] <Daekdroom> gnome-session-fallback
[01:47] <snadge> dont tell me the new gnome comes with its own window manager?
[01:47] <snadge> *facepalm* :p
[01:48] <Daekdroom> Sort of.
[01:48] <Daekdroom> Well, actually, it does.
[01:49] <Daekdroom> It's called Mutter.
[01:49] <Daekdroom> but the fallback session uses metacity regardless
[01:49] <snadge> ok thats not so bad.. the question becomes whether mutter sucks, and if it does, can it be replaced with compiz
[01:50] <snadge> some people are resistant to change.. and may prefer having newer versions of system libraries, kernel etc.. but with the "classic" interface
[01:50] <Daekdroom> I don't think you can run GNOME Shell without Mutter, but Unity still runs Compiz .
[01:51] <snadge> ok so that basically means.. the classic interface is no longer supported, as of 11.10
[01:51] <Daekdroom> It is.
[01:51] <snadge> due to the move to gnome 3
[01:51] <Daekdroom> Metacity is still packaged.
[01:51] <charlie-tca> I would suggest trying Xubuntu! It uses Xfce instead of unity or Gnome or KDE
[01:51] <snadge> so unless gnome 3 has a "work like gnome 2" option.. you're either forced to use unity, or gnome 3.. or kde
[01:52] <charlie-tca> I would suggest trying Xubuntu! It uses Xfce instead of unity or Gnome or KDE
[01:52] <snadge> or no composited desktop.. metacity isn't classic desktop.. its retro classic desktop
[01:52] <snadge> or the dark ages
[01:52] <Daekdroom> as a matter of fact, unity-2d uses metacity.
[01:52] <Daekdroom> (or for some reason lists it as a dependency)
[01:52] <snadge> what i mean by classic is.. "gnome 2 + compiz"
[01:53] <Daekdroom> Oh. I could test that.
[01:53] <snadge> since thats been the way for the last.. 5 releases or so at least
[01:53] <snadge> and to suddenly not have that option.. is a bit of a shock to those who have been used to it for a few years
[01:53] <tsimpson> compiz only existed because matacity didn't "do" 3D
[01:54] <snadge> correct.. but thats straying from the point which is its what people are used to
[01:54] <snadge> if metacity did 3d.. and was used for the past few years.. then people would be used to that
[01:54] <Daekdroom> Be right back.
[01:54] <tsimpson> being used to something is not a valid reason to stick to it
[01:54] <snadge> i happen to like compiz personally.. and see no valid reason to change from it yet
[01:55] <snadge> unity doesn't do it for me in all situations.. and i personally havn't tried gnome 3.. but i might
[01:55] <snadge> being forced to change to something else.. isn't a valid reason to change either ;)
[01:55] <tsimpson> try it, then you can comment on how it's evil etc with some legitimacy ;)
[01:56] <snadge> you should present people with the option to change.. and if they change to it because its better.. then so mote it be
[01:56] <Daekdroom> It looks a bit ugly.
[01:56] <tsimpson> the developers no longer supporting gnome2 is a valid reason to 1) move to gnome3/other, or 2) fork it and maintain it yourself
[01:56] <Daekdroom> and doesn't support the indicators, I think
[01:57] <snadge> neither does unity
[01:57] <snadge> people who create regressions when making new versions of things.. should be stabbed repeatedly
[01:57] <tsimpson> yeah, because they do it intentionally...
[01:57] <snadge> new versions are supposed to be better and have improvements
[01:57] <Daekdroom> Gnome-panel is no longer customizable as well.
[01:58] <snadge> tsimpson: indicators not working.. is something thats obvious and must have been intentional
[01:58] <snadge> its not a bug.. the functionality just doesn't exist.. and yet, they release anyway
[01:58] <snadge> and expect people to upgrade to it.. its sad that free software works this way
[01:58] <Daekdroom> What do you mean?
[01:58] <snadge> microsoft or apple would never do that
[01:59] <tsimpson> yeah, apple wouldn't do something as silly as, um... I don't know... break the clock app...
[01:59] <snadge> cpu usage, network usage in the panel
[01:59] <Daekdroom> Oh. You're mixing up indicators with applets, I think.
[01:59] <snadge> im assuming thats whats meant by indicators.. the little panel apps
[01:59] <snadge> some of which are quite useful
[02:00] <Daekdroom> The new gnome panel doesn't support either, anyway. Indicators are slightly broken and applets are gone. It tries to mimetize the Gnome Shell topbar.
[02:00] <snadge> unity integrated some of that functionality into the unity panel.. but afaik, its not customisable
[02:00] <snadge> eg.. you cant add a cpu usage graph.. or frequency scaling app etc
[02:05] <snadge> so theres just going ot be no applets? eg.. cpu scaler etc
[02:06] <snadge> i only basically use weather, system monitor and frequency scaler
[02:07] <snadge> so if theres dock equivalents of those things.. i dont care
[09:16] <kjetilkWork> DebianImportFreeze is in effect now, right?
[09:26] <geser> yes
[09:50] <kjetilkWork> ok, good
[11:06] <BluesKaj> Howdy
[11:12] <dupondje> [12506.199800] ata1.00: exception Emask 0x50 SAct 0xf SErr 0x480900 action 0x6 frozen
[11:12] <dupondje> [12506.199809] ata1.00: irq_stat 0x08000000, interface fatal error
[11:12] <dupondje> [12506.199816] ata1: SError: { UnrecovData HostInt 10B8B Handshk }
[11:12] <dupondje> [12506.199823] ata1.00: failed command: WRITE FPDMA QUEUED
[11:12] <dupondje> [12506.199834] ata1.00: cmd 61/00:00:00:c4:00/04:00:2e:00:00/40 tag 0 ncq 524288 out
[11:12] <dupondje> [12506.199837]          res 40/00:00:00:c4:00/00:00:2e:00:00/40 Emask 0x50 (ATA bus error)
[11:12] <dupondje> [12506.199843] ata1.00: status: { DRDY }
[11:12] <dupondje> µ
[11:12] <dupondje> this looks like a dying disk ? :) or
[11:13] <BigWhale> dupondje, I'd start making backups if I were you... :>
[11:13] <BigWhale> just in case
[11:15] <dupondje> true :D
[11:27] <dupondje> SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
[11:27] <dupondje> ah well
[11:28] <penguin42> i.e. 'don't panic - yet'
[11:29] <dupondje> its like a 2 month old laptop
[11:29] <dupondje> damn crap :)
[11:29] <penguin42> what symptoms made you run smart ?
[11:30] <dupondje> the message in dmesg :)
[11:30] <penguin42> sorry, I joined too late
[11:32] <dupondje> http://pastebin.com/qwYvDRyT
[11:32] <dupondje> something like this
[11:36] <penguin42> hmm that's not pretty
[11:36] <penguin42> I think that's saying it's the interface that's erroring not the drive
[11:37] <dupondje> yea seems so
[11:37] <penguin42> dupondje: In smartctl -a does anything show up in the SMART Error Log ?
[11:38] <dupondje> but the fact that somebody else has same pastebin makes me think its a driver issue :)
[11:38] <penguin42> hmm yes that's possible
[11:38] <penguin42> do you just get the one during startup or does it throw it randomly?
[11:38] <dupondje> No Errors Logged
[11:39] <dupondje> no errors :)
[11:39] <dupondje> randomly
[11:39]  * penguin42 would see if replacing the SATA cable helped
[11:41] <dupondje> not going to open my laptop :D
[11:41] <dupondje> or maby i'll do this afternoon :d
[11:42] <penguin42> ah yeh more of a pain on a laptop
[12:15] <ior3k> I find that I often "lose" either the keyboard or the mouse now
[12:15] <ior3k> the just stop working
[12:16] <ior3k> this happens mostly to the keyboard, but sometimes (like now) it happens to the mouse
[12:16] <ior3k> is anyone else experiencing this?
[12:17] <lucidfox> Why do Wine applications launched from Unity ignore winecfg settings?
[13:18] <astraljava> Hey guys, who would know about cdimages? Ubuntu Studio hasn't gotten new ones in two days.
[13:20] <yofel> astraljava: yesterdays builds failed http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ubuntustudio/oneiric/daily-20110705.log
[13:21] <astraljava> yofel: Okay, thanks! That's too bad, because there were problems with libc6 on 20110704.
[14:47] <Daekdroom> Sad. My media keys on the keyboard aren't working anymore.
[14:49] <Daekdroom> If I had to guess, I'd say Clementine is no longer able to use gnome keybindings
[15:23] <CardinalFang> Nice!  Thunderbird used messaging menu now.  Just, I don't really want it to notice everything.  :(  ...  Hrm.
[16:25] <kim0|oneiric> Hi folks .. I just booted a live USB stick with oneiric. On my laptop, my USB keyboard + mouse are not working
[16:25] <penguin42> kim0|oneiric: Have you tried them in a different port? It's possible that it's not picking up something like one of the controllers
[16:25] <kim0|oneiric> one moment
[16:42] <kim0|oneiric> penguin42: I have 3 ports in that laptop .. one with the usb stick I'm booting from (this one works) the two others dont seem to work with the kb+mouse
[16:42] <penguin42> :-(
[16:42] <kim0|oneiric> that is scary :)
[16:42] <penguin42> kim0|oneiric: Given it's a laptop can you use the built in keyboard/mouse to see what's going on?
[16:42] <kim0|oneiric> yes I am using that now
[16:42] <kim0|oneiric> what commands do I run
[16:43] <penguin42> probably a dmesg would be worth it; you want to see if it actually sees the USB devices at all
[16:43] <kim0|oneiric> getting notifications as I plug in the devices
[16:43] <kim0|oneiric> in /var/log/syslog
[16:45] <penguin42> want to post the dmesg ?
[16:45] <kim0|oneiric> sure
[16:48] <kim0|oneiric> penguin42: http://paste.ubuntu.com/638959/
[16:48]  * kim0|oneiric afk for a few mins .. leave me msgs
[16:52] <penguin42> kim0|oneiric: Hmm dunno - it's good that it identifies it as a HID device
[16:56] <kim0|oneiric> penguin42: so where do I go from here ? file a bug or something ?
[16:56] <penguin42> kim0|oneiric: Yep file a bug
[16:57] <penguin42> kim0|oneiric: It might be worth seeing if the keyboard works in the text console from ctrl-alt-f1 (get back with ctrl-alt-f8 or f7)
[16:57] <penguin42> kim0|oneiric: If it doesn't work in either I'd file it against linux, if it only doesn't work in X I'd file it against xserver-xorg
[16:59] <kim0|oneiric> penguin42: nice it works in console
[16:59] <kim0|oneiric> xserver-xorg then
[21:00] <lookin4> i had windows xp on my one of my drives(another partition still ntfs) I installed ubuntu 10.10 on the windows xp partition by formatting it, still i get the grub with windows xp as one option.. how to fix this? ne1 help!!
[21:00] <Polarina> I just upgraded to 11.10 and when I rename a file in nautilus, and hit backspace, it crashes. Is this a known problem?
[21:01] <lookin4> @polarina.. wonder what these people r busy with??
[21:03] <BUGabundo> and here comes Firefox 8.0 :O
[21:03] <penguin42> Polarina: There was talk earlier of some nautilus known bugs being in the works; not sure of the detail
[21:04] <Polarina> Ok, nice. :)
[21:04] <trism> Polarina: I don't see any bugs for it on launchpad, may want to submit one, because I seem to be able to reproduce it here
[21:04] <BUGabundo> evening
[21:21] <trism> Polarina: actually sorry, just found it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glib2.0/+bug/805783
[21:27] <BUGabundo> fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
[21:27] <BUGabundo> more OOM :(
[21:51] <Daekdroom> Is Oneiric going to ship LibreOffice 3.4?
[21:56] <BUGabundo> !info libreoffice
[22:16]  * penguin42 looks at that list and wonders which was missing to make it an only-available-for
[22:21] <Daekdroom> penguin42, I didn't even know most of those existed in ubuntu
[22:22] <penguin42> Daekdroom: Even for debian what's missing?
[22:23] <Daekdroom> penguin42, some coding for ubottu to not display "only" every time, I suppose.
[22:23] <mrmcq2u> Hey, was wondering whether there was a known issue with gnome-shell on oneric atm.
[22:50] <trism> mrmcq2u: there is at least one if you installed recently, applications.menu was renamed to gnome-applications.menu in the gnome-menus package, so if you got to Activities then click Applications, gnome-shell will crash (lp: 801912)
[22:51] <trism> mrmcq2u: can work around it by: mkdir -p ~/.config/menus; cp /etc/xdg/menus/gnome-applications.menu ~/.config/menus/applications.menus
[23:00] <alex_mayorga> how borked is this? wondering if I should jump into oneiric today or wait fro alpha 2 tomorrow
[23:02] <alex_mayorga> anyone that has dist-upgraded today?
[23:04] <BUGabundo> me
[23:04] <alex_mayorga> BUGabundo: did it make you cry?
[23:05] <BUGabundo> I have a bunch of packages on HOLD
[23:05] <BUGabundo> :)
[23:06] <charlie-tca> It would be best if no one upgrades Xubuntu. It seems pretty much broken.
[23:06] <BUGabundo> 28 packages upgraded, 5 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[23:07] <alex_mayorga> I have plain vanilla ubuntu, but I've been jumping in from alpha to alpha for about 2 years or so
[23:07] <BUGabundo> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[23:07] <BUGabundo> and then 5 lines of apps
[23:07] <alex_mayorga> should I re-install stable and then go to alpha or should I be OK?
[23:08] <alex_mayorga> am I trying my luck too hard :)
[23:08] <BUGabundo> already reinstaled 11.10 twice
[23:08] <BUGabundo> don't recall doing that on any other cycle
[23:08] <alex_mayorga> BUGabundo: any particular reason?
[23:11] <charlie-tca> This should be a "really" good release then. It has plenty of breakage already!
[23:11] <alex_mayorga> 30 packages ditched and 6 no longer needed, seems reasonable
[23:12] <alex_mayorga> let's see how long does my "2MB/s" connection takes :)
[23:12]  * penguin42 would like his compiz to be unbroken - I guess I'm going to have to find that seg myself
[23:13] <alex_mayorga> 1389 files coming from the "interwebs
[23:18] <BUGabundo> penguin42: I have composite
[23:19] <BUGabundo> I'm amazed I have composite
[23:19] <BUGabundo> it was broken for months
[23:19] <BUGabundo> alex_mayorga: it was good meeting you. see you next cicle :)
[23:20] <penguin42> BUGabundo: unity-panel-services segs for me in datetime stuff
[23:20] <alex_mayorga> BUGabundo: I'll hang around until release ;)
[23:20] <alex_mayorga> got notified that newer kernel might solve my nvidia freezes with nouveau so I'm jumping in
[23:20] <BUGabundo> I can't even boot up without freezy
[23:21] <BUGabundo> at least now gets up to X
[23:21] <BUGabundo> but then its all black
[23:23] <alex_mayorga> BUGabundo: not making me more confident :)
[23:23] <alex_mayorga> BUGabundo: have you tried turning off all acceleration?
[23:23] <BUGabundo> its *broken* to me
[23:24] <BUGabundo> but no one else complaing that much
[23:24] <BUGabundo> alex_mayorga: no
[23:24] <alex_mayorga> BUGabundo: got nvidia card? 11.04 wouldn't work at all with any kind of acceleration
[23:26] <BUGabundo> I had to change from nouveau to nvidia
[23:26] <BUGabundo> nouveua wasn't recognising my card or my screen
[23:27] <alex_mayorga> BUGabundo: vendor system or your own rig?
[23:30] <BUGabundo> OEM
[23:33] <alex_mayorga> BUGabundo: model, make?
[23:35] <alex_mayorga> BUGabundo: better yet, the bug afflicting you?
[23:35] <BUGabundo> no  idea
[23:35] <BUGabundo> can't see much in the logs
[23:36] <BUGabundo> nothing to report
[23:36] <BUGabundo> except: won't boot properly
[23:36] <BUGabundo> hangs up after init screats
[23:37] <alex_mayorga> I'd say you should at least file a "doesn't boot" bug with your system details, just "for the record"
[23:37] <alex_mayorga> might save trouble to a fellow "ubuntero" with the same hardware at least ;)
[23:59] <alex_mayorga> gdm or lightgdm?