AlanBellkim0: second link on you blog goes to jono's blog rather than the list of formulae06:54
dholbachgood morning06:58
kim0AlanBell: thanks .. attacking08:02
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
kim0morning o/12:42
jcastroczajkowski: around?13:41
jcastrodholbach: did you take pics when we were at the meet and greet?13:51
dholbachjcastro, no14:05
jcastrokim0: found one!14:06
kim0nice :)14:06
jcastrohow's that?14:13
nigelbI traveled over 1200 km in the past 3 days and its been raining everywhere I've been :/14:14
dholbachjcastro, you need to use the new theme / new WP or you look boring :-P14:46
nigelb<3 the title of the blog14:46
dholbachhey jono14:52
jonohey dholbach14:52
kim0jcastro: rock n roll :)14:54
AlanBellso why is that better than "sudo apt-get install wordpress"14:54
dholbachkim0, how's the bbb formula coming on? :)14:54
jcastroAlanBell: I don't need to buy a server!14:54
AlanBellwell you do, from the video I saw you need three14:54
kim0AlanBell: the good part is that you need three :)14:55
jcastroAlanBell: It's like sudo apt-ec2 install wordpress14:55
kim0can scale and uses best practices14:55
AlanBellone to control it one to run mysql, one to run php14:55
james_wapt-get install wordpress doesn't install a db14:55
jcastrokim0: by default are these micro instances?14:55
kim0james_w: ensemble one does14:55
kim0jcastro: no small14:55
james_wkim0, I know, that's why it's good :-)14:55
kim0james_w: that was the question :)14:56
james_wright, but at the most basic level it has nothing to do with ec2, scaling, etc.14:56
AlanBellI think I understand what it does, I just don't get why I would want to pay by the second for three servers rather than one14:56
kim0It's like a unix pipe, across machines14:56
james_wapt-get install wordpress installs the wordpress code, you still have to install a db, point wordpress at the db and then configure wordpress14:57
kim0that's how awesome it is :)14:57
james_wplus it has great things like ec2 integration, scaling etc.14:57
jcastroAlanBell: pretend you'll be able to do it bare metal14:57
james_wAlanBell, my understanding is that it will be able to run on one server soon14:57
jcastrowhich it will14:57
jcastrobut for now, this gets people fired up on EC2 right away14:57
jcastro"my school needs to try moodle", blam, 5 minutes.14:57
jcastrono messing with actually installing it, etc.14:58
nigelbAlanBell: well, when I talked to jamespaige, I got the feeling that wordpress is not per se the example of things that ensemble is written for. Its used for the create, use, and throw type servers14:58
nigelbso if there was a need to scale your db to 10 slaves because of load and then scale back down, that's when you'd use ensemble14:58
jcastroAlanBell: for example14:58
jcastroif we had an etherpad formula ...14:58
jcastrowe could have just run it14:59
jcastroand be done14:59
mhall119nigelb: it could also be used for a specific wordpress site14:59
nigelbmhall119: Of course it could, but I'm trying to say where ensemble's power is14:59
jcastroI see the AWS console still makes me want to kill myself14:59
nigelbEnsembles solves a different problem from say, what puppet tries to solve14:59
nigelbjcastro: Happens to me every day.15:00
jcastrokim0: ok now ensemble shutdown makes it all go away?15:00
kim0jcastro: yeah it should15:00
kim0don't forget the y15:00
jcastrokim0: ok, next up I'll want to do persistance15:00
jcastroI think I have S3 and all that stuff15:00
jonojcastro, kim0, dholbach about ready?15:00
jcastrobut by default in amazon shutting things off loses all your data right?15:00
dholbachjono, yep15:00
jcastrojono: all set.15:00
kim0jcastro: yeah .. you can't save the data today15:00
nigelbjcastro: shutdown != terminate until you set it that way15:00
mhall119nigelb: for example, I'd like to make a loco-directory and summit ensemble formula, so anyone who wants to throw up a testing instance can do it easily15:00
nigelbmhall119: I like that15:01
dholbachmhall119, do we need to package it first? :)15:01
nigelbmhall119: Though, personally, I'd rather use vagrant, have you used it?15:01
mhall119dholbach: no, we can script in bzr commands15:01
mhall119nigelb: nope15:01
dholbachah ok15:01
nigelbIt spins up custom virtualbox images which can be controlled wiht chef15:01
jcastrodon't package it15:01
jcastrojust run it out of bzr!15:01
kim0dholbach: mhall119 no need to package yeah15:02
jcastroso we can spin up, test, shutdown, rinse, repeate15:02
nigelbIts pretty awesome when you have complex things like Hbase, Mahout, etc15:02
mhall119dholbach: I can make a loco-directory .deb, but I'm told that IS prefers deploying from branches15:02
* dholbach nods15:02
dholbachI have no idea when this channel went from #ubuntu-community-team to #ubuntu-server-hippies :-P15:02
nigelbthat way we can do bzr status and find files that were never checked in15:02
mhall119nigelb: the nice thing about ensemble for summit/loco-directory is that, with your help, we could also spin up an instance of launchpad15:02
nigelbmhall119: Ah, I talked to Lp team about that15:03
jcastrodholbach: shouldn't you be writing a report? :p15:03
dholbachbut to each their quarter of an hour :-P15:03
dholbachjcastro, tomorrow15:03
mhall119dholbach: we've been trying to keep it in #ubuntu-website15:03
nigelbthey siad they could be problems, like the fact that publically accessible isntances cannot use the images15:03
dholbachjcastro, I'm working on your graphs15:03
dholbachjcastro, sorry, just kidding :-P15:03
mhall119nigelb: technical or legal reasons?15:03
dholbachmhall119, don't worry - I was kidding15:03
nigelbmhall119: legal mostly15:03
dholbachI like learning about this stuff15:03
mhall119nigelb: then it should be okay if we're just using it for testing15:04
nigelbmhall119: Talk to lifeless, he'll give emore details.15:04
jcastrokim0: terminated is what I want right?15:04
jcastrothat means not being charged money?15:04
nigelbmhall119: He's probably sleeping now btw15:05
kim0jcastro: ensemble shutdown ? then yeah15:05
kim0jcastro: and check the ec2 web UI has all boxes terminating15:05
kim0then u're good15:05
mhall119jcastro: I think you can just stop the instance, and not be charged15:05
mhall119since you're only charged for CPU time15:05
kim0you'd still be charged for storage15:05
mhall119oh, ok15:06
jcastrojono: I got dropped15:22
jonojcastro, you back online?15:22
jcastroyou need to dial me back in15:23
jonojcastro, I just tried, it dropped15:23
jonojcastro, you are not on skype15:23
jcastrook restarted15:23
jcastrotry now15:23
kim0jcastro: so is oneiric working well for ya ? if so I'll probably be upgrading15:36
jcastroit's running well on 2 of my machines now15:36
jcastroduring the sprint it sucked for me15:36
jcastrobut now it's all gelling15:36
kim0nice .. ok then15:36
jcastronice answer!15:42
jcastroI've added to it15:42
jcastroany idea how to know what arguments it accepts?15:42
jcastrolike, how would I do "High-Memory Double Extra Large Instance"15:43
jcastrodefault-instance-type: "High-Memory Double Extra Large Instance" can't be right, heh15:43
jcastroor does it accept API name?15:45
jcastrolike m2.4xlarge15:45
jcastrothat would make more sense15:45
kim0jcastro: guess m2.4xlarge .. but I never really tested that :)15:48
kim0|oneiriclive booting oneiric, and my usb keyboard/mouse are dead16:23
dholbachalright my friends - I call it a day - see you all tomorrow!16:26
jcastroAlanBell: ok so, I've thought of something to make the example better for you16:28
jcastrofor ensemble16:28
jcastrosomething I would be interested in would be a set of conference formulas16:28
jcastroso say, etherpad, mediawiki, summit, openfire (for chat), and say .... drupal.16:29
=== salgado is now known as salgado-doctor
jcastroright now you'd have to set all those up, etc.16:29
jcastrobut if we had a set of formulas that set them all up, then you could just fire up your conference's "IT support in the cloud"16:30
jcastroinstead of "ok, who has a spare linode or knows someone with a colo?"16:30
jcastrolunch bbl16:31
nigelbI like that example better16:31
AlanBellthat is getting there a bit16:44
AlanBellI just don't get the "fire up an empty mediawiki in a three tier configuration on 9 servers" use case16:45
AlanBellI think the examples need to be more real or you get this problem: http://xkcd.com/619/16:54
mhall119ensemble doesn't support smooth full-screen flash video decoding though16:55
mhall119I'm not sure there's a joe-sixpack example for ensemble16:56
mhall119or cloud computing itself, for that matter16:57
AlanBellso if I do an ensemble deployment of mediawiki, summit, openfire etc. for a conference, would I get single signon between the services?16:57
mhall119if you fired up an instance of SSO16:57
mhall119or used an external one16:57
AlanBellso does it configure that to all work together?16:58
mhall119if your formulas are written to do that, yes16:58
mhall119what happens is ensemble runs the SSO startup, which tells SSO that it's offering OpenID and a specific URL16:58
mhall119then Summit asks ensemble where it can find an OpenID provider, and ensemble gives it the SSO url16:59
mhall119likewise ensemble can fire up etherpad, and then when summit asks for an etherpad host, it'll get your new instance16:59
mhall119the typical use-case is having a DB running on a separate server, and needing that info passed to your webapp17:00
mhall119but you can do it for just about any service dependency17:01
AlanBellcan you run multiple services on one server?17:01
AlanBellso you say, I want a database back end, plus a blog and a content management system and a wiki, all on one box17:02
mhall119in that case, you'd have one formula I think17:02
mhall119but then you're not getting any advantage from using ensemble, really17:03
AlanBelland then you outgrow it and want to move the blog to a dedicated insance17:03
AlanBelland then your single formula breaks17:03
mhall119or tell ensemble to fire up another instance of wordpress and do load balancing between them17:03
mhall119like I said, ensemble is useful when running multiple instances that have to communicate with eachother17:04
mhall119if you want everything on one server, you don't get much advantage17:04
AlanBellyes, I am not sure how you grow into that17:04
mhall119ah, I see17:04
AlanBellI can't see anyone starting with a two server empty wordpress blog17:05
mhall119yeah, there's a bit of a gap between the "small site, everything on one box" and the "medium site, separate services on seperate boxes"17:05
mhall119AlanBell: I guess it depends on the blog17:05
mhall119it's not for personal "all about my life" blogs, for sure17:06
AlanBellok, a major celebrity or media service might want more from the start17:06
mhall119but if you're starting up an OMG!Ubuntu!, you'd probably want to start out with separate webserver and db server boxes17:06
AlanBellpopey: have they?17:07
mhall119probably not, since they seem to have so much downtime17:07
mhall119ensemble is made to let you wire up instances automatically17:07
mhall119so you can fire up a new Apache instance and it automatically gets added to your wordpress cluster17:08
AlanBellyeah, I guess I am not quite understanding who needs to do that on a sufficiently regular basis to get the time saving17:11
AlanBellgetting services to magically do SSO is a much more exciting proposition than getting them to use more instances for me17:11
mhall119AlanBell: suppose you have a moderately sized blog, like OMG!Ubuntu!17:24
mhall119then you post something awesome, and you get on Slashdot, Fark and CNN.com17:24
mhall119suddently the demand for your site increases 1000x17:24
* AlanBell has been slashdotted several times, with a tiny VPS17:24
mhall119you're single instance can't support the traffic, firing up and conofiguring a new one will take hours17:25
AlanBellturn on supercache, stare in astonishment at the figures17:25
paultagaye, I had mine documented, bodhi and I worked on my blog17:25
mhall119if you had ensemble, with one command you can spin up 1, 2, 10 or 100 new instances and have them start load balancing17:25
paultagwent from a few requests a second to over 200017:25
mhall119then, when you're off slashdot's homepage, you start shutting them down17:25
paultagmhall119: some good ole' fashond optimizing goes a lot farther :)17:25
paultagno need to take a rocket launcher to it, when it could have been done with a hammer17:26
AlanBellyeah, a single machine can easily handle a slashdotting17:26
paultagmhall119: http://blog.bodhizazen.net/linux/optimize-wordpress-for-speed/ ← my results17:26
paultagBefore hacking: Requests per second: 13.21 [#/sec] (mean)17:27
paultagAfter hacking: Requests per second: 1942.31 [#/sec] (mean)17:27
AlanBellinteresting results paultag17:27
AlanBellI just did wp-supercache and it dramatically fixed it17:28
paultagAlanBell: oh, totally. I could see that rocking17:28
AlanBelldidn't do any of the other stuff, I guess you didn't see so much benefit as you had already fixed the problems it fixes (db queries)17:28
paultagAlanBell: :)17:29
AlanBellit is odd when it happens though!17:30
AlanBellfirst time I was having my breakfast and wondering why thunderbird wouldn't connect to my mail server17:30
paultagAlanBell: when the box gets run down? Hell yeah! I got DDoS'd by some punk on freenode who was harrasing me. I did this and fixed up iptables and it *rocked*17:30
AlanBellhad a look at slashdot whilst wondering what might be up with my email17:31
paultagAlanBell: hahahahaha, mine started lagging my irc shell out17:31
paultagthat's bloody brilliant17:31
AlanBellwonder if I can find the article :)17:31
paultagAlanBell: site:slashdot.org "url" :)17:31
mhall119paultag: nice17:32
mhall119however, the middle of a slashdotting isn't the righ time to start optimizing17:32
mhall119at least, not if you have the ability to quickly fire up more load-balancing17:33
mhall119one of the British talent shows does this17:33
mhall119they have online voting, and dynamically scale up the number of servers during the voting period to satisfy demand17:33
mhall119not sure if they use ensemble for that or not, but that's the demographic17:34
mhall119I am gonna take some of your Wp optimizations though, just getting on OMG!Ubuntu! caused a noticable slowdown in my T1.micro17:35
mhall119I also installed the S3 media plugin, so images get served from an s3 bucket instead of apache17:36
AlanBellhttp://politics.slashdot.org/story/07/12/04/0310208/OOXMLs-662-Resolutions that one we got a bit caught out17:38
paultagAlanBell: win :)17:39
AlanBell128MB ram VPS is a little bit tight for a slashdotting, I think we went up to 512 at that point17:40
paultagI hate apache, it uses up so much RAM on a normal basis17:41
paultagI think it's time to write a webserver, and a language that can be compiled into bytecode17:41
paultagI bet I could have it operate well in 32 MB RAM, and under 64 max17:42
paultaggiven no stupid memory leaks by the author of the webapp17:42
paultagugh, then again the HTTP spec is stupid huge, it would be a lot of work17:43
AlanBell"thanks to Bytemark for sorting it out, we now have 450MB of RAM, up from 128 this morning. It is serving up over three thousand hits per hour, about one hit per second on average, and they are complicated pages. I think I will probably install wp-cache or something, but right now it is working and I don't want to touch it!"17:58
AlanBellso that was just with enough ram, it went really fast when I installed the cache17:59
=== salgado-doctor is now known as salgado
=== daker is now known as daker_
nigelbjcastro: heh, just heard someone ask how to delete a wiki page, you should write a post on how to delete too!18:26
jcastroyou need to know how to do a tag on help.u.c18:27
jcastrothey just don't let people delete the page18:27
jcastrowhich is kind of a bummer but might as well have a team checking out deletions18:27
nigelbyeah, that makes sense18:27
nigelbthis was wiki.u.o though, and I said the delete actually is on the options menu18:27
jcastrounless the page is ACLed you should be able to delete on wiki.u.c18:30
jcastroif you can't then someone has made the page like that on purpose18:30
james_wAlanBell, mhall119: you won't need a single formula for blog + db on one machine, you'll be able to have them running on one machine using the existing formulas soon.18:31
james_wit's just the software isn't perfect yet...what a surprise :-)18:31
AlanBellthat would make it a much more compelling story18:41
jcastrokim0: ugh crap I close that irc window with yout docs on how to contribute to ensemble docs18:54
jcastrocan you pastebin that conversation we had?18:54
jcastro(the part with the bzr and whatnot)18:54
kim0jcastro: ah yeah18:57
jcastrofirst one!19:06
* kim0 hugs jcastro 19:11
kim0jcastro: in the docs folder, you can 'make html' to check the result19:11
jcastroyeah, I am unsure about changing the examples19:13
jcastrosince all the docs are written from the point of view that you're in the source tree19:13
jcastromaybe for 11.10 when it's more ready to be used out of the distro19:13
jcastroinstead of like, a PPA, heh19:13
jcastrokim0: also, sphinx is badass19:14
kim0Yeah rox hard19:15
popey18:06:50 < mhall119> but if you're starting up an OMG!Ubuntu!, you'd probably want to start out with separate webserver and db server boxes19:22
popey18:07:02 < AlanBell> popey: have they?19:22
mhall11913:08 < mhall119> probably not, since they seem to have so much downtime19:40
nhandlerI'm looking to get a printer for college. I'm thinking of going for a cheap laserjet (tired of wasting a fortune on ink). I was wondering if people had any recommendations19:46
AlanBelldo you need to be able to carry it?19:52
AlanBelland do you want colour?19:52
jcastronhandler: yes19:53
jcastronhandler: you want any used laserjet 40x019:53
jcastro4000 series, they're cube shaped, you can get them used for cheap, and they're workhorses19:54
AlanBellgenerally getting a new laser is about the same price as refilling a used one19:54
macobut you only have to do it once every few years unlike the inkjets19:55
AlanBellI got a colour laser because I didn't use the inkjet enough so it kept drying out and wasting ink cartridges19:56
macothat can happen?19:56
macomy inkjet finally kicked the bucket after 5 years of service. i broke it trying to clear a paper jam19:57
nhandlerAlanBell: I'd like it to be able to fit on a desk, color is not necessary20:01
JanCnhandler: I'm quite happy with my cheap Samsung b/w laser printer (using the open source 'splix' driver)21:14
pleia2I have a cheap brother b/w laser (when I need color I spend $.35/sheet at the print shop down the street)21:15
JanCit certainly beats having to throw away expensive, 50% (or less) used dried out inkjet cartridges...21:18
nhandlerJanC, pleia2: Both of those worked well with linux? I had an old brother inkjet that flat out refused to work. I'd ideally like to have near plug-and-play support21:20
pleia2nhandler: brother laserjets have official support for linux these days21:21
pleia2I've had good luck with HP too21:21
JanCnhandler: like I said, there is a good open source driver for Samsung printers (certainly for b/w, I never tested with their colour lasers)21:22
JanCpleia2: official support is closed source though? (for both Samsung & Brother AFAIK, but for Samsung there is an open source driver too, which works well)21:23
pleia2JanC: I don't know, I just plugged it in and it worked :)21:24
JanCwell, the drivers are in multiverse...21:24
JanCunless some brother printers have open source drivers included with CUPS too21:25
=== salgado is now known as salgado-afk

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